Politics

[MR2 Fan]

yes, there's literally about 10 people right now who I think would be as bad or worse than Trump in office...practically ANYONE else would be an improvement.

Just the number of corrupt people who have worked with Trump and realized just how stupid/insane he is and are turning against him because he's gone too far...there's a lot of them.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, trumps needs to be gone one way or another, but DNC really isn’t helping...

Having another New Yorker billionaire in the WH probably lead our nation down another wrong path...

Please God, if not Andrew, at least let it be Bernie... or just anybody else besides billionaires!!!!

[neanderthal]

Bernie's not first in Iowa and won't be a factor in S Carolina. There is no path forward that sees him winning.

And dudes been campaigning for four years!

[Yw-slayer]

There have been various bombs planted on public transport and in a hospital in HK.

Of course, the has been next to no reporting of this by international media.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wtf?!? Why?

[FaultyMario]

There have been various bombs planted on public transport and in a hospital in HK.

Of course, the has been next to no reporting of this by international media.

Has anybody taken responsibility?

[Crazed_Insanity]

The 'rioters' because HK govt refused to close down its borders.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3048604/train-services-hong-kongs-lo-wu-mtr-station-suspended

I've heard of the news of nurses planning on going on strike if they don't close the border, but Carrie Lam refused to completely shut down HK's borders. This bomb threat is news to me until YW mentioned it.

Anyway, it's clear that using bombs is way overboard, but I'm just glad that Taiwan has elected a president who's not pro-Beijing like Carrie Lam.

There are lockdowns within China, I don't understand why Lam can't lock HK down to give HK people a sense of security against this virus. If the medical professionals now go on strike, it'll make them look unprofessional, but can you really blame them? Right now I think it should be clear why there are 'rioters' in HK.

I have to admit they shouldn't cause violence, but when protesters protest on for this long and end up with little results, I'd probably end up resorting to violence too. I'd like to believe I can be as good as Martin Luther King or Ghandi-like peaceful, but I'm probably not.

[mk]

https://www.ft.com/content/5636f828-3e69-11ea-b232-000f4477fbca

Radical pro-democracy, Real IRA, UK, China.
It doesn't add up.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Can’t read financial times without paying...

Anyway, I do want to point out that most HK protesters are peaceful. Just a few bad apples shouldn’t nullify their cause...

Plus, entire China is under lockdown, why must HK insist on partial lockdown, unwilling to listen to the will of the people and not even their own health professionals?

[Yw-slayer]

Has anybody taken responsibility?

Yes, some accounts on Telegram channels popular with the protest movement have claimed that they were the start of an "anti-epidemic" protest.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Terrorists and nurses don’t want to get infected. Terrorists chose bombs and nurses choose to go on strike.

Govt says we don’t care what you do, we will keep the border partially open. Trust us, we know what we’re doing. You won’t die okay?

To be fair to YW. It’s hard to pick a side. It’s like choosing between trump and Hillary...

[IMOA]

The WHO have said that closing down borders is counter productive as the damage it causes to sharing resources, information etc outweighs the benefit. The WHO can be considered an unbiased, knowledgeable external body.

[The359]

https://i.imgur.com/Qc2Sx87.png

Good jorb!

Does he think the other team didn't represent the USA...?

[JoshInKC]

Assuming that screen cap is real, the joke is that the chiefs aren't in Kansas. The stadium is over in missouri.
Also, after a sustained 20ish minutes of fireworks, the fans have pushed me from complete indifference to active dislike of the sport, the team, and the fans.

[The359]

I know the joke, the "Represent USA" was an addendum to it. Double whammy bad tweet.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Kansas City is really really close to Kansas though... :D

The great state of MO seems to like to name its cities in other locations. I remember going thru California, MO during a solar car race...

Anyway, what’s important is that we’re all Americans... ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

The WHO have said that closing down borders is counter productive as the damage it causes to sharing resources, information etc outweighs the benefit. The WHO can be considered an unbiased, knowledgeable external body.

I heard news few day back the China agreed to let in delegates sent by WHO to help..., but haven’t heard anything since.

Is this WHO partial open border policy recommendation based on their delegates findings?

I only know that China refused help from the US, I assumed China has something to hide at the time. But then again, China may simply hate US just like YW hates Billi at this point.

[Jason]

At this point I feel like I'm the only one who is totally on board with voting for whomever the Democratic nominee is. No matter how imperfect they may be, they'll be better than Trump.

[IMOA]

If you guys don’t want Bloomberg then I’d love him down this end of the world. A very smart successful guy with a proven record in public service. If the worst thing about him is that he was extremely successful then it goes some way to explaining why good candidates don’t run.

Billi - I have no idea, its simply the advice the WHO have atm, I suspect it’s based on general experience dealing with this sort of thing rather than anything specific. That and frankly the whole thing is getting a bit silly.

[MR2 Fan]

At this point I feel like I'm the only one who is totally on board with voting for whomever the Democratic nominee is. No matter how imperfect they may be, they'll be better than Trump.

I'm all in for any Dem candidate at this point....no choice to me

[sandydandy]

https://twitter.com/StephenKing/status/1223425267831574534?s=20

Stephen King has quit Facebook because of too much fake news. Overabundance of false political information to be more precise. Quitting FB is long overdue for me, I might just do it this year.

[FaultyMario]

He did get in some hot water in the last few weeks for defending American Dirt1. Which some Latinx writers thought was more of a business decision than a personal conviction and roasted him for it.


1 A phoned-in fictional account of a middle class Mexican woman who has to flee from cartel violence in the most absurd way.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If you guys don’t want Bloomberg then I’d love him down this end of the world. A very smart successful guy with a proven record in public service. If the worst thing about him is that he was extremely successful then it goes some way to explaining why good candidates don’t run.

Billi - I have no idea, its simply the advice the WHO have atm, I suspect it’s based on general experience dealing with this sort of thing rather than anything specific. That and frankly the whole thing is getting a bit silly.

To be honest, I have nothing personally against Bloomberg at the moment. The problem is that a billionaire like that will most likely have a lot of conflict of interests issues down the road when it comes to running the government. Abuse of power will almost be an inevitability.

I'd be okay with billionaires giving up all of their interests and promise to never go back to the business empires that they've given up after public service. Is that really a realistic promise? Bloomberg should simply focus on doing what he does best. Elon Musk should focus on building his EVs and rockets... Trump should just focus on his shady businesses. No need to get distracted with public office for 4 to 8 years... and then go back to running their businesses.

I think rich people are beginning to realize that it's not popular and not as effective to buy politicians... so they're deciding to might as well run the governments directly... I just don't like our government going down that path.

IMHO, the will of the people can obviously be silly at times, but need to be respected. Otherwise why should we call ourselves a democracy?

HK govt is free to ignore the will of the people... and it's ironic that they're called the People's Republic of China. It really should be renamed to Xi's Republic of China.

As for US, if enough people want somebody like Trump or Bloomberg, of course I'll accept them as my president. However, I'm just saying I personally won't exercise my vote to vote for them. I will continue to support the likes of Bernie or Yang or somebody who's truly inspiring.

Unless a billionaire retires from his business interests, I just won't vote for him. If democrats continue to act like plutocrats, I won't vote for them either. The rest of the Americans can decide which is the less of the 2 evils themselves. I'll accept their decisions, but I'll continue to try to find ways to support candidates who I believe are more ideal in a democracy.

BTW, one of the main reasons why I support closing the border at HK is because noone from outside China was able to peek inside yet. In order to make the best recommendations, WHO needs to go in and assess the situation on the inside rather than just take CCP at their words. I know fake news sucks, but we desperately need some real unbiased news. We don't have any of it yet. Taking the CCP at their words would be the silly thing to do.

[MR2 Fan]

Mike Bloomberg was a keynote speaker at the 2004 Republican National Convention. He endorsed Bush and thanked him for starting the war in Iraq.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Liberal Trump ran on Republican ticket, it's only fair for Bloomberg to run as a democrat.

Partisan politics is all just for show anyway. I'm telling you guys, from the outside world looking at US policies, W and Obama looks pretty much the same. Billionaire interests will also be very similar. Bloomberg won't ever need to withhold any aid... he has his own media to slander against any future opponents.

Do you guys want a plutocratic party or a democratic party? Decide during the primary.

I've already said, as much as I hate it, I wouldn't mind supporting Biden this time, but I'm drawing the line at another freaking billionaire.

[MR2 Fan]

Rush Limbaugh has announced he has advanced lung cancer.

haha

[Crazed_Insanity]

Oh com'on. There's no need to laugh about that..., but it's kinda clear Somebody wants him to shut up.

[neanderthal]

Rush Limbaugh has announced he has advanced lung cancer.

haha

Fuck that puta!

[neanderthal]

Liberal Trump ran on Republican ticket, it's only fair for Bloomberg to run as a democrat.

Partisan politics is all just for show anyway. I'm telling you guys, from the outside world looking at US policies, W and Obama looks pretty much the same. Billionaire interests will also be very similar. Bloomberg won't ever need to withhold any aid... he has his own media to slander against any future opponents.

Do you guys want a plutocratic party or a democratic party? Decide during the primary.

I've already said, as much as I hate it, I wouldn't mind supporting Biden this time, but I'm drawing the line at another freaking billionaire.

Completely wrong; as always.

Carry on.

[Tom Servo]

At this point I feel like I'm the only one who is totally on board with voting for whomever the Democratic nominee is. No matter how imperfect they may be, they'll be better than Trump.

Definitely not just you.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I think Neanderthal and Billi are the only ones making threats... most here are not extremists like them! ;)

Anyway, seriously, what a disappointment at Iowa. No polls and now no results. I’m assuming Sanders won big? That’s why DNC is messing with it?

Still, Bernie is supposed to be drawing record turn out; however, level is about the same as 2016. That probably means Iowans are probably going for Trump...

[MR2 Fan]

So the Dems in Iowa are either incompetent or purposely causing this....either way, it's a REALLY bad look and part of the reason a lot of people are fed up with the system

[Jason]

It'd be nice if the states, and the US moved to a ranked choice vote, and got on with life.

[MR2 Fan]

via twitter:

@bessbell

It’s exciting we live in a country where the presumptive challenger to a fascist autocrat is essentially being decided by a game of Red Rover in an Iowa gym.



Edit....also

@williamadler78

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords doesn't look so bad now

[neanderthal]

It'd be nice if the states, and the US moved to a ranked choice vote, and got on with life.

Lets not bring common sense into this now. Next thing you'll be saying we should abandon the electoral college!!! (We should.)

[neanderthal]

So the Dems in Iowa are either incompetent or purposely causing this....either way, it's a REALLY bad look and part of the reason a lot of people are fed up with the system

We can start with the fact that caucuses are very un democratic. Who has the time to spend ALL DAY ...

[FaultyMario]

A disaster like [the Shadow Inc. App] is an unforced error for Democrats, and is sure to undermine American confidence in an electoral system that has been under attack from foreign governments, bots, and disinformation. (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/y3m33x/heres-the-shadow-inc-app-that-failed-in-iowa-last-night)


Just as an FYI, Bernie's people planned for this and developed their own app for logging results. Assuming the precinct captains are inputting information, Bernie's camp should have accurate numbers even if no one else does.


I am now hearing that the Sanders campaign sent workers to every caucus to record the live results.

The DNC was unaware of this. When their early tallies did not match the recorded results from campaign workers, his campaign had 5 lawyers contact the DNC. Now they’re meeting.

According to Jeff Weaver (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_P._Weaver) at 60%, their totals stand at:

Bernie. 29.4
Pete. 24.87
Warren. 20.65
Biden. 12.92
Klob. 11.18 (https://twitter.com/frd_w_k/status/1224762397551779842?s=20)

[FaultyMario]

Their totals stand at:

Bernie. 29.4
Pete. 24.87
Warren. 20.65
Biden. 12.92
Klob. 11.18 (https://twitter.com/frd_w_k/status/1224762397551779842?s=20)

It's been noted that from what has been reported at 15, 40 and 60%, the trend is holding.

[Crazed_Insanity]

One of the conspiracies that I was hoping for was Andrew Yang shocked the DNC so they refused to show us the results! :D

Anyway, I guess the impeachment really ended up hurting Biden. Was not expecting him to be at Amy's level. But anyway... I heard on NPR this morning that back in 2016, republican caucus had similar issue... unable to declare a real winner right away. I think they unofficially declared Mitt Romney as the winner... and then 2 weeks later after counting everything declared Rick Santorum as the official winner, but nobody cares by then.

[FaultyMario]

I think Biden has been a great campaigner. He told people to vote for someone else and they did!

[Jason]

Biden hurts Biden, I don’t think the impeachment has really had an impact. When it comes down to it, he’s riding name recognition, and that’s about it. His policies aren’t too dissimilar from Buttigieg and Klobachar, yet the latter two are better at getting their message across clearly. I’m not some anti Biden zealot, I like the guy on a personal level, I don’t agree with all of his policies, but they are better than Trump’s... but he simply can’t stop putting his foot in his mouth. He’s basically the GWB of the Democratic Party right now, and a lot of left leaning folks aren’t really into that.

That being said, Iowa is one state, and he’ll likely perform very very well in South Carolina, so the hot takes will make a big swing there.

I just want it to be over with, the Democratic Party is too busy tearing itself apart, much to the delight of Trump and company. Bitching about relatively small differences in policy and demeanor while ignoring an authoritarian in training is dangerous.

[MR2 Fan]

I think the problem with the Dems is the same as 2016...Hubris. They think that they can fight among themselves as much as they want because whoever comes out on top would still beat Trump, but that's not a great position.

Honestly none of the candidates inspire me as a "leader" the same way as Obama did, even if it was more inspiration than substance. Whoever gets the nomination REALLY needs to help get the rest of the races for house and senate seats to join as well, or else we'll end up with another Obama situation.

While I would never want to be president myself (in this environment) I really wish I could run myself.... to show the voters what a strong campaign really looks like with heavily defined goals and "roadmaps" of how to achieve them. I could do it....with enough funding and proper implementation.

[Jason]

I think Warren and Buttigieg are the best candidates in terms of being “Presidential”. Sanders is too much of an “old man yells at sky”, and Biden is kind of a bumbler. That’s why my ideal candidate is Warren, since she’s both Presidential and has policies I largely agree with.

Not sure if “Presidential” matters much in the general election though. Hillary, while not inspirational, was fantastically “Presidential”, but in the end it didn’t really matter, because Trump brings everyone down to his level when it comes to discourse.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Since American people love reality TV star so much, maybe we should just do away with these primaries... and just do a presidential survivor debate show on TV! Yes, after every debate, each of them get to vote somebody off the show... or vote somebody in the show... whatever works best. Point is the lousier unpopular candidate gets eliminated after each round! :p

Just let the candidates battle it out themselves. No voter/russian interference whatsoever! And the entire process is transparent to all. :D

During the show, candidates will also have to problem solve... with detail plans of how to pay for medicare for all... or why they think it won't work... and then independent panel of judges can score their plans...

Only requirement for MR2 to participate in this game is that he'll have to provide a birth certificate, fully disclose his tax returns and sign a conflict of interest agreement... such that he and his immediately family members are not on the board or executive level at major corporations and they will immediately sell all of their stocks and real estate investments upon swearing into office and will never be allowed to own stocks and real estate investments again. Of course US government will take good care of ex-presidents after their service. After public office, you'll likely never be a billionaire again, but you'll never be homeless either.

Point is to make sure candidates have pure motives. If you have billions at stake and don't want to give them up... then don't run.

Maybe voters could still participate when there are only 2 or 3 candidates left standing...

And imagine, rather than spending all that money campaigning, this political survivor show could actually make money to help pay for the deficit.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think Warren and Buttigieg are the best candidates in terms of being “Presidential”. Sanders is too much of an “old man yells at sky”, and Biden is kind of a bumbler. That’s why my ideal candidate is Warren, since she’s both Presidential and has policies I largely agree with.

Not sure if “Presidential” matters much in the general election though. Hillary, while not inspirational, was fantastically “Presidential”, but in the end it didn’t really matter, because Trump brings everyone down to his level when it comes to discourse.

I agree with pretty much everything you said... except that I think Trump will be able to tear Pocahontas into pieces in general election. As for Pete, I thought Warren has already torn Pete into pieces after the wine cave incident, but apparently plenty of plutocrats don't care about that.

Anyway, I pretty much came up with similar conclusion that's why I ended up going Andrew Yang, but I think even he isn't presidential enough.

To be honest, Bloomberg is.

However, if it's really going to come down between a plutocrat vs a replutorican, I'll just stay home and watch TV. Not worth my time to vote for either one.

Wealth gap should continue to widen... black lives will continue to not matter regardless of who's in charge... and my hope is that we can finally have a viable 3rd party who's more focused on the average americans.

[MR2 Fan]

So here's a coin toss for a delegate in Iowa....the most suspicious coin toss I've ever seen

https://twitter.com/mooncult/status/1224736815275315200

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't think anyone there was suspecting anything... apparently they all knew the coin is going to pick Mayor Pete! :lol:

[Yw-slayer]

Yes, show your discontent in a "creative" and "inspiring" way by blowing up a disabled toilet!!! Billi loves this stuff!!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dude, don’t be like Neanderthal and stuff words in my mouth. I don’t approve of bombs, but I can understand why some might be frustrated enough to do that after such a long drawn out protest when Carrie Lam seems to care more about China than people of HK.

Your nurses and medical professionals are going on strikes to pressure Lam for a complete border shut down against WHO recommendations. They’re so silly, moronic and unprofessional, huh?

Show some understanding please.

[sandydandy]

Presidential medal of freedom for a hate monger. :|

[neanderthal]

Presidential medal of freedom for a hate monger. :|

There's a new low almost every day, and republicans keep giving him cover.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The state of our union is fucked up!

[neanderthal]

The irony of the delay in Iowa's caucus results being the result of changes demanded by Bernie after 2016 is not lost on me.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The irony of the shadowy folks who worked for Hillary are the ones responsible for create that shadowy app... Even when she's not running, Bernie still couldn't shake off her shadow... Man... she's good.

Anyway, DNC is off to a good start. DNC cannot beat Trump unless Hillary supporters wake up. State of the Union amongst democrats isn't good. Let alone the nations.

Clearly the democratic party is split. A third wants the Hillary type corporate centrists, they may have given up Biden and going for Pete... next back up would be Amy or perhaps Bloomberg can come in and save the day. And the other 3rd are the progressives... and the final 3rd doesn't know what they want. All they know is that they don't want Trump.

If Iowan dems were unable to show overwhelming support for a progressive candidate..., that's not an encouraging sign. To me at least. Probably good for Neanderthal. ;)

Lastly, it was Pete who complained about they screwed up the latest poll and don't want them to release that latest poll... and then all of a sudden, Pete won in the actual caucus! Interesting..., no no, please Billi, make that conspiracy theorist inside you shut up! Seriously guys, the democratic establishment is either very crooked or very incompetent. Either way, I really think it's foolish to continue to support the democratic establishment at this point.

Anyway, it's still early... we'll just have to wait and see and hope things work out... Will just ignore Iowa for now.

[Jason]

Trump’s approval ratings are at their all time high according to Gallup, and this is before taking into account the messiness of Iowa, and the “fact” that the Senate is going to find him “innocent” of all charges brought by the House. None of this is good news for Democrats heading into November. Really hope we can get some positive momentum going forward. Might need to dial back on the in fighting, but unfortunately primaries always get nasty.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Obama and Hillary fought pretty hard too.

Trump won't show the eventual nominee any mercy. I think fights are necessary in order to have all the candidates thoroughly vetted to ensure that they are truly viable in general election.

Obama and Hillary was still able to end up working together... so hopefully all the candidates can learn from that... there are times for fighting... and there're times for working together.

[MR2 Fan]

Mitt Romney is voting to convict Trump...so far the only Republican to do so.

I always thought Romney is one of the most moderate of the GOP (which isn't saying much!), I'm no fan of him, but sometimes he does something decent

[Crazed_Insanity]

Good for him.

I have to applaud Doug Jones of Alabama for standing up for what’s right and risk losing re-election. If he does lose re-election and republican end up gaining a seat at the senate, that’s be a shame... And one more reason why I thought impeaching that asshole would be a bad idea.

Impeachment of Trump was the morally right thing to do but it sure failed to pay any political dividends...

[Jason]

It’s a safe move for him, unfortunately. If he was the deciding vote, he’d vote to acquit. But now he can look like he’s a “good guy” to his base.

[sandydandy]

As an outside observer looking in, I think it’s probably time for people to let go of the impeachment stuff. Let go of the stress of it all. Trump won, let it be.

Democrats should focus on fielding a worthy candidate to dethrone Trump this fall. It’s the only way you’re gonna get rid of him.

What was the deal with Pelosi tearing up that piece of paper last night?

[MR2 Fan]

Trump wouldn't shake her hand and she didn't like the speech anyway?

[neanderthal]

It’s a safe move for him, unfortunately. If he was the deciding vote, he’d vote to acquit. But now he can look like he’s a “good guy” to his base.

He's setting himself up to run for the presidency again after Trump.

[George]

I don't know who I dislike more - father or son.

[Rikadyn]

Maybe it's time we ask for UN to send Election Observers in...

[drew]

Not that the acquittal was any surprise (it was, after all, predetermined before it started), I can't wait to see what the president does now, or what any future president does, now that they have NO check on power.

All hail the king.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQCr0WbWAAUNS9w.jpg

:twitch:
:smh:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow, Deval Patrick beat Andrew Yang?

That’s interesting...

Anyway, based on that coin toss tweet shared by MR2, it’s apparent mayor Pete can’t be beat when it comes to coin tosses. So Sanders should just concede and move on to NH. Nothing to see at Iowa. Iowans most likely will go for Trump based on the relative low turn out... progressives failed to draw and energize a record crowd...

[FaultyMario]

Wow, Deval Patrick beat Andrew Yang?

That’s interesting...

No! That's the point, that's what the graph illustrates!

[Crazed_Insanity]

You meant the table? Anyway, to be honest, I don’t quite understand it. 1st and 2nd alignment. How could Yang be so far ahead of Tom and Deval in the 1st alignment and then lose so badly in the 2nd?

I’m assuming Bernie and Andrew has a lot of die hard fans, but nobody would pick them as 2nd choices?

But still, how can Tom and Deval be seen as more viable than Yang? Shouldn’t more people line up behind those other more viable candidates? If one must pick somebody that couldn’t even qualify for the debate? Why not pick Bloomberg?

Anyway, I’m totally confused by Iowans and I’ve also lost interest to even try to figure them out... They can just sort themselves out 1st.

[FaultyMario]

Hint: It's not the Iowans' fault.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Of course the conspiracy theories of the establishment against my candidates are still alive a well. Even when Hillary’s not running, we can clearly still see her shahdow!

[Rikadyn]

Given how much her stans are projecting, should be able to

[Jason]

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primary-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Iowa’s rather surprising results sure are changing the projections out there. Really curious how Biden is going to do in South Carolina, and how that will impact things. Iowa is very very very white.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It is very concerning that, according to the chart on that link, 'no one' is trailing close behind Sanders at the #2 spot.

DNC will most likely implode if 'no one' ends up as the eventual nominee and then the superdelegates again declares Mayor Pete as the winner and totally ignores the popular votes just like they did in Iowa.

Do we care about election interference and popular vote or not?

When it comes to Trump, yes we do.

When it comes to Sanders, no we don't. :rolleyes:

Maybe it really is time for us to ask UN to send Election Observers in...

[Jason]

Welp, that was quick...

DNC just called for a recanvas

https://apps.npr.org/liveblogs/20200203-iowa/share/dnc-chairman-perez-calling-on-216.html

[MR2 Fan]

so the question is....was it because of the debacle or because Bernie had such good results?

[Jason]

Possibly both. Collecting all the input and hand counting it for accuracy would clear some of the mess up. But at the same time, it’s terrible optics to announce it as Sanders is pulling ahead in the “final” counts.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Conspiracy theories aside, I think the main reason was that the results simply don't add up or don't make any sense. They need to sort things out the old fashion way. We should have the final results before November. They'll probably officially declare Pete as the winner.

However, by November, Andrew Yang would've beaten Trump to the White House. :p

[MR2 Fan]

I don't know if it was mentioned but 2016's GOP Iowa Caucus had 3 different "winners" over a month's time, so this kind of debacle isn't brand new.

Why don't they just have a national vote on a Saturday to choose the nominee? wait, that would make sense

[JoshInKC]

But if we just had a national vote, idiot pig farmers and unemployed diner patrons from new hampshire wouldn't have a crazy amount of control over our politics. What would we do then?

[George]

Pig farmers?
Unemployed diner patrons?
New Hampshire?

Sounds like a Jack Reacher novel.

[Yw-slayer]

Imma just leave this gem from 2017 here: https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2105328/how-donald-trump-making-case-against-democracy-china

[Crazed_Insanity]

Point of democracy is that hopefully voters have a chance to get rid of unethical leaders during the next election. If not, luckily we also have term limits. If an unethical president were to able to fully corrupt our government and became a full blown authoritarian like Xi, we also have our arms to be able to fight against this unethical regime.

For people in China, if you guys end up with Trump as leader, you’ll be completely screwed. Xi is not as dumbass looking as Trump or W, but he is pretty fake ass looking like Hillary. Pretty in the outside but corrupt on the inside.

Anyway, China has realized that they can’t continue to follow USSR’s way... so CCP has been copying the American way as much as they could...

But with an authoritarian rule with absolute power, you know that tend to corrupt absolutely. I predict People’s Republic of China will end before USA. Of course, regardless which nation dies 1st, the world will be fucked as well.

If you don’t want to hear my moronic views, I’d suggest you stop posting ‘gems’ here.

[neanderthal]

But if we just had a national vote, idiot pig farmers and unemployed diner patrons from new hampshire wouldn't have a crazy amount of control over our politics. What would we do then?

Yeah, there is that. :sadbanana:

[neanderthal]

Point of democracy is that hopefully voters have a chance to get rid of unethical leaders during the next election. If not, luckily we also have term limits. If an unethical president were to able to fully corrupt our government and became a full blown authoritarian like Xi, we also have our arms to be able to fight against this unethical regime.

For people in China, if you guys end up with Trump as leader, you’ll be completely screwed. Xi is not as dumbass looking as Trump or W, but he is pretty fake ass looking like Hillary. Pretty in the outside but corrupt on the inside.

Anyway, China has realized that they can’t continue to follow USSR’s way... so CCP has been copying the American way as much as they could...

But with an authoritarian rule with absolute power, you know that tend to corrupt absolutely. I predict People’s Republic of China will end before USA. Of course, regardless which nation dies 1st, the world will be fucked as well.

If you don’t want to hear my moronic views, I’d suggest you stop posting ‘gems’ here.

If he was the "full blown authoritarian" you make him out to be, there ... wouldn't have been protests in Hong Kong. I'm just saying. :rolleyes:

The rest of your take is hot steaming garbage (i'm being kind) as usual.

[neanderthal]

I don't know if it was mentioned but 2016's GOP Iowa Caucus had 3 different "winners" over a month's time, so this kind of debacle isn't brand new.

Why don't they just have a national vote on a Saturday to choose the nominee? wait, that would make sense

Don't bring common sense into this. Next you'll be suggesting that election day should be a federal holiday or some liberal hogwash like that...

[neanderthal]

so the question is....was it because of the debacle or because Bernie had such good results?


Welp, that was quick...

DNC just called for a recanvas

https://apps.npr.org/liveblogs/20200203-iowa/share/dnc-chairman-perez-calling-on-216.html

Either way it means they have less influence on the eventual nominee. (For this go round anyway.) Which is as it should be.

Plus caucuses are terribly anti democratic and never fully representative of the electorate.

[Tom Servo]

Hello, I have just returned from two weeks in the briny deep and apparently I am not the only one that has lost his mind and is just spouting absolute fucking nonsense.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQI_lP8X0AA48sk?format=jpg&name=900x900

(that's from his official twitter page, fwiw).

[mk]

Don't bring common sense into this. Next you'll be suggesting that election day should be a federal holiday or some liberal hogwash like that...

Here it's always a sunday.
And all parties are counting votes.

[MR2 Fan]

Hello, I have just returned from two weeks in the briny deep and apparently I am not the only one that has lost his mind and is just spouting absolute fucking nonsense.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQI_lP8X0AA48sk?format=jpg&name=900x900

(that's from his official twitter page, fwiw).


The quote is fine if it leads into another sentence that elaborates on that....by itself it's meaningless

[neanderthal]

Martin O'Malley excoriating Bernie
telling it like it is.

"I'm quite sure I made far more appearances for Hillary Clinton than Bernie ever did. And I never insisted on a private Lear jet to go campaign for her in OH, PA or WI. Nor were any of my bloggers paid by Russian television to attack her throughout the campaign."

From Twitter.

[neanderthal]

What we're seeing, which is similar to what we saw 4 years ago, is that no Democratic candidate can survive a sustained attack from the left, while also getting attacked from the right, and there will always be people on the left willing to be useful idiots.

You know who you are! :blink

[mk]

It's actually quite interesting that they don't see it so that primary is the election.

Only quick explanation is that it doesn't really matter.

[neanderthal]

Romney says everyone on the Senate is nice, ... except Bernie. (http://telecast.ca/2019/10/20/romney-says-everyone-in-senate-is-really-nice-except-bernie-sanders/)

[Crazed_Insanity]

The quote is fine if it leads into another sentence that elaborates on that....by itself it's meaningless

As an expert at decoding instruction manuals printed in China, allow me to translate:

"Our democracy is in poor shape. This can adversely affect all the other issues that voters care about."

If that's what he's trying to say, I can agree with Mayor Pete.

Perhaps mk can try to decode it too? ;)

[FaultyMario]

I am not the only one that has lost his mind and is just spouting absolute fucking nonsense.




https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/37/The_Shape_of_Water_%28film%29.png

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GFneySIGVg

I know most people here hate conspiracy theories, but just as when scientists don't know the truth, they set up theories and the test them to see if they're true.

Of course, unfortunately in politics, we may never be able to find out the truth unless if some whistle blower can bring forth some sort of evidence...

Anyway, whether the DNC is actively trying to manipulate the process or just not very competent, the shape of our democracy is certainly pretty bad!

Biden and Warren had their chances with Bernie... now the darling of the moment is Pete. I really like Pete originally and I thought he'd be a younger version of Bernie Sanders, but... Anyway, I'm sure he'll eventually move over for Bloomberg.

I'm still hoping while the DNC fights Bernie Sanders, Andrew Yang can end up as a beneficiary! ;)

After this fiasco is over and Trump finished his 2nd term, I think the progressives need to start their own party. They're obviously not welcomed in the DNC. Probably time to move on and start a 3rd major party. Hopefully without Trump, GOP will be easy to defeat. Had the DNC really cared about the average Americans' welfare, whether black or white, Trump would never have won in the 1st place.

If I could turn back time, I wish Obama could keep his promise to stay in the Senate as a junior senator... and just let Hillary be the president... then after 8 years of Hillary, Obama would've been a much more formidable candidate against Trump... and Dems could've had 16 years in the white house...

Hillary was really no match for Trump and Obama really didn't quite deliver that "hope" that we're hoping for...

[MR2 Fan]

I've decided my favorite is Warren, but I don't think she's going to get the nomination

[Crazed_Insanity]

My favorite is still Yang, pretty sure he won't end up as the eventual nominee, but if we're not going to vote for our ideal candidate, might as well not vote.

You can fall in line later... for now, stick with whatever your ideal is..., unless if you have a really good reason to change.

It is kinda mind boggling how Warren lost support so quickly... there are probably considerable amount of moderates moving around Biden, Warren and now on to Pete.

I didn't like Warren attacking Bernie like that, but she is the best compromise between the centrists and progressives. Maybe things are just too polarized now even within party... by trying to satisfy both sides, you end up not making anyone happy?

[neanderthal]

And these the folk saying ... nay, these the folks PROCLAIMING that Bernie's been a social justice leader since the sixties.
How he ain't know bout the system then?

Make it make sense, please.

[neanderthal]

Sorry I'm on my phone and I can't edit my posts apparently.

[Jason]

What we're seeing, which is similar to what we saw 4 years ago, is that no Democratic candidate can survive a sustained attack from the left, while also getting attacked from the right, and there will always be people on the left willing to be useful idiots.

You know who you are! :blink

It’s interesting you say this. You were railing on Billi for focusing on Hillary (or other moderates), meanwhile just about every one of your posts is about Bernie. Reality is, any Democratic candidate will be way better than Trump. Choose your candidate, then vote whomever wins when it comes time to kick Trump out of the White House.

Hopefully whatever the result is, we show up in enough numbers to take back the Senate and keep the House, also.

[sandydandy]

Question for Mo: why do you hate Bernie so much? Just curious. I know I could probably find the answer if I looked back 1200 pages, but I don't really feel like doing that.

Wouldn't he be the ideal Democrat candidate? Seems to tick every box. Is he too much of a socialist for your taste, or is it something else?

[Jason]

Not Mo, but his personality is grating to a lot of people, and also the more vocal supporters of his have turned off many. Also, like most politicians, he has some shadiness here and there, even though eh espouses such idealistic policies.

AKA, like most other politicians and humans, he’s imperfect, and his brand of imperfection annoys some more than others.

[MR2 Fan]

but if we're not going to vote for our ideal candidate, might as well not vote.

and we get Trump for 4 more years with this attitude :smh:

[Jason]

FWIW he was talking voting your ideal in the primary, and falling in line during the general

[Crazed_Insanity]

Even Jason understood what I said. What kind of attitude is needed to beat Trump in your opinion, Mr2?

[MR2 Fan]

oops, sorry

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not Mo, but his personality is grating to a lot of people, and also the more vocal supporters of his have turned off many. Also, like most politicians, he has some shadiness here and there, even though eh espouses such idealistic policies.

AKA, like most other politicians and humans, he’s imperfect, and his brand of imperfection annoys some more than others.

Yeah, but for Mo, I think the reason is probably more personal? He’d fault Hillary’s loss on Sanders and stupid sanders supporters like me.

Also, Mo thought Bernie just isn’t pragmatic enough and won’t be able to get things done. Which might be true, considering Sanders record in congress. However, my opinion is that sanders proposals were most likely blocked with bipartisan support. Nobody likes him in congress because pretty much everybody was bought by corporations.

If after a sanders presidency, he still couldn’t clean up congress’ tie with the rich, then perhaps YW’s right, democracy sucks and we really shouldn’t be spreading it around the world. We should learn from China. See how the Chinese Communists are keeping everything under control?

[Jason]

Forgot we have a debate tonight... 7 people on stage.

Next debate (2/19) is polling/delegate based. Currently 3 are qualified via polling (Biden, Sanders, Warren). Buttigieg, Klobachar will qualify once official delegate counts are released for Iowa, I think. If Bloomberg gets traction in NH, he’ll qualify.

[FaultyMario]

I thought it was going to be a town hall type thing with the candidates split in 2 groups. If it's as I'm describing it, its entertainment value goes down. If it's as you say, I'm all up for it.

[neanderthal]

Question for Mo: why do you hate Bernie so much? Just curious. I know I could probably find the answer if I looked back 1200 pages, but I don't really feel like doing that.

Wouldn't he be the ideal Democrat candidate? Seems to tick every box. Is he too much of a socialist for your taste, or is it something else?


It’s interesting you say this. You were railing on Billi for focusing on Hillary (or other moderates), meanwhile just about every one of your posts is about Bernie. Reality is, any Democratic candidate will be way better than Trump. Choose your candidate, then vote whomever wins when it comes time to kick Trump out of the White House.

Hopefully whatever the result is, we show up in enough numbers to take back the Senate and keep the House, also.

I'm in 100% agreement with you that ANY candidate from the left (except grumpy grandpa, magic mushrooms barbie and Tulsi) are going to be aeons better than tRump.

My derision of Bernie is that he is full of hot air. There's a post that I (thought I) posted which quotes Bernie as saying, very recently, that "he didn't realise that there was so much racism in the criminal justice system, until he started running for president." I asked my usual make it make sense, comparing how Kamala was talking about that exact issue and how she made structural changes from the inside, but the hard left Bernie bros were all parroting "Kamala is a cop." Then those same fools be the ones saying "Bernie has been a civil rights leader from the sixties..." Wait, how he not gonna know about the racism if he was?

And that's kinda an explanation for my last post. It was supposed to include the Kamala bit but my phone didn't post it I guess. I thought it did.

My main bone of contention is the ardent fervent maniacal support he garners but if you look slightly below the surface and apply reason and logic (lets not bring common sense into analysis of Bernie) there's giant massive holes, incongruency and leaps in logic.
He's been excoriating Warren for her graduated medicare for all rollout. And he recently said his own plan is graduated. The bros still support him.
The civil rights leader since the 60s thing. And what has he done since then, besides name a couple of post offices? But the bros still support him.
He didn't have a funding mechanism in place for his medicare for all plan, and refused to say it would be paid for with higher taxes when cornered about it. But then he admitted it would. The bros ...

There are myriad examples of this bullshittery. And all the while you've got the left wing tea party (that's his hard left fan base, aka the bros) saying "the DNC is corrupt, Hillary is crooked, the primary was rigged (we voted 3 million more times for her in that primary but why bring logic into it,) etc etc etc," and all the while magic grandpa says nothing, does nothing. Keeps working his grift. They hold him up as a champion of equal rights, but say nothing, and don't question HIM saying nothing, about unequal pay between men and women in the same position in his campaign. About lack of minorities in his campaign leadership (he's a champion of civil rights they scream, don't criticise him, he's done more for fill in the blank than anyone else.)

But that dog don't hunt. He can't be the second coming of Jesus they make him out to be if there are problems with unequal pay, representation, verity, etc in his campaign. And HIS SURROGATES (Brianna Joy something something et al) etc are the ones tweeting some problematic shit.

He doesn't put an end to it. He doesn't say anything about it. He doesn't act on it. He just quietly yells the same tired line that more equitable economics will solve everything, meanwhile LeBron is complaining about being profiled. Giving money to everyone and making it a "fair field" won't solve racism. He won't address the problems in his campaign about it. They won't solve sexism. He won't address the problems in his campaign about it. Wont solve ableism. Won't solve so many other isms. And he won't say, or do, anything about them.

And it's a compedium of half truths and mis statements and ill statements in his past. Look at his gun rights record. And shit he said in the past about the Crime Bill they like to come at Biden for. Then he says he was against it but voted for it because of provisions in it related to police funding or some other bull unicorn shit. But he's on tape speaking very strongly in favor of it. He who called out Hillary's "super predators" quip. Said essentially the same thing using different words, and came out strongly in favor of that same exact crime bill she was referencing.

Meanwhile he hones his grift, keeps working his con. You see he no long lambasts "millionaires and billionaires as taking an inordinate amount of the profit garnered off the labor and toil of all hard working americans." He now excoriates just the billionaires. Because he's a millionaire himself.

There's a litany of things that don't jive, actions that don't line up, words that don't quite measure up.

And, like Jason said, he's a cunt.
All that to say why do I "hate" him.

"Wouldn't he be the ideal Democratic candidate? ..."

Well, he's not a Democrat. And he hasn't formed a coalition of like minded, or even not, people in his 40 years in Congress. If he was so likeable, if his ideas were so rational and forward thinking, you'd think he would have formed a "green new deal" caucus years ago to advance his agenda. But nope. Nothing. Because no one likes him. There's a gay republican caucus ffs, and we know how most conservatives feel about the gay community. But there isn't a "we like Bernies ideas" caucus. Why is that? He's a cunt.

His ideas have some merit. But he is so unlikeable that people haven't coalesced around him to advance those ideas. And no. He didn't come up with medicare for all. I can't remember who it was right now (Conyers?) but even Hillary, as first lady in the 90's, floated that idea loooooooooooong before him. But the bros still support him.

So yes. I hate him a lot, because of his followers. Their behaviour towards Democrats, their language, tactics. They attack the left more than the right (i've pointed out how little billi criticises the republicans) but they forget that it wasn't the progressives who freed the slaves, got child labor outlawed, got the weekend and 8 hour days, the suffragettes and women voting, the civil rights movement, and just to bring it to a far more recent incident, the AFFORDABLE CARE ACT. It wasn't the progressives. It was liberals.

Us centrists who they taint as beholden to the banks and peons of the politicians. Us centrists who phone bank and knock on doors and register voters, who got people to get out and vote. Quietly, the liberals have been working to advance the cause and lives of the working people, while Bernie bros yell "free college education, no more college debt" (which would mainly benefit suburban middle class whites) whereas as pragmatic liberals are more likely to advocate for free daycare/ childcare and after school programs, which would benefit EVERYONE, not just suburban middle class whites.

Anyway, I hope i've sufficiently responded to your query.

[neanderthal]

FWIW he was talking voting your ideal in the primary, and falling in line during the general

But if you ask billi, to this day he says he did the right thing voting 3rd party in 2016, which is completely incongruent with what he is saying now. (Nevermind the horror that has been Trump, babies in cages for fucks sakes, courts lost for a generation. Billi still believes he did the right thing in 2016. I can't get my mind around babies in cages and "i did the fair and noble thing because Hillary was crooked (no proof submitted) the DNC rigged it (no proof, again) etc, and HILLARY WARNED US.)

But he didn't do what he wants us to do today. And he won't admit he was wrong.

I own up to going hard for Bernie initially. I learned, I moved on. I'm trying to make up for my mistake. Billi will NEVER say that what he and thousands of others did in 2016, was wrong. Never.
Babies in cages. Babies being looked after by ... pre teens, who don't even know them, and had probably never met them until they were all locked up together. All drinking filthy water from communal toilets.

Hillary warned us; she was very clear.

But billi and his bros, they wasn't wrong! :rolleyes:

[neanderthal]

Yeah, but for Mo, I think the reason is probably more personal? He’d fault Hillary’s loss on Sanders and stupid sanders supporters like me.

Also, Mo thought Bernie just isn’t pragmatic enough and won’t be able to get things done. Which might be true, considering Sanders record in congress. However, my opinion is that sanders proposals were most likely blocked with bipartisan support. Nobody likes him in congress because pretty much everybody was bought by corporations.

If after a sanders presidency, he still couldn’t clean up congress’ tie with the rich, then perhaps YW’s right, democracy sucks and we really shouldn’t be spreading it around the world. We should learn from China. See how the Chinese Communists are keeping everything under control?

Please, everyone, for your own edification, click "view post" for yourselves.

The disparity between the bolded part and the expectations that he would turn America into a nirvana is staggering. There's a disconnect in that logic that you could drive a universe through. (@sandydandy this is the illogical shit that drives me nuts about Sanders followers!)

No one likes Sanders. If they had, and if his ideas had merit (which they do, but ... they don't like him) then he would have passed so much more legislation than naming post offices and designating a day for veterans. How is he going to pass legislation when he isn't liked by the senators and congressmen? Someone, please, make it make sense. How is Bernie going to pass legislation when no one likes him? Magic grandpa has suddenly become president. Are they all supposed to forget ... i'm gonna raise my blood pressure and just let you complete the thought yourselves.

Underlined. What. the. actual. fuck?

That's why I go hard at Bernie. And billi. Pull unicorn shit out of the air and state it as fact. Nah fam. Not when i'm here.

[FaultyMario]

Presidential medal of freedom for a hate monger. :|

And de facto ostracism for LTC Alexander Vindman who testified as a witness during the House inquiry.

Makes me so mad to see the guy who played by the rules get shafted by those who didn't.



His twin brother was also escorted out of the White House grounds.

[sandydandy]

Anyway, I hope i've sufficiently responded to your query. Yes you have, kind sir. Thoroughly!

I actually forgot that he wasn’t a Democrat, but instead an independent.

[Jason]

Meanwhile.... Trump has now retaliated against two testifiers. Three if you include Yovanavich(sp?). He's been emboldened by the acquittal and I fear what lines he's gonna test next.

[sandydandy]

I hope the next president hires them back and fires half of ICE. Assuming there’s a new president.

[drew]

Yep. Gets impeached for abuse of power. Pays no consequence. Day after acquittal, does more abuse of power.

Isn't retaliation against witnesses an actual crime? Oh yeah, that's right, it doesn't matter anymore.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dems need to gather better evidences. If even Zelensky denied quid pro quo, doesn’t the case fall apart? At the very least get Zelensky onboard before impeaching.

I can see Trump becoming the 1st ever president to be impeached in every term! Dems just need to build a better case if we want him removed.

[neanderthal]

Yep. Gets impeached for abuse of power. Pays no consequence. Day after acquittal, does more abuse of power.

Isn't retaliation against witnesses an actual crime? Oh yeah, that's right, it doesn't matter anymore.

And the Republicans won't face blowback at the polls, their supporters DON'T CARE. Despite trying to paint themselves as the law and order party (look at how they frame things, immigration for instance!) but turn a blind eye to crimes committed by their own.

All we liberals need to do is basically point out that GOP hypocrisy in multiple ads (where's Steyer and Bloomberg for this?) but we're busy defending ourselves from the tea party wing of the party. Who want unity if their candidate prevails. Make it make sense ...

I get that it's the primaries, so, don't say "it's the primaries, this is where candidates get vetted" because the attacks are falsehoods and mis- representations, etc. It's not vetting, it's destabilisation.

[neanderthal]

[spolier]Dems need to gather better evidences. If even Zelensky denied quid pro quo, doesn’t the case fall apart? At the very least get Zelensky onboard before impeaching.

I can see Trump becoming the 1st ever president to be impeached in every term! Dems just need to build a better case if we want him removed.[/spoiler]

Again, everybody, click view post and illumine yourselves to what I constantly rail on an on about. About billi, specifically, and the Bernie bros, in general.

Billi. Can you tell us the evidence that was presented in the senate that basically, as you put it, was so weak that Trump got exonnerated? That Democrats failed to build a case around.

I/ We will wait patiently for you to enlighten us.

[Tom Servo]

Not only Vindman but his twin brother who worked at the NSC as well for...well, being his brother I guess? Sondland apparently is saying he's been told he'll be axed as well.

I honestly can't stop laughing that Susan Collins claims that she voted to acquit because she knew that Trump would be more cautious next time, now that he almost got booted from office.

[neanderthal]

Again, everybody, click view post and illumine yourselves to what I constantly rail on an on about. About billi, specifically, and the Bernie bros, in general.

Billi. Can you tell us the evidence that was presented in the senate that basically, as you put it, was so weak that Trump got exonnerated? That Democrats failed to build a case around.

I/ We will wait patiently for you to enlighten us.

We're still waiting billi. Go ahead. Ignore this post, it's for every one else, not you.

THERE WAS NO TRIAL. NO EVIDENCE WAS INTRODUCED. NO WITNESSES CAME BEFORE THE SENATE. Ergo, there was no trial

What there was was an affront and decimation of our constitution.

But did y'all see how quickly billi laid the blame on the Democrats? :smh: Did you see any mention of organic, high grade, artisinal, small batch widespread Republican cuntistry? The rot is not just Trump.

Fuck Trump. Fuck the GOP. Fuck their supporters!

[neanderthal]

Not only Vindman but his twin brother who worked at the NSC as well for...well, being his brother I guess? Sondland apparently is saying he's been told he'll be axed as well.

I honestly can't stop laughing that Susan Collins claims that she voted to acquit because she knew that Trump would be more cautious next time, now that he almost got booted from office.

I bet Republican voters will still vote for her, because they put country over party. [<edit>I meant party over country. What was I thinking?

Fuck em all.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Regarding impeachment, Senate trial was no doubt full of BS. However, senator not doing their job wasn’t the main issue.

I think there are couple more important issues which were:

1) is he guilty?
2) was the crime really worthy of removal?

Imagine if there was no stained dress. Imagine if Monica insisted nothing happened? All testimonies were based only on heresay of whistleblowers...

Zelensky denied that anything happened and that gave conservatives reason to doubt dems’ case.

Also, like having sex with intern, withholding aid is also not like treason. Obviously selfish and morally wrong thing to do but neither created a clear and present danger to the country.

If you’re in the same party, you’ll likely forgive that president and let him stay on.

Clinton showed remorse after impeachment. Trump didn’t.

If he doesn’t keep his ego in chk, sooner or later he will trip over it. There’s no law saying that a president can never be impeached again for another crime, right?

[neanderthal]

Regarding impeachment, Senate trial was no doubt full of BS. However, senator not doing their job wasn’t the main issue.

I think there are couple more important issues which were:

1) is he guilty?
2) was the crime really worthy of removal?

Imagine if there was no stained dress. Imagine if Monica insisted nothing happened? All testimonies were based only on heresay of whistleblowers...

Zelensky denied that anything happened and that gave conservatives reason to doubt dems’ case.

Also, like having sex with intern, withholding aid is also not like treason. Obviously selfish and morally wrong thing to do but neither created a clear and present danger to the country.

If you’re in the same party, you’ll likely forgive that president and let him stay on.

Clinton showed remorse after impeachment. Trump didn’t.

If he doesn’t keep his ego in chk, sooner or later he will trip over it. There’s no law saying that a president can never be impeached again for another crime, right?

A stained dress WAS presented though. So, I ask again, what evidence was actually presented?

With holding aid in return for ... lawd Jesus, take the wheel here please! billi doesn't know crimes and its 2020 and google is still free.

[FaultyMario]

This Steyer kid, wow, he sounds like he could have a future in politics.

[neanderthal]

Amy speaking the truths "Bernie and I have worked a long time together, but I don't think people want to vote for the divider in chief."

Can't say she's wrong. Amy might be my new front runner.
Warren, who was a Republican into her 40s. Yeah. I like your plans, but your Jehnny come lately is troublesome.
Biden. The safe but dull choice.
Pete. Dude, answer us about the city you're mayor of. When you deflect, it tells me you're hiding something.
Bernie. lol.
Others. Bah humbug.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This will probably be the last $25 given to Andrew... I’ll give more if he could hang on...

[MR2 Fan]

Interesting article about the relative unimportance and overall lack of "swing voters"

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/02/06/rachel-bitecofer-profile-election-forecasting-new-theory-108944?utm_source=pocket-newtab

It makes sense to me that elections are more decided about who chooses to vote vs stay home. I think dems have more people who CAN vote, but often don't unless they're really inspired or pissed off.

[neanderthal]

Interesting article about the relative unimportance and overall lack of "swing voters"

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/02/06/rachel-bitecofer-profile-election-forecasting-new-theory-108944?utm_source=pocket-newtab

It makes sense to me that elections are more decided about who chooses to vote vs stay home. I think dems have more people who CAN vote, but often don't unless they're really inspired or pissed off.

That's fair. But I think it ignores the efforts of Republicans, in red states especially, to gerrymander, suppress, interfere, intimidate, just plain drop voters from the voting rolls, etc
We're pissed, but we've been pissed from day one of the Trumpcalypse, and we're tired of being pissed. The state of being tired of being pissed is our normal. And that worries me. I'm super pumped that Stacy Abrams and Beto and co are working voter turnout pretty hard. I hope Steyer and Bloomberg use their presidential candidacies to really flood the airwaves with negative ads about the GOP in general. And specifics too.

And no billi, I don't believe the Democrats do it as much as the republicans.

[Jason]

Amy is definitely my top choice of the moderates, she had a strong showing last night. Tom comes out and says really good things every debate, I think he's less running for POTUS and more laying the groundwork for the general argument of Democrat vs Republican. He's just out there to lay some truth bombs.

Regarding evidence/strong case for the impeachment trial. A. Democrats were obstructed by both the Trump administration during investigation and Republicans during the trial. B. Modern Republicans, barring the rare bit of "bravery" will always protect party over country. There is no crime, and no evidence that'd be enough for them to remove their own members. Let alone the POTUS.

[neanderthal]

Amy is definitely my top choice of the moderates, she had a strong showing last night. Tom comes out and says really good things every debate, I think he's less running for POTUS and more laying the groundwork for the general argument of Democrat vs Republican. He's just out there to lay some truth bombs.

Regarding evidence/strong case for the impeachment trial. A. Democrats were obstructed by both the Trump administration during investigation and Republicans during the trial. B. Modern Republicans, barring the rare bit of "bravery" will always protect party over country. There is no crime, and no evidence that'd be enough for them to remove their own members. Let alone the POTUS.

Geographically she could secure the swing vote midwest, meaning a VP should come from Florida or Texas, and ideally be a black or Hispanic male. Castro or Gillum should be the pick. In my opinion. It wouldn't strictly speaking, need to be a black or hispanic male if she's at the top of the ticket as there is already a non WASP male on there, meaning Beto could also a good pick. Gillum very nearly got the Florida governorship, but thanks to Republican ... I don't have to tell you that story.

And I really hope they make PR and DC states as one of their first big pushes. Let the GOP worry about 4 more potential Democratic senators and the requisite congresspeople, while they hammer out a much better healthcare package, impose a national a 3 month maternity/ paternity leave, get pre K childcare in the mix and repeal Trumps taxes with their own more rational one.

And Amy has a legal background. Id want to see Trump tried for his crimes.

[neanderthal]

This will probably be the last $25 given to Andrew... I’ll give more if he could hang on...


Just to show how consistent your record is on picking shitty candidates, yo man Yang said Trump officials should be exempt from prosecution after they leave office. Have you ever heard of the Nuremburg trials? It wasn't just for military people; it ws for ALL officials who were complicit in enabling the Nazi regime. Bankers, industrialists, etc.

And, as a bonus, Bernie's endorsement of Joe Rogan tanked his support from black voters from 17% to 8%. (https://www.mediaite.com/news/bernie-sanders-support-with-black-voters-cratered-by-more-than-half-in-a-week/amp/?_twitter) That shit is what happens when you don't LISTEN to black people when we talk about racism, racists, systematic racism in all forms, etc. Bernie approved the support of a racist, sexist, transphobe and just like that he can kiss his "civil rights leader from the sixties" shtick goodbye.

[Tom Servo]

I guess it's not really politics, but I cannot describe the sheer amount of joy that this image and the multitude of dunks it has inspired has brought me.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQRF7jkWkAEJ1QZ?format=jpg&name=large

The latest - looks like he motorboated Gritty.

[FaultyMario]

It's crazy how that sequence of photos got under his skin! What's he trying to hide, Vitiligo?

[Tom Servo]

We are lucky that he has never internalized the concept of the Streisand Effect.

[FaultyMario]

I had to google that. Although being a paranoid and germophobe, I can totally comprehend him having some neurotic disorders.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interesting article about the relative unimportance and overall lack of "swing voters"

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/02/06/rachel-bitecofer-profile-election-forecasting-new-theory-108944?utm_source=pocket-newtab

It makes sense to me that elections are more decided about who chooses to vote vs stay home. I think dems have more people who CAN vote, but often don't unless they're really inspired or pissed off.

Just finished reading this article...

I suppose this makes sense, which kinda explained Andrew Yangs failed bid? Most Trump supporters are just not going to flip no matter what. Andrew probably flipped as many as he could, but still had little to show for. Also, most dems probably thought he’s not electable enough... hence the lousy Iowa performance. Or the progressives thought they need to throw their weight behind Sanders?

Charisma-wise, both Sanders or Yang or anyone else are no Bill Clinton or Obama. Which was probably why the low voter turn out?

Anyway, without higher voter turn outs, it’ll be hard to beat Trump.

Sanders has traditionally been able to energize those who don’t usually vote. Not sure what happened in Iowa... hopefully things improve later on.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQRF7jkWkAEJ1QZ?format=jpg&name=large


If only he were a liberal prez, he’d be in big trouble like Canada’s Justin Trudeau! :D

[Rikadyn]

http://www.mayopete.io/

[neanderthal]

Sanders *promised* to release his medical records before the first vote was cast.

Guess who just walked that back. (https://t.co/7SQ522osN7?amp=1)

[neanderthal]

Meanwhile billi's dude is trying to walk back reproductive rights. (https://twitter.com/AndrewSolender/status/1226150001690189825?s=19)

[Jason]

Really hate that PoV. Not all abortions are tragedies, stop saying that Dems. It’s been a black mark on our pro choice agenda for a while. I assume it’s because they’re trying to cater to moderate/conservative views.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, Sanders should also release his birth certificate too... also make sure that he’s not a Muslim!

As for Yang, listening to what he’s saying, I’m just so appalled by his walk back. Oh my gosh. What was he thinking saying such offensive crap! America needs to put him on ignore!!!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Really hate that PoV. Not all abortions are tragedies, stop saying that Dems. It’s been a black mark on our pro choice agenda for a while. I assume it’s because they’re trying to cater to moderate/conservative views.

I was being sarcastic with my previous post, but just wondering which abortions are not tragic?

[neanderthal]

I love this ... (https://twitter.com/TomDangora/status/1226533115331518466?s=19)

Bernie's nasty ass supporters being called out ...

[neanderthal]

Everybody knows he's divisive. (https://t.co/jnU4Z2EfkT?amp=1)

[neanderthal]

Yes, Sanders should also release his birth certificate too... also make sure that he’s not a Muslim!

As for Yang, listening to what he’s saying, I’m just so appalled by his walk back. Oh my gosh. What was he thinking saying such offensive crap! America needs to put him on ignore!!!

No one is asking for his birth certificate. Stop trying to conflate something he promised to do with the actions of racists trying to delegitimize the first black president, they aren't similar things.

[Crazed_Insanity]

“Bernie Sanders makes good on campaign promise, health records say he's good to go“

That promise was kept Dec 2019.

https://amp.burlingtonfreepress.com/amp/2781926001

If that’s not enough for Hillary Bros, I say we better make sure he makes his full medical report along with birth certificate ready. Also, make sure we certify Sanders is not a Muslim! Don’t want to make the same mistake Obama made!

I think I’m ready to throw my support behind Amy just to shut the mouth of that Hillary bro. And he thinks Bernie bro’s are annoying...

[FaultyMario]

Also, make sure we certify Sanders is not a Muslim!

Dude, that's out of the question:


"Israel has the right to ... exist in peace in security," he said, "but we must be pro-Palestinian as well." Then Sanders turned to Netanyahu, pointing out that he was recently "indicted for bribery" and said he "in my view is a racist."

He's a jihadi, obviously.

[Rikadyn]

https://i.imgur.com/n4UEgPt.gif

[FaultyMario]

I love that there are organizations like Emily's List (https://www.emilyslist.org/donate) with an "on notice" group of seats that they will try to flip to safeguard things like abortion rights.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQMIChHXsAIuLwc.jpg

The above are GOP incumbents with low approval ratings. In essence, doable flips.

[Jason]

I will be so happy if McConnell gets voted out.

[FaultyMario]

Collins can get fucked.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Somehow whenever liberals boycott Chick-fil-A due to whatever social issues, it ends up driving up their sales even more.

Impeach that idiot, you end up driving up his approval rating.

I personally think the wisest thing to do is to leave those senators alone and let the conservatives figure out for themselves why those low rating asshole should go.

[George]

Collins can get fucked.

So can Cardboard Cory.

He earned that nickname by having town hall meetings so seldom that some constituents started bringing cardboard cutouts of him to events.

https://images1.westword.com/imager/u/745xauto/9375750/aug152017_cory_gardner_townhall_marshall_2_of_37_. jpg

https://media1.fdncms.com/csindy/imager/u/original/6243663/1_-_5ixnlbz.jpg

[drew]

Every one of the cunts in that picture need to be outed. In a dream world, none of them would be able to hold a higher-esteemed job than a greeter at Wal Mart.

Fuck every last one of them.

[Rikadyn]

https://www.pressherald.com/2020/02/06/u-s-senate-candidate-selects-guillotine-as-symbol-of-the-work-we-have-to-do/

[Tom Servo]

I give up.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1227040292060180481

[drew]

Jesus....

Even if he's not being clueless, his attempts at self-deprecation always seem to fall right on their tits.

Larry David is a genius.

[FaultyMario]

You know how people who did a lot of coke in the eighties can't get past the good times? Well, I think Donnie's drug of choice was SNL.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ucJN8cRDqM

[Cam]

I give up.

https://i.imgflip.com/3ovzot.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/3ovzot)

[MR2 Fan]

Satire requires an understanding of humor. Trump has no understanding of that.

[neanderthal]

Stone is gonna get a shorter sentence i guess.

Now's as good a time to say elections matter!

[Crazed_Insanity]

OMG! NH prelim results are showing Amy in the lead! Neanderthal can feel better now...

Anyway, if this trend continues, I’m beginning to think dem voters don’t really know that they want! How can Pete and Sanders be ahead in one state... and then trail so badly in another?!?!

Hopefully this is just an anomaly of early results...

[FaultyMario]

Wasn't Sanders leading at 1%. By the rules set by Mayo Pete that was more than enough to call it a win.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Okay, 11% in, sanders is leading in NH now, but Pete and Amy are not far behind.

It’s really strange Warren has lot steam..., at least Biden still has hope down south, but not sure if warren can recover...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wasn't Sanders leading at 1%. By the rules set by Mayo Pete that was more than enough to call it a win.

:lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Thanks for the laugh, but after learning it’s game over for Andrew Yang, I guess a sad smilie is in order... :(

Or should that be called a saddie face?

[MR2 Fan]

There's always 2024 or maybe a cabinet position

[Crazed_Insanity]

I wasn’t really expecting him to win but he really performed well below expectations...

I guess he just won’t be the guy to carry his ideas over...

[FaultyMario]

Thanks for the laugh, but after learning it’s game over for Andrew Yang, I guess a sad smilie is in order... :(

You know who also quit? The 4 federal prosecutors in Rogers Stone case. :smh:

[FaultyMario]

There's always 2024 or maybe a cabinet position

I think that if Sanders gets the nomination he would create a position for government innovation or something like that for Yang, much like Obama did for Warren's consumer protection initiative.

I think he was one of the few rivals that publicly acknowledged Yang's appeal to that group of people.

[Jason]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/02/11/us/elections/results-new-hampshire-primary-election.html?region=ResultsTable&action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Stories so far:
- Sanders staying steady
- Buttigieg continues to have momentum from Iowa, probably pulling support from Biden
- Klobuchar is also trending up pretty dramatically, possibly stealing from both Biden and Warren
- Warren is continuing to slip, sadly, and is basically non viable at this point
- Biden, the biggest story, is absolutely tanking so far.

[neanderthal]

I think that if Sanders gets the nomination he would create a position for government innovation or something like that for Yang, much like Obama did for Warren's consumer protection initiative.

I think he was one of the few rivals that publicly acknowledged Yang's appeal to that group of people.

Circumstances are a little bit different, I think. The consumer protection initiative came at the moment when consumers were being gouged by banks and penalised for nothing of their own fault (other than not understanding how a variable rate mortgage works, but in the heat and excitement of buying home i can understand)

[neanderthal]

Anybody else notice that not a peep was issued about Amy being "a cop" amidst all the Kamala is a cop bullshit?
The tea party left ran with it, not realising that they were being used.

[Jason]

Speaking of Harris, I really hope she’s AG for the next administration, I want to see her go after Trump and co so, so badly.

[MR2 Fan]

Tony Bennett dropped out also...or Michael Bennett or whatever his name was

[neanderthal]

Speaking of Harris, I really hope she’s AG for the next administration, I want to see her go after Trump and co so, so badly.

The only thing I want more than that is her in the White House. The entire corrupt administration and the Republicans who emboldened them.

[neanderthal]

You know who also quit? The 4 federal prosecutors in Rogers Stone case. :smh:

Elections matter!

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think that if Sanders gets the nomination he would create a position for government innovation or something like that for Yang, much like Obama did for Warren's consumer protection initiative.

I think he was one of the few rivals that publicly acknowledged Yang's appeal to that group of people.

Considering the level of support Yang received, I’m not so sure he’ll have a political future. His messages certainly will live on though.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Also, looks like a centrist will win the nomination. Sanders narrowly defeated Pete only because of Amy’s surge! If either Pete or Amy drops out, their combined vote count would’ve been higher than sanders and warren combined!

Only way for sanders to win is to continue to have Pete, Amy, and Joe fight each other. But even if that happens, sanders may not end up with enough to win nomination.... and if 2 of those centrists dropped out, looks like it’s likely game over for Bernie...

In terms of voter turn out, supposedly it’s on pace with 2008 level...

Ideally we need to have high turn out supporting a single candidate... but I suppose it’s an improvement compared to Iowa...

[FaultyMario]

Also, looks like a centrist will win the nomination.

The first 2 states are not representative of the other 48. Because, well, Josh said it better:


idiot pig farmers and unemployed diner patrons

Also:

https://media.voltron.voanews.com/Drupal/01live-166/styles/sourced_737px_wide/s3/2020-02/Iowa%20Caucus%20-%20Demographics%20-%20Race%20-%20Iowa%20vs%20US.png

[Jason]

Sanders is ahead on popular vote so far, Buttigieg is ahead in delegates. Really hope something like this isn't the final result. Need a clear winner heading into the general.

[Rikadyn]

Also, looks like a centrist will win the nomination...

Sanders is a centrist.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Sanders is a centrist.

Sanders is probably considered a communist in US! :p

IMHO, I'm a centrist. I like both capitalism and socialism. I can see the advantages of conservative values and liberal values. I'm both pro-life and pro-choice..., but I suppose I'm slightly left leaning. But to most here I'm probably a conservative asshole.

Anyway, the problem with current day politics is corruption. China is corrupted by absolute power and USA is corrupted by absolute money.

These 2 great nations can probably do well under whatever kind of -isms. I do believe Xi is going to drive China to the ground soon, if he is not ousted. I also do worry about US government continues to be a puppet of the rich. I think Bernie is now our only hope to reverse this, but it's not looking good...

I was hoping to see Andrew with Amy's surprising numbers, but the reverse was true. It was also shocking for me to see the demise of Warren. I initially thought Sanders and Warren would end up getting most of the dem votes...

Anyway, it is what it is. I guess now I can't waste my vote on Andrew. Wonder how CA will vote during the primary.

Like I said, I will support whoever eventual nominee is in the end..., except another billionaire. Unless the billionaire promised to retired for good even after public office, I just cannot vote for them. They really should just stick to making their money and pay their fair share of the taxes. Money and power absolutely shouldn't mix.

[Rikadyn]

They really should just stick to making their money

Their exploitation of the working class is a rather large part of the problem.

[MR2 Fan]

MSNBC are trying their hardest to either not mention Bernie, or trying to prop up anyone else other than Bernie.

Whether you're a Bernie fan or not (I'm still undecided), it just seems to be a problem of corporate owned media using their bully tactics to support their favorite candidates despite the results of voting/polls

[Rikadyn]

It's called manufacturing consent.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Their exploitation of the working class is a rather large part of the problem.

Becoming president of the US will enable them to exploit more people around the world.

[Crazed_Insanity]

MSNBC are trying their hardest to either not mention Bernie, or trying to prop up anyone else other than Bernie.

Whether you're a Bernie fan or not (I'm still undecided), it just seems to be a problem of corporate owned media using their bully tactics to support their favorite candidates despite the results of voting/polls

Saw an MSNBC interviewing a woman in NH... and she was an undecided voter as well and she told the MSNBC reporter straight to his face that she voted for Bernie Sanders specifically because MSNBC's continuous smearing or ignoring Bernie.

[MR2 Fan]

do I even want to ask?

[Crazed_Insanity]

If you’re still undecided, take your time. When you’re ready to ask, then ask. If not, then don’t ask. Quite simple really. ;)

[MR2 Fan]

and seems you added a reply before my question, it was really about your "Becoming president of the US will enable them to exploit more people around the world. " comment, which I don't understand, unless you mean a billionaire becoming president, not just Sanders etc.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Of course, I have nothing against sanders being president but I have everything against another billionaire becoming president.

They have to promise to give up their billions in order to win my vote. Is that likely? Doubt it.

[Rikadyn]

3467

[MR2 Fan]

Of course, I have nothing against sanders being president but I have everything against another billionaire becoming president.

They have to promise to give up their billions in order to win my vote. Is that likely? Doubt it.

Gotcha.

Edited to add...Billionaires spending all of their cash isn't always the most straightforward thing though. It isn't necessarily like they just have a few billion in (an offshore probably) bank account collecting dust.

Much of it is probably tied up in stocks and other business related assets if I was to guess, and that could fluctuate depending on the market.

I'm not an expert, but that's how I understand it.

[George]

I'm of the opinion that it will take someone like Bloomberg or Steyer to make some Republicans and former Republican fiscal conservatives vote for anyone other than Trump.

I don't see people like the set-in-their-ways, east-coast conservatives that I know who voted for Trump "because he is the Republican!" voting for most of the current Democratic candidates in favor of Trump. Of course there will be some who will vote to get rid of Trump, but I think the recent impeachment shows us just how strong party identity can be. The same people who gritted their teeth and pretended not to notice Trump's obvious faults because they couldn't vote for Hillary Clinton won't suddenly find Sanders or Warren or most of the rest of the pack any more appealing.

Bloomberg or Steyer might be a more appealing compromise. A (real, not imagined) successful businessman might be able to unseat Trump. Maybe.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I do agree with George and I do believe Bloomberg does look the most 'presidential' or 'electable'.

However, IMHO, billionaires interested in public office should donate/transfer all of their wealth, whether cash, assets, businesses, to a particular independent foundation. As if you're dead. This foundation will be managing everything, severing ties from the said billionaire. Bloomberg News can still keep its name, but will no longer be run by Bloomberg. People can still keep their jobs... just that the boss has moved on to become a true public servant. Not to use the white house to accumulate more wealth and power.

Of course after their public service, exUSPOTUS and their families will be well taken care of by the government and secret services. If you or a family member really cannot give up your billionaire life style, then maybe they shouldn't be in public office.

[MR2 Fan]

I am not counting on the dem candidate pulling any substantial votes from Trump voters. I think it's much more likely we'll just see Trump voters stay home, and an angry mob of Trump haters voting for whoever is on the Dem side.

The one good thing this time is that pretty much everyone on the dem side doesn't have the tons of baggage and conspiracy theories against them from the right, the way Hillary had. I mean that was over 2 decades of things being said against her.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, Sanders is a socialist. To most conservatives, Sanders might as well be a satanist.

Mayor Pete is gay. To most conservatives who do not have or do not know that they have gay children, Pete might as well be a Muslim.

So Amy may be dems' best bet, if not Bloomberg.

Of course personally, now that Andrew's done, I'm hoping for Bernie to win. Hope I won't jinx him too...

[FaultyMario]

I'm of the opinion that it will take someone like Bloomberg or Steyer to make some Republicans and former Republican fiscal conservatives vote for anyone other than Trump.

I don't see people like the set-in-their-ways, east-coast conservatives that I know who voted for Trump "because he is the Republican!" voting for most of the current Democratic candidates in favor of Trump. Of course there will be some who will vote to get rid of Trump, but I think the recent impeachment shows us just how strong party identity can be. The same people who gritted their teeth and pretended not to notice Trump's obvious faults because they couldn't vote for Hillary Clinton won't suddenly find Sanders or Warren or most of the rest of the pack any more appealing.

Bloomberg or Steyer might be a more appealing compromise. A (real, not imagined) successful businessman might be able to unseat Trump. Maybe.

Except that everytime the Dems have nominated a republican light (or fiscal conservative, like you call it) they've lost.

[neanderthal]

I am not counting on the dem candidate pulling any substantial votes from Trump voters. I think it's much more likely we'll just see Trump voters stay home, and an angry mob of Trump haters voting for whoever is on the Dem side.

The one good thing this time is that pretty much everyone on the dem side doesn't have the tons of baggage and conspiracy theories against them from the right, the way Hillary had. I mean that was over 2 decades of mostly completely made up things being said against her.

I, for one, am still waiting to hear what was in her emails. :rolleyes:

[neanderthal]

So Berner's going after the culinary union because the union doesn't want to give up their hard fought for health care, which is fantastic. St Bernie's M4A doesn't allow for private health care plans.

The union is mostly made up of brown and black women with a large immigrant contingent amongst them.

There is no space for anything outside of what Bernie's said in their (Bros) minds, and they're toxic as fuck, that's part of why I am going so hard against him and his campaign: his fucking followers are the worst!

[neanderthal]

Listen to him showing the seeds of division here. (https://twitter.com/AlxThomp/status/1227771448082780161?s=19)

He's planting the seed in people's minds that if he's not the nominee, ... then something is afoot.

[drew]

Benghazi!

[neanderthal]

This (https://twitter.com/DaytimeDan/status/1227709573953355777?s=19) tweet just says it all.

Berner's: making (their version of) perfect the enemy of good in every campaign.

[Tom Servo]

I'll never get that "I want to keep my fought-for health insurance" vs. just having Medicare-for-all. I mean, I get not wanting to lose the insurance if it meant you wouldn't have insurance, but in the meantime this is now a private insurer that you'll lose if you leave your job and, in my experience, will be quite likely to do things like claim that some person involved in your car wasn't in network and refuse to cover it. Health insurance right now is such a scam that I don't understand why anybody who doesn't directly profit off of it wants to keep the status quo.

[MR2 Fan]

Health insurance right now is such a scam that I don't understand why anybody who doesn't directly profit off of it wants to keep the status quo.

Because people are gullible and really thought that they'd set up death reviews to see if government funded healthcare would mean they decide whether you're worth medicating or letting you die.....nevermind that health care companies are leaving people bankrupt for the rest of their lives if they do choose to get healthcare and it doesn't always mean they're getting the best treatment either.'

I realized it's kind of like a car accident. A good samaritan comes to help you but they also tell you that if they help you now, you have to pay them $500 a month for the next 30 years. That's what living in the US is like, sometimes even WITH employer funded healthcare and you need an ER visit.

[Tom Servo]

Totally. The feared death panels exist, only right now they're executives at Anthem.

We recently got our surprise medical bill after a minor surgery my wife had. Doctor and hospital are both in network, but wouldn't you know that the anesthesiologist wasn't, so insurance didn't cover any of that!

At least if there was Medicare-for-all we could get rid of this asinine in-and-out-of-network business.

[FaultyMario]

Today in NobodyLikesBernie: American Federation of Musicians, Los Angeles Endorses Bernie Sanders for President (https://www.afm47.org/press/afm47-endorses-bernie-sanders-2020-primary/).


The decision to support Sen. Sanders arrived from a member-driven process in which AFM Local 47 musicians organized a political forum to hear from and speak directly with senior campaign officials. Musicians found Sanders to be the candidate best able to champion the priorities and values of the musicians union:

Protecting Pensions: [...]

Union Support: Sanders has supported working people throughout his career, which has garnered him the most union endorsements of all candidates, and Local 47 is proud to join some of our closest allies with its support.

Tax Credit Accountability: Sanders supports our calls to ensure that tax credit dollars are promoting good jobs for musicians in the U.S., not allowing taxpayer-subsidized music jobs to be sent overseas.

Labor Rights/Worker Power: Sanders has committed to doubling union membership, allowing sectoral bargaining, requiring worker representation on corporate boards, and repealing harmful provisions of the Taft-Hartley Act.

[Crazed_Insanity]

With regard to healthcare, I think it should be understandable why some might be skeptical about M4A.

1) GOP can take it away from you whenever they have power.

2) when was the last time a govt run organization end up doing its job well? Efficient and effective? Can you imagine we can ONLY have US Postal Service and nothing else forever and ever?

Anyway, to continue using mail services as example, currently, USPS are only accessible to seniors. For the rest us, we can only mail stuffs at work and it’s costing both us and the employers way too much money. Current way for sure sucks and will soon suck us all dry if we don’t try something else.

Of course this mail analogy isn’t quite right. Bernie’s not going into the healthcare business. Only the payment part of it.

Still, is our social security program well run so far? That’s also a much simpler program to manage. Just take money from the working young and give it to the older folks who need the money. As simple as it sounds, we still hear constant threats about program running out of money...

So this is a freaking complicated problem. Dems need to ease each other’s fears 1st rather than insisting who’s plan won’t work. End goal is to have affordable healthcare for all somehow. Surely there’s no one and only way to that goal. Work together to get there. We’ll never get there if all we do is attack each other’s plans.

[Jason]

I'll never get that "I want to keep my fought-for health insurance" vs. just having Medicare-for-all. I mean, I get not wanting to lose the insurance if it meant you wouldn't have insurance, but in the meantime this is now a private insurer that you'll lose if you leave your job and, in my experience, will be quite likely to do things like claim that some person involved in your car wasn't in network and refuse to cover it. Health insurance right now is such a scam that I don't understand why anybody who doesn't directly profit off of it wants to keep the status quo.


Absolutely agree with you.

[Jason]

With regard to healthcare, I think it should be understandable why some might be skeptical about M4A.

1) GOP can take it away from you whenever they have power.

2) when was the last time a govt run organization end up doing its job well? Efficient and effective? Can you imagine we can ONLY have US Postal Service and nothing else forever and ever?

Anyway, to continue using mail services as example, currently, USPS are only accessible to seniors. For the rest us, we can only mail stuffs at work and it’s costing both us and the employers way too much money. Current way for sure sucks and will soon suck us all dry if we don’t try something else.

Of course this mail analogy isn’t quite right. Bernie’s not going into the healthcare business. Only the payment part of it.

Still, is our social security program well run so far? That’s also a much simpler program to manage. Just take money from the working young and give it to the older folks who need the money. As simple as it sounds, we still hear constant threats about program running out of money...

So this is a freaking complicated problem. Dems need to ease each other’s fears 1st rather than insisting who’s plan won’t work. End goal is to have affordable healthcare for all somehow. Surely there’s no one and only way to that goal. Work together to get there. We’ll never get there if all we do is attack each other’s plans.

1) It’s political suicide to outright take services away from people after they have it. Otherwise Medicare/Medicaid would already be dead. They might fuck with it in trying to lower taxes, and harming funding, but I highly doubt they’d kill it outright if/when they got back into power. But maybe I’m naive.

2) Plenty of government services work well, we just don’t think about it because they “just work”. The only time we hear about government services is when it’s not going well.

[Crazed_Insanity]

1) It's all early stages... everything is in a state of flux. GOP is still threatening Obamacare and Bernie now has M4A. The fear is due to these early stage uncertainties. Of course, once it's really set, then such fears will go away. At the moment the negotiated healthcare is a sure thing. M4A is just not a sure thing on multiple levels. That's why there are fears. We need to address such fears 1st... and then work together toward a plan.

2) Can you help me remember which government organization worked out exceptionally well? WH is dysfunctional. Congress is dysfuctional. Even our supremet court is kinda dysfunctional. Those are at the very top level. On consumer side, I think the existence of UPS, Fedex, Amazon actually improved USPS a bit, but not sure if USPS is financially well. Also I think DMV services is the ultimate example of what government organizations are like. Looking at those mission oriented organizations... Pentagon, NASA... are they building better things at lower prices? Regulatory agencies... SEC, FAA all doing their jobs? Isn't it like across the board below averages results? Which government organization/program is doing well in your opinion? Maybe you can see things differently from DC? I guess what I would like to know is that are there more government organizations/programs that worked as intended or are there more dysfunctional/inefficient ones? My observations would lead me to later. Are my observations incorrect? If my observations are correct, then it adds risks and more fears to M4A. If my observations are incorrect, then we can show the american people these observations to further help them ease their minds.

Bottomline is that there are more fear than hope.

Bernie campaign is just not generating enough hope compared to the Obama campaign. (mainstream media is compounding this problem too!)

Nevertheless, I still trust him more than the corporate centrists. Continuing the status quo dem establishment way like before is obviously the wrong way to go. You'll only end up paving the way for Trump II. I'm willing to give Bernie a chance to try something different.

Anyway, my point is that different can be scary to a lot of people. More hope and less fear would be a nice motivation for change.

[FaultyMario]

1) It’s political suicide to outright take services away from people after they have it. Otherwise Medicare/Medicaid would already be dead. They might fuck with it in trying to lower taxes, and harming funding, but I highly doubt they’d kill it outright if/when they got back into power. But maybe I’m naive.


Imagine the outrage if they wanted to privatize National Parks. Which I'm sure has crossed their minds.

[Tom Servo]

They already did that with the various food/hospitality services in the parks. When they tried to change contractors in Yosemite, the previous company claimed that their contract had given them the rights to all the names of the places and they would have to change all of them.

They did for a while, but apparently they've finally settled with the old vendor and the old names are back.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/yosemite-national-park-name-changes/index.html

[neanderthal]

I composed a nice long response that detailed some of the benefits they have, a 24 hour health clinic where they get free health, dental and vision, and really low set prices for an ER visit, births, broken bone, etc, but my phone didn't post it.

I'll have to use the website form, rather than the mobile platform, in future.

Anyway, Sanders, on the attacks being carried out on members of the culinary union "sometimes people carry out attacks on other people's name." :rolleyes:

[FaultyMario]

That's what happened. At least that's what I read, there were some impostors. But it wasn't clear to me on which side.

[Jason]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/local/school-bullying-trump-words/

I know you want to focus on demonizing progressives, but this should be the focus, imo.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Are you talking to me or Neanderthal?

I’m a actually a supporter of progressives. Neanderthal is not.

I don’t think anyone here is a trump supporter though. Not sure what’s the point of the link?

[edit]Oh, focusing on beating Trump...

[neanderthal]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/local/school-bullying-trump-words/

I know you want to focus on demonizing progressives, but this should be the focus, imo.

I'm assuming that's directed at me.

I'm the guy telling "fuck Trump" all the time. My focus is not just getting rid of Trump and his sycophants, but also on highlighting the divisions being caused by the tea party left.

Right now we have two former Republicans and one independent as three of the leading four candidates left in our Democratic primary. Because the looney left attacked Kamala from the get, branded her a cop, repeated and disseminated false things about her, and basically ran her out of town.
Those same things have happened to Liz now: mischaracterisations and outright lies repeated and parrotted to all the world. She's being targeted because while she wasn't the strong threat that Kamala was, at this point she's collecting the attention and money of the same liberal base that is attracted to Bernie's ideas. Her followers can easily fall into the Bernie camp: their platforms are *very* similar. But she's dangerous because she's intelligent, likable, and capable. So she's being targeted.

Attention and donor funds directed at, ... less credible candidates, pushing Beto, Booker and Castro out. All because they pose a threat, weak or strong, to Bernie.

In a big field, Kamala in particular was targeted because if she got the black women voters then everything after south Carolina and super Tuesday likely would have gone to her.
Now it's picking off the rest one by one, while repeating "vote blue no matter who" as a mantra representing our unity.
Pete has been a surprise. He was initially propped up by media and the left as another diversion to distract from the string candidates, witness his ability to stay in the race even when his record was brought under a microscope and it reflected badly on him. A hidden hand was at work, keeping him in, talking him up etc.

Anyway it's almost 2am. I'm focused on removing Trump and prosecuting him and every single one of his enablers.

I'm not unaware of the divisive left and I'll continue to call them out. If they are [u]serious[/s] about getting rid of Trump then, honestly, they need to get off the Bernie train and get behind another candidate. Why do they need to get out from behind their favored candidate?

Because dude. just. had. a. heart. attack. Like two months ago. And he's old as fuck. That's just reality.

Fixing Trump's mess is gonna take two terms of a strong candidate. Bernie doesn't have that in him.

And he *sucks* at coalition building.

That's just the facts.

[neanderthal]

Are you talking to me or Neanderthal?

I’m a actually a supporter of progressives. Neanderthal is not.

I don’t think anyone here is a trump supporter though. Not sure what’s the point of the link?

[edit]Oh, focusing on beating Trump...

The fuck?!?!?!

Actually, sir, you'll find I support progressives: when they're not busy attacking the Democrats. :smh:

[Rikadyn]

So you don't support progressives

[Jason]

Soooo, we’re still not going to talk about Trump normalizing racism and hate speech among kids, and the damage that’s going to do for generations?

Cool.

[Yw-slayer]

I find it hilarious how your President is attacking his own A-G and Department of Justice.

[neanderthal]

So you don't support progressives

Clever. ;)

I said what I said. I support progressives who don't attack Democrats.


(I'm glad you noticed that all self proclaimed progressives have a penchant for attacking Democrats.)

[Tom Servo]

Soooo, we’re still not going to talk about Trump normalizing racism and hate speech among kids, and the damage that’s going to do for generations?

Cool.

I honestly don't know what to say about it. I mean, he started his campaign with it and has been doing it ever since, so I guess it didn't strike me as new information.

[neanderthal]

Soooo, we’re still not going to talk about Trump normalizing racism and hate speech among kids, and the damage that’s going to do for generations?

Cool.

No. Not cool.

This is what Trump had done: he's normalised abhorrent behaviour and lowered our standards of decency. This is the new normal.

In the days immediately after the election (maybe it was inauguration) I wrote a post about the experiences of a family member at college.

I have not forgotten. It's why I fight name and shame the dividers. Getting rid of Trump is/ should be our, collective, paramount goal.

But, we mustn't focus on that to the exclusion of Senate seats, house seats, governorships, local and state seats.

This is where i fear the divisions will get us: we win the white house but don't take back state legislatures, or worse, the Senate.

My methods are not the best methods. There are no best methods for doing what I'm doing: I'm trying to call out the sowers of division, and the are those who say just doing that is divisive. How then, do we? Because, to me, there isn't time to be gentle and caring in this mission. The need, the depravity, is too great. There's kids in cages for fuxsakes! We need immediate collective action and cause.

Then again, we are the country that has NOT reckoned with our own abhorrent past.

And there are those who will sit out the election if their pet cause/ politician isn't on the ballot, because it's consequences won't harm them. I can't coddle their feelings.

Fuck Trump. Fuck the GOP. Fuck their supporters.

[Edit] and fuck dividers like Bernie Sanders, Cenk, Bloomberg, et al

[Crazed_Insanity]

It's kind funny that the looney progressive left believe in conspiracy theories of establishment democrats use the mainstream media, rigged primary processes to deny the progressive candidates namely Bernie, Andrew and Tulsi.

It's even funnier when there are actually democrats who believe the progressives have enough power to influence the democratic primary process unfairly. If grass root support is bad, maybe it's time for the establishment to mow the lawn and make the grass even shorter and shut them up. Nobody really like these Russian assets anyway. Stop it with the opened primary and just kick them independents out. It's quite a simple solution really. Please don't pretend to be such an opened and diverse party when you are actually not. If you truly want to embrace openness and diversity, you need to embrace these progressive candidates. Then there'd be no need for those stupid Bernie Bros.

BTW, please also note that the DNC held its ground when it comes to debate rules earlier on... even when all other candidates signed a petition to alter rules a bit to allow for Booker to be on the debate stage.

And then when a rich white dude comes along... all of a sudden without any petitions, DNC decided to bend over backwards for Bloomberg.

Isn't it obvious? White rich lives matter more.

I think key to Obama's success was that he didn't really play any race cards and was still able to out perform the other white woman candidate.

I'm not really sure why Booker's bid failed so badly... I don't recall anybody attacking him nor did he attack anybody else like Kamala and Julian did. He also had lots of speaking time during debates. I think the only reason he dropped out was that he just didn't have enough grass root support... and he didn't have enough establishment support. Establishment money were used to bet on Biden and Pete. Had Booker held on like Amy did, maybe he could pull a surprise performance too? But since Biden needed black votes, it probably wasn't a good idea to keep him in the race... So, sorry Booker!

Anyway, I think one thing I'm glad to see is that I think liberals are now starting to dislike all the woke, cancel culture, identity politics. It was fine when Kamala used 'busing' to kick Biden's ass once. But when it becomes clear that's all Kamala has, without anything substantive, people got turned off by her. Likewise with Julian. He served with Biden in the Obama admin. What right does he have to be critical of Biden? Why not just emphasize on what you are planning to bring on the table? My guess is that Warren's demise was caused by the same thing. Trying to paint Bernie as a sexist and a liar. She should've just focus on her plans and beat Bernie with her better plans.

It's not all Bernie bros' fault. Voters are not stupid. As far as I know, Bernie never attacked his democratic 'friends' like that. He'd only debate on substance. Blaming Bernie because of Bernie Bro is like blaming Jesus Christ because of stupid Christians.

[FaultyMario]

The year is 2020, and actual Nazis have been marching in the streets.

Who do you want leading the fight? A bunch of fragile whiners who can't handle a mean tweet or a Progressive Army of roughnecks who'll not only win the election but will get in the streets if we have to?
##

[neanderthal]

It's kind funny that the looney progressive left believe in conspiracy theories of establishment democrats use the mainstream media, rigged primary processes to deny the progressive candidates namely Bernie, Andrew and Tulsi.

It's even funnier when there are actually democrats who believe the progressives have enough power to influence the democratic primary process unfairly. If grass root support is bad, maybe it's time for the establishment to mow the lawn and make the grass even shorter and shut them up. Nobody really like these Russian assets anyway. Stop it with the opened primary and just kick them independents out. It's quite a simple solution really. Please don't pretend to be such an opened and diverse party when you are actually not. If you truly want to embrace openness and diversity, you need to embrace these progressive candidates. Then there'd be no need for those stupid Bernie Bros.

BTW, please also note that the DNC held its ground when it comes to debate rules earlier on... even when all other candidates signed a petition to alter rules a bit to allow for Booker to be on the debate stage.

And then when a rich white dude comes along... all of a sudden without any petitions, DNC decided to bend over backwards for Bloomberg.

Isn't it obvious? White rich lives matter more.

I think key to Obama's success was that he didn't really play any race cards and was still able to out perform the other white woman candidate.

I'm not really sure why Booker's bid failed so badly... I don't recall anybody attacking him nor did he attack anybody else like Kamala and Julian did. He also had lots of speaking time during debates. I think the only reason he dropped out was that he just didn't have enough grass root support... and he didn't have enough establishment support. Establishment money were used to bet on Biden and Pete. Had Booker held on like Amy did, maybe he could pull a surprise performance too? But since Biden needed black votes, it probably wasn't a good idea to keep him in the race... So, sorry Booker!

Anyway, I think one thing I'm glad to see is that I think liberals are now starting to dislike all the woke, cancel culture, identity politics. It was fine when Kamala used 'busing' to kick Biden's ass once. But when it becomes clear that's all Kamala has, without anything substantive, people got turned off by her. Likewise with Julian. He served with Biden in the Obama admin. What right does he have to be critical of Biden? Why not just emphasize on what you are planning to bring on the table? My guess is that Warren's demise was caused by the same thing. Trying to paint Bernie as a sexist and a liar. She should've just focus on her plans and beat Bernie with her better plans.

It's not all Bernie bros' fault. Voters are not stupid. As far as I know, Bernie never attacked his democratic 'friends' like that. He'd only debate on substance. Blaming Bernie because of Bernie Bro is like blaming Jesus Christ because of stupid Christians.

bold. billi stays ignorant and indulges in it like a pig in a mudbath. I bet he never actually went to Kamala, Booker or Castro's websites and read their platforms. Or Hillary's. That plays to type. It makes it easy to regurgitate lies and mischaracterisations.

I like how he says we need to be nice to people hijacking our party. No. We don't.

It is all the bros' fault. The third party voters. The "i'll vote for trump as a joke" ... progressives. The i'll write in the name of a dead gorilla ... progressives. The "i'll propagate false information about Hillary throughout out the election complain about the establishment, do everything I can to prevent her being elected, then complain about the Democratic party's inefficacy, but never criticise President Voldemort and his minions" ... progressives. With allies like these you get your friendly weekly backstabbing while you're busy trying to undo orange Cheetolini and the trumpanzees. No, we don't need allies like these.

Oh, and stupid hypocritical christians are literally the reason I don't go to church.

[neanderthal]

And fuck Trump and his supporters.

[FaultyMario]

Best Coast Represent!


To anyone aggrieved when barbarians run roughshod over the law, the smackdown of the prosecutors in the Stone case rings like a death knell for an independent Department of Justice. It confirmed Barr as nothing but a butler to the squalling Trump, adding to his cover-up of the true contents of the Mueller report, which, guess what, did not exonerate the president.


Damage is, finally, done. And it is a harm that goes beyond legalities, it has surpassed all limits of political behavior, this will surely have repercussions in the social sphere [...] As the Bible-tweeting Republican Senator from Florida, Marco Rubio, cynically said about the process against Trump: "Just because (Trump's) actions fullfill the standards of repossession, it doesn't mean that it is in the nation's best interest to remove the President". That is, Trump's actions merit his removal as the Constitution foresees it, but it won't be done because it doesn't suit the coward politicians who do not want to face the hosts supporting their chieftain.

[FaultyMario]

Today in NobodyLikesBernie:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQwh5SMUUAAAh6Q.png


https://news.yahoo.com/new-yahoo-news-you-gov-poll-shows-sanderss-strength-going-head-to-head-with-rivals-181522968.html

[Crazed_Insanity]

This chart makes me feel good... to see Bloomberg rated so poorly amongst other candidates...

However, I have to question how true this chart is though... because it's showing Mayor Pete not doing very well against other candidates too.

Reality is that he is currently leading the field...

So not sure if these surveys can be trusted... or perhaps elections are just rigged or hacked somehow?

[FaultyMario]

Mayo Pete is pretending to lead the field in unrepresentative Midwestern states.

[Tom Servo]

There's still plenty of true believers, but I'm heartened by the number of QAnon folks I'm seeing that are suddenly starting to question whether it's all bullshit after the DOJ has decided against pursuing charges against Andrew McCabe. He was one of their big targets.

[Jason]

There's still plenty of true believers, but I'm heartened by the number of QAnon folks I'm seeing that are suddenly starting to question whether it's all bullshit after the DOJ has decided against pursuing charges against Andrew McCabe. He was one of their big targets.

The problem with these folks is they’ll find a way to spin and squirm around until something else fits their worldview, just give it time.

[Tom Servo]

No doubt, but somehow this one has coalesced more people into it than most. Just saw the stat that at least 28 people so far have run or are running for congress that have openly stated their belief in the whole Q thing. We've had crazy conspiracies for years, but I'm not aware of, say, flat-earthers running for federal office.

[JoshInKC]

Mayo Pete is pretending to lead the field in unrepresentative Midwestern states.

Yeah, I'm fairly confused by the weird buttigieg surge(?) I hadn't heard anybody talking about him seriously for some weeks before the iowa caucuses. And I'm theoretically located in his(?) territory - But Sanders, Warren, and even Klobucher are much more in the zeitgeist as far as I can tell.

[MR2 Fan]

We've had crazy conspiracies for years, but I'm not aware of, say, flat-earthers running for federal office.

This is actually surprising to me that we haven't had one of those yet

[neanderthal]

When James Woods is basically endorsing (https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1228393130354860032?s=19) Bernie[/url] what does that say?

[Tom Servo]

Bloomberg's basically Trump except that he believes in climate change: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/michael-bloomberg-women/

[neanderthal]

2016: Super PACs have got to go.
Democrats run out of money
2020: How we end up with Bloomberg ...

[neanderthal]

"progressives ..." (https://twitter.com/sppeoples/status/1228350529056727040?s=19) :|

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neanderthal, I have to unignore you for a minute.

May I ask, who should we all vote for this time? Can you utilize your amazing googling skillz and show us the light. Some positive light, enough of this negative shit already.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Bloomberg's basically Trump except that he believes in climate change: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/michael-bloomberg-women/

Can’t read that article and I’m too cheap to pay...

If the dems eventually nominate mike, I hope enough of you would quit the dem party and I hope we can finally have a major 3rd party.

Hope the other side could split too. Republican Party and a new grab them by the pussy party.