Politics

[sandydandy]

Ok. This, for me, is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Whistleblower Complaint Alleges Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center (https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/like-an-experimental-concentration-camp-whistleblower-complaint-alleges-mass-hysterectomies-at-ice-detention-center/) Seems on par with what the Nazis were doing in concentration camps. This is what America has come to. It’s ugly. :smh:

[Crazed_Insanity]

RWA, it’s one thing to be cozy with other dictators or assholes for selfish interests... our government was friends with likes of Hussein and Bin Laden. I’m not self unaware. However, most of the time US government isn’t directly involved in such evils. We came real close with Japanese American camps and base in Guantanamo bay, but one could argue for war reasons, but this current allegations are just pure evil.

Also what Mario said:



And yeah, while there's multiple instances of the American government breaking international law throughout history. I believe this is the first time, since the modern world institutions were put in place, that there are allegations describing such criminal behavior on U.S. soil.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That's a good point, what would be the motivation. Then I thought of Stephen Miller and thought "oh...yeah."

Yes, that guy is an enigma, raised in Santa Monica, how the fuck did he become what he is? Interestingly I also do have a cousin born and raise in Santa Monica and he’s also a Trump supporter and currently work as a lawyer for DHS...

Still, as powerful as Miller is now, does he really have the authorization to do all of this? Child separation thing already didn’t go down very well, I really find it hard to believe more of his people will double down and do this...

Sure, Trump might be able to get away with murder, do we really have this many dumbass white supremacists on govt payroll to pull this off?!?!?

Hope not!

[neanderthal]

Al muthafuckers had to do was use their brains and vote for the lady with "the emails."

[FaultyMario]

If only the lady with "the emails" had campaigned harder in battle ground states.

[Crazed_Insanity]

In all fairness to the fair lady, if the access Hollywood tape didn’t change any minds, I doubt her campaign could.

Minds don’t usually change during the campaign, had Obama/EU really done a good job taking care of everyone during the past years, there’d be no Trump/Sanders nor Brexit.

[FaultyMario]

She lost to a snake oil salesman. That's how bad a candidate she is.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda bin a decent president, but first she shoulda win it.

[FaultyMario]

had Obama/EU really done a good job taking care of everyone during the past years, there’d be no Trump/Sanders nor Brexit.

Did you check the "Your Brother's Keeper" website I linked to earlier? It was literally the first time I heard the Obama administration had implemented such a program. The status quo is so afraid that the poor could develop a class conscience that they always do those half assed attempts at community-building/national reconciliation when they're in power. And to be fair to him, it's not exclusive of Obama, it happens everywhere in the west.

[Crazed_Insanity]

She lost to a snake oil salesman. That's how bad a candidate she is.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda bin a decent president, but first she shoulda win it.

Yes, she lost to a jr senator and then lost to a sales con man.

It’s not because she’s bad or unqualified..., in fact, she was too qualified that’s the problem. Voters are not stupid. They prefer outsiders! We just don’t trust seasoned politicians anymore...

Now thanks to trump, we just don’t trust anyone anymore...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Did you check the "Your Brother's Keeper" website I linked to earlier? It was literally the first time I heard the Obama administration had implemented such a program. The status quo is so afraid that the poor could develop a class conscience that they always do those half assed attempts at community-building/national reconciliation when they're in power. And to be fair to him, it's not exclusive of Obama, it happens everywhere in the west.

Obama was a good community organizer to begin with, doing that was right up his alley. I don’t know it well enough to know whether it’s half or full assed attempt..., whatever happened to that, Im not gonna criticize him for the effort. :p

Nationalistic sentiments rising were a global thing, not sure if the West were the main culprit?

I honestly don’t know, just like Neo, I just know that something is just wrong with our Matrix... unlike Neo, I’m probably not the one and have no clue how to fix it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/transexual-satanist-anarchist-picks-up-gop-sheriff-nh-county.amp

This is proof how broken we are...

Transexual satanist anarchist won local election to be the county sheriff on a republican ticket. Her campaign slogan was fuck the police! :lol:

[FaultyMario]

Neither of those three things should disqualify anyone from public office, as they are part of their personal sphere. Maybe an anarchist wouldn't normally run for office, but as her slogan shows, she is not lacking congruence.

[Tom Servo]

She lost to a snake oil salesman. That's how bad a candidate she is.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda bin a decent president, but first she shoulda win it.

A snake oil salesman with the backing of a foreign government and maybe the most sophisticated social media engineering company on the planet with access to tons of ill-gotten data.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neither of those three things should disqualify anyone from public office, as they are part of their personal sphere. Maybe an anarchist wouldn't normally run for office, but as her slogan shows, she is not lacking congruence.

The point wasn't about her qualifications, but about voters blindly voting for a name with (R) behind it. I'm sure voters on the (D) side could also make similar mistakes...

Doesn't matter if Russia or Satan's involved. Voters don't usually do their homework and can be easily manipulated... even when the candidate wasn't even trying to manipulate voters. She hacked thru the system due to a vulnerability in the election process...

Making voting compulsory also won't fix this problem.

Needs an update to patch this...

[Crazed_Insanity]

A snake oil salesman with the backing of a foreign government and maybe the most sophisticated social media engineering company on the planet with access to tons of ill-gotten data.

Both sides probably had enormous non-american backings... US government also have plenty of ill-gotten data that's why we couldn't give Snowden a fair trial.

Maybe Russians or whoever the mastermind was, meddled with UK as well to cause Brexit and nationalistic attitudes all over the world...

However, we also need to examine the reasons why was it so easy for such meddler to succeed?

If most people are doing well under EU, why would they want to exit?

If most americans are doing well thanks to the establisment, why would they become anti-establishment?

Anti-establishment sentiments were a reaction of something... with that something, it becomes easy to meddle. If not Bernie, it'd be Trump. If not Trump, it'd be some other asshole. Hillary's problem was that she's clearly one of the more established candidates.

Biden shares the same problem, but lucky for him that enough people have realized that trump is a snake oil salesman... so maybe Biden will have a chance of winning. However, the underlying anti-establishment sentiment is still there. Even after a Biden win, our nation could trip up again in 4 years unless leaders address the anti-establishment sentiments by truly taking care of its people, rather than just taking care of the rich.

[FaultyMario]

A snake oil salesman with the backing of a foreign government and maybe the most sophisticated social media engineering company on the planet with access to tons of ill-gotten data.

a) Foreign intervention. Woah dude, you mean there's been rich countries circumventing democratic procedures? Seems that it would be something a former first lady and secretary of state would be aware of, it could even be a reason for her to try to keep her most sensitive personal information away from compromised systems.

b) Personal data breaches. Governments should ensure that their citizens data records are safe from economic interests, and that would include not having such a cynical revolving door (https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/9/21429635/amazon-keith-alexander-board-of-directors-nsa-cyber-command) between spies and IT providers.

For the record, I think Hillary is a very competent civil servant but she has one big problem; she is fucking smug. She can't connect with the peasants. She obviously knew about the risks of data transmission, that's why she kept her stuff secure, instead of using her power to curb private interests that put millions of people's information at risk. She has favored the big over the small throughout all of her public career, and the (R) just exploited that by propping a discourse that pandered to the poor and the disadvantaged. The fascist buffoon just lucked in on the sentiment.

The "middle" (class, option, ground) was a recipe the neo-liberal regime used to hide the fact that they were favoring the upper (class, interests), and after a generation it was obvious that the narrative was unsustainable; They should have raised the alarm when Bernie 1.0 took a good chunk of delegates with his pro-working classes message in the Dem primary and they should have taken notice when the "America has stopped being great" stump destroyed long-term bureaucrats like Gov. Christie and competent middle-ground politicians like the smarter Bush kid.

Address the discontent, promise radical1 changes to issues that are perceived to be on a basic level to Trump voters, like income inequality and the cultural divide, offer practical solutions to those on the margins of the shift in the manufacturing industry, be a champion of the other individual rights that make up the American Way of Life, you know, like privacy rights.


____
Radical as in a root canal, a solution that is mildly painful but long lasting.

[sandydandy]

For the record, I think Hillary is a very competent civil servant but she has one big problem; she is fucking smug. She can't connect with the peasants The real life Gordon Gekko said she was the queen of receiving money, and therefore easily able to be bought just like Trump.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't know. I get the feeling that Trump wants more power to make more money, but Hillary just wants more power because she wants more power.

Given what has happened, I have to side with Neanderthal that the power of POTUS is probably safer with Hillary than Trump. For sure she's lesser of the 2 evils.

However, I just wish we could have a leader who truly care about the needs of average folks.

I'd like to see political disagreements when it comes to invading Iraq or rescuing big banks and speedy bipartisan support for affordable healthcare or emergency stimulus checks... but of course ordinary citizens will always get the short end of the stick. Whenever we're given the short stick, govt just tell us to hate our political opposition. It's all their fault. We tried. If you don't vote them out of office, then it's all your fault. It's not our fault when we allowed our political opposition to redraw the voting map in favor of our political opposition. You just have to move into the red states and the red neighborhoods! Yeah! That's it. It's all our fault.

[Rikadyn]

Neither of those three things should disqualify anyone from public office, as they are part of their personal sphere. Maybe an anarchist wouldn't normally run for office, but as her slogan shows, she is not lacking congruence.

She is an AnCap, believes in privatization and corporate rule instead of governments or even democracy. They are just libertarians really, and generally laughed at in anarchist circles

[FaultyMario]

Yes, capitalism needs the modern State to function, so then, not an anarchist.

[JoshInKC]

AnCaps don't usually think that far down the line. They tend to be pretty sure that "I did all this on my own, I'd have done even better without the government taking my money to build roads and educate children."
I generally refer to them as Neofeudalists, both because its accurate and its funny.

[Rikadyn]

Only real saving grace for ancaps is that a few of them eventually realize the ideology is bullshit when they graduate middle school. The rest are lost cause.

[SportWagon]

So as far as I can tell Trump's claim that the Republican states of America have a world-enviable death rate isn't even a trick of numerology or anything. It appears to be just a claim, made without demonstration of calculation or even definitions.

https://www.axios.com/trump-coronavirus-deaths-toll-blue-states-3bebf52a-d3ef-4ac0-91b0-7db96cd9f34a.html

[21Kid]

Biden Is leading by less than what Hillary had at this point. A few swing states are marginally above poll error margin. Some segments -Florida Latinos, for example- show a large swing in Trump's favor.

There needs to be hope people can believe in.

That's why I was a fan of Bernie. I know Mo's going to shit all over me saying it. But, he brought a lot of hope. Just too bad he couldn't bring people out to vote for him. :(
Nearly everyone is voting for Biden because he's not Trump. :/ That's a pretty shitty reason to vote for someone. I still can't believe he won the primary. I know of literally ONE person that thought he was going to win the primaries. And his campaign/energy has just never been there.

[Tom Servo]

So as far as I can tell Trump's claim that the Republican states of America have a world-enviable death rate isn't even a trick of numerology or anything. It appears to be just a claim, made without demonstration of calculation or even definitions.

https://www.axios.com/trump-coronavirus-deaths-toll-blue-states-3bebf52a-d3ef-4ac0-91b0-7db96cd9f34a.html

Yeah, you can't look for reason there. Dude literally claimed in a town hall last night that he'd never commended China for their handling of COVID despite his tweets doing just that still being up.

[21Kid]

The question was posed, "Why do people continue supporting Trump no matter what he does?" A lady named Bev answered it this way:
“You all don't get it. I live in Trump country, in the Ozarks in southern Missouri, one of the last places where the KKK still has a relatively strong established presence.
They don't give a shit what he does. He's just something to rally around and hate liberals, that's it, period.
He absolutely realizes that and plays it up. They love it. He knows they love it.
The fact that people act like it's anything other than that proves to them that liberals are idiots, all the more reason for high fives all around.
If you keep getting caught up in "why do they not realize this problem" and "how can they still back Trump after this scandal," then you do not understand what the underlying motivating factor of his support is. It's fuck liberals, that's pretty much it.
Have you noticed he can do pretty much anything imaginable, and they'll explain some way that rationalizes it that makes zero logical sense?
Because they're not even keeping track of any coherent narrative, it's irrelevant. Fuck liberals is the only relevant thing.
Trust me; I know firsthand what I'm talking about.
That's why they just laugh at it all because you all don't even realize they truly don't give a fuck about whatever the conversation is about.
It's just a side mission story that doesn't matter anyway.
That's all just trivial details - the economy, health care, whatever.
Fuck liberals.
Look at the issue with not wearing the masks.
I can tell you what that's about. It's about exposing fear. They're playing chicken with nature, and whoever flinches just moved down their internal pecking order, one step closer to being a liberal.
You've got to understand the one core value that they hold above all others is hatred for what they consider weakness because that's what they believe strength is, hatred of weakness.
And I mean passionate, sadistic hatred.
And I'm not exaggerating. Believe me.
Sadistic, passionate hatred, and that's what proves they're strong, their passionate hatred for weakness.
Sometimes they will lump vulnerability in with weakness.
They do that because people tend to start humbling themselves when they're in some compromising or overwhelming circumstance, and to them, that's an obvious sign of weakness.
Kindness = weakness. Honesty = weakness.
Compromise = weakness.
They consider their very existence to be superior in every way to anyone who doesn't hate weakness as much as they do.
They consider liberals to be weak people that are inferior, almost a different species, and the fact that liberals are so weak is why they have to unite in large numbers, which they find disgusting, but it's that disgust that is a true expression of their natural superiority.
Go ahead and try to have a logical, rational conversation with them. Just keep in mind what I said here and be forewarned.”

[sandydandy]

I have a cousin who lives in Florida. He’ll be voting for Trump. Not because he likes him, but because he hates Biden. Mostly because of his tax policies. He’s a surgeon and does well for himself and doesn’t want to see Biden in office because his taxes will go through the roof. That’s the only reason. His dislike for Biden is greater than any liking of Trump.

I reckon that’s a common theme throughout the country among Republican voters.

[Tom Servo]

Man, I do far better than I have any right to and I still got fucked by Trump's taxes. My tax rate went down but I lost a ton of deductions, ended up owing $11k on my 2018 taxes after the Trump tax plan went into effect.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The question was posed, "Why do people continue supporting Trump no matter what he does?" A lady named Bev answered it this way:
“You all don't get it. I live in Trump country, in the Ozarks in southern Missouri, one of the last places where the KKK still has a relatively strong established presence.
They don't give a shit what he does. He's just something to rally around and hate liberals, that's it, period.
He absolutely realizes that and plays it up. They love it. He knows they love it.
The fact that people act like it's anything other than that proves to them that liberals are idiots, all the more reason for high fives all around.
If you keep getting caught up in "why do they not realize this problem" and "how can they still back Trump after this scandal," then you do not understand what the underlying motivating factor of his support is. It's fuck liberals, that's pretty much it.
Have you noticed he can do pretty much anything imaginable, and they'll explain some way that rationalizes it that makes zero logical sense?
Because they're not even keeping track of any coherent narrative, it's irrelevant. Fuck liberals is the only relevant thing.
Trust me; I know firsthand what I'm talking about.
That's why they just laugh at it all because you all don't even realize they truly don't give a fuck about whatever the conversation is about.
It's just a side mission story that doesn't matter anyway.
That's all just trivial details - the economy, health care, whatever.
Fuck liberals.
Look at the issue with not wearing the masks.
I can tell you what that's about. It's about exposing fear. They're playing chicken with nature, and whoever flinches just moved down their internal pecking order, one step closer to being a liberal.
You've got to understand the one core value that they hold above all others is hatred for what they consider weakness because that's what they believe strength is, hatred of weakness.
And I mean passionate, sadistic hatred.
And I'm not exaggerating. Believe me.
Sadistic, passionate hatred, and that's what proves they're strong, their passionate hatred for weakness.
Sometimes they will lump vulnerability in with weakness.
They do that because people tend to start humbling themselves when they're in some compromising or overwhelming circumstance, and to them, that's an obvious sign of weakness.
Kindness = weakness. Honesty = weakness.
Compromise = weakness.
They consider their very existence to be superior in every way to anyone who doesn't hate weakness as much as they do.
They consider liberals to be weak people that are inferior, almost a different species, and the fact that liberals are so weak is why they have to unite in large numbers, which they find disgusting, but it's that disgust that is a true expression of their natural superiority.
Go ahead and try to have a logical, rational conversation with them. Just keep in mind what I said here and be forewarned.”

Political orientation is like sexual orientation, you can’t win anyone over using logic. However, we could choose to not demonize each other and work together with a common cause.

Majority of Americans are not racists. I’m sure majority of conservatives are not racists... otherwise trump should’ve won the popular vote and Obama would never be president.

DNC does need to self reflect more on why and how nearly half of America would rather choose an asshole pussy grabber like Trump, then letting Hillary win. Obama won twice, so it wasn’t a fluke. Rather than expecting voters to have logic, DNC needs to use logic to pick out the best candidates that could win rather the pick the favorites that they want.

DNC is illogically repeating their mistake... there were plenty of moderates to choose from this time, but they pick the one least favorite by the people and they called themselves the democrats. Go figure.

Yeah, the strategy worked against Sanders, but will it work against Trump? Hope so... but if not, please stop blaming the voters...

[21Kid]

Man, I do far better than I have any right to and I still got fucked by Trump's taxes. My tax rate went down but I lost a ton of deductions, ended up owing $11k on my 2018 taxes after the Trump tax plan went into effect.

But imagine how bad it "could be" under Biden! #hellfire

[FaultyMario]

I agree with the woman you quoted, Bill. The "playing chicken with nature" is specially visible on that video currently doing the rounds on social media, the one at a Target store in Florida.

[2ndMoparMan]

People just aren't properly scared of this thing. If people died like, say, an ebola victim, people would take it more seriously.

[FaultyMario]

Grasping for air, for days on end, sure sounds like a fucking terrible way to go.

[FaultyMario]

Also, people seem to think that only the acute cases are grave.

This fucking thing can come in mild, chronic, "I'll punch a hole thru your heart", "I'll destroy your mesentery" or "I'll make parts of your brain go dark, forever" flavors.

[Yw-slayer]

I think certain issues of perception may stem from the use of relatively neutral terms such as "Oxygen" and "Ventilator".

I have a friend who was in pretty much all of the high-risk categories, got it in England, and who was given Oxygen. He was not in good shape during that period and took several weeks to recover.

As for "Ventilator", there may be a misconception in some areas (hopefully not on this forum) that once you are hooked up to one, you are able to happily relax and sit back there in bed while reading a magazine or playing some tap tap game on a tablet, surfing FaceGramInstaBook or whatever. The truth is that a tube gets stuck down your throat and you are actually on life support.

[Rare White Ape]

And they lay you face-down and put a tube up your wee-wee and tape a bag to your arse to collect the diarrhea which they replace once a day because you're being fed via a separate tube in your stomach.

[Yw-slayer]

Yeah, there's that bit too. I guess most Hollywood movies/TV series leave out those inconvenient bits. From watching those, anyone who's on oxygen, whether via nose or mask, is absolutely fine except for being somewhat frail. Apart from the 3 minutes where the heart rate stops and BP rises and then URGENT SHIT HAPPENS.

A bit like how you know when you watch those series/movies about lawyers and judges, and they don't actually show the hours and days spent sitting in a room poring over bundles of documents, looking at books, and typing (including on internet forums about unreality, during a break from the other stuff and playing tap tap games). I suppose that wouldn't make very good TV/movie.

[Crazed_Insanity]

About the only US city similar to Asian or European cities is probably on the east coast such as NY city. For places like LA, we're pretty separated with our mostly single house homes and our own cars to go places... so the only place in US that got a good scared was NY.

Not to mention in the Red States, populations are even more sparse and since the spread began mostly in coastal blue states 1st, it's easy for them red states to let their guard down pretending it a hoax.

We also set up a lot of temporary hospitals and a lot of them weren't put into use..., so perhaps the great work done by our medical professionals also contributed to some people thinking things are not as bad as reported?

Anyway, our political discord is the main reason why we're the greatest Covid nation on earth. Divided we fall, this is true with everything, not just with coronavirus.

[Tom Servo]

Another relative who's generally pretty level-headed just started posting things about how Bill Gates is making vaccines that permanently alter your DNA and is trying to make them compulsory.

This is getting really scary.

[G'day Mate]

Just heard the news that Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died :(

[FaultyMario]

Yeah, fuck 2020! And fuck cancer!

[Tom Servo]

Well, things just got a lot scarier since my last post, didn't they?

[FaultyMario]

The death of a giant always causes an earthquake, as we realize the sheer size of the hole her departure has produced.
But institutions should be able to survive that. Their purpose is to guarantee functionality even if we do not have titans at the helm.
If they fail to do so, that means those institutions are a lot weaker than expected.
Pointing out that has nothing to do with the merits of the person who died.
It’s recognizing that problems run deeper and are more extended than having the right person in the right place


##

[FaultyMario]

Well, things just got a lot scarier since my last post, didn't they?

Since it is expected that Mitch will postpone the Tom Cotton confirmation until after the election, you can always fund his opponent (https://secure.actblue.com/donate/am-website).

[neanderthal]

Just heard the news that Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died :(

Just saw it.

There goes the Supreme Court.

And I distinctly remember stating it was on the line. Mitch will appoint someone.

[G'day Mate]

So Mitch will bring a bit to the floor this time will he? :smh:

[neanderthal]

So Mitch will bring a bit to the floor this time will he? :smh:

He's already said he will.

Lindsey Graham is on record last time around saying "you can quote me/ use my words- there will be no appointment of a Supreme Court judge in the final year of a first term presidency." (paraphrased.) And he's the chairman of the senate judicial council.

Jamie Harrison (his opponent) will rake in a lot of money in the next week.

[Tom Servo]

Not really politics related, but of *COURSE* we have an earthquake tonight.

[drew]

Fuck 2020.



Tom Cotton or Ted Cruz will be confirmed by Friday.

Fuck every one of those assholes.

[Yw-slayer]

Incredible achievement by Billi's anti-ccp government!!! He will be thrilled!!!

[Tom Servo]

Tom Cotton or Ted Cruz will be confirmed by Friday.

My only hope there is that Cruz is supposedly famously reviled by just about every other member of the Senate, so he might actually not be able to get the votes.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The silverlining for them shoving a lame Supreme Court justice down our throats Last minute is that republicans will then likely lose the WH and senate majority.

Our court is already conservative anyways... :p IMHO, ideologically, if our court is going to error, I’d rather it error on the side of conservatism, just as personally, I’d rather error on the side of ‘caution’ or being conservative when it comes to stuff with longterm consequence...

I’d rather see the both congress and WH flipped. Those will give more immediate impact.

However, it will suck if DNC managed to lose all three. Hope not.

[Rikadyn]

Not really politics related, but of *COURSE* we have an earthquake tonight.

It was a 4.6, do you really notice those?

[Tom Servo]

Definitely. I know people who slept through it, but I was awake at the time. No big jolts, but we were moving around pretty good, and a few friends had things get knocked over/fall off shelves.

I'd categorize it as "I grabbed onto the armrest of the sofa and had both feet down ready to head to safety if needed, but I never actually got up" intensity.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Epicenter was right around my neighborhood... just few miles away! Experienced some high frequency lateral shakes, so windows got real loud for a bit but surprisingly nothing in my house/garage got knocked over.

Quite a few of my friends living further away reported it feeling much severe... I suspect the waves somehow got amplified as it traveled further... earthquakes are no big deal around here but for whatever reasons this on got more folks spooked. Probably because it’s 2020...

There’s a 6% chance in the next 3days that we’ll have a big one so we won’t have to worry about Trump and the CCP anymore... ;)

Of course there’s still a 94% chance that no big one happens and we’ll still have to worry about politics as usual...

[Rikadyn]

Definitely. I know people who slept through it, but I was awake at the time. No big jolts, but we were moving around pretty good, and a few friends had things get knocked over/fall off shelves.

I'd categorize it as "I grabbed onto the armrest of the sofa and had both feet down ready to head to safety if needed, but I never actually got up" intensity.

All the ones I experienced in Japan were around 4.5, only ever noticed them if I was at home in bed.

[MR2 Fan]

Trump "joked" tonight (I say "joked" because Trump never jokes, he never laughs, he has no sense of humor)....that he would sign an executive order that Biden can't be president. WTF

[Crazed_Insanity]

Haha.

[Tom Servo]

Remember when people criticized Obama for making too many executive orders?

[neanderthal]

Remember when people criticized Obama for making too many executive orders?

How many days did they Faux News lambast him for his tan suit.

It says a lot for his presidency that that was a ... scandal. :rolleyes:

[neanderthal]

McConnell said appointing another justice would be worth losing the Senate and White House. Because it controls the outcome of lawsuits. Which sets laws. And can drag on for years. And most of the time, nothing substantive changes during the lawsuit. If Gorsuch and Kavanaugh live to be 90ish, they've got nearly 40 more years on the bench. Add another 40 something jurist ... :sadbanana: I'll be dead and they'll still be on the SC.


All motherfuckers had to do was vote for the lady with the emails.

[Freude am Fahren]

I saw something that suggested the Democrats should make a pledge that if the Senate appoints Trump's nominee, and then they go on to win control of congress/WH, they will change the court to 13 justices, essentially neutralizing all of Trumps appointees, plus 1.

Could backfire though, as old school republicans that don't like the current GOP and may be willing to vote Left, or stay home, may change their minds.

[Jason]

Yeah I don’t like packing the court politically... even if my personal beliefs are so very against the current makeup of SCOTUS. We’re in this situation partially because Dems moved to remove the filibuster back in the Harry Reid days, and Mitch warned him it’d backfire, and it sure did. We Democrats/Progressives need to be more careful with stuff like this, because Republicans WILL use every and any advantage they can to fuck the country over.

[FaultyMario]

But aren't the circuit courts more important in setting up the legal arguments of big decisions before they reach the high court?

[FaultyMario]

Also, you should copy us. We only give supreme constitutional magistrates 9-year mandates.

[Yw-slayer]

Nah, you should copy us. We have judges from other jurisdictions sit in our court of final appeal.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah I don’t like packing the court politically... even if my personal beliefs are so very against the current makeup of SCOTUS. We’re in this situation partially because Dems moved to remove the filibuster back in the Harry Reid days, and Mitch warned him it’d backfire, and it sure did. We Democrats/Progressives need to be more careful with stuff like this, because Republicans WILL use every and any advantage they can to fuck the country over.

Yes.

[Jason]

But aren't the circuit courts more important in setting up the legal arguments of big decisions before they reacYh the high court?

Yes.

[neanderthal]

But aren't the circuit courts more important in setting up the legal arguments of big decisions before they reach the high court?

Trump's McConnell's been stacking the courts for the last four years. (https://twitter.com/BrettPransky/status/1307423232673435649?s=20)

So while that's a good point that the lower courts set much of the precedent, they've already been spoiled.

[neanderthal]

Yeah I don’t like packing the court politically... even if my personal beliefs are so very against the current makeup of SCOTUS. We’re in this situation partially because Dems moved to remove the filibuster back in the Harry Reid days, and Mitch warned him it’d backfire, and it sure did. We Democrats/Progressives need to be more careful with stuff like this, because Republicans WILL use every and any advantage they can to fuck the country over.

No lie detected.

But, I remember those days. It needed to be donebecause for the first time in almost all our recorded history the Senators refused to do their job. Legislation couldn't get passed.

While the blame should go to Harry Reid, the responsibility should go where it belongs: the Republicans who swore Obama would be a one term president.

[neanderthal]

I dislike the "both parties are the same" weak/ bullshit logic. You all know that.

https://twitter.com/magi_jay/status/1307491569868713984?s=19

[neanderthal]

I saw something that suggested the Democrats should make a pledge that if the Senate appoints Trump's nominee, and then they go on to win control of congress/WH, they will change the court to 13 justices, essentially neutralizing all of Trumps appointees, plus 1.

Could backfire though, as old school republicans that don't like the current GOP and may be willing to vote Left, or stay home, may change their minds.

As far as I'm concerned, WE SHOULD NOT BE CONCERNED WITH WHAT THE REPUBLICANS WILL DO. They aren't concerned with what we want. Their record on bipartisanship is what? Someone tell me, please. Serious question.

Two can play scorched earth, and *I'm fuckin fine with that shit.*

We win the trifecta we need to immediately make Puerto Rico and DC states.
Then pack the court. Make it fifteen.
Appoint fuckin toddlers to that shit.
Then make a constitutional amendment that requires 90% of states to ratify an increase to supreme court count in the future.
Legalise DACA recipients.
Make a path to citizenship
Invest heavily in Puerto Rico's infrastructure and rebuilding
Eliminate the electoral college.
Enact universal healthcare.

And while free college/ eliminating college debt is important free childcare is importanter! I say this as a child less male who has long said he doesn't want kids.

We can do things that we want without giving a single flying fuck what the Republicans say, want, or do if we simply ensure that they can't win either house going forward. They are never interested in reaching across the aisle, so fuck em.

DC is almost automatically two democratic Senators.
Investing in and rebuilding PR, properly, will give us a high likelihood of two there into perpetuity. Properly means sustainable electrical grid that easily rebootable after hurricanes. Hurricanes will still happen. Life afterwards should resume with minimal disturbance.

[neanderthal]

I think if Trump nominates any judges Pelosi will impeach either him or Barr, making the senate have to deal with that first. (Is that the rule? Impeachments are dealt with first? I'm too tired to look shit up.)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I dislike the "both parties are the same" weak/ bullshit logic. You all know that.

https://twitter.com/magi_jay/status/1307491569868713984?s=19

The problem with our two parties is that rather than being conservatives, they are actually con-artists. Rather being democrats, they are actually plutocrats caring more for the rich rather than ordinary citizens.

We no longer have a government of the people for the people. Which ever one wins, most of us will lose.

I can agree with you plutocrats beats conartists, but plutocrats are useless for us ordinary people. Also, when those two go head to head, of course conartists will win every time because they will never play fair...

It is really unbelievable to me that the republicans are winning the disgruntled working class votes. They are supposed to be the ones working for the rich!

Anyway, at least we cant have another billionaire judge out of nowhere... and Trump can’t nominate his own daughter... we shouldn’t have changed to 50 votes to confirm a judge... expecting those conartists to not be hypocrites is just being naive...

Plutocrats need to be craftier to beat conartists..., most importantly they need to represent the people more, pick out candidates that people truly like rather than strategizing how to get the candidate the establishment wants on the ballot...

Status quo obviously doesn’t work.

[neanderthal]

The problem with our two parties is that rather than being conservatives, they are actually con-artists. Rather being democrats, they are actually plutocrats caring more for the rich rather than ordinary citizens.

We no longer have a government of the people for the people. Which ever one wins, most of us will lose.

I can agree with you plutocrats beats conartists, but plutocrats are useless for us ordinary people. Also, when those two go head to head, of course conartists will win every time because they will never play fair...

It is really unbelievable to me that the republicans are winning the disgruntled working class votes. They are supposed to be the ones working for the rich!

Anyway, at least we cant have another billionaire judge out of nowhere... and Trump can’t nominate his own daughter... we shouldn’t have changed to 50 votes to confirm a judge... expecting those conartists to not be hypocrites is just being naive...

Plutocrats need to be craftier to beat conartists..., most importantly they need to represent the people more, pick out candidates that people truly like rather than strategizing how to get the candidate the establishment wants on the ballot...

Status quo obviously doesn’t work.

Man. 2016 third party voter opining on how the the senate should appoint judges.

Very little of what you say deserves merit/ consideration. Because bolded part.

[drew]

Mo, add to your list:

Get rid of:
Lobbying
Citizens United
3-ear-long campaign "seasons" (put a 6-8 week limit on that shit with a "salary" cap ($20M?) and NO corporate/PAC donation. Self-funded and/or domestic/grassroots only. Audit the living fuck out of it. If one penny came from somewhere prohibited, that person's campaign is over, and they are told to fuck off. The fact that campaigns last years and involve billions is fucking ridiculous. Democracy should be who gets the most votes, not who raises the most campaign money. It should also not be decided by 5-6 states (your Electoral college statement).

Then along the lines of changes to the presidency:

Tax return submission is MANDATORY.
Divest, with verifiable proof.
Anti-nepotism, because fuck that.


Any of the three new criteria not met, you're DQ'd and instructed to fuck yourself.


If nothing else, the current occupant showed everybody what a complete shitshow of corruption and self-serving the apparatus is as a whole. I think he could have done that, and still actually accomplished some positives beyond that, but that's not in his make-up. He's got a decades-long track record of being a shady grifter douchebag conman. We just gave him the keys to the biggest bank account on the planet.

[FaultyMario]

The problem with our two parties is that rather than being conservatives, they are actually con-artists. Rather being democrats, they are actually plutocrats caring more for the rich rather than ordinary citizens.

I'm going to disagree, I would say that one problem with legislative procedure in the U.S. is that the type of ethical behavior seen from someone like Sam Rayburn was never codified into regulations for the position they occupied, and thus, when people like him died or retired, those practices were lost. A society can only stand on the shoulders of giants for a limited time.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Man. 2016 third party voter opining on how the the senate should appoint judges.

Very little of what you say deserves merit/ consideration. Because bolded part.

DNC is fighting hard against the Green Party to make sure people can’t vote Green like 2016.

Johnson won way more votes that Jill Stein. DNC needs to figure out how to beat the republicans rather than Green Party.

Lastly, should’ve just let there only be 8 judges in the Supreme Court rather than lower the bar and now it’s backfiring...

Anyway, can only hope and pray, Trump and republicans won’t succeed and be beaten badly come November.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm going to disagree, I would say that one problem with legislative procedure in the U.S. is that the type of ethical behavior seen from someone like Sam Rayburn was never codified into regulations for the position they occupied, and thus, when people like him died or retired, those practices were lost. A society can only stand on the shoulders of giants for a limited time.

I agree with what you said but I’m not sure what exactly you are disagreeing with what you’ve quoted from me.

Our constitution was setup quite well in order to allow bunch of dwarfs to mess around for a while, but our system isn’t indestructible if we dont attempt any kind of reform soon.

Only hope is for Biden to pleasantly surprise us when he’s in office... but if we double down on the same path as Obama/Hillary, I’m sure things won’t go well for our future. Not that I’m implying O and H are bad people, just they prefer the rich and often failed the poor.

[neanderthal]

Mo, add to your list:

Get rid of:
Lobbying
Citizens United
3-ear-long campaign "seasons" (put a 6-8 week limit on that shit with a "salary" cap ($20M?) and NO corporate/PAC donation. Self-funded and/or domestic/grassroots only. Audit the living fuck out of it. If one penny came from somewhere prohibited, that person's campaign is over, and they are told to fuck off. The fact that campaigns last years and involve billions is fucking ridiculous. Democracy should be who gets the most votes, not who raises the most campaign money. It should also not be decided by 5-6 states (your Electoral college statement).

Then along the lines of changes to the presidency:

10 years Tax return submission is MANDATORY.
Divest, with verifiable proof.
Anti-nepotism, because fuck that.


Any of the three new criteria not met, you're DQ'd and instructed to fuck yourself.


If nothing else, the current occupant showed everybody what a complete shitshow of corruption and self-serving the apparatus is as a whole. I think he could have done that, and still actually accomplished some positives beyond that, but that's not in his make-up. He's got a decades-long track record of being a shady grifter douchebag conman. We just gave him the keys to the biggest bank account on the planet.

I'm here for allothat!

Mine was just the beginning of a much longer list, not even a list of things they needed to do on day 1. Those were just the things they need to do immediately to ratfuck the GOP into perpetuity. And i'm here for it!!! Fuck em. With a rusty running chainsaw.

Citizens Utd is a big one.
Re-enacting the Voting Rights act.
And the fairness doctrine.
Make election day a holiday.

[neanderthal]

DNC is fighting hard against the Green Party to make sure people can’t vote Green like 2016.

Johnson won way more votes that Jill Stein. DNC needs to figure out how to beat the republicans rather than Green Party.

Lastly, should’ve just let there only be 8 judges in the Supreme Court rather than lower the bar and now it’s backfiring...

Anyway, can only hope and pray, Trump and republicans won’t succeed and be beaten badly come November.

No. The Democratic Party is fighting to ensure that parties and entities that didn't fulfill the requirements to be on the ballot DON'T GET ON SAID BALLOT!!! See also; Kanye West.*

You just stay being wrong, don't you?

*And while we're at it FUCK KANYE WEST!! Mr "slavery was a choice" who recently opined that his current record contract was a "slave contract." Well, if slavery was a choice, you chose that shit muthafucker. Choke on it.

[neanderthal]

Many 3rd party voting leftists on twitter, defending their votes vis a vis the recent death of Ginsburg, coming with the "why didn't RBG retire?" but not saying shit about Breyer.

See why I stay on their ass? Where's that same energy for Breyer?

Supposed to be on the same side, but keep questioning/undermining/ harming us, not the republicans.

[MR2 Fan]

It's amazing that allowing everyone to have 1 vote in the U.S. would basically secure the Democrats have control for a while, instead of having less than 1 vote (due to the electoral college). I'm hoping when it comes to the idea of eliminating the electoral college, they really drive that point home.

[neanderthal]

It's amazing that allowing everyone to have 1 vote in the U.S. would basically secure the Democrats have control for a while, instead of having less than 1 vote (due to the electoral college). I'm hoping when it comes to the idea of eliminating the electoral college, they really drive that point home.

:up:
In leau of like button.

Electoral college.
Voter suppression.
Disenfranchisement of prior felons (don't get me started on the carceral system, police system, judicial system, school to prison pipeline, etc!!)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Many 3rd party voting leftists on twitter, defending their votes vis a vis the recent death of Ginsburg, coming with the "why didn't RBG retire?" but not saying shit about Breyer.

See why I stay on their ass? Where's that same energy for Breyer?

Supposed to be on the same side, but keep questioning/undermining/ harming us, not the republicans.

Plenty of shoulda coulda woulda blames to go around...

I agree we should be on the same side, but we are obviously not. You can continue to blame folks not on your side or find ways to work with them.

I rarely see moderate republicans trying to shutdown tea party folks... when push comes to shove, they work together to beat the liberals.

Yet, democrats are busy fighting not only the republicans, but also other liberals/progressives who disagree with them.

Why not capitalize on the momentum of the progressives to win more votes? Well, the plutocrats just don’t want to give up control to the people...

[neanderthal]

Plenty of shoulda coulda woulda blames to go around...

I agree we should be on the same side, but we are obviously not. You can continue to blame folks not on your side or find ways to work with them.

I rarely see moderate republicans trying to shutdown tea party folks... when push comes to shove, they work together to beat the liberals.

Yet, democrats are busy fighting not only the republicans, but also other liberals/progressives who disagree with them.

Why not capitalize on the momentum of the progressives to win more votes? Well, the plutocrats just don’t want to give up control to the people...

"capitalise on the momentum of the progressives ..."


Wait. You mean those fuckers who
A have an abysmal success rate at the polls
B constantly deride and attack us
C threaten, and then follow through, on voting third party.

Well. If they showed solidarity in the general that'd be a consideration. We'll try the undecideds and non voters. They're, literally, more reliable.

I work with anyone who works with me for the greater good. Those who don't, fool me once ...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Obama was the ‘progressive’ against Hillary. Who won in the end?

Sanders problem was that he wasn’t as charismatic as Obama, but he was the leading candidate when all candidates were free to campaign for themselves during the primary.

DNC didn’t want to allow the process to naturally play out so they intervened to make sure things play out in their favor.

Imagine if RNC successful fended off Trump, Hillary probably would have a better chance at winning in 2016...

Anyway, I just get the feeling that most diehard democrats are like you, if I don’t fall in line with the party, then I’m a deplorable person. Whatever. However, does the DNC really listen to the people?

Be honest, who in Washington listens to the people? At least Trump pretends to.

If DNC really listens to the people, they would not have suppressed Sanders in 2016 and meddled with the primary in 2020, which resulted in a candidate who was nobody’s favorite.

Yes, blame all that to deplorable 3rd party voters like myself.

[neanderthal]

It's just hit me that Hillary would have had 2 Supreme Court appointees. And given that she is the one who prodded Bill to look into nominating RBG (and he said he'd made up his mind within ten minutes of meeting her) i'm dismayed at how awesome our Supreme Court could have been.

The only thing worse than the people on the left who didn't vote for Hillary, are the ones who are still insisting that it was somehow smart, moral and appropriate. Given that she clearly warned us (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/02/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-speech-foreign-policy-security) what would happen. Clearly. Like she had seen the future.

But fucksticks will fuckstick.

[Jason]

It's amazing that allowing everyone to have 1 vote in the U.S. would basically secure the Democrats have control for a while, instead of having less than 1 vote (due to the electoral college). I'm hoping when it comes to the idea of eliminating the electoral college, they really drive that point home.

The whole point of the Electoral College was to keep the US from falling into the hands of a dangerous populist, but that clearly failed, so yeah it’s time for POTUS to be decided by popular vote. After all they are the representative of all people, not all lands.

[Tom Servo]

Many 3rd party voting leftists on twitter, defending their votes vis a vis the recent death of Ginsburg, coming with the "why didn't RBG retire?" but not saying shit about Breyer.

See why I stay on their ass? Where's that same energy for Breyer?

Supposed to be on the same side, but keep questioning/undermining/ harming us, not the republicans.

Hell, can we all just remember that Justice Kennedy turned out to be a big dumb self-serving piece of shit?

[Yw-slayer]

"SEPARATION OF POWERS!!!1!!!!!!!121!1!" yell Billi and his friends.

Meanwhile, what I see here is arguments about who should be nominated by the President to be a Supreme Court Judge, with no term limits, and whether they are left-leaning or right-leaning, and how this will affect the law, etc. etc. etc.

gg man

[Crazed_Insanity]

The whole point of the Electoral College was to keep the US from falling into the hands of a dangerous populist, but that clearly failed, so yeah it’s time for POTUS to be decided by popular vote. After all they are the representative of all people, not all lands.

I disagree. I personally like the wisdom of EC because it protects the little states. I wish we can have the equivalent for individual voters to protect the little guys too...

As it is, politicians are already ignoring the smaller states, abolishing EC will only further increase the ‘wealth gap’ between the big rich states and the little poor states. EC forces the politicians to not forget about the smaller states.

Without EC, it’ll be much easier for the big states with more people to bully smaller states... of course right now it feels like the minority has hijacked our nation, but just like when we felt like the senate minority was hijacking Obama’s nominees... by changing the rules, I do believe it will come back to haunt us.

Anyway, I do generally agree with majority rule in a democratic society, but if a state flips color under your watch, I think it’s also fair that the party pays some price for that.

[Tom Servo]

I'm not sure that 100% tracks. Once again, we're deep into a presidential election and California, outside of the fires, hasn't been mentioned all that much. It's less smaller states vs. bigger states, it just focuses on swing states.

[Crazed_Insanity]

For sure EC is not perfect, however, I really do believe it works. Speaking of swing states... whenever we do not have landslide victories, whenever election results are super close, don't you think it'd be much better to recount just the state, rather than recounting the entire nation? Imagine if population grows to a level like China and India..., this makes democracy very very difficult and expensive if we have a super tight race. Imagine if we have a billion votes cast, what kind of margin of victory is acceptable for the public to accept without recount? 1 vote? 10 votes? 100 votes? 1000 votes? I believe EC will give us a more 'clear cut' winner, eventhough occasionally it fucks up and allow the popular vote winner to lose...

Speaking of swing states, CA really has very little reason to swing for now. As for the other states, why are they swinging? That's something party leadership needs to figure out and make adjustments to rather than just blaming political oppositions whether it's the dumb voters or assholes like Trump. Also, it makes sense for politicians to focus their attention at the 'undecided', right? So what's wrong with them focusing on the swing undecided states? Better that than allow them to feel that yeah we already bagged CA, screw those little swing states. We absolutely need to swing those states back to blue. The more we flipped, the less we need to worry about QAnon and white supremacy groups. Democrats should not just rely on the massive wealth and population of CA and NY.

Democrats really need to do some soul searching and figure out what the 'demo' want... and the try to swing and unite as many of the states together as they can.

Obama a black dude was able to do it. Personally, I think that showed America isn't a racist nation anymore and people do tend to prefer outsiders than washington insiders.

Problem with Obama later on was that he has turned more and more insider... and Hillary was just the wrong person to pick up where he left off. She couldn't beat Obama 8 years ago. She did not become more favorable 8 years later. Only the establishment thought Hillary was their best shot... and during the peak of anti-establishment period, naturally she lost to an outsider pussy grabber.

And now according to Neanderthal, the blame should fall squarely on Billi for voting Jill Stien as a protest.

Anyway, of course I personally don't believe we need to blame Billi or the Electoral College. If we had a better candidate, things would have worked out better.

[sandydandy]

In other news it looks like the person who sent the ricin letter to Trump was a woman from Quebec. She was arrested at the border. Canada doing its part to rid the world of this disease known as the Donald, in an obvious misguided and pointless attempt. But I guess it's the thought that counts. :lol:

Hopefully America can get rid of him properly on November 3rd.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Thank you Canada, we hope we won't let you down... fingers crossed...

[Rare White Ape]

https://youtu.be/gsaO3v4SvwA

[Yw-slayer]

In other news it looks like the person who sent the ricin letter to Trump was a woman from Quebec. She was arrested at the border. Canada doing its part to rid the world of this disease known as the Donald, in an obvious misguided and pointless attempt. But I guess it's the thought that counts. :lol:

Hopefully America can get rid of him properly on November 3rd.

Good thing you live in Canada because if you lived in the US, the Secret Service might have something to say to you! I guess just be careful the next time (if?) you cross the border.

[sandydandy]

What do you mean? I didn't say anything even remotely threatening to the esteemed Monarch of the United States. Just laughed at the pathetic attempt on his life.

[neanderthal]

I told y'all the court was on the line on 2016.

And now the Republicans fucksticks have fucksticked. Mitch has the votes he needs to ram through another justice.

I don't trust a single Republican.

And this further comments the idea that we should go scorched earth if we win the trifecta. Fuck that bipartisan bullshit.

Our "bipartisan" offer to them should be for them to watch is completely fuck them over forever.

End citizens united.
Make PR and DC states.
Make election day a national holiday (and Columbus day first nations day!)
Ratify the VRA in perpetuity.
21 supreme court justices. Twenty fuckin one. They can rotate. Put seven or more 30 something's on that shit.
Make President Obama and President Hillary Clinton supreme court justices. Who else do they hate, Farakhan?
Enact universal healthcare.
DACAs get green cards
Make a path to citizenship.

Fuck REPUBLICANS. Every single one of them. And errbody didn't vote for Hillary.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What do you mean? I didn't say anything even remotely threatening to the esteemed Monarch of the United States. Just laughed at the pathetic attempt on his life.

I think he's confusing Trump with his own fierce leader Xi. Anti-CCP folks have mocked Xi as Winnie the Pooh... and Trump is literally orange and now shaped like Pooh too! Plus, nowadays, ICE could detain you and forcibly remove your uterus or ovaries... so extra precaution is probably a good idea.

Plus, why would you want to risk catching Covid19? Just stay away, for now. :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

I told y'all the court was on the line on 2016.

And now the Republicans fucksticks have fucksticked. Mitch had the votes he needs to take through another justice.

I don't trust a single Republican.

And this further comments the idea that we should go scorched earth if we win the trifecta.

Chill out dude.

I have plenty of I told you so too.

We need to focus on the future more!

If we didn't change the way we nominate justices in the past, things probably would've worked out better with 8 justices.

There are plenty of fuck ups to go around.

You scorch somebody when you can now, rest assure somebody will scorch you back when they can. That's not the way.

[neanderthal]

https://twitter.com/darylsturgis/status/1308404261353598984?s=19

[neanderthal]

Chill out dude.

I have plenty of I told you so too.

We need to focus on the future more!

If we didn't change the way we nominate justices in the past, things probably would've worked out better with 8 justices.

There are plenty of fuck ups to go around.

You scorch somebody when you can now, rest assure somebody will scorch you back when they can. That's not the way.

Maybe you should have focused on the future in 2016. Fuck sticks like YOU are the entire reason why we are here where we are now.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Maybe you should have focused on the future in 2016. Fuck sticks like YOU are the entire reason why we are here where we are now.

I can admit that I'm partially the reason. For sure I'm not the reason for the rise of Trump. Trump did not rise for no reason. DNC's answer to Trump was also not very good. DNC nominated the most established candidate into a world when anti-establishment sentiments were peaking and suppressed their own anti-establishment candidate every step of the way... If she was really so good, why didn't she run again? Why did Bernie the loser ran again and was leading for a while until a master stroke move by Obama...

At least this time Biden is a bit better than Hillary. Not that he's less 'established', but I think at least he's more personable? Plus, Trump is now a known quantity. No need to give him anymore benefit of the doubt for those moderate voters.

Lastly, given that supreme court justices are lifetime appointments, we should've never lowered the bar. Perhaps we should consider lowering the bar if we only have one senile justice left... considering there were 8 of them, what's the big deal if we couldn't nominate anybody?

Whenever we make a 'political' move, chances are things will backfire. Because if you think this new thing is good for you now... tide just might swing to make it good for 'them' too! It's better to make changes that are better for the entire nation regardless who's in charge. Proper fix should be to try to win more senate seats... or nominate left leaning judges that some conservatives are okay with. Not lowering the bar.

[FaultyMario]

Make PR and DC states.


Does the clear majority of Boricuas want that? That always strike me as a colonial position, you know, to rule for others.

[FaultyMario]

Please read this twitter thread (https://twitter.com/_adasgupta/status/1308381131000000514?s=20)by UC-Merced assistant professor Aditya Dasgupta. A mis-coding of a time variable by the OAS scientists working the data from Bolivia's 2019 election led to the "sharp discontinuity" that was used to accuse Evo Morales's MAS formula of committing voter fraud. There was none of that, but it took more than a year to do the replications that proved the accusations were based on wrong assumptions.

Professor Dasgupta argues that with a polarized election coming up, data scientists have got to be super transparent with their methods.

[JoshInKC]

Does the clear majority of Boricuas want that? That always strike me as a colonial position, you know, to rule for others.
That's a good question- My friends of that persuasion are all for statehood, but then they're also up here attending/having attended school, primarily in the sciences - so probably not a representative sample.
I honestly don't know what polling has been like over the past several years, but it has historically swung back and forth quite a bit. I'd assume that either statehood or independence would be preferable to the middleground position they're in now.

[neanderthal]

They voted on it a few years back.

[FaultyMario]

They voted on it a few years back.

97% voted for statehood in 2017. In the midst of a boycott of the referendum that saw close to 80% abstention.

Most polls put the "for" vote swinging between 45 to 55. That does not sound like "clear majority" to me.

[FaultyMario]

Also, if the goal is to have more liberal votes, I wouldn't look for them in the Caribbean. Plantation societies lean conservative.

[Yw-slayer]

What do you mean? I didn't say anything even remotely threatening to the esteemed Monarch of the United States. Just laughed at the pathetic attempt on his life.

That's what you think, let the secret service decide! :D

Don't worry, I'm just kidding and I haven't reported you. I'm not like Roofer, who once implied he would report me to the US authorities for no good reason other than the fact that we were arguing at an Internet forum.

[George]

That's what you think, let the secret service decide! :D

I haven't searched anything about this letter situation, and I deliberately don't watch much news these days, but I've been wondering how she got caught. Return address on envelope? Fingerprints? DNA on the envelope adhesive where she licked it? Somebody dropped a dime?

I figured there's no good way I can search for these answers without having a hard time explaining to the SS what I was looking for.

Of course I'm not seriously worried, and yet, there's a little part of me saying discretion is the better part of curiosity these days...at least when it comes to methods of...well...'nuff said.

[JoshInKC]

Could be any of those, or more likely she mailed it from her local post office and a was caught on camera dropping it into the slot. People who do really dumb crimes like this tend to be really dumb.

[neanderthal]

https://twitter.com/darylsturgis/status/1308404261353598984?s=19

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, what Harry Reid did back then was most certainly understandable. Just as today we might feel that Electoral College sucks and robbed Hillary Clinton the win back in 2016.

I guess it's difficult to say which rule is more right or which rule's broken, but I do get the feeling that somehow republicans are better at playing with existing rules to their advantage... and they also are better at changing the rule to their advantage. Republicans may appear dumb and deplorable, but they play this game better than the democrats for some reason...

Like I said, maybe it's better that they get this judge thing over with before the election. If we wait til after election, surely more conservatives will WANT to vote Trump in just because they want a conservative president nominate the next judge. Even Repulbicans against Trump will be forced to back Trump.

I most certainly don't want Trump for another 4 years. I can tolerate a conservative judge.

[Tom Servo]

I'm not like Roofer, who once implied he would report me to the US authorities for no good reason other than the fact that we were arguing at an Internet forum.

How do I not know this story?

[FaultyMario]

Speaking of the electoral college, this came out on The Atlantic today. The Election That Could Break America (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/). I think some of the arguments in the article are a bit flawed, but this caught my eye:


According to sources in the Republican Party at the state and national levels, the Trump campaign is discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors in battleground states where Republicans hold the legislative majority.

The Atlantic is behind a paywall, but it is less annoying than others.

[Leon]

How do I not know this story?

This is my surprised face to read that Roofer would have threatened this [Random face]

[FaultyMario]

You mean :random: ?

[Crazed_Insanity]

:word:

[Rare White Ape]

I miss Roofer. It would’ve made my day every day to toy with him over the last 12 months.

[sandydandy]

I’m still friends with roofer on Facebook. He posts a lot of positive stuff these days, no more alt-right propaganda. He loves his guns which is perfectly fine. I was unfollowing him for a long time, but now following again. He’s a good guy at heart.

I imagine things might change if Biden wins the election.

[Tom Servo]

I'm glad to hear that. By the time he blocked me his main activity seemed to be trying to antagonize the libs.

[sandydandy]

Well yeah, he still does that with memes. But in a playful way. No stuff from far-right fake news sites though, (ie. Young Cons).

[Rare White Ape]

Wow really? I thought he would’ve sunk right into that.

He blocked me during the Obama days, he hated that president.

But I suppose, his love of guns and RW talking points back then seemed on the edge, but the window has moved so far that it’s all very normal and reasonable these days.

[FaultyMario]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR8oIitE6mI

Please you guys, vote him out.

[MR2 Fan]

The Trump Coup Plot:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/09/trump-campaign-election-coup-bypass-biden-win

[2ndMoparMan]

This is fucking terrifying.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This is wonderful. The right is terrified by the QAnon conspiracies and the left is also being terrified by these supposed plots... This is probably not going to end well. Both sides are being driven by fear...

Worst case scenario, let's say Trump successfully becomes a dictator, do you guys really believe the freedom and gun loving right will really accept that? Will they really be brain washed sufficiently to give up their freedom and their guns so dictator Trump can make America great again and rule the world?

I somehow don't think so.

Anyway, I get the feeling Breonna Taylor thing is going to start another revolution...

[FaultyMario]

Don't quote me, cause I'm on the level of your alarmist aunt, but I think you're in between levels 5 or 6 (https://www.genocidewatch.com/ten-stages-genocide) of the 10.

Shit gun get uglee beyotch.

[JoshInKC]

Worst case scenario, let's say Trump successfully becomes a dictator, do you guys really believe the freedom and gun loving right will really accept that? Will they really be brain washed sufficiently to give up their freedom and their guns so dictator Trump can make America great again and rule the world?
I think you're missing out on the fact that dictatorships are typically welcomed by a good-sized portion of the population. And, if we're looking at trump as an incipient dictatorship he doesn't want them to give up their guns - he wants them to feel like he's the one who let them keep their guns when everybody else wants to lock them up and turn them gay with coronavirus or whatever.
All these supposedly freedom-loving libertarian guys were never actually about freedom for everybody- they were always into freedom for themselves (especially freedom from consequences), and everybody else can go screw or get shot. Those are the assholes vying for a spot in the brownshirts or gestapo.
The whole point for them is that they'll get to keep their guns and use them.

[MR2 Fan]

The good news is that Trump seems to be telegraphing his moves, and what was said today and the past couple of days has gone quite viral from what I'm seeing.

The time of "oh he's not serious/he's just joking" are coming to an end for more people.

Trump also doesn't have near any majority of popularity. Reminder he "lost" by 3 million votes last time.

Now the news media needs to ask EVERY GOP member to either support or denounce Trump's insane statements

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think you're missing out on the fact that dictatorships are typically welcomed by a good-sized portion of the population. And, if we're looking at trump as an incipient dictatorship he doesn't want them to give up their guns - he wants them to feel like he's the one who let them keep their guns when everybody else wants to lock them up and turn them gay with coronavirus or whatever.
All these supposedly freedom-loving libertarian guys were never actually about freedom for everybody- they were always into freedom for themselves (especially freedom from consequences), and everybody else can go screw or get shot. Those are the assholes vying for a spot in the brownshirts or gestapo.
The whole point for them is that they'll get to keep their guns and use them.

My point is that dictators cant possibly mix very well with people under him with firearms.

Selfish bastards with guns cannot possibly continue to live happily ever after together. Something has to give.

With his supporters still love him after 8 years? Will roofer really unconditionally support trump indefinitely? I kinda doubt that.

I still have some faith in the US constitution, and the American people... and I’m pretty sure the folks who enabled, covered up, and eventually executed Jeff Epstein won’t allow Trump to rule indefinitely.

Ultimately of course I believe God will help us thru our troubles and restore everything! :p

Point is as screwed up as it is, we need to get our fear under control.

[Yw-slayer]

How do I not know this story?

It was a long time ago. He basically insinuated that he could make my life difficult if I ever travelled to the USA because, well, he's American and I'm not. In other words, "Ve haf vays". I remember it quite vividly as it was after 2001 and as my nationality means I am not usually treated with kid gloves anyway when seeking to enter the US.

Although I think he calmed down after that and may have said sorry, when someone insinuates something like that, even over the Internet, you #NeverForget.

[sandydandy]

Worst case scenario, let's say Trump successfully becomes a dictator, do you guys really believe the freedom and gun loving right will really accept that? Will they really be brain washed sufficiently to give up their freedom and their guns so dictator Trump can make America great again and rule the world?

I somehow don't think so I think so. I don’t think they give two shits about anything other than their man in the White House.

[FaultyMario]

I think so. I don’t think they give two shits about anything other than their man in the White House.

If pinning the blame for the Breonna Taylor racial tensions on Mr. dog-faced pony soldier is anything to go by, then yes, they just wanna see the libs' boat sink.

[Rare White Ape]

Methinks this discussion is deeper than some of us think it is. Just an observation.

[Rare White Ape]

Also, YW, you're a smart guy. The angle you took about Roofer is one that I never would've caught. His alleged threat could have had real repercussions for you if you ever needed to travel to the US on a professional basis.

You just never know which kinda fuckwit you're arguing with on the internet.

[Cam]

Do not delude yourselves or others. He still writes crazy, hypocritical shit and threatens people.

3616

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think so. I don’t think they give two shits about anything other than their man in the White House.

When Trump has successfully became a dictator, there will be no more liberal/socialist/communists/democrats. Yes, there’ll be no more options other than their man, Hitler II, in the White House permanently.

Even if they successfully slaughter or locked up us all non-conservatives, I think it should be a matter of time when his supporters will no longer be okay with it. His license to grab pussies freely was based on his supporters’ desire to defeat the liberals. Once there are no more liberals to worry about, they should eventually realize Trump sucks as a leader.

Anyway, I don’t think this worse case scenario will happen, although most in the military are conservatives, but I also believe most in the military have their loyalty to the constitution and would not allow trump to easily change it...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Do not delude yourselves or others. He still writes crazy, hypocritical shit and threatens people.

3616

His real name is really roofer?

Why is he hiding behind his profession?

I shall make him choose to wear his mask, but anyway, maybe not. It’s too far away... :p

For what it’s worth, roofer has never ignored me. Well, he did leave the entire community but prior to that he never ignored me! :p

[balki]

I still like roofer.
I know a couple of people like him IRL.
Really good guys with extreme political views. I also know fellow centralists who are just real POS's.
Can't win them all.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If pinning the blame for the Breonna Taylor racial tensions on Mr. dog-faced pony soldier is anything to go by, then yes, they just wanna see the libs' boat sink.

My worst case scenario was based the liberal boat being at the bottom of the sea already. Black lives gone. Mexican lives spayed/neutered. Trump permanently in the White House and has remodeled it into a gold tower and surrounded the US with a wall so we can keep coronavirus within our borders...

I just don’t think all the roofer types will continue to love their new Hitler. Sooner or later, either guns will be taken away, of people will start a revolution to overthrow trump.

[FaultyMario]

Dude, it's the same boat for everyone.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Jews and the Germans were definitely not on the same boat.

Rich and poor are not on the same boat.

Black lives and locked up mexican lives are not on the same boat.

Some folks are stuck on sinking boats. Just saying if liberals were all sunk... the conservative boats will eventually fracture as well... There can't possibly be happily ever after for Trump and his supporters. This cancer will not only sink others, but destroy themselves too.

Of course you're right too. If the US boat sinks, it'll likely drag down the rest of the world. From that perspective, we're all on the same boat.

[FaultyMario]

The Death Of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg Pushed Me To Join The Satanic Temple (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rbg-mom-joins-satanic-temple_n_5f6b3565c5b629afbe990c15)


In the hours after Justice Ginsburg’s death, I sat wondering what the future would hold for my daughters. Their ability to live in a country where the religious beliefs of others would not play a role in their right to assert autonomy over their own bodies was suddenly, starkly, in danger. Traditional means of keeping abortion safe and legal seemed woefully inadequate to protect the rights that women in the generation before me had fought so hard to secure.

[FaultyMario]

From that perspective, we're all on the same boat.

Yes, the boat was meant as a metaphor for the United States.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The Death Of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg Pushed Me To Join The Satanic Temple (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rbg-mom-joins-satanic-temple_n_5f6b3565c5b629afbe990c15)

This is the type of fear I was warning against. This lady is as fucking nuts as the believers of QAnon and she's fulfilling the QAnan conspiracy for them. You don't need to join a temple that has a name Satanic on it in order to be rebel.

Imagine if Martin Luther rebelled against the Catholic Church by joining or starting the Satanic Church... surely a lot of good would come out of that...? :rolleyes:

Why can't you call yourselves something more positive or less evil?

As bad as it is... or perhaps thing will get much worse... I still believe God is in control of it all.

[FaultyMario]

No, Patrick, mayonnaise is not an instrument.

[Jason]

Went and voted today, was really easy in Virginia. Hopefully other states are as easy and approachable.

[FaultyMario]

Thank you.

[sandydandy]

Do not delude yourselves or others. He still writes crazy, hypocritical shit and threatens people.

3616 I must've missed that.


Went and voted today, was really easy in Virginia. Hopefully other states are as easy and approachable. :up:

[sandydandy]

no more alt-right propaganda.


No stuff from far-right fake news sites though, (ie. Young Cons). So much for that shit. He just posted some fake bullshit from Breaking911. Maybe it's time to unfollow again. :|

Still think he's a good guy, but should really better scrutinize his sources of information.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Maybe I should add him as FB friend to convince him why masks are important and why certain conspiracies can be dangers... :D

I do kinda miss debating/arguing with him..., I do agree he has a good heart.

[drew]

Do not delude yourselves or others. He still writes crazy, hypocritical shit and threatens people.

3616

Well, that's depressing. I had to detach about a week after the election when he started going after family and friends of mine, that he didn't know.

[George]

Went and voted today, was really easy in Virginia. Hopefully other states are as easy and approachable.

We're waiting for our ballots in the mail and will go drop them off as soon as we can. There are ballot boxes similar to mailboxes outside some government offices such as the DMV.

Vote early and vote often!

[Tom Servo]

Still think he's a good guy, but should really better scrutinize his sources of information.

I've gotten a lot of shit on here for disagreeing with that, but fuck it. He makes it his personal mission to piss people off who disagree with him, and then gets all bent out of shape and blocks supposed decades-long friends when challenged on his nonsense.

I used to think he's a good person, but that's because in person he can be nice and charming. His actions have lead me to believe otherwise.

[George]

Do not delude yourselves or others. He still writes crazy, hypocritical shit and threatens people.

3616

Wow. What an asshole.

I used to agree with him about some things, but that was a long time ago...as in Kenji's forum.

[sandydandy]

I've gotten a lot of shit on here for disagreeing with that, but fuck it. He makes it his personal mission to piss people off who disagree with him, and then gets all bent out of shape and blocks supposed decades-long friends when challenged on his nonsense.

I used to think he's a good person, but that's because in person he can be nice and charming. His actions have lead me to believe otherwise. I can understand that. I’ve witnessed his other friendships deteriorate and it’s sad to watch. Back when we used to fight, (this going way back, probably to the first GTX), I was told by someone to back off because if push came to shove half the forum would have his back, even though it was a time when he was at war with half the forum. Obviously that wouldn’t still be the case today, he’s burned so many bridges.

Part of the reason why I remain friends with him is because we’re kind of relatable in terms of our business situations, at least that’s what it was initially. I don’t want to drop him because he’s always been cool with me since we stopped fighting, and have never seen him make any racial remarks. I guess that would break it for me if it ever happened, I doubt it would.

As far as antagonizing liberals I couldn’t care less. Both sides antagonize each other. I don’t have a problem with someone being a conservative, because I am one too, (actually I oscillate between left and right, mostly hover around center). I think John the Roofer is well within his rights to revel in Trump’s 2016 victory, I just hope he doesn’t get the chance again!

I just hate it when he cites shady sources for his information. This is something that works both ways. Liberals are equally guilty of posting bullshit news, (ie. Occupy Democrats).

[Yw-slayer]

Also, YW, you're a smart guy. The angle you took about Roofer is one that I never would've caught. His alleged threat could have had real repercussions for you if you ever needed to travel to the US on a professional basis.

You just never know which kinda fuckwit you're arguing with on the internet.

Thanks bro. It could have had ramifications even if I was travelling there for leisure.

Anyway, that's all now well in the past. I also have no plans to go to the US anytime soon. Actually, I was supposed to be there next week for a good friend's wedding etc. But as they live here anyway, that whole trip has been cancelled due to, uh, public health reasons.

[Jason]

Maybe I'm not familiar with Roofer's place in life, but I doubt he could have actually made life difficult for you. He would have wasted law enforcement's time, and depending on what he claimed to who, it could have backfired spectacularly.

[Rikadyn]

https://i.redd.it/od4lbqffr6p51.jpg

[neanderthal]

https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1309364249546887169?s=19

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think the guy made valid points.

However, as much as I applaud Trump to not starting wars and be tough with China and other foreign policies, Trump's sub-par to down right scary performance at home is enough for me to actually want to vote Biden.

[Yw-slayer]

Maybe I'm not familiar with Roofer's place in life, but I doubt he could have actually made life difficult for you. He would have wasted law enforcement's time, and depending on what he claimed to who, it could have backfired spectacularly.

Maybe. But would it be worth the risk of finding out who was righr, especially during the Bush years? I doubt it.

The other way of looking at it was that it was a threat, even if it was an empty one.

On reflection, it may have been though PM, which may explain why Servo wasn't aware of it. But it was definitely insinuated.

[Jason]

I’m not saying it wasn’t shitty of him, or that you should have taken the chance... just that it was likely a very very empty and toothless threat, that’s all. Anyways, I’m glad we’re generally done with him. I don’t necessarily mind knowing conservatives, but there’s a certain level that I just don’t both dealing with, and that’s where he’s at.

[neanderthal]

Just got another reminder why I don't like Bernie.

https://twitter.com/josecanyousee/status/1309349140359294977?s=09

[FaultyMario]

Is that an onlyfans tweet, too?

[Tom Servo]

The full deposition video in the lawsuit against Trump University was leaked. Mother Jones' writeup. (https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/09/donald-trump-university-fraud-lawsuit-deposition-full-video/)

[George]

Trump haters pull no punches in Denver!

https://i.postimg.cc/C1gXrLRG/IMG-6167.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just got another reminder why I don't like Bernie.

https://twitter.com/josecanyousee/status/1309349140359294977?s=09

Why do you need to like Bernie? Stop trying so hard, give it up already. We all know you don’t like Bernie. You don’t need to be reminded again and again. Focus on Biden and Kamala already.

I don’t constantly remind myself why I don’t like Hillary... because it’s a waste of time and mental energy. Let it go.

[Tom Servo]

Probably because he just saw that tweet and felt like posting it.

Maybe unless he's addressing you directly, just ignore it?

[neanderthal]

There it is folks. Same as it was four years ago. Same as it's ever been.

https://twitter.com/HawaiiDelilah/status/1309675375778127873?s=19

[Crazed_Insanity]

Probably because he just saw that tweet and felt like posting it.

Maybe unless he's addressing you directly, just ignore it?

Hmmm, okay. It's just that sometimes I have a problem ignoring people. :p

I also personally believe democrats really should 1st save the people rather than the economy. I thought only republicans are suppose to focus on the economy?

If the average American people are taken care off, I'm sure US economy won't be bad either. If Democrats focuses on the people more, surely there'd be no more need for somebody like Bernie Sanders.

[neanderthal]

I hope that protest vote was worth it.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/21446700/amy-coney-barrett-trump-supreme-court?__twitter_impression=true

Anti abortion. Anti health care. Anti gun control. Seemingly anti gay marriage.

Will sit on that bench for forty years ...

[Jason]

Gotta hand it to Republicans in that way, they are much better at politics than Democrats are, even if they are terrible at governing. She’s a damned baby, and is going to be there forever, damn.

I’m uncomfortable with the idea of court packing, but we might have to go that route if we take back the senate, then pass a law banning it going forward or some shady shit.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes.

[neanderthal]

Gotta hand it to Republicans in that way, they are much better at politics than Democrats are, even if they are terrible at governing. She’s a damned baby, and is going to be there forever, damn.

I’m uncomfortable with the idea of court packing, but we might have to go that route if we take back the senate, then pass a law banning it going forward or some shady shit.

They're much better at doing what they want to do without concessions/ compromises. And that's why i'm in favor of a massive scorched earth series of bills and amendments if we win the tri fecta. Day one. Healthcare. Voting rights. Abortion. Gay marriage and rights. Citizens United. DACA. Path to citizenship.
Day two should be the same. Reverse the Trump tax cuts. Eliminate the social security income cap. Fix education. Free daycare. Eliminate qualified immunity.

It should be a procession of bills from the house to the senate to the white house. Biden should be tired of signing shit by end of the week.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just heard the short speech by the possible future Supreme Court justice... Amy doesn’t sound that bad...

I don’t mind allowing her to be the new justice if liberals could finally win the senate and the WH back.

[FaultyMario]

Biden should be tired of signing shit by end of the week.

Tired? He's going to be signing shit des-pa-ci-to.




Don't mind me, I know the way out.

[JoeW]

Not sure I have ever posted in here but jeezus you guys are hot about politics. 1700+ pages...fuuuck.

Didn’t know all you guys were FB friends...now I feel like an outsider piece of doodoo.

[Freude am Fahren]

Change your posts per page, it's only 436 pages :lol:

[FaultyMario]

Former Scalia clerk tells cbs why it's wrong to fill a Scotus vacancy in an election year. (https://youtu.be/cL55t3YBGII)

[Freude am Fahren]

Gee, I wonder what she's up to these days.

:lol:

As if previous words mattered at all in this fucking shithole country anyway.

[Tom Servo]

So, this is happening: https://twitter.com/StateDept/status/1309938304268279811

(in case it gets deleted, here's a screengrab - the account is verified)

https://i.imgur.com/BVFSWCB.jpg

[MR2 Fan]

what does "natural 20s" mean?

[JoeW]

It’s a D&D reference. Meaning the best dice roll possible.

Basically saying their Gaslighting game is on point :)

[FaultyMario]

Gee, I wonder what she's up to these days.

:lol:


I know, right?

[FaultyMario]

I was not expecting this apology from a major media outlet. (https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-09-27/los-angeles-times-apology-racism)


[We] largely ignored the context — the social and economic upheaval brought about by wartime mobilization and the racist trope of threatened white womanhood — and blamed the victims instead of their assailants.

[Leon]

It’s a D&D reference. Meaning the best dice roll possible.

Basically saying their Gaslighting game is on point :)

as a nerd, I am loving that the D&D reference is a thing :)

Also, how bout those tax returns eh?

[Tom Servo]

I feel like I don't know enough about tax law to fully understand all of that outside of "rich people have great loopholes". The one thing that jumped out at me, though, was that clearly money was being funneled to Ivanka and being written off as part of that, that seems like pretty clear cut tax fraud.

[sandydandy]

Trump calling the NYT tax story fake news. What else is new?

[MR2 Fan]

That's great, so he can release his REAL taxes and prove it...right? right??

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjAVkdmVgAIuA-s.jpg

[MR2 Fan]

So, odds on if Trump decides to skip the debate tomorrow night?

[sandydandy]

That's great, so he can release his REAL taxes and prove it...right? right?? Hah, they're under audit. Supposedly. Three year audit that mysteriously started when he took office. He'll never reveal them.


So, odds on if Trump decides to skip the debate tomorrow night? I hope not. It's going to be great to watch. I downgraded my cable package over the summer, and lost US news channels. Thinking of adding some back just to watch the election stuff. Debates, ANALysis and election night itself. It's going to be must-see TV the next month and a half or so.

[FaultyMario]

Didn't CNN (or whatever outlet) put up a stream for the debate? They want MAXIMUM audience IIRC.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I dunno... I really don't think the debates will be worth watching... particularly for Americans. If anything, it'll probably just make you more upset or annoyed... watching Trump lie thru his teeth.

I think I heard this from NPR, somebody said this election, and most likely most elections, we can't really persuade people to switch sides. People will vote for whoever they want to vote for. Perhaps very very small percentage of voters are truly undecided..., but mostly we just need to persuade a greater percentage of registered voters to actually cast a vote.

Obama pulled this off, but Hillary didn't. Hopefully Biden will do better than Hillary...

Anyway, if there's really some sort of tax fraud, hopefully IRS will do something...

[sandydandy]

Didn't CNN (or whatever outlet) put up a stream for the debate? They want MAXIMUM audience IIRC. Oh I didn’t know that. Maybe I’ll check that out instead of adding channels. Save some money.

[neanderthal]

https://twitter.com/Bros4Joe/status/1310351505564692480?s=19

[Crazed_Insanity]

These are for Californians, but if you have an opinion, feel free to chime in.
More details of these CA propositions can be found here: https://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/propositions/

I've often complained to Swervo that CA legislators sucks and could often kick the responsibility of law making to the people often with confusing descriptions... I suppose the good thing is that we voters can have a say whenever legislators remain in gridlock, but I still often feel uncomfortable voting for these propositions. My default is just a no if I don't know anything about it or have certain reservations... only voting yes if I really understand it and want it to pass. I'd appreciate if you guys have any feedbacks...

14 Authorizes Bonds Continuing Stem Cell Research. Initiative Statute.
I'm incline to vote no on this. If we were the federal govt and can print our own money, then for sure this can be a worthwhile investment. I'm just not so sure we absolutely need to borrow billions more to fund this research in the middle of the pandemic. Don't we have other more urgent medical/healthcare related things to borrow money for? Why should this be on the top of the list?

15 Increases Funding Sources for Public Schools, Community Colleges, and Local Government Services by Changing Tax Assessment of Commercial and Industrial Property. Initiative Constitutional Amendment.
Supposedly this is a tax reform that plugs loopholes for the wealth corporations and will actually cut taxes for the small businesses... so I'll yes for this one.


16 Allows Diversity as a Factor in Public Employment, Education, and Contracting Decisions. Legislative Constitutional Amendment.
This is a tough one. I'm not sure I agree with forcing employers to hire certain percentage of various races in order to ensure racial diversity. People should just be allowed to hire whoever's most qualified. I can agree that universities could continue to practice affirmative actionto ensure students of all races could have a chance for hire education... Anyway, for sure discrimination is happening at workplace... however affirmative action is also basically reverse discrimination. Do we really want to force Lakers to hire more asian basket ball players? I think I will vote no on this one.

17 Restores Right to Vote After Completion of Prison Term. Legislative Constitutional Amendment.
Personally I have no problems with criminals losing their right to vote; however, if I'm given a chance to help restore their voting rights after they've served their time, I'm okay with that. So yes here.

18 Amends California Constitution to Permit 17-Year-Olds to Vote in Primary and Special Elections If They Will Turn 18 by the Next General Election and Be Otherwise Eligible to Vote. Legislative Constitutional Amendment.
This is clearly an attempt by the progressives? ;) I'm really okay either way. I don't really believe a typical 17 soon to be 18 teen will really be that eager to participate in the primaries... might as well just keep it simple. You may vote when you're actually 18. So no for me on this one.

19 Changes Certain Property Tax Rules. Legislative Constitutional Amendment.
Yes. Although a yes vote may hurt me when I inherit my parent's home due to the increase in property tax, but I think this is a fair change to make.

20 Restricts Parole for Certain Offenses Currently Considered to Be Non-Violent. Authorizes Felony Sentences for Certain Offenses Currently Treated Only as Misdemeanors. Initiative Statute.
Yes? I think this one is targeting child molesters/rapists by closing certain loop holes in current laws? It may incur additional costs, but if it closes a loophole, I'm fine with it...

21 Expands Local Governments’ Authority to Enact Rent Control on Residential Property. Initiative Statute.
This one, I'm not sure. Need to study this further.

22 Exempts App-Based Transportation and Delivery Companies From Providing Employee Benefits to Certain Drivers. Initiative Statute.
No. I think people or companies should be allowed to hire 'independent contractors' and not be forced to hire direct employees.

23 Establishes State Requirements for Kidney Dialysis Clinics. Requires On-Site Medical Professional. Initiative Statute.
This is also a tough one. Although it is nice to have a doctor around, but surely this doctor will only be doing nothing most of the time? It may be nice to shut down dialysis centers that are shady, but surely adding a doctor on site will increase cost dramatically... perhaps a dialysis center should be near a hospital or a doctor's office? Anyway, I really do believe this decision is above my pay grade. I shall vote no.

24 Amends Consumer Privacy Laws. Initiative Statute.
This is also something that will require further analysis. Title sounds straight forward enough, but against group was claiming this prop was draft behind closed doors with the help of social media companies...

25 Referendum on Law That Replaced Money Bail With System Based on Public
Yes. Paying bail could be very difficult for the poor and no big deal for the rich. Even if this referendum sucks, but at least it won't favor the rich or cause additional hardships to the poor?

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://twitter.com/Bros4Joe/status/1310351505564692480?s=19

I agree with Hillary 100% on this one!

There really should be a law for all public servants to make their tax returns public information.

There also needs to be some sort of conflict of interest checking agency that can ensure all politicians have a plan in place that can solve all of their COI issues before showing up on ballots... and if COI remains unresolved, they won't be allowed to be sworn in. Yes, the office will be left vacant... or have the next in line temporarily take over while the COI issues are taken care of.

It is mind boggling that we don't have such thing in place... and we simply relying on the 'good faiths' of the candidates...

[Tom Servo]

Hah, they're under audit. Supposedly. Three year audit that mysteriously started when he took office.

The article basically confirms he actually has been under audit for years, mostly around a ~$70 million tax refund he got in 2010 based off potentially shady business losses he claimed around his Atlantic City casinos between 2005 and 2008. If the audit finds that he wasn't entitled to the refund, he'd be on the hook for $100 million after interest.


He'll never reveal them.

Despite the fact that everybody but Trump and his lawyers have pointed out that being under audit doesn't in any way interfere with releasing the returns, you are likely correct, he'll fight that until the bitter end.

[sandydandy]

The article basically confirms he actually has been under audit for years, mostly around a ~$70 million tax refund he got in 2010 based off potentially shady business losses he claimed around his Atlantic City casinos between 2005 and 2008. If the audit finds that he wasn't entitled to the refund, he'd be on the hook for $100 million after interest. Hopefully the punishment includes jail time as well.

[Rikadyn]

So I have been getting an odd number of campaign texts from the alt-reich encouraging me to get an absentee ballot.

[FaultyMario]

Hopefully the punishment includes jail time as well.

For an octogenarian? Don't think so. Hopefully other members of his family are indicted in the same criminal investigation.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Given that the head of the IRS was appointed by the president and confirmed by the senate, it'll be highly unlikely that anything would happen at this point.

Head of IRS was 'blue' and had a chance back in 2016/2017 but didn't really do anything... so I'm assuming there were no tax fraud. Probably just didn't pay any taxes... and I kinda doubt anything would happen at this point. All Trump needs to do is continue to withhold his tax returns and insist the media is reporting fake news.

[sandydandy]

For an octogenarian? Don't think so. Hopefully other members of his family are indicted in the same criminal investigation. LOL I had to look up what octogenarian meant. Hey if Bill Cosby can go to jail then so can Trump. If tax evasion is proven then it should include jail time. That’s how it is in Canada at least, it’s gotta be the same in the US. Tax evasion is very criminal. If it’s just tax avoidance then that’s called smart tax planning.


Given that the head of the IRS was appointed by the president and confirmed by the senate, it'll be highly unlikely that anything would happen at this point Aren’t there other legal bodies outside the IRS that could indict him? Ie. FBI?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Aren’t there other legal bodies outside the IRS that could indict him? Ie. FBI?

James Comey tried but failed remembered? It's unlikely FBI would try again.

It's really mind boggling that when Obama was accused of not being born in the States, he actually produced a birth certificate and the right still refuse to believe.

Now Trump could continue to withhold his tax returns and the right would continue to believe in their president and the media is fake news.

Anyway, if Trump could tell the CDC to make stupid decisions based on politics rather than science during a pandemic, surely he could also be telling what the IRS could or could not do. Everything from the justice department to the post office, he has fucked everything up. He certainly has drained all the swamps and installed his own swamp monsters in its place...

Hoping all these people will be indicted when Trump is out of office.

[Tom Servo]

Billi, I'm actually really happy you went through the propositions, woot! I definitely don't find myself in alignment with a number of your conclusions, but that's totally fine, all I'm hoping for is people informing themselves on what they're being asked to vote on and then voting on it.

The only things I'd point out are:

Prop 15: This is essentially a rollback of Prop 13 for businesses properties. Since Prop 13, property taxes in CA have been tied to the purchase price of a property, not the current market value, and changing it at all has long been considered the third-rail of California politics. It's great in some ways - my parents have their three bedroom, two bathroom house paid off and pay $800 a year in property taxes, while we pay over $10,000 a year for our 3bd,1 1/2ba condo. It's great that my parents won't find themselves suddenly priced out of their home. On the other hand, it also means there's a missing downward pressure on home values, which I believe is part of the reason why housing prices are so ludicrous here. It's also part of the reason why so many of our other taxes in this state are as high as they are - property taxes are generally a pretty significant amount of tax revenue and people like my parents are paying almost nothing into it. At any rate, Prop 15 would change that back to using the market value to set property taxes but only for larger business properties, small businesses, buildings that are over some percentage residential (I'd have to look up the percentage), and residential properties would be unaffected. I'm personally for it, but given that it's maybe the most significant change to property taxation since the late 70's, I figured I'd fill in some more detail.

Prop 18: I can't speak to the typical 17 year old, but since primaries are essentially the parties choosing who they want to vote for in the general rather than actually electing anyone, I'm totally for it. Imagine if you were 17, but turning 18 before the general, and you had to watch as you couldn't cast your vote for Bernie and he lost out to Hillary or Joe?

Prop 21: I actually need to study it further too. I like it, but knowing that the AIDS Healthcare Foundation are supporting it makes me immediately suspicious.

Prop 24: CCPA is a *huge* pain for tech companies right now. GDPR is already difficult enough (the work I was doing on when I was let go was around adding obfuscating abstractions around email addresses which was going to require a complete overhaul of the entire site to accomplish), and CCPA is worse. That said, I also agree with the goals of CCPA. I don't really know what the right answer is on this one, but I wanted to both throw out that loosening privacy rules isn't that great and that the tech companies pushing for this might not be entirely nefarious, it's been a pretty massive burden to try to adhere to it. As it stands now, some apps/sites you really like would literally not be able to exist if they were to become compliant with CCPA.

Prop 25: I'm so happy you're a yes on this. I am too. Your financial status shouldn't determine how the legal system treats you.

[Dicknose]

I think I heard this from NPR, somebody said this election, and most likely most elections, we can't really persuade people to switch sides. People will vote for whoever they want to vote for. Perhaps very very small percentage of voters are truly undecided..., but mostly we just need to persuade a greater percentage of registered voters to actually cast a vote.


Coming from a place where voting is compulsory - if that statement was true here then every election would have a very similar result. Where we actually have times with quite large wins by the two parties.
We might have 80% of the people vote the same each time, but the other 20% can make a huge impact in a system that is fundamentally balanced (actually Id say it probably leans a bit more to the right than left...)

Now in the USA it can also depend on how many people vote, but dont underestimate swinging voters. More so when the balance is close.

[Dicknose]

14 Authorizes Bonds Continuing Stem Cell Research. Initiative Statute.
I'm incline to vote no on this. If we were the federal govt and can print our own money, then for sure this can be a worthwhile investment. I'm just not so sure we absolutely need to borrow billions more to fund this research in the middle of the pandemic. Don't we have other more urgent medical/healthcare related things to borrow money for? Why should this be on the top of the list?

And if stem cells are a cure for the virus?
Or more importantly - the cure for the next pandemic?



18 Amends California Constitution to Permit 17-Year-Olds to Vote in Primary and Special Elections If They Will Turn 18 by the Next General Election and Be Otherwise Eligible to Vote. Legislative Constitutional Amendment.
This is clearly an attempt by the progressives? ;) I'm really okay either way. I don't really believe a typical 17 soon to be 18 teen will really be that eager to participate in the primaries... might as well just keep it simple. You may vote when you're actually 18. So no for me on this one.

The "I dont think they will vote" is not a reason to stop them from voting. Its not like its compulsory.
The US system surprises me - why arent the primaries and how they are run up to the parties themselves?
Anyway it seems weird to let them vote in the election but not give them a say in the selection. Seems like such an obvious Yes.



22 Exempts App-Based Transportation and Delivery Companies From Providing Employee Benefits to Certain Drivers. Initiative Statute.
No. I think people or companies should be allowed to hire 'independent contractors' and not be forced to hire direct employees.

The downside is that this isnt really a choice for the contractors, if the whole industry works that way and it exempts them from important things such as sick leave or health coverage. Especially in a place like the US where the costs of health care are expensive.
Also look at the pandemic - hard to ask people to "get checked, isolate till results come back and then 14 days if positive", if that means they cant earn any money. Having more people working in a gig economy without safety nets means more people who will resist acting in the best interests of society rather than themselves.
Do you want your ubereats operator to be ignoring symptoms because they cant afford to not work??
And this especially applies to the pandemic as these people are considered "vital" but also can come into contact with a lot of the general public. I know Id want them to be able to take time off with pay to protect my health
Bit like a comment I made early in this when someone posted "we should pay a bonus to doctors and nurses" - my reply was we should pay sick people to stay home, that will halt the virus quicker.

[Rare White Ape]

Stem cell research is definitely worth investing in. There is potential there to cure so many ailments, but the early days of it were held back by the anti-abortion lobbyists.

[JoshInKC]

I'd look into the stem cell thing before voting on it - as I recall, due to the 'climate' at the time, a number of states had to do fairly ridiculous things to allow stem cell research due to anti-abortion groups' high levels of mobilized pushback against "MAD SCIENTISTS KILLING BABIES FOR THEIR CELLS!!!!"
So it might be something along the lines of "State funding for this research must be reapproved every 5 years," when literally no other science requires legislative approval.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This is just state government bond, borrowing money to fund research.

CA got into this because federal govt used to ban stem cell research, but not anymore. Just let the govt who can print their own money do this.

It’s not that I’m against stem cell research in general, I’m just against embryonic stem cell research, it’s just that with our limited resources, I would not mind raising bond measures to ensure every Californians have access to affordable healthcare rather than this.

This is probably comparable to CA raising money for research to go to the moon. It’s a wonderful idea, but probably best to let the federal govt to fund it. back then, it was controversial for US to go to the moon too, with racial divides, wars... people were already debating whether it was a good idea to waste money for the moon, was it worth it? Anyway, unless CA really does have billions in the bank and don’t know what to do...

As it is, I’m not sure CA can afford to do all that. Just as if back then Kennedy didn’t choose to go to the moon and CA decided to do it anyway... maybe if Elon Musk were born during that time period...

It’s definitely a worthwhile investment IMO, but I just don’t think CA or Californians should pay for it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The "I dont think they will vote" is not a reason to stop them from voting. Its not like its compulsory.
The US system surprises me - why arent the primaries and how they are run up to the parties themselves?
Anyway it seems weird to let them vote in the election but not give them a say in the selection. Seems like such an obvious Yes.

Primary elections ballots could have other things you could vote for too. You have to draw the line somewhere.

I’m sure Bernie Sanders failure to draw more younger votes Was not because he missed a bunch of 17.5 yr old votes...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Bit like a comment I made early in this when someone posted "we should pay a bonus to doctors and nurses" - my reply was we should pay sick people to stay home, that will halt the virus quicker.

Yes. I believe it’s time for the government to provide healthcare for its own citizens rather than expecting employers to provide these benefits fairly for all.

As far as Uber is concerned, customers are already abandoning ride sharing, now is probably not the time to expect a private company like that to take care of its ‘employees’?

Anyway, just let businesses figure out how to run their business as long as they are not cheating anybody. Governments who really care about their citizens would act to provide the necessary safety nets for its citizens..., not relying on profit driven private companies.

Governments just need to figure out how to collect the taxes they are supposed to collect and not allow these private companies to avoid paying their fair share!

[MR2 Fan]

via twitter:

@profgalloway
Good news: Over 860,000 Americans have already voted, compared to fewer than 10,000 by this point in 2016

[neanderthal]

https://twitter.com/riotwomennn/status/1310935765891919872?s=19

[Tom Servo]

Anyway, just let businesses figure out how to run their business as long as they are not cheating anybody.


That's the thing, they kinda are cheating people. We have basic employer protections as part of law because businesses can't be trusted to meet bare minimums out of the goodness of their hearts. Normally, an independent contractor would be able to negotiate a rate for their services, but gig economy people don't get to do that. They get paid what the company dictates or they leave. Given at least that CA is an at will state, that's basically the same status as a full time employee, only now you don't get minimum wage and other protections. This is all ignoring the nonsense Uber pulled with having you lease a car at an exorbitant price from them and they basically garnishing your pay to pay for it.

The government does have safety nets, things like minimum wage laws and other employee protections. Uber, Lyft, and other gig economy companies are purposely circumventing that, this law would be an attempt to shore up that safety net.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Under normal circumstances, yeah, supreme court justice nominations are important..., but now, I really don't care. At least there are 9 of them and none can be dictators. Plus, it's not like there's anything we can do to stop this nomination process. All we can do is hope that their supporters realize that they are bunch of hypocrites? (which is unlikely)

For now, I'm just worry about the presidential race... if we have another tight race, if half of our population won't recognize the winner with a slim margin as the legit president... then we as a nation will be really screwed.

Biden not only needs a win, but a convincing win.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That's the thing, they kinda are cheating people. We have basic employer protections as part of law because businesses can't be trusted to meet bare minimums out of the goodness of their hearts. Normally, an independent contractor would be able to negotiate a rate for their services, but gig economy people don't get to do that. They get paid what the company dictates or they leave. Given at least that CA is an at will state, that's basically the same status as a full time employee, only now you don't get minimum wage and other protections. This is all ignoring the nonsense Uber pulled with having you lease a car at an exorbitant price from them and they basically garnishing your pay to pay for it.

The government does have safety nets, things like minimum wage laws and other employee protections. Uber, Lyft, and other gig economy companies are purposely circumventing that, this law would be an attempt to shore up that safety net.

I'd rather governments just put 'cheating' businesses out of business rather than create laws to make sure 'cheating' businesses pay fair wages and benefits.

Uber did not force people into this gig economy. Politicians can perhaps share some blame too.

Maybe Andrew Yang is asking too much with UBI, but perhaps governments can step in and fill in the living wage gap? If somebody is working full time and still not making a living wage, perhaps govt could step in and give the person a big refund to help people not fall into proverty? It'd also be nice for the government to be able to provide all of us basic and affordable healthcare.

In order to afford this, government better be doing a better job collecting the taxes they are suppose to collect rather than cutting corporate taxes or allow them to evade taxes... and most importantly not to waste taxes...

Anyway, uber's business model is clear, also considering they are not making a killing under current environment.

I'd rather not see uber disappear or leave CA completely because of this proposition.

Forget about the 'kinda' cheating part. People/companies/goverments operate in gray areas all the time. If someone is for sure 'cheating', than absolutely we should do something. Otherwise, I think we have much bigger fish to fry than uber. And if uber goes under or leave the state, these gig workers won't even have gigs anymore. Will the state of CA give them full time jobs?

I just don't believe this proposition solves any problems. I might have voted yes if we don't have a pandemic or if this isn't 2020...

Plus, these 'gigs' will soon be replaced by self driving cars anyways..., but then again, self driving cars won't be able to deliver food! :p

[neanderthal]

https://twitter.com/KiaSpeaks/status/1310801446296850433?s=19

[FaultyMario]

The debate will air live on CNN, CNN en Español and CNN International.

It will stream live in its entirety, without requiring log-in to a cable provider, on CNN.com's homepage, across mobile devices via CNN's apps for iOS and Android, and via CNNgo apps for Apple TV, Roku, Amazon Fire, Chromecast and Android TV.

You can also follow CNN's live debate coverage on CNN.com

##

[Tom Servo]

I wasn't going to be watching but now I've fortified by booze cabinet and I'm ready.

[JoshInKC]

Yep, got a fresh bottle of sotol today, so ranch waters will be on tap.

[G'day Mate]

It's live on YouTube isn't it?

[Yw-slayer]

Lol too bad it's the morning of a normal workday here. Otherwise I'd offer to do a Zoom Bullshit Bingo drinking session.

[Yw-slayer]

Man, this is so funny. Gogogo Billi's favourite executive!!!

[G'day Mate]

What a trainwreck.

[FaultyMario]

What a trainwreck.

The Evil Empire is doomed.

[Dicknose]

Anyway, just let businesses figure out how to run their business as long as they are not cheating anybody.

Because that has always worked well.

It seems "independent contractor" is the way to ignore most of the important changes in worker conditions. It is rarely better for the worker and in the current conditions its also definitely worse for the general public.
Having government health care still doesnt help with sick leave and people not being able to afford to take time off work, so you have sick and potentially infectious people working because they cant afford not to.

[sandydandy]

Wallace won that debate. The man was a fucking boss.

[Tom Servo]

Wallace won the debate? To steal a joke I saw on Twitter, I've seen referees in Wrestlemania cage matches maintain better control.

[FaultyMario]

It's kind of funny how well the Star Wars prequels map into US politics for the last 4 years. In case you don't remember the main plot points:

-Conflict starts due to a trade dispute between Naboo and the Trade Federation (NAFTA)

-Palpatine becomes Supreme Chancellor promising that he will make the Senate functional again (Drain the swamp)

-He systematically mines democracy by concentrating power on himself, with the support of most senators. (Jar Jar Binks as Mitch McConnell in SW universe)

-He mobilizes an army of supporters to destroy his opposition, alleging that they were planning a coup against the government.

##

[FaultyMario]

"This was a disgusting moment for democracy. Donald Trump made it so, and Chris Wallace let him,"

The Atlantic.

[sandydandy]

Wallace won the debate? To steal a joke I saw on Twitter, I've seen referees in Wrestlemania cage matches maintain better control. Well Trump sounded like a loud and rambling mess like a baboon. Biden looked drained right from the start like he jacked off a couple of times before the debate. He could barely get a word out and let Trump push him around. So that leaves Wallace.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Because that has always worked well.

It seems "independent contractor" is the way to ignore most of the important changes in worker conditions. It is rarely better for the worker and in the current conditions its also definitely worse for the general public.
Having government health care still doesnt help with sick leave and people not being able to afford to take time off work, so you have sick and potentially infectious people working because they cant afford not to.

It comes down to who pays for it, right?

For ordinary citizens, staying home without pay can be a problem.

It could be a problem for a business too.

Only governments could be the last to go bankrupt... so I think the burden should be bear on governments rather than businesses.

If driving for Uber sucks, then more and more folks should stop doing it unless Uber pays more. If our economy has no more real jobs other than gigs like Uber driver, then I’m not sure we’ll be able fix that screwed up economy by asking Uber to hire only direct employees and forcing them to pay living wages...

Anyway, I just think it’s wrong to interfere with a business like that. If the business model is just wrong/unethical, then don’t let them start it or just shut them down. Don’t try to tell them how they should run their businesses. Particularly doing this in 2020.

Actually, upon closer examination, I think I misunderstood prop22, yes vote means leave Uber alone. No vote means they don’t get this independent contractor exemption, either hire direct or leave CA, stop fighting the court ruling! This prop is actually sponsored by uber!

So anyway, if CA is really willing to risk losing Uber, so be it, I will stay out of this fight by voting no and see how this plays out. Fundamentally, I still don’t believe in government interfering unless it’s to stop wrongdoing, but I also don’t want to give Uber my vote of support either. If CA truly believes Uber is wrong and acting accordingly, I can respect that, but not sure if I agree with that though.

[MR2 Fan]

It's becoming more clear to me why Trump hated mail in ballots....he doesn't want people to vote remotely, he wants people to be intimated out of voting at the polling places by his "army" being recruited right now with help from crackhead Don Jr.

https://twitter.com/VeraMBergen/status/1309546768602988546

[G'day Mate]

Jr is an unaccountable mouthpiece that gets to say the awful things Trump wants to but (somehow even he) can’t as president. It’s vile.

Can’t wait to see Will Arnett play his part in some kind of future satire.

[Rare White Ape]

So is there a line that you can draw that shows the boundary between slightly nuts and compete crackpot? I think this can define that difference somewhat.

I cannot believe that we live in a world where this sort of thing is considered with a straight face by some people.

[neanderthal]

Man, this is so funny. Gogogo Billi's favourite executive!!!

Right?!

[neanderthal]

I watched five minutes of that mess. That was enough.

#mutehismike

Moderators are supposed to make sure the question is answered. Trump was asked, directly, about covid deaths. He pivoted immediately to businesses. There was no follow up. There was no course correction.

#hedidn'tmoderateatall

The people who lost yesterday was anybody who watched that shit.

I don't drink but I fortified myself with alcohol in preparation. Even then I could only watch those 5 minutes.

[sandydandy]

I watched five minutes of that mess. That was enough.

#mutehismike

Moderators are supposed to make sure the question is answered. Trump was asked, directly, about covid deaths. He pivoted immediately to businesses. There was no follow up. There was no course correction.

#hedidn'tmoderateatall

The people who lost yesterday was anybody who watched that shit.

I don't drink but I fortified myself with alcohol in preparation. Even then I could only watch those 5 minutes. I think Wallace did the best he could trying to control someone who is uncontrollable and drowns people in bullshit very quickly. It was kind of satisfying hearing him talk back/down to Trump. Every reporter that has tried in the White House press room has had their legs cut out from under them.

I'm relieved to know there will be more debates between Trump and Biden. I thought it was only the disastrous one from last night. I wasn't impressed with Biden's performance, I have to be honest. He looked low on energy and couldn't find his voice at times. You can't do that against a bully like Trump who will talk over him every chance he gets. Some people are born to debate, others not. I once saw an interview with Neil DeGrasse Tyson who said he doesn't engage in debates with pseudoscientists because it's not about the facts. Facts and substance don't mean much when the opponent brings only style and a mastery of deflection. It’s always risky going up against a seasoned debater, especially one who’s very skilled at evasive tactics and weaponizing his propaganda so effectively to push your buttons, all while sitting back looking smug.

Biden won in the fact-check department by a mile but facts already don't mean shit to Trump supporters. We need to see him speak forcefully, if he has the energy and stamina to do it. I almost thought we were going to see it last night when he was talking about his late son who was in the military. He showed some spunk and passion in that topic, but if he capped it off with calling Trump a "sick son of a bitch" on live TV it would've helped greatly. I think the whole target of these debates are those people on the fence, and I don't think Biden really convinced anyone to jump to his side.

Thankfully he'll have another couple of chances.

[FaultyMario]

We, the Spanish-speaking people of América, are mourning the loss Joaquin Lavado Tejón, Quino. A cartoonist who, since 1964, was responsible for turning generations of us to the good side.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjLSpSZWkAEs_xs.jpg

Roughly translated:

-Good morning, sweet child! Is the head of the family home?
-In this family we have no bosses, we're a cooperative.

[neanderthal]

I think Wallace did the best he could trying to control someone who is uncontrollable and drowns people in bullshit very quickly. It was kind of satisfying hearing him talk back/down to Trump. Every reporter that has tried in the White House press room has had their legs cut out from under them.

I'm relieved to know there will be more debates between Trump and Biden. I thought it was only the disastrous one from last night. I wasn't impressed with Biden's performance, I have to be honest. He looked low on energy and couldn't find his voice at times. You can't do that against a bully like Trump who will talk over him every chance he gets. Some people are born to debate, others not. I once saw an interview with Neil DeGrasse Tyson who said he doesn't engage in debates with pseudoscientists because it's not about the facts. Facts and substance don't mean much when the opponent brings only style and a mastery of deflection. It’s always risky going up against a seasoned debater, especially one who’s very skilled at evasive tactics and weaponizing his propaganda so effectively to push your buttons, all while sitting back looking smug.

Biden won in the fact-check department by a mile but facts already don't mean shit to Trump supporters. We need to see him speak forcefully, if he has the energy and stamina to do it. I almost thought we were going to see it last night when he was talking about his late son who was in the military. He showed some spunk and passion in that topic, but if he capped it off with calling Trump a "sick son of a bitch" on live TV it would've helped greatly. I think the whole target of these debates are those people on the fence, and I don't think Biden really convinced anyone to jump to his side.

Thankfully he'll have another couple of chances.

Perception is a mutha fucker ain't it.

Most of the tweets I saw regarding the debate debacle alluded to the ... uncontrolled nature of it (i'm trying not not harp on specifics like the Proud Boys non moment.) And how the moderator was basically useless. Something that I agree with.

I saw one tweet that made me pause in my own criticism of Biden. It said that in the chaos and flurry of words that was Trump, and was reflective of his presidency, Biden was a sea of calm. And I hadn't really thought about that. And maybe that's what he was trying to project.

To you and I (most men i think) we saw Biden essentially cowering to Trump (cowering is a strong word, but bear with me.) But to many women, they saw their abusive/ manipulative/ alcoholic ex in Trump's behaviour. Maybe he was trying to highlight how deranged Trump is.


If he'd called Trump a sick son of a bitch the media would've glommed onto that harder than why he even said it. The right wing talk shows and Fuax would be all atwitter about the crassness of Biden and it would be all they talked about for the next three weeks. YOU. KNOW. THIS. For reference see; her emails, Benghazi, he wore a tan suit.
The media have not challenged Trump at all. They haven't called him out when he lies. They haven't called his lies "lies." They've been complicit in his elevation and in maintaining him elevated.

I, was impressed that Biden, a stutterer mind you, who has taught himself not to stutter and to be a competent public speaker, was able to keep himself composed for the little that I watched.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Biden really needs to take a firm stand on something... especially under such a polarizing environment.

At least Trump is clear on where he stands on whatever BS he was saying... Biden seemed kinda afraid to take a leftward stand.

Biden is reminding me of Elizabeth Warren... she was trying to please both the corporate moderates and the progressives at the same time... obviously that strategy didn't work out for her...

It's kinda sad that socialism is such a dirty word in America... even for a liberal democrat. Biden seemingly couldn't agree with socialism. If socialism is that evil, we might as well let the right repeal social security and medicare as well? Why couldn't a liberal candidate at least try to explain the benefits of socialism rather than act as if socialism is indeed as bad and unacceptable as the right believes?

Also, republicans' 'fix' has always been to just dismantle everything socialistic, so after everything is repealed, then what?

Just buy medicine from another country? Also what does it mean to sign an executive order to force insurance companies to accept patients with preexisting conditions? Why is he making such a mandate on the poor insurance companies? How is his plan different from making healthcare more affordable just like the plan he's trying to repeal?

Anyway, Biden just seemed to be on the defensive most of the time... and the sad thing was that Biden was being attack by a bunch of BS and he seemed to have a hard time defending against BS.

Attack more forcefully O'Biden, you're our only hope.

Kinda wish Warren were the nominee and she'll probably be able to chew him out better..., but then again, maybe not... she'll probably have to end up defending pocahontas for the entire 90 minutes...

Would Bernie do better? Not sure, but at least Bernie would be louder with higher energy levels! :D

[21Kid]

So is there a line that you can draw that shows the boundary between slightly nuts and compete crackpot? I think this can define that difference somewhat.

I cannot believe that we live in a world where this sort of thing is considered with a straight face by some people.

Agreed

[Yw-slayer]

I saw one tweet that made me pause in my own criticism of Biden. It said that in the chaos and flurry of words that was Trump, and was reflective of his presidency, Biden was a sea of calm. And I hadn't really thought about that. And maybe that's what he was trying to project.

That, I understand. But will it "win" the debate and/or the election?

Anyway. I was at a place which had a special American Breakfast menu. I had (minute) steak and eggs. At around 40 minutes in I felt like stress-eating because someone just wouldn't shut the fuck up. So I ordered chicken and waffles and ate that too. Obviously it wasn't as good as the chicken and waffles I'd had in Oakland, but it was still good. I also got to skip lunch.