Politics

[Crazed_Insanity]

Meh, meh...

I’ve faced harsher attacks than that.

Some dude over here on the forum thought that I’d make a worse president than Trump! Man, I was like totally gutted and offended and disgusted! That went way over the line man!

At least Sanders has proven Hillary wrong. It’s not true that nobody likes him. Enough people like him to make the establishment nervous. :p

[FaultyMario]

Public Enemy fans are mad that politics have split up the band.

Seriously, fans of a band whose one of their bigger hits is "Fight the Power".

In spite of the fact that, as it often happens, it was money which drove its members apart.

[21Kid]

Look (https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1234519582007812098?s=19) at how disgusting the Bros are.

And Bernie's response when asked bout was a meh, all campaigns have those.

I have no idea who that is...
Was there more than just this one tweet?

[Crazed_Insanity]

It don’t really matter what her emails are or who his bros are.

Actually Biden should thank the bro who brought him a coffin which helped energized his campaign!

[neanderthal]

I have no idea who that is...
Was there more than just this one tweet?

There've been others.
The hatred and malice of the first 3 tweets, followed by the "join our campaign for Bernie" is a stunning turnaround.

[neanderthal]

It don’t really matter what her emails are or who his bros are.

Actually Biden should thank the bro who brought him a coffin which helped energized his campaign!

:eek: :smh:

As ever, you remain quite the cunt.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don’t understand, wasn’t I telling the truth?

The strategy works, it doesn’t matter what’s in the emails nor does it matter who those bros are. They could be genuine overly zealous sanders supporters or they could be tweeters for hire, how can we know?

Also, impeachment has proven to energize trump supporters... so I think that coffin probably worked out similarly and helped put Biden right back in the game.

Why do you have to call me names for simply bringing you this very reasonable political analysis? You Kamala bro! :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

Very anxious to see the final results of super tuesday...

Will we maintain status quo or start a revolution? We will soon find out!

[Jason]

Its like 95% likely Biden wins, or is selected during the convention.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I disagree. Maybe 94% chance... at most! :p

If Biden does win, my only hope is that he'll at least pretend to be more opened to the progressives by running along side a more progressive VP... not to be like Hillary and go all out with neo-liberalism.

If Biden picks Andrew Yang as VP, I could definitely vote for him with great enthusiasm. Otherwise it'll just be a meh vote.

[Crazed_Insanity]

BTW, I think I can make up my mind about Elisabeth Warren after super tuesday.

Back in 2016, she didn't endorse Bernie.

Now in 2020, she's performing worse than Mayer Pete both in terms of delegate counts and money raised and yet she is still in the race. Supposedly a progressive, but doing great damage to the progressive cause.

She's more interested in advancing her own career than advancing whatever causes. Luckily she has no chance of winning the nomination... because if she were the eventual nominee, I would not vote for her at this point. She just changes her mind way too much for me to figure out where she really stands. If she continues to be non-viable yet choose to suck away votes from Bernie all the way to the convention, I'll have to put her on my shit list and never vote for her again.

[Tom Servo]

I voted for Warren and am glad she's still in the race.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It's always a good strategy to vote for the person you like the best.

I think I would've voted for Andrew Yang if he were still in the race, but considering what has transpired... I'm not sure if I'd be too glad about doing that though...

[21Kid]

I'm really surprised that Warren hasn't received more support in the early states. I see a lot of friends supporting her.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Vox has an article for that!

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/3/21162527/what-happened-to-elizabeth-warren

Warren is mostly popular with white college educated voters. Massachusetts is a state filled with such voters, but sadly most of America does not.

As for early states, I do believe Pete and Amy stole quite a bit of white college educated voters away from Warren in NH.

Super Tuesday should be able to showcase Warren's true strength. She should be able to have a more significant support in CA.

Racial and education profiling aside, my personal dislike is growing because I have doubts about whether if she's really that progressive... If she drops out of the race, who will she endorse? Most likely not the sexist pig Sanders. I'll change my mind if in the end she endorses Sanders, but based on my observations, she does appear to be a progressive in disguise.

[Jason]

I gladly voted for Warren in the primary.

[Crazed_Insanity]

White college grads unite!

Let's see if this could end up a 3 horse race between Biden, Sanders and Warren. Hope the 4th bloomberg horse chokes!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Looks like Bloomberg might do better than Warren... finishing 3rd in her own state is not helping...

Will CA surprise and boost her? If not, she’d be nuts to keep going...

[Jason]

The progressive vote has already been split to the point of assuring the moderates won. I know my vote was part of the problem, but at the end of the day I thought she was the best candidate, so I cast my vote for her.

Biden will be a fine candidate, he's a bit of a bumbling idiot, but he's well meaning, and believes in government doing good. He'll be a MASSIVE improvement over Trump and I'll gladly vote for him in the general.

[FaultyMario]

Why would He succeed where Hillary failed? He's a worse version of her.

[FaultyMario]

#SuperTuesday

H. Biden wins Ukraine primary.

[21Kid]

Why would He succeed where Hillary failed? He's a worse version of her.

That's what I'm worried about also

[Tom Servo]

I have hopes seeing the high turnout numbers that he might succeed in that dems might actually show up to vote. Who knows, but my hope is that people take the threat of Trump a little more seriously this time than in 2016.

[Jason]

Why would He succeed where Hillary failed? He's a worse version of her.

Two possibilities:

Clinton fatigue - A lot of the middle of the country is tired of US “royalty”, Clintons, Bushes, Kennedys, etc.

Sexism - Self explanatory

[Jason]

I have hopes seeing the high turnout numbers that he might succeed in that dems might actually show up to vote. Who knows, but my hope is that people take the threat of Trump a little more seriously this time than in 2016.

Hope: Big anti Trump turnout. 2016, I feel like a lot of people “knew” Clinton was going to win, and stayed home.

Fear: The Biden-Ukraine non-issue will be turned into a HUGE issue by Trump, and Trump will use his DOJ to fuck with the election.

[MR2 Fan]

Imagine a Biden vs Trump debate....it would be a word salad shitshow

[Crazed_Insanity]

Two possibilities:

Clinton fatigue - A lot of the middle of the country is tired of US “royalty”, Clintons, Bushes, Kennedys, etc.

Sexism - Self explanatory

Yes. Royalty is essentially another word to establishment.

Joe Biden is not really royalty but almost close enough. Hunter Biden is almost a prince otherwise why would Ukrainians be interested in his services?

If America can overcome racism and vote a black man into WH, im sure sexism won’t be an issue. Warren could easily beat Biden or Bloomberg if there’s no sanders.

Remember when Obama won, he was the young, progressive type who couldn’t care less about status quo and it was his ability to energize the young which helped him kicked Hillary’s ass and the republicans. Even Bill Clinton was also the underdog antiestablishment and anti-rich Perot candidate. It’s amazing how DNC can’t remember their recipe for success.

Also, impeachment trial has already demonstrated that in a match up between Biden and trump, trumps gonna win and democratic establishment won’t be able to do jack shit.

Anyway, there’s still a long road ahead of the nomination process. Who’ll eventually win is still up in the air... as far as I’m concerned, sanders still has at least 6% chance of beating Biden! ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Imagine a Biden vs Trump debate....it would be a word salad shitshow

Either way, it’ll be good for the late night comedians... :D

[neanderthal]

More Berner's reveling on the thought of ruining the Democratic party. (https://twitter.com/connorshepherd/status/1234862705250426880?s=19)

[neanderthal]

Billi

Here's a twitter thread (https://twitter.com/AdrianCJax/status/827713706704375808?s=19) with receipts on Bernie. It's a few years old, but I found it today.


There's plenty of reading.

Basically, a bro cane after Adrian, and Adrian has bags and bags of receipts.

Since of the stuff since then had been clarified, like how he's fund his Medicare for all plan. But, goes to show that he went in with half baked plans and empty promises more than real tangible promises.

[Crazed_Insanity]

There are lots of deleted tweets and made it hard to read.

Can we just leave other bros out and talk to each other?

What do you think kamala or Julian would do for healthcare?

We as a nation can print unlimited money for wars and banks when they’re in need, but dems all of a sudden become fiscally conservative when average Americans are in need for basic healthcare? Can’t afford it? Yeah right.

And if dem establishment is so good at getting things done, when will Obamacare get the job done?

[neanderthal]

So, what you're saying is you're refusing to elucidate yourself. :?

But you want to have a discussion with me? :erm:

That's comical. Especially considering I read most of the links you post. What discussion could we possibly have when you refuse to entertain or even consider the faults and foibles of your beloved St Bernie?

What would Kamala or Julian do for healthcare? Simple. Improve what we have right now.
we as a nation <snip> bla bla blah Can't afford it? This is why you need to read. REPUBLICANS are the ones who go to war with our tax money. Democrats got us ACA. Don't conflate the Republicans opposition to Obamacare and it's being reduced from what it was intended to be, with wars declared by Republicans.
when will Obamacare get the job done? When fucking progressives stop attacking Democrats AND VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS so we can get the Republicans out of the white house, congress and senate, and actually implement change. No, not a revolution. That's not gonna happen.

Now go back and read those links in that twitter feed. Deleted tweets means there's less to read!

[Crazed_Insanity]

More Berner's reveling on the thought of ruining the Democratic party. (https://twitter.com/connorshepherd/status/1234862705250426880?s=19)
This one is completely deleted right? So nothing for me to read...

I’ll try to read the other one...

[Rikadyn]

More Berner's reveling on the thought of ruining the Democratic party. (https://twitter.com/connorshepherd/status/1234862705250426880?s=19)

Inshallah

[FaultyMario]

Inshallah

Alhamdulillah.

[Jason]

It boggles my mind that we as a country (all Republicans, and over half of Democrats) believe in saddling people with medical debts, education debts, and a polluted world. I get that Biden is better than Trump, he'll bring stability to the office again, but going back to the Obama era isn't actual progress.

Oh well.

Also, I'm more than a little afraid of what Trump's DOJ is gonna do to the Bidens leading up to the general. Hopefully they have all their ducks in a row, so to not give Republicans anymore ammo.

[Jason]

Imagine a Biden vs Trump debate....it would be a word salad shitshow

Biden confused his sister for his wife last night. Which I guess is better than trying to fuck your own daughter, but still. Two dudes who can't put together coherent messages debating, this is going to be great.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It boggles my mind that we as a country (all Republicans, and over half of Democrats) believe in saddling people with medical debts, education debts, and a polluted world. I get that Biden is better than Trump, he'll bring stability to the office again, but going back to the Obama era isn't actual progress.

Oh well.

Also, I'm more than a little afraid of what Trump's DOJ is gonna do to the Bidens leading up to the general. Hopefully they have all their ducks in a row, so to not give Republicans anymore ammo.

Exactly my sentiments.

Anyway, it ain’t over yet... I hope.

[Jason]

Bloomberg out, endorsed Biden. At least part of the party is unifying.

[Tom Servo]

My favorite part of the night was Trump repeatedly sending out bragging tweets about winning the Republican primary in various states. He even beat Zoltan!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Back to Elizabeth Warren, our supposedly unity candidate, in the event that nobody won the majority, do you guys really believe the broker convention will work in her favor? Will the party and the voters really be happy to reach a compromise to unite the party and end up nominating a 3rd place finisher?

Anyway, I suppose if we look at it from another perspective..., if Tulsi is still in it, why can't Warren, right? ;) I wonder if Tulsi can finally now qualify for the next debate now that she's won 1 delegate... Fucking asshole... that's 1 delegate that could've gone to Sanders! :angry: I love Tulsi actually..., but she really should drop out. Wonder where she got her money to go on... Why would even the Russians continue to financially support her?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Billi

Here's a twitter thread (https://twitter.com/AdrianCJax/status/827713706704375808?s=19) with receipts on Bernie. It's a few years old, but I found it today.


There's plenty of reading.

Basically, a bro cane after Adrian, and Adrian has bags and bags of receipts.

Since of the stuff since then had been clarified, like how he's fund his Medicare for all plan. But, goes to show that he went in with half baked plans and empty promises more than real tangible promises.

Neanderthal, there are a lot of black voters like you saying similar things as you in that twitter thread. I didn't quite find anything about how Sander's gonna fund his M4A plan in that thread(it's a long thread... if you see it can you just quote it?)

However, I am interested in figuring out how Biden(Or kamala or whoever you like) gave black people real promises and Sander gave black people empty promises? I'm interested in figuring out exactly where Sanders went wrong with the black folks.

[neanderthal]

It boggles my mind that we as a country (all Republicans, and over half of Democrats) believe in saddling people with medical debts, education debts, and a polluted world. I get that Biden is better than Trump, he'll bring stability to the office again, but going back to the Obama era isn't actual progress.

Oh well.

Also, I'm more than a little afraid of what Trump's DOJ is gonna do to the Bidens leading up to the general. Hopefully they have all their ducks in a row, so to not give Republicans anymore ammo.

I think you can say that about the Republicans. Saying it about the Democrats though, is putting words in their mouths. I believe the establishment/ centrists do want universal healthcare, but are aware that getting that through two chambers with current numbers of republicans in them ISN'T going to happen. And Bernie isn't going to help that to change; almost every candidate he endorsed in the mid terms lost.
I'm pretty sure every Democratic nominee's healthcare plan was eventually going to be universal healthcare, but couched in the reality that republicans will do everything they can to prevent that, their plans were incremental with a graduated progression towards UH/ M4A. Which is how a M4A plan would have to work anyway!

If Bernie is sworn in tomorrow, there is NO WAY that M4A is in effect the next day. There are millions of people who work in the medical field, many of them for insurance companies. Are they out of a job tomorrow? Is the ... ministry of health (what the hell is it called?) expanded ten fold tomorrow, to accommodate the influx of new patients to this new plan? Are all doctors billing systems now taking M4A, because there are doctors who only take private insurance so that they don't deal with the slow pace of payment from government insurance. Are the costs of the heart transplant all the same tomorrow, across the country?

Long story short, there is NO WAY any M4A plan can be put in place immediately, which Bernie has led people to believe will happen. Same for student debt. Same for so many things! So if it going to be a graduated rollout, how is it different from the plans Julian or Kamala had? Theirs were based on reality.

Now, that's not to say that the healthcare system can't be turned over to M4A over night. It actually can. But it's going to require time to get all the pieces in place, get all the billings in place, standardise the rates charged for each procedure, get people hired to fill the new positions in the health department, get all the new contact information for the health department, train people how to use their system, probably upgrade their systems, get all the communication lines opened between all the medical providers and all the various offices handing billing for the health department, streamline/ centralise all the medical records, etc etc etc etc. In other words, many months, if not years. Then, with everything put in place, advertise widely that the change is happening on X day, pull the switch on that day. Which is far in the future. How is that different from what Kamala and Julian proposed; a plan that ended in UH/ M4A?

The biggest mistake progressives have made is over reaching by lining up behind the wrong candidate.

They coulda had a bad bitch in Liz Warren; she listens, she researches, she knows the topic backwards and forwards, she has answers to most of your questions, or can get them. She penned an article and got a whole department of government put in place. She can DO things. Bernie ain't done shit for forty years! Other than make big promises which turned out to be lacking in substance once deeply examined. (read the links on that twitter feed billi!) Only recently, in this presidential run, has the meat and flesh been put on the bones of many of his political plans. Hillary had all that last time. Her site is still up. (was?)

When you say "going back to the Obama years isn't actual progress," I think you're forgetting overlooking that the economy was CRASHING during the campaign. "The fundamentals of the economy are sound my friend" was said while companies were collapsing and shutting down. My brother couldn't get a job for most of a year. I had to support him and my dad alone.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he passed healthcare reform.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he passed Wall St reform.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he eliminated Osama bin Laden.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he repealed don't ask don't tell.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he reversed Bush' torture policies
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he passed the Lily Ledbeter fair pay act.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he put in place emissions standards that resulted in the closure of the most polluting power stations.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he passed credit card reform.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he increased vehicle fuel efficiency standards.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he passed the fair sentencing act.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he pulled our troops out of Iraq.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he drew down the number of troops in Afghanisan.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he gave the FDA power to regulate tobacco.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he incentivised investment in green technology.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he raised the standards for home energy use. I'm looking at buying a house in the near future, not even looking at anything older than ten years. The difference in insulation, energy efficiency, water efficiency, heating, cooling, lighting is vast!
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he, through his wife, improved school nutrition.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he cracked down on bad for profit colleges.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he expanded hate crime protection.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he implemented CHIP (Childrens Health Insurance Protection) through a higher tax on tobacco.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he killed the F22.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he balanced the budget.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he reduced the deficit.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he turned around the auto industry.
I think you're forgetting overlooking that he elevated Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court.

I think you're forgetting overlooking that he didn't have a scandal.

There's lots more. I wanted to provide links for these, and more, but I have to get ready for work.

[Jason]

I'm not forgetting any of that, I want to BUILD on that, not simply go back to it.

I think and Biden/Warren ticket would do that, as she'd be able to push for things like M4A, or a green new deal, with pragmatic transition plans.

Also, if centrist politicians actually supported M4A, they'd say so. Just because it's not realistic RIGHT NOW, doesn't mean you shouldn't continue to push the narrative needle, and work towards that goal. Hell, even Sanders acknowledged that there would be a transition period.

[Jason]

Example, saying things "employees love their insurance and don't want it taken away!" Is horseshit. No one cares about their insurance company, people care about their doctors, nurses, and hospitals, and if they can afford to continue to make use of them.

[Tom Servo]

Huh, LA County saying that voter turnout was only about 20%. Given the lines I saw yesterday, I think the new polling systems weren't working nearly as well as one might have hoped.

That said, they've also been open for the past 10 days and vote by mail is easy and free here, so...

[neanderthal]

Neanderthal, there are a lot of black voters like you saying similar things as you in that twitter thread. I didn't quite find anything about how Sander's gonna fund his M4A plan in that thread(it's a long thread... if you see it can you just quote it?)

However, I am interested in figuring out how Biden(Or kamala or whoever you like) gave black people real promises and Sander gave black people empty promises? I'm interested in figuring out exactly where Sanders went wrong with the black folks.

Julian and Kamala didn't over promise just about everything. Bernie is big promises, and nothing concrete. His record speaks for itself. I really don't understand why his record is not a stumbling block for more people. He. hasn't. done. shit. for. forty. years! Which is why black people aren't fooled by his act; we're pragmatic voters because we have to be. What you say must match with what you do or have done. Bernie ain't done shit.

Whereas you can examine the record of Kamala and Julian in their years in public office. Doers, not speakers.

[dodint]

Harris' record as a DA is exactly why I do not want her on the ballot. I'm pretty well locked in for Biden here but selecting her as VP would make me think twice.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I personally don't believe she could even win CA if she didn't drop out. Anyway...

I honestly really don't know much about Julian Castro, but I was immediately turned off by him when he started to attack Biden on the debate stage. They both served under Obama... was such attacks really necessary?

Anyway, Neanderthal, just as obamacare was obstructed by the republicans... I hope you can also understand that Bernie Sanders has been obstructed by both the republicans and the democrats. Bernie did do stuff. He fought the fight in Vermont and has been trying to move such fight to the national level. To say that he's just a speaker and no doer is like accusing Obama of not doing shit for Obamacare.


Huh, LA County saying that voter turnout was only about 20%. Given the lines I saw yesterday, I think the new polling systems weren't working nearly as well as one might have hoped.

That said, they've also been open for the past 10 days and vote by mail is easy and free here, so...

That is weird. For 20% of the voters, lines went around the block and they had to extend voting hours...

My gosh, what would happen if 100% of the voters turn out to vote?

I voted on Sunday, no long lines but steady stream of folks.

Anyway, hate to start anymore conspiracies, but such turn out rate makes absolutely no sense. In 2012 when Obama was running for reelection, turnout rate for registered voters were higher at 21%!!! And for this primary, I guess people just don't care whether if Biden or Sanders win... we just all know Trump will get reelected? Something smells fishy there.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think you're forgetting overlooking that he passed Wall St reform.
Let’s just focus on one on your list for now...

So exactly what was reformed that we can be reasonably sure that wall st won’t ever hijack the worlds economy again when shit hits he fan? Do we no longer have financial institutions that are too big to fail?

Also, black criminal could easily get shot before a trial. Even during the trial, he’ll most likely get the maximum sentencing for stealing perhaps a few bucks. If wall st was truly reformed, then I can probably say our criminal justice system has been reformed too.

Not a single white banker went to jail. Do you really believe wall st was properly reformed?

[Rikadyn]

Example, saying things "employees love their insurance and don't want it taken away!" Is horseshit. No one cares about their insurance company, people care about their doctors, nurses, and hospitals, and if they can afford to continue to make use of them.


It also makes employees dependant on their employer, it's another tool for the bourgeoisie to keep the proletariat from being free from their tyranny.

[Tom Servo]

I think some of it too comes from that same mentality of "I paid off my student loan, why should someone else get a free ride?" At least in the example I heard from the Nevada culinary union, a lot of it definitely came from that. The idea that someone would replace what they went on strike for 6+ years to get was just unthinkable, and it didn't seem to matter whether or not it was better than what they'd gotten or that it would mean that nobody else would have to go through the same thing.

[neanderthal]

Harris' record as a DA is exactly why I do not want her on the ballot. I'm pretty well locked in for Biden here but selecting her as VP would make me think twice.

I'm honestly all ears on her record, please elucidate me. I've looked at it closely, examined the issues at play and come to the conclusion that she has the right type of criminal justice background that I want to see in a jurist, prosecutor, or advocate. I want a dog catcher that does that job. A bus driver that does that job. A judge, that does that job. a brain surgeon, that does that job. a prosecutor, DA, or attorney general that does that job. First and formost.
I've heard a few people say what you've said, but i've never heard a single cogent answer on whether she shouldn't have done her job as a prosecutor, district attorney and attorney general. and please don't misunderstand me, i'm not saying that is what you're saying. I'm saying that those who i have engaged with on this haven't given me actual data, actual specifics that gave me pause.

The one that they throw around a lot is; she enforced policy that made parents go to jail for their children missing school. I don't have a problem with that. Send your damn kids to school so that they don't grow up and do things like vote for idiots like Trump. Or be a leech to society. Education is important for that child's future, and society's as well, which is why sending your children to school is not optional. There are exceptions made outside of homeschooling, but the cases have to be quite extreme. Not sending your kids to school is bad parenting! Kids who are more frequently truant end up in jail more than kids who aren't. They end up being repeat offenders more.
Also, this is important in bad neighborhoods, sending your kids to school is an indirect way of doing a welfare check on that kid. Good teachers in bad neighborhoods are often an extension of the social services department. They can see if a child is not being fed. Being abused. Etc. And, i'm sure you know this, NOT ONE parent actually went to jail under that program.

Her record is not perfect, no ones is, but as the top cop, to use a term that really doesn't fit well, she had to/ has to enforce the law.

<sidebar>Many people think black people hate cops, hate the criminal justice system, etc etc etc. We often do, because those systems are inherently biased against us and the statistics bear that out. HOWEVER, we don't want to see the removal of police, the legal system, etc from our neighborhoods and the body politic because we live in the neighborhoods THAT NEED police, and we are often put in situations where WE NEED a justice system that works to right a wrong that may have happened at the school level, police level, the prosecutor level, or with the attorney provided by the state. That's a distinction some ("progressives," quotation marks) won't get, but I assume you get. Ordinary progressives get that too.
We live in poorer neighbor hoods with poorer schools (not just monetarily poor) poorer buildings, poorer infrastructure, often in what are called food deserts. We NEED police, fire departments, libraries, parks, clinics and hospitals, ... resources. Every neighborhood/ community does. We often don't get them or get the worst of them.</sidebar>[/i]

But anyway, if you have anything any links, any articles you think I need to see, please feel free to share. Unlike billi, I do read them.

[neanderthal]

For billi et all.

Bloomberg is proof that centrist/moderate Democrats haven't sold out to the wealthy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

For billi et all.

Bloomberg is proof that centrist/moderate Democrats haven't sold out to the wealthy.

Whew! Yes.

However, if it weren’t for Biden’s late surge, who knows? All I can say is that dem voters definitely didn’t sell out, but DNC altering debate rules to allow him on stage made me feel very uneasy.

Regarding Kamala, I think bottom line is that she’s just not progressive enough, and supposedly more pragmatic which was probably why you love her?

Anyway, as you said, a lot of black communities are poor. There are also quite a bit of wealth being generated on the top end. What has the dems done to help narrow that gap?

Progressives are only trying to narrow that gap. Is that so wrong? Why are you fighting this?

[MR2 Fan]

my guess isn't the policy being fought but the person....trusting whether Bernie or another progressive can get it done

[Crazed_Insanity]

Is that true Neanderthal?

You just hate him because you think he fucked over Hillary last time?

If kamala were progressive like warren, would you still love that version of kamala? Or would you think she’s no longer pragmatic enough?

[FaultyMario]

It also makes employees dependant on their employer, it's another tool for the bourgeoisie to keep the proletariat from being free from their tyranny.

Proletariat? What are you talking about?

All those workers manufacturing consent have good-paying, white-collar jobs!

[JoshInKC]

Kamala Harris stuff
The reason that I had less than no interest in voting for Harris comes down to not her record *as* a prosecutor and DA, but rather her record of *being* a prosecutor and DA.
I'm guessing that as far DAs go she was fine, perhaps even good. But there's no way in hell I'm going to want to vote for someone whose chosen profession was trying to put people in jail.

Similarly, I'm not going to want to vote for somebody whose chosen profession was travelling internationally to kill brown people for the government.

[neanderthal]

The reason that I had less than no interest in voting for Harris comes down to not her record *as* a prosecutor and DA, but rather her record of *being* a prosecutor and DA.
I'm guessing that as far DAs go she was fine, perhaps even good. But there's no way in hell I'm going to want to vote for someone whose chosen profession was trying to put people in jail.

Similarly, I'm not going to want to vote for somebody whose chosen profession was travelling internationally to kill brown people for the government.

Valid point.

What she said about that, was that she knew there were issues in the CJ system and figured it'd be hard to make changes from without, outside of being the governor or something like that, and decided being within was the best way to implement positive changes get justice for all. I could go on and list some of her implementations; body cams, intrinsic racial bias training, etc but none of them change the decision to go into a position that jails people. The obvious play is to get into the defense side, especially for under served areas.

But completely fair point.

And that last sentence is one of the most under rated things said here. Cheers.

[neanderthal]

my guess isn't the policy being fought but the person....trusting whether Bernie or another progressive can get it done

I'm happy with anybody but Trump. I don't believe Bernie can bring down ballot races home. Which means no change in Senate makeup, and possibly a Republican Congress again. NO REVOLUTION! "You sit on a throne of lies!"

<for billi> Say Bernie does win the nomination. And does bring home a sweeping change to the Congress and we win both houses. Well, he's spent the last five years "blasting the Democrats" at every opportunity he could get. With Trump right there, doing despicable things, he's chosen to denigrate and criticise the Democrats at every turn. There's nothing in his history that says that won't change.

[Jason]

I want Harris to prosecute Barr, Trump, Rudy, etc as AG, personally.

[neanderthal]

Let’s just focus on one on your list for now...

So exactly what was reformed that we can be reasonably sure that wall st won’t ever hijack the worlds economy again when shit hits he fan? Do we no longer have financial institutions that are too big to fail?

Also, black criminal could easily get shot before a trial. Even during the trial, he’ll most likely get the maximum sentencing for stealing perhaps a few bucks. If wall st was truly reformed, then I can probably say our criminal justice system has been reformed too.

Not a single white banker went to jail. Do you really believe wall st was properly reformed?

Trump is in power, not Obama. If the world economy collapses, that's not on Obama.

Tell me, which of the despicable things banks engaged in prior to the crash was actually illegal? Name one. When you can name one, i'll name you a white banker who went to jail. And I can say that confidently because they skirted the law, but never actually broke it. That's why no one was jailed.

But of course you want someone to be jailed even when they haven't broken the law. It fits you. It's also something that happens to black and brown people which is why i'd be against it. Like I said, it fits you.

Wells Fargo just got a massive fine for its actions. And was fined $1billion by the CFPB, a consumer watchdog agency put in place by President Obama and championed by Liz Warren. Their CEO was just recently given a $17 million fine.

Why wasn't he jailed? Because he can afford good lawyers. (Who probably hobnob with those same judges at their county clubs and sailing clubs.) Which poor black people can't. And therein is your actual problem.

[neanderthal]

I want Harris to prosecute Barr, Trump, Rudy, etc as AG, personally.

From your fingertips to Gods ears.

[neanderthal]

So is there a realistic path forward for Bernie? The caucused are gone. As are the western semi open primaries with large numbers of Latinos.

Where can he run up the numbers?

[neanderthal]

:lol: :lol: :lol: (https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/03/04/bernie-sanders-joe-biden-2020-election-121582?__twitter_impression=true)<< click link

I'm laughing at the irony of Bernie's campaign co chair saying they "need to appeal to older voters and traditional Democrats."

Hasn't Bernie been attacking Democrats for the last five years? ::smh:

[drew]

I suspect (or at least hope) there are (several) sealed indictments for Trump, his family, and several cabinet members waiting for the second they step out of office.

[mk]

I'm not forgetting any of that, I want to BUILD on that, not simply go back to it.

Time is difficult, in our heads.
Political memory is also too short.

Going forward is not the issue, reversing from backward is, and SCOTUS.
Who is remembering that after say 20 years, that's from Clinton to here.

[Jason]

:lol: :lol: :lol: (https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/03/04/bernie-sanders-joe-biden-2020-election-121582?__twitter_impression=true)<< click link

I'm laughing at the irony of Bernie's campaign co chair saying they "need to appeal to older voters and traditional Democrats."

Hasn't Bernie been attacking Democrats for the last five years? ::smh:

Yeah, this is way too late for him. He should have been trying to work with Democrats from the start vs setting fire to it all. And I say that as someone who very much supports his policies.

[neanderthal]

Yeah, this is way too late for him. He should have been trying to work with Democrats from the start vs setting fire to it all. And I say that as someone who very much supports his policies.

Yup.
I don't have a problem with many of his policies. His manner, his attacks ... on people who are ostensibly on the same side. Total turn off.

[neanderthal]

I suspect (or at least hope) there are (several) sealed indictments for Trump, his family, and several cabinet members waiting for the second they step out of office.

From your fingers to God's ears.

[Tom Servo]

NY Times is reporting that Warren is dropping out of the race today.

Which fucking sucks.

[Jason]

Yeah, I was proud to have voted for her, and still think she’s the best for the job... but she doesn’t have a path to victory, so it makes sense to drop out.

The fact that she’s not endorsing anyone is interesting, to say the least. I’m guessing she’s taking a neutral Obama stance and waiting until someone wins, then will support whomever.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, I'm not surprised about it, but I still think we're worse off as a country now than we were yesterday.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Warren definitely has the best plan or the best skill, qualification-wise, but I am really beginning to doubt her motives as I did with Hillary. Sometimes she just seems a bit too self preserving. Granted, not all of her supporters will go to Sanders... so it may be wise to not endorse anyone until a true winner emerges..., but again, when she does this, I can't help but feel that she's again in a self preserving mode.

Anyway, she's not out out yet... If Biden wins, ideal ticket would probably be with her as VP. If Sander wins, maybe he should pick Amy? The 2 NYT endorsements for VP! ;)

BTW, I am kinda pleased to have Biden vs Bernie, I do believe they are the least negative attack candidates on the debate stage. (Of course I'm not including the bros) Neanderthal, I think you need to understand that Bernie has been attacking the dem establishment... not the democrats. There's a difference.

It's just that for whatever reasons, black voters associated themselves as part of the dem establishment. I can understand how the older whiter and richer democrats associate themselves as part of the dem establishment, but I'm really still at lost as to why you think you are part of the dem establishment.

Sanders does want to help democrats in general do better. He is NOT against the democratic party, he just wants to fix it. By not joining the republican primary and try to mess them up doesn't mean that he loves the republican party.

Anyway, his path forward is continue to be who he is and try to figure out where are the younger voters... if young voters just don't care anymore and won't come out, then yeah, Sanders just won't win. There can't be any revolutions if there are not enough revolutionists.

[FaultyMario]

neutral Obama stance

Dude...

[neanderthal]

Yeah, I was proud to have voted for her, and still think she’s the best for the job... but she doesn’t have a path to victory, so it makes sense to drop out.

The fact that she’s not endorsing anyone is interesting, to say the least. I’m guessing she’s taking a neutral Obama stance and waiting until someone wins, then will support whomever.


Yeah, I'm not surprised about it, but I still think we're worse off as a country now than we were yesterday.

The most capable and probably best candidate left, has now left the race. I wasn't ... excited? by her, but I knew she was the most capable of those left.

[JoshInKC]

Dude...

I think he meant neutral in terms of "not endorsing anyone during the primaries".

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I think it's pretty clear at this point that neither Obama nor Warren would endorse Sanders. They will eventually endorse the eventual nominee of course, but nobody with sound political minds would risk their political career/legacy to stand with Sanders.

Warren didn't endorse Sanders in 2016... and I don't believe she will endorse sanders 2020. Not until Sander wins the nomination perhaps.

I do feel kinda bad for Warren. Fight against Biden has pretty much made her political career. Will she now be able to work with him? Or with Sanders, will she be able to work that that hateful sexist pig? Wonder what's her plan now...

Anyway, I still think Biden/Warren will probably what the dems end up with. I won't vote enthusiastically, but at least I'll be able to vote that.

My ideal ticket would be Sanders/Yang. Still praying for that... ;)

[FaultyMario]

I think he meant neutral in terms of "not endorsing anyone during the primaries".

He is endorsing Biden de facto, he just doesn't want his name associated to an old guy with serious cognitive issues when it all blows up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpPR4VPt47I

He is but a shadow of the man he used to be. Same message, it's just that his ability to deliver it is gone.

[neanderthal]

Warren definitely has the best plan or the best skill, qualification-wise, but I am really beginning to doubt her motives as I did with Hillary. Sometimes she just seems a bit too self preserving. Granted, not all of her supporters will go to Sanders... so it may be wise to not endorse anyone until a true winner emerges..., but again, when she does this, I can't help but feel that she's again in a self preserving mode.

Anyway, she's not out out yet... If Biden wins, ideal ticket would probably be with her as VP. If Sander wins, maybe he should pick Amy? The 2 NYT endorsements for VP! ;)

BTW, I am kinda pleased to have Biden vs Bernie, I do believe they are the least negative attack candidates on the debate stage. (Of course I'm not including the bros) Neanderthal, I think you need to understand that Bernie has been attacking the dem establishment... not the democrats. There's a difference.

It's just that for whatever reasons, black voters associated themselves as part of the dem establishment. I can understand how the older whiter and richer democrats associate themselves as part of the dem establishment, but I'm really still at lost as to why you think you are part of the dem establishment.

Sanders does want to help democrats in general do better. He is NOT against the democratic party, he just wants to fix it. By not joining the republican primary and try to mess them up doesn't mean that he loves the republican party.

Anyway, his path forward is continue to be who he is and try to figure out where are the younger voters... if young voters just don't care anymore and won't come out, then yeah, Sanders just won't win. There can't be any revolutions if there are not enough revolutionists.

No. She is not the ideal VP candidate for Biden even though she is eminently qualified if not better qualified that he is for the top dog. Biden will need someone
A much younger
B female
C from a mid western state, Texas, or Florida
D African American, Latino, Native American or Asian.

A Because you can't have two geriatrics on the ballot when you're trying to draw the younger generation out to vote in THIS climate.
B Because Hillary Clinton, Kamala Harris and now Elizabeth Warren have all been defeated by lesser men. (technically Kamala didn't lose.) And we need women, white women in particular, to come out really strongly for the Democratic candidates in the next election.
C The midwest, Texas and Florida are areas where wins can tip the election. Texas has the 2nd highest population after California. Lots of electoral votes. And Beto's Senate campaign showed how close Texas is to being purple. The metro areas already are, if they aren't blue. Houston, Austin El Paso, definitely are blue. I'm pretty sure Dallas is on the cusp, as are San Antonio, and Ft Worth. Once Texas goes blue, even if it's only at the senate and presidential level, the GOP is dead. And they know it. Florida is the 3rd most populous state. Same reason. Illinois and Ohio are 6th and 7th respectively. And generally vote similarly. They have a chip on their shoulder and that little brother mentality where they feel they are overlooked in comparison to California, the Pacific coast, the north east/ New England, the south, and Texas. It doesn't help that they have lost a lot of their manufacturing clout as industries have closed and factories shut.
D you don't want to depress the minority vote, especially the black vote. African Americans can and will vote for another minority. Ideally the candidate is Latina or Native American. The latin bloc is the second biggest population but is very conservative. Cubans, in general vote Republican. Asians alas, tend to vote red :smh: although that is starting to change, especially in blue states.

Mazie Hirono might be the bet candidate. Midwestern. Female. Handicapped. Veteran.
Stacy Abrams is another, although she is from Georgia, which i suppose is close enough to Florida. And it did go to Trump in the last go round. She could bring the suburban white female vote into play.

This is not next level intellectual mind games. This is basic political stuff, not even politics 101. This is Politics 90; win lots of little states, or alternatively win one or two big ones. This is your Florida, Texas, or midwest. Win where you're weak or energise those sections of the population that don't vote. This is your white women and youth vote.

My ideal ticket is still Kamala/ Julian.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I honestly don't believe the conservatives are really that into identity politics and will give up on Trump just because the dems picked a right gender/ethnicity for VP...

My VP recommendations were made to help consolidate the liberal voters... to minimize their divisions. If the dems cannot all totally get behind a ticket, Trump will win another term. Ideally we need to energize voters and get them to come out to vote. That's the key! It was kinda odd that only black people were energized and young people sat out...

Most likely the media bernie bro spin has worked... and young folks thought Sanders is just a hater too and gave up? Otherwise I really don't understand what happened to the young voters on super tuesday...

Anyway, if Biden wins, he needs a more progressive VP. If Sanders win, he now has to realize that he needs a more moderate VP rather than somebody like AOC. Now that the 'unity' candidate has dropped out, we need to find another way to unite the party base 1st. Without doing that, it'll be difficult to beat Trump.

If the liberal candidate can't even inspire all liberals to be onboard... what chance will he have against Trump?

[neanderthal]

I honestly don't believe the conservatives are really that into identity politics and will give up on Trump just because the dems picked a right gender/ethnicity for Biden's VP...

My VP recommendations were made to help consolidate the liberal voters... to minimize their divisions. If the dems cannot all totally get behind a ticket, Trump will win another term.

If Biden wins, he needs a more progressive VP. If Sanders win, he now has to realize that he needs a more moderate VP rather than somebody like AOC.

Then you're being either wilfully ignorant or very naive. Republican voters will come out and vote for the nominee, regardless of who it is. I'll remind you the Trump is president.

Clinton won Massachusetts. Warren won't help Biden in that regard. She's 70 years old; won't galvanise the young vote that much. Didn't get large numbers of minority voters.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Please remember that the impeachment further energized conservative support.

Surely those conservatives who won't vote for Trump would either go with whatever candidate or just sit out..., but pretty sure that'd be a small minority.

Rather than trying to attract those minority group, it's more important to consolidate the dems. Had Hillary consolidated the liberal base a bit better... such as included a more progressive VP, she would've won my vote. She'd still win CA regardless of me, but her popular vote will go up further. If there are enough Billi's around the country, maybe she could win some more electoral votes too.

Was her VP pick really helpful in terms of winning conservative votes back in 2016? I can't imagine any conservative end up using Tim Kaine as the reason to not vote for Trump...

[neanderthal]

Biden up 61-12 over Bernie in Florida poll. Ouch!

[FaultyMario]

Biden up 61-12 over Bernie in Florida poll. Ouch!

In a red state democrats are never going to win? Oh noes, he's fucked!

[neanderthal]

In a red state democrats are never going to win? Oh noes, he's fucked!

It's all about the delegates at the convention right now. You're working about the wrong election.

Anyway, cue there Bros yelling "rigged"

[neanderthal]

In a red state democrats are never going to win? Oh noes, he's fucked!

It's all about the delegates at the convention right now. You're working about the wrong election.

Anyway, cue there Bros yelling "rigged"

[FaultyMario]

It's all about the delegates at the convention right now. You're working about the wrong election.

If it stays like that after the Univision debate, I'll buy you a beer.

Meanwhile, Bernie's #1 worry should be the southern black vote in Missouri.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, Sanders was 13% at 3rd place behind Bloomberg back in Feb in Florida. At least he has advanced to 2nd place in Florida! ;)

But even looking at Michigan and national level, Biden is surging ahead. Definitely not good news for Sanders... next debate in March 15th? That may be Sander's last chance to shift the momentum. Otherwise the revolution might be over.

I guess Trump has been disruptive enough... voters just want to return to status quo...

[neanderthal]

Rachel Maddie was soft on Bernie (https://twitter.com/Cajsa/status/1235449619854708736?s=19) which is disappointing from such a brilliant political geek.

[neanderthal]

Bloomberg working to elect the Democratic nominee in 6 swing states. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mike-bloomberg-plans-new-group-to-support-democratic-nominee/2020/03/05/a2522c44-5f13-11ea-9055-5fa12981bbbf_story.html#click=https://t.co/8XMOoi39XQ)

But why didn't he just do this in the first place?

[neanderthal]

Breyer and Ginsburg, love em, but aren't gonna be in the Supreme Court for much longer.

Regardless of who your candidate was in the primary, that's what you need to keep foremost in November.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Rachel Maddie was soft on Bernie (https://twitter.com/Cajsa/status/1235449619854708736?s=19) which is disappointing from such a brilliant political geek.

What? You guys want her to be mean to Bernie like one of his bros? Why? Why would you want to do as the bros do? Rachel just doesn't want to be a Biden bro. That's something to complain about too?

BTW, I found this in that tweet thread:


Bo Erickson CBS
@BoKnowsNews
·
23h
NEW: @JoeBiden
responds to @berniesanders
saying the “establishment” is trying to defeat him.

“The establishment are all those hardworking, middle class people, those African Americans...they are the establishment!” @CBSNews


Made me laugh... and cry...

I wonder what we call those wall st bankers or silicon valley billionaires... with money stashed away in offshore accounts...

Neanderthal, you do realize by anti-establishment, we don't mean it to be anti somebody like you right? Hard working, middle class, african american...

Yes, we are vastly different ideologically, but the fight against the establishment isn't with the black lives...

I think the media has done a good number on african american voters. We don't need russians to meddle with our election, our own media does the job well enough...

[neanderthal]

You should read this article (https://www.theroot.com/an-open-letter-to-white-liberals-blaming-low-informatio-1842100419) billi.

It applies to you.

And don't hide behind semantics; we know when you lot say "establishment/ centrist/ etc" that you're calling us names.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The 'revolution' really isn't about revolting against the middle/lower class black lives 'oppressing' the poor.

But if you really want to support the 'establishment', so be it. In a democracy, we have to respect whatever the outcome. If status quo suits black folks, I can respect that.

Better status quo than Trump.

However we define the word "establishment", unless Biden totally screw up the next debate..., I think it's becoming increasingly clear that the 'establishment' has won!

Of course under the Biden admin, BLM can just revolt against the republican obstructionist congress, right?

If Biden loses, then you guys can also blame it all on Bernie for fracturing the dem party base...

No matter what happens, Dem establishment can't lose. (Eventhough it has been tremendously ineffective lately... I'll patiently wait for Obamacare to eventually cover all americans affordably. I'm sure eventually the pragmatic Dem establishment will get it done while accepting campaign contributions from big pharma!)

[Crazed_Insanity]

You should read this article (https://www.theroot.com/an-open-letter-to-white-liberals-blaming-low-informatio-1842100419) billi.

It applies to you.

And don't hide behind semantics; we know when you lot say "establishment/ centrist/ etc" that you're calling us names.

BTW, that letter was addressed to white liberals. I'm not really white.... and I believe i'm a centrist. I believe in both capitalism and socialism. I believe in both pro-life and pro-choice!:)

If you're already offended by the words such as establishment, centrists, etc, no wonder you thought bernie bros words are super mean.

Anyway, like I said, I can respect people's choices. Whether it be Biden or Trump or even Hillary, I will never say that he/she is NOT my president. I won't like it, but I'll respect that office... for 4... and no more than 8 years. In 4 more years, we can always start another revolution. :p

Sooner or later the status quo will collapse, either by revolution or under its own weight.

Healthcare costs is not sustainable. Education cost is unsustainable. Fossil fuel use is unsustainable. The continual widening of the gap between rich and poor won't be sustainable. It's all just a matter of time. Race has nothing to do with any of that. It don't matter if you're black or white or yellow.

[Crazed_Insanity]

To be fair to black voters in SC, I think Sanders himself made a blunder for not asking Jim Clyburn for endorsement. Yeah, Sanders has a low chance of getting that endorsement, but he should at least try. Sanders knew he won't do well there based on 2016, so he didn't even bother... so his apparent 'snob' of the SC Black voters is now a huge mistake in hindsight. Or maybe he was over confident that black voters will line up again against Clyburn's endorsement like the union workers defied Union endorsement at Nevada? Wishful thinking...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/majority-whip-jim-clyburn-sanders-never-courted-my-endorsement?ref=scroll

Anyway, we'll see if Sanders could recover from this strategic blunder... Fat lady hasn't sang yet! :p

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/ehmp8zlkixk41.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Is there really a capitalist class?

[neanderthal]

BTW, that letter was addressed to white liberals. I'm not really white.... and I believe i'm a centrist. I believe in both capitalism and socialism. I believe in both pro-life and pro-choice!:)

If you're already offended by the words such as establishment, centrists, etc, no wonder you thought bernie bros words are super mean.

Anyway, like I said, I can respect people's choices. Whether it be Biden or Trump or even Hillary, I will never say that he/she is NOT my president. I won't like it, but I'll respect that office... for 4... and no more than 8 years. In 4 more years, we can always start another revolution. :p

Sooner or later the status quo will collapse, either by revolution or under its own weight.

Healthcare costs is not sustainable. Education cost is unsustainable. Fossil fuel use is unsustainable. The continual widening of the gap between rich and poor won't be sustainable. It's all just a matter of time. Race has nothing to do with any of that. It don't matter if you're black or white or yellow.

:smh:

You know how I know you're full of shit? You say shit like that.

Let me guess; to you the wealth gap between blacks and whites is ... because blacks spend all their money on liquor and weed?
Meanwhile, just a few years ago headlines were telling us that many lenders were pushing black prospective homeowners into adjustable rate mortgages, even when they qualified for more traditional financing. These are headlines from this last decade, for loans within the five years before that.
Do you even know what redlining is?
Have you heard of the school to prison pipeline?
Disparate rates in arrests? Pressing charges? Sentencing? Parole?

It's late as fuck and this is a political thread, so instead of schooling you on basic shit i'll ask you a political question; why was the Voting Rights Act enacted? A followup; why was affirmative action a thing? Are you able to think beyond the question's answers as to how the answers affects the wealth gap between African Americans and Whites?

Or is that asking too much?

[21Kid]

My god... You're still wasting your time on Billi?

[JoshInKC]

Is there really a capitalist class?

Yes.

[neanderthal]

Warren on Sanders followers. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/)

It may not be all of them, but it's a significant enough number if them.
That Sanders has been "meh" about it is poor leadership. Period.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That links not working for me... anyway...

Neanderthal, let me be clear that I am not saying racism doesn’t exist.

I am just saying that issues such as global warming, runaway health care cost, and the widening gap between the rich and poor were not caused by racism nor are they issues only relatable to black people.

This isn’t me trying to dismiss BLM by saying all lives matter, but those issues are literally caused by the entire human species! Ok, US’s healthcare problems can’t be blamed on all human species, but I hope you get my point.

No need to take unnecessary offense just as you thought an attack against the establishment, moderate, centrists is an attack against black people. It should be clear to you thats just not the case!

Racism for sure exists but not everything is about racism against black people, okay?

Do you really think Sanders and his supporters are blaming black people for the widening gap between the rich and poor?
Do you really believe we are blaming black people for our rising healthcare cost?
It's also the black people who are profiting from fossil fuel burning while choking our environment?

Anyway, it's clear you don't believe Sanders has the chops to get anything done anyways.
I also don't believe status quo Joe will have any incentive to bite the hands that donate to him.

So hopefully Trump will solve our problems...:rolleyes:

[Jason]

The Nazi flag was waved at a recent Sanders rally. Shit is getting ugly.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes.

I don't believe there is a capitalist class. We're all in these -isms together!

Yes, in a capitalistic society, we can definitely end up with a group of haves and another group of havenots, but these 2 groups are both the product of capitalism, right?

Likewise, socialism covers everyone without any classes. We all can collect social security... however, the size of our social security checks may vary. Such variations maybe result in different classes... there will undoubtedly be some sort of hierarchy in our societies... but surely we can't have 2 completely separate classes of upper capitalist pig exploiting the poor class and a lower socialistic mean and hateful always looking for a chance to revolt working class...

I think it should be possible to have a stable capitalistic society paying decent living wages while at the same time having a social safety net program that can take care of them when they're down financially or health-wise...

[Crazed_Insanity]

The Nazi flag was waved at a recent Sanders rally. Shit is getting ugly.

Do you think Sanders the Jew is responsible for allowing that to happen at his rally? He can't even control his bros... how will he run this country? Maybe he should drop out.

[Jason]

No, I’m not suggesting that Sanders invites Nazis to his rallies in a friendly manner. I’m saying that our political discourse is getting so toxic, that we now have Nazis out in the open at rallies for Presidential nominees.

[neanderthal]

Something I hadn't thought about. (https://twitter.com/ThomboyD/status/1235797621618302976?s=19)

edited to fix link.

[Rikadyn]

No, I’m not suggesting that Sanders invites Nazis to his rallies in a friendly manner. I’m saying that our political discourse is getting so toxic, that we now have Nazis out in the open at rallies for Presidential nominees.

Other than Trump rallies...

[Crazed_Insanity]

No, I’m not suggesting that Sanders invites Nazis to his rallies in a friendly manner. I’m saying that our political discourse is getting so toxic, that we now have Nazis out in the open at rallies for Presidential nominees.

Ok, sorry I misunderstood your post. I'm just really sick and tired of people blaming Sanders for what the stupid bros have done...

[Crazed_Insanity]

[url=https://twitter.com/ThomboyD/status/1235797621618302976?s=19] Something I hadn't thought about. [Url]

Dude, do you think Biden has a better plan than Bernie regarding this virus?

Look, none of them are infectious disease experts... and this health crisis came on pretty unexpectedly. I think it's unrealistic to expect any presidential candidates to have perfectly detailed answers on the spot.

However, this particular health crises perfectly highlighted the importance of having universal healthcare. We can't really tell the American people to be pragmatic about it... we just can't test and help everyone because that's too expensive. Poor people will just have to deal with it themselves...

I was kinda disappointed to not see the progressives using coronavirus as a reason to push for M4A during the last debate, but everyone was pretty much down playing it... didn't want to create a mass hysteria I guess.

Anyway, I think Sanders did have quite a bit of missteps to end up where he is today.

Regarding that stupid virus, like I've said before, hopefully the mishandling of this virus by the Trump admin will help us remove him from office... This virus is color blind... of course it started in the blue states 1st, but surely red states won't be spared.

[Jason]

Warren had a thought out plan for basically everything, but being thorough isn’t a big seller among voters, apparently.

[Rikadyn]

Is there really a capitalist class?

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/06/your-brain-capitalism-cnbc-market-analyst-rick-santelli-calls-infecting-global

[Tom Servo]

No, I’m not suggesting that Sanders invites Nazis to his rallies in a friendly manner. I’m saying that our political discourse is getting so toxic, that we now have Nazis out in the open at rallies for Presidential nominees.

It's bizarre that he asked that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/06/your-brain-capitalism-cnbc-market-analyst-rick-santelli-calls-infecting-global

Yeah, stock market collapse can affect all... likewise an out of control viral outbreak can affect all. I don't know what's the right call...

Anyway, Rick Santelli is a capitalist extremist, at most in a 'class' of his own. I don't believe there's a 'class' of capitalists.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Warren had a thought out plan for basically everything, but being thorough isn’t a big seller among voters, apparently.

Well, 1st crack in her campaign was that she was unable to back up her claim to have M4A without raising middle class taxes, right? Her plan was just too good to be true. Same Bernie plan, but cheaper! That put some doubts in some minds. She probably should've created her own lane... and don't use the same M4A language, but still commit to some sort of universal healthcare. Anyway, I think trying to occupy both 'lanes' was her main issue. Maybe if she could've created an brand new lane of her own, she could've done better?

For me personally, I got most turned off by her he said she said moment with Sanders. Sanders is for sure a lousier politician than Warren, but one thing I admire about Sanders is his integrity. So when push comes to shove, I'd believe Sanders. I suspect a lot of folks got turned off by the gender politics. She could've easily beat Sanders with more of her well thought out plans, there was really no need to bring Me Too politics into this. If there's really a tape recording of this like what Access Hollywood did with Trump, then I'm sure Sanders will be out. But without proof and if I have to go by faith..., then sorry Elizabeth, I believe Sanders more.

[Tom Servo]

I suspect a lot of folks got turned off by the gender politics.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but it'll be at least another 4 1/2 years before we can ask a woman who has ever been president her opinion on that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Look, this is the democratic primary. Democratic voters hopefully are less racist, sexist and deplorable.

We have a population that's 50% female... and white population is on a decline. These white old men are dying off. It's only a matter of time.

We should elect leaders based on their qualifications... policy, record, integrity, etc. Race and gender should NOT be the deciding factor! Who ever is more qualified to do the job, he or she should have it!

I suppose one way to ensure a more diverse field in the future is to fuck Iowa, let them caucus last.

[Tom Servo]

Like you said, we have a population that's 50% female (last I saw it's more like 52%), and yet there hasn't been a single female president. Even if white population is in decline, that wouldn't affect that. To me, reading being "turned off by the gender politics" seems like a refusal to even contemplate that there might be something there that we don't like about ourselves.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You are doing to me the same thing as Neanderthal.

I’m not saying sexism doesn’t exist, but if you really want to play that card, then prove to me that sanders is truly a sexist rather than lumping sanders as all other white sexist pigs.

Lastly, back in 2016, sanders urged Warren to run against Hillary. He was yielding to both of them females!!!! That sexist pig!!!

Warren chose to not run.

Should we really blame sanders for being a sexist?

Please my friends, choose to be reasonable!

[Tom Servo]

Wait, what exactly am I doing to you? I took it that you were turned off by her bringing gender into it. You don't seem to be disagreeing with that.

[FaultyMario]

I think that Matt Taibi is ultimately right, Sanders can't expect us to let him be the most powerful person in [the world] if he can't win an election against Biden.

[Jason]

I feel like nuance is lost when discussing the Sanders/Warren conversation. It's very very possible he said something along the lines that he didn't believe a woman can beat Trump. Not because he thought, himself, that a woman isn't good enough, but rather because he thought the nation sexist after seeing 2016. And it's very possible Warren took that to mean that he thought women weren't up to the task. It is possible for two well meaning people to misunderstand each other. Other than being discussed for a brief moment at a debate, it wasn't all that big of a deal.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I believe that’s probably what happened but Warren/media made it into a huge deal on the debate stage! That turned supporters like me off.

If you have to force me into ignoring the nuances in order to pick whether he’s a sexist pig or she’s a liar, I’d have to pick she’s a liar.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think that Matt Taibi is ultimately right, Sanders can't expect us to let him be the most powerful person in [the world] if he can't win an election against Biden.

Yes! If Sanders can’t even beat somebody like Biden, he has no hope against Trump.

Anyway, I’m still at lost with what the hell happened to the young voters Sanders supposedly energized?

At least he won CA, but with voter turnout of 20% is just unbelievable... people just don’t care much anymore I guess...

Likewise with all the support for Andrew Yang online... and with grassroots donations and then nobody voted for him in Iowa and NH....

I think I’ll just give up on politics for a while... it’s like we just can’t make any difference...

Just focus on making lots of money, then you can buy politicians...

[FaultyMario]

Do remember that authoritarian regimes* like Trump's always, always, always have voter-suppression policies in effect.


*Even in democratic-ish electoral systems.

[FaultyMario]

The International Court of Criminal Justice is launching an investigation into American War Crimes in Afghanistan?

The International Court of Criminal Justice is launching an investigation into American War Crimes in Afghanistan. (https://www.icc-cpi.int/Pages/item.aspx?name=200305-otp-statement-afghanistan)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wait, what exactly am I doing to you? I took it that you were turned off by her bringing gender into it. You don't seem to be disagreeing with that.

Neanderthal probably thought I’m a racism denier when I said issues such as global warming, rising healthcare costs, widening gap between rich and poor have nothing to do with race. I thought those issues are collective human failures, not race related.

Likewise, I thought you thought that I’m a sexism denier.

[FaultyMario]

New standards eliminate Tulsi Gabbard from next Democratic debate.

It's a Biden vs Sanders one-on-one.

[MR2 Fan]

I just can't wait for Comrade Gabbard to run as an independent (ok, I'm not 100% sure if Hillary is right, but it is quite feasible...we saw it before with Jill Stein)

[Tom Servo]

Neanderthal probably thought I’m a racism denier when I said issues such as global warming, rising healthcare costs, widening gap between rich and poor have nothing to do with race. I thought those issues are collective human failures, not race related.

Likewise, I thought you thought that I’m a sexism denier.

I mean, of course parts of it do have to do with race, just like parts of this do have to do with sex. Just because you support Bernie doesn't mean you're sexist, but chances are he got more votes than Warren because of sexism. Lots of things are intertwined - in an ideal world, we would all vote for the best candidate, but we're far from an ideal world, and I'd even file my in-laws and maybe my parents under the "didn't vote for Warren because she's a woman" tag. Being conscious of these things helps try to level that field.

As a specific example, I just had someone sign up using my email for a "rent-to-own home" system. It sounded janky and I looked it up. There's a long history since at least the '50s targeting black people with rent-to-own schemes that ties into the fact that most people in this country build wealth through homeownership, discriminatory lending policies, and targeting people already behind on the playing field during the subprime lending spree of the 2000's. The gap isn't entirely due to race, obviously white people also fell victim to the subprime lending scams, but it was overwhelmingly targeted at black people who already were on the back heel due to not owning a home.

Think of it like this. You are not necessarily a douchebag if you drive an Audi. Audis are great cars! However, if you're a douchebag, chances are you really want an Audi. You're not necessarily sexist if you like Bernie. Bernie's a great candidate! However, if you are sexist, you probably went for Bernie.

[Crazed_Insanity]

SubPrime lending definitely contributed more to the wealth gap. However, if you’re the capitalistic pig trying to target your victims, should you really racially profiling them or should to profile them based on their income?

Now even if the predatory lenders were strictly looking for black people and not really poor people, who do you think can help black people? People like Joe who has Family members sitting as board members in banks?

If Bernie were really sexist and thought Hillary has no chance, why would he urge Warren to run? Just for shit and giggles?

Had Warren listened to Sanders, I’m pretty sure Warren could’ve easily defeated Hillary just as Obama did. Warren also would fucking destroy Trump like she did Bloomberg.

You may think some voters are sexists for preferring sanders, just as you may think the bros are mean, but I just think it’s unfair to blame all that crap on Sanders.

[Tom Servo]

Well, guess we're deflecting again. Enjoy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I just can't wait for Comrade Gabbard to run as an independent (ok, I'm not 100% sure if Hillary is right, but it is quite feasible...we saw it before with Jill Stein)

I still like her, but if she breaks her promise to not run 3rd party, she’d lose all credibility. People already don’t believe her, if she wants people to take her more seriously in the future, she better keeps her promises. I wonder if dems would even allow her to say a word during the convention... hope so.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/rosiegray/tulsi-gabbard-2020-third-party-president

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, guess we're deflecting again. Enjoy.

Yes. Just like when Sanders said he didn’t say that, you and the moderator probably thought he was deflecting. Warren would also walk up to him and ask him ‘how dare you call me a liar!?!?!’

Bunch of deflectors we are...

[FaultyMario]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FSK7fMCb2k

[Tom Servo]

Yes. Just like when Sanders said he didn’t say that, you and the moderator probably thought he was deflecting. Warren would also walk up to him and ask him ‘how dare you call me a liar!?!?!’

Bunch of deflectors we are...

And again. I think Jason probably has it right what happened there. But it's not what I was talking about. And neither is anything else you've said.

If you feel like it, re-read what I wrote and instead of reading it in a way where you feel like you need to defend Bernie from my attack (hint, I'm not attacking him), just read it. Stop trying to defend it. Realize it's explicitly responding to you saying that a bunch of social issues have "nothing to do with race," and not about your favorite candidates. It is 100% in response to that specific assertion and, by association your assertion that sexism had nothing to do with this, and nothing else.

[FaultyMario]

I have to say, people are now staying in the United States, spending their money in the US -- and I like that.


I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Trump is pro-Coronavirus. After all he is pro-Russia, pro-dictatorship, pro-crime, pro-ignorance, pro-lie, pro-racism, pro-misogyny, pro-white supremacy. Being pro-fatal disease is actually very on brand for him.

##

[Crazed_Insanity]

And again. I think Jason probably has it right what happened there. But it's not what I was talking about. And neither is anything else you've said.

If you feel like it, re-read what I wrote and instead of reading it in a way where you feel like you need to defend Bernie from my attack (hint, I'm not attacking him), just read it. Stop trying to defend it. Realize it's explicitly responding to you saying that a bunch of social issues have "nothing to do with race," and not about your favorite candidates. It is 100% in response to that specific assertion and, by association your assertion that sexism had nothing to do with this, and nothing else.

Anyway, maybe I’m just not in a very good mood... that’s why I couldn’t even read Jason’s Nazi flag post straight...

My sincere apologies..., I’ll try to go back and reread later...

[Tom Servo]

Not trying to harsh your mood. We've had a brutal week for our family, so it's always possible I'm a little on the harsh side too.

Just know none of it is an accusation, just an attempt at understanding.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ok, I hope I’m back...., seriously, I really felt like Sanders being attacked unfairly from all sides and the thought of impending defeat of the progressive movement really got to me...

Anyway, let’s try to restart here:




Think of it like this. You are not necessarily a douchebag if you drive an Audi. Audis are great cars! However, if you're a douchebag, chances are you really want an Audi. You're not necessarily sexist if you like Bernie. Bernie's a great candidate! However, if you are sexist, you probably went for Bernie.

My wife would disagree, she’d use BMWs as example and Tesla owners are heading toward that stereotype! ;)

Anyway, I get what you’re saying. Our brains inevitably make predictions based on our past experiences rightly or wrongly.

Racial and sexual profiling happens all the time.

I suppose I can’t speak for all sanders supporters, but at least for me, I thought I’ve came up with a reasonable rationale to not trust Warren. If it were truly he said she said without any context whatsoever, I do believe we ought to give women the benefit of the doubt. That’s what the me too movement was about. However unfortunately I do believe some women are abusing this movement.

Anyway, Warren would have a better chance of accusing Sanders inappropriately touch someone. To accuse him of not believing woman can be president was just too unbelievable to voters like me. Sorry, I don’t mean to attack your favorite candidate, but based on what I’ve known, her accusation simply sounded like a lie.

Now, what I hate about all this is that liberals placed way too much emphasis on these -isms when something goes wrong. Obama won the WH doesn’t mean racism ended. It only meant that we could overcome it at times. Hillary’s or warrens bids ended, sure, sexism can play a role, but in order to put a woman in the White House, we need a better strategy rather than just wallow in sexism.

Likewise, if Sanders bid failed, the soul searching part shouldn’t be why black people rejected Bernie, but why young people disappeared...

[neanderthal]

Look, this is the democratic primary. Democratic voters hopefully are less racist, sexist and deplorable.

We have a population that's 50% female... and white population is on a decline. These white old men are dying off. It's only a matter of time.

We should elect leaders based on their qualifications... policy, record, integrity, etc. Race and gender should NOT be the deciding factor! Who ever is more qualified to do the job, he or she should have it!

I suppose one way to ensure a more diverse field in the future is to fuck Iowa, let them caucus last.


Well that disqualifies Bernie yet here you are caping for him.

[neanderthal]

I feel like nuance is lost when discussing the Sanders/Warren conversation. It's very very possible he said something along the lines that he didn't believe a woman can beat Trump. Not because he thought, himself, that a woman isn't good enough, but rather because he thought the nation sexist after seeing 2016. And it's very possible Warren took that to mean that he thought women weren't up to the task. It is possible for two well meaning people to misunderstand each other. Other than being discussed for a brief moment at a debate, it wasn't all that big of a deal.

This 100%.
Yet I believe Liz Warren wouldn't be the kinda woman to let such a glib statement go unclarified. And for Bernie, realising his mistake, to change the subject. Leaving what both of them said to be true.

[neanderthal]

The International Court of Criminal Justice is launching an investigation into American War Crimes in Afghanistan?

The International Court of Criminal Justice is launching an investigation into American War Crimes in Afghanistan. (https://www.icc-cpi.int/Pages/item.aspx?name=200305-otp-statement-afghanistan)

Charges for you, charges for you, charges for you, charges for everybody!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well that disqualifies Bernie yet here you are caping for him.

Bernie has a fine record, not sure how you can justify supporting Biden’s records. Biden’s 40 year senate record don’t really age well.

If you’re talking about actual accomplishments, hey, what has the worst congress ever really accomplished lately? As for the things that Biden did accomplished, are you sure you like them all?

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-biden-senate-record-controversies-20190318-story.html?_amp=true

Sanders not perfect, but his records, although might not have accomplished much, but they do age very well over the decades...

[neanderthal]

Bernie has a fine record, not sure how you can justify supporting Biden’s records. Biden’s 40 year senate record don’t really age well.

If you’re talking about actual accomplishments, hey, what has the worst congress ever really accomplished lately? As for the things that Biden did accomplished, are you sure you like them all?

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-biden-senate-record-controversies-20190318-story.html?_amp=true

Sanders not perfect, but his records, although might not have accomplished much, but they do age very well over the decades...

Bernie has spent decades in Congress and has passed an abysmal 7 bills; (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/400357) 2 of which named post offices, one proclaimed a bicentennial day, one of which expanded the boundaries of a national forest.

We're not talking about the worst congress ever, I loathed them, i've stated so many a time, we're talking about Bernie. Also, if you are talking about the current Congress, which is completely different from the worst Congress ever, they've passed bills, bills that sit on Trumps desk unsigned. That happened with John Boenher. That happened with Paul Ryan. That's happening with Mitch McConnell. Yet you and your ilk bay loudly and blame/ criticise Democrats for Republican inaction, and say nothing about the actions of Republicans. Constantly!

We see you. :smh:

[neanderthal]

Kamala endorsed Joe.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So what if you accomplished more shit? Trump and the republican congress accomplished more than Bernie too! so we should vote for them if that’s the ‘gold standard’ we should use?

I don’t get you...

Anyway, debating about this is kinda pointless, if sanders loses Michigan, I think fat lady would sing then... people will like their favorite candidate no matter what. I just hope regardless of what happened, the progressives can find out what went wrong, what happened to the disappearance of the young voters in the short span of 4 yrs...

[Jason]

The only candidate to endorse Sanders so far is Williamson. Every other one has gone to Biden (and Castro endorsed Warren). I think that says a lot about Sanders, unfortunately. I like his policy ideas, but no one has any faith in him as a leader.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Obviously Hillary spoke the truth that nobody likes him. I don’t think even Warren wants to endorse him.

She was in SNL jokingly said the she’ll pull a NYT and endorse them both! :D

However, I’m not so sure if such lack of endorsements were all due to lack of faith. Plenty of those newly elected female progressives such as AOC endorsed sanders. She didn’t just blindly endorse a woman... and endorsed an white old man who nobody likes. Why?

To me, this is clearly the dnc establishment vs sanders. When everyone has decided to invade Iraq, nobody will like the super minority who oppose the majority. But it’s this kind of records that made me admire this unlikable old man.

Anyway, were these progressives congress persons elected simply because of push back against trump or people really wanted to push back against the entire political establishment? Is the progressive movement even real? Time will tell.

At this point, Sanders strategy is obviously not panning out... what worked in Vermont is not working nationally.

[MR2 Fan]

Good thread which I believe breaks this Sanders issue down

https://twitter.com/RachelBitecofer/status/1236702284123422722

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think I figured out Sanders problem..., based on recent election results, poor voters overwhelmingly voted Biden. Rationally it made little sense, Sanders is trying hard to help poor folks..., but in today’s political climate under Trump, poorer Americans just want normalcy, they don’t have the luxury of ‘dreaming’ for a better future with all the free stuffs. Sounds just too good to be true. They just want status quo back...

I suppose starting from far right, we have to return to the center 1st before we can try to go left...

I think my new ideal ticket now is a Biden/Sanders ticket that’d ensure the future unity of the party. (Or at least a Biden/Warren ticket. If Biden did what Hillary did and completely ignores the progressives, then our future with fractured liberal voters would be truly doomed!)

[neanderthal]

I think I figured out Sanders problem..., based on recent election results, poor voters overwhelmingly voted Biden. Rationally it made little sense, Sanders is trying hard to help poor folks..., but in today’s political climate under Trump, poorer Americans just want normalcy, they don’t have the luxury of ‘dreaming’ for a better future with all the free stuffs. Sounds just too good to be true. They just want status quo back...

I suppose starting from far right, we have to return to the center 1st before we can try to go left...

I think my new ideal ticket now is a Biden/Sanders ticket that’d ensure the future unity of the party. (Or at least a Biden/Warren ticket. If Biden did what Hillary did and completely ignores the progressives, then our future with fractured liberal voters would be truly doomed!)

:lol:
Reality that St Bernieis GOING NOWHERE is finally setting in.

You didn't figure out shit. Poor people didn't figure out shit. Poor people voted in New Hampshire. In Texas. In other states. Some may even have caucused, but poor people can't spend all day doing that shit; which is why I say, and have said that caucuses are discriminatory. Who's got all day to do that shit but people got time and disposable income?

The reality is that the bedrock of the Democratic votes in the south, the African American vote, voted, and clearly stated their preferences. And i've told you African Americans are practical voters; we ain't fall for Bernies shit because we ain't seen Bernie EVAH come round our neighborhoods trying to figure out our problems. (Why his go to response to any damn question "for too long the oligarchs, billionaires and millionaires ...") St Bernie ain't do shit and he been in Congress for damn near 40 years. Ain't do shit!

Here he is saying he's gonna give errbody health care, college education, clean water, and all that and he can't any pass real legislation in 40 years? Who buys that? How? How's he gonna do that? That doesn't compute.

Mind you, this the cat supposed to be a civil rights champion, marched with Martin Luther King, been arrested and beat (nope!) and all dat, but he don't know that the justice system is racist? Who don't know that? Which civil rights champion doesn't know that? That doesn't compute. Who falls for this shit?
Not me. Not us.

If the future of the democratic party is fractured because of "progressives" that's gonna be on y'all. You're not the first one to threaten the future of the Democratic party online; it fits a pattern of bro behaviour. You think a people who's entire existence on this continent has been about survival aren't gonna respond when you threaten their political life?


:lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Look, Trump ‘united’ the right to win the White House.

Whatever the reason between the rift between moderates and progressives, without uniting, it’ll be difficult to beat Trump.

I suppose I could be wrong again...

If we end up with a Biden/Kamala ticket and then they went ahead and beat Trump with a landslide victory, then that’ll prove me totally wrong and the progressive movement will surely completely die and you will be able to live happily ever after without us bothering you ever again! :)

[Jason]

Jesus, there really is no nuance with you. A Biden/Kamala ticket doesn’t mean the progressive movement is dead. Sanders, Warren, AOC and others will continue to push things in Congress where bills are written. Moderates, as usual, will generally drag their feet, but stuff will get done eventually. Not everything is Now or Dead. Take marriage rights, for example... it took a long time for moderates in the Democratic Party to get get on board with it, but now they’re all about it. Same thing for marijuana legalization/decriminalization. And a surprising amount of moderates are coming around on Medicare for All. While it’s frustrating the speed we move forward, we still move forward.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I know that Jason, that’s just my way of making Neanderthal feel better.

However, I’m not completely wrong either, think about it, had the Hillary/Kaine ticket won decisively, Sanders would become rather irrelevant come 2020. AOC and the like might not even get elected too...

[FaultyMario]

Coronavirus is not just sapping demand from the economy. It is also affecting supply. (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/viral-recession/607657/)


In a more likely scenario, given how governments are dithering on emergency financial measures and bungling their public-health responses, [Covid-19] might slash global growth in half, meaning that many countries would fall into outright recession. The world economy faces the “greatest threat” since the Great Recession, [OECD] concluded.


Harvard’s Jason Furman has suggested that Congress send every adult American $1,000 and every child $500, immediately. Claudia Sahm of the Washington Center for Equitable Growth has proposed a series of policies to aid strained families as well. But the Trump administration has never shown much interest in policy leadership. It has failed to attract practiced technocrats—senior Treasury leadership has virtually no experience managing a financial crisis—and spurred the resignation of thousands of experienced nonpartisan civil servants. The country is trying to fight economic and medical contagion without institutional knowledge or technocratic prowess.

[Tom Servo]

Ever since Ted Cruz went into self-quarantine, we haven't had a single zodiac killing. Really makes you think...

[FaultyMario]

Matt Gaetz was also notified that he came in contact with a COVID-19 patient.

The same Matt Gaetz that traveled in Air Force One with Trump.

[MR2 Fan]

it's amazing...oh and Trump wants to keep having rallies apparently....woohoo!

In other news, the Dow lost over 2,000 points...biggest drop in history and it's funny seeing video of the closing bell and there's a bunch of people as every day standing there at the NYSE bell...clapping....like isn't there a point where you just don't clap anymore?

[Rikadyn]

Papa nurgle bless us all

[George]

In other news, the Dow lost over 2,000 points...biggest drop in history and it's funny seeing video of the closing bell and there's a bunch of people as every day standing there at the NYSE bell...clapping....like isn't there a point where you just don't clap anymore?

They probably hate it too but have to do what they're told or quickly be replaced. Those guys probably make big money and have the big debts that often go along with it and can't afford not to grin and bear it. Seems to me, on a day like this, they should maybe show the janitor quietly sweeping up all the paper on the floor in that big room and let it go at that.

When I in sales I worked in a couple offices where it became quickly apparent that one never said "Happy Friday!" or anything similar or be shamed by the sales manager for implying you'd rather be anywhere except at work. 4:45 PM on a Friday afternoon and you're not on the phone? "I want five more calls before you leave. You need to close a deal TODAY!"

These were the same managers who wanted their mostly young employees to be hobbled by car payments so they'd be extra-motivated (or extra-scared) to meet their quotas. "Who drives that green piece-of-shit Toyota?! Don't you have any self-respect?!" I stood up and walked out of my final sales job in a boiler room many years ago, drove away in my green Toyota, and stumbled into something totally different from sales that I still do today. It was one of the best things I ever did.

Sorry for having story time here, but I guess my point is it's sad to see so many people selling their souls in the pursuit of money. We all have to work, but we don't have to let the bastards grind us down like this sorry loser and his Republican colleagues continue to do.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/1XrKah-7oY-okfYIZDxDB2HW3-0=/1023x0/smart/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/MXC2DNZAY45NBM5JOGVLP3NUPQ.png

By the way, I hope Senator Cruz isn't sick. I just learned about his voluntary self-quarantine while googling for that picture. While I criticize him politically, I don't wish him any harm, of course.

[Yw-slayer]

No, it's ok to wish people harm if they are twats.

[George]

He's a pretty low-level twat, as far as I know. I'll save my voodoo doll needles for those higher up the current chain of command.

[Yw-slayer]

If he were to die, I'd hold a party and break out the champagne.

[neanderthal]

He and his ilk enable Trump, ... babies in cages. Stick as many pins in that voodoo doll as you wish!

And for all the healthcare naysayers, all those trying to erase/ eliminate Obamacare and or take away our healthcare; a pox upon them. Specifically this COVID 19.

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/shortcuts/2018/oct/23/lyin-ted-cruz-is-now-beautiful-ted-how-a-change-of-nickname-reveals-trumps-midterm-fears

[21Kid]

Warren had a thought out plan for basically everything, but being thorough isn’t a big seller among voters, apparently.

See Trump '16:
I will give you the best healthcare!
I'll keep you safe. Mexico will pay for the wall!
I alone can fix everything!

Trump cult: WOOOOOOO!!!!!!


I'm all for having a plan. But, bullet-points suffice for now.
They can bust out the hundred+ pages of plans when it comes to implementing something. The general public doesn't have that long of an attention span.

[neanderthal]

See Trump '16:
I will give you the best healthcare!
I'll keep you safe. Mexico will pay for the wall!
I alone can fix everything!

Trump cult: WOOOOOOO!!!!!!


I'm all for having a plan. But, bullet-points suffice for now.
They can bust out the hundred+ pages of plans when it comes to implementing something. The general public doesn't have that long of an attention span.

Trump's lies in 2016 *need to be the ads that Democrats run* against him. Especially in light of this corona virus thing.

[Rikadyn]

https://www.salon.com/2020/03/09/there-is-hard-data-that-shows-bernie-bros-are-a-myth/

[FaultyMario]

What? a propaganda myth manufactured and pushed by MSNBC is working as intended? GTFO!

What's next, MSNBC wants to profit off the DNC as FOX has from the Republican party? Yo so crazy!!

Btw, Hate, Inc. (https://www.orbooks.com/catalog/hate-inc/) does a good job of explaining the business of political communications. Totally worth a read.

[FaultyMario]

Wild mood swings. (https://twitter.com/natashakorecki/status/1237381866837196802)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Unless the poll figures are way off, looks like Sanders bid is finished...

Can't start no revolution without people's support. When the diverse field began to narrow, it's obvious that people didn't choose to line up behind Sanders. Not even Warren and her supporters! That's just the reality of the situation. I don't like that, but I can certainly understand.

The question now is whether if enough people want normalcy back on the conservative side. If so, then we can get status quo back! Status quo > Trump I guess. Whatever kind of Biden mood swings or gaffes would be gazillion times better than Trump's.

I think the DNC learned their lessons from the GOP regarding how to fight off an anti-establishment candidate. Also Bernie Sanders is just too nice compared to Donald Trump, unlike his bros. Trump won't even fight fair, but Sanders continually referred to other politicians as his friends... and it's obvious now that none of his 'friends' really like him... ;)

Anyway, not entirely sure if Andrew Yang can really pick up where Bernie left off, but hopefully the ideas will continue.

Status quo is simply not sustainable. Black lives can give life to the democratic establishment, and surely black lives can take it away if they don't take care of them...

[FaultyMario]

unlike his bros. .

That's an urban legend that has been rebuked (https://twitter.com/Berning4Us/status/1237425837009440769) by science!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Doesn’t matter, just like her emails. If something is able to stick, it’ll stick...

Point is that Bernie himself should’ve made a tougher stand. Is he okay with his ‘friends’, who don’t really like him to continue thr status quo or not? Sounds like he’s okay with that... so voters listened! ;)

[FaultyMario]

[The American] political system is unconcerned with fixing what’s broken. (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/884kvk/why-the-us-sucks-at-building-public-transit)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, but who cares about public transportation?

This clip shows who Biden really is. Even if for whatever miracle, we end up with the best congress ever, that M4A is passed, he would veto it. Yeah yeah, healthcare should be a right, but it's just too expensive. I can't ask the rich to pay for it, I can't ask the middle class to pay for it, let's just maintain status quo and kick that problem to the next election cycle... that's the pragmatic thing to do, right?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WBnQQ-Fa-s

Still to be fair to Biden, he is running the right campaign focusing on 'NOW'. People wants normalcy 'NOW'... I'm not even sure if Obama could win if he were to run 2020. People just don't have the patience to hope for better future...

America's political/economical system is kind of 'now' driven. What will this effect the bottomline NOW? Who really cares about decades down the road?

[Rikadyn]

A las barricadas. Voted but no faith in electoralism

[Crazed_Insanity]

A las barricadas. Voted but no faith in electoralism

It's still better than authoritarianism! :)

[Rikadyn]

It's still better than authoritarianism! :)

But not as good as anarcho-syndicalism

[Tom Servo]

I dunno, I've always been a fan of farcical aquatic ceremonies.

[JoshInKC]

"Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system!"

[neanderthal]

Biden wins Mississippi and Missouri and is projected to win Michigan.

[neanderthal]

Andrew Yang endorses Joe Biden.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, if sanders can’t defeat Biden in Michigan, how can he defeat Trump?

Game over...

You’ll always have a special place in our hearts Bernie Sanders! Thank you for all you have done(or not done)! ;) Either way, you’re inspirational to some of us. Some of us like you very much! :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Andrew Yang endorses Joe Biden.

That means Biden’s onboard with UBI?!?!? I find that hard to believe.

Ok, just saw the CNN clip, he’s basically saying Bernie needs to face the MATH and starts to endorse Biden too. Voters have spoken.

I have to agree with him... :(

[neanderthal]

I'm thinking of all those tweets saying we "will bend the knee" and Sanders triumphantly declaring he doesn't need the establishment democrats votes.

Five years of campaigning for this job. Rejected soundly the first time. Rejected ... more soundly the second.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Are you still angry?

If we lose to Trump again, it’ll again be Sanders fault?

I hope Sander will follow Andrew Yangs lead by endorsing Biden soon...

[neanderthal]

Any vote not for Biden is a vote for Trump. Just like last time.

And fuck Trump voters!

[Tom Servo]

Tweet I saw earlier: If you're not supposed to touch your face, how am I supposed to hold my nose while voting for Biden?

[neanderthal]

Tried to tell billi (and some other bros) that African Americans will decide the Democratic nominee. He was on that revolution bullshit.

Well, if Bernie was *truly* about the revolution, he'd concede now, tell his followers to enthusiastically back Biden and all the Democrats on the ballot, and use his war chest to support Dem nominees in purple and red states. The we would concentrate on thoroughly defeating Trump and the GOP.

But Bernie won't do that: because it's not about the revolution: it's about him. It's always been about him.
PS; we don't like being called low information voters either.

[neanderthal]

We *did* see Bernie do basically no outreach to the black community, essentially the Democrats most reliable voters, right? It wasn't just me.

I'm talking about the three years he was the only candidate in the race and the last one.

Instead he was busy attacking Democrats ...

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/9e60dvuglyl41.jpg

[Jason]

Hopefully Sanders, Warren, AOC, etc do the right thing and get behind Biden as he wins the nomination. We need a united front. They can still push policy left from their positions in Congress, and their general public popularity. A good olive branch for Biden to take, imo, would be to meet with Sanders at the end of this and adopt one of his policies, like say Green New Deal or something.

[MR2 Fan]

can't wait to see who his running-mate will be...that will be very telling IMO

[dodint]

Andrew Yang endorses Joe Biden.

Biden will enjoy the 0 delegates Yang brought to the table. ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hopefully Sanders, Warren, AOC, etc do the right thing and get behind Biden as he wins the nomination. We need a united front. They can still push policy left from their positions in Congress, and their general public popularity. A good olive branch for Biden to take, imo, would be to meet with Sanders at the end of this and adopt one of his policies, like say Green New Deal or something.

Sanders has always said he will back the eventual nominee. He even backed Hillary Clinton! So I’m not sure why anyone needs to hope for anything in this regard... and I’m still not sure why Neanderthal is still so angry... ;)

Will Biden do what Hillary did or will Biden make a more reconciliatory move remains to be seen. M4A will definitely be out of the question though.

[neanderthal]

Sanders has always said he will back the eventual nominee. He even backed Hillary Clinton! So I’m not sure why anyone needs to hope for anything in this regard... and I’m still not sure why Neanderthal is still so angry...

Will Biden do what Hillary did or will Biden make a more reconciliatory move remains to be seen. M4A will definitely be out of the question though.

Sanders was mathematically eliminated (mid/ late April) (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2016/04/bernie-sanders-refuses-to-quit-a-race-he-cant-win.html) way sooner than he dropped out (July 12th.) As a sore loser, he promised he would take the fight all the way to the convention. Time, capital, resources that could have been used to fight Trump, and help down ballot candidates, was spent still campaigning against Bernie. And he claimed the nominating process was rigged. (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html) Fuck. Bernie. Sanders!

If you want to describe Bernie's support for Hillary last time around it was tantamount to the least a person could do and still say they supported the candidate. Sanders could have had a much better platform in the Democratic party if he'd conceded the second he was mathematically eliminated, If he'd enthusiastically rallied his troops behind our nominee, If he had done all he could to ensure her win. He didn't.

AND ...we changed the rules to accommodate him last time and he was complaining about the rules he shaped after the first contest in Iowa. Fuck him. No reconciling. He can go cry in a corner of one of his 3 luxury homes.

He's the one who was crowing how he didn't need us. And his acolytes were saying we would "bend the knee." That was the tone that he set. Fuck him. He can <checks notes> "go knit sweaters or something."

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dude, if anything, it should be the Bernie bros who should continue to be angry and mean...

Process was rigged last time or at least very close if we ignore superdelegates... even this time, it was an amazing coordinated effort moments before Super Tuesday that revived Biden and killed Sanders. I wonder who's the mastermind behind such masterstroke... probably Obama.

Still, I don’t see what Sanders could do to justify himself to go all the way to the convention this time around. His young voter support clearly have dissipated. Perhaps there were a lot of voters like you... anger energized them to show up to vote against him..., but the lack of the supposedly young supporters who are new to the political process should be the reason why he should admit defeat earlier this time around. (Of course hopefully the progressives can figure out exactly why young voters didn't come out as predicted... maybe because of our low birthrates, there just aren't any more young voters to counter the boomers? ;))

It was close 4 years ago, but this time it’s not even close.

Anyway, all I'm trying to say is try to be a more graceful winner please. You won... or maybe you didn't get the candidate you want..., but at least the candidate you hate lost. If Jim Clyburn could have his way, he also wanted a black female VP on the ticket... so you might get Kamala Harris..., but of course there are plenty other african american female politicians that could fill the job. Be happier dude. Let it go.

My last defense for Sanders shall be... the 'establishment' Sanders' was fighting against was definitely not the african american voters, but the top 1% rich dudes controlling this nation. Sorry for the mix up. I do agree Sanders biggest possible mistake was not paying more attention to the african american voters. Again, I don't think race was the main issue... the white working class who voted for him in 2016 abandoned him for Joe 2020. Based on these statistics, Biden is definitely in a better position to defeat Trump than Sanders. The establishment could orchestrate a concerted effort to convince candidates to drop out, but they can't really play Jedi mind tricks on voters to make them vote for somebody they don't want. Bernie supporters shouldn't blame the mainstream media or the establishment when the tide shifted this drastically. Voters have spoken. Progressives just need to figure out why this happened if they want to start the next revolution.

[neanderthal]

Rigged you say? (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/14/16640082/donna-brazile-warren-bernie-sanders-democratic-primary-rigged)


The irony is that Sanders was a prime beneficiary of this bias, not a victim of it.

An "amazing coordinated effort moments before Super Tuesday that revived Biden and killed Sanders." Wait, you mean Democratic Party members who were previously running, endorsing a Democratic Party member who was still running, was rigging? Colleagues backing one of their own versus ... an outsider (who is hijacking our apparatus, vilifying us at every turn, changed our rules to better suit him last time, complained about those same rules that he helped change, has constantly attacked and belittled our party and members) that's rigging? You should get your delusions checked out.

There's a saying that comes to mind that I can't quite remember. Something ... stones, something ... throwing houses. People living in stone houses shouldn't throw glass maybe? Doesn't quite seem right. I'll mull it over and try to figure it out.

[neanderthal]

Edit; I remember it now; People (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/11/bernie-quietly-goes-negative-on-warren-097594) who (https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/06/26/kfile-bernie-sanders-criticizing-democratic-party-js-orig.cnn/video/playlists/2020-presidential-election/) live (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-democratic-party-independent_n_5e21e4f8c5b632117612f412) in (https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2020/01/12/elizabeth-warren-says-she-hopes-bernie-sanders-reconsiders-volunteers-attacks/4448982002/) glass (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/bernie-sanders-obama-anger-martin-luther-king-death-assassination-jackson-mississippi-a8289456.html) houses (https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/22/politics/bernie-sanders-2020/index.html) shouldn't (https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/22/politics/bernie-sanders-2020/index.html) throw (https://abc3340.com/news/nation-world/democrats-start-early-voting-in-nevada-caucuses) stones. (https://www.kcur.org/post/bernie-sanders-stay-race-despite-key-losses)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Love Bernie or hate Bernie, you have to agree that the democratic establishment had been pretty ineffective in modern history, right? Why should somebody like Bernie be praising about the DNC? What has the DNC accomplished in the WH, Congress and the Supreme Court?

We had 2 popular and cool presidents, Bill Clinton and Obama. However, DNC was never able to mandate anything. We put a black president in office, yet, black lives still complained that their lives don't matter... under his watch!?!?!? Yeah, we could shift the blame to the racist republicans, but I wonder if Obama could've done more.

Do you really believe the democratic party has done no wrong whatsoever? It's just that the Republican Party was too good? Capable of gerrymandering away votes in congress and win the WH without popular votes whenever DNC couldn't come up with a cool young charismatic dude?

If there's no coronavirus, I honestly don't believe Biden has a chance against Trump. Of course, even if Sanders won the nomination, I'm not sure Sanders will be capable of winning over Trump voters either based on these primary results... What worked in the Vermont mayoral race is clearly not working on the national level.

Anyway, hopefully Trump will lose. Fingers crossed.

BTW, just saw that Bernie is 'defiantly' staying in the race and try to do the debate on Sunday. Hope you won't be too upset about that... Just let Biden nail Bernie's coffin on live TV one last time. Bernie is not a bro, he won't really attack his friend Joe too much. Don't worry. Let's see if Biden could really appear more presidential on Sunday and end the race.

IMHO, people have spoken, voters may find Sander's policy positions more appealing, but they like Biden more. I don't think more debates will help Sanders at all. Only way for Bernie to turn this around is if Biden experiences a complete mental breakdown...

[neanderthal]

Washington counts are still coming in and all those projections that showed it almost tied, with Bernie having a lead, seem to have Biden leading now.

[neanderthal]

Love Bernie or hate Bernie, [b]you have to agree that the democratic establishment had been pretty ineffective in modern history, right? Why should somebody like Bernie be praising about the DNC? What has the DNC accomplished in the WH, Congress and the Supreme Court?

We had 2 popular and cool presidents, Bill Clinton and Obama. However, DNC was never able to mandate anything. We put a black president in office, yet, black lives still complained that their lives don't matter... under his watch!?!?!? Yeah, we could shift the blame to the racist republicans, but I wonder if Obama could've done more.

Do you really believe the democratic party has done no wrong whatsoever? It's just that the Republican Party was too good? Capable of gerrymandering away votes in congress and win the WH without popular votes whenever DNC couldn't come up with a cool young charismatic dude?

If there's no coronavirus, I honestly don't believe Biden has a chance against Trump. Of course, even if Sanders won the nomination, I'm not sure Sanders will be capable of winning over Trump voters either based on these primary results... What worked in the Vermont mayoral race is clearly not working on the national level.

Anyway, hopefully Trump will lose. Fingers crossed.

BTW, just saw that Bernie is 'defiantly' staying in the race and try to do the debate on Sunday. Hope you won't be too upset about that... Just let Biden nail Bernie's coffin on live TV one last time. Bernie is not a bro, he won't really attack his friend Joe too much. Don't worry. Let's see if Biden could really appear more presidential on Sunday and end the race.

IMHO, people have spoken, voters may find Sander's policy positions more appealing, but they like Biden more. I don't think more debates will help Sanders at all. Only way for Bernie to turn this around is if Biden experiences a complete mental breakdown...

I vehemently disagree. (https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/marchapril-2012/obamas-top-50-accomplishments/) You're not going to get validation from me on your wrong assertions. The article would seem to agree with me too.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You vehemently disagree with everything I said?!?!?

Okay. Whatever. Who really cares anyways? ;)

[neanderthal]

You vehemently disagree with everything I said?!?!?

Okay. Whatever. Who really cares anyways? ;)

You started with a bald faced lie
you have to agree that the democratic establishment had been pretty ineffective in modern history, right? and i'm not going to gloss over that. Read the article and reassess everything you know about Democrats.

Mind you, that's just in the last Democratic administration. If you go further back you'll find even more amazing things that have been done by ... <checks notes> "establishment Democrats."


Maybe you should read up on what's been happening in (northern?) Virginia since the mid term elections only two years ago.

It's 2020. Google is still free, yet here you are refuting commonly known happenings.

I think you wear glasses. It's time you went and got a new pair. You seem to see everything through an anti Democratic Party lens and, last I checked, that is the territory of Republicans and the tea party left, oh, ... never mind. Now it makes sense.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I just got a new pair of glasses! :p

Anyway, I can’t really speak for Bernie Sanders but I suspect I’m like him... and I can certainly be critical of the Democratic Party, but I’m pretty sure Bernie and I won’t ever even consider joining the Republican Party. We’re only critical of the DNC because we want it to be better.

As for all other stuff, let’s just agree to disagree.

[neanderthal]

You can't agree to disagree when there's facts involved! :smh:

Are you disputing the passing of the Affordable Care Act? The Lily Ledbetter Act? The draw down of troops from Iraq? The repeal of "don't ask, don't tell?" Etc

You don't get to state your own "facts" as an alternative to actual known historical facts. :rolleyes:

[Crazed_Insanity]

I didn’t realize Obamacare has solved all our healthcare problems?

Yes, I know congress and even Supreme Court are not helping either...

But that just highlights Democrat’s ineffectiveness.

Those republican assholes have done nothing to solve our healthcare crisis, yet they have supporters voting for them keeping them in office!

Here democrats are trying to solve problems, remove a corrupt president, but just cannot get the job done for some reason.

To be fair, Sanders has been similarly ineffective this primary season. If he can’t even beat Biden, I kinda doubt he could bear Trump. Progressives need to regroup and rethink their strategy. Likewise I hope DNC can take constructive criticisms and become more effective.

[neanderthal]

You're changing the goalposts, as always. Did I say, insinuate, or even intimate that Obamacare solved all of our healthcare problems? No. Was that brought up by you in your previous post? No. The facts remain the Democrats have passed plenty of legislation that has done a lot to better our society.

Now, list for us the legislation the progressives have passed. We will wait.

[Yw-slayer]

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/11/us/us-health-care-system-coronavirus/index.html Yes, of course cnn has its own agenda. The key is to recognise and deal with it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You're changing the goalposts, as always. Did I say, insinuate, or even intimate that Obamacare solved all of our healthcare problems? No. Was that brought up by you in your previous post? No. The facts remain the Democrats have passed plenty of legislation that has done a lot to better our society.

Now, list for us the legislation the progressives have passed. We will wait.

Are you kidding me? How many progressives are in congress? How many votes are needed to pass laws?

Anyway, like I said, let’s just agree to disagree. I just read an article that helped me feel much better... https://apple.news/A5OHcm80KQqmG6oTTiXDT_w

Let’s just agree on Joe for now...

[neanderthal]

Are you kidding me? How many progressives are in congress? How many votes are needed to pass laws?

Anyway, like I said, let’s just agree to disagree. I just read an article that helped me feel much better... https://apple.news/A5OHcm80KQqmG6oTTiXDT_w

Let’s just agree on Joe for now...

So you understand that votes are needed to pass laws when progressives are on the spot, but you don't when Democrats are?

Because I tried to tell you that we don't control the Senate and that the worst. Congress. ever. stymied President Obama at every turn, but I guess that's your style. Reality is a bitch innit?

[neanderthal]

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/11/us/us-health-care-system-coronavirus/index.html Yes, of course cnn has its own agenda. The key is to recognise and deal with it.

I just saw an article yesterday or the day before saying Olive Garden will, from henceforth, make sure all their personnel had paid sick time. On one hand i was ... :rawk:

On the other, is this what it took? :sadbanana:

[Rikadyn]

https://i.imgur.com/cp5iAnF.png

[FaultyMario]

First as tragedy, then as a farce.

[neanderthal]

Democratic controlled CONGRESS passes a paid sick leave bill. Stymied by Republicans in the Senate.

But billi's harsh words aren't ever directed at the Republicans. :rolleyes:

[Crazed_Insanity]

It’s a tragic farce.

[neanderthal]

It’s a tragic farce fact.

Fixed that for you.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Okay, let’s just agree on that.

Glad we can finally agree on something...

[MR2 Fan]

Dow Jones sees biggest percentage drop since 1987...and that's just TODAY after a week of massive drops. Meanwhile, the GOP's heads are in the sand

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, when you can't watch sports or movies or concerts and you can't travel whether by planes, cruise ships or auto and when we all cut back on oil consumption... and various productions rely on just in time delivery of parts from China... These across the board reductions or outright cuts can't possibly help the stock market.

So it's the perfect time to buy buy buy if you have the extra cash! ;)

It's the perfect condition for Andrew Yang's UBI or Bernie Sanders' M4A, but unfortunately the timing is a bit off. Voters have voted them off already.

Now we can only resort to the usual bitch and whine against the Republicans for obstructing and doing nothing...

[Rikadyn]

Now we can only resort to the usual bitch and whine against the Republicans for obstructing and doing nothing...


if the state is the product of the irreconcilability of class antagonisms, if it is a power standing above society and “alienating itself more and more from it”, it is clear that the liberation of the oppressed class is impossible not only without a violent revolution, but also without the destruction of the apparatus of state power which was created by the ruling class and which is the embodiment of this “alienation”.
..

[MR2 Fan]

I just realized that it's now technically unsafe to do mass protests about this (in person)

[Crazed_Insanity]

..

Who said that?

Anyway, I don’t believe violent revolutions are absolutely necessary. Voters are smarter than that.

I think in 2016, there were probably more hatred for Hillary... this time around I think there’s more hatred for Bernie...

Anyway, Obama has shown that it is possible to win votes, we just need somebody as charismatic as Obama and as passionate and caring for the working class as Sanders in the future. Warren is supposed to be that person but I’m having doubts about her authenticity... is she Cherokee? is she republican? Will she ever endorse Sanders? I’m liking her less after this primary race...

Anyway, if that ideal candidate never happens, then I’d agree with your quote. Sooner or later US govt will collapse as it maintains this status quo. Of course if we maintains this status trump, we’d collapse sooner. (Need to make sure Neanderthal sees me attack the republicans too!)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I just realized that it's now technically unsafe to do mass protests about this (in person)

Isn't that cool? You can't occupy wall st no more!

And get this... while Trump considers some sort of payroll tax cut... (assuming workers are not laid off...)

Fed pumped $1.5 trillion dollars to wall street.

We don't have the money for M4A, UBI for average americans..., but we always have the money to bail out rich people. Isn't that weird?

[FaultyMario]

Revolutions are as necessary in late capitalism as they were in modern times.

The revolution is a human necessity.

[FaultyMario]

Stocks jump from session lows as Fed announces it will pump more than $500 billion into short-term bank funding, expand types of security purchases


How ah we gun pay foh that?

##

[MR2 Fan]

1.5 Trillion and the stock market reacts by losing 10% today

[FaultyMario]

Is Bloomberg giving advise? He never stopped to?

[FaultyMario]

1.5 Trillion and the stock market reacts by losing 10% today


New York City is now under a state of emergency. Just declared moments by Mayor DiBlasio.

[Rikadyn]

Isn't that cool? You can't occupy wall st no more!

And get this... while Trump considers some sort of payroll tax cut... (assuming workers are not laid off...)

Fed pumped $1.5 trillion dollars to wall street.

We don't have the money for M4A, UBI for average americans..., but we always have the money to bail out rich people. Isn't that weird?

Which is why electoralism is ultimately futile, you can vote but only on candidates approved by the capitalist class. Revolutions only turn violent because the state seeks to have a monopoly on violence (police/military)

Ps. My quote comes from State and Revolution by V. Lenin

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, revolutions may be necessary when push comes to shove, but what happens after the revolution? What kind of government will you set up if we're not having authoritarian kings/dictators nor some sort of electoral democracy?

Democracy is obviously not perfect, but I think it's the best we've come up with so far.

[FaultyMario]

You're confusing revolution with revolt.

You're confusing representation with democracy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, revolt or revolution, I'm not absolutely against them..., just saying we don't always have to resort to violence.

As for democracy, do I really need to separate out govt truly representing voters' will? What kind of democracy would that be if elected officials ignore those who they suppose to represent? I'm certainly not advocating that kind of democracy.

Regardless of how our election processes may be meddled, manipulated or gamed, at least we still have such a process to try to make it work out without the need for violence.

[Rikadyn]

What kind of democracy would that be if elected officials ignore those who they suppose to represent? I'm certainly not advocating that kind of democracy.

American?

https://crimethinc.com/2016/04/29/feature-from-democracy-to-freedom

[Jason]

This is all breaking my brain a bit

[Tom Servo]

A Politico reporter on NPR's Fresh Air is saying that Trump chose not to pursue testing for coronavirus because testing might bring the known infected numbers up, which would look bad for him and would hurt his re-election campaign.



In the case of Alex Azar, he did go to the President in January, he did push past resistance from the president's political aides to warn the president the new coronavirus could be a major problem. There were aides around Trump, Kellyanne Conway had some skepticism at times, that this was something that needed to be a presidential priority.

But at the same time, Secretary Azar has not always given the president the worst case scenario of what could happen. My understanding is he [President Trump] did not push to do aggressive additional testing in recent weeks, and that's partly because more testing might have led to more cases being discovered of coronavirus outbreak, and the president has made it clear the lower the numbers on coronavirus, the better for the president, the better for his potential reelection this fall."


https://www.npr.org/2020/03/12/814881355/white-house-knew-coronavirus-would-be-a-major-threat-but-response-fell-short

This is one reporter's word, but it does jibe with public statements Trump has made, specifically about not wanting to let the Grand Princess cruise ship dock because he likes "the numbers being where they are. I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault".

[Yw-slayer]

I can't see how his reaction should surprise anyone.

[Crazed_Insanity]

American?

https://crimethinc.com/2016/04/29/feature-from-democracy-to-freedom

Ha!

Thanks for that link! What a enlightening read!

[neanderthal]

I can't see how his reaction should surprise anyone.

I expect nothing less from tRump.

Congrats Trumpers this is what you wrought.

[FaultyMario]

Rep. Katie Porter (CA45) has superpowers. She secured a commitment from CDC's director to use his legal authority to ensure covid testing regardless of insurance coverage. During a congress hearing.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That’s very nice.

However, I wonder if such commitment would end up bankrupting the CDC! ;)

We really need a version of very basic universal healthcare that’ll cover all Americans and all legal/illegal aliens to have free tests and treatments!

Just ask the federal reserve to print a few more bucks... because if we don’t fix this, market is going to crash!!!

[neanderthal]

Rep. Katie Porter (CA45) has superpowers. She secured a commitment from CDC's director to use his legal authority to ensure covid testing regardless of insurance coverage. During a congress hearing.

She is a fucking bad ass.

Initially he dodged the question, but she stuck to it and got him to say yes.

[Yw-slayer]

That's impressive. Good on her! That is, if the country has enough kits and allows people to be tested. See Italy.

[neanderthal]

That’s very nice.

However, I wonder if such commitment would end up bankrupting the CDC! ;)

We really need a version of very basic universal healthcare that’ll cover all Americans and all legal/illegal aliens to have free tests and treatments!

Just ask the federal reserve to print a few more bucks... because if we don’t fix this, market is going to crash!!!

:facepalm

The market has already crashed. It crashed Tuesday and they cut trading short. Yesterday, same thing. Today.

It's 20 fucking 20 billi. keep up.

Oh, and the "fuse" that cuts trading if the market sinks beyond a certain percentage in one day; yes, thank President Obama. Thank "establishment Democrats." You're welcome.

[neanderthal]

That's impressive. Good on her! That is, if the country has enough kits and allows people to be tested. See Italy.

Somebody in Trump admin was boasting about the number of people who were tested in the last month. South Korea tests that many a day.

[neanderthal]

Washington counts are still coming in and all those projections that showed it almost tied, with Bernie having a lead, seem to have Biden leading now.

Count at 89% Biden still leading but it's less than 1%. If that holds it means Bernie won only North Dakota on Super Tuesday II. A veritable rout.