Politics

[George]

Rep. Katie Porter (CA45) has superpowers. She secured a commitment from CDC's director to use his legal authority to ensure covid testing regardless of insurance coverage. During a congress hearing.

Wow! And she pulled out a whiteboard and a marker and showed the math! Okay, maybe that's a carnival barker trick, and it reminded me of Ross Perot with his charts and graphs, but I thought it was great.

One of the comments I saw under the video was someone saying "I can't wait to vote for her for president!". Based only on that video clip, I agree.

[Yw-slayer]

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/coronavirus-shows-us-america-is-broken.html

Of course, the writer has an angle/agenda (as with every article). Please compensate accordingly.

[neanderthal]

"Bernie alienates his natural allies. His holier- than- thou- attitude, saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone else, really undercuts his effectiveness." Barney Frank. 1991

In other words, Bernie has had plenty of time to learn and grow and change.

He's chosen not to.

[neanderthal]

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/coronavirus-shows-us-america-is-broken.html

Of course, the writer has an angle/agenda (as with every article). Please compensate accordingly.

That, indeed, is quite a compelling article.

[Crazed_Insanity]

"Bernie alienates his natural allies. His holier- than- thou- attitude, saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone else, really undercuts his effectiveness." Barney Frank. 1991

In other words, Bernie has had plenty of time to learn and grow and change.

He's chosen not to.

Main reason why I love that old man is precisely because he doesn’t change! :D

[Crazed_Insanity]

:facepalm

The market has already crashed. It crashed Tuesday and they cut trading short. Yesterday, same thing. Today.

It's 20 fucking 20 billi. keep up.

Oh, and the "fuse" that cuts trading if the market sinks beyond a certain percentage in one day; yes, thank President Obama. Thank "establishment Democrats." You're welcome.

You think markets done crashing?

Anyway, my point was fed needs to pump money to local hospitals next time if they really want to save the market!

[Crazed_Insanity]

That, indeed, is quite a compelling article.

Yes! China broke America! Good job! Let’s all thank and praise China!

YW really should worry more about fixing Hong Kong rather than worrying about America.

[neanderthal]

Yes! China broke America! Good job! Let’s all thank and praise China!

YW really should worry more about fixing Hong Kong rather than worrying about America.

Clearly you didn't read the fucking article! Typical, all yap, no substance.

The article clearly identifies shortcomings in our healthcare, planning, leadership as our biggest issues. Why am i not surprised?

[neanderthal]

You think markets done crashing?

Anyway, my point was fed needs to pump money to local hospitals next time if they really want to save the market!

Yes. The feds pumping money into hospitals is what will fix the market. :rolleyes:

That's what will reopen Disneyland, fill up the flights, uncancel reservations at restaurants, reopen schools, allow NBA games to resume etc. hospitals. Which are NOT the first point of contact for most people who need medical care.

Do you ever think before you type or you just state the first stupid inane thing that enters your mind.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So you’re saying pumping money to all the corporations is more important than having healthier population?

Anyway, I don’t need to read that stupid article to know that our healthcare is broken. Isn’t it obvious? Otherwise why we’re trying to get rid of trump? Why am I still trying to have sanders push M4A?

Maybe you can go praise and thank China with YW.

[Yw-slayer]

Lol. I wish I hadn't clicked Show Spoiler.

That said, I have far better things to do than to reply to rubbish like that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, you go so what you gotta do. At least Trump is only temporary and I’m sure America will eventually solve her problems... whereas good luck to you with your dicktator Xi.

[Yw-slayer]

Here, another opinion piece. Please adjust for bias.

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/12/21176750/trump-coronavirus-response-disaster

Also one here, please also adjust for bias.

https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3074692/trumps-america-risks-repeating-chinas-early-mistakes-coronavirus

[FaultyMario]

Socialism is bad, you peasants! (https://theintercept.com/2020/03/12/matt-gaetz-florida-paid-sick-leave-coronavirus/)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hope the conservative America will rethink their stance against socialism thanks to COVFEFE19...

Hope Sanders can make a great case for his M4A Sunday during his final debate...

Hope Biden continues to insist why America can't afford healthcare for all...

Biggest hope is for Trump to go poof next year!!!

[MR2 Fan]

Dotard Trump really is by far the stupidest "president" we've ever had

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes..., I truly never ever thought anyone could beat W's record... he's really making me regretting voting for Jill Stein..., but anyway, even if I vote for Hillary, it wouldn't matter. I don't live in a swing state...

I wonder what Trump supporters are thinking right now....

[MR2 Fan]

if they're smart they're saying STOP SHAKING HANDS YOU FUCKING MORON!!!

[Crazed_Insanity]

American?

https://crimethinc.com/2016/04/29/feature-from-democracy-to-freedom

I finally finished reading that entire thing... so I'd like to discuss this further....

So am I understanding the author correctly? (btw, who is the author, I can't find a name in that link...) Anyway, so he's saying the ideal society would be like some sort of horizontal and decentralized network of people... so kinda like anti-Borg? To somehow able to still do things collectively, but without a queen or hive mind restricting individual freedom, right?

Not really sure how that can be achievable, but one thing we can do is to reduce the size of governments/institutions to as small as possible. Any of our institutions being too big to fail probably puts us on the wrong path...

[Rikadyn]

It's probably written by the group itself, not really one author but a collective voice so no names. Crimethinc is an Anarchist collective.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So do you think I understood what the author(s) ideas?

Anyway, very interesting read... I wonder if the anarchist collective meets the Borg Cube... who'd win? :D

[MR2 Fan]

Good thing I just read..for those wondering if Trump will try to cancel the November election due to this crisis or whatever else he dreams up..........literally if there is no new Presidential election by January 20th, the Speaker of the House legally becomes President.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Good, we are in no danger of having a dictator, right?

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://apple.news/AL0QEL0kWQ-GNNQfl4_46Og

Former judge resigned fro Supreme Court bar... criticizing the lameness of its conservative majority. Right on!

[neanderthal]

So you’re saying pumping money to all the corporations is more important than having healthier population?

Anyway, I don’t need to read that stupid article to know that our healthcare is broken. Isn’t it obvious? Otherwise why we’re trying to get rid of trump? Why am I still trying to have sanders push M4A?

Maybe you can go praise and thank China with YW.

You argue with the focus of an addled chipmunk.

Nowhere in the quote I quoted did you mention having a healthier population. YOU stated that "Trump should fix the economy by putting money in hospitals." You said that shit, not me.

[neanderthal]

Lol. I wish I hadn't clicked Show Spoiler.

That said, I have far better things to do than to reply to rubbish like that.

I need to bleach my brain after his mumblings. I think he's firmly back on ignore.

[Yw-slayer]

Might as well, since he has now decided that you and I hate freedom and democracy. :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

You argue with the focus of an addled chipmunk.

Nowhere in the quote I quoted did you mention having a healthier population. YOU stated that "Trump should fix the economy by putting money in hospitals." You said that shit, not me.

Yes, I said it. I don’t know what is your problem with what I said.

My friends, please choose to be more reasonable.

In this particular incidence, is it really that unreasonable to pump more money to our hospitals? Would pumping money to hospitals help or hurt markets?

Do you have problems with my suggestion of giving more funding to hospitals? Why?

Do you actually agree that fed should continue to pump money into the market to stop it from crashing? You really think that’ll be more effective?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Might as well, since he has now decided that you and I hate freedom and democracy. :lol:

I sincerely hope you guys stick to your own ignore features. I really don’t understand what is wrong with you guys.

A middle class black person who thinks he is part of the top 1% of the Democratic establishment...

And a lover of freedom and democracy who also admires the CCP and thought HK protesters are bunch of morons.

Good luck with you guys. It’s best we stop talking to one another.

[Rikadyn]

So do you think I understood what the author(s) ideas?

Anyway, very interesting read... I wonder if the anarchist collective meets the Borg Cube... who'd win? :D

More or less. CWC is good for making digestible and approachable content for the most part, but for more complete answers you eventually need to read political theory.

There have been periods of time when burgeoning anarchist movements have tried to be born (cnt/cgt in Catalonia during ww2((Homage to Catalonia is a good book)) , Paris commune in 68, Ukraine free territory) but most are usually brutally crushed by outside forces or end in betrayal (historically anarchist and Marxist communists are enemies)

That being the case they have played a lot of roles in history, like the whole labor movement from post civil war to ww1 was strongly influenced by socialist theory (anarchism and Marxism are socialist theories)

Anyway, if you want a longer read I would recommend something like "Mutual Aid: a factor in evolution" and "Conquest of Bread" by Kropotkin. More modern start with stuff by David Graber.

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/ul8wv72p5gm41.png

[FaultyMario]

There have been periods of time when burgeoning anarchist movements have tried to be born (cnt/cgt in Catalonia during ww2((Homage to Catalonia is a

That being the case they have played a lot of roles in history, like the whole labor movement from post civil war to ww1 was strongly influenced by socialist theory (anarchism and Marxism are socialist theories)

The Cherán municipality in cartel-riddled Michoacán Is a close example, as well.

[Crazed_Insanity]

More or less. CWC is good for making digestible and approachable content for the most part, but for more complete answers you eventually need to read political theory.

There have been periods of time when burgeoning anarchist movements have tried to be born (cnt/cgt in Catalonia during ww2((Homage to Catalonia is a good book)) , Paris commune in 68, Ukraine free territory) but most are usually brutally crushed by outside forces or end in betrayal (historically anarchist and Marxist communists are enemies)

That being the case they have played a lot of roles in history, like the whole labor movement from post civil war to ww1 was strongly influenced by socialist theory (anarchism and Marxism are socialist theories)

Anyway, if you want a longer read I would recommend something like "Mutual Aid: a factor in evolution" and "Conquest of Bread" by Kropotkin. More modern start with stuff by David Graber.

Thanks for the tips! I’ll try to read thru them...

Although I have to admit I still have reservations regarding the practicality of anarchy collective though... Borgs can be effective but obviously not some we want, but I’m not so sure how can we completely remove hierarchy in societies... anyway, I’ll try to dig into this with your reading list. Thanks again!

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://i.redd.it/ul8wv72p5gm41.png

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry about that...

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/m7wyeekafjm41.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dude, stop posting crap that confuses me emotionally! :p

[sandydandy]

The world markets, (and world in general), are plunging into chaos. Yet America’s fearless leader is tweeting away bragging about the big stock market rise yesterday. Is this guy for real?

[MR2 Fan]

I really didn't expect virus in early 2020 to be the global existential threat to make everyone wake up and pay attention to things, but here we are....at least in the U.S. it's about to get a whole lot worse I fear

[Crazed_Insanity]

Primaries postponed! Giving Sanders a chance to break Biden’s momentum?

Or maybe everything will be postponed and we’ll finally get our very 1st Madam president(Pelosi)?

[Jason]

I'm honestly a bit concerned with how old many of our representatives, judicial appointees, and nominees are. If we don't get a handle on things, we could see some political turmoil outside of our usual red/blue fights.

[neanderthal]

I'm honestly a bit concerned with how old many of our representatives, judicial appointees, and nominees are. If we don't get a handle on things, we could see some political turmoil outside of our usual red/blue fights.

Definitely something to think about.

[Crazed_Insanity]

How very thoughtful. (This is for Jason btw)

However, I’m sure these politicians along with those old dudes on wall st and Silicon Valley have bunkers to hide in... and should they get sick, I kinda doubt they won’t be able to somehow find treatments...

In the unlikely event that they die, luckily we still have younger politicians to take over...

In all honestly, I’m more worried for my own aging parents. My dad recently needs regular dialysis, if he’s infected, it’ll probably be game over for him.

[Rikadyn]

Dude, stop posting crap that confuses me emotionally! :p

No.

Btw, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/mqapm97jenm41.png

[Crazed_Insanity]

No.

Btw, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism

This I can be onboard with. Anarchists need still to be anchored onto something in order to work out as a collective I think..., and Jesus is perhaps the only ruler who won’t ever oppress...

[neanderthal]

Bernie supporters from the ... "dirt bag left" are ... um, ... helpfully suggesting that the elderly avoid going out to vote, lest they get infected by the corona virus. (https://twitter.com/ChazBono/status/1239020122066411521?s=19)

Yes, I used infection for something that's a virus and not an infection.

Yes, I called them the dirt bag left.

[neanderthal]

I forgot there's a completely unnecessary (https://twitter.com/girlsreallyrule/status/1239190761171816450?s=19) debate tonight.

[dodint]

Bernie has no legitimate shot. No idea what Biden has to gain from this.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That’s exactly the strategy! Bernie has nothing to lose! I’m surprised DNC didn’t just brush Bernie off and cancel the event.

Plus, it’s not like there are other concerts or ball games for you to go to...

If the momentum still doesn’t shift, I’m sure Bernie will endorse his friend Biden. Bernie endorsed Hillary, didn’t he? Just enjoy the show! If you believe in Biden, watch him make a fool out of Bernie and make him go away. If Biden’s own weakness caused his momentum to collapse, then its better that it happens before the general election.

[Jason]

Biden is having a strong debate, and signing on to a Warren/Sanders plan was a good play. Sanders goal is more to push Biden left at this point, imo. Would love to see Biden get on with a pragmatic M4A plan like Warren's but I'm not sure if that's realistic.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If corona virus isn’t good enough case for M4A, we probably will never see it within our lifetime...

If Sanders could really succeed in pulling Biden more to the left around Warren territory..., yeah, we can probably all be a bit happier... except for Neanderthal of course. :p

[Jason]

Sandy Hook wasn't enough for gun control, so yeah... M4A has a long ways to go. Doesn't matter if a majority of the country supports it, if our representatives don't.

[neanderthal]

Sandy Hook wasn't enough for gun control, so yeah... M4A has a long ways to go. Doesn't matter if a majority of the country supports it, if our representatives don't.

The there is the fact that M4A is different from the Korean model (buy in) is different from UHC which is different from... which many M4A advocates don't even know.

M4A isn't even the best universal health care system there is. Is it better than what we have now; probably. Is it the best? :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

We’re all pragmatists. Nobody’s expecting the best, just something that can affordably cover everyone. If Bidencare could accomplish it, great!

I just don’t understand the reason why a liberal president would find the idea of healthcare for all so offensive or worrisome that he’d veto such law.

Or perhaps Biden’s employing reverse psychology to try to trick republican congress to obstruct him by actually passing it with super majority to try to make him look bad? That’d be super clever of him! ;)

[neanderthal]

Pragmatists don't vote third party. There is that small inconvenient fact.

[MR2 Fan]

Stock Market trading halted after THREE minutes since stocks were diving so badly....now it's down 11% from Friday

[neanderthal]

Stock Market trading halted after THREE minutes since stocks were diving so badly....now it's down 11% from Friday

In a sense it's just delaying the inevitable.

[FaultyMario]

Stock Market trading halted after THREE minutes since stocks were diving so badly....now it's down 11% from Friday

What are you talking about? What happened to best economy ever?

That's like saying that a guy who learned about economics by bankrupting his own casino was wrong all along!!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Pragmatists don't vote third party. There is that small inconvenient fact.

You talking to me? Are you talking to me? I thought I'm on ignore?

Even pragmatists can dream... and dreamers can be pragmatic at times...

Back to the only entertainment on Sunday... Although I only saw portions of the debate, I think it's safe to say that Biden didn't 'collapse' on the debate stage as I had hoped... Anyway, point is that I kinda doubt that Bernie successfully change the momentum much. I think you've won. Hope you're happier?

Also, I don't hate Biden as much as Hillary so I can vote for him this time.

Nevertheless, my vote probably still won't make any difference whatsoever... Hope Trump supporters will see the light during general election...

[neanderthal]

99% of votes in and Biden won Washington, which had been too close to call all this time.

So Bernie only got N Dakota on Super Tuesday II. :)

[MR2 Fan]

Meanwhile in Ohio they're having Schrodinger's primary...it both is and isn't happening.

Governor requested to postpone...tonight, judge denied the request.....now Governor ordered it closed due to health emergency....

[neanderthal]

Meanwhile in Ohio they're having Schrodinger's primary...it both is and isn't happening.

Governor requested to postpone...tonight, judge denied the request.....now Governor ordered it closed due to health emergency....

That's going to be worse than that clusterfuck of a fuckery of that Idaho caucus.

All the more reason to go to a vote by mail system.
I've got to see who I talk to about that here in Tejas.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Meanwhile in Ohio they're having Schrodinger's primary...it both is and isn't happening.



:lol:

In all fairness, I really don’t understand why they can’t cancel/delay it considering what’s happening...

[FaultyMario]

In all fairness, I really don’t understand why they can’t cancel/delay it considering what’s happening...

Ever heard of rule of law?

I'm confident the judge would have wanted to postpone but found no grounds in the request that swayed him that way.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Why are you so confident that a judge can’t make a poor judgment?

Maybe the governor made a better call?

Law is dead. What is the spirit of the law? People must risk their lives to vote? Absolutely no delays? Why is today so important?

Come November, if covfefe19 is still out of control, certainly will not go to a polling place to vote and will just mail in ballot. The the entire process is just messed up, we should just let Pelosi be the interim prez... that should still be in accordance with the law.

[FaultyMario]

Sure, all judges do make bad calls.

But every call they make must be grounded in arguments that stem from the law. Perhaps the governor made the better judgement, BUT it is the judge's duty to not break the law.

The petitioner can make the request again. I'm sure the sentence will include a number of observations from which the new request could be argued.

It only means that every scope of human action (engineering, accounting, law) has its own logic and sense. There is no such thing as a sense that is common to all of them.

[MR2 Fan]

That's going to be worse than that clusterfuck of a fuckery of that Idaho caucus.

All the more reason to go to a vote by mail system.
I've got to see who I talk to about that here in Tejas.

I agree with the vote by mail system IF, for primaries...it is a ranked voting setup, because we're seeing issues where a lot of candidates have dropped out AFTER people mailed in their ballots. If ranked voting was available then their next favorite candidate may still be in the race, instead of the vote not really counting.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It only means that every scope of human action (engineering, accounting, law) has its own logic and sense. There is no such thing as a sense that is common to all of them.

There must exists a ‘common’ sense, no? :p

Anyway, I don’t know who’s right or wrong in Ohio, that fiasco was probably worse than Aussie GP. I’m sure I would’ve felt much differently if during the middle of general election, trump called an emergency to close all polling places and just ask all the red states electors to give him the electoral votes.

To me, if something is lawful but fail to make common sense, then we ought to change that something. Either thru legal means or start a revolution. Just because it’s legal, doesn’t necessary mean it makes sense.

[FaultyMario]

If it were up to me. I'd be considering moving the presidential election to mail-in ballot.

The American postal system is much more robust and more difficult to tamper with than any electronic measures that could be designed, tested and run before November (see Iowa fuckery for refrerence).

[neanderthal]

I agree with the vote by mail system IF, for primaries...it is a ranked voting setup, because we're seeing issues where a lot of candidates have dropped out AFTER people mailed in their ballots. If ranked voting was available then their next favorite candidate may still be in the race, instead of the vote not really counting.

Can't like this quote enough.

[neanderthal]

Cross post from pandemic thread.

So, can someone explain to me why we have to have 3 months expenses in savings as an emergency fund, but businesses close for a few days and they need a bailout? Looking at airlines, casinos, etc

[neanderthal]

If it were up to me. I'd be considering moving the presidential election to mail-in ballot.

The American postal system is much more robust and more difficult to tamper with than any electronic measures that could be designed, tested and run before November (see Iowa fuckery for refrerence).

That, AND a national day of elections.

[FaultyMario]

So, can someone explain to me why we have to have 3 months expenses in savings as an emergency fund, but businesses close for a few days and they need a bailout? Looking at airlines, casinos, etc

Because donors. AKA conflict of interests.

[Crazed_Insanity]

At least according to Andrew Yang, most average americans cannot even afford $500 of unexpected emergency expenses. For sure most americans don't even have 1 month in savings in their bank account, let alone 3 months.

Companies and people with credit could at least continue to charge to their credits for a while..., but the average paycheck to paycheck americans will be screwed.

But guess what? Bailing out corporations 1st will have bipartisan support of both republican and democratic establishment. Poor americans shall be sacrificed again I'm sure. Rich companies are simply too precious to fail. Poor people can easily be allow to fail. Who need them anyways...

Makes me wonder what companies like Apple, Google, Amazon with plenty of cash laying around are thinking about... Will they continue to sit on their cash or perhaps help accelerate vaccine research or what?

Of all those rich people, I only see Bill Gates devoting his wealth on vaccine research.

Elon Musk is just too focused on his EVs and Rockets at the moment...

[MR2 Fan]

Elon Musk is just too focused on his EVs and Rockets at the moment...

Actually he did suggest something on twitter:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1239650597906898947

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, Elon Musk is probably the poorest of them billionaires... his wealth is all paper... as his companies are not really making much profit. If shit really hits the fan, survival of his companies may be in doubt.

I'm mainly talking about those folks who are actually sitting on loads of cash and not really doing anything about it...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow, Trump surprised me! He’s opened to send cash directly to Americans!

Andrew Yang is going to end up endorsing him now?!?!?

[MR2 Fan]

When you're at the end of your rope and the stock market drops every time you've opened your mouth so far....I guess he finally met his match.

And honestly, do these people think we're just going to hoard the money and not spend it?? Are they that tone deaf about what regular working people do?

[Rikadyn]

Are they that tone deaf about what regular working people do?

Yes.

[MR2 Fan]

Yes.

rhetorical :p

[neanderthal]

https://twitter.com/charles_gaba/status/1239992140870160384?s=19

[neanderthal]

https://t.co/Gvr3guZ2e8?amp=1

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow, sanders has 20+% in Florida! I thought he might not even get more than 15% according to some polls... so maybe the momentum is shifting a little bit?

In all honesty, I don’t think most voters care about the primary anymore...

[IMOA]

Cross post from pandemic thread.

So, can someone explain to me why we have to have 3 months expenses in savings as an emergency fund, but businesses close for a few days and they need a bailout? Looking at airlines, casinos, etc

You don't have to have three months of savings, its just good practice. Business's should be resilient as well but being resilient also costs jobs so you don't want them to be too conservative. And ultimately, while the culture war fanatics may get all excited about that rich capitalist losing their business as scoring one for the team, for every business that goes under its a lot of jobs that get lost.

But ultimately, the stimulus we see will be targeted at businesses which are dis proportionally impacted as well as individuals. You love to build up these false dichotomies and see things in a very binary way and shout at how everyone else is wrong, maybe try to be a bit more willing to look at all points of view and not turn everything into a battle. There's lots of middle ground to go round.

[Yw-slayer]

I agree with Greg that:

1. 3 months of savings is generally good practice for everyone;

2. stimuli targeting major businesses would have a disproportionate (in a good way) effect as many employ hundreds or thousands of individuals and create other jobs in the industry (personally casinos I have less sympathy for, but at the same time they are not generally going away and they do employ a lot of people and create a lot of jobs around and in relation to them); and

3. there is a fair amount of middle-ground to go around.

Depending on the region/economy in question, there can be something to be said for handing out subsidies, but it's no use doing so if there are few places you can spend the money.

[neanderthal]

You don't have to have three months of savings, its just good practice. Business's should be resilient as well but being resilient also costs jobs so you don't want them to be too conservative. And ultimately, while the culture war fanatics may get all excited about that rich capitalist losing their business as scoring one for the team, for every business that goes under its a lot of jobs that get lost.

But ultimately, the stimulus we see will be targeted at businesses which are dis proportionally impacted as well as individuals. You love to build up these false dichotomies and see things in a very binary way and shout at how everyone else is wrong, maybe try to be a bit more willing to look at all points of view and not turn everything into a battle. There's lots of middle ground to go round.

I love to go binary when things are binary; like when the choice is between Trump and Hillary Clinton. That's NOT a difficult decision, based on facts. If people want to base their decision making on Faux News, that's another story.

Anyway, I agree that it's good practise to have 3- 6 months expenses in case of emergency. I think it's prudent for businesses to do the same. It ALWAYS perplexes me when I see people, for example, rushing to buy an expensive 3/4 ton or above truck, at the end of the year, when they don't need it, because it will be a tax write off. That doesn't make sense to my simple mind; if I don't "need" to spend the money I try not to. I don't go spending money just to reduce my taxes.

But, then again, I have a completely different view point on taxes than a lot of people (tax the fuck out of everything! Including Mitt Romney's dancing horses!) I have no problem with taxes and a lot of people do. I come from a place where tax monies get squandered by those in power and the gap between the rich and poor is very stark. Whereas, here even if the taxes are being squandered, we still have public parks, and libraries and roads, and infrastructure, and commons, and so on. But, that's another sidebar.


The last time businesses were handed a check, through Trumps disastrous tax cuts in 2018(?) most of them spent that money on stock buy backs or executive pay/ bonuses. I searched high and low to see if any of that tax cut went to the workers. Outside of Costco, I really couldn't find any businesses that said "lets give our employees a raise."

Caveat. Amazon and WalMart did give their employees a raise somewhere about that time, although I think it had a lot more to do with the negative press they were getting from the "Fight for $15" campaign than the tax cut. It might have been that tax cut. I doubt it. It might have been the negative publicity. It might have been both. I, myself, think it was more the negative publicity than anything else. I don't think they raised the wages to $15 an hour though.

I really hope that if there is any relief for these companies that there are strings attached; make it a loan like the car companies had to agree to in 2009. With interest.

It's crazy that it is taking a pandemic to underline just how shitty our society is to the poor, and working poor, and those at the very bottom strata of the economic ladder. Not just in terms of actual compensation, but in terms of healthcare, childcare, education, etc. And NOW, in the middle of this disaster of a epidermic is when society is pretending/ starting to give a shit.

I really hope it galvanises people to take a much closer look at their politicians they keep voting into power, and how much they (the politicians) aren't doing their jobs. It's mostly the Republicans, but that is a whole 'nother sidebar.

[neanderthal]

I agree with Greg that:

1. 3 months of savings is generally good practice for everyone;

2. stimuli targeting major businesses would have a disproportionate (in a good way) effect as many employ hundreds or thousands of individuals and create other jobs in the industry (personally casinos I have less sympathy for, but at the same time they are not generally going away and they do employ a lot of people and create a lot of jobs around and in relation to them); and

3. there is a fair amount of middle-ground to go around.

Depending on the region/economy in question, there can be something to be said for handing out subsidies, but it's no use doing so if there are few places you can spend the money.

That last sentence, it took a minute to sink in. Then it hit me in the gut.

[Yw-slayer]

Yeah man. So for example, it's been mentioned that our USD1,200ish subsidy will most likely be handed out in September. That's more than 4 months away. How useful will those be if people are out of jobs by then and businesses have closed down?

[drew]

It will be in September because it's closer to the election. Everything this administration does is politically driven to keep him there another term.

That said, he had a chance at a legitimate "win", had he jumped all over this shit when it started weeks ago, rather than downplay everything, blame the Democrats (it was a hoax you know), then acknowledge it IS a problem, but it's Obama's fault we don't have the tests available....

He could have done something genuinely good, and I would have applauded him for that, but instead, he's the piece of self-serving shit he's always been.

The three month thing is nice in theory, but when you have reports that the vast majority of Americans can't even cover a $400 emergency expense and/or live week to week on pay, 3 months only applies to a very few.

[Rikadyn]

https://i.imgur.com/CG4hkYo_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&fidelity=high

[Yw-slayer]

It will be in September because it's closer to the election. Everything this administration does is politically driven to keep him there another term.

When I mentioned the "September date" I am referring to the HK Govt's cash handout. I don't know what you guys are going to do over there. It's possible that your govt will hand out the money far sooner!

[FaultyMario]

3511

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.mediaite.com/news/asian-american-journalist-says-trump-white-house-official-called-coronavirus-kung-flu-to-her-face/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Wasn't sure which thread to put it in, but it might as well go here.

[neanderthal]

https://www.mediaite.com/news/asian-american-journalist-says-trump-white-house-official-called-coronavirus-kung-flu-to-her-face/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Wasn't sure which thread to put it in, but it might as well go here.

Yeah, he fucking did.

Somebody smarter than me, on Twitter, suggested that if that's how it's going to be addressed then it should also be fine to say "another white mass shooter."

[neanderthal]

Bernie lost wholesale, again, yesterday. His path to the nomination is nigh on impossible now.

But did he drop out? No; grifters got to grift ...

And while he's complaining (through his surrogates) about the Democrats continuing to hold primaries during this episode of COVID 19 (nevermind that it's states, not political parties, that determine when elections are held) he's continually over looking the fact that IT'S HIS PRESENCE IN THE RACE that makes the elections necessary. He could drop out right now and nobody would have to potentially expose themselves to the virus while casting a vote.

But grifters got to grift. It's not about the public or the greater good. It's about him.


If it wasn't he'd have done far more than name post offices

[drew]

When I mentioned the "September date" I am referring to the HK Govt's cash handout. I don't know what you guys are going to do over there. It's possible that your govt will hand out the money far sooner!

Ah, well, excuse my knee-jerk reaction. But I'm sure it still applies.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, President Trump is a known asshole, so I prefer the COVFEFE-19 virus.

However, do people around the world know who is President Xi? He is so awesome that he saved the world? Without his brave actions, we'd all be zombies by now? If Trump does somehow become a dictator by declaring emergency actions, we also have China to thank for that.

In all honesty, China really doesn't have to be so sensitive about having a virus named after itself. Yeah, maybe it's not China's fault and it's now too politically incorrect to name a virus after Wuhan, but in all seriousness, there were lots of virus/diseases name after locations or nations. See 12 in the following link:
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/30440/12-diseases-and-lucky-places-they%E2%80%99re-named

[Crazed_Insanity]

Bernie lost wholesale, again, yesterday. His path to the nomination is nigh on impossible now.

But did he drop out? No; grifters got to grift ...

And while he's complaining (through his surrogates) about the Democrats continuing to hold primaries during this episode of COVID 19 (nevermind that it's states, not political parties, that determine when elections are held) he's continually over looking the fact that IT'S HIS PRESENCE IN THE RACE that makes the elections necessary. He could drop out right now and nobody would have to potentially expose themselves to the virus while casting a vote.

But grifters got to grift. It's not about the public or the greater good. It's about him.


If it wasn't he'd have done far more than name post offices

This primary election isn't all about Bernie... there are other seats to fill too you know?

Of course in this case, I have to agree with you... if this outbreak didn't intimidate the older voters to avoid the polls, I don't know how else could he win the WH at this point.

[Yw-slayer]

Ah, well, excuse my knee-jerk reaction. But I'm sure it still applies.

No worries man, if I had been talking about a US handout then your scenario isn't improbable!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Chinese government can build hospitals in 10 days, but would take months to send in cash to help people in need? This aid could also possibly sooth the complaining protesters too... wonder what the chinese govt is thinking. I seriously don't get it.

Actually I do, they don't really care about its own citizens well being. Hospitals were there to control the disease. Aiding the Italians is more important than aiding its own citizens at this point. Who cares about PR if you can control flow of info within your country? Doing good PR outside is more worthwhile.

[Tom Servo]

Even this morning, on Fresno's KMJ radio...


The media is absolutely responsible for this..90% of them are working for the Democrats, working for the left..They’re doing dangerous things in this country by whipping everyone up in this panic. There’s no reason to be in this panic.

[Yw-slayer]

Lol. People like that will get what's coming to them, especially if they really go before their maker as they claim they will and believe in.

[Tom Servo]

On the positive side, last I heard we had fewer new cases today than we did yesterday in LA county. I know one day is not a trend, and everything is subject to the number of tests, but it's the first day in a while without an exponential increase about three days after mostly locking down the city, which from what I gather is the earliest symptoms start showing up.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I was comparing trend lines, I think nationally, we’re trending like Italy, maybe a bit worse, but CA seems to have slowed or stabilized the growth of confirmed cases. Need to monitor few more days to be sure if that’s really the trend or maybe we’re under testing still...

Anyway, at least Trump has stopped downplaying this..., it’ll take his supporters some time to catch up. This is unlike climate change. You won’t be able to deny this for very long. Sooner or later, COVFEFE-19 will crush all political boundaries and bring us together!

Well, except for US China relations... apparently things will continue to deteriorate like Billi and YW. Bickering about whether if it’s a chinese virus or American virus.... China has pretty much kicked out all US journalists in their country. Maybe they will start kicking out ambassadors soon...

Well, on brighter note, at least the other China, Taiwan, is having improved relationship with US. Taiwan has also committed to donate 100k masks/week to the US.

[Tom Servo]

The initial Chinese response and the initial American response both exacerbated the situation. At this point it's a worldwide virus, and we have a name for it. It's insanity to call it a "chinese virus".

EDIT: I take that back. Trump and others used the technical name for a while, either Coronavirus, COVID-19, or SARS-CoV-2. They just recently started with "Chinese Virus", "Wuhan Virus", and "Kung-Fluey". This coming from a President who has repeatedly explicitly tried to deflect blame for his response. It's straight up racism, trying to blame "others" for his screwup. That does not mean that the Chinese didn't also screw up, but his calling it the "Chinese Virus" is him purposely trying to displace blame around his own lack of response via racism.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No disagreement from me there... both sides have a lot of blame to deflect..., but hopefully things won’t deteriorate too badly cause that can’t end up well for chinese Americans...

[Rikadyn]

Not like the US has a history of putting ethnic minorities into prison camps or anything...

[Yw-slayer]

Not like the US has a history of putting ethnic minorities into prison camps or anything...

lol

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, particularly if trump the dictator wanna be is in charge...

[FaultyMario]

https://www.propublica.org/article/senator-dumped-up-to-1-6-million-of-stock-after-reassuring-public-about-coronavirus-preparedness

[Crazed_Insanity]

It's mind boggling these politicians don't have to sign any conflict of interests forms... or not get in trouble with the law by insider's trading?

We go thru annual mandatory training for these things... including safety, ethics training... company wide!

However, they really should just make it mandatory for senior management or these top level politicians and let them know the penalties may be jail time if they break the laws!

Anyway, top politicians really should not be owning stocks or have real estate properties all over the world. If these investments are just too important to give up, then they need to stay away from public office. Trump can be allowed to be president was really amazing to me. Senator Burr is probably just a tiny toad in the swamp compared to Trump.

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/m10767fc2nn41.jpg

[neanderthal]

Mark Cuban has come up with a fantastic regulation for these bailouts these companies are asking for.

Essentially, he's stating that any company that takes government money and does any stock options for its executives/ board whoever MUST make those same options available to EVERY employee of that company.

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/jhbkgrjajrn41.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.propublica.org/article/senator-dumped-up-to-1-6-million-of-stock-after-reassuring-public-about-coronavirus-preparedness

Tucker and AOC on the same page of wanting Burr to resign! Wow. This virus is really blurring the political divide!
http://www.newshounds.us/tucker_carlson_burr_should_explain_or_resign_be_pr osecuted_over_coronavirus_stock_sales_031920

Supposedly Tucker was also the guy who shook Trump to his senses in mar a lago regarding the virus...

Never thought the day would come for me to develop some respect for Tucker...

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/h4z9zvly1un41.jpg

[dodint]

Hmmm.

You would think the complete lack of demand would have something to do with it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Remember how Trump would always praise and brag about some new guy on the job as the best ever... and then after a while would fire a guy as the worst ever... I guess that is just his signature trait.

Dual personalities of Donald Trump. Just glad he finally saw the virus.
3513

Also if stock market is any indication, Trump's days are numbered?
3514

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sen-kelly-loeffler-dumped-millions-in-stock-after-coronavirus-briefing

Another republican senator caught dumping stock before the virus crisis...

Hope they do resign or the senate itself could just fire them... and hopefully dems seize the opportunity.

[JoshInKC]

Hmmm.

You would think the complete lack of demand would have something to do with it.

Yeah, there's definitely a complete lack of demand. Certainly no shortages that I'm aware of.
:rolleyes:

[dodint]

Josh, you seem to be confusing the demand for shit paper and eggs for the basis of the tweet, shareholder equity in the stock market.

The lack of demand is artificial.

Delta stock is tanking because we're externally barred from flying. Same for gas prices, shelter in place is dropping that fairly quick.

The tweet asserts shareholder equity is tied to a shortage in...labor. Is that what we have, a labor shortage? Doesn't seem like it. Seems like the stock market is suffering because of the governmental mandates prohibiting all but essential life sustaining services, suppressing demand.

It's a dumb tweet. There are moral and philosophical gains for socialists in this crisis (UBI, M4A, etc.) but that tweet is just failed dorm room philosophy.

[Yw-slayer]

Fuel prices should also be lower due to the oil price war.

[Crazed_Insanity]

For fucks sake, why are you guys even arguing whether if it’s demand or supply(labor)?

It’s fucking both okay? End of debate.

Markets tanked because both demand and supply is fucked. Laborers alone won’t cause market to rise.

[FaultyMario]

Is that what we have, a labor shortage? Doesn't seem like it.

Do remember, though, that workers offer their labor and it is firms that buy it. So we don't have a shortage of labor but rather demand was artificially limited.

What is also true, is that some forms of capital are linked to future consumption in ways that are frankly irresponsible. The pandemic has mostly caused bottlenecks in the middle of supply chains, that in turn causes drops in productivity and lessens the transfers of wages to families, which in turn affects consumption. The market is responding to three events: the fall in income for families, the artificial limits on the demand of labor and the loss of consumer confidence. Those three factors are then compounded by the financial instruments that buoy on them.

[JoshInKC]

Josh, you seem to be confusing the demand for shit paper and eggs for the basis of the tweet, shareholder equity in the stock market.

The lack of demand is artificial.

Delta stock is tanking because we're externally barred from flying. Same for gas prices, shelter in place is dropping that fairly quick.

The tweet asserts shareholder equity is tied to a shortage in...labor. Is that what we have, a labor shortage? Doesn't seem like it. Seems like the stock market is suffering because of the governmental mandates prohibiting all but essential life sustaining services, suppressing demand.

It's a dumb tweet. There are moral and philosophical gains for socialists in this crisis (UBI, M4A, etc.) but that tweet is just failed dorm room philosophy.

Sorry about that, I was being kind of needlessly shitty and sarcastic (it's been a long-ass day).

However, everything Mario said applies.

[dodint]

No offense taken, I was being snarky as well.

Mario is absolutely on it, and it supports the core point of my problem with the tweet. The issues faced are multifaceted. The tweet being smarmy about labor is silly.

If I were a socialist and wanted to push my agenda I would be saying how great this forthcoming UBI is, or how swell it would be if all medical costs were taxpayer funded, not just the COVID-19 testing. Not that I expect that the other side would care.

It can go too far. If someone wants to explain what excusing $10,000 of student debt will do for us have a crack at it. Or from the other side, elimination of the payroll tax. Yeesh.

[dodint]

On the labor point specifically I do have a question. If the labor is part of a bargained for exchange and is appropriately compensated for it is as much of a liability as it is a resource. Other than moral considerations of the human element why should it be singled it for special status in production?

[FaultyMario]

I don't quite understand the first part of the question, but I can say that our modern system is geared towards favoring the producer, inasmuch that it helps producers substitute of the means of production so that it minimizes costs.

For example, that White House official who always wants to bomb Iran (I forget his name, I swear) just called migrant farm workers the bloodline of our economy... because ever since the late eighties, when farmwork became too unappealing to the domestic labor market, institutional arrangements have favored the import of labor, documented or otherwise.

[MR2 Fan]

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/an5o1VB_460swp.webp

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/9far7gdnt0o41.png

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/an5o1VB_460swp.webp

I can never see your images for some reason. On my work laptop, I assumed my employer block certain things but even on my phone, I can’t seem to see it.

[neanderthal]

So senators selling stocks after being briefed. Then telling us to our faces that everything is ok. For two months. :erm:

What a fucked up world we live in.

[MR2 Fan]

Biden is still missing....for several days....this isn't good for the Dems

[Crazed_Insanity]

What do you mean ‘still’ missing? I didn’t even know he’s missing.

If he is truly missing, I wonder how the DNC and majority of dem voters will broker the deal... who ever they nominate, surely it won’t be Sanders. It’s be better to nominate Trump than a socialist! America has spoken.

I think in 2016, there was simply more hatred for Hillary rather than real love for sanders progressivism... at least that’s my take away based on this year’s primaries. America is just not ready yet.

[Yw-slayer]

Maybe he took a few days off to look for some of that sumptuous skull-filling to snack on!

[Tom Servo]

Wasn't sure which thread to post this in until I saw a good tweet about it. Rand Paul has tested positive (though asymptomatic). He's been at lunches and in meetings with other senators and at the senate gym and pool (they have a pool?!?) as late as this morning.

The tweet said something along the lines of "Rand Paul voting against coronavirus relief and then giving a bunch of people the coronavirus is about as Rand Paul as you can get."

[Crazed_Insanity]

They should just shut the government down. It’s nonessential anyways. We can probably do better without them...

Anyway, considering average age of congressmen, we can probably expect similar mortality rate as Italy?

Seriously, I don’t understand why the president needs to brief us everyday? Why can’t they just appoint some apolitical expert in charge?

I think it’s only a matter of time our entire govt officials will end up infected.

[Yw-slayer]

It's the Senate. Why wouldn't they have a pool? Haven't you learnt anything from Asterix and Obelix? :x

[FaultyMario]

I thought Rand Paul had the Chinese virus, who should I believe?

[Yw-slayer]

The President and Secretary of State of the United States would NEVER lie to you, personally, Faulty.

[neanderthal]

Cross post from pandemic thread.
---
"Tonight we saw the entire Senate Democratic caucus come together to block the GOPs corporate slush fund.
Except for one member- Bernie Sanders. He didn't show up to vote." From a tweet @TheStagmania

Source (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/22/coronavirus-stimulus-congress-141360)

What was he doing? Live streaming his townhall for his virtual campaign. A campaign which now has an almost improbable path forward.

"He loves to grandstand but he never shows up to do the actual work. Had it with this dude."

------------

But he didn't vote with the republicans, in this crisis I understand why he would stay home. Why are you always on Bernie?

Um, A it's his job. Hes a Senator. And B, he's made his career ... "championing the people" and fighting the prioritisation of corporate interests over people. This is one fight HE HAD TO be in. He chose to stay out.

A final bern from one of the respondents in the tweet; Bernie is like his followers, never shows up for the crucial vote.

[neanderthal]

It's the Senate. Why wouldn't they have a pool? Haven't you learnt anything from Asterix and Obelix? :x

:up: for Asterix and Obelix reference.

My favorite comic series closely followed by Tintin

[Crazed_Insanity]

Cross post from pandemic thread.
---
"Tonight we saw the entire Senate Democratic caucus come together to block the GOPs corporate slush fund.
Except for one member- Bernie Sanders. He didn't show up to vote." From a tweet @TheStagmania

Source (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/22/coronavirus-stimulus-congress-141360)

What was he doing? Live streaming his townhall for his virtual campaign. A campaign which now has an almost improbable path forward.

"He loves to grandstand but he never shows up to do the actual work. Had it with this dude."

------------

But he didn't vote with the republicans, in this crisis I understand why he would stay home. Why are you always on Bernie?

Um, A it's his job. Hes a Senator. And B, he's made his career ... "championing the people" and fighting the prioritisation of corporate interests over people. This is one fight HE HAD TO be in. He chose to stay out.

A final bern from one of the respondents in the tweet; Bernie is like his followers, never shows up for the crucial vote.

Crucial?

How so?

Just like Billi’s vote back in 2016. It don’t matter how he voted, outcome ain’t gonna change man!

I am kinda disappointed to see them still politicizing in times like this...

Dems are at a disadvantage though..., they’re making it look like trump and senate majority want to give people the money, but the dems are obstructing...

This is not really a fight worth fighting for IMHO...

[neanderthal]

Crucial?

How so?

Just like Billi’s vote back in 2016. It don’t matter how he voted, outcome ain’t gonna change man!

I am kinda disappointed to see them still politicizing in times like this...

Dems are at a disadvantage though..., they’re making it look like trump and senate majority want to give people the money, but the dems are obstructing...

This is not really a fight worth fighting for IMHO...

There you go, again, reframing the issue to attack the Democrats.

You could have said "the Republicans are making it look like they want to give the people the money but the Democrats know it's a bad deal for the people and more of a corporate handout, and they're rightfully opposing this bill as it stands " but, like Bernie, you've sided with the Republicans by staying aside on this.


And in the last sentence in your post, you're telling us the Dems should just cave and let the Republican bill pass as it stands. Which anathema to what you purport to stand for: you spent the last five years attacking Democrats as corporate lackeys.

Here is exactly where you and Bernie should have been in the frontline: drawing a line in the sand, saying "no, this corporate bailout is bull shit" but you've decided to throw your hands up and say "meh."


Your entire political history, and now five years of disowning the Democrats and being a revolutionary for the cause of the people, proved to a charade. Progressive my big fat staetopygic ass.

This is why I can't take any of your political ideology seriously.

[neanderthal]

A leopard can't change it's spots- African proverb

[Crazed_Insanity]

We disagree politically, even for things that we agree on, such as trump and republicans, you'd still think I love them. But that’s fine, you’re entitled to your opinion, but my opinion is that I think it’s bad timing for dems to pick a fight now. Dems have failed to stop a tax cut for the rich already. That was during good times! Now, it’s obvious that even corporations need bailout now... not sure if dems will score many victory points when markets continue to dive on Monday.

It’s obvious that the republicans are the true assholes, but somehow they almost always find ways to get their way and make the dems look like assholes. See impeachment.

[neanderthal]

We disagree politically, even for things that we agree on, such as trump and republicans, you'd still think I love them. But that’s fine, you’re entitled to your opinion, but my opinion is that I think it’s bad timing for dems to pick a fight now. Dems have failed to stop a tax cut for the rich already. That was during good times! Now, it’s obvious that even corporations need bailout now... not sure if dems will score many victory points when markets continue to dive on Monday.

It’s obvious that the republicans are the true assholes, but somehow they almost always find ways to get their way and make the dems look like assholes. See impeachment.

There you go again being true to form; Democrats can do no right. You "think it's a bad time for Dems to pick a fight now" when the Republicans are about to give a(nother) giant corporate handout. So you prefer they just roll over, so that when this ... bailout (I guess) happens, you can go back to attacking them and saying nothing about the Republicans. This, mind you, at a time when the citizens and people are most imperiled by not only this scourge of a pandemic (excarcebated by Republican inaction, mind you!) but by the collapsing of the economy (via the stock market.) Now is when you choose to :sad banana


NOW is the actual time to put your morals on the table go all in. You say you fight for "the revolution" against the corporates and their crons? OK, show us.


Instead here you are flapping your lips about Democrats failing to stop a tax cut for the rich. Um, ... I don't know if you know this but the Republicans had vote passing majorities in both the Senate and Congress, plus their orange minion in the White House, but lets not facts get in the way.


3516

[neanderthal]

You're the boy who cried wolf, except, now that there's an actual wolf and you are being silent.

It's fucking nuts not suprising that you don't get the intersection between this virus, the economy, and the working class you claim to advocate for.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Facts are on the dems’ side, but somehow they rarely get their way and end up looking bad too. You’ve already given them the tax cut for the rich, what’d would be the big deal for giving them a bailout?

Anyway, dems need a better strategy or leadership or something that’s all I’m saying. They criticize sanders couldn’t get things done, but they really need to install more mirrors, don’t you think?

Seriously. I want to see them get things done.

[neanderthal]

Facts are on the dems’ side, but somehow they rarely get their way and end up looking bad too. You’ve already given them the tax cut for the rich, what’d would be the big deal for giving them a bailout?

Anyway, dems need a better strategy or leadership or something that’s all I’m saying. They criticize sanders couldn’t get things done, but they really need to install more mirrors, don’t you think?

Seriously. I want to see them get things done.



:lol: That tax cut was passed by a Republican White House, republican senate and republican congress.

I've figured you out; you're a republican claiming to be a progressive. It explains everything!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Republican congress?

Where are all the democrats, live streaming in Vermont?

We still have trump and the same congress don’t we? What changed? Just Billi changed from progressive to republican?

Dems are all of sudden more powerful in congress thanks to Biden’s surge? ;)

[neanderthal]

Republican congress?

Where are all the democrats, live streaming in Vermont?

We still have trump and the same congress don’t we? What changed? Just Billi changed from progressive to republican?

Dems are all of sudden more powerful in congress thanks to Biden’s surge? ;)

What changed?

It's 20fucken20. Google "2018 mid term elections."

oh, wait, :sadbanana: you don't know how to google.

Try a calendar then.

[neanderthal]

Imagine thinking talking smack about Democrats right now was a major priority for someone with "progressive" values

[Crazed_Insanity]

Okay okay, my bad, I totally forgot that we used to have Paul Ryan in the house and Trump taxcut was back then... What a forgettable guy...

Anyway, point wasn't to talk smack about the dems, but Federal govt are like bunch of ER doctors now. I don't think they have the luxury to debate about which procedure to perform all the while the critically injured patient is dying...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Very interesting. Senate gridlocked again and dow only dropped 3%. I guess the markets didn't really care what they were trying to do... or perhaps we're already near the bottom?

[Yw-slayer]

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/23/opinions/coronavirus-restaurant-industry-food-security-samuelsson/index.html

Just going to leave this here. TLDR version: Govt needs to figure out how to help people in an industry (catering) which is going to see tons of businesses, and hence jobs, disappear.

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/9ex2ijsm2ko41.jpg

[The359]

Ever the egotist, we just received pallets of a quarter million post cards at my facility for distribution to every house in the area, from The White House/CDC. But the cards don't say CDC, they don't say White House, they don't say America. They say "President Trump's Coronavirus Guidelines". Because he just had to put his name on it as if they were his idea.

[Yw-slayer]

Did ha manage to colour within the lines? Or does he need a bit more training so that he can hold his crayons properly?

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://i.redd.it/9ex2ijsm2ko41.jpg

I think this is gonna be the main difference between red and blue states..., but I also think he misjudged boomers! ;)

Maybe they’ll sacrifice themselves for their grandchildren? Who cares about the economy? Well, if their retirements are tied to the economy maybe they would care... but again, if they might be dead, why would they care about their retirement funds? :p

[FaultyMario]

Stay safe, Matt.

[Freude am Fahren]

Interesting, since he turns 70 in a couple weeks.

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/27l67fi1cmo41.png

[Crazed_Insanity]

I have to say this is really like picking between a rock and a hard place.

What'd be a good way to compute how many will starve to death after a prolong shutdown compared to how many would die of COVID19? It's like a lose lose situation.

US government has the luxury of printing money to keep things going, but not sure if every nation could do that.

Will the billionaires come to their senses that now is not the time to hoard their wealth and resources in some offshore tax sheltered account.

[neanderthal]

So, we're in this boat, all together, and it's in the middle of the sea and it's taking in water because certain elements in the boat (the Republicans) are basically scuppering the boat, taking off bits of wood and metal that might have value and keeping it for themselves. All while the Democrats are trying to row to a nearby island that looks to have all the elements necessary to live: water, fuel, food, shelter, etc.

Meanwhile a third group, (billi and his fellow "progressives") is busy chastising the Democrats because they aren't rowing in perfect unison (who knew they did sculls in college?) and trying to redirect the path of the boat to a bigger island they claim will be better, but isn't anywhere in sight. They're not rowing by the way.

And they don't know where this bigger land mass is.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Nice analogy. Keep rowing. Don't stop please! Thanks man! You da man! And Biden too! :)

[neanderthal]

I'm hesitant to see what's in this $2 trillion package. Undoubtedly, if the Republicans have shafted the little man, billi will blame ... the Democrats.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm just glad that they stop fighting and came up with a rescue package for now.

As for later on, I'm sure I'll be able to find ways to criticize the 'establishment'. However, by 'establishment', I meant those super rich folks who have purchased both republican and dem politicians. Not the typical black voters of America. :p

[Jason]

Christ, you two are way too focused on each other.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes.

[neanderthal]

Very apt.
https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/1242908272375537665?s=19

[neanderthal]

I wonder where the "amendment king" was as they were hammering out this bill.

I see Berner's claiming he's the one who got the poor and middle class compensated in that bill, but they don't seem to realise that was always in the Congress' bill, which Uncle Grandpa had nothing to do with.

Oh, wait, he was doing a fireside chat.

[neanderthal]

This ad by the Biden campaign is pure fire.
https://twitter.com/chrislongview/status/1242969490721210368?s=19

[Jason]

The fact that it passed in such resounding numbers gives me a little faith in the bill. Hopefully it does the job in keeping every day Americans afloat while everything is shut down. I don't care if it's expanded unemployment, or stimulus checks, as long as people can feed and house themselves while out of work during this period.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Impressive bipartisanship! :up: Wonder if that's a senate record?

No senator voted no. Not even Sanders! The 4 who didn't vote only because they were quarantined...

So it should go thru the House quickly.

[neanderthal]

The fact that it passed in such resounding numbers gives me a little faith in the bill. Hopefully it does the job in keeping every day Americans afloat while everything is shut down. I don't care if it's expanded unemployment, or stimulus checks, as long as people can feed and house themselves while out of work during this period.

It needed to be more than 1 single payment though. What's that gonna do for the average family; pay mortgage for a month? How about next month? The car note? Etc.

I'm glad the unemployment insurance payment went up by $600 a week (month?) though.

[drew]

THen you have dickbags like Graham, protesting because some people would make more than when they were actually working.

IT'S A (ridiculous) ONE TIME PAYMENT.

Fuck off.

[dodint]

THen you have dickbags like Graham, protesting because some people would make more than when they were actually working.

IT'S A (ridiculous) ONE TIME PAYMENT.

Fuck off.

The opposition was to the additional $600/wk unemployment insurance. They wanted the $600 capped at whatever the individual was making before the layoff. If the unemployment was higher than employment wages it would trigger unnecessary layoffs across all sectors and make the economy harder to jump start later.

It's objectively fair that you are compensated at the rate of which you earned. The legislative intent for that portion of the bill was to "ensure that laid-off workers, on average, will receive their full pay for four months."

They're shitheels, but they were acting fairly in this instance.

Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/handful-gop-senators-threaten-delay-senate-coronavirus-bill-over-drafting-n1168766

[Jason]

It needed to be more than 1 single payment though. What's that gonna do for the average family; pay mortgage for a month? How about next month? The car note? Etc.

I'm glad the unemployment insurance payment went up by $600 a week (month?) though.

That’s where enhanced unemployment comes in. I think the idea is this $1200 check keeps people afloat while they wait in line to get approved for unemployment. And unemployment is $600 extra per week for the next 4 months, I believe.

Also of note, if you’re a gig worker, part time worker, etc, you now qualify for unemployment.

[neanderthal]

THen you have dickbags like Graham, protesting because some people would make more than when they were actually working.

IT'S A (ridiculous) ONE TIME PAYMENT.

Fuck off.

Republicans need to be routed in this next election cycle. I really hope they lose, and lose big especially in those states and counties where they have always had a stronghold.

[FaultyMario]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt5II7UIYCM

Skip to 10:30 if you hate Bernie. Because perhaps appeasement isn't the only way to "work across the aisle".

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I can't disagree with Bernie... I also understand republican's concerns of paying workers more money than their original wages...

Regardless of who's right or wrong, just glad this bill passed in the senate. Hope the house can act quickly too.

Once this bailout package is out of the way, the government really need to figure out a better strategy rather than just shutting down... and then try to get back to work...

Until we have a vaccines, we really need to enlist a small percentage of volunteers to work on essential jobs, particularly medical related stuffs. These groups of medical 'army' will be allowed to be 'naturally' infected and not be allowed to return home... some would get sick and need to be hospitalized, but hopefully the hospitals will be able to take care of them... and as this group gets better and naturally immuned, we can start enlisting next small group of volunteers and put them to work. Wonder if this slowly opening up strategy would work...

Current way of shutting things down and then force those in essential industries to work can't be sustainable in the long haul. Going back to 'normal' on Easter is also BS...

I sure don't want to just sit at home and wait to lose my job and then eventually starve to death. I'd rather fight this virus directly.

[Freude am Fahren]

That’s where enhanced unemployment comes in. I think the idea is this $1200 check keeps people afloat while they wait in line to get approved for unemployment. And unemployment is $600 extra per week for the next 4 months, I believe.

Also of note, if you’re a gig worker, part time worker, etc, you now qualify for unemployment.

But many people are making less because of cut hours and/or loss of commissions/incentives. I'm currently making about 50% of my normal pay. Yeah, it's great I have a job, and even at 50% I can get by, but at some point it's not sustainable.

I'm okay with a one-time payment, as long as they get together again next month and do it again if things haven't turned around yet.

Also, I would assume that if you haven't filed your taxes yet, they go based on 2018 numbers? Those that are in that $75k-$99k zone but made less in 2018 would be smart to wait if they haven't filed yet.

[21Kid]

Christ, you two are way too focused on each other.
Yeah, I had to ignore Mo too. :(

[Crazed_Insanity]

Kids really need to stay out of the political kitchen because it’s gonna get hot in here! ;)

[FaultyMario]

DOJ/DEA has charged the president of Venezuela with drug trafficking. This graph clearly shows how his government has flooded Guatemala with non-commercial maritime routes in the Pacific.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUC7Y5lXYAASY5w.jpg

Excuse me? Venezuela has not western seaboard? That's Colombia? The one that's been ruled by American allies for decades? You sure?

Yeah, Maduro: Bad Hombre.

[Jason]

But many people are making less because of cut hours and/or loss of commissions/incentives. I'm currently making about 50% of my normal pay. Yeah, it's great I have a job, and even at 50% I can get by, but at some point it's not sustainable.

I'm okay with a one-time payment, as long as they get together again next month and do it again if things haven't turned around yet.

Also, I would assume that if you haven't filed your taxes yet, they go based on 2018 numbers? Those that are in that $75k-$99k zone but made less in 2018 would be smart to wait if they haven't filed yet.

https://waysandmeans.house.gov/sites/democrats.waysandmeans.house.gov/files/documents/UC%20FAQ%20CARES%20Act.pdf

This has some answers.

“ Expansion of “Work Sharing” Programs to Provide Partial Benefits to Individuals with Reduced Hours.
The federal government would temporarily provide full funding for states with Short-Time Compensation or “work sharing” programs in law, in which employers voluntarily make an agreement with the state unemployment office to prevent layoffs by reducing employee hours, and workers with reduced hours are eligible for partial state UC benefits. States currently bear the full cost of these arrangements. States would receive $100 million for work sharing program promotion and enrollment of employers, and for implementation or improved administration. More information on “work sharing” programs can be found here.”

[Jason]

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/27/21195935/joe-biden-sexual-assault-allegation

Reade’s allegation is a little questionable, considering changing stories, and all the pro Russia stuff. But at the same time, all allegations should be taken seriously and investigated. Hopefully the Democratic Party, and Joe Biden do the right thing here.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What is the right thing to do?

How do you investigate a he said she said thing back in 1993?

Where was she when Sanders needed her the most to stop Biden's momentum after SC primary?

Biden for sure ain't my favorite, but enough of this kind of BS allegations already. MeToo movement started a while back, she had plenty to chances to voice her complaint. Her timing is extraordinarily bad.

I don't really want Sanders to lose, but I just can't believe Joe Biden literally grabbed her by the pussy as an isolated incident back in 1993. That kind of shit can't possibly happened just once as the man grows more powerful over the years.

Unless more women come forward, I just find this hard to believe.

[FaultyMario]

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/27/21195935/joe-biden-sexual-assault-allegation

Reade’s allegation is a little questionable, considering changing stories, and all the pro Russia stuff. But at the same time, all allegations should be taken seriously and investigated. Hopefully the Democratic Party, and Joe Biden do the right thing here.

I'm a bit conflicted, she doesn't totally sound like a trustworthy informant, but there's a sliver of truth in her narrative which I can totally relate to. In the interview with Katie Halper, Ms. Reade says that (then) Senator Biden used to go around the office making contact with staffers and touching them like they were furniture; that whole "you're here, but it's because you're of use to me that you're here" ambient is something I have first hand experience of, and I've always seen it around Men With Power. So there's that and also the way in which she tells how Biden put his finger in her vagina. Those two things, for me, are totally believable. The rest of her story, patchy as hell.

Here's Newsweek's take (https://www.newsweek.com/biden-campaign-team-denies-past-sexual-assault-allegation-former-senate-staffer-1494794).

[FaultyMario]

From The Guardian:

The missing six weeks: how Trump failed the biggest test of his life (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/28/trump-coronavirus-politics-us-health-disaster)



Within a week of its first confirmed case, South Korea’s disease control agency had summoned 20 private companies to the medical equivalent of a war-planning summit and told them to develop a test for the virus at lightning speed. A week after that, the first diagnostic test was approved and went into battle, identifying infected individuals who could then be quarantined to halt the advance of the disease.

Some 357,896 tests later, the country has more or less won the coronavirus war. On Friday only 91 new cases were reported in a country of more than 50 million.



Jeremy Konyndyk, who led the US government’s response to international disasters at USAid from 2013 to 2017, frames the past six weeks in strikingly similar terms. He told the Guardian: “We are witnessing in the United States one of the greatest failures of basic governance and basic leadership in modern times.”

In Konyndyk’s analysis, the White House had all the information it needed by the end of January to act decisively. Instead, Trump repeatedly played down the severity of the threat, blaming China for what he called the “Chinese virus” and insisting falsely that his partial travel bans on China and Europe were all it would take to contain the crisis.

[neanderthal]

From The Guardian:

The missing six weeks: how Trump failed the biggest test of his life (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/28/trump-coronavirus-politics-us-health-disaster)

But her emails ...

[MR2 Fan]

Of ALL of the thousands of completely TONE DEAF things things Trump has said...this might be the worst

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1244320570315018240


@realDonaldTrump

“President Trump is a ratings hit. Since reviving the daily White House briefing Mr. Trump and his coronavirus updates have attracted an average audience of 8.5 million on cable news, roughly the viewership of the season finale of ‘The Bachelor.’ Numbers are continuing to rise...

[FaultyMario]

Yes, Trump has strong support among his base voters, nothing is going to change that. Maybe make his base smaller, but not change how they feel about him. Not a sexual scandal, not a Russian racket, not a pandemic.

America has one large swath of independent voters, one smaller group of highly enthusiastic conservative voters and one much smaller group of lukewarm Democrat voters. You throw Biden in to the coliseum, and it's going to be a fucking massacre that's only going to energize the cult. Trump is going to rip him apart. "Lying, pro-billionaire, serial toucher?, pfft amateur, let me show you how it's done!".

How do you think the other two groups are going to respond to the conservative's renewed enthusiasm?

[MR2 Fan]

Many people aren't going to vote FOR Biden....MANY people are going to vote AGAINST Trump

[FaultyMario]

Not if they're not enthusiastic.

This study looked at the 1980 and 1988 presidential campaigns (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/George_Marcus/publication/253652130_Anxiety_Enthusiasm_and_the_Vote_The_Emot ional_Underpinnings_of_Learning_and_Involvement_Du ring_Presidential_Campaigns/links/0deec5224d070d856c000000/Anxiety-Enthusiasm-and-the-Vote-The-Emotional-Underpinnings-of-Learning-and-Involvement-During-Presidential-Campaigns.pdf), they found that "a threat" motivates a process of learning about the candidates and their policies, but that process is mediated by other factors, such as emotions and partisanship.



The duality of emotional response is made even clearer by turning our attention from political learning to political involvement, from citizens' acquiring new information to their engagement in the campaign. Our theory leads us to expect that for matters of already-learned behavior, for getting involved in an ongoing campaign, the key should lie in the positive-feedback mechanisms associated with enthusiasm rather than the attention-interrupt mechanisms of anxiety. Thus, the empirical pattern of the learning model in Table 5 should be reversed when we change our focus to the campaign involvement model. Our theory predicts that involvement, measured by a change in campaign interest,24 will vary as a function of changes in enthusiasm (while controlling for previous education, partisan intensity, and candidate knowledge). The expectation is confirmed. The empirical equations for the campaign involvement model are presented in Table 5. The key coefficients lie in Table 5, columns 3-4. During the spring primaries (January-June), the emotions are minimally -statistically insignificantly- associated with change in campaign involvement. If anything, partisanship is dominant. It is only during the fall campaign that candidate-induced emotional response spurs involvement. Crucially, the dominant factor becomes enthusiasm, not anxiety.

Do remember, though, that the intensity of party attachment seen in U.S. electoral politics is atypical of most democracies. Add to that, even when Trump is an inept manager, he is a master manipulator. You can see it right now with Dr. Faucci. He can turn those facepalm moments into agreeable gestures.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, the added chaos of this pandemic is going to make everything difficult to predict.

I for one never thought Biden could beat Sanders so badly earlier on...

So anything could happen.

Nevertheless, I still don’t believe in selling to the American people that we should vote for someone simply because we hate Trump. I hope Biden or whoever our eventual nominee will be able to step up on his own... and be able to attract voters because he is just plain better!

[FaultyMario]

Yes. That beats Trump.


That's also why Hillary wasn't going to beat him, her whole premise was that people should vote for her.

[SportWagon]

But the majority (a slim majority) did vote for Hillary.

[MR2 Fan]

yeah, 3 million people

[Jason]

FWIW, Trump’s approval rating has been improving since this pandemic started. It’s best we not count our chickens before they hatch.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?cid=rrpromo

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

[FaultyMario]

Nothing to see here.

[FaultyMario]

But the majority (a slim majority) did vote for Hillary.

Whilst that might be true, it also didn't beat Trump.

I'm pretty certain the parties' leadership really know how to play the game of indirect elections in the U.S., that's why you have these relatively long swings of control (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate#/media/File:Combined--Control_of_the_U.S._House_of_Representatives_-_Control_of_the_U.S._Senate.png)for the houses of Congress or why it has been said that the deck is stacked against Sanders, it clearly isn't designed against one person in particular (https://www.vox.com/2020/3/11/21174257/biden-sanders-delegate-count-primaries), but it surely favors the parties' elites.

[Tom Servo]

FWIW, Trump’s approval rating has been improving since this pandemic started. It’s best we not count our chickens before they hatch.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?cid=rrpromo

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

The whole thing has left me feeling like I'm in some upside down world where nothing makes sense and this just exacerbates that. What in the ever-loving fuck...will this change when the death rates start climbing? What will it take?

[FaultyMario]

Class solidarity, that's the only thing proven to break fascist* regimes.

[MR2 Fan]

Presidential approval ratings typically go up from a certain percentage of a population when a disaster hits...at least at the beginning, so I don't read too much into it.

[Tom Servo]

True, but Presidents typically do at least the bare minimum when disasters hit. We're in uncharted waters here.

[neanderthal]

True, but Presidents typically do at least the bare minimum when disasters hit. We're in uncharted waters here.

Four years of "fake news" territory.
There's a faction that'll only believe what Trump says, and another faction that wants to believe what Trump said, versus a faction that views anything that Trump says with a heavy dose of skepticism, and a last faction that straight disbelieves anything Trump says.

I'm firmly in the last group. I think many Democrats and some Independents are too. Magats are in that first group, some Republicans and some Independents are in the second.

This is Trump's hurricane Katrina, except he already fucked up response to hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico.

I blame the media for going along with his bullshit all this time.

[neanderthal]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/30/new-aoc-divides-the-left-150767

[Crazed_Insanity]

True, but Presidents typically do at least the bare minimum when disasters hit. We're in uncharted waters here.

Yeah, this is like 9-11 and financial crisis all happening at the same time. W got a bump on approval after 9-11, but probably took a hit for financial crisis.

So the stock market wipeout of the past 4 years will certainly be a hit on his chances come Nov... so just as how unpredictably stock markets can be in the near term, Trump's chances can be similarly unpredictable.

I do fear that if we all can feel safe enough to go out an vote on November, Trump will probably declare victory over this crisis again and possibly win.

If the mess we're in continues til then, then there will be no election... and hopefully Trump won't try anything funny such as making all the red states' electors give him the necessary electoral votes... or declear some kind of emergency to remain in power indefinitely. If he does that, I wonder if his supporters will really continue to enjoy surrender their freedoms to a dictator.... Will those patriots really embrace dictator Trump? Will they love Trump more than the constitution? I hope not...

Anyway, ideally, Pelosi or some other liberal congressperson will end up being the president if election's canceled.

I do hope the virus situation will be under control by then... don't want to see more chaos.

Biden, you really need to step up. American people seeing their stupid president everyday during this crisis will only help people forget about you.

It'd be really funny if Trump ended up with the legacy of giving basic healthcare for all Americans because of this pandemic... Planet earth also managed to reduced record number of carbon emissions on his watch.

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/smzj4e35ttp41.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

People must be very enthusiastic about Biden! He beat Bernie Sanders by landslides! How can they not be enthusiastic about him?

Anyway, these are extraordinary times..., maybe a 29point deficit can still beat Trump if the virus thing continued to be out of control...

[FaultyMario]

Dude, in the article I posted above one of the mediating factors was indeed partisanship. Biden is the party's candidate, some voters are so in-line with party norm that they would go out and put in a vote for him even if he were some absent-minded old guy with cognitive problems.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Enthusiasm is a bit different.

Take somebody like Neanderthal, he’d vote for both Obama and Biden, but he would be voting for Obama with more enthusiasm. Likewise he would be voting for Harris or Castro with more enthusiasm over Biden.

Ideally, we should have a candidate who’s not only electable, but also capable of stirring up voters’ enthusiasm.

Anyway, I do hope Biden can continue to surprise us like he did during the primaries. We need to have more landslide victories over trump...

[FaultyMario]

Ideally, we should have a candidate who’s not only electable, but also capable of stirring up voters’ enthusiasm.


Which is the whole Trump thing. People know who he is, he says things that stir people up (America great!, Furriners dirty!, Jobs!) and presents general ideas that sound good. Then his surrogates in the media make those ideas sound reasonable or even strategic, or they make him sound competent. It doesn't matter that the final policy implemented is not what people signed up for or that he is a terrible manager. On the first part, the pitch, conservatives are fucking brilliant.

The whole notion of an "electable democrat" is frankly laughable, the core primary electorate is large within the party but because those electors who identify as democrats are a minority, the people who choose who the nominee is, have very little in common in terms of what they view as "electable" compared to the mass of voters.

Let's put it this way: America is roughly a majority of Burkean/Christian Democrats, a first minority of New Dealists, and a second minority of Anti-interventionists. The folk who are selecting Biden ro run because they think that he is somehow "electable" fail to notice that he is appealing to the same groups that like the fundamental reasoning behind Trump's policies* even if they don't like the guy. Instead of going for that part of the electorate that oppose in principle to his logic of government.


*As noted above, no such thing exists, it's a narrative created ex-post by media outlets whose interests are aligned with Trump backers'.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, for sure Obama, Bill Clinton, and even Jimmy Carter didn’t run as the most seasoned and more electable candidates... they all actually ran as DC outsiders...

Anyway, yeah, unless shit really hits the fan, I think Trump will have the advantage...

[FaultyMario]

That's the thing, when people say "Bernie should not break the party", do they even remember the can of ass whoop Obama gave Hillary? Did it make people less enthusiastic about him?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, this time around, I think it’s apparent that Bernie failed to make a dent to the party let alone breaking it.

Democratic voters have made up their minds, they don’t want Bernie at this point. That anti-establishment sentiment is long gone. Liberal Americans would rather return to status quo thanks to Trump. Sanders wasn’t even close this time around, right? At least voters didn’t get suckered into Bloomberg’s billion dollar purchase of the White House...

If things go well, maybe governors of NY and CA could end up as better candidates...

[FaultyMario]

:rolleyes:

Why do I bother?

[FaultyMario]

Anyway, this time around, I think it’s apparent that Bernie failed to make a dent to the party let alone breaking it. Democratic voters have made up their minds, they don’t want Bernie at this point.

We. are. still. in. March.


:smh:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/2008_Democratic_primaries_polling.png

[Crazed_Insanity]

Look, I’d like Bernie to win too, but we also have to be realistic.

Since not enough young people turned out to give sanders the victory, I can’t imagine conservative young voters will be able to turn anything.

In this election cycle, nature has forced whoever’s in charge to reduce carbon emissions and to give everyone basic healthcare and universal bailout income.

IMHO, Sanders and Yang have already won.

I’d like to hear our next president dare uttering the words, we can’t afford healthcare for all and let’s cut funding to fight infectious diseases...

[neanderthal]

All the Democratic candidates dropped out when they had no reasonable path forward.

Who didn't? Bernie. He has a snowballs chance in hell. Does he do the right thing and drop out? Nope.

Fucking schmuck.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well to be fair, the path to get all 1900 something delegates has become increasingly difficult even for Biden if people can’t even vote.

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/sku94z5jp0q41.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hey that’s not really fair is it?

Every American could embrace Bernie Sanders over Trump, Hillary and Biden and we might be better off with healthcare for all, but we’ll still have the rest of those crap, won’t we? :p

[21Kid]

:rolleyes:

Why do I bother?
Exactly

[neanderthal]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/republican-party-discovers-virtues-stimulus/609244/

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/republican-party-discovers-virtues-stimulus/609244/

“ America’s political dysfunction is rooted not in ideological polarization, but in the Republican Party’s conviction that it alone should be allowed to govern.”


Yes. As you very well know that I’ve often been critical of the dems for being too weak..., I do believe the dems really need to have the same conviction in order to truly beat or at least be on par with the republicans!

What does the Democratic Party truly believe in? Serving the people or serving the establishment?

I think Obama has slowly lost touch with the ordinary people... during the financial crisis, mostly the rich was bailed out. BLM movement also was brewing... Obama was not to blamed for any of that, but it was clear that he didn’t take a stand with the people.

Bernie Sanders is the only clear candidate standing with ordinary Americans, but dem establishment doesn’t really believe in people anymore. It’s now mostly about getting things done. Well, let’s see what they can do.

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/69s4mcauc8q41.jpg

[FaultyMario]

No lies detected.

[Jason]

I’d prefer a more progressive candidate... but I don’t see how the primary has been rigged.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That liberal kid looks like he’s stuck on a cruise ship?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’d prefer a more progressive candidate... but I don’t see how the primary has been rigged.

Iowa? You forgot about that? Hello? The wonderful shadow app? And the amazing coin tosses?

As for the last minute everyone drop out of the race for Biden..., I guess that won’t really count as rigging. That’s just manipulating. Also manipulating the rules to allowing Bloomberg in debates.

Anyway, source of the problem is Sanders. If he could just go away, the process could’ve been normal.

Of course, voters have also made it clear that they want somebody electable, not somebody they believe in. So this time, it’s not entirely the dem establishments fault.

Conviction is something we on the left lack collectively, which is the why we usually lose to them crazy dumbass republicans.

[FaultyMario]

Wait, the border wall is an ongoing project? Funds weren't re-appropriated to healthcare?

[Crazed_Insanity]

It’s critical to Mexican National security! We need to make sure we keep Americans in and not spread disease to Mexico! We’re not even asking you to pay for it. Cool, huh?

[FaultyMario]

Not funny, dude. It's just a vanity project for Trump who will use the monstrosity in his reelection ads, taxpayer dollars are basically subsidizing his campaign.

Meanwhile the project has already caused irreversible damage to precious desert micro-ecosystems*, not to mention that the money could have much uses at the moment.



*Yes, those oasis are at binational crosspoints, but they are so isolated and the surroundings so rough that they're really not useful for people walking thru the desert.

[Crazed_Insanity]

In all seriousness, we need to let Trump make that decision on his own. The more liberals get on his case about that, the more it becomes political... and the more they'll continue construction.

Each state could have easily declare such construction as non-essential and stop it and tell the workers to go home.

We have a more important fight going on. No point wasting it on the wall.

If the Republicans feel that they have the money to continue with the wall, whatever. Dems just need to worry about taking care of average americans better. If Republicans whine about can't afford something..., then tell them to take it out of the wall budget.

[FaultyMario]

Doesn't a strip of land inside from the border (be it land or sea) always fall under federal jurisdiction? Not sure states could legally block work in those areas.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That is something I don't really know for sure.

My point is that since dems have failed to stop the wall before, I just don't think now is a better time to pick that same fight to force them to stop now. If possible, it's probably better to shut them down in the name of social distancing. If that' can't even legally be done, then fuck it.

There are many other more important fights that are way more worthy than that stupid wall. Just let them know that if they whine about money about the fight against this virus, just point to the wall to remind them.

[FaultyMario]

Sure, I just that 18B could be put to better use.

[FaultyMario]

It's official: nothing will fundamentally change (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5dm8bx/leaked-amazon-memo-details-plan-to-smear-fired-warehouse-organizer-hes-not-smart-or-articulate)if corporate democrats (https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/10/31/20941247/amazon-jay-carney-spokesperson-world-series-umpires-tweet-apology) return to WH.

[FaultyMario]

I repeat, nothing will fundamentally change (https://prospect.org/economy/hospital-bailouts-begin-for-those-owned-by-private-equity-firms/).



But why is Easton Hospital struggling so much more than other hospitals? Size matters, but its private equity buyout history matters more. In March 2017, Cerberus acquired Easton, along with seven other hospitals, in a leveraged buyout for an undisclosed amount from Community Health Systems (CHS). While we don’t know how much debt Steward took on in order to buy out Easton, the typical private equity buyout includes debt financing in the range of 50 percent to 70 percent of the purchase price, which the acquisition, in this case Easton Hospital, is expected to repay. We do know that at the time of the sale, Steward sold the property of all eight hospitals to a real-estate investment trust, Medical Properties Trust (MPT), and pocketed $304 million in return.

Since then, Easton Hospital has had to pay rent on property it had owned for the 127 years of its existence. How much of Easton’s revenues have been used to pay down debt Steward incurred to acquire it and to pay rent on its facilities—revenues that could have been used to financially stabilize the hospital?

Easton’s financial struggles began under the ownership of CHS, itself originally owned by private equity firm Forstmann Little & Co. Forstmann used the classic private equity leveraged buyout model to buy out hospitals and load them with debt. Forstmann cashed out in the mid-2000s, but CHS continued the LBO strategy with financing from Forstmann even after it went public. Its largest buyout came in 2014, when CHS bought Health Management Associates (HMA) to form the largest for-profit chain in the country by number of hospitals—with more than 200 hospitals and 30,000 beds. But this led CHS to crash.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I do believe most who voted for Biden understand that things will change from trump to fundamentally what it was before.

They wouldn’t dare dream any bigger than that.

Maybe we should take baby steps. There’s no guarantee that we can even make such baby steps.

I guess this is fundamentally the difference between 2 parties. One of them wants to rule and the other one is only concerned about beating the other party.

It’s time to rule, Neanderthal. Fuck the republicans.

As for Bernie, if he can’t even rule over the dems, it there just aren’t enough young people, what chance will he have to beat Trump?

If COVID19 doesn’t significantly alter the election to Bernie’s favor, democratic socialism just won’t happen in the near future.

[Tom Servo]

It would have been so nice to have Warren as president right now.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It’s strange liberals react to infectious diseases with more urgency compared to conservatives based on governor’s reactions.

I guess as much as they love walls, they understand they’re useless against the virus? Anyway, don’t understand why prolife folks can be so liberal about a deadly virus and why pro choice folks can act more quickly to lock people down... politics is confusing.

Anyway, so I do believe president Hillary probably would’ve done a better job than trump.

In Taiwan also, if the liberal party failed to win the election, surly the newly elected conservative and probeijing party would have turned Taiwan to Italy!

[Jason]

It would have been so nice to have Warren as president right now.

<3

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/fb8xtu4vklq41.jpg

[Rikadyn]

Maybe we should take baby steps. There’s no guarantee that we can even make such baby steps.


"Those who make revolution by half steps, dig their own graves"

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://i.redd.it/fb8xtu4vklq41.jpg

:lol:

I think Sanders should pave the way for a more legit 3rd party to exist. Come next presidential election, for sure there won't be any Trump to worry about... and even if Biden wins 2020, he said he's not going for reelection... even if he does run for reelection, will voters like Neanderthal really be all that enthusiastic about him?

So all the current progressives in Congress really should just band together and form a 3rd party and get ready for the next presidential election.

Obviously riding on DNC's coattail won't get you anywhere.

[Crazed_Insanity]

"Those who make revolution by half steps, dig their own graves"

I won't disagree with that..., but a revolution thru election is probably out of question at this point.

I'm not willing to start a revolution exercising my right to bear arms yet. I'll think about it if somebody like Trump becomes a dictator or something like that.

Hopefully this virus will do some revolutionary things... So far so good. We cut down carbon emissions, we'll probably have Medicaid for all poor americans, we also now have some for of universal basic income going... the gap between rich and poor are shrinking naturally...

What voters and elected politicians didn't choose to do willingly, nature has forced them to do...