Politics

[FaultyMario]

With my respect to MK, may I ask...

Fundamentalism? The Islamic rhetoric of the poor or the capitalist verbiage?

[overpowered]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11046962_1067007426659237_4620938901127115958_n.jp g?oh=b2edaaa510d79f2910450959690b53da&oe=558FCB5A&__gda__=1434184805_df2cc27e7738064769db4fc35fdb775 5

[overpowered]

University of Oklahoma frat investigated after video of ‘Never be a n****r SAE’ sing-along goes viral

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/university-of-oklahoma-frat-investigated-after-video-of-never-be-a-nr-sae-sing-along-goes-viral/

[FaultyMario]

What the fucking fuck, Obama?

Bush I was way more subtle when He assessed his power in the hemisphere by trampling on Panama's sovereignty.

[MR2 Fan]

What the fucking fuck, Obama?

Bush I was way more subtle when He assessed his power in the hemisphere by trampling on Panama's sovereignty.

Is this about Venezeula?

In other news, about Hillary releasing personal emails at the state department, Republican Senator Lindsay Graham says he won't release his emails because he has never sent one..........ever. I've heard of being out of touch but this is ridiculous!

[overpowered]

He's also on the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Privacy, Technology and the Law.

[FaultyMario]

Is this about Venezeula?



Yes.

[MR2 Fan]

Yes.

I just saw a headline about it....seemed to come out of nowhere.

[overpowered]

Rush Dumbaugh defends the OU ΣΑΕ frat boys.

http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/03/11/limbaugh-claims-racist-fraternity-chant-would-b/202853

:rolleyes:

[overpowered]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10993409_1068415259851787_1061655701441079925_n.jp g?oh=9f0500c76a8af9ecbe8ba8b1a8fdd53d&oe=55720B69&__gda__=1434601987_3f04df957bb036d167b2e234ee7409b 2

[overpowered]

Lindsey Graham is one scary dude.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/sen-lindsey-graham-my-first-act-as-president-would-be-sending-the-military-after-congress/

Fortunately, there's no way he could get elected as president.

[21Kid]

WTMF... :smh: who votes for someone like that? :smh:

The thing that really aggravates me... is that no elected officials ever gets punished.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PFd_-4F2vY

[Sad, little man]

Alleged drunken driving agents may have run over suspicious package (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/235554-secret-service-agents-may-have-run-over-suspicious-package-in-alleged)

I don't care who you are, that's some funny stuff right there. (Actually, maybe it's not if you're Obama.)

[overpowered]

Petition to file charges against the 47 U.S. Senators in violation of The Logan Act in attempting to undermine a nuclear agreement.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/file-charges-against-47-us-senators-violation-logan-act-attempting-undermine-nuclear-agreement/NKQnpJS9

[thesameguy]

Yep, let's sign that. :up:

[MR2 Fan]

Petition to file charges against the 47 U.S. Senators in violation of The Logan Act in attempting to undermine a nuclear agreement.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/file-charges-against-47-us-senators-violation-logan-act-attempting-undermine-nuclear-agreement/NKQnpJS9

Yeah, when I heard about the letter, all I could think of was

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/51631703.jpg

And I agree with the petition....#47Traitors was trending in the top 10 on twitter for 2-3 days

[FaultyMario]

To the surprise of absolutely no one, ICIj -the folks behind Swissleaks- has discovered how the Koch Brothers dissolved debt and evaded tax thru a banking ping-pong of sorts.

http://www.icij.org/project/luxembourg-leaks/new-leak-reveals-luxembourg-tax-deals-disney-koch-brothers-empire#projectsnow

[LHutton]

Petition to file charges against the 47 U.S. Senators in violation of The Logan Act in attempting to undermine a nuclear agreement.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/file-charges-against-47-us-senators-violation-logan-act-attempting-undermine-nuclear-agreement/NKQnpJS9
Israel is so so desperate to find an excuse to attack Iran. They probably already have it written on the calendar for 2017.

[FaultyMario]

They should get in line, LOL.

America's been trying for, like, 40 years. #SoFunny

[LHutton]

They should get in line, LOL.

America's been trying for, like, 40 years. #SoFunny
Before Obama, I agree. After he leaves and the Reps get in, I see an attack on Iran being almost definite.

In the mean time, this will no doubt benefit social harmony.:rolleyes:

http://news.yahoo.com/philly-buses-ordered-accept-ads-featuring-hitler-200901893.html


PHILADELPHIA (AP) — Philadelphia's transit system has been ordered to accept provocative ads that include a 1941 photograph of Adolf Hitler with a former Arab leader after a federal judge ruled in favor of a pro-Israel group's free-speech lawsuit.

The proposed bus ads carry a tagline saying: "Jew Hatred: It's in the Quran."

The Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority believes the ads violate "minimal civility standards" and will consider an appeal. The Philadelphia Inquirer first reported on Wednesday's ruling by U.S. District Judge Mitchell Goldberg.

The ad in question features a photograph of a 1941 meeting between Adolf Hitler and Hajj Amin al-Husseini, described by the group as a Palestinian leader and Hitler ally.

http://cdn.phillymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/anti-muslim-bus-ad-suit-septa.jpg

Can you imagine if someone put up a similar advert about Jews or Israel?

[FaultyMario]

Gosh, that would be horrible, terrible!

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-UT309_0927bo_G_20120927143341.jpg

[MR2 Fan]

Before Obama, I agree. After he leaves and the Reps get in, I see an attack on Iran being almost definite.

lets hope we don't get another republican president this cycle...honestly I don't see any of the "front runners" right now having a chance, other than *maybe* Jeb

[overpowered]

Republican lawmaker: Childbirth resulting from rape is "beautiful"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/republican-lawmaker-childbirth-resulting-from-rape-is-beautiful/

[LHutton]

Gosh, that would be horrible, terrible!

[IMG]http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-UT309_0927bo_G_20120927143341.jpg[IMG]
I still can't believe he actually stood there with that picture. He may as well have been dressed as Mickey Mouse when he did it.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz-AhuwuGp4

[thesameguy]

lets hope we don't get another republican president this cycle...honestly I don't see any of the "front runners" right now having a chance, other than *maybe* Jeb

The idea of third one of those assholes makes me throw up a little in my mouth. The crazy thing is that after 2, 1 seems like a totally reasonable president. I can't imagine a third.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UM-hAbfOkA

[thesameguy]

Begs the question... should I move to Australia?

[overpowered]

The George W. Bush email scandal the media has conveniently forgotten

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/12/the_george_w_bush_email_scandal_the_media_has_conv eniently_forgotten_partner/

[Crazed_Insanity]

Really? The media is now made up of right wing crazies? I thought it's usually the other way around.

Also, that RT video is kinda lame..., I can understand 'treason' for Nixon and Reagan, but I'd think it'd perfectly legit for their VPs to take over later on. Why the need to attack their entry into the White House?

As for W, as much as I dislike the guy as a president, I doubt his campaign was powerful enough to cause such a tight race. And if the supreme court is leaning more on the conservative side and ended up giving the office to W, is that treason? I'd think it's more of a treason to continue to deny a nation a leader by demanding recount after recount.

Anyway, our next election sure will be interesting. I don't like Hillary and I don't like anything Republicans have to offer. Hope nobody will resort to committing treasons to win the election again...

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11026326_821192974583050_4253991232862796292_n.jpg ?oh=f368632d3ae6c1b533fa6d7ab0fee1f4&oe=55B10A5A

[Freude am Fahren]

I don't know if this is still the case, but generally, talk radio has been much more right leaning than TV.

[thesameguy]

Wisconsin, Kansas, and maybe Ohio should merge. Or maybe they are acquisition targets for other states?

[overpowered]

Tennessee republican opposes the creation of 200,000 jobs by Volkswagen in his state because it will attract unions:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/tenn-goper-slams-volkswagen-creating-200000-jobs-is-intentionally-a-magnet-for-unionized-labor/

[overpowered]

Tom Cotton is amazingly stupid.

About 30 seconds in he's talking about Iran controlling other countries and says "they already control Tehran". Apparently he doesn't know that Tehran is the capitol of Iran.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX8y-91tfCo

[overpowered]

Republican lawmakers in Missouri have passed a bill to subsidize insurance for cows:

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/missouri-tackles-the-affordable-cow-act

[overpowered]

Mighty Morphin Position Changers

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/faezep/mighty-morphin-position-changers

[Rikadyn]

How raptors hunt is like an abortion as told to 4th graders

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/nh-republicans-deliver-rough-message-4th-graders

[overpowered]

Beck and Rove fighting with each other:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/the-spine-of-a-worm-the-ethics-of-whores-glenn-beck-unloads-on-karl-rove/

[FaultyMario]

Know thy saviour:

1123

[MR2 Fan]

he's canadian, I'm getting the popcorn

[speedpimp]

How raptors hunt is like an abortion as told to 4th graders

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/nh-republicans-deliver-rough-message-4th-graders

What a fucking bunch of worthless cunts to turn even the most trivial thing into politicized bullshit.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szUcvJi8FWM

[MR2 Fan]

http://img-9gag-ftw.9cache.com/photo/a2YKnvY_460s_v1.jpg

[overpowered]

Ted Cruz' Politicfact file:

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/ted-cruz/

[overpowered]

I admit, I didn't see this coming. Trump, who was a big birther with Obama is actually challenging Cruz. Of course, it's not a huge surprise, since Trump is considering running himself.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/236651-trump-cruz-faces-hurdle-for-canadian-birthplace

[overpowered]

I know it's 'shopped but:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11072528_10153686302249746_9219027569586698153_n.j pg?oh=04a788cf2e5eb3c34636d45b118c7416&oe=55B71CA4&__gda__=1434315227_53ed16a3bfde6ba76d92d50b5991c4b 0

[21Kid]

Ted Cruz' Politicfact file:

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/ted-cruz/

At least he got one right... :smh:

[overpowered]

I don't think that the governor will actually be influenced by this but he probably should be. Big conventions are big money to the local economy and the taxpayers:

http://www.newnownext.com/gamers-threaten-to-pull-50-convention-if-indiana-gov-signs-anti-gay-bill-into-law/03/2015/

[speedpimp]

Pence will sign that bill with great joy and probably hold a parade before he signs it.

[JoshInKC]

Well, I guess it's nice to know that there's another competitor (alongside Brownback and Scott Walker) in the current governors' race to the bottom of the barrel.
As far as I know, mine is the only one who got audibly booed at a televised NCAA tournament though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enkILtkjInQ
Piece of shit.

[thesameguy]

http://boomstickcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/three-amigos-01.png

He's more than famous!

[speedpimp]

We'll see how far it gets when people start denying services to minorities and interracial couples because of their "religious freedom" to be a total cunt.

[overpowered]

Lawyer In California Proposes Killing Gays With 'Sodomite Suppression Act'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/02/lawyer-killing-gays-sodomite-suppression_n_6786776.html

I grew up behind the orange curtain, just one city over from this psycho. It's totally in line with what a lot of people there think.

[Rikadyn]

build a wall.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Lawyer In California Proposes Killing Gays With 'Sodomite Suppression Act'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/02/lawyer-killing-gays-sodomite-suppression_n_6786776.html

I grew up behind the orange curtain, just one city over from this psycho. It's totally in line with what a lot of people there think.

First off, such proposals would go no where. You just can't have death penalty in CA.

So what do you propose we do to such crazy people like that? Okay, death penalty is too cruel, what other 'suppression' techniques can you think of?

Now, it'd be easier for me to understand that crazy guy's fear. He believes in God and the believes gays might anger his God and end up killing him! Obviously he doesn't know God or the Bible very well. God most certainly was willing to spare Sodom and Gomorrah had there been just a few righteous folks living in those towns. Abraham's nephew was living in there and God spared him. If Abraham could prove to God there had been more righteous men, God was willing to let Sodom and Gomorrah be! So it was obvious the whole town was pretty messed up. I seriously down any town in US is full of unrighteous gay people. It is probably full of unrighteous sinners, but I kinda doubt it's full of gay folks. Plus, God has shown lots of mercy and grace to all of us sinners so far. I really wouldn't worry about anymore rainy fireballs any time soon.

So hopefully a bit of bible education can help the guy out.

If the guy is simply hiding behind the bible with his bigotry, then hopefully some day he'll be able to learn what love is all about before he dies out.

[thesameguy]

I think we should encourage people to submit these types of proposals.

That way we know who they are.

[overpowered]

He should be publicly reviled for the evil scum that he is.

In other news, Ted Cruz compares himself to Galileo in the climate change debate:

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/ted-cruz-cast-himself-the-role-galileo

[thesameguy]

1. Find out their names
2. Revile them
3. Profit?

Step one is done!

[FaultyMario]

Chechnya-offers-arms-to-Mexico-to-fight-United-States (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2015/03/26/Chechnya-offers-arms-to-Mexico-to-fight-United-States/1231427392051/)

[George]

Chechnya-offers-arms-to-Mexico-to-fight-United-States (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2015/03/26/Chechnya-offers-arms-to-Mexico-to-fight-United-States/1231427392051/)

Good reading, both for current events and history. Thanks for posting.

[FaultyMario]

That comment has nothing to do with the fact that you are in Denver, Mile HIGH and all that... right?

[LHutton]

Pretty nice equivalent there.

[MR2 Fan]

I think what the non-right wing wackos need to do is a full ad campaign to showcase all of the seriously backwards ideas that these right-wingers have brought forth...we see it when we go out and check certain news sites, but put them all together in a massive ad-campaign, and call out the other republicans for not denouncing them.

[George]

@Mario: I just thought it was a thought-provoking article, and the first time I had heard of this. The WWI connection was the first thing I thought of. I likes me some history.

From reading only that article about this situation, I didn't get the impression that the current offer to Mexico is a serious one, but rather an, "Oh yeah? Well, what if we..."

And that has nothing to do with being high.

/looks for toker smilie...and leaves disappointed

[FaultyMario]

Not a long read, George. (http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/worldwari/p/zimmermann.htm)

[George]

Yes, I knew about the Zimmermann Telegram. Your link was the first I'd heard of the current Russia/Mexico thing. That's what I meant. I'm not a news junkie, so if that's old news, then shame on me.

[MR2 Fan]

Right wing state senators at it again, this lady wants to make going to church MANDATORY

http://www.kpho.com/story/28620533/az-senator-church-attendance-should-be-mandatory

[thesameguy]

I can't wait til 2100 when it's revealed the Modern Republican Party was just a hilarious mind control experiment. :up: "Let's see how many ridiculous things we can make these people say just by tugging at neurons."

[FaultyMario]

I figured.

What i meant to say was that back in WWI it was quickly decided that a major european was playing a bluff. With the Chechnyan situation I'm surprised there hasn't been a diplomatic 'eff off, you loonies' statement from my government.

[overpowered]

Lobbyist claims Monsanto weed killer is safe to drink, then bolts when TV host offers him a glass

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/lobbyist-claims-monsanto-weed-killer-is-safe-to-drink-then-bolts-when-tv-host-offers-him-a-glass/

[overpowered]

I wish this was real:

http://conservativefrontline.com/marcus-bachmann-refused-service-in-indiana-store-owner-assumed-he-was-gay/

[overpowered]

Keepin' it classy:

http://i2.wp.com/samuel-warde.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/www532.jpg

http://samuel-warde.com/2015/03/mone-davis-surprising-reaction-after-college-baseball-player-dismissed-for-calling-her/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo%27ne_Davis

[overpowered]

Two house bills to legalize/tax/regulate marijuana, treating it just like alcohol at the federal level:

http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/02/two-house-bills-would-legalize-it/

States will still be able to prohibit it but the DEA will no longer be involved with it, though I suppose the ATF might.

[LHutton]

Or the ATHF as it will then be known.

[overpowered]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10425495_827978513904496_8128318732326805526_n.jpg ?oh=c7383c208240014f5f8c94311476d8d6&oe=55A29B45&__gda__=1438508748_740c050097c35f4c6a69bda124e5e07 c

[thesameguy]

I think his logo is actually an American Fire burning heathens and minorities.

[Freude am Fahren]

Or it's a big ass drop of oil.

[21Kid]

http://www.tedcruz.com/

[LHutton]

^:lol:

[overpowered]

According to Ted (pants shitting chickenhawk) Nugent, the reason that veterans commit suicide is because Obama is president.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwkr-OsFyEY

[overpowered]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t34.0-12/11104017_1565876093668925_2128052394_n.jpg?oh=0947 5d0b85c3bef859b551101ef3e6a3&oe=55210B3C&__gda__=1428162440_4e5c648c70c5644ca33566fd665348d 8

[speedpimp]

Indiana passes changes to RFRA, Governor signs it into law. (http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/read-the-bill-introduced-to-clarify-indianas-rfra-law/32149558)

Also that pizza place is called Memories Pizza and it is located in Walkerton, Indiana. The town is always referred to as "Walkertucky". They closed (http://www.mediaite.com/online/indiana-pizzeria-caught-up-in-gay-marriage-controversy-closes-down-over-threats/) after they were inundated with all sorts of threats, including being robbed and burned to the ground. A local high school basketball coach has been suspended after she tweeted about going to Walkerton to "burn them down". Here (http://www.abc57.com/story/28696535/high-school-coach-suspended-after-tweet-about-pizzeria).

[LHutton]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t34.0-12/11104017_1565876093668925_2128052394_n.jpg?oh=0947 5d0b85c3bef859b551101ef3e6a3&oe=55210B3C&__gda__=1428162440_4e5c648c70c5644ca33566fd665348d 8
That poster is heterophobic.

[overpowered]

Teacher To Children: Your Parent ‘Is Not A Christian’ If They Support Obama

http://reverbpress.com/news/parents-not-a-christian-support-obama-teacher/

[Crazed_Insanity]

I often see places with signs saying 'we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone', is that a legal legit sign? If a minority felt discriminated against, can that sigh really cover the owner's ass? If it does, then such Indiana Law would be pretty redundant, right?

IMHO, the only legit reason for such indiana law to exist would be to protect ministers. Church/ministers probably shouldn't be forced by the government to perform wedding ceremonies for gay couples if they truly believe their God doesn't want such a practice. Other than that, at least for Christianity, I don't see anywhere in the bible where we ought not to serve or love other sinners. Now, if you're hardcore Jew who still believe in stoning sinners to death, that's where such religious freedom law's probably not a good idea!

Lastly, it's sad to see we have business owners who really don't want to profit from gays that much, it's also sad to see people would pile on hate on top of hate...

[speedpimp]

Billy/i, I think that sign is primarily aimed at people who are drunk or come in acting a fool.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I figured, but those signs usually aren't that specific, right? So, if a business owner decide to kick out a gay family from eating in his restaurant, I wonder if such a sign can cover his butt?

Anyway, IMHO, I have no issues with business owners posting such signs... even more 'explicit' signs. Whether it's gay or black or chinese or christians not welcomed. Personally, I'd rather they let me know up front rather than hide behind political correctness. Not that I'm going to burn their place down or anything like that... just so that I'd know where to stay away.

People do have different 'preferences'. If a restaurant owner really have a problem with serving a chinese guy or a christian guy like me, why should I be legally allowed to eat there and force the guy to serve me? He might add in some shit in my dish that I don't know just because he's so pissed about it! ;)

Anyway, yeah, I prefer transparency rather than political correctness. Of course, if possible, I'd most prefer to have everyone able to truly love being with one another... but that's just not possible.

[LHutton]

I figured, but those signs usually aren't that specific, right? So, if a business owner decide to kick out a gay family from eating in his restaurant, I wonder if such a sign can cover his butt?

Depends how big his butt is.

[kmatt]

I figured, but those signs usually aren't that specific, right? So, if a business owner decide to kick out a gay family from eating in his restaurant, I wonder if such a sign can cover his butt?

Anyway, IMHO, I have no issues with business owners posting such signs... even more 'explicit' signs. Whether it's gay or black or chinese or christians not welcomed. Personally, I'd rather they let me know up front rather than hide behind political correctness. Not that I'm going to burn their place down or anything like that... just so that I'd know where to stay away.

People do have different 'preferences'. If a restaurant owner really have a problem with serving a chinese guy or a christian guy like me, why should I be legally allowed to eat there and force the guy to serve me? He might add in some shit in my dish that I don't know just because he's so pissed about it! ;)

Anyway, yeah, I prefer transparency rather than political correctness. Of course, if possible, I'd most prefer to have everyone able to truly love being with one another... but that's just not possible.


The problem herein, is that businesses are provided tax benefits and liability protection from the gov't with the use of corporations and LLC's, etc. in exchange for serving the general public. If you want to discriminate, you must forfeit those benefits and run your business from private property for friends and family and such. If a person or family or closely held business is willing to do that, go right ahead.

[FaultyMario]

How long till RFRA is challenged in a constitutional court?
In that case, are the Law's effects suspended?

[speedpimp]

Indiana passes changes to RFRA, Governor signs it into law. (http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/read-the-bill-introduced-to-clarify-indianas-rfra-law/32149558)

Also that pizza place is called Memories Pizza and it is located in Walkerton, Indiana. The town is always referred to as "Walkertucky". They closed (http://www.mediaite.com/online/indiana-pizzeria-caught-up-in-gay-marriage-controversy-closes-down-over-threats/) after they were inundated with all sorts of threats, including being robbed and burned to the ground. A local high school basketball coach has been suspended after she tweeted about going to Walkerton to "burn them down". Here (http://www.abc57.com/story/28696535/high-school-coach-suspended-after-tweet-about-pizzeria).


Mario, above.


Also the owners of the pizzeria have gotten over $600k in donations and have gone into hiding.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The problem herein, is that businesses are provided tax benefits and liability protection from the gov't with the use of corporations and LLC's, etc. in exchange for serving the general public. If you want to discriminate, you must forfeit those benefits and run your business from private property for friends and family and such. If a person or family or closely held business is willing to do that, go right ahead.

I'm not sure what you mean by tax benefits or protections...Most businesses are private on private property and pay taxes. Yeah, we're all protected by the arm forces so that Mexico cannot invade us by force. Yeah, there's also fire and police department watching over us... We also have public roads and whatever other infrastructures available to make businesses possible, but I still don't agree all private businesses absolutely must serve "everyone".

Most businesses have a very specific clientele anyway. Yeah, Coke and McDonalds would want to sell to everyone, but is a beauty salon discriminating against guys? How about Victoria's Secret also make men's lingerie in order to satisfy everyone? ;) How about forcing NBA to hire more non-black players that more resembles current population? And is Ferrari discriminating against poor people? Should they work harder at producing cheaper Ferraris for the masses?

So there'll always be some level of 'discrimination' going on with private businesses and that's not always a bad thing.

I think we just need to make sure government agencies or public places do not discriminate, as for this Indiana law... what a waste of time. In the end, it didn't protect the stupid pizza place from shutting its doors, right? Those law makers really should spend their time tackling on real issues...

As Speedpimp's linked story shows, let these businesses do their PR or marketing however they want. They might make a few bucks in the short term, but chances are, the public sentiment will either cause them to change their attitudes or cause them to close shop anyway. Lawmakers really should have much better laws to pass than something like this.

[speedpimp]

One unintended consequence of RFRA...Sharia Law (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/03/next-we-muslims-bring-sharia-to-indiana.html).

[Dicknose]

There is a big difference between making a product that only some people may want and making a product and deciding that some people can't buy it.

[overpowered]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2015/04/03/396975867/why-does-the-war-on-drugs-persist


I was chatting with a friend who works as a physician at a large California state prison. He mentioned, in passing, that drug use is pretty widespread at the prison. If you can't prohibit the sale and use of drugs in a maximum security prison, he asked, what are the chances you can prohibit drugs on our streets?

[LHutton]

There is a big difference between making a product that only some people may want and making a product and deciding that some people can't buy it.
Happens with limited edition, high-end cars all the time. The only difference is the rationale for discrimination.

[Jason]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2015/04/03/396975867/why-does-the-war-on-drugs-persist

The "war on drugs" is very much a large money laundering scheme.

[LHutton]

In related news:

http://www.vice.com/read/new-report-says-dea-agents-held-sex-parties-with-prostitutes-paid-for-by-colombian-drug-cartels-326?utm_source=vicefbus


New Report Says ​DEA Agents Held Sex Parties with Prostitutes Paid for by Colombian Drug Cartels

[Freude am Fahren]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2015/04/03/396975867/why-does-the-war-on-drugs-persist

They want them to stay or, even better, get hooked so that when they're released, they get picked back up and put back in. $$$$

[TheBenior]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2015/04/03/396975867/why-does-the-war-on-drugs-persist

I'm in favor of some drug decriminalization, but couldn't one say the same of murder?

[FaultyMario]

Mario, above.



That article doesn't mention any challenges to the law. I'd expect the ACLU or someone like that to have a boxes full of arguments waiting to be clerk'd in at the SCOTUS.

And I don't know if once a bill is signed into a law and it's challenged in court what happens...

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/l/t1.0-9/20202_830886293613718_1496114971547270452_n.jpg?oh =c5c11e7a73b01eefc37eab7dc3e29880&oe=55B8F2FC

[LHutton]

To me it just seems like a load of really dumb businesses are going to lose customers, let 'em.

[thesameguy]

In the past, "majority" businesses refusing to serve minority customers could result in minorities between unable to get serviced anywhere. These days, I gotta wonder if society had reached a point where it's the business that would suffer. I hope so, and to some extent I'd love to put it to the test. There have been plenty examples of stupid prejudiced things happening and internet-fueled outrage resulting in hilarious/catastrophic fallout and that gives me hope - but it'd be a hell of a thing to have go wrong.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think it's kinda hard to say at the moment. Take the chick filet example, secular folks condemned them for them being outspoken against gay marriage(I don't think their CEO believe it's necessary to stop serving gays chicken sandwiches, just that he believes gay marriage is wrong). For such a stance, 1 group of folks began to boycott the chain and the hardcore christians end up giving it extra support. In the end, it was increased business for the chain.

I think the same is happening with that Indiana pizzeria. In the end they end up raising more money than selling pizzas, but they still end up closing up shop anyway.

Anyway, as a Christian, I really don't think majority of Christians are really that hateful. As seen from some news show a few years back..., they try to film diner customer responses by having a gay family being criticized by a seemingly bigoted waitress. They filmed the same scene in Texas and in New York. It turned out, people in NY typically just shut their mouths and mind their own business whereas people in Texas almost always have somebody end up speaking out against the bigoted waitress! Of course, occasionally you'd find some custermers saying amen with the bigoted waitress actress, but I think people mostly just want the waitress to shut the fuck up and quit being so judgmental.

So do you want to live in a liberal state where people would speak out passionately for gay marriage, yet do very little to actually get their hands dirty to intervene against such injustice....

Or would you live in a seemingly conservative crazy bible belt state who'd actively step in to stop injustices from occurring?

Anyway, with a little bit more love, we can make ideologies disappear. Based on that staged diner story, I can safely conclude that there's more loving in Texas than in NY.

[neanderthal]

I think it's kinda hard to say at the moment. Take the chick filet example, secular folks condemned them for them being outspoken against gay marriage(I don't think their CEO believe it's necessary to stop serving gays chicken sandwiches, just that he believes gay marriage is wrong). For such a stance, 1 group of folks began to boycott the chain and the hardcore christians end up giving it extra support. In the end, it was increased business for the chain.

I think the same is happening with that Indiana pizzeria. In the end they end up raising more money than selling pizzas, but they still end up closing up shop anyway.

Anyway, as a Christian, I really don't think majority of Christians are really that hateful. As seen from some news show a few years back..., they try to film diner customer responses by having a gay family being criticized by a seemingly bigoted waitress. They filmed the same scene in Texas and in New York. It turned out, people in NY typically just shut their mouths and mind their own business whereas people in Texas almost always have somebody end up speaking out against the bigoted waitress! Of course, occasionally you'd find some custermers saying amen with the bigoted waitress actress, but I think people mostly just want the waitress to shut the fuck up and quit being so judgmental.

So do you want to live in a liberal state where people would speak out passionately for gay marriage, yet do very little to actually get their hands dirty to intervene against such injustice....

Or would you live in a seemingly conservative crazy bible belt state who'd actively step in to stop injustices from occurring?

Anyway, with a little bit more love, we can make ideologies disappear. Based on that staged diner story, I can safely conclude that there's more loving in Texas than in NY.

And your deduction is utter bullshit. Actually, it might be in the rareified air of unicorn grade bullshit.

That is not a scientific basis at all. repeat the experiment, many times over, in more than one location of each of New York and Texas, then a conclusion can be drawn.

To be fair, choosing New York is already adding a bias to it as a bastion of liberal freedoms. There are youtube videos of people just taking a dump in the street with no on batting an eye.

[neanderthal]

I'm not saying you were making a scientific observation. I am doubting the veracity of your claim.

[thesameguy]

You are doubting the veracity of a supposition based on supposition? WTF?

[thesameguy]

I think it's kinda hard to say at the moment. Take the chick filet example, secular folks condemned them for them being outspoken against gay marriage(I don't think their CEO believe it's necessary to stop serving gays chicken sandwiches, just that he believes gay marriage is wrong). For such a stance, 1 group of folks began to boycott the chain and the hardcore christians end up giving it extra support. In the end, it was increased business for the chain.

Definitely true - and that's the nature of the risk IMHO. You could put Hobby Lobby and to some degree In & Out on that list too. I won't set foot in a Chick-Fil-A or a Hobby Lobby, but I occasionally eat at In & Out. The second they profess support for some idiot ideal and go beyond messages on the bottoms of their cups our relationship will be over. People are entitled to their beliefs and I won't get in anybody's face for offering their belief to me but the SECOND they put money - especially my money - into enforcing their beliefs on other people we can't be friends anymore.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm not making a scientific claim, nor is that TV news claiming that they're making scientific experiements..., but here's the clip of what happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhl9MLno424

[Crazed_Insanity]

Definitely true - and that's the nature of the risk IMHO. You could put Hobby Lobby and to some degree In & Out on that list too. I won't set foot in a Chick-Fil-A or a Hobby Lobby, but I occasionally eat at In & Out. The second they profess support for some idiot ideal and go beyond messages on the bottoms of their cups our relationship will be over. People are entitled to their beliefs and I won't get in anybody's face for offering their belief to me but the SECOND they put money - especially my money - into enforcing their beliefs on other people we can't be friends anymore.

In&out has always stayed out of controversies I think. They only put money on printing bible verse # under neath their cups or other packaging, but they're never that in your face about it.

IMHO, business owners CEOs should definitely be allowed whatever they want to believe. If they truly believe Bible is telling them that gay marriage is wrong, I have no problem with that. I only have problem if they actually will stop serving gay people. I have no problem with chick filet, but I do have a problem with that Pizzeria. But whatever, let 'natural selection' or God's intervention work out by themselves. Business owners should be allowed to do business however they want and I can choose to do my business with whoever I want.

Similarly, I won't choose to eat or not eat at a place simply because it's a red/blue restaurant. If they have a good product with great value, I couldn't care less what they believe in. Unless I find out they're doing something horrible with the profit that they're making... by simply saying they're for or against something, I have no issues with that.

[neanderthal]

Here's my thing about this whole mess of religious freedom.

If you won't serve homosexuals, then don't serve divorcees. Men who have shaved their bears. Anyone that has touched pork. People wearing clothes made of two different fabrics. Women on their period. Philistines. And Rob!

[neanderthal]

You are doubting the veracity of a supposition based on supposition? WTF?

YES!

Don't logic my logic with logic. You'll hurt yourself. :lol:

[TheBenior]

Men who have shaved their bears.

But he's so much scarier this way.

https://i.imgur.com/EqDGT.jpg

[speedpimp]

LOL

[JoshInKC]

Jesus, that is upsetting. The eyes especially.

[overpowered]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225042/Germanys-bald-bears-Fur-disease-afflicts-Dolores-baffles-vets.html

[overpowered]

In the past, "majority" businesses refusing to serve minority customers could result in minorities between unable to get serviced anywhere. These days, I gotta wonder if society had reached a point where it's the business that would suffer. I hope so, and to some extent I'd love to put it to the test.Most gay people are not obviously gay so in most cases, it wouldn't be an issue. Of course when you're talking about supplying a gay wedding or a gay party or something, then you could run into issues with those businesses.

It sickens me that so many people donated money to the pizza bigots. There are a lot of really shitty people in this country.

[kmatt]

I'm not sure what you mean by tax benefits or protections...Most businesses are private on private property and pay taxes. Yeah, we're all protected by the arm forces so that Mexico cannot invade us by force. Yeah, there's also fire and police department watching over us... We also have public roads and whatever other infrastructures available to make businesses possible, but I still don't agree all private businesses absolutely must serve "everyone".

Most businesses have a very specific clientele anyway. Yeah, Coke and McDonalds would want to sell to everyone, but is a beauty salon discriminating against guys? How about Victoria's Secret also make men's lingerie in order to satisfy everyone? ;) How about forcing NBA to hire more non-black players that more resembles current population? And is Ferrari discriminating against poor people? Should they work harder at producing cheaper Ferraris for the masses?

So there'll always be some level of 'discrimination' going on with private businesses and that's not always a bad thing.

I think we just need to make sure government agencies or public places do not discriminate, as for this Indiana law... what a waste of time. In the end, it didn't protect the stupid pizza place from shutting its doors, right? Those law makers really should spend their time tackling on real issues...

As Speedpimp's linked story shows, let these businesses do their PR or marketing however they want. They might make a few bucks in the short term, but chances are, the public sentiment will either cause them to change their attitudes or cause them to close shop anyway. Lawmakers really should have much better laws to pass than something like this.

What in the world?

Do you not understand what liability protections are?
Do you not understand the specific benefits of the government recognizing your business as a separate entity from your self?

If you don't understand that very simple concept, you really don't need to be discussing any business-related politics.

[kmatt]

Most gay people are not obviously gay so in most cases, it wouldn't be an issue. Of course when you're talking about supplying a gay wedding or a gay party or something, then you could run into issues with those businesses.

It sickens me that so many people donated money to the pizza bigots. There are a lot of really shitty people in this country.

I'm sure that everyone who donated to that pizza place has donated hundreds of thousands to very Christian-like causes like food banks and shelters.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Here's my thing about this whole mess of religious freedom.

If you won't serve homosexuals, then don't serve divorcees. Men who have shaved their bears. Anyone that has touched pork. People wearing clothes made of two different fabrics. Women on their period. Philistines. And Rob!

Definitely true if you're a conservative Jew. However, not really applicable for Christians though. At least my interpretations of it... I can understand why some Christians don't support gay marriage, but not serving gays should clearly be a violation of what Jesus has taught.

I don't know anything about the bear part. Not sure that kind of animal abuse should be tolerated at all! :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

What in the world?

Do you not understand what liability protections are?
Do you not understand the specific benefits of the government recognizing your business as a separate entity from your self?

If you don't understand that very simple concept, you really don't need to be discussing any business-related politics.

I'm not here to discuss legal mumbo jumbo. All I was saying is that private businesses shouldn't be micro-managed by govts. Govts should not tell businesses who they should or should not serve provided that they don't violate any existing laws. If a business really doesn't want to do business with gays or whoever, they can easily come up with excuses to get themselves out of it. Whether its pointing to the sign of reserving the right to refuse service... or just pretend that you're all booked up. If servicing 'sinners' really bothers you that much, you really should consider leaving the service industry rather than relying on that Indiana law! Anyway, bottomline is that there's just no need for such Indiana law.

The only exception is perhaps protecting churches from being forced to perform gay marriages. Government better not force closure of churches who refuse to minister to gays that way. And for that particular instance, I'm sure churches are already covered under existing freedom of religion laws in the constitution.

Anyway, your horse must be very tall, huh? Sorry I'm so uneducated. You don't have to discuss anything with me if you don't want to. I certainly don't want to hurt your neck while you're looking down on me! :p


I'm sure that everyone who donated to that pizza place has donated hundreds of thousands to very Christian-like causes like food banks and shelters.
That I can be pretty sure. Christians do often like to stick with other brothers and sisters especially when they stand up for what they believe in. That's how chick filet and similar other businesses end up gaining business. I'm sure the truly hateful homophobes would only clap in agreement with the pizzeria owner, but would never actually send in any money or offer any real support when that business owner end up suffering. Yeah, and please don't think of all the financial support is given for their seemingly hateful stance, I'm sure a lot of it is to help them to somehow get back on their feet when their store is getting mobbed.

[overpowered]

Snitches get stitches:

Man Imprisoned After Filming Eric Garner’s Death, Refusing to Eat, Rat Poison Found in Jail Food

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/man-jailed-filming-eric-garners-death-eat-rat-poison-prisons-food/

[overpowered]

Remember that Arizona state senator who wanted to make church attendance mandatory?

She introduced a bill to make it harder to prosecute law enforcement officers for misconduct after her son-in-law faced charges for trading cigarettes to a female inmate at the jail where he worked in exchange for a blowjob.

http://www.azjournal.com/2015/03/25/senator-allen-comes-under-fire-for-actions-surrounding-sb1467/

[overpowered]

21 Truths That Prove Republicans Have Been Wrong About Everything

http://jeff61b.hubpages.com/hub/21-TruthsThat-Prove-Republicans-Have-Been-Wrong-About-Everything

[thesameguy]

What in the world?

Do you not understand what liability protections are?
Do you not understand the specific benefits of the government recognizing your business as a separate entity from your self?

If you don't understand that very simple concept, you really don't need to be discussing any business-related politics.

I think you may need to do some additional research on US law. The government does not necessarily recognize a business separately from its ownership - the only time a business takes on any legal standing in the eyes of the government is if it has been incorporated. Any other type of business is legally an extension of its ownership - anything that happens in the course of business is directly attributable to its owners and they may be held liable for it. Even in the case of corporations, while the corporation is a distinct entity in the eyes of the law, there is a legal mechanism called "piercing the corporate veil" which allows a wronged party to hold the ownership accountable for the actions of the corporation, in exactly the same way you'd hold parents accountable for the actions of a child. Piercing the corporate veil can be difficult in well-run corporations, but especially in the case of small ones it's typically not that difficult - for example, if there is a sole shareholder of the corporation and that shareholder is actively involved in running the business, it's easy to make the case that the corporation is not sufficiently distinct from its ownership to warrant corporate protections. We just handled a case where a corporation had definably insufficient insurance to reasonably cover the risks involved in it doing business and the judge let us pierce the veil and go after the ownership. Happens all the time.

Maybe before getting snotty with people you should be sure what you're saying is accurate.

[kmatt]

I'm not here to discuss legal mumbo jumbo.

Except you're in a political thread. Which is going to contain discussion of "legal mumbo jumbo" by nature. That's what politics are, exactly.


That I can be pretty sure. Christians do often like to stick with other brothers and sisters especially when they stand up for what they believe in. That's how chick filet and similar other businesses end up gaining business. I'm sure the truly hateful homophobes would only clap in agreement with the pizzeria owner, but would never actually send in any money or offer any real support when that business owner end up suffering. Yeah, and please don't think of all the financial support is given for their seemingly hateful stance, I'm sure a lot of it is to help them to somehow get back on their feet when their store is getting mobbed.

I am Christian. Presbyterian. I live in an area of the country that is chock full of southern and missionary baptists, many of whom don't even know the actual story of Jesus and the Resurrection. 100% serious. I guarantee you that 95% of the people, at least in this part of the country, that went to Chick-Fil-A on that one day, or donated money to that pizza parlor (two vastly different actions in my eyes) have not given money to their local food bank or volunteered at a shelter or any of these things, unless it was directly through their church in some isolated fashion.

Chick-Fil-A simply has an owner who gave his own money to right wing groups that were known for being extremely anti-gay. People attempted a boycott, others... for reasons that mostly didn't cover their own religious beliefs, reacted by going to the restaurants on that day. Chick-fil-a never, as a business, discriminated against anyone.

The pizza place explicitly said they would not serve gays if given the right to. People donated money in support of that cause. It originated from a contributor to Glenn Beck's site The Blaze, so the intent is pretty clear.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So you're saying unless you're a lawyer or at have some basic sense of how law works, otherwise people like me shouldn't engage in any political discussions whatsoever? And if I ignore your warning, is there a law against people like me discussing politics? If not, what gives you the right to tell me to bug off? Can you lighten up a little? :p It's not like I'm actually a lawmaker working in Congress. You cannot give a lay person some break to make some comments on the fucking internet? Gee.

Anyway, none of us have proof of exactly how much money Christians have donated to the poor and needy. You also know there's no way you can make any guarantees regarding 95% of folks donating/giving the money are all bigoted assholes. You are free to look at your brothers and sisters in disgust for believing what they believe in or doing what they're doing, that is certainly your right. Fundamentally, I don't think we disagree regarding this Indiana law, but for some reason you just want to argue against me for arguments sake. Whatever.

Like the video I posted earlier, people in bible belt Texas react more warmly than folker in liberal urban settings. Again, no, that video is not a scientific fact and doesn't prove anything except the fact that people who live in bible belt areas are not all dumb ass anti gay bigots... and I'm glad that's news show renew some hope for me. Anyway, you probably live in those areas, maybe that TV show was just a fluke. If your faith or people who believe in your faith disgust you so much, maybe it's time to move on... or perhaps you can pray for those poor souls. I hope it'll be the later.

Actually, I'd highly encourage you to become a pastor or some sort of educator in your area. It's so sad that there are so many people there who claim to be Christians but don't know the story of Christ. Something is fucking wrong over there! :p

Anyway, I'm not from those areas, so I don't really know. If your claim is true, then Jesus is basically tainted or blamed for a bunch of folks who don't really know Christ! Christianity or religion in general is basically being blamed unfairly because of bunch of dumb fucks. So if you don't want to become a pastor, then maybe you can become a teacher? ;) Last piece of advise, when talking to dumb fucks like me, it'll certainly help if you get off your high horse first. Otherwise you might end up straining your neck! :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

Snitches get stitches:

Man Imprisoned After Filming Eric Garner’s Death, Refusing to Eat, Rat Poison Found in Jail Food

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/man-jailed-filming-eric-garners-death-eat-rat-poison-prisons-food/

Is this prison located in Cuba or something? I find it difficult to believe this story can be real. If it is indeed real, something better be done about it rather than just a story being recirculated around the internet...

As for that Arizona senator, maybe she was just returning some favors after receiving a blowjob?

Lastly, 21 possible truths doesn't prove Republicans are wrong about everything. Take the war on terror for example... it was also democrat approved to go in and find that WMD. You can't all agree to do something... then upon realizing that it was a bad decision and then blame it all on the other guy as if you don't share any responsibility?

Wherever did you find all these sensational stories?

Remember, it's the extreme ideology, the us vs them concept that enables division, violence, hatred...

I'm sure not all cops and prison guards are evil. I'm sure there are respectable Republicans somewhere... ;)

[neanderthal]

Is this prison located in Cuba or something? I find it difficult to believe this story can be real. If it is indeed real, something better be done about it rather than just a story being recirculated around the internet...

As for that Arizona senator, maybe she was just returning some favors after receiving a blowjob?

Lastly, 21 possible truths doesn't prove Republicans are wrong about everything. Take the war on terror for example... it was also democrat approved to go in and find that WMD. You can't all agree to do something... then upon realizing that it was a bad decision and then blame it all on the other guy as if you don't share any responsibility?

Wherever did you find all these sensational stories?

Remember, it's the extreme ideology, the us vs them concept that enables division, violence, hatred...

I'm sure not all cops and prison guards are evil. I'm sure there are respectable Republicans somewhere... ;)

Those 21 truths show that Republicans are poor at making projections.

Scratch that. VERY POOR.

[kmatt]

So you're saying unless you're a lawyer or at have some basic sense of how law works, otherwise people like me shouldn't engage in any political discussions whatsoever?

Protection from liability in the form of corporations and LLC's is not lawyer speak, and is not "law mumbo jumbo."
Otherwise, yes. If one wants to involve themselves in political discussions, especially pertaining to specific laws or concepts, they should have some basic sense of how or why it works.

That's just commonsense.

Otherwise, it's a poor, useless, uninformed aspect of the discussion.

[overpowered]

Those 21 truths show that Republicans are poor at making projections.

Scratch that. VERY POOR.Their projects aren't based upon macroeconomics. They are based upon making sure that rich people don't have to pay taxes.

[LHutton]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/08/us/south-carolina-officer-charged-with-murder/index.html

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2811624/images/r-WALTER-SCOTT-huge.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Protection from liability in the form of corporations and LLC's is not lawyer speak, and is not "law mumbo jumbo."
Otherwise, yes. If one wants to involve themselves in political discussions, especially pertaining to specific laws or concepts, they should have some basic sense of how or why it works.

That's just commonsense.

Otherwise, it's a poor, useless, uninformed aspect of the discussion.

Common sense? Really? We are suppose to know about 'protection from liability' naturally somehow? Interesting.

Anyway, so basically in a political discussion, the know it all wins automatically? The most informed can just tell the less informed to shut the fuck up and you don't know what you're talking about and case closed? Can the most informed educate the less informed before telling them to shut the fuck up?

Can you educate me exactly how is 'protection from liability' has anything to do with that Indiana freedom of religion law? Exactly what is the point you're trying to get across here? BTW, I'm against that Indiana law. Can you show me where did I go wrong with my political commentary by failing to think of 'protection from liability'?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Their projects aren't based upon macroeconomics. They are based upon making sure that rich people don't have to pay taxes.

Anyway OP, I'm not politically affiliated with any party... and I don't like most things republicans have to offer too, but I just wish to remind you to not to get too stuck in the us vs them mentality. I know they have no problems dehumanizing liberals and the poor and the gays and the terrorists, but we certainly don't have to be like them.

[overpowered]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/09/us/walter-scott-shooting-video-stopped-case-from-being-swept-under-rug-family-says.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2c5OiWZfl0

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow! 8 times?!?!?

[overpowered]

The Saudis seem to have declared war on shale, tar sands and fracking.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/07/news/economy/oil-prices-jobs-unemployment/index.html

[overpowered]

Wow! 8 times?!?!?Yep. This time the cop actually got arrested. We'll see how the prosecution goes though.

[LHutton]

Seems he also moved the taser (seen falling behind him on video) to right next to where the victim went down and tried claiming self-defense.:smh:

[TheBenior]

If a shooting is justified, it doesn't matter if a cop shoots 1 time or 15 times.

However, judging by the video, this shooting does not appear justified. Even if Scott had obtained the taser, shooting couldn't be justified unless it still has a live cartridge in it, or if his warrant was for murder/attempt murder instead of unpaid child support. The officer nonchalantly dropping the taser by Scott's body is pretty damning.

The best case scenario (and we're talking last-second hail-mary likelihood here) for the officer would be official misconduct for tampering with evidence.

[thesameguy]

Protection from liability in the form of corporations and LLC's is not lawyer speak, and is not "law mumbo jumbo."
Otherwise, yes. If one wants to involve themselves in political discussions, especially pertaining to specific laws or concepts, they should have some basic sense of how or why it works.

That's just commonsense.

Otherwise, it's a poor, useless, uninformed aspect of the discussion.

Commonsense like common sense is two words? Or common sense in understanding what the actual purpose and nature of a corporation is? Or common sense in knowing that the status of a business has absolutely no bearing on its ability to discriminate based on protected classes as defined by the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

Hint: You are completely and utterly wrong.

[kmatt]

Common sense? Really? We are suppose to know about 'protection from liability' naturally somehow? Interesting.

Anyway, so basically in a political discussion, the know it all wins automatically? The most informed can just tell the less informed to shut the fuck up and you don't know what you're talking about and case closed? Can the most informed educate the less informed before telling them to shut the fuck up?

Can you educate me exactly how is 'protection from liability' has anything to do with that Indiana freedom of religion law? Exactly what is the point you're trying to get across here? BTW, I'm against that Indiana law. Can you show me where did I go wrong with my political commentary by failing to think of 'protection from liability'?

You have no idea what a corporation or an LLC is?

It basically means when your business fails, or goes "bankrupt" (don't know if that term is above your head or not), that the other businesses or people that your business owes money to can't come after your own personal assets.

I hope that wasn't too much legal mumbo jumbo for you, but this is stuff that was taught in basic high school business class in south Arkansas.

I forget how much of a natural troll you are.

[Freude am Fahren]

If a shooting is justified, it doesn't matter if a cop shoots 1 time or 15 times.

Seriously curious, are cops ever trained to shoot to wound, such as a leg shot? I would guess with tasers and pepper spray, that's not something that would be needed often.

[kmatt]

Commonsense like common sense is two words? Or common sense in understanding what the actual purpose and nature of a corporation is? Or common sense in knowing that the status of a business has absolutely no bearing on its ability to discriminate based on protected classes as defined by the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

Hint: You are completely and utterly wrong.

sigh

That's absolutely not the point I was making, originally.
The rest of the discussion was just ridiculous.

It's been a while since I bit a C_I hook. My bad.

[TheBenior]

No, for a couple of reasons.

#1 is that firearms are to be used to prevent death/great bodily harm or the escape of an individual who has either committed/attempted to inflict death/potential great bodily harm or is fleeing with a deadly weapon.

#2 is that it's just not practical from an aiming standpoint, and an armed individual (not in this case of course) shot in the leg still prevents a threat. Hitting a person in the chest in a high-stress situation is hard enough (dramatically more so than a static piece of paper that poses no possible threat to you), let alone a much smaller leg moving more rapidly. Police departments generally barely do more than the minimum level of training because it's expensive. Ammunition costs, range fees/maintenance, and training costs add up, whether we're talking private instructors or dedicated range staff (who aren't on the street answering calls). In either case, officers in training aren't on the street answering calls for the day.

[Freude am Fahren]

That's about what I figured.

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10255021_403834926465688_1271648544617061168_n.jpg ?oh=3ac14f9dc403c1705797b183434cadeb&oe=55A606C3

[LHutton]

Seriously curious, are cops ever trained to shoot?
I think this is the more valid question given the 8 shots fired at 10 yards range.

[neanderthal]

Just wanted to point out that prior to the video surfacing, this cop, his lawyer AND his department were all reciting the standard "he feared for his life" bullshit that every cop who shoots someone says.
And, dollars to donuts, without the video, nothing would have changed the outcome of a "justified homicide" ruling in that instance. Nothing.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You have no idea what a corporation or an LLC is?

It basically means when your business fails, or goes "bankrupt" (don't know if that term is above your head or not), that the other businesses or people that your business owes money to can't come after your own personal assets.

I hope that wasn't too much legal mumbo jumbo for you, but this is stuff that was taught in basic high school business class in south Arkansas.

I forget how much of a natural troll you are.

There was no business class back in high school that I remember. Nice to know Arkansas is so awesome.

Look. I don't fucking care what a corporation is. I was talking about Indiana's stupid law. What exactly is the point you're trying to make here?

That I'm a troll because I have no legal/business commonsense?

So obviously you do have such commonsense, but what have you contributed to the political discussion?

Care to take a look in the mirror before you label other people? What kind of asshole christian are you? You are indeed very bad. Next time try not to read my posts. Lots of people have such commonesense.... What's wrong with you? :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just wanted to point out that prior to the video surfacing, this cop, his lawyer AND his department were all reciting the standard "he feared for his life" bullshit that every cop who shoots someone says.
And, dollars to donuts, without the video, nothing would have changed the outcome of a "justified homicide" ruling in that instance. Nothing.

Even without the video, 8 fucking shots in the back? Was the officer afraid of the stinky fart the suspect is about to make? If autopsy report cannot yield true justice and must rely on some video, something is also wrong with the justice system, not just the police. Police can only act like this when they know the judges will always be on their side when it's their words against the dead guy's.

[kmatt]

What exactly is the point you're trying to make here?
Allow me to cut through all of that other bullshit.

I was responding to your opinion that any business should serve who they want.
My point was that when you reap the benefits of how you structure your business, especially through a corporation or LLC, you have an obligation to serve the general public. Your business is available to anyone. In my opinion, if you only want to serve who you want, then you need to set up a simple proprietorship and only serve friends and family.


All of this is foreign to me, because I'm a whore for money and I'd sell my wares to whoever the hell wanted to throw a dollar down. Everyone has their price.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Most are indeed whores for money, but certainly not all.

The question I have is that are you sure businesses are truly legally bound to serve all customers with money? Why do we even need a law to force us to be money whores?

My position remains that we don't need laws telling businesses how to serve or not serve. As long as they don't hurt people, why not allow them the freedom to run their own business? Their decision will ultimately decide whether they prosper or fold.

[thesameguy]

Allow me to cut through all of that other bullshit.
My point was that when you reap the benefits of how you structure your business, especially through a corporation or LLC, you have an obligation to serve the general public. Your business is available to anyone. In my opinion, if you only want to serve who you want, then you need to set up a simple proprietorship and only serve friends and family.

The point you are trying to make is in factual error. It is the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which prohibits discrimination of privately held places of public accommodation based on protected classes. The Federal law missed some classes - notably sexual orientation - which has been addressed by some, but not all states. In some states, it is legal (because it is not illegal) to refuse service to someone who is gay. Related, because a corporation is a structure defined by state law and not Federal law (ever wonder why everyone incorporates in South Dakota?) the Federal Civil Rights Act does not discriminate between proprietorships and corporations. It has no ability to do so.

Corporations have no "social obligations" that a sole proprietorship does not. I think you are getting confused with the historical definition of a corporation - a group of people ("shareholders") granted certain rights to fulfill a public need, such as road-building, in exchange for the ability to profit. Those historical qualities have not been true of corporations since the Depression era, and really not true since the Civil War era when the whole system was fully and completely fucked over. The current definition and purpose of a corporation is, at it's core, a structure designed to shield its shareholders from direct taxation and certain types of liabilities while granting the structure certain abilities (and requirements) based on its "natural personhood." That's about it.

By cutting through the bullshit, you have indeed delved into more bullshit of your own devising. For clarity, it is Federal law that defines what a place of public accommodation can and cannot do. It is state law which defines business structures. The two have absolutely no relationship with each other.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Fuck! So now this has turned into a legal discussion! My brain is hurting...

Can we just go back to political discussions?

Anyway, interesting info BTW, I had been wondering why so many freaking giant companies are in South Dakota. What a hot bed for businesses! ;)

[thesameguy]

If you want to talk politics, let's talk about the corruption of the corporation and the horrific effect the result has had on the American political system! Fun fact: When the laws governing the formation and activity of corporations were made, many if not most included verbiage prohibiting the corporation from using money to influence politics or lawmaking. Following the Civil War, when corporations were coming under heavy fire corporate directors employed people to secretly infiltrate lawmaking bodies and help get laws passed that not only favored corporations, but also to direct Federal money towards them for "projects." These people were called borers and they are in a lot of ways the forebears of modern-day lobbyists. It was during this time that corporations were granted many of the powers that they enjoy today, many of their historic limitations were eliminated, and they were assigned the explicit nature of personhood.

[overpowered]

At least this time it's a white guy. A criminal who's running gets tazed, realizes he's done and lays face down on the ground, spread eagle at first but then puts his hands behind him in position to be cuffed.

Deputies then proceed to beat and kick him for two minutes:

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/04/southern-california-deputies-caught-on-video-beating-surrendering-man-for-more-than-two-minutes/

[overpowered]

https://www.change.org/p/judge-says-child-rapist-didn-t-mean-to-hurt-the-3-year-old-toddler-he-sodomized


A convicted child rapist didn't mean to hurt the toddler he sodomized. The rapist didn't commit an act of violence. The child rapist didn't callously disregard the three year old he anally raped. At least, that's what Judge M. Marc Kelly of Orange County Superior Court in California would have you believe.:down:
:mad:

[thesameguy]

At least this time it's a white guy. A criminal who's running gets tazed, realizes he's done and lays face down on the ground, spread eagle at first but then puts his hands behind him in position to be cuffed.

Deputies then proceed to beat and kick him for two minutes:

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/04/southern-california-deputies-caught-on-video-beating-surrendering-man-for-more-than-two-minutes/

THAT'LL LEARN HIM!

[thesameguy]

https://www.change.org/p/judge-says-child-rapist-didn-t-mean-to-hurt-the-3-year-old-toddler-he-sodomized

:down:
:mad:

I thought the point of mandatory sentences was that nobody could overrule them? Isn't that the exact problem with all the pot smokers doing serious time?

[overpowered]

Dashcam footage of the traffic stop that led to the murder of Walter Scott.

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/04/dash-cam-footage-released-in-walter-scotts-traffic-stop-that-led-to-his-death/

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-LbFfrpqiw

[Crazed_Insanity]

At least this time it's a white guy. A criminal who's running gets tazed, realizes he's done and lays face down on the ground, spread eagle at first but then puts his hands behind him in position to be cuffed.

Deputies then proceed to beat and kick him for two minutes:

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/04/southern-california-deputies-caught-on-video-beating-surrendering-man-for-more-than-two-minutes/

I think this proves Rodney King wasn't beaten because he's black. There's just something about leading police on a chase. It tends to piss police off. They rather enjoy their donut and coffee, but if you made them run after you... you're gonna get it. Either punches or kicks or tasers or perhaps even bullets!

[Tom Servo]

Correlation != Causation

[Crazed_Insanity]

I thought the point of mandatory sentences was that nobody could overrule them? Isn't that the exact problem with all the pot smokers doing serious time?

If I catch a guy raping a 3yr old, assuming I'm big enough to overtake the guy, I'd have no problems beating the crap out of him and possibly even kill him in the heat of passion and end up realizing that I didn't really mean to hurt him...

As to try to come up with appropriate # of years to lock him up... I dunno... what difference does it make 10 or 25 yrs? If we can treat his 'condition', then wouldn't it be better to force him to be treated rather than wasting prison money? If no viable treatments can be found, then just cut his dick off to be sure he won't succumb to his urges ever again...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Correlation != Causation

So what do you think caused the beating?

What's wrong with people like kmatt and you? If you don't like to read my posts then don't read it. Is that difficult to do?

[George]

There's just something about leading police on a chase. It tends to piss police off. They rather enjoy their donut and coffee, but if you made them run after you... you're gonna get it. Either punches or kicks or tasers or perhaps even bullets!

Now that I've seen both the cell-phone video of the shooting and the dash cam video of the North Charleston killing, I have a few thoughts, and then I'm going to post a video that I think is both funny and TRUE.

Nobody deserves to get gunned down like this latest guy, especially in both videos when we can see he's hardly a fast sprinter...more like a casual jogger. Why couldn't the cop have run him down, tackled him from behind and cuffed him? If the cop is too fat or too slow to have caught this guy on foot, he shouldn't be in that line of work.

No one deserves a death sentence for jogging away from what was probably a stolen car, or maybe there was a warrant out on the deceased, or whatever made him run, but the other side of that coin is you're not likely to get shot by the police if you aren't engaging in criminal activity in the first place. Am I excusing cops who shoot suspects as we have seen in these videos? No, certainly not.

I think this is a good video. The language is definitely NSFW. Sure, it's presented as a comedy, but there is truth in most everything he presents here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

"Everybody knows, if the police have to come and get you, they're bringing an ass-kicking with them."

[LHutton]

https://www.change.org/p/judge-says-child-rapist-didn-t-mean-to-hurt-the-3-year-old-toddler-he-sodomized

:down:
:mad:
That was the dumbest ruling I've ever heard of.

[thesameguy]

Correlation != Causation

Although I appreciate the sentiment, that's a misapplication of this phrase. :)

[overpowered]

GoFundMe shuts down campaign to raise money for Slager, who killed Walter Scott.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/08/michael-slager-gofundme_n_7028300.html

[overpowered]

We step ever closer to a total police state:

http://yournewswire.com/dhs-want-ability-to-track-all-car-movements/

[thesameguy]

They have wanted this for years and never gotten anything. The technology has existed for at least a decade - my company designed and sold it to national guard bases back in '03. Nobody is going to deploy a national location tracking system any time soon. That website looks like its servers are covered in tinfoil - the ad in the middle of the page is a product that removes fluoride from water, presumably so the satellites can't track you. I'd file the whole thing under Conspiracy, Nut job.

[neanderthal]

I think this proves Rodney King wasn't beaten because he's black. There's just something about leading police on a chase. It tends to piss police off. They rather enjoy their donut and coffee, but if you made them run after you... you're gonna get it. Either punches or kicks or tasers or perhaps even bullets!

You say things that make sense sometimes, but you're really quite the idiot most times.
There's a Billi that's normal and a Billi that's batshit. Pity the batshit one is the dominant one..

[LHutton]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7660/16916377330_2cf88c7696_z.jpg

[Tom Servo]

So what do you think caused the beating?

What's wrong with people like kmatt and you? If you don't like to read my posts then don't read it. Is that difficult to do?

Hell, I was just saying that you can't prove that race had nothing to do with it based on that assumption. You can certainly attribute some of it to the pursuit itself, but it doesn't necessarily negate a racial component. Sensitive much?

[MR2 Fan]

You say things that make sense sometimes, but you're really quite the idiot most times.
There's a Billi that's normal and a Billi that's batshit. Pity the batshit one is the dominant one..

Post of the year

[Rikadyn]

https://joindiaspora.co.uk/uploads/images/scaled_full_596c266dce956797a792.jpeg

[Freude am Fahren]

Video may be considered graphic, and language NSFW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEnuSVQe8E4

So I watched the video before reading the information around it. I honestly thought that a lot of the group was mentally handicapped, and that is why the cops go through such lengths to not use weapons, and also to explain why these people were acting the way they were. Apparently they are just some traveling Christian band/act. Also, it looks like some of them are fighting each other? The two in brownish shirts fighting each other seem to be just throwing punches indiscriminately at times. Complete chaos.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/11/us/arizona-parking-lot-brawl-video

When you see all of these stories about cops "fearing for their lives" and having to shoot someone (who is usually a minority), then you see this, and someone only gets shot after they take a cops gun and shoot him, it make you wonder, are these the good kind of cops we want all to be, or is it just because the offending parties are white?

[TheBenior]

I'm pretty sure that WorldStar Hiphop provides numerous examples of street brawls between black people that don't result in anyone getting shot.

Also, even if police treated everybody equally, they would still disproportionately kill black people because black people are 13% of the US population, but half to just over half of all homicides with described/named offenders are committed by black individuals. This is even more true in urban areas where police are likely to be able to respond to in-progress or just-occurred violent crimes within minutes. In 2015 in Chicago thus far, 82.1% of homicide offenders have been black.

Black people being more likely to get killed by police while being unarmed merits some reflection, but being disproportionately likely to be killed in general doesn't imply much in and of itself.

[speedpimp]

https://www.change.org/p/judge-says-child-rapist-didn-t-mean-to-hurt-the-3-year-old-toddler-he-sodomized

:down:
:mad:

Surprised that the judge didn't say she enticed him with her princess dress.

[kmatt]

The point you are trying to make is in factual error. It is the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which prohibits discrimination of privately held places of public accommodation based on protected classes. The Federal law missed some classes - notably sexual orientation - which has been addressed by some, but not all states. In some states, it is legal (because it is not illegal) to refuse service to someone who is gay. Related, because a corporation is a structure defined by state law and not Federal law (ever wonder why everyone incorporates in South Dakota?) the Federal Civil Rights Act does not discriminate between proprietorships and corporations. It has no ability to do so.

Corporations have no "social obligations" that a sole proprietorship does not. I think you are getting confused with the historical definition of a corporation - a group of people ("shareholders") granted certain rights to fulfill a public need, such as road-building, in exchange for the ability to profit. Those historical qualities have not been true of corporations since the Depression era, and really not true since the Civil War era when the whole system was fully and completely fucked over. The current definition and purpose of a corporation is, at it's core, a structure designed to shield its shareholders from direct taxation and certain types of liabilities while granting the structure certain abilities (and requirements) based on its "natural personhood." That's about it.

By cutting through the bullshit, you have indeed delved into more bullshit of your own devising. For clarity, it is Federal law that defines what a place of public accommodation can and cannot do. It is state law which defines business structures. The two have absolutely no relationship with each other.


When I say "in my opinion," I am not talking about the current status of what is legal and/or illegal.
That seems to just be going right over your head, here.

[speedpimp]

I'll probably rot in hell for this but I laughed my ass off at the video FaF posted. What a cluster fuck(and that is why I laughed). Seems like it would've been like trying to herd cats that punched back.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hell, I was just saying that you can't prove that race had nothing to do with it based on that assumption. You can certainly attribute some of it to the pursuit itself, but it doesn't necessarily negate a racial component. Sensitive much?

Thing was that you simply posted your disagreement at the time and said nothing. Thought that's just lame.

[Tom Servo]

I thought I was being succinct. My mistake.

[speedpimp]

Suck sinked? What are you? A porn plumber or something? Tsss.

[LHutton]

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Man-on-Stolen-Horse-Stunned-by-Sheriffs-Deputies-in-IE-299250951.html


Sheriff Orders Immediate Internal Investigation Into Arrest Seen on "Disturbing" Video

The San Bernardino County Sheriff ordered an internal investigation Thursday into an arrest caught on NBC Los Angeles' NewsChopper4 video that showed deputies beating a suspect when they caught up with him following a desert chase on horseback.

In the two minutes after the man was stunned with a Taser, it appeared deputies kicked him 17 times, punched him 37 times and struck him with batons four times. Thirteen blows appeared to be to the head. The horse stood idly nearby.

[Rikadyn]

Was the horse fired for not performing it's job?

[speedpimp]

The horse was stolen and just chillin' waiting to go back to its rightful owner. Years ago horse thieves were hanged in short order.

[LHutton]

Nowadays we just beat them to death.


Was the horse fired for not performing it's job?
I didn't understand why that remark was included either. I think the author may have been bored and having a laugh with that comment.

[Rikadyn]

I was thinking it was a police horse, thus should of been assaulting him as well

[LHutton]

:lol:

Nah, their horses are properly trained.;)

[speedpimp]

And by "properly trained" you mean the police horse should've been sexually assaulting the horse thief?

[thesameguy]

When I say "in my opinion," I am not talking about the current status of what is legal and/or illegal.
That seems to just be going right over your head, here.

So CI is an idiot for opining a business should be able to refuse service to anyone, but you're not an idiot for opining they should be required to service everyone, supported non-facts and incorrect legal arguments? Strong work. :up:

[LHutton]

And by "properly trained" you mean the police horse should've been sexually assaulting the horse thief?
I'm not sure how you would train a horse to do that. I will have to consult the great people of Emunclaw.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Video may be considered graphic, and language NSFW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEnuSVQe8E4

So I watched the video before reading the information around it. I honestly thought that a lot of the group was mentally handicapped, and that is why the cops go through such lengths to not use weapons, and also to explain why these people were acting the way they were. Apparently they are just some traveling Christian band/act. Also, it looks like some of them are fighting each other? The two in brownish shirts fighting each other seem to be just throwing punches indiscriminately at times. Complete chaos.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/11/us/arizona-parking-lot-brawl-video

When you see all of these stories about cops "fearing for their lives" and having to shoot someone (who is usually a minority), then you see this, and someone only gets shot after they take a cops gun and shoot him, it make you wonder, are these the good kind of cops we want all to be, or is it just because the offending parties are white?

I suspect if it were a group of black folks gathering like that, perhaps officers wouldn't even approach them.

Once you're entangled and in a head lock like that... how can you possibly safely use your firearm without risk of injuring or perhaps killing other officers?

The only possible racist move that I see is that officers would've approached a gang of black folks with more caution. I certainly wouldn't think it'd be that dangerous to approach a group of folks appearing to be huddled together and praying for example... Maybe I'm just a religi-ist? I guess I need to be more careful. Of course, I mostly likely wouldn't interrupt other people's prayers... Anyway, some sort of mental issue is definitely involved there.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I thought I was being succinct. My mistake.

Anyway, I don't mind people disagreeing with me, I just like it better when people present me with some sort of counter argument along with it so that perhaps I can see the other side of the story better...

Yes, indeed you were succinct. At least you didn't disagree with me and then tag on personal insults and attacks. So my apologies as well for being too sensitive.

[neanderthal]

I suspect if it were a group of black folks gathering like that, perhaps officers wouldn't even approach them.

Once you're entangled and in a head lock like that... how can you possibly safely use your firearm without risk of injuring or perhaps killing other officers?

The only possible racist move that I see is that officers would've approached a gang of black folks with more caution. I certainly wouldn't think it'd be that dangerous to approach a group of folks appearing to be huddled together and praying for example... Maybe I'm just a religi-ist? I guess I need to be more careful. Of course, I mostly likely wouldn't interrupt other people's prayers... Anyway, some sort of mental issue is definitely involved there.


By that you mean "back up" and "less caution", right?

[Sad, little man]

Oh boy... A deputy sheriff just shot an unarmed black man and claims that he meant to use his taser and instead used his gun.

Stand by for the barrage of news anchors awkwardly holding a taser and a model gun next to each other and comparing them. Not a real gun mind you, because that would be dangerous, and this is the news, and we're family oriented here.

[thesameguy]

I seem to recall this happening once before - yep, "A former San Francisco Bay Area Rapid Transit police officer testified Friday that he mistakenly pulled out his pistol instead of a stun gun."

[overpowered]

While many tazers do have a pistol grip, I suspect that they feel a lot different in your hand than a firearm.

[speedpimp]

It was a reserve deputy officer and he's 73.

[thesameguy]

While many tazers do have a pistol grip, I suspect that they feel a lot different in your hand than a firearm.

My recollection is that it's more than that - the holster is different, it's on the other side, obviously no safety, different weight. It's a total fuckup to draw one instead of the other.

Not suggesting that it couldn't be an innocent mistake fueled by fear and/or adrenalin and everyone's human, etc. Only that it's not an outright easy mistake to make.

[TheBenior]

Tasers weigh very little and have safeties (really, on/off switches), the vast majority of police pistols do not. It's generally recommended, if not required, to carry it cross-draw opposite the pistol.

The most common Taser holsters are made by Blackhawk, and they're pretty similar to their CQC line of pistol holsters. The draw is a little different, but the safety mechanism is the same.

As for the septuagenarian reserve deputy, I'm inclined to believe that there's probably something not quite right about someone who wants to spend their own money to play police without pay.

[thesameguy]

Dude. For real.

[overpowered]

Will the NRA’s Wayne LaPierre Ever Stop Lying?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/13/will-the-nra-s-wayne-lapierre-ever-stop-lying.html

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, regarding these cop brutalities..., racism certainly may be an issue... something could definitely be mental about an old geezer who still wishes to play cop without pay..., but I think most folks are forgetting one thing which is that we're emotional beings who can make mistakes. It'll be difficult to train all police officers to be able to make the right decisions when emotions run high. It's also unreasonable to expect all officers to be able to make the right choices all the time.

For sure there are bad cops, but I'm still willing to bet that most cops are good and doing a good job. Kinda similar to airplane crashes... what we see can indeed be horrible and raises concern... issues definitely need to be investigated and hopefully prevented in the future. However, let's not forget there are also gazillion of folks who travel by air safely.

Just like if all black dudes followed Chris Rocks' recommendations, I'm sure less # of tragedies would occur. If you go against Chris Rock's recommendations, you can be white and still possibly get shot by the US police. That black dude who got shot 8 times in the back most certainly didn't follow Rock's advice! Of course, officers shouldn't have to shot somebody in the back 8 times like that... and I'm sure under normal circumstances, even that officer would also agree with that. But when emotions run high during and after a chase... people just might not think straight.

Yeah, we can certainly ask for higher standards for police officers, but is the public willing to pay that high of a salary for the specially trained folks who can work without mistakes like robots and willing to sacrifice their lives dealing with crooks daily?

I don't think so. We'll have to wait for Robocop.

[Crazed_Insanity]

By that you mean "back up" and "less caution", right?

Back up for sure... and by waiting for back up, you'll consider that less caution?

By drawing fire arms pointing them at suspects, you'd consider that less caution?

Anyway, so what is your point?

Personally, I'm usually more sympathetic to the police. I know most here seemed to think US police are just a bunch of assholes. Anyway, I really think majority of police are not assholes..., few bad ones shouldn't be that representative of the whole. Plus, like I said, when you're full of emotions, its really difficult to make the right choices all the time.

If I'm not mistaken from that story, even white christian dude can be shot dead by the police. Do you really believe the police would've shot dead the entire black Christian family?

I guess there's no way for either one of us to prove it either way, you can certainly choose to believe whatever you want to believe. Personally, I don't believe a praying black family would be shot at all. Police most certainly would approach them with more caution... and if they follow Chris Rock's advise, surely worst thing that can happen is that they'll get arrested or perhaps get beaten up. But if no racist cops or no mental family members are involved, surely nothing would happen to the black family.

[overpowered]

Ted Cruz Says Factchecking Him Is The 'Yellow Journalism' Of 'Politi-fact'

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/04/ted-cruz-calls-factchecking-what-he-says

[overpowered]

Idaho Governor Butch Otter: “The Poor Are Genetically Inferior”

http://cityworldnews.com/butch-otter-poor-genetically-inferior/

[LHutton]

TBH I get the impression that is how a lot of Republicans think. They secretly want the poor to just die off.

[Freude am Fahren]

Nah, they need them. They just want to make sure they stay poor.

[neanderthal]

Idaho Governor Butch Otter: “The Poor Are Genetically Inferior”

http://cityworldnews.com/butch-otter-poor-genetically-inferior/

I think that's a satire site.

[neanderthal]

Anyway, regarding these cop brutalities..., racism certainly may be an issue... something could definitely be mental about an old geezer who still wishes to play cop without pay..., but I think most folks are forgetting one thing which is that we're emotional beings who can make mistakes. It'll be difficult to train all police officers to be able to make the right decisions when emotions run high. It's also unreasonable to expect all officers to be able to make the right choices all the time.

Easy to say when you aren't the ethnicity being gunned down.


For sure there are bad cops, but I'm still willing to bet that most cops are good and doing a good job. Kinda similar to airplane crashes... what we see can indeed be horrible and raises concern... issues definitely need to be investigated and hopefully prevented in the future. However, let's not forget there are also gazillion of folks who travel by air safely.

What about the "not bad" cops that know the bad cops and what they do, and don't say or do anything about it? Are they good cops or bad cops? And when the bad cop that was not reported by a "not bad cop" kills someone, like in the recent incident, is that "not bad cop" complicit?


Just like if all black dudes followed Chris Rocks' recommendations, I'm sure less # of tragedies would occur. If you go against Chris Rock's recommendations, you can be white and still possibly get shot by the US police. That black dude who got shot 8 times in the back most certainly didn't follow Rock's advice! Of course, officers shouldn't have to shot somebody in the back 8 times like that... and I'm sure under normal circumstances, even that officer would also agree with that. But when emotions run high during and after a chase... people just might not think straight.

Why can't blacks just ask to be treated fairly and without suspicion, like everybody else.

The second time I got pulled over, I was asked for my Drivers license, reg and insurance, and when I went to unbuckle the seat belt to reach for my wallet, I had a gun pointed at me. I didn't unilaterally move and my hands had been on the wheel. He asked for them. Was I supposed to conjure them up out of thin air?


Yeah, we can certainly ask for higher standards for police officers, but is the public willing to pay that high of a salary for the specially trained folks who can work without mistakes like robots and willing to sacrifice their lives dealing with crooks daily?

I don't think so. We'll have to wait for Robocop.

Cops are well paid Billi. Starting salary for the LAPD is almost $58k. That's starting.

And they choose to enter a profession that is fraught with responsibility and authority, and misuse of such should absolutely incur a higher penalty and a higher level of scrutiny. A cop can put YOU in jail. A music teacher can't. An IT pro can't. A lecturer can't. A nurse can't. A forklift driver can't. A bus driver can't. Doctor. Janitor. Tailor. Magician. Comedian. Nun. Crossing guard.

A policeman can grab you, make up some shit and put you in jail. And the DA is far more likely to side with them than you.
And they are legally allowed to carry a gun. That comes with responsibility.

[neanderthal]

Back up for sure... and by waiting for back up, you'll consider that less caution?

By drawing fire arms pointing them at suspects, you'd consider that less caution?

Anyway, so what is your point?

Personally, I'm usually more sympathetic to the police. I know most here seemed to think US police are just a bunch of assholes. Anyway, I really think majority of police are not assholes..., few bad ones shouldn't be that representative of the whole. Plus, like I said, when you're full of emotions, its really difficult to make the right choices all the time.

If I'm not mistaken from that story, even white christian dude can be shot dead by the police. Do you really believe the police would've shot dead the entire black Christian family?

I guess there's no way for either one of us to prove it either way, you can certainly choose to believe whatever you want to believe. Personally, I don't believe a praying black family would be shot at all. Police most certainly would approach them with more caution... and if they follow Chris Rock's advise, surely worst thing that can happen is that they'll get arrested or perhaps get beaten up. But if no racist cops or no mental family members are involved, surely nothing would happen to the black family.

By less caution I mean guns drawn. Is that clear enough for you?

You've obviously never had your white female passenger asked "are you alright miss/ ma'am" have you? As though I can't have white female friends, who I could actually be driving home because their car broke down. And I was driving her from the mechanics to her apt.


I get it. You're sympathetic to the cops. Most people are. they do dangerous work protecting us from the evil people who are trying to take away our stuff and guns and rights and liberties and daughters. Right? they protect us from dangerous criminals who should all be locked up.

That's what years of media reports showing black criminals will do to a society. There was in fact a recent article showing three black robbery suspects with their mug shots and three white robbery suspects with their yearbook photos. On the same day, in the same state, if I have that right.

Learn yourself (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/08/opinion/charles-blow-crime-bias-and-statistics.html) some shitty statistics and knowledge my brother.

[neanderthal]

For the record, I am the squarest, dullest, boringest black dude. I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, party etc. My opinions of cops are not based on other peoples interactions with them or other peoples tales of them, but my own interactions with them.

[overpowered]

You play rugby!

[overpowered]

I think that's a satire site.Crap. It appears so.

[TheBenior]

That's what years of media reports showing black criminals will do to a society. There was in fact a recent article showing three black robbery suspects with their mug shots and three white robbery suspects with their yearbook photos. On the same day, in the same state, if I have that right.

Heh, in Chicago, it's been routine for decades for the media to put up family-provided 8th grade graduation pictures of black males shot by the police so long as they're under 21 or so. It's only recently started to change with the increasing prevalence of the deceased to helpfully provide social media pictures of themselves throwing up gang signs or posing with the guns recovered from their bodies.

[neanderthal]

You play rugby!


Fuck.

Not anymore mate.

I'm coaching at the local university now. Got stepped on by one of the lads a few weeks ago; broken toe.
Even playing touch rugby (akin to flag football; no contact) I broke a toe on the other foot, and tore a calf muscle; same one, twice, once in 2011 and also last year.

Don't get old man.

[overpowered]

Still having lots of rugby injuries is at least somewhat interesting.

I chose a sport that typically doesn't involve broken bones and chronic long term joint damage.

[neanderthal]

And for me that was rugby until about 2011.

[overpowered]

The right wing's war on the poor has a problem. Jesus taught to feed the poor:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/04/texas-woman-invokes-religious-freedom-argument-to-fight-2000-fine-for-feeding-the-homeless/

[Freude am Fahren]

Right wingers actions in opposition to their supposed 'Christian Values™'? :eek:

I like when those things backfire.

Also, If I want to feed the homeless as someone who is not religious, I can't? Sounds like religious discrimination to me.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neanderthal..., FYI, $58k/yr isn't a whole lot of money in LA. Medium household income is $56k according to Wiki.

I know I wouldn't want to risk my life on the daily basis with just an 'average pay'. Therefore..., only average folks... or folks who passionately wish to play cops for one reason or another would take up on such an offer.

Yes, I'd completely agree with you that during a routine traffic stop, you may encounter guns being drawn at you and personally as a asian dude, I've never had that experience... and that is totally racial profiling at work! If you consider that 'racism', yeah, you can probably categorize 99% of the cops as racists! Now, I don't really think cops are brainwashed by media, I'm sure their reaction and sensitivity to black suspects were developed throughout their career. However, if you faithfully follow Chris Rock's advise..., chances are, you won't ever get shot by the police.

Whether black or white or chinese, drivers in the US must be more careful when go reaching for license and registration. Always give cops the opportunity to see your hands... and let the cop know that you're reaching into your pocket or your glove compartment to retrieve whatever item. Don't make any sudden moves! You may just be dealing with a newbie... or perhaps dealing with a racist. However, if you commit no crime, didn't run and presented no threats, chances are you should be able to escape the incident with your life.

And it's not just black folks. I have a mexican friend who drives a BMW who actually got pulled over multiple times because cops thought he's driving a stolen car... and he was body searched too at time... luckily with no cavity searches... anyway, I'm sure multiple rights were violated..., but luckily he lived to tell about it!

So why are cops so hard on blacks and mexicans? Do you really believe the sole reason is because cops are racists? Surely there are some racist elements, but I don't think that's the main reason. Anyway, I just think it's unrealistic to ask law enforcement to completely quit racial profiling and don't act so nervous when facing certain suspects that fits certain profiles...

All we can ask for is minimize shooting and beating up folks who are obviously not a threat!

[neanderthal]

I don't know if you notice, but $58k is starting salary.

I don't need to follow whatever Chris Rock is saying. I simply need to be treated like a normal being. PERIOD.

I'm NOT going to do a song and dance and a "yes massa, whatever you say massa" routine because I was speeding. Why the fuck should i? Do you? Does Nigel? Does Jason? So why should I?

"So why are cops so hard on blacks and mexicans." Racism. Period.

[thesameguy]

I dunno man... I'm as white as they come and I still treat police with deference. They have a rough job. People shoot at them. Stupid people make their lives difficult all day every day. It costs me nothing to tell them what I am reaching for and be as pleasant as possible so I try to do that. :shrug:

[Tom Servo]

I think the point is that both of you treat them with deference, but only one of you tends to end up with a gun pointed at them while doing so.

[thesameguy]

Could very well be, but that isn't entirely the way I read it. IDK. Kinda regardless, when the statistics are what they are, it's hard to blame someone whose life is quite literally on the line for treating one group differently from another. Not saying it's how it should be, but it's certainly understandable. I'd take that into account when dealing with people in or around those situations. It's why when I go to France, I tell them I'm from Canada. I don't act indignant that they think my country does stupid shit. It does.

[neanderthal]

I dunno man... I'm as white as they come and I still treat police with deference. They have a rough job. People shoot at them. Stupid people make their lives difficult all day every day. It costs me nothing to tell them what I am reaching for and be as pleasant as possible so I try to do that. :shrug:

I don't disagree. However, when he/ she asks for my license, he/ she should expect i'm going to reach for it, probably from my wallet. There's a difference between me just randomly reaching, and reaching when i have been asked/ instructed to produce documents. I froze. He said "I need your license blah blah blah."
I said " I heard you and when I reached for my wallet you pulled a gun on me."
he said "move slowly."
I said, "you asked to see it, and pulled a gun on me when I tried to comply." Didn't move.
he asked again.
I said "I heard you, and you've still got a gun pointing at me. where exactly do you think I am going to get my license. Where do you keep your license, because mine is in my wallet, which is in my pocket."

He was red/ flushed and had his gun holstered before I moved if I recall. it was several minutes from him asking for my license to him seeing it.

Another time, someone stole my registration tag. i noticed it but didn't have time to go to DMV. I got pulled over two, maybe three days later. CHP. I laid out my license, reg and insurance on the passenger seat.
She came up to my passenger window; "hi, do you know why I pulled you over."

Me "Good afternoon. I think it's for my missing registration tag. I noticed it the other day but haven't been able to get to DMV. However, I did go to dmv and I did pay my registration. i think the tag was stolen. Here is my paid registration, insurance, and drivers license."

Her "Whats with the attitude?"

It may not be verbatim, but that was the gist of the exchange, almost word for word. Car off. Keys on the dash. Both front windows rolled down. Hands on the wheel. When I say my experiences with the police are what colour my opinions, that is what i'm talking about. I'm a perennial speeder. I understand that's going to come with the consequence of getting tickets. That's ok. i understand that, i'm fine with it. what I don't expect is to have a gun pointed at me because I was going 10 over the limit and everybody else was going 8 over.
I've had three nuetral/ pleasant interactions with cops of the 15 odd times I have been pulled over.
One in Arizona. Pulled me over for too dark tint on windows. Gave me a ticket for no insurance (car was only a couple of days in my possession.) No ticket for tint.

Once, going to the Rugby Sevens. Actually complimented me on how I got over from the carpool lane to get over. Still got the ticket. My team mates were laughing.

Coming from Arizona, 1:30 am, going fast. Pulled me over because I slowed down to pass a car. He got me at 104. "Why are you going so fast?"
"Sir, I have problems with glare, on long trips I have to wear sunglasses to prevent my eyes hurting. I had turned off all the lights including the dash lights, and I had my sunglasses on. Unfortunately, this car, you can't really tell 50mph from 70 from 80 from 100. I apologize, it was not intentional."
Going that fast, I can haul you to jail.
"Yes sir. I understand."
Any warrants, tickets, failure to appears, or anything I should know?
"No sir."
OK, i'm going to run your license, if there is anything you are going to jail.
He comes back. "The only reason your car is not being impounded and you're not going to jail is because your record is clean. Slow down."
"yes sir, Thank you sir, have a good evening."

Oh, here's another incident that coloured my view.

I got pulled over for going 40mph in a 40. It had been raining but wasn't anymore, and i, out of habit, took the far right lane at the traffic light. The road goes from two to three lanes, with the extra lane opening on the right. It was waterlogged once you passed the intersection, I couldn't see, so I slowed down, waited for an opportunity to merge left, merged, and I was third or fourth in the line of cars. So from first at the light, to fourth or so. Out of habit, at the light, I pulled into the right lane again. As soon as I was across the intersection, they turned on the red and blues. I flashed my hazards, turned into the first street. Said I was speeding. How?

In the map below, i got off the 405 freeway on Nordhoff going west. The first traffic light is on Haskell, where the third lane has begun. i crossed the intersection, slowed and merged and stayed in the middle lane to Hayvenhurst, where I again entered the right lane. As soon as i crossed that intersection, i got pulled over. Bear in mind, it HAD been raining, but wasn't raining anymore. When they said I was speeding, I asked how fast I was going. They said "40, limits 35." I knew I wasn't going 40, I was right in front of them, why tempt fate. I also knew the limit was 40, AND i was stuck behind some cars. They added too fast for conditions, driveways, school (it was after school hours) etc.

Zoom in on the map (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.2344692,-118.4848688,16z) and you'll see that all the driveways for those houses are in the alley behind the houses. And it wasn't raining.

Completely bullshit ticket. No rain. No school. Not going as fast as they claimed. Speed limit was higher than they claimed. No driveways.



I think the point is that both of you treat them with deference, but only one of you tends to end up with a gun pointed at them while doing so.

Exactly.

[neanderthal]

Another one.
New Mexico. 31mph in a school zone (25mph.) School isn't out yet. I'm not the one at the back of the convoy, but I am the only one with an out of state plate. They pass other cars, going at the same speed as I am, but, local plates, they pull ME over. There was several cars. i was third from the back. I was NOT at the front.

But, school zone, lights flashing, I get it. But why only me? i wasn't the only one.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Truth and blunt answer is... YOUR BLACK! THAT's WHY!

Reality is that racism will always exist. No laws could get rid of it completely. Neither will political correctness. We'll just have to learn to deal with it, by trying to love one another the best we can.

Yes, reality is that even by us all behaving all nicely during a routine stop by the police, chances of guns being drawn at you will be significantly greater.

All the more reason for black people to not be confrontational or to run away. It is extremely difficult, I know. Our natural tendency in such fearful situation is to fight or flight..., but unless you're pretty sure that you can overcome that asshole police or run away cleanly without getting caught, try to fight these natural urges. As we can see these situations rarely ends well.

Of course we also need to reform the police as well. If a police officer has a consistent record of shooting and killing people in the back, that's got to be fixed somehow. Further, we shouldn't allow old geezers without proven track records to volunteer as police... Anyway, not sure how to fix these problems. Maybe we just have a shortage of police? That's why they usually get away with this type of things whenever NOT caught on camera?

Whatever the reason, just saying that we need to do the best we can to make the job of police as easy as possible. It's definitely for our own benefit to do that. Further, you're absolutely right that we all should be treated like human beings. Just that it's probably not a good idea to play Rosa Parks when you're stopped by the police. Racism is difficult to get rid of, but it has certainly improved over time, right? So I'm sure things will continue to improve...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Here's an interesting video of these type of situations. No black people involved.

I think it's obvious to us civilians to see that officer used excessive force. However, police still denied any wrongdoing eventhough agreed to pay $40k to settle the case so that they won't have to spend more court fees fighting the case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=185&v=sqbmasNeOmM

Anyway, in that incidence, signing a ticket really doesn't mean admitting that you're guilty. He really should've just signed it and fight later. However, I guess the guy knows that he's not black and knew the officer won't kill him and in the process made $40k. Not bad I guess. ;)

My point is that we should not fight(confront) the police on the spot. Let it go..., do not resist... even if you're being treated as a non-human being. Legal system is usually on our side later. Don't fight, don't run, preserve your life first and then you can live to fight them later. Young black males especially need to be educated on this until Dr Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream become true. It's not like we're living in some sort of totalitarian state that we have no other recourse..., just try to comply the best you can and if you do have a case, you should be able to easily beat the system later. The law is on our side. Preserve your life first and fight later!

[MR2 Fan]

Truth and blunt answer is... YOUR BLACK! THAT's WHY!


*you're

[MR2 Fan]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/17/us/michigan-business-bans-openly-gay-people/index.html

Short version = gun owners allowed and get discounts, gay people banned.



"Apparently if you are white (or close to it), you have a job, go to church, and own a gun ... That translates into racists, privileged, bigot, conspiracy theorist. Too many of us say nothing. Well, freedom of speech isn't just for liberals."


Apparently the owner doesn't know "irony" when he sees it.

[thesameguy]

I don't disagree. However, when he/ she asks for my license, he/ she should expect i'm going to reach for it, probably from my wallet. There's a difference between me just randomly reaching, and reaching when i have been asked/ instructed to produce documents. I froze. He said "I need your license blah blah blah."
I said " I heard you and when I reached for my wallet you pulled a gun on me."

I guess I just disagree. You didn't announce what you were reaching for when you reached for something, and then when the cop got angsty and pulled a gun, you got attitude. It would have cost nothing to say, "Okay, my wallet is over here" before you went for it and "I'm sorry, my paperwork is over here" after he pulled the gun. Nothing. I just don't understand why you wouldn't offer the courtesy of announcing your intention and apologizing when there was a misunderstanding. That's all it takes to de-escalate the situation.

Nothing you have described here broadly sounds like anything abnormal. I've been pulled over for not speeding (in fact, I just relayed that story a few days ago), I've been pulled over for "street racing" when there were no other cars around (cop said "I had to shift into sixth gear to catch you!" To catch my 110hp 3-speed automatic Saab. Okay.), I've been pulled over for 68 in a 65 for being a long haired weirdo in a hippie car, and I've had a cop threaten to shoot my dog for barking. Cops do dumb shit, some of them have a touch of the megalomania, and some of them are antsy as fuck. But it doesn't change the fact that they have really tough jobs and it costs nothing to be super polite and grin and bear it. If it's really something worth fighting, fight after the incident with the precinct and not during.

I know the system doesn't work right, and I have a deep, deep distrust for authority in general, and I can't even watching Training Day without getting sick to stomach. Not joking. But I also recognize pragmatic truths - and those include the fact I won't win any confrontation with a cop. So I don't even start, and I take possibly excessive steps to ensure there is no start to a misunderstanding. It just isn't worth it.

Like they say, you do you. This is just an opinion coming from a guy who has simultaneously an odd number of weirdo police encounters and an odd number of police in my life. IDK.

[MR2 Fan]

Didn't we have a different thread for all of this police stuff?

[Crazed_Insanity]

*you're

Oh thanks recreational gynie doctor who also minors in English! :p

Anyway, I just want to know why gun owners get a discount? Surely there are also liberal gun owners who'd like to come kill him and his family too?

[neanderthal]

I guess I just disagree. You didn't announce what you were reaching for when you reached for something, and then when the cop got angsty and pulled a gun, you got attitude. It would have cost nothing to say, "Okay, my wallet is over here" before you went for it and "I'm sorry, my paperwork is over here" after he pulled the gun. Nothing. I just don't understand why you wouldn't offer the courtesy of announcing your intention and apologizing when there was a misunderstanding. That's all it takes to de-escalate the situation.

Nothing you have described here broadly sounds like anything abnormal. I've been pulled over for not speeding (in fact, I just relayed that story a few days ago), I've been pulled over for "street racing" when there were no other cars around (cop said "I had to shift into sixth gear to catch you!" To catch my 110hp 3-speed automatic Saab. Okay.), I've been pulled over for 68 in a 65 for being a long haired weirdo in a hippie car, and I've had a cop threaten to shoot my dog for barking. Cops do dumb shit, some of them have a touch of the megalomania, and some of them are antsy as fuck. But it doesn't change the fact that they have really tough jobs and it costs nothing to be super polite and grin and bear it. If it's really something worth fighting, fight after the incident with the precinct and not during.

I know the system doesn't work right, and I have a deep, deep distrust for authority in general, and I can't even watching Training Day without getting sick to stomach. Not joking. But I also recognize pragmatic truths - and those include the fact I won't win any confrontation with a cop. So I don't even start, and I take possibly excessive steps to ensure there is no start to a misunderstanding. It just isn't worth it.

Like they say, you do you. This is just an opinion coming from a guy who has simultaneously an odd number of weirdo police encounters and an odd number of police in my life. IDK.

When he pointed the gun at me, at first i got scared, then I got angry, but I kept my head. And my thought process was "if he's going to pull his gun on me when i reach for my wallet after he asked for my license what is he going to do when he's already got the gun pointed at me." At that point I decided fuck it, i'm not moving till he puts it away.

He kept saying asking and saying "move slowly." And I kept saying, "YOU asked for it, I didn't just randomly reach/ im not moving while you're pointing a gun at me." And this is me fresh off the boat from Africa, so I still had a strong English accent, not like now.

I don't disagree that they have a dangerous job and are put in compromising situations, but with me, THEY are the ones who have escalated my negative opinion of them. I'm not giving them a free pass to be a dick to me because they've profiled me. That I am NOT doing.

[speedpimp]

When pulled over I shut the car off, roll a window down, keep my hands on the wheel, and if it's dark out, turn on the interior lights. I heard that advice from a former cop and it seems to work.

[thesameguy]

I don't disagree that they have a dangerous job and are put in compromising situations, but with me, THEY are the ones who have escalated my negative opinion of them. I'm not giving them a free pass to be a dick to me because they've profiled me. That I am NOT doing.

I completely agree that by and large it's the police which have given me the poor opinion of police. And every time there's someone getting kicked by gang of cops or shot in the back eight times it turns my stomach. I want it to be better. I want humanity's best examples being leaders, teachers, and law enforcement. It just doesn't work that way and no amount of railing against the system is going to change that. That said, I know a fair number of police (city, county and state) and they are all super cool people - I count a couple of them amongst my best friends. I just never seem to get stopped by the cool ones. I guess that sort of fits, because the times I've been stopped it's always for dumb shit. If I got clocked at 100+ on the freeway I'd expect to be face-down on the pavement (happened to a friend), but I always get nailed for tiny little transgressions by folks with a chip on their shoulder. I understand pride and I understand fair, but like I said, I'm also a pragmatist and I'm not going to participate in much less instigate a fight I cannot win - so I give all the little-wiener nothing better to do police a wide berth and big smiles. And then complain about them to the cool ones over beers. :) I know nothing is going to happen, but it makes me feel better.


When pulled over I shut the car off, roll a window down, keep my hands on the wheel, and if it's dark out, turn on the interior lights. I heard that advice from a former cop and it seems to work.

Same here, and same experience, and although once I felt like doing this had gotten me in trouble because the cop who stopped me was like "You been arrested before? You seem to know the drill." I told him no, just trying to be helpful. This was actually the one time I felt I completely deserved being stopped - I was driving an illegally lit unregistered piece of shit car through a nice neighborhood in the middle of the night at a very low speed (because it barely ran). He could have easily impounded the car and been totally justified - but I think being friendly paid off and he let me go. I was only three blocks from home anyway.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't disagree that they have a dangerous job and are put in compromising situations, but with me, THEY are the ones who have escalated my negative opinion of them. I'm not giving them a free pass to be a dick to me because they've profiled me. That I am NOT doing.

You have to realize that when police pull you over or approach you as one of their suspects, it's not up to you to give them a free pass.

It's not our job to give police free passes. It's not even our duty to behave as speedpimp suggests or as in Chris Rock's video..., but it does de-esclate things down to a safe level.

You don't want emotions running wild when cops pointing their weapons at you. It's not worth making an appearance as another casualty on youtube. Ideally you want to make it so safe for the police that they'll never feel the need to draw their weapons.

I see this as a 'political' issue as well. Cops are getting more and more cruel with suspects even with so many cameras out there... and public is getting more and more resistant with the police. Perhaps thinking we now have more cameras to protect us... However, I really don't think things have improved since the Rodney King incident. It's not just with black people, yeah, perhaps police has killed less white people, but police certainly has no problems beating up white suspects excessively. Both sides need to change their behavior and meet the other side more toward the middle... Police certain don't wish to back down because their lives are on the line. As for us civilians, it really isn't that much to ask to behave as speedpimp suggested.

[speedpimp]

Billy/i, the next time you get pulled over make sure you make a sudden lunge for the glove box.

[neanderthal]

Billi.

Please go back and re read everything I have posted. I am NOT the one being aggressive, or insolent. I appreciate they do a dangerous job. I'm willing to cut them slack. But when I am being polite, and cooperative, I expect a modicum of respect back. Just a modicum.

I don't expect to be treated like a criminal, even though I may have been speeding, and I certainly don't expect to be roughed up because I "fit the profile." I'm black, and that is the extent of me fitting the profile there is. I wear soccer and rugby t shirts and rugby jerseys almost exlusively if i'm not wearing a polo or button down shirt. My English is impeccable, my diction, phonation and intonation are immaculate. I know how to address people in all walks of life. I drive an old E320 that is well kept and doesn't have blingy gaudy wheels, loud stereo etc. I listen to everything from Clapton to Bob Marley to Hugh Masekela and Bach. You will rarely hear me listening to hip hop or "urban" music, and if you do, its some dope shit like old skool Janet Jackson, or Lauryn Hill, or De La Soul. In other words, I fit the profile about as much as you do.

All I ask is to be treated fairly and humanely. And it's not a big ask.

I too know a bunch of cops, pretty cool guys, from my rugby club, or social groups or church. People who didn't trip if someone lit up some green, or some 20 year old was slipped a beer. People whose homes i've been in for bbqs or poker or whatever.

There was an interesting story I read about a road rage incident that kept escalating until both protagonists got out of their cars and were about to strike blows when they realised they were neighbours. I imagine once they slip on the uniform there is some change. It may not be great,it may not be overt. But psychological studies have been done where people are given power over others. And they change. Who's to say that doesn't happen to cops. They are merely humans.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Exactly, they're mere humans. Once in uniform with lethal weapon, even if they act like assholes, we need to continue to comply and be nice because were at his mercy for now. To fight injustice, to teach police a lesson, we should do it thru courts. Young blacks especially need to be taught this so we can minimize these tragedies...

[Jason]

Mo, not that it means much... but I've only ever been pulled over in CA, even though my driving habits are pretty mild. I had one cop directly pull a gun on me, and another just about, and then start banging on all my panels, and every cop save one has given me major attitude. So, you not only have it worse because you're black, but also because cops/CHP in CA are major dicks. Cops out here in DC? I've never had the slightest problem with (probably because I'm white, but still, it seems like they have more important shit to deal with).

[neanderthal]

Mo, not that it means much... but I've only ever been pulled over in CA, even though my driving habits are pretty mild. I had one cop directly pull a gun on me, and another just about, and then start banging on all my panels, and every cop save one has given me major attitude. So, you not only have it worse because you're black, but also because cops/CHP in CA are major dicks. Cops out here in DC? I've never had the slightest problem with (probably because I'm white, but still, it seems like they have more important shit to deal with).

Dude, they banged up the Honda?

you should have roid raged on them.

I think the job attracts a fair number of arseholes. As do military jobs when theres a bombing or incident or whatever.
The uniform just allows them to practice their arseholery with a veneer of invulnerability.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bxcc3SM_KA