Politics

[Jason]

The fact that a major part of the Democratic Party is on board with M4A and Green New Deal type things means the party is moving left. Is it moving left at the speed some of us would like? Nope. But it is happening. Reality is, Biden still is running away with the primary, and neither Sanders or Warren were able to appeal to black voters, or moderate voters. Until a progressive can appeal to a larger base, it’s going to be a very slow movement.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes. Can’t argue with that!

However, I really think we need another major party in place in order to keep these party establishments from playing the less of two evil games... or being so focused on just defeating the other party...

Or perhaps have a truly opened primary... so perhaps during the general election, voters can select between 2 candidates from the same party! ( because these are the 2 best final candidates, not because they are the best bozos each party can offer!)

We need to be able come up with ways to help more qualified candidates to be on ballots rather than allowing the party to designate their favorite... or worse case is that allowing some bozo like trump to hijack the GOP.

We need new ways to pit candidates vs candidates rather than party vs party. Need to blur the line between partisan divides somehow...

Current system is rigged against the DNC. Of course GOP has diligently planned it that way. They can rule when they’re majority and then can also easily block when they’re not in power.

For whatever reasons, republicans look like dumbasses, but behind the scenes, I believe they have way better smart masterminds strategizing for them... maybe it’s just easier for senator palpatine to use these stupid dumbasses as pawns?

[FaultyMario]

The president has notified Congress that he is removing the inspector general for the intelligence community, the official who helped make sure Congress got the Ukraine whistleblower complaint. The firing will take effect in 30 days, according to a letter obtained by NBC News.

"The most dangerous President in modern history".

[Rikadyn]

"The most dangerous President in modern history".

Until the next one.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, just as it was hard to imagine somebody worse than W...

[neanderthal]

When black people complained about Bernie endorsing his endorsement by Joe Rogan, the left scoffed at us.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/03/comedian-podcast-hostjoe-rogan-id-vote-for-trump-over-biden/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[neanderthal]

The president has notified Congress that he is removing the inspector general for the intelligence community, the official who helped make sure Congress got the Ukraine whistleblower complaint. The firing will take effect in 30 days, according to a letter obtained by NBC News.

"The most dangerous President in modern history".

Does it need to be stated that that same inspector general will have timelines and memos about meetings and response to this corona virus thing?

[Crazed_Insanity]

When black people complained about Bernie endorsing his endorsement by Joe Rogan, the left scoffed at us.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/03/comedian-podcast-hostjoe-rogan-id-vote-for-trump-over-biden/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

If you really care about Joe Rogan endorsements, then Sanders needs to be the nominee in order to prevent him from going to Trump.

If you don’t really care, then black people can continue on scoffing Joe Rogan as before.

[neanderthal]

COVID19 is not racist,* it doesn't discriminate.
But health care does, power does, and you better believe capitalism does.

This is where the post was supposed to end.


It's interesting noting how the fatality rates for it are higher among the black population than the general population. It's not much different, something like six percent. But when you think about redlining, environmental racism, food deserts, the school to prison pipeline, disparate rates of arrests, charges, prosecution and hail, cash bail, ... it really fucks with you.

It's fascinating looking at which states are being sent federal help and which ones are getting faulty ventilators.

And what's frustrating is that looking through the lens of Medicaid expansion through Obamacare, some states should be far worse than they are because they didn't expand Medicaid. We know which ones. We know how they voted. We know who government them.

But, black people are getting the short end of the stick, as always.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No argument there.

Some of us think Sanders is the best person to fix those power/wealth gap problems, but obviously black people have different ideas. Let’s hope Biden wins and gets the job done.

Btw, CA got broken ventilators too. I guess we could blame the federal govt, but CA also has its own stockpile of masks, all are beyond expiration date...

We were simply caught unprepared...

[FaultyMario]

But, black people are getting the short end of the stick, as always.

Senator Bernie Sanders is the one politician working for those who are always getting the short end of the stick, go to the youtube and look it up.

[neanderthal]

Senator Bernie Sanders is the one politician working for those who are always getting the short end of the stick, go to the youtube and look it up.

You forgot to end with </sarcasm.>

We could get into why I say that but i'm pretty sure you already know.

[neanderthal]

If there is one thing that we get out of this, I hope that we start to depend on China FAR LESS for all our manufacturing.
We should be making these N95 masks here. Ventilators. Etc.

[Yw-slayer]

3527

[neanderthal]

If there is another thing we get out of this corona virus thing, i hope its the end of Faux News from the millions of lawsuits against them.

[Jason]

Fox and Trump are radioactive cockroaches, there is no killing them

[FaultyMario]

Where is Obama? Has he found his spine or is it still hidden behind his 'legacy'?

A joint statement of all 4 living expresidents is long overdue.

[Jason]

Obama, unfortunately, would do more harm than good. If he suggested to people to drink water, Trump would go up there and try to ban water the next day. As much as I admire, respect, and miss Obama... I understand him keeping relatively quiet because of how disliked he is by the current administration.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That is definitely true.

What good would it do if the joint ex’s statements condemns Trump? Likewise if their statements were to urge people to listen to trump... nothing good can come out of that.

Best they can do is to perhaps to just locally organize efforts to save people’s lives.

[neanderthal]

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1246496194098016258?s=19

King went there to help *black* sanitation workers. White sanitation workers didn't have the same problems.

This is why I don't fuck with Bernie. Everything is economics to him. Racism don't care bout your economics.

[MR2 Fan]

Obama, unfortunately, would do more harm than good. If he suggested to people to drink water, Trump would go up there and try to ban water the next day. As much as I admire, respect, and miss Obama... I understand him keeping relatively quiet because of how disliked he is by the current administration.

Then Obama should tell Trump directly to NOT ingest hydrowhateveritscalled

[neanderthal]

Where is Obama? Has he found his spine or is it still hidden behind his 'legacy'?

A joint statement of all 4 living expresidents is long overdue.

What would that joint statement do to change the attitude of the "fuck your feelings" trumpsters?

Obama did his stint. Then he told us go out there and vote for the future of our country. Waved and rode into the sunset. He can sit his black ass down and sip whatever his choice of libation is.

[neanderthal]

Then Obama should tell Trump directly to NOT ingest hydrowhateveritscalled

It'd be great if he could wag the dog, but then the undecideds and third party voters would decide Trump is doing a great job. And fuck us all over again.

[MR2 Fan]

so Boris Johnson is now in the hospital for his COVID symptoms....what happens to the position if he is unable to fulfill his duties? anyone know?

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1246496194098016258?s=19

King went there to help *black* sanitation workers. White sanitation workers didn't have the same problems.

This is why I don't fuck with Bernie. Everything is economics to him. Racism don't care bout your economics.

Economy does help a bit. Rich and famous black people get way better treatment than poor white people.

Narrowing the wealth gap will help reduce racism.

The concept of equal work equal pay should not specifically target any specific race or gender. It should simply be equal work equal pay for all! When we can achieve that, we’ll be able to reduce racism and sexism. We won’t completely eradicate racism or or sexism but they will be reduced.

Besides action, money speak louder than words.

If a society is really serious about these unfair isms, than it needs to pay its citizens fairly. If anything, unequal wages can be used as a gauge to measure race/gender inequalities.

If Bernie or whoever else later could seriously narrow the wealth gap, I’m almost certain all other unfair gaps would also be reduced. Nevertheless, of course we won’t ever be completely equal... because we all won’t be doing the same equal exact work...

[neanderthal]

So, the captain who warned about COVID19 on his ship and was "relieved of his duties" for doing so, just tested positive for it. :|

Fuck Trump.

[neanderthal]

So, the captain who warned about COVID19 on his ship and was "relieved of his duties" for doing so, just tested positive for it. :|

Fuck Trump.

[George]

One of our neighbors has a flagpole in their yard and they fly the American flag. Lately we've noticed they have a blue Trump flag flying underneath it.

My wife said, "I'm surprised they didn't put the Trump flag on top."

[The359]

There's a house around here that I pass that has a Trump flag with the American flag as the background billowing on it, at the top of their flag pole, and below it is the normal blue Trump flag.

I wonder if they understand the first one isn't an American flag?

[FaultyMario]

Is it this one?


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71kaEk-LmCL._AC_SL1024_.jpg

[The359]

No, it's literally a flag that just features a "waving" pattern for the American flag, with Trump's campaign logo emblazzened across it.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/cw0AAOSwul9dOktg/s-l1600.jpg

Similar to this.

[Tom Servo]

A flag that's an image of a flag that's billowing in a way that the flag that it appears on isn't?

This enrages me way more than it should. It reminds me of my old roommate who used to say that the only tattoo he wanted was of himself only bigger.

[FaultyMario]

My choice was less tacky.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Trump is for sure the worst ever but he really isn’t all bad...

Covid19 has exposed a serious problem and I hope partisan politics won’t lose sight of the threat from CCP at the expense of Americans.


Contrary to what critics argue, “America first” does not mean “America alone.” That Trump might be introducing needed correctives to the hyper-globalization pursued by earlier administrations is generating serious cognitive dissonance in some quarters. And the reality is that only one organization in the entire world has as its sole responsibility the American people’s safety. That institution is the U.S. government. Whether led by Republicans or Democrats—or by Donald Trump or anyone else—it should always put the American people first.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/consider-possibility-trump-right-china/609493/

Just to be clear that I have no issues with China or Chinese in general, but CCP is really dangerous.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Another thought provoking piece from the Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/revolution-only-getting-started/609463/

As democrats yearn for normalcy by rejecting Bernie’s revolution, it seems nature, or the CCP, has actually forced us into another one...

[MR2 Fan]

that trump flag is probably breaking U.S. flag code as well, lol

[drew]

As an aside, northbound I95, just as you get into GA leaving FL, about 200-300 yards from the highway is a property with three gigantic flagpoles/flags. Center (tallest) is a battle flag that is probably as big as a garage, flanked on either side by a slightly smaller US flag.

Classy.

[Jason]

that trump flag is probably breaking U.S. flag code as well, lol

It’s always ironic that those who seem to care the most about the flag code are also the sort that will gladly buy flag shorts, or flag towels, and sit their asses all over said freedom symbol.

[Jason]

Trump is for sure the worst ever but he really isn’t all bad...

You really haven’t been paying attention then. On this alone, the fact that he gutted the pandemic response team, and delayed serious response to the current pandemic is costing American lives right now. If you think that “isn’t all that bad” then I really want to know what you think would be “bad”.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Nobody is all bad, except perhaps Satan! :p

Anyway, I'm not trying to defend Trump at all, just that we shouldn't totally disregard everything that he's done. Please read the Atlantic article I linked if you want to examine some of the things that past admins have done wrong by not putting america first in pursuit of globalism.

If Trump's 'America first' means America the isolationist do it alone, then of course that's not the right approach and I'm not a fan of that. However, at the moment, we have out sourced a LOT of critical things from 5G network to critical medications in the name of capitalism/globalism. Do we really want China to be able to secretly spy on americans' daily lives and hold americans' health hostage?

Even if this disaster is indeed an accident and China meant the world no harm... most of our medical supplies actually were manufactured in Wuhan, China! We have paved the way to screw ourselves over even before Trump came along. Of course Trump's handling before and after this crisis is definitely fucked up too, but Trump reversing globalism may be the right thing to do. But of course at this point it's probably too little too late anyway. Hopefully we learn our lessons and stop relying on foreign nations on our critical supplies and infrastructures too much. Particularly relying on a nation with an authoritarian regime.

[drew]

Don't forget selling $10s of millions in masks to other countries to make a buck, while it was a growing concern here, and they didn't start ramping up production until a few weeks ago. Fuck Trump.

Also, I use American flag condoms, for fucking freedom.

[neanderthal]

In a 5-4 vote, the Supreme Court sides with Republicans to block an extension to Wisconsin's absentee voting in the election tomorrow.

We said the courts are at stake, but people chose to ignore that and vote 3rd party or something else. Her emails were a bridge too far. :smh:

Still can't say what was in those emails.

[neanderthal]

Make it make sense.
The same Berners saying "believe Tara Reade" were telling us not to believe what Liz Warren said transpired in her meeting with Bernie.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I guess I'm a different kind of berner.

[Rikadyn]

Make it make sense.
The same Berners saying "believe Tara Reade" were telling us not to believe what Liz Warren said transpired in her meeting with Bernie.

So you think that is the same thing as rape. Good to know.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Bernie initially wanted Warren to run back in 2016. She chose not to, so he did. Hillary also won the popular vote. So there's no real reason to believe Bernie believes a woman cannot win. Warren was either lying or perhaps mixed up her memories or misinterpreted what Bernie said.

Biden is a touchy feely kinda guy, so accusations of unwanted touching is way more believable... a lot of women also came forward. There were also some women who defended his touches... it was just different times. However, if Biden really were a sexual predator who'd finger penetrate a woman against her will, I seriously doubt he could only do that once... and never does it again when he gain more and more political power later on. (See Bill Clinton) I can't say for sure Reade is lying, but without more evidence or women coming out, it's just less believable.

I won't blindly support Bernie, nor will I blindly support the me too movement. If something cannot be evidence based, please make it more believable.

[neanderthal]

So you think that is the same thing as rape. Good to know.

Quote me where I said it is.

[neanderthal]

We are in the midst of a pandemic. The GOP wants to hold elections anyway. Black people are doing at disproportionally higher rates from corona virus. Milwaukee has the highest population of black people in the state.

They went from 180 polling stations to just five.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, Sanders is out. Hope Neanderthal is happier now?

However, it almost doesn’t matter now. Democrats’ desire for normalcy will be denied anyways...

For the party establishment who believed they can’t afford this or that... well, they’ll likely spend even more on healthcare, pay higher wages to get workers to work and cut carbon emissions along the way... and I wonder universities will be able to continue to charge such high tuitions teaching online courses?

We’re having a ‘revolution’ whether we like it or not. Just hope we’ll re-emerge out of this better than before...

Anyway Bernie, although it might look like you ran 2 times for nothing, thanks anyway! :)

[dodint]

Maybe he can try accomplishing something in the next four years before running a fruitless campaign again.

[neanderthal]

Bernie really waited until people waited in line for five hours in these corona virus times.

Fuck Bernie Sanders.

[Jason]

The divisive narrative is tiring...

Glad he dropped out, probably should have dropped out sooner, could have stayed in longer, so I’m glad it’s happening now vs later.

Hopefully he mobilizes his base to support Biden, as we definitely need unity.

Progressives need to do a better job of realizing this isn’t the end of the world, progress takes time in our system, unfortunately. More and more “establishment” Democrats support things like M4A. The fact that it’s even a possibility now should be seen as a huge win for Sanders and progressives, we are historically a very conservative nation. If we can win the House and win the Senate, we might even have a chance of pushing a bill for M4A, or some step towards it before Biden’s presidency is over.

Wouldn’t that be better than Trump trying to strip healthcare from people?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Maybe he can try accomplishing something in the next four years before running a fruitless campaign again.

I think this article by Daily Beast summed things up quite well. Both Sanders' supporters and critics are wrong! :p

https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-bernie-sanders-really-got-done-in-his-29-years-in-congress?ref=scroll

"He has really accomplished very little legislatively. He has accomplished a lot in terms of ideology. And that’s an important role."
— former Rep. Barney Frank

"Bernie’s strength is his authenticity as an outsider—he’s said we were a corrupt oligarchy even before it was true—but as a result, he does not have an impressive record of accomplishments. It’s kind of hard to be both an authentic outsider and an effective insider."
— former Rep. Brad Miller

[Crazed_Insanity]

The divisive narrative is tiring...

Glad he dropped out, probably should have dropped out sooner, could have stayed in longer, so I’m glad it’s happening now vs later.

Hopefully he mobilizes his base to support Biden, as we definitely need unity.

Progressives need to do a better job of realizing this isn’t the end of the world, progress takes time in our system, unfortunately. More and more “establishment” Democrats support things like M4A. The fact that it’s even a possibility now should be seen as a huge win for Sanders and progressives, we are historically a very conservative nation. If we can win the House and win the Senate, we might even have a chance of pushing a bill for M4A, or some step towards it before Biden’s presidency is over.

Wouldn’t that be better than Trump trying to strip healthcare from people?

Will Trump really continue to strip healthcare from people now?

Will Biden really still believe we can't afford healthcare for all now?

At this point, I think support from the progressives is no longer relevant. Biden didn't need them to win the nomination... and probably won't need them for the general as well.

Biden was selling us 'normalcy'... it's just not going to happen in the near future.

It'll basically come down to how Trump handles this outbreak from now til the election.

If people perceiving that he did well and saved America, then surely he'll be reelected. If not, then Biden will get a shot.

Hope we won't be stuck in a limbo where 50% of american thought Trump saved america and we can make it great again... and then 50% became scared to leave the house...

[Rikadyn]

Also a good portion of Bernie's base are socialist/communist/anarchists. Bernie was the compromise.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Are there really still communists in america?

I can understand socialism and you've educated me a bit about anarchists, but why would any americans still be interested in communism?

[Rikadyn]

Are there really still communists in america?

I can understand socialism and you've educated me a bit about anarchists, but why would any americans still be interested in communism?

Communism is a branch of socialist theory. Difference between communism and anarchism is that communist believe that the state is something that can be controlled by the people, while anarchist argue that any consolidation of power inherent begins to form hierarchies and thus returns to forces oppressing those they deem as out group.

However this is more an issue post-stalin, where we see parties becoming no better than their capitalist counterparts, though there is pretty wide sentiment in former communist countries that quality of life was better under communist policies if not the party itself.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think it should be obvious now that there's no way for people to control their governments, particularly if it is given more power. If people can lose control of their governments in democracies, there's just no way I can be convinced that people could exert greater control over the government even under a 'democratic' communism.

I think Gene Rodenberry's Star Trek universe offers us a glimpse of the best possible scenario for a socialistic or perhaps even a communistic world? Not really sure if there's really a need for anyone to feel the need to own anything anymore in such a world... having abundance energy source that can be used to convert into whatever we need/want..., but even with such wonderful tech, can an organization as good as Starfleet really become immune to corruption forever?

I think I'm leaning more and more toward anarchistic... ;)

If history taught us anything..., anything that's too big(to fail)won't be good for us in the end. This can be true even for a Christian Church! Even the good old USA may have become way too big for her own good... and we the American people have long lost control of our very own government... and thus allowing it to wreak havoc all over the world... and of course the Chinese Communist Party is taking notes and copying and trying to make China great again too. With more resources and population, catching up will only be a matter of time.

[neanderthal]

Maybe he can try accomplishing something in the next four years before running a fruitless campaign again.

I'm glad you said it coz I didn't want to be the one who had to say it.

[neanderthal]

The divisive narrative is tiring...

Glad he dropped out, probably should have dropped out sooner, could have stayed in longer, so I’m glad it’s happening now vs later.

Hopefully he mobilizes his base to support Biden, as we definitely need unity.

Progressives need to do a better job of realizing this isn’t the end of the world, progress takes time in our system, unfortunately. More and more “establishment” Democrats support things like M4A. The fact that it’s even a possibility now should be seen as a huge win for Sanders and progressives, we are historically a very conservative nation. If we can win the House and win the Senate, we might even have a chance of pushing a bill for M4A, or some step towards it before Biden’s presidency is over.

Wouldn’t that be better than Trump trying to strip healthcare from people?

If progressives *show up* and vote for Democrats in every race on the ticket, and republicans are swept from the White House, Congress, Senate, Governorships, state congress, state Senate, mayorships, city council, etc all the way to dog catcher, then there is a good chance a lot of their ideals can start to get implemented.


But from what i'm seeing on twitter they want to be courted. They want ... passion. They want excitement. :erm: And i'm over here thinking "voting is about being dead serious about what's going on." and what we can do about it going forward.

But if the American public chooses to be somewhat ambivalent about the danger that not only Trump, but the Republicans, pose to our country, and we end up with no clear veto proof majority, then it's going to be much of the same. Because that's how things work.

At this point it really is on Bernie Sanders to be the bigger man, something he should have done much earlier in 2016, back the nominee, and go HARD for them. *And that means addressing the dissenters in his camp.* Hillary went hard for President Obama as soon as she dropped out and that's one of the reasons she is still a beloved figure.

Warren needs to back Biden too, Biden needs to pick his veep, and they (preferably all) need to start crafting the platform that they'll oppose Trump with.

[Jason]

I still argue there’s a shit ton of astroturfing happening on social media when it comes to politics these days.

[neanderthal]

Will Trump really continue to strip healthcare from people now?

Will Biden really still believe we can't afford healthcare for all now?

At this point, I think support from the progressives is no longer relevant. Biden didn't need them to win the nomination... and probably won't need them for the general as well.

Biden was selling us 'normalcy'... it's just not going to happen in the near future.

It'll basically come down to how Trump handles this outbreak from now til the election.

If people perceiving that he did well and saved America, then surely he'll be reelected. If not, then Biden will get a shot.

Hope we won't be stuck in a limbo where 50% of american thought Trump saved america and we can make it great again... and then 50% became scared to leave the house...

This zero sum shit is what I see from pretty much all the progressives. Because clearly if you don't think we can implement M4A now as Bernie purports, you are against people having any type of health care.</sarcasm> :rolleyes:

Healthcare is not mutually exclusive with M4A, and I wish y'all wouldn't act like it is.

[neanderthal]

I still argue there’s a shit ton of astroturfing happening on social media when it comes to politics these days.

You ain't lying.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This zero sum shit is what I see from pretty much all the progressives. Because clearly if you don't think we can implement M4A now as Bernie purports, you are against people having any type of health care.</sarcasm> :rolleyes:

Healthcare is not mutually exclusive with M4A, and I wish y'all wouldn't act like it is.

I totally agree. I don't quite understand why Bernie is so stubborn about M4A. Why does it have to be his way or the high way?

Likewise, I don't understand why Biden need to veto M4A even if congress put it forward for him to sign. Why? It'll bankrupt the federal government? Really? Are we worried about bankrupting the government now?

The objective should just be to make basic healthcare available to all... do it thru obamacare or M4A or whateveryougonnacallit... I don't really care. Obama couldn't get it done. Will Biden be able to?

If some of the poor americans end up being left behind... guess which race will likely be the ones stuck in that left behind group? White people? Latinos? Asians?

I do hope Biden wins... and I do hope Biden will truly return the favor to black americans. However, somehow, I don't think that's gonna happen. Anyway, we'll see.

At the moment, it really doesn't matter who's in the WH. Trump could not sign the Paris accord, but globally, we are already reducing carbon emissions at a never thought possible level now! Even without Bernie, I'm pretty sure even the poor will now have some sort of healthcare... hopefully at least medicaid for all. Although without Andrew Yang, we're going to have UBI for a while.

God... or Mother Nature, will dictate what's the right thing to do whether we like it or not! :p

Of course, may the most appropriate person end up at the WH of course. Trump really need to be thrown out one way or another.

[neanderthal]

Except ... Biden hasn't vetoed M4A. You're stating a future possibility as a fact. Clearly you have a vessel that can travel across time. While you're at it, holla at me with the winning lottery numbers for tonight. :rolleyes:

[Jason]

On the healthcare front:

https://www.newsweek.com/over-7-million-americans-lose-health-insurance-during-coronavirus-pandemic-15-million-have-1496925

And

https://www.salon.com/2020/04/05/health-care-insurers-expected-to-raise-premiums-by-as-much-as-40-to-recoup-coronavirus-losses/

Hopefully Biden’s plans work towards addressing things like this because as it looks right now, a lot of people are going to be without insurance, and those with it will see higher prices due to this pandemic.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Except ... Biden hasn't vetoed M4A. You're stating a future possibility as a fact. Clearly you have a vessel that can travel across time. While you're at it, holla at me with the winning lottery numbers for tonight. :rolleyes:

Okay, perhaps future facts are not true... he could eat his words later by actually signing it? Lord knows.

Still, I was basing my criticism on articles such as this one: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/10/biden-says-he-wouldd-veto-medicare-for-all-as-coronavirus-focuses-attention-on-health.html

I really don't see what would be the benefit of saying stuff like that? Just to piss off the progressives as stupid idiots who are unwilling to face reality? We can't afford it means we can't afford it. Even if a republican congress hypothetically pass this bill, "I WILL NOT SIGN IT!"

Why say that? I don't get it.

Hopefully once he's in the WH, he'll forget about what he said.

Can we stop fighting now and just wish Biden will win?

And if he doesn't win, can yous stop blaming it on me again?

Seriously, I'm not a republican and Hillary didn't lose because of people like me. Dems have to be sincere about where they went wrong in order to truly improve their chances.

The sad thing about Biden is that he wasn't chosen by the people. People were being 'told' to vote for him. Is this how our democracy is suppose to work?

Anyway, I'm too tired to give a damn now.

[Jason]

Biden got the most votes, he was chosen by the people. That’s how that works. He had the most name recognition among moderates, and moderates are a bigger base than progressives. It’s not that complicated.

[Crazed_Insanity]

On the healthcare front:

https://www.newsweek.com/over-7-million-americans-lose-health-insurance-during-coronavirus-pandemic-15-million-have-1496925

And

https://www.salon.com/2020/04/05/health-care-insurers-expected-to-raise-premiums-by-as-much-as-40-to-recoup-coronavirus-losses/

Hopefully Biden’s plans work towards addressing things like this because as it looks right now, a lot of people are going to be without insurance, and those with it will see higher prices due to this pandemic.

I think the ironic twist of fate will be that, whoever's in charge, he will end up spending more federal dollars on healthcare than Sander's original plan... and we probably still won't end up with healthcare for all americans.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Biden got the most votes, he was chosen by the people. That’s how that works. He had the most name recognition among moderates, and moderates are a bigger base than progressives. It’s not that complicated.

Biden was trailing in Iowa and NH only doing slighly better than Andrew Yang, remember?

Also, ideally, I'd like to see candidates drop out because money or support is running out... like Andrew Yang or Kamala... not to just quit because they were being told to quit.

Future primaries really should all just be open/cross party and all happening at the same time to make things easier. Forget about allowing Iowans or SCers decide who's viable or not. The final top 2 candidates(could be of the same party) will then be on the ballot during general election. Make it less about party vs party but more about which candidate is truly better.

[neanderthal]

Biden was trailing in Iowa and NH only doing slighly better than Andrew Yang, remember?

Also, ideally, I'd like to see candidates drop out because money or support is running out... like Andrew Yang or Kamala... not to just quit because they were being told to quit.

Future primaries really should all just be open/cross party and all happening at the same time to make things easier. Forget about allowing Iowans or SCers decide who's viable or not. The final top 2 candidates(could be of the same party) will then be on the ballot during general election. Make it less about party vs party but more about which candidate is truly better.

So what? They're among the two least diverse states. There was 100 billionty candidates in the race at the time.

[neanderthal]

The DNC should make the first three races ranked choice elections. Fuck that non democratic non representative caucus shit.

[FaultyMario]

But his Bros (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rubycramer/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-staffers)!!

[Tom Servo]

I finally found this article that I read almost a month ago:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/black-voters-democratic-establishment/2020/03/12/59390058-6460-11ea-845d-e35b0234b136_story.html

[Crazed_Insanity]

Man, somebody should’ve told Sanders about that...

[neanderthal]

I finally found this article that I read almost a month ago:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/black-voters-democratic-establishment/2020/03/12/59390058-6460-11ea-845d-e35b0234b136_story.html

That's a brilliant article. It encapsulates the black political experience so well.

[drew]

I sincerely hope the "Bros" don't do the Trump vote for spite again.

Fucking assholes.

[Jason]

The DNC should make the first three races ranked choice elections. Fuck that non democratic non representative caucus shit.

I’d like to just see the whole nation hold their primaries on the same day, along with ranked choice, specifically Positional ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positional_voting).

[dodint]

Jason has good opinions. :up:

I think Iowa really stepped on a rake this year. And clearly the outcome there wasn't representative of the overall result. Hopefully the politicians will follow the attitude of the people and stop paying attention to it. The only candidates that have a reason to give Iowa a strong push are the ones that never had a chance to begin with but need the airtime.

[Jason]

Jason has good opinions. :up:

Welp, my job here is done, thanks everyone, see you on the flippity flip!

[neanderthal]

I sincerely hope the "Bros" don't do the Trump vote for spite again.

Fucking assholes.

Oh, they fitt'na do it. Certainly the twitterati are.

Nevermind that the Supreme Court is at stake. RBG can only hold on for so long. We should have had two liberal/ left leaning justices on there right now, but we have Gorsuch and Kavanaugh thanks to third party voters and stay at homers.
I wonder if HRC would be a good SC justice nominee. Just to fuck with the Republicans a whole fucking lot!

[neanderthal]

I’d like to just see the whole nation hold their primaries on the same day, along with ranked choice, specifically Positional ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positional_voting).

We definitely need a national day of election, for the general.

For the primaries, I think the lesser candidates would get lost in the shuffle. Let's be clear that i'm not against it. I guess my reticence is based on voting in California when the decision had already been mostly made. It allowed me to make a pragmatic vote based on the best remaining candidates, and I liked that most of the "noise had been removed from the graph."
If there was one day only for the primaries, then candidates would only campaign in the largest cities/ conurbations; New York, Los Angeles/ Long Beach (there's literally 10 cities in So Cal I can name off the top of my head that have populations of 200000 or more that are part of the greater Los Angeles conurbation and are in LA, San Bernadino, Ventura or Riverside counties,) Houston, Chicago, Dallas/ Fort Worth, San Francisco/ San Jose/ Oakland, Phoenix, Illadelphia, San Diego, etc. Which means California, Texas, New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania, and that's pretty much it.

But, I suppose that's exactly where positional ranked choice voting comes into play.

Like the brotha said, you got good opinions.

[FaultyMario]

I sincerely hope the "Bros" don't do the Trump vote for spite again.

Fucking assholes.

They never did. At least according to serious research, they behaved well within normal parameters.

[FaultyMario]

RBG can only hold on for so long.

I Biden wins, which we all hope, but I sincerely doubt, he'll appoint a conservative judge, he is a Republican in all but name.

[neanderthal]

I Biden wins, which we all hope, but I sincerely doubt, he'll appoint a conservative judge, he is a Republican in all but name.

lol. That's almost billi asinine.

Biden has been a Democrat since the stone ages. Just because he isn't as progressive as others doesn't make him a Republican.
And, for the record, i'm no Biden apologist.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You know, it just dawned on me why we have a conservative leaning congress and Supreme Court!

We have 2 major parties... one of them is conservative and the other is moderate. So when you average out the 2 major parties, we end up with a conservative leaning congress and Supreme Court! ;)

We only compensate for the lack of turning left by NASCAR/Indycar oval racing... :D

[neanderthal]

Monjula Ray (@QueerBengali) tweeted this and I felt it down to my soul.

"All the left movements do a disservice when they lie about Democrats.
For most Democrats, after a while it gets hard to trust any of these people because frankly if you can't tell the difference between Obama and Trump, your opinion has no real value."


And it explained so much about why I have almost zero regard for billis political nous. And I say that as someone who goes to great lengths to give everybody a modicum of respect.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Why do you think I’m unable to tell the difference between orange and black?

You think since none of them are Asian, they all look alike to me?

You are a condescending mutherfoquer. I don’t deserve your BS respect.

And I want you to know that you’ve help me to make up my mind to just stay home during November. Not even going to bother with 3rd party this time.

[neanderthal]

You know, it just dawned on me why we have a conservative leaning congress and Supreme Court!

We have 2 major parties... one of them is conservative and the other is moderate. So when you average out the 2 major parties, we end up with a conservative leaning congress and Supreme Court! ;)

We only compensate for the lack of turning left by NASCAR/Indycar oval racing... :D

And, as fate would have it, billi posits something that just perfectly encapsulates that.

AGAIN!!! Moderates/ "establishment Democrats" are who passed civil rights, the voting rights act, Roe v Wade, Obamacare, etc. It wasn't progressives.

[neanderthal]

Why do you think I’m unable to tell the difference between orange and black?

You think since none of them are Asian, they all look alike to me?

You are a condescending mutherfoquer. I don’t deserve your BS respect.

You mentioned their race, not me. And you do deserve my condescension. You can look at that tweet i quoted and ponder for yourself why. Back to being ignored.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, moderates are simply not progressive enough.

Dems don’t believe they should rule like the republicans... that’s why they always end up being ruled by the republicans.

For dems to win, mindsets need to be changed.

You can also keep up this kind of BS fight so that we can ensure GOP will win again! Yeah! Hope everyone is happy now...

Long live the black democratic establishment. I do sincerely hope someday you guys end up in control of the DNC, I will vote for your black candidate. Not the white one pretending to be black.

[FaultyMario]

lol. That's almost billi asinine.

You're in no position to dish out judgement like that, TBH.


I'm no Biden apologist.

Yes, you are.

Point still stands. He is one of the most conservative Democrats, probably a nice guy, hence why most other candidates kept good relations with him throughout the campaign. But one thing must not be confused with the other.

He will likely lose to Trump, and in the event that he is elected president, he will probably (against popular opinion) appoint Republicans and non-party conservatives to his cabinet and to judicial positions.

[neanderthal]

Fantastic reading. (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-04-09/california-declares-independence-from-trump-s-coronavirus-plans?srnd=opinion)

Newsom is making headway towards the White House with his moves.

[FaultyMario]

Almost forgot, I only came in to shame conservatism (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/legal-sex-workers-denied-coronavirus-aid_n_5e86287ac5b6d302366ca912).

Puritanism has no place in the economy, none.

[neanderthal]

You're in no position to dish out judgement like that, TBH.



Yes, you are.

Point still stands. He is one of the most conservative Democrats, probably a nice guy, hence why most other candidates kept good relations with him throughout the campaign. But one thing must not be confused with the other.

He will likely lose to Trump, and in the event that he is elected president, he will probably (against popular opinion) appoint Republicans and non-party conservatives to his cabinet and to judicial positions.

I beg to differ.

[neanderthal]

Almost forgot, I only came in to shame conservatism (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/legal-sex-workers-denied-coronavirus-aid_n_5e86287ac5b6d302366ca912).

Puritanism has no place in the economy, none.

That's. fucked. up. :smh:

I briefly glanced at an article that stated sex workers in Mexico were being put to the street as hotels wouldn't take them in and, obviously, they had lost most of their clientelle. I wish I had read it in greater detail now.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Fantastic reading. (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-04-09/california-declares-independence-from-trump-s-coronavirus-plans?srnd=opinion)

Newsom is making headway towards the White House with his moves.

That’s very interesting indeed.

Dependency on a central/federal government is probably not a good idea for dealing with pandemics, especially if Trump is the president!

I think our governor has done a good job so far.

[Jason]

Going to disagree on moderates taking credit for passing bills a bit. Moderates are malleable when provided with enough support by the people, either progressives or conservatives, whatever. Progressives for example push the ideas early, and then slowly but surely people support an idea in larger numbers making it safer for moderates to latch on to and successfully push a bill through. Moderates weren't the first to support gay marriage for example, bit once support reached moderate levels there was enough power to legalize. Moderates weren't the first to push for Medicare for All, but will be the ones to pass it as they slowly but surely start to support it.

So yes, moderates are the ones to pass the bills, sure, but it's a bit disengenous to give them full credit for the ideas.

[FaultyMario]

:toast:

[FaultyMario]

I briefly glanced at an article that stated sex workers in Mexico were being put to the street as hotels wouldn't take them in and, obviously, they had lost most of their clientelle. I wish I had read it in greater detail now.

Don't know what my country has to do with the COVID stimulus bill discriminating against legitimate sex workers, but thanks for the heads up.

[neanderthal]

Going to disagree on moderates taking credit for passing bills a bit. Moderates are malleable when provided with enough support by the people, either progressives or conservatives, whatever. Progressives for example push the ideas early, and then slowly but surely people support an idea in larger numbers making it safer for moderates to latch on to and successfully push a bill through. Moderates weren't the first to support gay marriage for example, bit once support reached moderate levels there was enough power to legalize. Moderates weren't the first to push for Medicare for All, but will be the ones to pass it as they slowly but surely start to support it.

So yes, moderates are the ones to pass the bills, sure, but it's a bit disengenous to give them full credit for the ideas.

And I was careful to say that they passed the bills, and very careful not to say they germinated the ideas.

The important thing being; the passing of the bill is what gives people rights.

The importanter thing being, the conservatives are NEVER the one giving people rights by passing bills. So why fight/ mischaracterise/ slander those who are your natural allies? Stares in "progressives these days!"

edit; it should be noted that other people brought Bernies platform ideas to the fore before him; M4A, free college, etc. None at the (serious) presidential campaign level though.

[neanderthal]

Don't know what my country has to do with the COVID stimulus bill discriminating against legitimate sex workers, but thanks for the heads up.

It had nothing to do with the bill, but was an unintended and unfortunate consequence affecting sex workers. And the article you linked to referenced sex workers. That was the only connection.

Story. (https://www.yahoo.com/news/mexicos-prostitutes-end-homeless-coronavirus-134421543.html)

[neanderthal]

Stories like these (https://www.theroot.com/we-figured-out-why-coronavirus-is-killing-black-people-1842774532) make me so tired.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The importanter thing being, the conservatives are NEVER the one giving people rights by passing bills. So why fight/ mischaracterise/ slander those who are your natural allies? Stares in "progressives these days!"

I can't believe how stubborn you can be.

Jason has explained to you that the moderates never 'dare' to do anything unless it's safe for them to do.

Conservatives at least dare to do shit, whether it's slavery or build a wall or whatever stupid thing they can think of.

Moderates have no dreams and don't dare to do anything. They borrow progressives' dreams... and allow progressives to do all the grunt work to make this issues safe enough... and then the moderates pass the bill and take credit and then they look at progressives as pieces of shit useless dreamers who can't accomplish anything.

Don't you see the problem here? You think the progressives are your enemies, but in fact, it's the moderates that's pushing black people down.

Obama ran on progressive platform. He totally kicked Hillary's moderate's butt.

Unfortunately he turned around and became a moderate. The audacity to hope disappeared into playing safe.

Obamacare is a good start, but a lot of black people still don't have healthcare... and if they do have jobs, they're stuck with those 'essential' yet low paying jobs.

The black democratic establishment is not the same as the white democratic establishment. Bernie Sanders was not attacking the black one, but the white one. Moderates need the progressives... or else there'll be nothing 'safe enough' for you guys to pass. All you'll be left to do is to be ruled by the republicans.

Do you understand?

[neanderthal]

I can't believe how stubborn you can be.

Jason has explained to you that the moderates never 'dare' to do anything unless it's safe for them to do.

Conservatives at least dare to do shit, whether it's slavery or build a wall or whatever stupid thing they can think of.

Moderates have no dreams and don't dare to do anything. They borrow progressives' dreams... and allow progressives to do all the grunt work to make this issues safe enough... and then the moderates pass the bill and take credit and then they look at progressives as pieces of shit useless dreamers who can't accomplish anything.

Don't you see the problem here? You think the progressives are your enemies, but in fact, it's the moderates that's pushing black people down.

Obama ran on progressive platform. He totally kicked Hillary's moderate's butt.

Unfortunately he turned around and became a moderate.

Obamacare is a good start, but a lot of black people still don't have healthcare... and if they do have jobs, they're stuck with those 'essential' yet low paying jobs.

The black democratic establishment is not the same as the white democratic establishment. Bernie Sanders was not attacking the black one, but the white one. Moderates need the progressives... or else there'll be nothing 'safe enough' for you guys to pass. All you'll be left to do is to be ruled by the republicans.

Do you understand?

You're on ignore.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You must be on drugs if you still don’t understand what we’re talking about.

Like I said, if you wish to remain enemies, I’d be happy to play that role. I was going to vote Biden, if you wish to remain stubborn, I’ll stay home. Make your choice ! :p

[neanderthal]

I've managed to stay off twitter most of the day. I'm only on it right now to stay awake while charging my phone (I don't like to leave it on the charger. That's not good for the battery. And I only got it a couple of months ago.) Anyway, my TL is full of 3 things; South Africans, COVID, people saying the Berners want demand to be courted by Biden. It's literally person after person after person.

I think the most salient point was that if Bernie had any character he would stop Brie Brie (his director of comms and therefore his surrogate) from attacking the presumed nominee and other former candidates. Like i've said before, his failure to control/ distance himself from the worst elements of his followers demonstrates poor leadership.

[drew]

They're just going to fuck this up again.

[Jason]

And I was careful to say that they passed the bills, and very careful not to say they germinated the ideas.

The important thing being; the passing of the bill is what gives people rights.

The importanter thing being, the conservatives are NEVER the one giving people rights by passing bills. So why fight/ mischaracterise/ slander those who are your natural allies? Stares in "progressives these days!"

edit; it should be noted that other people brought Bernies platform ideas to the fore before him; M4A, free college, etc. None at the (serious) presidential campaign level though.

Those people would be considered “progressives” imo. I’ve not claimed that Bernie is responsible for all progressive ideas. Moderates tend want the status quo, and mostly take on “safe” ideas. Conservatives want to dial things back. Progressives want to move things forward. At least that’s my very general understanding of things.

I just think demonizing progressives for getting nothing done is a bit of a faulty argument, they seed the ideas, and are the foundation of building support. And I think demonizing moderates for not being aggressive enough is also problematic, because they end up being the ones who put plans into action after there’s widespread support.

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/o0hckz9tqwr41.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Man, where in the hell did you find these pics/memes? :p



I just think demonizing progressives for getting nothing done is a bit of a faulty argument, they seed the ideas, and are the foundation of building support. And I think demonizing moderates for not being aggressive enough is also problematic, because they end up being the ones who put plans into action after there’s widespread support.

I do believe everything should be fair games during primary election cycle... Hillary and Obama were going at each other quite viciously too. However, in the end, they came together. Of course I wish he remained more progressive than moderate. As people age, it's natural to become more and more conservative I guess. Sanders is really not normal.

Anyway, my point is we should not become so sensitive that we see any bit of criticism as demonizing and then decide to stop working together.

The main thing that moderates need to be careful is that they end up with "herd mentality" and begin to feel safe about doing the wrong thing. Such as Iraq war... and IMHO the impeachment. Well, I think Pelosi probably knew she didn't have solid evidences that'd get the job done but was forced into impeaching by popular opinions. With the Ukraine president saying nothing happened and an unspecified whistleblower, should that really be enough to remove a president? If you can't land a knockout punch, then you should NOT start that fight. Should've just start more investigations to gather more evidences and let this doubt linger in public's minds. Hillary got her emails... and Trump would've gotten his quid pro quo shit lingering over his head during the election.

Somebody like Sanders would not have chosen to waste time and resources on such matters. Nobody in the 'herd' likes him for good reasons.

Bottomline is that I think it should be fine to point out each others mistakes, but not to make them into demons, but for the purpose of helping each other learn from their mistakes. However, I think people end up holding grudges too easily... and often forget who their common enemy is.

Anyway, looking to the right, who's in charge more on the other side? The regressive or the pragmatic moderate republicans?

I honestly did not like both Hillary and Trump almost equally so I didn't want to cast my vote for them... but after seeing his accomplishments for 4 years, I'd definitely vote for the less evil Hillary. Nevertheless, my vote really won't matter either way.

You really don't need to convince me to do the right thing. We need to convince american voters to do the right thing. But 1st, we need the right candidate!

The consolation prize during this primary season was Bloomberg's $1Billion failed bid to buy the WH. Glad American people are not totally stupid..., but more work needs to be done to make americans think smarter in the future and the continual improvement of the primary process.

I do believe Bernie Sanders will probably be remembered in the history books as one of the most influential losers! ;)

[FaultyMario]

His failure to control/ distance himself from the worst elements of his followers demonstrates poor leadership.

But her emails, dude, her emails. I'd recommend you bust that myth before you get into a new one.

Alternatively, you could read up on people like Daniel Marans (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-campaign-retrospective-2020-democratic-primary_n_5e837ecfc5b603fbdf4a8782) who have a good understanding of political campaigning and has a take on Sanders' shortcomings that is much less vitriolic than the shit you spew on this forum.

[neanderthal]

But her emails, dude, her emails. I'd recommend you bust that myth before you get into a new one.

Alternatively, you could read up on people like Daniel Marans (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-campaign-retrospective-2020-democratic-primary_n_5e837ecfc5b603fbdf4a8782) who have a good understanding of political campaigning and has a take on Sanders' shortcomings that is much less vitriolic than the shit you spew on this forum.

Yeah, they were an insurmountable obstacle, all of them which we never ever saw. How I could possibly forget that, ... I don't know what's become of me. Mea culpa. Please, forgive me.

[neanderthal]

But her emails, dude, her emails. I'd recommend you bust that myth before you get into a new one.

Alternatively, you could read up on people like Daniel Marans (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-campaign-retrospective-2020-democratic-primary_n_5e837ecfc5b603fbdf4a8782) who have a good understanding of political campaigning and has a take on Sanders' shortcomings that is much less vitriolic than the shit you spew on this forum.

I'm reading the article you linked.

So far, what i've taken from it is that Bernard Sanders doesn't listen to anybody, including experts, or take advice from anybody very well. Which, to me, just says he'd be a shitty leader, much like Trump. I'm not surprised. :)


... in which they recommended that Sanders draw clearer contrasts with Biden. They wanted Sanders to bring it up in his opening statement in the debate, when he would be able to control the floor uninterrupted and set the tone for the night. ...
At the start of the debate, when ABC News anchor George Stephanopoulos turned to him for his opening statement, Sanders, appearing lost in thought, didn’t respond at first. It took a second prompt of “Senator Sanders” to get him to launch into his introductory remarks. Then, rather than take on Biden, Sanders delivered his usual denunciation of the shift toward an “oligarchic form of society where a handful of billionaires control the economic and political life of the country.”

It also says he doesn't learn from his mistakes


... Many of them requested anonymity to speak freely.

The answers they suggested are myriad. He failed to erect a campaign nimble enough to overcome the built-in challenges he was bound to face from a skeptical press corps and a hostile party establishment. He hung his electoral success on the relatively risky bet that he could both expand the electorate and do so in a way that would benefit him disproportionately. His staff feuded unnecessarily with Elizabeth Warren, and he failed to make inroads with older Black voters ― a repeat of 2016 dynamics.

It also says he doesn't think things through

Perhaps most significantly, Sanders failed to expand his core bloc of support into a coalition capable of winning a majority, and he did not adequately prepare for the prospect that moderates would consolidate behind Biden.

“There was a strategy to get to 30% and not to 50%,” one Sanders ally said.

Very Trump like. Also says he's uncompromising.

Many of these shortcomings go back to a defining feature of Bernie Sanders’ political career: He is going to do it his way or not at all.

This article is even more enlightening than you made it out to be. Here I was thinking there'd be a fair analysis of the fellow, unlike (the)
... much less vitriolic than the shit you spew on this forum and all it's done so far is confirm the "vitriolic shit" i've spewn on the form more than anything.

I'm sure the balance, the more measured side is coming up. Let me keep reading.

I'll keep you updated.

[Jason]

It's amusing that Billi equates Clinton/Biden and Trump, while supporting Sanders. And Mo equates Sanders and Trump while supporting Clinton/Biden.

It's almost as if the comparisons make no sense and have no logic.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neanderthal,

It's also fascinating that everything you read can be used to confirm your bias!

Do you really want a leader who'd listen to his advisors to attack Biden? It's like there's just no win for him. Bernie can attack Biden and be blamed... and he can not attack Biden and still be blamed. Whatever he does, you will be able to find a reason to blame him! ;)

Anyway, I personally agree with Sanders and disagrees with his advisors with regard to attacking Biden. The differentiation between the 2 is already pretty clear. Attacking Biden will only further enrage his supporters... just as it happened when the Bernie Bros attacked Biden. Bros thought they were helping, but it's clear that they hurt his campaign more.

As an independent, he will forever be viewed as an outsider. Party faithfuls would never go for him. Sanders only lucked out in 2016 because anti-establishment sentiment was stronger and Hillary's likeability was low.

In hindsight, Bernie is obviously no match, one on one against any other non-billionaire moderate. The only seasoned moderate is Biden and he doesn't have the same political baggages as Hillary.

Knowing what we know now, Bernie really should not have run 2020... and should just throw his weight behind Warren. Warren really had a good chance but she dropped the ball trying to please both the progressives and the moderates and end up pissing off both groups. If she were the ONLY democratic/progressive candidate, I think she could've beaten Biden. However, will Pocahontas be able to beat Trump? That's another story...

Anyway, this has been a freaking roller coaster primary season.

Yeah, the problem of being in the middle is that often times you're hated by both sides.

Sanders lost because birth rate has gone down... younger generation is currently no match the for boomers. But time will change that of course.

The next generation of coronavirus boomers are currently brewing... ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

It's amusing that Billi equates Clinton/Biden and Trump, while supporting Sanders. And Mo equates Sanders and Trump while supporting Clinton/Biden.

It's almost as if the comparisons make no sense and have no logic.

How do I equate Hillary/Biden and Trump?

For Sanders and Trump, their similarities are that they're both anti-establishment. However, I'm sure Neanderthal is not equating them. He is just extremely pro-establishment. However, Trump is a fake anti-establishment candidate... just as he is a fake conservative and a fake born again Christian. He could've ran on the democratic ticket if he thought it'd be easier for him to win as a liberal. Anyway, as far as I can understand, Neanderthal just doesn't like people near the extremes. Trump is now far right and Sanders is far left.

I personally prefer to go far left now because our nation has been leaning right for far too long. Even the moderate democrats are not doing enough to shift our nation back on a straight path.

[neanderthal]

Oh joy. There's more.

We've established he doesn't listen to experts, but now we see ... contempt?


was behind Sanders’ most memorable ads of the 2016 cycle, had some ideas on how Sanders could correct some of his weaknesses from last time around. Winning a larger share of the Black vote, most observers agreed, would be essential.

In a memo he drafted, Longabaugh recommended that Sanders demonstrate a commitment to that goal early on by kicking off his campaign with a high-profile speech on racial justice in Chicago. (He would end up delivering a kickoff speech there, but it did not focus exclusively on race.[/b]) He also suggested that Sanders court the leaders of major labor unions ― officials who had shunned him the first time, despite the depth of support for Sanders among their members.

In several subsequent conversations, Longabaugh even recommended he consider formally affiliating as a Democrat. [u]Sanders never seriously entertained the idea, according to a senior aide.

Contempt for the darkies, so he didn't bother to address their issues, as suggested. Couldn't ... stoop so low as to seek their votes. Contempt for the Democratic Party- he's too good to join it.

This
His departure created something of a vacuum in the campaign for experienced operatives unafraid to challenge the senator, regardless of the potential consequences. even suggests he's tyrannical. Trump like! lite. I meant lite. My bad.

This part doesn't sound good either.
“In 2016, Sanders had people who had a lot of experience in Democratic campaigns … he pushed them out and replaced them with people who had no experience running campaigns at any level,” said a Sanders supporter and senior official at a progressive organization. “Those people gained purchase with him because they were not people who would critique his impulses.”

It repeats that he's uncompromising.

Around the same time, in other public statements, Sanders appeared to be deliberately casting his agenda as radical. When a Biden aide said in May that the former vice president would seek a “middle ground” on climate change, which the campaign later disavowed, Sanders turned “no middle ground” into a battle cry in speeches and on social media.

He's tentative, hardly the characteristic you want to embody if you're leading a revolution, and slow to make decisions.


and is slow to make decisions, particularly when it comes to considering potential changes in his approach. It’s a tendency that would later be evident in his relatively drawn-out response this month to the COVID-19 outbreak. Biden incorporated fears of the pandemic into his critique of Trump in late January; Sanders began blasting Trump for his response to the crisis about a month later.

So, a quick recap; quick to blast the Democrats, slow to criticise Trump. I'm pretty sure that's typical of the "vitriolic shit" i've been known to spew on this forum.


It even suggests he's slow to act.


Likewise, Warren rolled out her first plan to address the crisis at the end of January, and second, more detailed one, at the beginning of March. But while Sanders convened a roundtable to discuss the topic on March 9, he did not unveil a comparable policy plan until March 17,

I'm getting a hint of a centralised power structure in this quote.


It did not help matters, according to people familiar with dynamics inside the office, that Shakir insisted on traveling frequently with Sanders, an unusual practice for a chief executive that left some staff grasping for instruction. Rabin-Havt, Shakir’s second-in-command, also accompanied Sanders on all of his travel. This resulted in some aides feeling that the campaign’s leadership was primarily occupied with maintaining their own influence and proximity to the senator rather than empowering and supporting the broader campaign.
I'm inferring from it that he prefers "yes" men to true decision makers, given the tyranny and not listening to advice I discussed earlier. But that's a bit of a reach, i'm sure.

I talked about his shitty surrogates!!!
Briahna Gray, a national press secretary for Sanders who joined the campaign after a career in law and a brief stint in journalism, spent many days tangling with his antagonists on Twitter, including a number of media figures. In one string of late September tweets ripping the Warren campaign, she appeared to back the campaign into a position of publicly blessing a newly contentious stance toward Warren that the campaign never followed through on. I said that!!!

So far i'd say this article isn't working out the way I think you thought it would. :lol:

I'm gonna take a break. Its a looong article and i've been called to come and eat.

More later!

[neanderthal]

It's amusing that Billi equates Clinton/Biden and Trump, while supporting Sanders. And Mo equates Sanders and Trump while supporting Clinton/Biden.

It's almost as if the comparisons make no sense and have no logic.

It is quite amusing. And quite irrational, I don't deny it, but then again, i'm quoting from someone who's supposed to have a better opinion of Sanders than me.

I have no problems with his ideas. Him, the man, eish ...

[neanderthal]

How do I equate Hillary/Biden and Trump?

For Sanders and Trump, their similarities are that they're both anti-establishment. However, I'm sure Neanderthal is not equating them. He is just extremely pro-establishment. However, Trump is a fake anti-establishment candidate... just as he is a fake conservative and a fake born again Christian. He could've ran on the democratic ticket if he thought it'd be easier for him to win as a liberal. Anyway, as far as I can understand, Neanderthal just doesn't like people near the extremes. Trump is now far right and Sanders is far left.

I personally prefer to go far left now because our nation has been leaning right for far too long. Even the moderate democrats are not doing enough to shift our nation back on a straight path.

Oh, I fucking AM. Don't mischaracterise my thoughts on him.

I like his ideas. I Do NOT like the man.

Read the article for yourself.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Sorry, didn't really mean to speak for you, and I understand how your hatred for both men might be equal.

Using that 'logic', hope it now makes more sense for Jason why I 'equate' Hillary and Trump. I disliked them both for different reasons of course, but the negative emotions were indeed equally bad for me at least... However, I've said I wouldn't mind voting for Biden this time... so my hatred for Biden is clearly not equal to hatred for Hillary or perhaps my hatred for Trump has increased... ;)

I guess when such emotions are involved, it kinda makes debates pointless? Debates won't change how people feel... and our decisions are often made thru our emotions...

[neanderthal]

I'm back.

More surrogates being shitty.

Turner also sometimes initiated assaults on Sanders’ rivals that the candidate himself had not yet engaged in.
Did I mention that his failure to curb their actions meant he's a shitty leader. I'm pretty sure I did.

More shitty surrogates. A twofer!

And Sirota, a journalist with Capitol Hill and campaign experience, launched a Sanders campaign newsletter “Bern Notice” that offered a disclaimer that the newsletter reflected his views and not those of the campaign. He was still admonished for using the newsletter to promote a January op-ed by Sanders-backing law professor Zephyr Teachout on Biden’s “corruption problem.”

Then, it suggests he's inept.

The disarray beneath Sanders ― whether on the communications side, or elsewhere ― might have been less harmful if Sanders himself had a sharper grasp of the tools it took to make a campaign succeed.

Stingy.

But at times, he appeared to be penny wise and pound foolish. He was known to complain to aides about the number of advance staffers it took to erect his events, wondering why it was necessary to employ so many people just to put on rallies.

I reinforces slow to act again.


At the same time, Sanders was slow to staff up in Iowa, allowing Warren and Buttigieg with fewer funds to erect a more sophisticated field operation earlier in those states. He finally agreed in October to unlock funding to hire more staff, air TV ads and spend on other campaign priorities.

A poor manager. Hows he going to run a country like this?

But after the flood gates opened, Shakir did not keep a close eye on the budget, according to multiple aides. When Shakir realized in mid-December that the campaign was burning through money too rapidly, he admonished senior staff to significantly scale back travel and other expenses in the hundreds of dollars.

Ouch!
Generally speaking, only presidential campaigns struggling to fundraise burn that kind of cash before January in order to raise still more money, No highlighting needed. Just piss poor mangement.

We been knew. We told y'all.

Democratic voters immediately began telling pollsters that Sanders’ age and health were a source of concern.

Nobody likes him.

There was reason to worry: Nearly 100 of the superdelegates explicitly told reporters they would stop Sanders if he arrived without an outright majority.

I already said he didn't think things through.

But the talk of a brokered convention spoke to a flaw in Sanders’ underlying strategy that the campaign never effectively confronted: Their coalition was considerably smaller than in 2016 and would not be able to withstand a sudden consolidation among moderate voters.

Avoids reality

Of course, Sanders’ professed theory of the case did not require him to muse about how he might reach voters outside his demographic and ideological comfort zones.

But engages in fantasy


“The mythical voter that stayed home, but if you just give them a progressive candidate, they’ll show up ― it’s a lot like the tooth fairy, you hear about it a lot, but you never see it,” Mikus said.

Didn't read the room


But at the very least, Sanders publicly billed himself as the candidate most capable of juicing turnout. It doubled as an electability pitch for a November showdown with Trump: that Sanders alone is capable of generating the increased turnout among infrequent voters needed to ensure a general election victory.

It also justified the campaign’s apparent view that there were few if any left-wing policies it could adopt that would undermine Sanders’ success at the ballot box.

Engages in fantasy like I said.

“It’s a comforting way to think about politics because that way, you don’t have to compromise,”

H didn't read the room.

As a result, even when Sanders would win an early state, he suffered from critical coverage of his failure to increase turnout, implicitly undermining the unconventional case for his electability.

Overall turnout barely went up in Iowa. In New Hampshire, where Republicans and independents can vote in the Democratic primary, Sanders’ moderate rivals did better among first-time voters.

The writing was on the wall. He didn't try to bring in new voters, he didn't try to change his message, he never bothered with outreach to the African American community. He didn't read the room.

At the same time, turnout among the largely white, upper-middle-class suburbanites who powered Democrats’ takeover of the House in 2018 surged. Their impact was most apparent in South Carolina and the Super Tuesday states where those voters turned out in great numbers and broke decisively for Biden.

He kept not reading the room.


Sanders’ bet that he could either reassemble his 2016 coalition or expand the electorate reflected an overly generous interpretation of his strong performance in 2016, according to Tenoch Flores, a former California Democratic Party spokesman who donated to Warren’s campaign.

“They walked away with the erroneous conclusion that their support was much wider than it was,” Flores said. In 2016, “there was a sizable anti-Hillary vote mixed in with his core supporters.”

Nobody liked him then


When Sanders ran for president in 2016, he won just three endorsements from Democratic colleagues in Congress: Sen. Jeff Merkley of Oregon, Arizona Rep. Raúl Grijalva, then-Ohio Rep. Marcy Kaptur and then-Minnesota Rep. Keith Ellison.

And five years later, no one likes him now.

By September, though, that figure had not risen. Later that month, notwithstanding Mejia’s professional connections, Sanders lost the contest for the national Working Families Party’s endorsement to Warren.

Dismissive of groups whose support he needed to solicit.

Unlike Warren or former housing secretary Julián Castro, Sanders did not take the progressive group up on the opportunity to address the WFP’s key decision-makers in a private audience.

This kinda confirms that.

A pro-Sanders progressive activist described feeling as though the Sanders campaign felt entitled to the support of left-leaning groups and as a result, did not treat activists as respectfully as Warren’s campaign. The campaign sought organizations’ input on multiple policy proposals just a day or two before their rollout, providing little time for input, and did not answer emails from activists on multiple occasions.

They saw through him.

But as wins in the first three states propelled Sanders’ campaign forward, the pace of his endorsements ― and the credibility they confer ― did not accelerate at the same rate.

Yes sir they did. Either that or he didn't court them like I said earlier. Or they didn't trust him.

Given Sanders’ big win in Nevada on the back of his strong support among Latinos, it was particularly surprising that he didn’t subsequently pick up more endorsements from Latino lawmakers. Of the 38 members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, just two ― Ocasio-Cortez and Rep. Jesús “Chuy” García of Illinois ― would end up endorsing Sanders.

Lost support from previous endorsers. Hmm, I wonder why ...

Other would-be validators never came around. Grijalva endorsed Warren in August. [Merkley, Sanders’ first backer in the Senate in 2016, has still not expressed a preference in the primary.

One could construe that he thinks we're beneath him. It could just be his personality.

A major part of Sanders’ endorsement troubles stemmed from his own aversion to interpersonal politicking. By his own admission, he is “not good at backslapping” or “pleasantries” ― the kind of “bullshit,” as he put it, that typically helps lawmakers develop working relationships with one another and with other influential people.

No outreach to African Americans

Joe Darby, a prominent Charleston pastor who endorsed Biden in December, said he had met or received calls from Biden, Warren, Buttigieg and Sens. Cory Booker of New Jersey and Kamala Harris of California, but not Sanders.

Is he supercilious?

Even when it came to Ocasio-Cortez, his biggest endorsement of the cycle, Sanders almost did not do the work needed to win her backing. While Warren had courted her incessantly, Ocasio-Cortez’s aides needed to ask Sanders’ team to have him call her to seek her support.

Bad at maintaining relationships. Nota bene; she's African American.

Sanders wound up squandering opportunities for other potential pickups as well. In Virginia, a Super Tuesday state where Biden ended up winning by 30 percentage points, the Sanders campaign failed to reach out to state Del. Marcia “Cia” Price, a young Black woman and the only state lawmaker to endorse Sanders in 2016. Price did not endorse in the 2020 race.

I'm tired of this article reinforcing things I already thought about him and not shedding any light on him that I hadn't been aware of.

I'm stopping here. You can't accuse me of not reading it. I have, up to here. I've quoted it numerous times and even showed how it more closely aligns with my thinking.

Up to here nothing it said cast new light on him. It just reinforced what I said. Which was "vitriolic."

Thanks for solidifying what I thought about him.

[neanderthal]

Fuck Trump. Fuck Bernie.

You can't say I didn't back my thoughts on him.

[neanderthal]

Good thread on M4A.
https://twitter.com/oldladydem/status/1248658558088028160?s=19

[neanderthal]

And this article reminds me a lot of the arrogance of American auto makers in the past.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/9/21197162/boeing-737-max-software-hardware-computer-fcc-crash

[neanderthal]

Good article on the resignation of a supreme court "bar" judge.

An excoriation of the current supreme court, one of those things that at stake in the next presidential election.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/judge-james-dannenberg-supreme-court-bar-roberts-letter.html

[neanderthal]

Good article on the resignation of a supreme court "bar" judge.

An excoriation of the current supreme court, one of those things that at stake in the next presidential election.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/judge-james-dannenberg-supreme-court-bar-roberts-letter.html

[neanderthal]

It's pretty cool, and quite fucking terrifying, that they can do this.
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-04-10/apple-google-bring-covid-19-contact-tracing-to-3-billion-people#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

[neanderthal]

On one hand, I strike up a conversation with someone who turns out to be a terrorist, or something, and next thing I'm being held in Guantanamo. (That's the next step, better believe that!) I could be just sitting at the table adjacent to them at McDonald's or something.

On the other, they can tell me that someone I was in close proximity to had COVID and I should get checked out.

I can't imagine how it would work for a crowded New York subway train.

[Yw-slayer]

Meanwhile, there is a BBC article on some pizza place in Chicago baking masks for healthcare workers. Which of course ignores the massive PPE sourcing failures in the US over the past 2 months.

If there were a similar article on a dumpling restaurant in China doing the same with their ovens, certain English-speaking (in a fashion) parts of the internet would be full of cries of outrage that this is just "CCP wumao feel-good propaganda to cover up for all of the sins of the evil regime and their failures etc. etc. etc.".

:lol:

[neanderthal]

Meanwhile, there is a BBC article on some pizza place in Chicago baking masks for healthcare workers. Which of course ignores the massive PPE sourcing failures in the US over the past 2 months.

If there were a similar article on a dumpling restaurant in China doing the same with their ovens, certain English-speaking (in a fashion) parts of the internet would be full of cries of outrage that this is just "CCP wumao feel-good propaganda to cover up for all of the sins of the evil regime and their failures etc. etc. etc.".

:lol:

Indeed.

But baking masks? Like, from pizza dough?

[Yw-slayer]

BBC News - Coronavirus: I'm using my pizza oven to toss masks for nurses
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52232381

After consulting with a couple of his engineer friends and procuring large sheets of acrylic, Syrkin-Nikolau and his staff have started making face shields for healthcare workers. The industrial pizza oven heats the acrylic up until it's soft enough to bend into the right shape, and then it is attached to a foam strip and straps.

Apparently.

[Yw-slayer]

And of course parts of the Internet are still arguing about mask v anti-mask, and other parts are trying to figure out whether Pangolin-3372.XVa.Beta5 infected Bat-00934.LXVn.Alpha6, or vice versa.

[FaultyMario]

My friend, who is really into 3d printing, made a couple hundred acrylic masks for municipal workers in his Ille-de-France suburb. The mayor gave him the sheets and he printed the frames and bonded it all together. He even made the local news.

[neanderthal]

BBC News - Coronavirus: I'm using my pizza oven to toss masks for nurses
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52232381

After consulting with a couple of his engineer friends and procuring large sheets of acrylic, Syrkin-Nikolau and his staff have started making face shields for healthcare workers. The industrial pizza oven heats the acrylic up until it's soft enough to bend into the right shape, and then it is attached to a foam strip and straps.

Apparently.

That's pretty cool.

I read elsewhere a while ago about a doctor who was also an engineer who had re engineered the lone ventilator at the hospital he worked at, to be able to support nine patients at a time.

I wondered why that wasn't just done to most of the ventilators we have.

The video of an Astralian nurse critiquing a Tesla ventilator was quite revealing. I'ts not just air in and air out. It's a small volume, that is or isn't medicated, and has been heated and had a smidge of condensation added. Pretty cool.

[neanderthal]

Will banks pay dividends after getting a financial shot in the arm from the public (vis the Fed and the treasury?) Engage in buybacks? Excessive executive compensation?

I think they still will, because Trump.

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/492215-fed-support-of-us-banks-stop-the-dividend-madness

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/492215-fed-support-of-us-banks-stop-the-dividend-madness

[neanderthal]

So, it's been a few days already. Bernie *said* he would support the eventual Democratic nominee.

Why hasn't he endorsed Biden?

When Pete, Liz*, Amy dropped out, they immediately endorsed. What's he waiting for?

I think I know.

He's a .... (Insert invective if your choice here.)

edit: actually, Liz hasn't either, now that I think about it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Pete and Amy specifically dropped out to endorse Biden. To not endorse right away would defeat the whole purpose.

Liz also pulled a NYT double endorsement on SNL for both of them handsome young men!

Sanders endorsed Hillary. So it’s only a matter of time before he endorses his good buddy. Hold your horsies man!

[neanderthal]

3533

Appropo

[MR2 Fan]

My friend, who is really into 3d printing, made a couple hundred acrylic masks for municipal workers in his Ille-de-France suburb. The mayor gave him the sheets and he printed the frames and bonded it all together. He even made the local news.

Yes, there's a HUGE movement of 3D printer owners printing mask frames....there's been tens of thousands printed all over the world. I've printed some myself

[Jason]

So, it's been a few days already. Bernie *said* he would support the eventual Democratic nominee.

Why hasn't he endorsed Biden?

When Pete, Liz*, Amy dropped out, they immediately endorsed. What's he waiting for?

I think I know.

He's a .... (Insert invective if your choice here.)

edit: actually, Liz hasn't either, now that I think about it.

Pretty sure the progressive candidates have been working behind the scenes with Biden to push him as far left as possible before they throw their weight behind him. It’s pretty normal behavior when there’s differences as “drastic” as this between candidates imo. And we’re still a long ways out from the general, plus there’s a whole ass pandemic happening.

Not everything is some major black flag/conspiracy, you know this Mo. Come on.

[MR2 Fan]

Pretty sure the progressive candidates have been working behind the scenes with Biden to push him as far left as possible before they throw their weight behind him. It’s pretty normal behavior when there’s differences as “drastic” as this between candidates imo. And we’re still a long ways out from the general, plus there’s a whole ass pandemic happening.

Not everything is some major black flag/conspiracy, you know this Mo. Come on.

Agreed and I think it's important, because going left will only help him gain more voters if he pushes for more healthcare and improved income....there's no more PERFECT time to campaign on this due to this pandemic.

[neanderthal]

The left really doesn't seem interested in fighting our common actual enemy of progressivism: the Republicans. Maybe I'm the only one seeing that.

Anyway, here's an article stating that they're helping Trump.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/11/trumps-most-devastating-weapon-will-be-bernie-bros-insiders/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[Crazed_Insanity]

I never paid much attention until RWA pointed out to me that NYP is actually super right wing!

With the name NY on it, at least I was fooled to believe it’s a liberal publication before...

Anyway, the point is that it’s their job to stir up shit between and moderates and the progressives so that Trump can win.

Fall into their trap and continue to hate the progressives bros... trump will e laughing all the way back to the WH.

[MR2 Fan]

The New York Post is currently owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp....nuff said

[Jason]

Yeah, I think that tells me all I need to know about these talking points.

This has been "fun", but I think I'll leave it to Mo and Billi.

[neanderthal]

The New York Post is currently owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp....nuff said

Did not know that.

I'l have to reassess what I read from there and the opinions of those recommending it. (I read everything that's recommended to me. I prefer to have an informed opinion.)

[Crazed_Insanity]

These algorithms usually recommend you stuff you like to read. To stay truly informed, you have to venture into territories that you might find annoying...

Like I do appreciate how you often times inform me of stuff I don’t know! ;)

Hope I’m doing the same to you!

Truly appreciate your help Jason, I know how fucking moronic we might be appearing to you! :p

Anyway, moral of the story is that moderates and progressives need work better together somehow. This bickering will only benefit future trumps.

[neanderthal]

Go Northam go.

https://wjla.com/news/local/northam-signs-new-legislation-to-expand-access-to-voting-in-virginia

He's a centrist "establishment" Democrat if you must know.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That’s excellent! I’m sure no progressives would be against such legislation.

Fixing such voter suppressive laws from the conservatives is definitely a great start. To continue to make further progress would be to passing legislations that can keep the rich from suppressing congress’s ability to truly represent the will of the people. Looking forward to the day a future moderate establishment politician getting that done! I will definitely applaud that politician as I am applauding Northam.

Moderate democrats are not my enemies. I know that. My true enemies are the ones trying to buy them to do their will.

[neanderthal]

could've fooled me

[Crazed_Insanity]

could've fooled me

I’m not NY Post, pretending to fake going left and then actually go right. I hated Hillary like you hate Sanders. However, I think it’s safe for us to agree that we both don’t want trump!

[Rikadyn]

Go Northam go.

https://wjla.com/news/local/northam-signs-new-legislation-to-expand-access-to-voting-in-virginia

He's a centrist "establishment" Democrat if you must know.

and a fan of blackface.

[neanderthal]

A good series of tweets on the heroification of "essential workers"

https://twitter.com/TrulyTafakari/status/1249371113609662465?s=19

[neanderthal]

and a fan of blackface.

And 87% of African Americans voted for him.

Practical. voters.

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-response.html


He Could Have Seen What Was Coming: Behind Trump’s Failure on the Virus
An examination reveals the president was warned about the potential for a pandemic but that internal divisions, lack of planning and his faith in his own instincts led to a halting response.

[FaultyMario]

#NeverBiden

No, but that's not coming from college-aged, socialist-minded white males. No.


No, no, no.


Trump’s re-election campaign, its authorized joint fundraising committees, and the RNC raised over $212 million in the first quarter of 2020, and have over $240 million cash on hand per the Trump campaign.

Thanks, Obama!

[Crazed_Insanity]

#NeverBiden

No, but that's not coming from college-aged, socialist-minded white males. No.


No, no, no.



Thanks, Obama!

What do you mean by this?

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://apple.news/ANc8yoxVkSUmQM7HmgUfKuw

“How China is losing the world’s trust following its cover-up of the coronavirus crisis”

Opinion piece by: Chi Wang, a former head of the Chinese section of the US Library of Congress, is president of the US-China Policy Foundation.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The moment Neanderthal is looking for, sanders endorsing Biden!

https://apple.news/AJxDA09k8RUGMIJ3KyI78uA

[neanderthal]

What do you mean by this?

There was a Green New Deal, Harvard College group, Socialists of America, and some other psuedo left groups that all posted "never Biden" today on twitter.

Good. We won't bother trying to court your votes.

[neanderthal]

The moment Neanderthal is looking for, sanders endorsing Biden!

https://apple.news/AJxDA09k8RUGMIJ3KyI78uA

No. Jason said to wait a few days, I can wait.

I'm waiting on him to denounce the actions of his surrogates. Brie brie in particular has been quite nasty on the twitterwebs.

[Jason]

Just chiming in to say I'm optimistic about the partnership Biden and Sanders have announced, and I'm glad Sanders has endorsed.

Moderate large tent + some progressive policies = best possible outcome imo

[FaultyMario]

Moderate large tent + some progressive movement = best possible outcome imo

That's what she said.

[Crazed_Insanity]

We'll just have to continue to wait and see...

At least I personally like Biden more than Hillary... also considering Trump is now a known entity, I’m certainly more inclined to vote for Biden now. However, if Neanderthal insists that I should stay home, I can stay home.

One thing I personally like about trump or the republicans is that they’re friendlier to Taiwan and more anti CCP.

It was Carter who broke ties with Taiwan and established ties with the CCP. Can’t blame the US for eventually recognize the bigger China, but even as a kid, I remembered feeling of fear and abandonment. I thought the tienanmen square massacre would finally help set China free in 1989, but nope. The world would end up forgetting that and Bill Clinton pretty much help pave the way for China to become what she is today...

Remains to be seen if the world will once again forget after this pandemic and continue to believe its good business to do business with the CCP.

Remember, even before this pandemic, Trading was not balanced and China was gaining advantages every step of the way... yes, we were able to buy cheap t shirts and affordable iPhones, but at what cost?

[Rare White Ape]

Here’s the best 8 minutes of your day.


https://youtu.be/PBQGRsF9MXw

[neanderthal]

"intellectually vacant..."

Brilliant!

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivahwittenbergcox/2020/04/13/what-do-countries-with-the-best-coronavirus-reponses-have-in-common-women-leaders/#558bde3f3dec

Makes me wish Hillary were actually our president...

I’m sure she would’ve handled this pandemic better than Trump!

[Rikadyn]

https://i.imgur.com/nK0XPP1.jpg

[neanderthal]

So, ... Trump et al, are using their emergency powers, to stop states from, continuing the emergency measures.

Make it make sense.

[neanderthal]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivahwittenbergcox/2020/04/13/what-do-countries-with-the-best-coronavirus-reponses-have-in-common-women-leaders/#558bde3f3dec

Makes me wish Hillary were actually our president...

I’m sure she would’ve handled this pandemic better than Trump!

I'm the last thing standing between you and the apocalypse" (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/16/magazine/hillary-clinton-campaign-final-weeks.html)

You coulda had a bad bitch, but her emails or what ever.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, point is that maybe we should be more sexist about picking leaders... females apparently does way better at protecting their nests than their male counterparts when pandemic hits.

[Jason]

Obama is set to endorse Biden, so that manufactured drama can be dropped now too. Just need Warren to endorse and we can find something else to get enraged about.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The next, and hopefully final, thing to get enraged about would be whether if Biden will crush or be crushed by the Me Too movement...

I guess that would be the main reason why Warren has hesitated to endorse either one of those old men?

[FaultyMario]

When is that going to happen? The sexual assault accusations are gaining steam and I don't think Barry "I've got a legacy to protect" Obama will raise Biden's arm as long as those are lingering around.

[neanderthal]

Saw a small quip referencing Trump as King Joffrey Baratheon, (https://www.theroot.com/governors-ban-together-to-defeat-king-donald-trump-1842859763) and my day is made. I haven't even read the article yet.

[Crazed_Insanity]

When is that going to happen? The sexual assault accusations are gaining steam and I don't think Barry "I've got a legacy to protect" Obama will raise Biden's arm as long as those are lingering around.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/politics/obama-endorses-biden/index.html

If Brett can become Supreme Court Justice if senators confirmed him, then I think Biden should be able to be the next president if he could win the electoral votes.

Sorry Me Too Movement!

There was a sort of hypocrisy going on with the leftist media though... they reported the accusers of Bret differently than they did with Joe. The news article titles and the timing of the articles themselves along with the explanations... hey, Trump is worse... all made me want to not vote for Joe...

However, in all honesty, Joe was a dinosaur of the past. His touchy feely way is definitely out of fashion, but I really find it hard to believe he would only assault one girl over his pretty successful career. If he really is another Bill Clinton, there really ought to be more accusers coming forward by now... or dug up by the conservative news outlet.

If Biden really assaulted you Ms. Reade, I'm genuinely sorry for not believing you or dismissing you... unless we get one of them governors to kick Trump's ass, Biden is really our only and last hope. :(

You let this go decades ago... perhaps you should just continue to let it go?

Note to Biden, make sure there will be no female staffers around President Biden... or make the pledge to never work with another female alone in a room... not even sharing an elevator alone with another female! Just stop touching people particularly after this pandemic for the sake of trying to make america normal again...

[neanderthal]

When is that going to happen? The sexual assault accusations are gaining steam and I don't think Barry "I've got a legacy to protect" Obama will raise Biden's arm as long as those are lingering around.

President "I have a legacy to protect" will go down as one of the least controversial US presidents, bookended by a complete moron before him, and an utter idiot (brought to power by a complete decapitulation from the media of the probity of delivering news as actual news, and white resentment (70% M, 53%F) of a successful, charming black man running the country) trying to out moron the moron who was president before the black man.

We saw him inherit many and much of a mess, navigate his way through it with grace, compassion and competence, all get excoriated at every turn by a public that ignored and celebrated the Congress' abject failure to do their jobs, while perpetuating the made up contrivances of a recalcitrant media and body politic. His entire presidency was beleaguered with indecent falsehoods directed at him or his administration, made up scandals concocted and disseminated by right wing media, trolls, and chaos agents alike, and all through it he did his job as steadfastly, competently and deliberately.
And even after he implored the public to ignore the media trolls, to beware of foreign malfeasance in the elections, and go vote for a woman the media derisively labelled "overprepared" (what the actual fuck? How is prepared, much less ... "over prepared" for probably the greatest responsibility in the world, a deficit? In what world does that begin to even make sense? Given the ... you know what, that's it's own rant, don't get me fucking started.) then exited stage left with grace, you're still trying to find reason to insult him? By insinuating that he's small minded and .... selfish. He's retired from public life. Leave him be.

We never deserved President Barrack Hussein Obama.

Where's this energy, by the way, for the actual doers of harm? Trump the serial sexual assaulter and rapist? Kavanaugh? Et al? The enablers of these men?

And by the time i finished my screed President Obama had dashed your expectations.

[FaultyMario]

How did he manage to dim his rising star in the early 80s?, Personal misconduct or conflicts of interests?

[Crazed_Insanity]

How did he manage to dim his rising star in the early 80s?, Personal misconduct or conflicts of interests?

You asking me?

I was not aware of any sexual misconduct.

He was a babbling idiot when he was young so it's certainly not dementia now that he's babbling like an idiot sometimes when older! :p I think that's probably the main thing that kept tripping him up.

The other main scandal that I was aware of was plagiarism...

Anyway, what are you trying to say? Can you just say it?

[Jason]

On Biden and MeToo. Time’s Up (About ( https://nwlc.org/about/)) listened to her story and decided not to touch it. NY Times investigated it, and found the accusations to be shaky.

Does this mean Biden has never been inappropriate? Nope. Should we take him out back and shoot him because of this sketchy pro Russia accusation? Probably not.

#metoo #believewomen etc is not about blindly believing everything every woman has to say, it’s about taking what they have to say seriously and listening. People have been listening to Reade, taking it seriously, investigating the claims, and not backing her story.

[FaultyMario]

Anyway, what are you trying to say? Can you just say it?

I'm just trying to say that the guy has, for a long time, been a contender to the presidency, but I don't know why it took him this long to have a concrete shot at it. Normally when an "it-girl" politician fails to live to her full potential, it is because of conflicting interests among her power supporters (basically she double-crossed someone who'd given her career impulse) or it is because she has repeated instances of people coming to her rescue because she can't stop doing shit she shouldn't do.

Look at career politicians who stay a long time at the top: they're disciplined and they don't make promises (to their benefactors, obvs) that they can't keep, plus they're effective at brokering deals (i.e. the McCains and the Pelosis of the world). Long-run, middle-of-the-road politicos just aren't as effective while still not being a liability to their elders.

So my question is, how did rising star young Biden go from the top to the middle?

Because his comeback took decades of duly carrying out his duties.

[Leon]

Have to say, the Obama endorsement of Biden I read on FB this morning has some epic epic epic throwing of the shade.

[invisible hat tip].

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm just trying to say that the guy has, for a long time, been a contender to the presidency, but I don't know why it took him this long to have a concrete shot at it. Normally when an "it-girl" politician fails to live to her full potential, it is because of conflicting interests among her power supporters (basically she double-crossed someone who'd given her career impulse) or it is because she has repeated instances of people coming to her rescue because she can't stop doing shit she shouldn't do.

Look at career politicians who stay a long time at the top: they're disciplined and they don't make promises (to their benefactors, obvs) that they can't keep, plus they're effective at brokering deals (i.e. the McCains and the Pelosis of the world). Long-run, middle-of-the-road politicos just aren't as effective while still not being a liability to their elders.

So my question is, how did rising star young Biden go from the top to the middle?

Because his comeback took decades of duly carrying out his duties.

Yes, I can agree to that.

However, what would be the convincing reason for not voting Biden or going 3rd party or just stay home though?

[FaultyMario]

The only reason would be if a viable third candidate came up in either of the two major parties in the coming weeks. For arguments sake, let's draw a line at Memorial Day, and it would have to be something pretty drastic.

[Rikadyn]

https://i.imgur.com/ipquvsu.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

Joking aside... who knows, scientists just might have to end up using vaccines or treatments that works with the virus... a lot of viral infections have no cures, but we could try to suppress it... or work with it so that it won't flair up! :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

The only reason would be if a viable third candidate came up in either of the two major parties in the coming weeks. For arguments sake, let's draw a line at Memorial Day, and it would have to be something pretty drastic.

I’m definitely opened to voting for someone better than Biden, but there has to be a realistic alternative candidate though. Rather than holding out til Memorial Day, I do like that Sanders and Biden are already working together to find common ground! ;)

[neanderthal]

"To put them in perspective, I think of being on an airplane. The flight attendant comes down the aisle with the food cart and, eventually, parks it besides you. "Can I interest you in the chicken" they ask,"or would you prefer the platter of shit with bits of broken glass in it?"

To be undecided in this election is to pause for a moment and then ask how the chicken was cooked," David Sedaris.

[Jason]

Elizabeth Warren has endorsed Joe Biden.

[Jason]

The only reason would be if a viable third candidate came up in either of the two major parties in the coming weeks. For arguments sake, let's draw a line at Memorial Day, and it would have to be something pretty drastic.

Trump has an approval rating of 90% among Republicans. A “serious” third party candidate would be absolutely catastrophic for Democrats. Doesn’t matter who the candidate is, Republicans aren’t moving away from Trump, so that person would only siphon votes away from Biden.

[Rikadyn]

https://i.imgur.com/VvPlLag.png

[Crazed_Insanity]

Trump has an approval rating of 90% among Republicans. A “serious” third party candidate would be absolutely catastrophic for Democrats. Doesn’t matter who the candidate is, Republicans aren’t moving away from Trump, so that person would only siphon votes away from Biden.

Just looked into gallup poll...

https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

There are currently only 30% registered Republicans, 30% registered Democrats and 36% independents!!! Current congressional party affiliation clearly does NOT reflect the voting population!

Even if 100% republicans approve of Trump that's only 30% of the people!!! Current approval rating for Trump is like 44% or something. So that sounds about right...

It's really sad the 36% of the independent population are being hi-jacked by the 2 minority groups! :p

In 2024, we really need to be more serious about coming up with a major 3rd party rather than just allowing ourselves to be catastrophically being pulled to either the right or the moderate side.

Figure out what 36% of those independents have in common, then we'll be able to finally stop the 2 party system.

Bernie Sanders ain't gonna be president any time soon, but it'd be nice if somebody like him could start the 3rd major party thing going... you can't just spool something like this up right before 2024... hopefully he could pave the way soon after 2020. Some sort of Bernie, AOC, Andrew coalition of some sort. If they don't collaborate, the independents will always be at the mercies of the 2 "minor" parties.

[FaultyMario]

Trump has an approval rating of 90% among Republicans. A “serious” third party candidate would be absolutely catastrophic for Democrats. Doesn’t matter who the candidate is, Republicans aren’t moving away from Trump, so that person would only siphon votes away from Biden.

Never did I say third party.

Question: Why shouldn't one vote for Biden?
Answer: Because either him or Trump are drastically compromised.

[neanderthal]

Never did I say third party.

Question: Why shouldn't one vote for Biden?
Answer: Because either him or Trump are drastically compromised.

Anyone comparing equating Trump and Biden loses credibility. That's it. That's the "tweet."

There is no way on this earth, where little brown babies are being held in cages, that the question of Biden over Trump should even be valid question.

Lets not bring up Hurricane Maria.

Trump vs used piece of toilet paper, used condom, used tampon should be an automatic vote for any of the latter. That's how terrible he is. Only those who are far removed from the atrocity of Trump's administration have the luxury of peering quizzically at Biden.

Biden could pick Voldemort as his running mate and still be better than Trump.

[Tom Servo]

I gotta go with neanderthal on this one. Garcetti and Newsom are both dipshits and still are handling this whole crisis way, way better than Trump. If this crisis hasn't laid bare the fact that even a corrupt monster who can at least handle the job is better than the utter buffoon we have in there now, I dunno what will.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I can’t agree with Neanderthal at all!

Biden is not a piece of used TP or condom! :p

[FaultyMario]

Biden could pick Voldemort as his running mate and still be better than Trump.

Nope, that's how you end up with Trump.

Obama's platitudes for the poor and big fat subsidies for the rich is the antecedent of Trump. We'd do bad to forget that. History is not a luxury.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You're right, but not entirely. Neanderthal is kinda right too, but of course also not entirely.

I think looking back at most liberal primary voters... a LOT of them actually agreed and liked Bernie's ideas, but for various reasons chosen Biden still.

I suspect people are just afraid to dream..., and just want normalcy back.

So I think Neanderthal isn't wrong by saying any tom dick or stanley could be better than trump.

However, you are also not wrong if Biden were to do a repeat of Obama...

Hopefully Biden won't repeat the same mistake made by Obama... and he'll be able to not only make Black Lives Matters more, but also tend to the needs of the poor white working class... and to tend to the needs of the rich establishment at Wall St and Silicon Valley. If he does all that, we'll probably be okay. ;)

Anyway, unless something happens to Biden and Andrew Cuomo saved NY and forced to run..., we really don't have another option. Biden is it.

I do wonder... if Hillary were to run again, I wonder who the primary voters would go for...

Pondering that prospect, I'm somewhat glad we have Biden..., but even if Hillary won the primary this time, seriously, what else can voters do? There are no realistic 3rd options.

[FaultyMario]

Well, no politician deserves a blank check or unconditional support. Ever.

[Crazed_Insanity]

True.

I’ve done my protest vote because I honestly believed Sanders was robbed or suppressed by the media..., plus I really didn’t like Hillary.

This time around, Sanders is probably the leader in name recognition out of the sea of candidates... he lost to the will of the voters kinda fair a square. I don’t agree with the black establishment, but I have to respect their decision.

Unless the independents form their own major party, we will never end up with a viable 3rd option. Lesser of the two evils will continue on...

[Jason]

Nope, that's how you end up with Trump.

Obama's platitudes for the poor and big fat subsidies for the rich is the antecedent of Trump. We'd do bad to forget that. History is not a luxury.

I'd argue that racism and xenophobia lead to Trump, not Obama's policies.

[Tom Servo]

I'd argue that racism and xenophobia lead to Trump, not Obama's policies.

I'd agree with that. My personal experience with Obama's biggest critics/Trump's biggest supporters is that they don't actually know what Obama's policies *were*. They just know they don't like that Obummercare, not what was actually in it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Pursue of globalism led to the disgruntled working class.

Trump is not unique. There’s also Brexit. In fact, trumpian assholes were rising to power all over the world.

Racism and xenophobia were not the causes but the symptoms. Nationalism happened because globalism has fucked a lot of people over.

If racism is indeed the root of American problem, care to explain how the hell Obama came to be?

Had Obama stayed true to his progressive image projected during his campaign... perhaps Trump wouldn’t have a chance.

You can’t pursue globalistic ideals if your average citizens are not being taken care of. If everyone has affordable healthcare and making living wages, sure pursue globalism... trade for cheap goods... but when you pursue profit over peoples livelihood... they will become xenophobic and nationalistic.

[neanderthal]

Well, no politician deserves a blank check or unconditional support. Ever.

Against Trump?

Lets examine the options. A dedicated narcicist who really doesn't care about anything but how he is perceived, vs anyone that isn't ... Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Stalin, the usual list of cunts.

Important caveat; I have nothing against vaginas, I fucken love them. Cunts, on the other hand ...

I'm going with anyone who isn't in the usual list of cunts. GW Bush would be better than Trump, and I hate abhor loathe detest the fuck out of that cunt. Cruella deVille would be better.

Lets picture a scale; negative 100 (pure, undiluted cunt. The biblical Satan and those who try to be like him) - 0 (nothing of substance either way, like Bernie Sanders) - 100 (lets go with the most prescient and benevolent God here. Ignore the righteous fury and treachery of the old Testament one.)

-100 to -50. You've got Hitler, Pol Pot, Trump, Stalin et al all firmly lined up on the negative side, all with high numbers for the cuntishry. ( a cunt of a devil, ergo cuntishry; new word, learn it.) Trump is here.

-50 to about -10. Here you have your regular cunts. The megalomaniacs are on the upper end of this. Trump chooses to be a cunt, so he's not in this category. Bush is probably a low negative, maybe a -12 or something. (My perspective is obviously one of someone who wasn't bombed with depleted uranium ordinance.) He's still a far better choice! Here you also have your fast lane hogs, people who take up two spaces and ALL republicans. Every. single. one! (trump and bolton would be a higher grade of cunt.)

-10 to about 20. Most humans.
Bernie is a flat ZERO. (he's still a far better choice.) We will place most humans in the very low single digit lows to the mid positives.

20 to about 40. Good dude. Biden is probably a low positive. He's still a far better choice at, say +24, than a -59 Trump (just made those numbers up. Hitler would be high negative a like 80, Stalin an even higher negative -85.) I place Obama higher, maybe 38, but he's still here.

40- 60. Top bloke. Here are geniunely good people who never deliberately hurt anyone, if they do they immediately apologise make amends and correct their behaviour in this area going forward. Your mother Theresa's and Mandela's go here. (So what if Mandela was the initial leader of uMkhonto we Sizwe, the armed wing of the ANC. Fuck racists!)

<sarcasm>60 and above, up to 98. No ones here but me. It's quite lonely.</sarcasm.> I had to put the tags in because people.

100. Our good, loving, and powerful God.

As you can see, you could pick a random person, from anywhere in the world, and they'd be a better presidential candidate than Trump. A fucking rhesus monkey would be better than Trump.
Literally, anyone would be better.

[neanderthal]

-100 Satan.
. Stalin.
. Pol Pot.
. Hitler.
. Idi Amin.
. Some movie villains.
. Trump.
-50
. Most movie villains.
. Racists.
.
.
. Dubya
. Most republicans.
-10
. Some people
.
.
.
. Some people
0 Bernie.
. Some people
.
.
.
. Most people.
.
20 Really good people.
.Biden
.
. A few people.
.President Obama
.
.
40 Top blokes. Mother Theresa. Mandela. Father Christmas. Any saint who didn't do evil things to people.
.
.
.
.
.
60 Me
.
.
.
.
.
.
99 No one.
.
100 The all benevolent and powerful God. Jesus.

Scale is nearly linear.

Look at all the work i've done to show where Biden is vs Trump.

[neanderthal]

I'd argue that racism and xenophobia lead to Trump, not Obama's policies.

Lets not bring truth, common sense and/ or facts into this ...

[neanderthal]

I'd agree with that. My personal experience with Obama's biggest critics/Trump's biggest supporters is that they don't actually know what Obama's policies *were*. They just know they don't like that Obummercare, not what was actually in it.

The defense rests!


I'd like to point out in the venn diagram of President Obama's biggest critics and Trump's biggest supporters, there is a lot of overlap with a third circle of "people who generally know nothing." Or next to nothing.

That's not to say you can be a critic of Obama and not know anything of substance. You actually can. (random thought. If you believed all that "but her emails" shit you're definitely , firmly, ... in that third circle!) There's plenty of generally very good criticism of President Obama. But there's so much more baseless criticism that it's 1% in comparison to the rest of the criticism of him. Tan suit? Really? Dijon Mustard?

Now, if you go "drone strikes," hey, you're the one percent! Here's a cookie. Now sit down.

And if you're offended by that "now sit down" lets see your/ the same energy about Shrub and Trump's foreign policies first. Coz while President Obama's wasn't great (no US president has had one) theirs are considerably worse!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Who has Bernie Sanders hurt or what has he done in order to deserve a score of 0? Or was that scored derived out of your belief that he has done absolutely nothing good nor evil; therefore, net score is zero? ;)

Also, what have you done to deserve such a ultra top bloke status?

Otherwise, I'd agree with this scale of yours. :p

[neanderthal]

Pursue of globalism led to the disgruntled working class.

Trump is not unique. There’s also Brexit. In fact, trumpian assholes were rising to power all over the world.

Racism and xenophobia were not the causes but the symptoms. Nationalism happened because globalism has fucked a lot of people over.

If racism is indeed the root of American problem, care to explain how the hell Obama came to be?

Had Obama stayed true to his progressive image projected during his campaign... perhaps Trump wouldn’t have a chance.

You can’t pursue globalistic ideals if your average citizens are not being taken care of. If everyone has affordable healthcare and making living wages, sure pursue globalism... trade for cheap goods... but when you pursue profit over peoples livelihood... they will become xenophobic and nationalistic.

Can you define all this made up shit you just spouted.

What is "globalism." Give examples. Concrete fucking examples coz i'm gonna go look.
Who is the "average citizen?" Give examples.
Is the average citizen in, say, Namibia, the same as the one in USA? Why or why not?
Who was more hurt by this "globalisation" that you speak of; the third world citizen or the developed country (in this case USA) citizen?
Did the "globalisation" have any positive impact on people who aren't investors?
Where on your scale of "average citizens" are the Native Americans on the rez? Did you include them in your "USA average citizen?" Why or why not?
How about inner city African Americans?
What about undocumented workers here in the United States? Were they on your "average citizen" scale?
How about migrant workers from Sri Lanka who live and work in Dubai? Are they on the Sri Lanka average citizen or the Dubai average worker group?
Did this globalisation you speak off imperil them?
Uighers in China; did you have them as average citizens impacted by globalisation as well?
How about that fierce uncontacted tribe of people who live off the coast of India on that one island? How were they impacted, as "average citizens" by the globalisation you are telling us about?

[neanderthal]

Who has Bernie Sanders hurt in order to deserve a score of 0?

Also, what have you done to deserve such a ultra top bloke status?

Otherwise, I'd agree with this scale of yours. :p

I educate the fuck out of you every day! There's extra special dispensation given to those who do.

<sarcasm> Don't read the sarcasm tags</sarcasm>

[Crazed_Insanity]

Oh wow! Thanks man! I have to agree you deserve special bonus points for all the good deeds done for Billi! :p

Regarding globalization, here’s a dictionary definition: the process by which businesses or other organizations develop international influence or start operating on an international scale.

Another issue might be automation...

Point is that these ‘processes’ ended up making just a few very rich..., and a lot of other folks ended up left behind will become more disgruntled and xenophobic.

Obama didn’t make voters more racist to vote for trump. You can disagree with my reasons but the point is that something happened which consequently created an opportunity for folks like trump to grab power on a global scale. This is not a localized phenomenon. Almost every nation in the world decided to pull themselves back.

People don’t just vote for a black president and then all of a sudden become racists for no good reason and then vote for a white nationalist!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Btw, here is a contemporary and extreme example of how globalism might fuck all of us up:

“ In 2015, the National Bio-safety Laboratory was completed at a cost of 300 million yuan ($44 million) at the Institute in collaboration with French engineers from Lyon, and was the first biosafety level 4 (BSL–4) laboratory to be built in mainland China.[2][7] The laboratory took over a decade to complete from its conception in 2003, and scientists such as U.S. molecular biologist Richard H. Ebright expressed concern of previous escapes of the SARS virus at Chinese laboratories in Beijing, and the pace and scale of China's plans for expansion into BSL–4 laboratories.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan_Institute_of_Virology

Of course we don’t have solid evidences that this virus came from the lab, but it almost doesn’t matter.

Without such global collaboration, this lab won’t exist. Without rapid global communications, we wouldn’t find out about this virus. China could’ve contained it and world would never hear about it. Without such ease of global travel, the disease also won’t be able to transmit so rapidly.

So thanks to all of the above ‘global’ examples, every nation has now closed down its borders. Are we all now more racist and xenophobic than before?

Not trying to be judgmental of what’s right or wrong way to do anything in these examples, it’s more like cause and effect.

Xenophobia and nationalistic racism are actually just the result of our global collaborations gone bad...

If things didn’t go bad, my family would be on a cruise right now in Europe! If things didn’t go too badly for enough voters back in 2016, for sure Hillary would be president. If EU and UK did things right, there’s be no Brexit...

Point is I don’t believe American voters became more ‘racist’ back in 2016 for no reason.

Of course racism still exist and probably won’t ever be eradicated completely. But Hillary didn’t lose because of racism or sexism, but most likely globalism or perhaps automation as Andrew Yang suggested.

[Tom Servo]

I'd also say that social media and the ability to set up "news-ish" sites and pages with somewhat professional looking production values has exacerbated some of this, especially with various world powers willing to use those things as ways to sway public opinion. The number of my friends who I normally consider to be pretty reasonable reposting conspiracy theories from various Facebook pages and the like is really disheartening.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, do you believe in free speech and free press?

Or would you rather have a more ‘factually authoritative’ media controlling the narratives for us?

When the richest nation in the world could afford to educate every one of its citizens properly, then we have less to worry about from those shady news outlets.

When the richest nation in the world can afford to lift its citizens out of poverty and having affordable healthcare... pretty sure we’ll be able to dramatically reduce racism and xenophobia.

I guess USA is just not rich enough yet? That we absolutely need to exploit essential workers to live in poverty, keep them lowly educated and keep them sick...

Yes, return to normalcy! We gotta vote Biden! Let not dare to dream...

[FaultyMario]

I'd argue that racism and xenophobia lead to Trump, not Obama's policies.

Power is missing from that equation.

[Tom Servo]

Well, do you believe in free speech and free press?

Or would you rather have a more ‘factually authoritative’ media controlling the narratives for us?


You were lamenting in the Pandemic thread that everyone just wants to seem to argue with you. I have a feeling it's because you respond to almost anything anybody posts with combative things like this. I never said I didn't believe in free speech, I never even advocated for restricting free speech.

Maybe you don't mean to come across as combative, but you most certainly do.

[neanderthal]

Oh wow! Thanks man! I have to agree you deserve special bonus points for all the good deeds done for Billi! :p

Regarding globalization, here’s a dictionary definition: the process by which businesses or other organizations develop international influence or start operating on an international scale.

Another issue might be automation...

Point is that these ‘processes’ ended up making just a few very rich..., and a lot of other folks ended up left behind will become more disgruntled and xenophobic.

Obama didn’t make voters more racist to vote for trump. You can disagree with my reasons but the point is that something happened which consequently created an opportunity for folks like trump to grab power on a global scale. This is not a localized phenomenon. Almost every nation in the world decided to pull themselves back.

People don’t just vote for a black president and then all of a sudden become racists for no good reason and then vote for a white nationalist!

You didn't answer any of my questions besides quote a somebody/ website on the definition of "globalism."

I thought I asked a series of very pointed questions that put your globalism theory to test.

Black people lost jobs with "globalisation." So did brown people. So did white people. Why then did white people "turn racist" in the elections?

[neanderthal]

Power is missing from that equation.

You're gonna have to expound. I have my own ideas on what you mean, but I have no frame of reference for yours.

[neanderthal]

I'd also say that social media and the ability to set up "news-ish" sites and pages with somewhat professional looking production values has exacerbated some of this, especially with various world powers willing to use those things as ways to sway public opinion. The number of my friends who I normally consider to be pretty reasonable reposting conspiracy theories from various Facebook pages and the like is really disheartening.

The fourth estate is now the 3 1/2 estate. And we're the poorer for it. :sadbanana:

[Crazed_Insanity]

You were lamenting in the Pandemic thread that everyone just wants to seem to argue with you. I have a feeling it's because you respond to almost anything anybody posts with combative things like this. I never said I didn't believe in free speech, I never even advocated for restricting free speech.

Maybe you don't mean to come across as combative, but you most certainly do.

Those questions you quoted were meant to be thought provoking... I wasn’t trying to dismiss your opinion, but trying to reframe your perspective to appreciate our free and crazy press more! ;)

I do have to admit my style of writing could perhaps provoke others unnecessarily at times. Perhaps I shouldn’t ask you those questions and simply stated my opinion in a less combative way?

[Crazed_Insanity]

You didn't answer any of my questions besides quote a somebody/ website on the definition of "globalism."

I thought I asked a series of very pointed questions that put your globalism theory to test.

Black people lost jobs with "globalisation." So did brown people. So did white people. Why then did white people "turn racist" in the elections?

If you asked me this question earlier, I would not know how to answer and likely admit to racism. However, thankfully for swervo’s informative black establishment article, now I can answer.

Democrats can own black slaves again and you would not vote against the democrats. Democratic establishment has risen to the level near Jesus!

I’m not black, so I don’t buy that.

Similarly, I don’t buy Trump is a born again Christian nor is he really antiestablishment.

There are definitely racists who voted for Trump. But the reason why he flipped those swing states were not because those states all of a sudden turned racists.

Even if my reasons are wrong, Does it make sense for a state Obama won to all of a sudden turn racist?

[neanderthal]

If you asked me this question earlier, I would not know how to answer and likely admit to racism. However, thankfully for swervo’s informative black establishment article, now I can answer.

Democrats can own black slaves again and you would not vote against the democrats. Democratic establishment has risen to the level near Jesus!

What ... the. actual. fuck?!? :smh:

You're not a habitual line stepper; you like to jump straight into racism with both fucking feet, wallow in that with willful glee, then proclaim it's your failure of a complete grasp of English.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not gleeing, you asked, and I gave you my best answer.

If your answer is racism and my answer is also racism then I guess you’re right. Root of all of our evils is racism?

Feel free to ignore my answer or ignore me again.

[neanderthal]

Not even a near best answer. Not even a pause and rethink.

You remain, as always, a cunt!

Back to ignore.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Never claimed that I have the best answer, but that is my only answer at the moment. As I was telling you, I had no answers before reading that article.

Anyway, there will always be racism and there will always be white and black people. We can’t always just blame whatever troubles we have on racism and be done with it. Just as we shouldn’t just resort to ‘God did it’ and be done happy with that.

I’m certainly opened to any other ideas why Trump won those swing states. How did those ‘racist’ states managed to vote for a black president earlier? How were they able to suppress their racist feelings to go Obama or how those states became more racists because of Obama?

I really think a lot of our troubles were cause by blind loyalty. People blindly fall behind their party lines.

[Tom Servo]

Those questions you quoted were meant to be thought provoking... I wasn’t trying to dismiss your opinion, but trying to reframe your perspective to appreciate our free and crazy press more! ;)

I do have to admit my style of writing could perhaps provoke others unnecessarily at times. Perhaps I shouldn’t ask you those questions and simply stated my opinion in a less combative way?


Part of it was the way it was framed. It sounded awfully accusatory that I don't believe in freedom of speech or the press, and that I would prefer some sort of controlled media to set the narrative. Something like "How would you balance that with the first amendment" feels a lot less like putting words in my mouth, as I don't advocate for people having their first amendment rights taken away despite acknowledging potential problems with any idiot being able to have a soapbox.

Again, you do what you're gonna do, but you seemed like you couldn't understand why everyone gets into arguments with you, and personally I'd say that, intentionally or not, you usually start it.

[FaultyMario]

You're gonna have to expound. I have my own ideas on what you mean, but I have no frame of reference for yours.

Mr. Obama is a powerful individual who carefully chooses how to wield that power.

Yes racism and xenophobia are, dare I say it, values embedded within an organization, the U.S. government, that has spent the last 70 years being racist and xenophobic.

Could Mr. Obama have used his power to make a cultural shift inside the organization that he led for eight years?

During the 2008-2010 financial meltdown, He used his power to cement neoliberal policies in the face of institutional failure. He did not 'stimulate the economy' in a broad sense, instead he scaffolded those neoliberal arrangements that had not only failed the rich, but that are also the cause of much malady to poor people of all colors. He was an exceptionally efficacious manager for the privileged few. I'm of the opinion that that should have afforded him enough good faith to devise a way to make the U.S. government less racist and less xenophobic. Instead, he reached new records in deporting people who had entered the United States by ways other than port of entry. Instead, he reached new records in bombing brown people overseas.

Do you think there's a disconnect for an organization in that it can express its values to some people but not to others? Like a switch that goes "swamp" on/off? Of course not! Those abuses are present in the minds of people who support Trump. All Trump the demagogue had to do was promise to make changes, superficial changes, minor changes.

True change was always in Obama's hands, but he chose not to seriously engage in it.

Theatrical change is always part of Trump's playbook. He's always signing executive orders, he's always re-appointing funds. He doesn't know how government works, but he knows the destitute can't have justice, so he offers them revenge. Obama the brilliant offered neither, he favored stability.

Obama promised new, instead he kept the good ole untouched. So much for change, eh?

https://pictures.abebooks.com/LIBRERIACIRLOT/md/md30053721161_3.jpg




If you're wondering, my equation goes like this:


((power)*(willingness to change)) + (Σ cultural values) = sustained policies

You go ahead and punch in the numbers that would lead to Trump's victory.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Swervo, you could very well be right. My writing style along with my tendencies to get involved in controversial topics, I could very well be ‘asking for it’! I am not trying to shift all the blames to others, I most likely share a lot of blames as well.

However, I don’t think we should get so wrapped up with each other’s writing style or perceived tone and stuff... why not just try to focus on substance?

Are Americans really that racist? If yes, then how did we elect a black president before Trump?

[Tom Servo]

This is a message board. We literally have nothing else to go on other than people's writing.

You constantly get into battles with people here, and acknowledge it may be due to the way you write/what you say while appearing to be unhappy with that status quo. This is your problem to solve if you want to solve it, and the solution is right in front of you.

[neanderthal]

Mr. Obama is a powerful individual who carefully chooses how to wield that power.

Yes racism and xenophobia are, dare I say it, values embedded within an organization, the U.S. government, that has spent the last 70 years being racist and xenophobic.

Could Mr. Obama have used his power to make a cultural shift inside the organization that he led for eight years?

During the 2008-2010 financial meltdown, He used his power to cement neoliberal policies in the face of institutional failure. He did not 'stimulate the economy' in a broad sense, instead he scaffolded those neoliberal arrangements that had not only failed the rich, but that are also the cause of much malady to poor people of all colors. He was an exceptionally efficacious manager for the privileged few. I'm of the opinion that that should have afforded him enough good faith to devise a way to make the U.S. government less racist and less xenophobic. Instead, he reached new records in deporting people who had entered the United States by ways other than port of entry. Instead, he reached new records in bombing brown people overseas.

Do you think there's a disconnect for an organization in that it can express its values to some people but not to others? Like a switch that goes "swamp" on/off? Of course not! Those abuses are present in the minds of people who support Trump. All Trump the demagogue had to do was promise to make changes, superficial changes, minor changes.

True change was always in Obama's hands, but he chose not to seriously engage in it.

Theatrical change is always part of Trump's playbook. He's always signing executive orders, he's always re-appointing funds. He doesn't know how government works, but he knows the destitute can't have justice, so he offers them revenge. Obama the brilliant offered neither, he favored stability.

Obama promised new, instead he kept the good ole untouched. So much for change, eh?

https://pictures.abebooks.com/LIBRERIACIRLOT/md/md30053721161_3.jpg




If you're wondering, my equation goes like this:


((power)*(willingness to change)) + (Σ cultural values) = sustained policies

You go ahead and punch in the numbers that would lead to Trump's victory.

So, basically, in the midst of an economic meltdown, you wanted the man to solve racism, level the economic playing field, fix sexism, fix the economy, magically change the status of undocumented people and do the Men in Black amniesia thing with racists republicans, and bring peace to the middle east? Did I miss anything?

I can see why you're disappointed. But, where is that energy for any other president? Like, why is it that the first actually not rich president we have had in along time, happens to be brown, y'all suddenly have these expectations for him, but can't/ won't say shit when its old white men in the White House? That's really the crux of my problem with these Obama expectations. Y'all were really looking for Jesus.


I see so many criticisms of Obama and even Kamala, and I think to myself, "why the fuck would anybody want to even try if this is what they're gonna get?" And now i'm not even talking about you and your unrealistic expectations (lets be real) i'm talking about other black folk setting this impossible barrier, this hurdle for African Americans in political life to surmount.

I'm fine with Obama because I saw what came before him. And if we had elected Hillary Clinton, we could have moved progressive issues front and center and been so much closer to giving people those impossible things you think one person can get done. If Obama had simply done what Bill Clinton had done, blowjob and all, I would have been very happy. But, he had a scandal free presidency and for that I am ecstatic.

Just to be clear. The rearranging of the furniture is not what you do when the house is burning down.

I thought Obama handled his term adroitly, especially given the resistance he met at every turn. We got health care passed. It wasn't perfect but motherfuckers voted for enough Republicans to not make it veto proof. That's on voters. I could go on and on and on about what could have been done, but looking at the tactics and intransigence of the GOP, man balled hard and got the W.

[neanderthal]

Which brings up a point. President Obama was the first solidly middle class man to be president in a very long time. And got grief from everybody, despite the circumstances of his presidency. Did anybody even know what a filibuster was before 2009? Did anybody see an entire, um ... news (?) channel dedicated to undoing everything he did. An entire swath of the radio waves. Print media. Social media. There has never been such unprecedented, continued resistance and obstruction to any President. And y'all act like he didn't try. Congress basically said "fuck it, we ain't doing our jobs" and McConnell openly said "we are going to do everything in our power to make him a one term president ruin his presidency" and y'all are like "he coulda done better."

Not me.

They deliberately shut down the government several times, just to throw their temper tantrums. And y'all like, "he coulda done better." That's an extreme thing, shutting down a government to make a very bad point.

Get outta here with that bullshit.

I'm going to bed before I raise my blood pressure.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This is a message board. We literally have nothing else to go on other than people's writing.

You constantly get into battles with people here, and acknowledge it may be due to the way you write/what you say while appearing to be unhappy with that status quo. This is your problem to solve if you want to solve it, and the solution is right in front of you.

It's easier said than done. Seriously, I had no idea my 2 questions can be seen as "combative" to you when I wrote it.

If I ever cross your line again, please do let me know, I'll try to rephrase. But I'm not optimistic that I'll be able to know with 100% certainty that the sentences I wrote won't piss people off. I'm more worried about the ideas that I wrote pisses people off or not... even with that... my intention was NOT to piss Neanderthal off. I just want a honest discussion.

Anyway, let's get back to politics shall we?

[Tom Servo]

Will do, and I'll try to assume honest and positive intentions.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Please know that I always try to be honest, I don’t deliberately spread lies. My opinions and beliefs may ultimately be false and if I do spread that kind of falsehood, it’d only be because I myself was deceived.

Anyway, as always I appreciate your feedback.

Now, back to Obama, I was disappointed by the same things Mario listed, but I don’t really want to believe Obama was really that evil nor powerful. I tend to believe this ‘middle class’ president was forced to do those evils rather than the mastermind behind all those evils.

Why do I believe that? Because of Michele Obama. She is not dumb and I’m pretty sure she would fucking divorce him if Obama is as evil and power hungry
as Mario claimed to be.

I do agree neoliberalism was Democrat’s’ downfall. Neoliberalism and globalism is pretty similar, essentially we end up paying little attention of the essential workers and take them for granted.

Black workers will always be loyal to dems, but white workers got suckered by trump. It’s those disgruntled workers that swung the balance not the sudden increase of racists.

Yes, trump supporters are likely racists, but not all trump supporters are racists.

All I know is that America has enough non racists to elect a black president and trump could never change that!

[Rikadyn]

Yes racism and xenophobia are, dare I say it, values embedded within an organization, the U.S. government, that has spent the last 70 years being racist and xenophobic.



70 years? The foundation of the country is in racism and genocide.

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/68kkx14m3at41.jpg

[Jason]

Please know that I always try to be honest, I don’t deliberately spread lies.

I said I was going to stop getting into the Mo/Billi posts... but I couldn’t pass this by without chiming in with my opinion on this:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[FaultyMario]

Get outta here with that bullshit.

Mmm, no, you don't get to arbiter other people's opinions. Especially when all you do is regurgitate your arguments over what other people say without any consideration as to what they're actually saying.

Yeah we get it, Obama was the new boy on the hill and he was bullied by those bad Republicans from fifth grade, who were so mean to him, that for eight years he just froze and could not do any of the changes he said he would do. The same man that a couple of weeks ago was able to stop a social movement with a handful of calls.

Poor Barry! They were so mean to him.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I said I was going to stop getting into the Mo/Billi posts... but I couldn’t pass this by without chiming in with my opinion on this:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

What? What accidental lies have I actually spread? :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mmm, no, you don't get to arbiter other people's opinions. Especially when all you do is regurgitate your arguments over what other people say without any consideration as to what they're actually saying.

Yeah we get it, Obama was the new boy on the hill and he was bullied by those bad Republicans from fifth grade, who were so mean to him, that for eight years he just froze and could not do any of the changes he said he would do. The same man that a couple of weeks ago was able to stop a social movement with a handful of calls.

Poor Barry! They were so mean to him.

What happened before SC was a stroke of genius, but the subsequent lost of support for Bernie, particularly for states that he won 4 years ago cannot be credited to Obama. There just were not enough young voters to offset the boomer votes. The ‘social movement’ was simply not as strong as we thought. I think Sanders might have won some states because more people hated Hillary... Therefore, I think it’s safe to conclude that Bernie may not have sufficient support to beat Trump in 2020.

Back in 2016, people know he's the genuine anti-establishment candidate... and anti-establishment was a thing back then.

In 2020, anti-establishment is no longer a thing. Amongst the voters who want to oust Trump, it is now clear most of them supports Biden. I think this reality was simply masked by the sea of candidates... and it gave us the illusion that Sanders is the leader of the pack. Overall votes for the moderate candidates were already significant even back in Iowa and NH even if Sanders emerged as the winner. People who voted for Pete or Amy or bloomberg were never going to switch over the Sanders.

When we're left with a single moderate candidate, Sanders just could not compete without more younger voters.

Hopefully COVID19 stay at home orders will result in a population boom in America!

[FaultyMario]

Again, read some of the reporters who were actually covering the campaigns. The aforementioned Marans and Jordan Chariton, Matt Taibi. They give more precise accounts of both Sanders' blunders and the behind-the-curtain stuff going on with the rich and powerful and their chess games.


The ‘social movement’ was simply not as strong as we thought.

I disagree, the numbers of donors and of funds raised in 2019 Q4 and 2020 Q1 by the Sanders campaign were unheard of. Wasn't Mayo Pete always justifying his wine cave dinners on the fact that it was impossible to raise enough from small donors to be competitive? Didn't the 'purity test' narrative make his way onto this very forum?

[FaultyMario]

"I decided to be an amateur piñata again since it had only been 4 years since I had the shit beat out of me with a stick by the neoliberal establishment. Mmmmm…….. want me some of that again."

[...]

"The sheer lunacy of participating in something so completely and fully rigged isn’t compatible with self-esteem though, and a lot of Bernie supporters, who overall are good and genuine people, merely wanted a better life for everyone. These supporters are feeling humiliated and played. Because they were. And they didn’t deserve it. "
(https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/04/17/bernies-political-funeral-2/)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’ll read your links a little later...

Regarding donor support, well, not all voters have disposable income to give. I know Sanders received most of the grassroots support and Biden was having a hard time raising money... except from Wall Street...

But this election cycle, we have more data points to look at, just look at Andrew Yang! He received very significant grassroot supports financially. His race outlasted career politicians!

However, his poll numbers remained single digit and just enough to qualify for debates.

He also got next to nothing after Iowa and NH!

I just don’t think the DNC could selectively rig election results for both Yang and Sanders... if they are going to rig it, might as well make Sanders look worse, right?

Anyway, my point is that we can’t directly translate grassroot donations into actual votes.

If you want to compare dollars amounts, Sanders need to compare himself with Trump in order to have a chance to beat him. I don’t think Sanders raised more money than Trump, right?

Grassroot money is probably only indicative of voter enthusiasm. To realistically win, you probably also need big money.

Trump has both grassroot support and big money. The republican ‘regressives’ and their moderates are united and they should be easily able to defeat the fractured liberals.

We don’t really know how to work together so we’re left to just accuse them as bunch of racists to make ourselves feel better.

Obama was able to unite the liberals.

Maybe Sanders really should not have run this year. Warren and Mayor Pete could perhaps do a better job uniting all liberals and defeat Biden. Bernie will never ever receive the black support he needs anyway...

Biden and Bernie are just too polarizing to unite all liberals... but Biden is a bit less polarizing than Hillary.

Unless Neanderthal really pissed me off good, Biden will have my vote. But again, it’s not like CA will ever go Trump...

I could vote Trump, Biden, 3rd party or nobody and my vote won't make a difference...

Maybe I should move to Iowa.

[neanderthal]

Mmm, no, you don't get to arbiter other people's opinions. Especially when all you do is regurgitate your arguments over what other people say without any consideration as to what they're actually saying.

Yeah we get it, Obama was the new boy on the hill and he was bullied by those bad Republicans from fifth grade, who were so mean to him, that for eight years he just froze and could not do any of the changes he said he would do. The same man that a couple of weeks ago was able to stop a social movement with a handful of calls.

Poor Barry! They were so mean to him.


So ... you're saying you don't know how the three branches of government work then? Because they have very distinct powers. But I digress.

What was the social movement that he stopped? Do you mean the failed campaign of the former loser of the 2016 Democratic primary? He who said he would mobilise a generation of new young voters, then didn't? And you blame an outside agent, President Obama, for his failure to reach the dizzying heights he promised?
While at the same time blaming President Obama for the outside agents, Republican majorities in the Congress and Senate, who stymied his presidency at every turn?

lol. That's rich.

Like I said, gerrarahere.

[FaultyMario]

That's rich. Like I said, gerrarahere.

And that boys and girls, is how smugness loses elections.

[Jason]

I don’t understand why we’re on Bernie vs Biden still... shouldn’t we be on to Biden vs Trump?

[neanderthal]

And that boys and girls, is how smugness loses elections.

How am I being smug?
You're criticising Obama for the actions of others while simultaneously criticising Obama for the actions of Bernie. You can't have it both ways.

[Crazed_Insanity]

"I decided to be an amateur piñata again since it had only been 4 years since I had the shit beat out of me with a stick by the neoliberal establishment. Mmmmm…….. want me some of that again."

[...]

"The sheer lunacy of participating in something so completely and fully rigged isn’t compatible with self-esteem though, and a lot of Bernie supporters, who overall are good and genuine people, merely wanted a better life for everyone. These supporters are feeling humiliated and played. Because they were. And they didn’t deserve it. "
(https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/04/17/bernies-political-funeral-2/)

Yeah, after reading this, again, I generally agree with the author, but my position is not as extreme as the author... for example, for sure our primary process had been manipulated and screwed up, but I don’t believe they were completely rigged.

Hiring ex-Hillary folks to produce that shadowy app was amazingly stupid, but the end result was clearly showing their incompetence rather producing the result that they truly want.

Previously I’d totally agree that picking Biden would clearly show that the DNC didn’t care about winning... but clearly Biden is probably their best choice. Pete is gay. Although he was the moderate front runner, will the black Christians and eventually Christian conservatives who hate trump really go for a gay guy enthusiastically? Maybe yes maybe no but Biden is clearly the safer bet.

Anyway, my only hope now is that the spirit of Sanders could transfer a bit to Biden now because of Coronavirus. Biden’s threat to veto M4A was probably said to distinguish himself from Sanders..., but now, there’s no more reason for him to say that we can’t afford it.

2016 was antiestablishment.

2020 is return to normalcy. Even conservatives are desiring to return to normal lives. Dems need to capitalize on that.

Taiwan has a pretty progressive government and they didn’t have to shut down anything to get things under control.

It is doable.

However, USA needs to become more progressive on things 1st.

[FaultyMario]

I was just out casually criticizing people-killing neoliberals and their patron, Saint Barry.

I'm pointing out the stuff that seems obvious to me. People want change and they are willing to endure some minor1 nuisances in order to get it, and they will go with the person who can pitch 'change' to them. But hey, if you want to ignore recent history of how business-as-usual politicians just can't compete2 against populists and demagogues, be my guest. Just don't come complaining when Lyin' Ole Donnie crushes I-need-notes-for-a-sitdown-cable-news-interview Biden.

1 To them.
2 See the elections in Brazil, Mexico, Bolivia, Spain, Greece, Ukraine and India for further details.