Politics

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah that's doubling the minimum wage. We'd all love to see that, but it'll never happen. Small businesses would sink overnight.

Better to gradually increase over time and let these companies adjust. First, increase in-line with economic growth, then add a few percent on top until it reaches that goal.

Sanders is grandstanding with the push to suddenly increase it. When the bill inevitably fails, he can point to its opponents and tell everyone how horrible they are.

I failed to understand why are you with Neanderthal on this topic... considering that min wage in Australia and NZ are like $19. Do you guys not have small businesses?

Further, we had our last min wage increase back in 2009 from $6.55 to $7.25.

I don't see any other push from any other politicians for any gradual increases. It's basically see no evil hear no evil. These workers are lucky that we abolished slavery!

So when Bernie comes along... whoa grandpa, $15 is too much too quickly! slow down! Okay, we can slow down... so when and what kind of gradual increases are being negotiated on? Well, we can't even negotiate because parliamentarian tell us that we can't. Furthermore, republicans won't go for any increases. So we'll just accept that?

If we want medicare for all, will you also be critical of us moving too much too quickly?

We should face reality that the Trump led Neo Nazi's are in charge. We need to compromise with them 1st? Even if we have 2/3 of the population on our side? What kind of defeatist attitude is that?

We have bipartisanship with our general population, but this issue is still sidelined in congress.

You guys can accept such bogus wrongness and be real. I'm not going to. If Bernie Sanders is still alive come 2024, I will be voting for him again... hopefully 3rd time is a charm and I'd be finally be able to vote for him during general election.

[Tom Servo]

Billi, I'm surprised that you're not pushing for a clearer, more achievable goal like increasing it 10% a year.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Please. 10% is a big percentage. Stock market goes up on average 10% a year. I do want to be real and clearer, but I don't want to be too unreasonable. I should fight to get myself 10% raises every year first, then I'll consider fighting for min wage earners to get such high raises.

We should simply aim to regularly adjust min wage based on inflation, which is about 0~2% annually. So min wage really should've been tied to inflation so we don't need politicians to vote on it every freaking time. Cost of living is also different for each state... so federal min wage should just be based on the cheapest state's poverty level. Each state can increase their level according to their cost of living adjustment.

Anyway, I get the feeling that you all want min wage increase. You guys only have problems with Billi, not really the $15 min wage, right?

Who here is really with the 1/3 of the people, all of the republican senators and those 8 liberal senators because you fundamentally believe $15 min wage is a bad idea and wrong if the dems managed to pass it?

If you are not that person, let's just agree to agree and let this issue be please? ;)

If you are that person, I'd like to hear from you. I'd like to know why am I wrong about this increase.

Seriously, I don't need to be told to be real... because I know GOP senators don't want it and 8 liberal senators don't want it... although I was surprised by the parliamentarian, but I know she's a real person too. I know these things are real and they are not unicorns or mystic creatures. However, I'm sure we all want workers to be able to earn at least living wages, right? You guys can accept what you want to accept, can you let me help Bernie fight what we think is a good fight?

Billi aside, do you guys believe Bernie Sander's unreal and stupid too? And we should blame him for even trying to bring it up in the 1st place?

[Jason]

Jee zus you're dense. $15/ hr will not pass. That's reality. You really want him to spend his presidency tilting at windmills?

Literally, this is NOT the bill to bring to the floor and get rid of the filibuster for. The voting rights act? Sure. The union act? Sure. $15/ hr has massive resistance. The smart play is to wait for some other legislation to knock down the filibuster, then enact $15/ hr.

Why this is not clearly evident to you stymies me. But, i've said it over and over again; your politics don't appear to be based on reality. And reality is that $15/ hr will not pass in a senate with a filibuster.

And social security, Medicaid/ Medicare, and the VA are absolutely successes. They have their faults but they're incredibly efficient at what they're designed to do. But they can be better.

VRA and various voting/gerrymandering regulations would go a long long long way towards achieving progressive goals. Wish more could see that.

Instead, while Dems/Progressives infight about the minimum wage, 43 states have laws on the books restricting voting access. The GOP knows that the foundation is the most important part of achieving policy goals, and that foundation is state and local elections. Dems/Progressives should learn from it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Allowing more voters and getting rid of gerrymandering are definitely awesome; however, what good will they do if people continue to elect senators like those 8 DINOs? Even Biden is giving me buyer's remorse. Corporate dems went all in to make sure Sanders cannot win! And if some outsider like Sanders win, they'd all rather give up and quit rather than work together to kick republican's ass! (as in Nevada)

We had a decent chance if we could just fire and replace the parliamentarian and then pressure on those 8 liberal senators HARD to get with the program and get that done with budget reconciliation. Like Neanderthal said, there's no realistic path forward with that $15 min wage otherwise.

But instead, there's not even any compromising with Sander's. Just a... yeah, sorry crazy old man, because parliamentarian said so... see I told you so, we can't do it. Yes we can't! Yes we can't!

Let's try to give more people a chance to vote for corporate moderates into public offices! Surely that will help make real lasting changes?

Are you really that hopeful, Jason?

It's obvious Biden and Sanders would like to take the democratic party in different directions. Let's just assume Sander's had an heart attack and died so he's no more a threat to the party.

Do you truly believe Biden's direction is the most hopeful one for our nation? Capable of defeating Trump and other republicans?

I seriously doubt that. Biden only got lucky because Trump totally screwed up with coronavirus. Dems didn't win this time on their merit. Dems only won because their opposition really really sucked! And dems won by a small margin too! Against somebody really really sucked!

If dems managed to win more seats during midterm, then perhaps I'm wrong and just over reacting and worrying too much. But we'll see. I think I should give this thread a short break now because I really don't know what else to day. :p

[Jason]

We are 1926 pages into this thread, and you still lack the capacity to see nuance and compromise

[Crazed_Insanity]

Do you think Bernie Sanders has the same problem? That’s why he couldn’t win the nomination?

[Jason]

Yes

[Tom Servo]

He also lets the jokes just woosh on by too, which is ultimately very unsatisfying.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, some people just lack the social skillz... hence they over compensate by trying to be a socialist.

[Rikadyn]

Yeah, some people just lack the social skillz... hence they over compensate by trying to be a socialist.

Trying to say that you are a socialist? O.o

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m not a full on socialist like Bernie, but I definitely lack the social skills like Bernie. :p

My admiration of Bernie isn't because he's a socialist or an atheist or anything like that. I also don't need my president to be able to laugh at every joke or be able to identify all 50 shades of grey..., I just admire his unwavering conviction to do what he believes is the right thing to do.

Hopefully AOC will be able to do the same during her career? Because Bernie is just too damn old. However, I heard Nancy Pelosi was like AOC when she was young... I also loved Obama when I thought he was more progressive(when campaigning against Hillary...), but people often change over time and become more compromising... :(

Bernie's integrity withstood the test of time. I just can't help but respect that. I sincerely hope that he will accept Jesus before he kicks the bucket! He is really quite Christ-like. Nobody who's anybody really liked Jesus when he was roaming around the earth too...

[Rikadyn]

Bernie isn't a socialist.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Oh, he called himself a democratic socialist didn't he? If he's not, then what is he?

[Rikadyn]

Well dem-soc are generally still liberals(remember socialism[which includes various versions of communism and anarchism] is an opposing idealogy to liberalism) but more than open to soft socialism, not willing to completely remove the problem that makes it necessary.

As far as policy goes, Sanders is a FDR style Democrat, while current democrats are more akin to Reagan republicans (which is telling how far the Overton window has shifted.

[neanderthal]

We just crossed 100 million doses administered (65 million people vaccinated with only the first shot) but fuck sticks whining about $15/hr.

Biden had been President since Jan 21.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well dem-soc are generally still liberals(remember socialism[which includes various versions of communism and anarchism] is an opposing idealogy to liberalism) but more than open to soft socialism, not willing to completely remove the problem that makes it necessary.

As far as policy goes, Sanders is a FDR style Democrat, while current democrats are more akin to Reagan republicans (which is telling how far the Overton window has shifted.

Yeah, everything is relative... I was just going by his own word... that he's a democratic socialist. I don't want to get bogged down by all the nuances! :p

And to Neanderthal, is it too hard to just pretend to fight for higher min wage? Or at least pretend to work with Bernie bros in Nevada? If it's unity we're aiming for, we should at least act like we are united. That's all I'd like to see! I'm not expecting Biden to achieve the impossible. Just to at least try. Like I said, he's obviously willing to fight hard for Neera, who had little chance to get confirmed.

Imagine if somehow the republicans and enough stupid ass dems somehow derailed this relief bill too. If people get upset about that, you gonna chew them out too?

Hey, be real you fuck sticks! We're all about to get our vaccines. Just tighten your belt a bit. Just walk off your hunger... this will soon be over! Don't be pussies. Our politicians just don't care about us. Accept that reality and keep on voting for them... because somehow we need to have this status quo... because otherwise Trump's gonna take over!!!

Have some compassion please...

Should we just patiently wait for black lives to matter and quit whining on the streets too? We are about to be vaccinated! Stop being so upset about injustices! Dems are working on it... except a few of them with brain farts... of course yes, all republican politicians probably only have fart for brains... yes... someday dems will be able to get it done! This is like delicate brain surgery, can't rush this!

You know, I believe dems could possibly achieve these things faster by not sabotaging the progressives. I really think the dems are shooting their own foot like that... and fine, I'll stop whining about my bleeding foot... I'll suck it up. Cause it's useless to whine anyways. Why bother. To you, it's probably more like Bernie is sabotaging the dems, right? If only Bernie could cease to exist, we'd have higher min wage sooner?

[Tom Servo]

We just crossed 100 million doses administered (65 million people vaccinated with only the first shot) but fuck sticks whining about $15/hr.

Biden had been President since Jan 21.

As I understand it even having the first dose of the two-dose ones nearly guarantees that you won't need to be hospitalized from it. That's huge. For 1/3 of the country, mostly consisting of the most vulnerable, now have an existential threat that they've lived with for a year lifted.

[George]

We just crossed 100 million doses administered (65 million people vaccinated with only the first shot) but fuck sticks whining about $15/hr.

Biden had been President since Jan 21.

*stands up and salutes*

I literally get a grin on my face every time I see him on the news or see a clip of Jen Psaki or anyone else who appears to be competent at his or her job.

Seeing elected and appointed officials do something - anything - that seems just or decent or even simply honest is a stark contrast from everything in the last four years.

[drew]

But don't fear, McConnell is here to downplay the success, that Biden is merely riding the wave that started with the last guy.

Get.
Fucked.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mitch is an old guy and might not even live til the end of his term in 2027. His wife also has some ethics violation because her family's close business ties to China as head of transportation. I don't think we need to worry about that old guy for too long.

Just need to do more of what's righteous and popular in order to truly win the american people over. Give folks like Trump no chance to take over...

[Rare White Ape]

But don't fear, McConnell is here to downplay the success, that Biden is merely riding the wave that started with the last guy.

Get.
Fucked.

You mean the “It’s just a flu” guy who banged on about hydroxychloroquine and bleach and UV light and other experimental treatments?

Yeah that momentum really picked up steam didn’t it?

[2ndMoparMan]

He will not be missed.

[Rikadyn]

He will not be missed.

People would have to stop talking about him for that to happen

[neanderthal]

As I understand it even having the first dose of the two-dose ones nearly guarantees that you won't need to be hospitalized from it. That's huge. For 1/3 of the country, mostly consisting of the most vulnerable, now have an existential threat that they've lived with for a year lifted.

I'm reading that now many of the logistical issues are at state level, with many states unable to scale up their operations to be able to vaccinate anyone by President Biden's May 1 date. Some states are still struggling to register people to get their first shot.

My brother drives buses in Los Angeles. Usually he's driving the Golden State Warriors around from the airport to the Staples enter etc. If not it's college basketball teams or something. But in his conversation with my cousin last night, they were getting ready to go set up a mass injection site in Fresno or something, someone was getting ready to drive a bunch of nurses up north to get that facility fully staffed.

I've mentioned Charles Gaba; he's a healthcare wonk on twitter. He tweeted that part of the covid bill may give all people on unemployment fee free ACA coverage. He's still looking into it. Even in states that didn't expand their medicare under Obamacare. That's HUGE!!!!

President Biden out here (in his office really) saving lives, but fucksticks will fuck stick.

[neanderthal]

But don't fear, McConnell is here to downplay the success, that Biden is merely riding the wave that started with the last guy.

Get.
Fucked.

I really wish reporters would "circle back" when these fuck sticks talk to the media!

"Oh, mr minority leader McConnell. You're here telling us how awful this covid bill is going to be for the country. Can you tell us how the tax bill you rushed through congress in the dead of night was awful for the country while you're at it?" Or some other version where their prior words on corona are brought to bear on todays events and the reporter needs a comment on that.

[neanderthal]

"I also think that there is a habit among people that talk about politics to talk about what should be, rather than what is, first. You can talk about what should be, but you have to acknowledge the reality of the world that you're in."


https://youtu.be/reHjvbSRuTM

This guy is worth listening to to. I listen almost daily. He puts out a few short videos a day. I can listen to them while checking my email. This is definitely worth your time and consideration.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Very interesting if he’s right about Biden.

If that were really the case, Biden really should share his secret strategy with Bernie so that Bernie won’t mess it up... or perhaps this is all just a show to distract the republicans? Pretend that Bernie and Biden are not on the same page?

Anyway, we’ll just have to wait and see. Time will tell.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Moving on to Governor Cuomo, I don’t like him as much as Al Franken, so I don’t think I’d miss him if he’s gone, but I still don’t believe we should pressure him to resign just by ‘popular opinion’.

Don’t we have enough to just impeach the guy? Why not just move to impeach? Nixon resigned because of looming impeachment. If he felt he had no chance, then he would resign.

For now, I really dislike this way of getting rid of democrats. Hey we think you did something wrong..., so you should just resign.

What happened to due process?

[JoshInKC]

Due process still exists, thats what those two impeachments we've had over the past few years have been.

What I think you're missing is that "popular opinion" is in many ways the first step of impeachment process, which is a political process and inherently distinct from criminal trial, though it may resemble one from a mile up. "Popular opinion" is exactly what happened to Nixon - Some republican congressmen had a meeting with him and said, "Yeah, there's going to be no way to avoid impeachment, you don't have enough support," and he decided to resign rather than be impeached. 'Support' in that instance can be defined as "Our office phone lines are blowing up and indicate that Public opinion has shifted enough that if we try to get you the votes to stay in office, or even act like we don't think you're a huge problem, there are going to be a lot of seats in trouble come the '74 election. If you resign, we can avoid a lot of trouble and still get some things done with that nice Jerry Ford."

What you seem to really have a problem with is the democratic voters' apparent interest in principles over certain aspects of maintaining political power, while the republicans these days seem like they'd happily cut their own mothers' throats and skin their daughters to "own the libs".

[Crazed_Insanity]

For deciding public policy or public office, I’m all for ‘popular opinion’, with the democratic process.

However, I just don’t agree with me too movement’s way of removing people from offices.

Approval ratings go up and down... just let them serve out their terms. Politically damaged politicians won’t win re-election. If something inappropriate really happened, then we need more than just a resignation. Said person should go to jail if guilty of wrongdoing.

At least if somebody messed with my daughter, I’d like to see penalties much more severe than just the dude quitting.

Anyway, I just think we need a better process to move the me too movement forward.

In case of Cuomo, instead of calling him to resign, just investigate his ass!

[Tom Servo]

Well, wouldn't it make sense to call for his resignation and, if he doesn't, then investigate? Why spend the money on an investigation if you can just have him voluntarily step down?

There won't be much more of a consequence than that, sexual harassment in the workplace isn't a crime you can be charged with, as far as I know.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think it ought to be a crime.

Why should some asshole be allowed to make my wife or daughter or sister feel so uncomfortable and get away with that so easily?

Also, if the accused could prove the accusers were making things up, that should be a crime too.

We can’t just continue to have these he said she said things going on.

[Tom Servo]

If you think it should be a crime, you have to come up with some specifics. Like, if you hit on a colleague, that's a crime? Does it depend on whether the colleague was into it? Even if you hit it off and get married, you're a criminal? Or is it better to make it a civil matter, where you can sue the person for damages?

An asshole should not be allowed to make your wife or daughter or sister feel uncomfortable. However, that's not a crime. The general punishment is losing one's job or being forced out of one's position. I don't know that being forced to resign in shame from being governor of one of the biggest states and probably foregoing a planned presidential run is "easily".

I also have zero doubt in my mind that if it was a crime, you would be the first person decrying how unfair the crime is, that you can become a criminal just because you said you liked someone's skirt or shoes.

[Rare White Ape]

Gotta draw the boundary somewhere.

Which is why we have courts, right? Paid professionals who sift through the details of each case on an individual basis and compare to established case law.

With, you know? Nuance?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, there can be 50 shades of gray and lots of nuances... a line needs to be clearly drawn so that people know exactly where they can’t cross it.

Can’t continue to deliberately let this gray area be left unclear, and then expect all accused democrats to just resign and the accused Republicans be allowed to ignore accusations...

This shouldn’t be partisan politics but equal treatment under the law...

I think me too movement could benefit a lot by helping people develop this line or process that’ll hinder future incidents.

Powerful people will always take advantage of people beneath them. New laws aimed at protecting workers may be a better deterrent than just asking them to maybe step down...

[Crazed_Insanity]

I also have zero doubt in my mind that if it was a crime, you would be the first person decrying how unfair the crime is, that you can become a criminal just because you said you liked someone's skirt or shoes.

If my daughter felt uncomfortable simply because she heard some creep compliment her outfit, I’d certainly laugh at her! If the law were written that way, yeah, I’d definitely be decrying over such a stupid law.

Do you truly believe the line should be drawn there?

Complimenting coworker the wrong way should cause you to lose your job?

As long as you make me feel uncomfortable, you need to go?

There has to be a better line.

[Tom Servo]

What if it was her boss and he kept doing it in a suggestive way? Would that be a crime? Should he keep his job? Should nothing come of it?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Obviously we can't have a suggestive crime.

People need to learn to be able to shut it down or get used to things 'suggestive'. You will encounter people with vastly different "working styles". If a boss's behavior isn't 'illegal', then perhaps it is the subordinates that need to quit if a boss makes you feel uncomfortable, rather than the boss?

My suggestion of 'illegality' would be nothing suggestive. I believe one way to avoid those suggestive incidents is to make sure there are at least 3 people in any closed door meetings if a recording device cannot be present in the room? Also make it clear other than hand shakes or perhaps high 5s, other forms of physical contact are strictly prohibited in professional settings? Giving bosses no more excuses to pretend that they were just being friendly...

Anyway, I think folks representing the me too movement ought to help the public out by drawing that line. Need something enforceable, something that can help professionals steer clear away from. If someone insists on pushing that boundary and end up crossing the line, he'll not only lose his job, he'll go to jail!

Back to Cuomo, isn’t the cover up of nursing home deaths enough to throw him out of office and in jail if found guilty?

[Tom Servo]

That's quite the take, but I am glad that you actually answered the question!

[Crazed_Insanity]

I always tried my best to answer questions, whether if I could do it satisfactorily is another question...

[FaultyMario]

I don't think another episode of white-supremacist, domestic terrorism (https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nw-domestic-terrorism-malheur-wildlife-refuge-20191220-2f4dfad7creibaxof5gbxauea4-story.html) is as feasible as was in 2014, with the new secretary of the interior (https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/15/politics/deb-haaland-senate-confirmation-vote/index.html) having risen from administrative positions within Native American development programs.

[neanderthal]

I don't think another episode of white-supremacist, domestic terrorism (https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nw-domestic-terrorism-malheur-wildlife-refuge-20191220-2f4dfad7creibaxof5gbxauea4-story.html) is as feasible as was in 2014, with the new secretary of the interior (https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/15/politics/deb-haaland-senate-confirmation-vote/index.html) having risen from administrative positions within Native American development programs.

When science makes something idiot proof, along comes a better idiot. Don't underestimate the idiocy of racists.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, hard to believe I’m actually in agreement with Neanderthal. Hard to believe Neo-Nazis could even exist after WWII, and in America too!

Do not underestimate the power of the dumb side...

[Rikadyn]

Yeah, hard to believe I’m actually in agreement with Neanderthal. Hard to believe Neo-Nazis could even exist after WWII, and in America too!

Do not underestimate the power of the dumb side...

https://youtu.be/AprqBXXPQH8

[SportWagon]

But don't fear, McConnell is here to downplay the success, that Biden is merely riding the wave that started with the last guy.

Get.
Fucked.:like: Or is that :like: :not: (Like the post, don't like the reality it is talking about...)

(Web searches suggest, as one would suspect, the last guy is doing his own share of such credit-taking, too)

[Crazed_Insanity]

:up: = : up :

[neanderthal]

"McConnel promises scorched earth if Democrats end filibuster." Seen these headlines a few times today and yesterday.

Can someone smarter than me explain how this would be different from the current partisan obstructionism the RepubliQans are currently practising? They'll be ... more recalcitrant? They'll pitch fits in public? They'll throw their toys? They'll take their ball votes and go home? How would this be different?

I mean from the point of view of "they don't do a n y t h i n g to help govern or pass any laws right now," what will change?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dude, until the day dems can figure out how to get the minority of dem congressmen and women to vote like liberals, what chance do they have at convincing the GQP politicians to change their minds?

Yes, absolutely 0 GQP would vote to increase min wage and absolutely 0 voted for the relief bill.

However, there are dems who would vote against min wage and there was a democratic representative who actually voted against the relief bill. WTF?!?!?

Min wage increase and relief bill are massive popular with bipartisan support if we survey average americans. However, it's only super partisan in congress... and not even all dems are onboard with the agendas democrats are supposedly promoting.

Until we can get all dems to vote like dems, I really think it's kinda pointless to blame stupid ass republicans.

Why do we have dems who vote like republicans? Sabotaging their 'own' party and voting against the will of the people? Why are Biden's hands tied by these minority dissenters and parlimentarians?

I really hope Beau is right... that Biden is devising some secret plan to trick the republicans somehow. However, I'm not sure Biden is really that smart..., maybe Obama is plotting for him again behind the scene... I hope it works out.

[21Kid]

*stands up and salutes*

I literally get a grin on my face every time I see him on the news or see a clip of Jen Psaki or anyone else who appears to be competent at his or her job.

Seeing elected and appointed officials do something - anything - that seems just or decent or even simply honest is a stark contrast from everything in the last four years.
Agreed

[Crazed_Insanity]

I dunno. I was annoyed seeing Sarah huckabee Sanders’ face and wanted to slap her every time I see her.

Jen is different. She certainly looks more professional and competent but she seems just like the corporate untrustworthy type. You know, whether it’s politician like Bill Clinton or actual corporations like Wells Fargo, they say awesome politically correct jingos but who knows what kind of hanky panky they might be doing behind the scenes?

Anyway, maybe I’m just too skeptical.

[Dicknose]

Jon Schaffer of Iced Earth and Demons & Wizards was in the capitol riot. Apparently he is now on a FBI wanted list.
Other band members and record labels have moved to distance themselves and disapprove of the riots.


Update...
Jon is still in jail in Indiana and a Fed judge has ruled he will be held without bail until his trial. Happy birthday - he just had his 53rd birthday in jail.
One of the charges against him is for using bear spray on an officer. Thats serious, way more than just being there.

Seems Iced Earth is no more, record labelled dropped it and the other band members have distanced themselves or officially quit the band.

[Rikadyn]

Band wasn't that great since Matt left the first time.

[Yw-slayer]

It was good to see someone actually try and empathise with victims, rather than blame them or call the attacker a "fine person", although of course there was still the guy who started taking about how the attacker listened to too much Daniel Powter.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/03/20/politics/us-china-friction-ahead/index.html

China and US met in Alaska to have a little chat, and the 2 sounded like conversationd between YW and Billi. Not good.

[Tom Servo]

It was good to see someone actually try and empathise with victims, rather than blame them or call the attacker a "fine person", although of course there was still the guy who started taking about how the attacker listened to too much Daniel Powter.

I admittedly have my own circles that I associate with, but the overwhelming response here is empathizing with the victims and ignoring the guy's claims that racism wasn't the driving factor.

[Yw-slayer]

I admittedly have my own circles that I associate with, but the overwhelming response here is empathizing with the victims and ignoring the guy's claims that racism wasn't the driving factor.

Nah, I know by and large you guys here would do the right thing. I was talking more about Orange Man, because we all know exactly what he would have done.

Also, I hate Daniel Powter and James Blunt.

[Tom Servo]

I think that's something we can all agree on.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No wonder YW doesn’t like me. I don’t have any problems with powter nor blunt! :p

Of course I don’t like that orange dude, but somehow he thinks I love him. Oh well.

[FaultyMario]

This was posted by billi in the Covid thread referring to Chinese diplomacy, but I feel it belongs here.


Absolute power corrupts absolutely...

In that vein, the best way to perpetuate absolute power has been the upper house of the British Union Parliament and the American Senate. They both have been marvelous dams that guard the elites from the currents of the peasantry.

Dude, the powerful few do not care about you... they can have titles such as Lord or Senator or Member of the Committee, their title doesn't matter, they are only there to protect the privileges of those in their class.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No doubt they perpetuate and maintain their power in whatever ways necessary, but not really sure if they have "absolute" power though.

Point of democracy and term limits are to make things less 'absolute'... so hopefully the country won't corrupt absolutely... at least people can maintain some hope that perhaps they could vote in a true public servant into office rather than having an office holder who expects the public to serve him and his donors.

[FaultyMario]

The rich and their privilege, homes... they have it absolutely locked (https://www.eui.eu/Documents/DepartmentsCentres/Economics/Seminarsevents/Mocetti.pdf#page=15).

[Crazed_Insanity]

Absolute, to me, it means the only way to unlock it is with fire power and destruction, or perhaps the dictator somehow repents of his sins and accepts Jesus...

In America, we managed to overthrow a dictator wannabe without bloodshed.

If we actually elect more officials like Bernie, we’ll definitely be able to unlock the grips of the rich fairly and without bloodshed.

[Rare White Ape]

The rich and their privilege, homes... they have it absolutely locked (https://www.eui.eu/Documents/DepartmentsCentres/Economics/Seminarsevents/Mocetti.pdf#page=15).

This tells me that no matter how many times there's a revolution or some kind of war that flips the table, we always end up at the same result.

[Crazed_Insanity]

We will always have the rich and we will always have the poor. Just as we will always have tall people and we will always have short people. It will be more difficult for tall parents to give birth to short kids and likewise for short parents to breed and end up with lots of tall kids. ;)

However, the fact that we continue to have 'new' rich people such as Bezos and Musk shows that the rich elites don't have an absolute lock on wealth. They could definitely use their wealth to influence politics and try to maintain their daddys' wealth, but nobody could stay rich forever. It'd probably be much harder in the past to have 'new' rich folks when we had kings... it'll be kinda difficult to be richer than the king because he has the absolute power to take your wealth away from you. Unless if your wealth made you so powerful... then you can probably overthrow the king and become king yourself?

Our societies are changing and hopefully we can continue to change for the better in a fairer way... without bloodshed. The rich today can only indirectly run politics. Yeah, it has a pretty tight grip on our government, but I don't think we're too corrupted to the point of can't change anything yet...

OTOH, once we do have majority of politicians like Bernie, I do hope they won't try to equalize everything. It just doesn't make sense to make everyone 'equally' tall, right? Similarly we shouldn't aim for equal wealth for everyone. We just need to be sure that people don't make and hold on to their money unfairly. The divide between the rich and poor should just be narrowed, not eliminated.

[FaultyMario]

If we actually elect more officials like Bernie, we’ll definitely be able to unlock the grips of the rich fairly and without bloodshed.

Get back to me when at least 10% of the Senate holds a progressive view, relative to their peers. Or not. My state of decay then might make things a little weird between us.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, my point is that with a corrupt dictator, there’s an absolute 0% chance.

With our current senate, only 42% are for living wages. Doesn’t quite reflect the popular will yet, but hopefully we’ll get there eventually...

[FaultyMario]

With our current senate, only 42% are for living wages. Doesn’t quite reflect the popular will yet, but hopefully we’ll get there eventually...

The Senate was designed to safeguard the land-owning elites who founded the U.S. from the will of the populace, most of whom where at their employ.
That is the whole point of the bicameral system, give the poor some and keep the best for your kin. The founding fathers copied it from the British empire, who had themselves copied it from the Roman landowners!!


The political system is rigged, the masses will never get there.

[FaultyMario]

Former President Trump’s lawyer Sidney Powell has sought to dismiss a $1.3 billion defamation lawsuit filed against her by Dominion Voting Systems, saying no one should have believed her repeated false claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election. In a court filing, Powell’s lawyers write, “No reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact.”

o0o

[MR2 Fan]

sounds like an Alex Jones defense


In other news, two mass shootings in the past week indicate that America is finally getting over COVID and going back to its previous insane crises

[drew]

Yep. "Normal" coming back with a vengeance.

[Fogelhund]

Americans make up approx 4.4% of the global population, but own 42% of the worlds guns.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Colorado seems to have more than its fair share of shootings... Anyway, yeah, I guess we are definitely getting back to 'normal'. :|



The political system is rigged, the masses will never get there.

I agree. However, IMHO, even in a less rigged system, the mass will never be rich. If everyone's rich, nobody's really rich! However, think of the progress we've made thus far. Slaves used to make no wages. We've made progress and now have slave wages! If the trend continues, maybe low skill workers could be making living wages eventually. Standard of living is generally getting better compared to decades or centuries ago, not getting worse, right? There are certainly lots of room for improvement, point is we are improving. Democracy/capitalism is making some progress. Very slowly, yes, but we have achieved progress... therefore I have some hope still.

Anyway, just out of curiosity, what would be an acceptable system in your opinion? As founding father of Mario Land, how would you rig, or design your nation's political system?

I think bottomline is probably you don't believe US congress will be able to gain more progressive politicians?

I know Bernie is getting old, but seeing the rise of AOC and Katie Porter gives me hope. Katie Porter is from a particularly red neighborhood too! Voters are really not that stupid and powerless...

[neanderthal]

Sigh ... (https://twitter.com/Purify_toast17/status/1374578611295031300?s=19)

[FaultyMario]

I think bottomline is probably you don't believe US congress will be able to gain more progressive politicians?

Congress? I said more or less: "Power is in the Senate".

Different societies have different ways to safeguard the privileges of the few against the will of the many. The most important privilege the American few have is the ability to deny the many their fair share of the benefits they produce and that safeguard is enshrined in the Senate. It hasn't changed in 200 years, so I assume it won't change in our lifetimes.

[Crazed_Insanity]

200 years ago, US land owners didn't even have to pay slaves any wages. Now, we're at poverty wages. Still not fair, but clearly things have changed and my hope is that it'll continue to change for the better.

[FaultyMario]

Not all labor in the colonies was slave labor, not all the people were poor. Privilege is no less real just because it affects each person differently.

Shades of gray, bud.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Sigh ... (https://twitter.com/Purify_toast17/status/1374578611295031300?s=19)

Bernie is not asking Trump to come back or to confirm Trump to any official positions or anything. Not sure if this is apples to apples comparison.

The dude is out of office now. Chance of insurrection is probably lower now compared to random mass shootings. Is it really necessary to ban somebody off of social media like that, yet there's currently no ban on the possibility of him holding future public office? It just doesn't seem right. However I suppose getting rid of his social media platforms is probably a good way to deter him from running again... or at least make his campaign harder...

Anyway, if you are not biased against Sanders to begin with, you should be able to see that Sanders feeling uncomfortable about Trump social media ban isn't because he feels sorry for Trump, but it's about giant tech companies have way too much power on their hands.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not all labor in the colonies was slave labor, not all the people were poor. Privilege is no less real just because it affects each person differently.

Shades of gray, bud.

Not all make make minimum wage and not all people are poor now. Even the poor in America are doing way better than the poorest of the poor around the world. Even the poorest of the poor today are probably doing better than the poor folks few hundred years ago...

You're saying US senate is 'absolutely' corrupt and there's no hope. I agree that our senate is corrupt, but not on absolute terms... and I'm the one saying that I see shades of hope, at least comparing to dictatorships.

[Rare White Ape]

Let’s run a contest for who has the shittest government.


https://youtu.be/AqNdKtahx58

[Yw-slayer]

Let’s run a contest for who has the shittest government.

I'm Malaysian. I GOT THIS

[Rikadyn]

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYUr4j9fnsUzHJA6iP-0x0vPdDzskPWiU

I offer Howard Zinn's "A people's history of the United States" in 25 videos

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYUr4j9fnsUzHJA6iP-0x0vPdDzskPWiU

I offer Howard Zinn's "A people's history of the United States" in 25 videos

I just saw that very 1st video... about whether food, like healthcare, should be free. Topic is kinda thought provoking...

I do agree with him that basic food ought to be free because there are indeed plentiful of them. However, should we really have a single payer national kitchen/restaurant though? Also, it's obvious food prepared by fast food places vs fancy restaurants taste different... fancier ingredients, fancier preps in a fancier setting... so naturally they charge a fancier price. It's based on market demands that determine whether if this fancy restaurant makes money or shut its doors. So I disagree that rich and poor should eat exactly the same... or we should demand the rich eat the same crap we're eating because that'll end up making eating not very enjoyable or demand we all eat as well as the rich... such fancy food definitely won't be that plentiful for all...

Similar thought process for healthcare I guess. I do want free/affordable healthcare, but single payer system is a bit worrisome to me.

So I think the best way to solve hunger and healthcare problem is probably thru UBI. Based on current market conditions, what's the min cost to purchase the most basic food and basic healthcare... and then just pay people that amount accordingly and then let the ultra rich pay for the cost of this UBI. For those way above poverty line, this UBI will be taxed right back... so the government won't be on the hook to feed everyone... nor will the government be on the hook to run anything itself... including the welfare system!

Also, finally, should basic housing be free? So formula for this UBI probably should be (UBI= basic food cost + average healthcare cost + average rent cost - current full time min wage) if we could implement that and still find homeless people on the streets, then it'd be obvious those homeless people probably need institutional help? Mental issues or addiction issues? Government's main job is to create conditions that'd help lower or maintain food, healthcare and rent costs...

Anyway, when I have time, I'll eventually watch all of those videos. Looks interesting... Thanks dude!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Let’s run a contest for who has the shittest government.


https://youtu.be/AqNdKtahx58

Wow, that's honest.

Shitty people make up shitty governments. All men were created equally good at first, but thanks to Adam's poor choice, shittiness has entered into us... so as his descendants, we're all pretty shitty. This is why is super important IMHO that we can't allow kings/dictators to rule over us anymore. In most western nations, at least we could have some sort of check and balances to prevent our governments from becoming too ineffectively shitty.

At least Aussie govt has been more effective at controlling the spread of the virus compared to US? That's a bright side!

For sure no governments' perfect and probably never will... but we can always try to push ourselves to get closer to that perfection...

[Dicknose]

Wow, that's honest.

And thats just the recent shitfuckery by the shitcunts. Yeah na mate.

Those vids are always good.
And most of the issues tend to be the old "not in touch with the real world". I think thats a problem with most democracies, people elected come from privilege and even when they dont, they quickly lose touch when they spend all their time in a cesspool, playing a dirty game and surrounded by... shitcunts.

[FaultyMario]

Like that democrat senator who did her high-school nay vote to the $15 minimum wage. She first was elected as a "progressive" and then was steered into "moderation" by donors.

[Tom Servo]

Republicans are depriving voters of water.

Democrats think that is insane.

If you still think both parties are the same, you’re not pure. You’re stupid.


https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1375258492865445892

[Crazed_Insanity]

Like that democrat senator who did her high-school nay vote to the $15 minimum wage. She first was elected as a "progressive" and then was steered into "moderation" by donors.

Not just senate, Obama was the progressive candidate compared to Hillary...

When it comes to foreign invasions, there’s really not much difference between W and Obama.

As for min wage, yeah, the 2 parties are different. GOP is 100% against raising it and dems are only 16% against raising it.

It the 2 parties were truly polar opposites, we’d have $15 min wage now. But thanks to those 8 stupid ass dem senators, we have end result being the ‘same’.

Telling me that you’re different but when it matter the most, you fail to deliver, what difference does it make?

Stop telling us you’re different. Just show us. Just as political correctness is all words. I’d like to see just pure correctness please. Words backed by actions.

My later half of the post is directed toward Ted Lieu.

[Tom Servo]

While I'd say the fact that democrats aren't going so far to disenfranchise people as making it illegal to give water to people waiting in line to vote is a way of showing us a difference, you (and most anyone else outside of Trump) can actually send that message directly to him via the Twitter link I included.

[neanderthal]

I'm Malaysian. I GOT THIS

Um, born and raised in Zimbabwe mate. Literally the only country that's in the fourth world. Where everyone was a billionaire. Where one third of the economy is the informal sector, one third is money people like me send home, and the other third is the actual formal economy. Where there's been cholera episodes. Cholera, literally caused by not having clean water. Bloody nightmare.

You can take second. A distant second.

[Crazed_Insanity]

While I'd say the fact that democrats aren't going so far to disenfranchise people as making it illegal to give water to people waiting in line to vote is a way of showing us a difference, you (and most anyone else outside of Trump) can actually send that message directly to him via the Twitter link I included.

I don’t have a Twitter account and don’t care to open one.

Anyway, I do like Ted, but I don’t like that particular ‘defense’ he used.

Any stupid idiot can tell the difference between republicans and democrats. When I say the 2 parties are the same, I’m referring to the things that people can’t really differentiate anymore... such as foreign policy.

With things like min wage, at least GOP politicians are straight up telling people that they’re against raising it. So I was not surprised to see 0% supporting it. I was surprised to see so many dems against it and dems rolled over so quickly because of parliamentarian ruling...

So yeah, on issues like that, dems are definitely different but end result is exactly the same. There wasn’t any compromise of $14 or $13 or even $8 min wage.

[Crazed_Insanity]

And thats just the recent shitfuckery by the shitcunts. Yeah na mate.

Those vids are always good.
And most of the issues tend to be the old "not in touch with the real world". I think thats a problem with most democracies, people elected come from privilege and even when they dont, they quickly lose touch when they spend all their time in a cesspool, playing a dirty game and surrounded by... shitcunts.

Imagine how in touch with the world royal dictators will be!

They could not only rape, but also murder journalist and US won’t sanction against them and still wants to be their friend.

Now that is demonstration of absolute power!

[JoshInKC]

https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1375258492865445892

3698

[Yw-slayer]

You can take second. A distant second.

This is one contest I'm happy to not come first in.

[Crazed_Insanity]

3698

With this same or not the same argument...

From gerrymandering, to filibustering, to budget reconciliation... whatever special rules, things almost always tip in favor of the republicans, even when dems are supposedly in charge! The relief bill was only possible because Biden made it a campaign promise. Georgian voters also gave us a senate majority thanks to that promise. If he failed to deliver on that, dems will lose badly come next election cycle. Still, have you noticed that when they were negotiating the relief bill, they were always nickel and diming the money payout to the people? From $2000 down to $1400... also lowering the income level... I really don't understand why they need to spend so much time figuring things out using 2019 tax info. Some seemingly well off people could be laid off in 2020! Why not just send the money to EVERYBODY right away... and then when we do the 2020 tax returns, just tax that money back from families who were NOT impacted by the pandemic. How hard is that?

Yes, dems are so good, when things don't go as planned, it's always the fault of the republicans and the parliamentarians or even pragmatism. I just get the feeling that dems are always dragging their feet and often use those excuses for not getting certain things done when it's clear that it's their donors who want them to not get it done.

I suppose the party strategy is to use that to convince the voting public to give dems a super super majority... because it's obvious even if dems have the super majority, some will still defect and vote republican... so ideally to be safe, we need to have more than 80% dems occupying congress in order to get things done. That's be the only way for dem party to not only say things differently, but also be able to truly act differently. (assuming lobbyists won't convert more of them...)

Until then, we can expect our government to creep further and further to the right.

Unless the progressive wing could somehow become more powerful in the future and be able to pull left some more... unfortunately the progressives are being suppressed by both major parties. However, hopefully more grassroot support will eventually defeat the 2 major corrupt parties. I don't really want to defeat the dem party, but if a reform isn't possible, then naturally we need to defeat it somehow.

Ted Lieu really should direct that tweet to republican voters, rather than progressive voters. Republican voters definitely don't believe the 2 parties are the same. They need to help republican voters see why dems are better. Dems don't need to help progressive voters to see why dems are better than republicans. We already know that. We just want the democratic party to be able to move left more... rather than remaining moderate and continue to slowly creep right. This creeping to the right is why we say the 2 parties are essentially the same. We are not saying the 2 parties are exactly the same...

Anyway, I hope you guys can understand where I'm coming from now... rather than continue to think I'm a fucking idiot who couldn't tell the difference between the 2 parties and 50 shades of gray...

[Tom Servo]

3698

Hahahah

[FaultyMario]

John and Megan's Arrigo wedding reception took place in Mar a lago over the weekend.

The former president got on the mic (https://www.tmz.com/videos/2021-03-28-032821-donald-trump-1060075/) to say a few words for the happy couple.

Except that he didn't, and he instead ranted on and on about the current president because he is obviously a mentally ill old man, who –in spite of his visible limitations as a politician and functioning member of society– still garnered the votes of more than 74 million people and he keeps receiving the business of people like the Arrigos.

Fucking scary.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This is what happens when the only choices we have are between lesser of the 2 evils.

I’m pretty certain Roofer doesn’t really like most of the GOP politicians including Trump, a lot of conservatives know Trump is actually a NY liberal! However, they’re just more afraid of Biden and even more afraid of Sanders because of socialism. :|

When people are not voting for what they want and only focusing on what they don’t want, this is what happens I guess...

After some more thoughts, I also want to say that voters can’t be blamed fully regarding lesser of the two evils way... in a way, things are rigged this way by the elite so that regardless of who we vote for, the establishment wins.

I really see the progressives with grassroot support are our only hope to reforming our system.

[neanderthal]

John and Megan's Arrigo wedding reception took place in Mar a lago over the weekend.

The former president got on the mic (https://www.tmz.com/videos/2021-03-28-032821-donald-trump-1060075/) to say a few words for the happy couple.

Except that he didn't, and he instead ranted on and on about the current president because he is obviously a mentally ill old man, who –in spite of his visible limitations as a politician and functioning member of society– still garnered the votes of more than 74 million people and he keeps receiving the business of people like the Arrigos.

Fucking scary.

Something something sleep with the dogs something something get fleas. The Arrigos can get fucked.

[neanderthal]

President Biden cancelled student debt for the most vulnerable (handicapped) and the brocialists been real quiet.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What do you expect when Biden doesn't deliver what the brocialists actually want?

To be fair, I do kinda agree with Biden's reasoning for only allowing $10k loan forgiveness rather than $50k forgiveness. Government shouldn't subsidize people going to Harvard and Yale... they can probably make their money back. Still, I'd imagine 4 year at Harvard would cost way more than $50k? Maybe rather than forgiveness, just at least make student loans interest free? I dunno, I'm not sure where I stand with student loans. Important thing is not allow the schools and banks to prey on naive students getting stuck with a huge loan that there's no way for them to pay back. Shady schools should be shut down and loans on those schools should be forgiven... and tuition should be perhaps refunded as well thru future tax credits?

[Phil_SS]

My wife and I discuss when it comes up and we are in complete agreement on it. We do not belive that there should be any student loan forgiveness except for in special.cases.

All they need to do is make the student loans interest free, or even a very low interest rate, like up to 1%. The issue is the predatory system and interest rates that have people in financial hell until they are middle aged.

And yes, it costs a shitload more to go to school at Harvard, try like 50k a year, not counting room and board. Even the big public universities, like Penn State, are in the 25-30k a year with room and board. That ends up being like 100-120k in debt and your interest rate is like 6-7%, some loans are as high as like 15%. I can buy a 100k house with an interest rate of 2.5%.

There is no effin way the education interest rate should be higher than buying a house or even a car. What is going on now is no different than when the credit card companies prayed on college age students in the late 90s early 2000s. They need to put a stop to it and invest in education.

That being said, if they forgive 50k, you are damn sure right we are going to take it. :) :assclown:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, under normal circumstances, I’m not sure I’d agree with $50k or complete student loan forgiveness. However, considering the pandemic, I’m not going to be too against it.

The important issue isn’t just about forgiving past debts, but we need to make sure future generations can benefit from free or affordable education too.

I guess it’s similar problem as healthcare? It’ll be impossible for everyone to have equal everything. Govt just need to provide free or affordable basic services and if the rich can pay more for better services out of their own pockets, so be it.

[Jason]

Personally I think student loan forgiveness should be very aggressive, probably more than 10k. Saddling people with debt at a young age on top of medical costs rising, and housing costs rising, is creating a very weak lower and middle class in this country.

That being said, any student loan forgiveness needs to come with changes to the loan programs themselves. Caps need to be in place for public college prices, if the government is going to be handing out loans. Right now schools can make prices be whatever they feel like, because they know any tuition is backed by the US Government, and that’s gotta change.

[Tom Servo]

I'm mostly with Jason and partially with Phil. I agree that the interest rates are ridiculous on student loans and that they are an extension of the predatory practices credit cards used when I was in school. That's *why* I think they should be forgiven, it's bullshit that I know people who have been paying their monthly payments for years and actually owe more now than they did when they left school. The predators should eat that cost, full stop.

When my cousin in Norway went to university, not only did she not have to pay, she got a monthly stipend for living expenses from the government. It's a benefit to society to have an educated populace, and I think it's a far better use of taxpayer money than more military hardware.

[Dicknose]

My wife and I discuss when it comes up and we are in complete agreement on it. We do not belive that there should be any student loan forgiveness except for in special.cases.

All they need to do is make the student loans interest free, or even a very low interest rate, like up to 1%. The issue is the predatory system and interest rates that have people in financial hell until they are middle aged.


Isnt the issue - charging for university/college education?
We do here, but didnt for a while. I was lucky and got 5 years of university and 2 degrees, all free of charges (except tiny student union fess, $100 a year and got lots of benefits)

As a country you need to decide where govt funds (ie tax payer funds) go. Why not start with "first year is on the govt", then maybe add some incentives on top of that - come from a family where your parents didnt go to college - get 50% discount. Come from a school area with low college rates, get a discount.
I know colleges offer lots of scholarships (my niece is on one), but these could still be on top of any govt funding.

Our tertiary education is subsidised by the govt, the fees are much lower for local students than international full fee (and still very popular and competitive with other countries). And our HECS (student debt) doesnt have interest, just inflation adjustment. Also you dont have to pay back until your income is over a certain amount.

[Dicknose]

When my cousin in Norway went to university, not only did she not have to pay, she got a monthly stipend for living expenses from the government. It's a benefit to society to have an educated populace, and I think it's a far better use of taxpayer money than more military hardware.
And probably part of a reason that Norway (and other Scandinavian countries) tend to be near the top of "best country" lists.

[Crazed_Insanity]

One thing US bucks the trend is that our best schools are private where as most other nations tend to have their top schools being public.

If we look at global ranking, top 4 in the world are all US private schools! So I guess this proves capitalism is better performing?
However, is such performance worth it? I guess that’s up to the buyer to decide. Taxpayers definitely should not be on the hook to forgive those debts. Government also should not force MIT, Stanford, Harvard and Caltech to lower their tuition prices... as long as they’re are preforming and there are people willing to pay and sustain it, just let it be. Reforms should focus on shutting down schools like Trump university... and ensuring public schools are affordable or free.

[JoshInKC]

Yeah, $10k is a drop in the bucket for current/recent students- it should be a lot more than that, and all interest should be forgiven.
Important note - Our society desperately needs to revise it's mindset about university - We put too much pressure on 18-year-olds to make decisions which hugely affect the rest of their lives, for not very much good reason beyond a) what made sense 40 years ago, and b)Employers saying "Hell, there's enough supply that we can hire college graduates for minimum wage + $.25 to be receptionists or to work in the call center."

So, let me drop some numbers for you about the current costs of attending a good state school - Your average BA/BS takes a minimum of 120-130 credit hours to graduate - Each of those credit hours costs ~$340 for in-state tuition (out of state is $890) so there's about $44K right off the bat. Then each semester (8 semesters is an idealised number, usually students end up going longer than that) they get charged a $490 "campus fee" and $3 per credit hour "infrastructure fee". Finally, some schools/programs within the university charge their own per hour fee from $25(urban planning) to $332(law) but those are outside the scope of what we're looking at.

Thus far, we're at 44000+4000+400=$48400, and that's assuming you're living and eating with your parents.

Fortunately there are scholarships, so a lot of kids (I have no idea of the percentages) don't have to pay all of that almost $50k. Some few get a full ride (which is actually just tuition, not the fees), but many that I've talked to might end up getting something like $10-15K knocked off the final total in chunks. So that's something at least.
And just as a side note: Most of the people doing the teaching of these students are themselves graduate students who make $19-23k per year and free tuition (Still gotta pay those fees though!).

Anyway - University should be free, but to make that reasonable we need to change america. Therefore as a series of stopgaps, I propose making community colleges and technical schools free, a minimum of $20k in current loan forgiveness along with full forgiveness of interest, restoration of public funding of public universities, all education loans interest-free, the burning of for-profit schools, administrator bonfires on all quads, and the chemical castration of business majors.

[neanderthal]

Yeah, $10k is a drop in the bucket for current/recent students- it should be a lot more than that, and all interest should be forgiven.
Important note - Our society desperately needs to revise it's mindset about university - We put too much pressure on 18-year-olds to make decisions which hugely affect the rest of their lives, for not very much good reason beyond a) what made sense 40 years ago, and b)Employers saying "Hell, there's enough supply that we can hire college graduates for minimum wage + $.25 to be receptionists or to work in the call center."

So, let me drop some numbers for you about the current costs of attending a good state school - Your average BA/BS takes a minimum of 120-130 credit hours to graduate - Each of those credit hours costs ~$340 for in-state tuition (out of state is $890) so there's about $44K right off the bat. Then each semester (8 semesters is an idealised number, usually students end up going longer than that) they get charged a $490 "campus fee" and $3 per credit hour "infrastructure fee". Finally, some schools/programs within the university charge their own per hour fee from $25(urban planning) to $332(law) but those are outside the scope of what we're looking at.

Thus far, we're at 44000+4000+400=$48400, and that's assuming you're living and eating with your parents.

Fortunately there are scholarships, so a lot of kids (I have no idea of the percentages) don't have to pay all of that almost $50k. Some few get a full ride (which is actually just tuition, not the fees), but many that I've talked to might end up getting something like $10-15K knocked off the final total in chunks. So that's something at least.
And just as a side note: Most of the people doing the teaching of these students are themselves graduate students who make $19-23k per year and free tuition (Still gotta pay those fees though!).

Anyway - University should be free, but to make that reasonable we need to change america. Therefore as a series of stopgaps, I propose making community colleges and technical schools free, a minimum of $20k in current loan forgiveness along with full forgiveness of interest, restoration of public funding of public universities, all education loans interest-free, the burning of for-profit schools, administrator bonfires on all quads, and the chemical castration of business majors.

1,000,000% agree. But before you even do that you need to double OR TRIPLE the floor for faculty pay. The ones at the top who are tenured and making $100k+ aren't the ones i'm talking about. My step dad was one of those; taught Pan African history at CSUN with many years of tenure. Not him. The junior staff who don't even have a set schedule of classes for each semester and have to teach at four colleges just to scrape a living together. THAT'S who i'm taking about.
And not just university teachers. Every level.

And care workers. Kindergarten staff. Childcare staff. Etc. They should be all federal employees, with the necessary credentials and certifications, and it should all be free to the citizenry.


We need to have, as a country, a fundamental shift in the ideas of what we value. Why is a basketball coach being paid millions while ... (don't tell me the answer, it's rhetorical, I know the reason why!!!!) We need more teachers, more better paid teachers, more social workers, more better paid social workers, and so on. Policemen should NOT be police without a degree that has a large psychology bent. This thing of hiring any ogre to be a cop need to stop.

A mentally ill person having a breakdown doesn't need police intervention. That's a social worker fully equipped with a plethora of social services they can offer to the person having an episode. That means facilities to house and treat such people. Mental institutions. Yes. Why the fuck not. Why were they even closed in the first place? Fuck Reagan!!! And we need to also fundamentally shift our thinking on mental health and services.

When you begin to think of the inter generational mental anguish we've put Native Americans, African Americans, Latino Americans and immigrants, Muslims, poor white Americans etc through, you can see that a lot of the effect of that is manifested in mental anxiety issues. Many the addictions, for instance, to (name whatever it is) can probably be traced back to a thing or event or a series of such. Your dad beat your mum, coz his dad beat his mum, and all that, manifests completely differently for each person. Then, we act like that's a normal thing too. Generations of single parent families because the men were targeted by police. Native Americans. Blacks. Latinos. Poor whites. We all know those issues.

But let me get off my soapbox here coz i've got all day you've got things to do.

[neanderthal]

And, addendum, we need to reinvigorate interest and training in the trades. Trade schools. Not everyone has to go to university.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No argument there!

Just saw an article saying that LA has like a dozen life guards making more than $200k/yr! I guess they’re the tenure lifeguards?

Anyway, how can we really reform our entire society at this point? Seems rather hopeless even for a guy living in Winnie the Pooh land... :(

I really think UBI is probably one of the easiest way to go. Give everyone enough money to buy at least the most basic food, housing, medical care. For those entry level professors or life guards... they will be able to afford to hang in there until they make the big bucks later? We also no longer have to worry about min wage since people don’t need to work to just make a living? Wages will become determined truly by the market!

Of course for those who makes enough money, UBI will likely be taxes right back, and for the super rich, we encourage Forbes to rank who paid the most taxes(as bragging rights for how rich they are?) ;)

[Yw-slayer]

Imma just drop in to say that the crazy high cost of a first degree in the US is but one reason my kids are not going there for their first degree. Kthxbai

[JoshInKC]

Yeah, there's no way I'd recommend it to anybody international unless it was a true full-ride scenario for some reason. Costs are even worse for international students - Enough so that many universities (including my own) spend a lot of money trying to recruit them (especially Chinese) students. They're regarded as a huge piggybank by the administration.

[2ndMoparMan]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/02/us/mlb-all-star-game-moving-atlanta-spt/index.html

lewl, get fucked Kemp.

[JoshInKC]

nice.

[Rare White Ape]

Inb4 tAkE tHe PoLiTiCs OuT mAh SpOrT

[neanderthal]

AOCs donations to some Democratic Congress members get returned.

AOC (or her campaign) donated $5000 without going through the DCCC. Donated directly to the campaigns. Great right? Supporting the team.

Not so quick. Vulnerable Democrats in very red areas will get tarnished by association, and some have already vowed to return the money.

If only she knew how poisonous she is in certain parts of the country. And acted like it, rather than acting like an arrogant bro.

I really want to like her. She's cute (it's a fact. Yes, I know we don't judge political men by their looks) and smart and has some really good policy ideas, but she's very much like Bernie in her "damn the masses, full speed ahead" approach.

Still waiting for tact to become part of her repertoire. Tact and guile. She could learn a lot from the Queen: Pelosi.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You’ll never like a progressive. Don’t even bother to try, no matter how cute she is! :p

I really hope she won’t become another Pelosi.

I truly believe moderate corporate Democrats have no future. Our nation will continue to move in the direction of where corporate republicans want to go.

Everyone in this world can see that American is always creeping to the right, in favor of giant corporations , even when dems are in charge.

Without the likes of Sanders, AOC, Katie porter,... I would’ve completely given up on US politics.

[neanderthal]

70% support for President Biden's proposed Infrastructure Bill. It's supposed to be paid for by new corporate taxes, on corporations that paid $0 in taxes. That's favorable by 2-1 in public opinion polls.
~50% of self identified Republicans also support that Infrastructure bill.
Green jobs. More green power. Rail lines. Bridges. Tunnels. Roads. In home health care workers. Hardened electrical grid. Expanded EV charging. Electrify entire federal fleet. Increased American jobs. Lot's of good stuff in the bill.

And where do we find that the bill will get ZERO support; the Republicans in politics Congress. McConnell has already said they won't support it. :sadbanana:

But yeah, Democrats and Republicans are the same ...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dude, we’ve been thru this. They are the same when it comes to min wage remember? Voters have overwhelming bipartisan support for a living wage, but dems cannot muster enough votes from within itself to get it done even with budget reconciliation... and hides behind parliamentarian...

Like I’ve always said, yes, the 2 parties are different because GOP is 100% against the will of the people, dems are only 16% against the will of the people. So if you look at the numbers, clearly dems look a lot better.

However, the end result is the ‘same’. American workers continue to enjoy slave wages in the foreseeable future.

I want to see visible different results.

Progressives are pushing for different results from republicans as well too. It is mind boggling to me that dems are fighting both republicans and progressives on issues.

What kind of change do dems really want? I suspect no change. Yeah, we may gain more voting rights and more trans gender restrooms, but when it comes to policies that really make a difference, no change.

As the specifics of infrastructure bill... personally I can’t really grasp how much a trillion is, but considering we spent 2T on relief bill, this infrastructure bill is also another 2T. Does it sound like enough to you guys?

Yeah yeah, I know GOP doesn’t want to even spend a dime, but forget them for now. No need to compare ourselves to idiots. I can agree dems are not the same idiot. So let’s Just consider the matter purely by itself. A short term relief bill cost the same as a longterm way overdue infrastructure bill cost about the same?

Either we really gave america too much relief or perhaps $2T isn’t going to be enough? Of course something is better than nothing. I have to give dems some credit.

Will Biden get what he wanted? Let’s hope so, assuming the GOP and the parliamentarian won’t get in the way.

[neanderthal]

Joe done put in the work. This picture was *bleak* 3 months ago.

3703

[2ndMoparMan]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/05/politics/asa-hutchinson-arkansas-transgender-health-care-veto/index.html

Great thing vetoed for a shitty reason.

[Rare White Ape]

My take on that is that it’s a shitty thing vetoed for a good reason.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I think 2ndMM slipped it up for some reason... ;)

Anyway, it's still a rather pointless veto though because the state legislators have voted overwhelmingly for it, thus rendering this veto as just a show. Maybe that's what 2ndMM meant?

With these kind of issues, the liberals and conservatives are pretty divided. If we are really trying to be pragmatic about it, just let the red states do whatever they want. It's pointless to fight it IMHO, since we don't live in that state.

What we should be fighting for are issues that both liberal and conservative voters can both agree on. Such as raising the min wage! Dems need to show how out of touch republican politicians are... and perhaps by gaining more and more power on the federal level, then we can write new laws to force the states to meet up to the level of the federal government on such issues...

Sadly at the moment, I still think Democratic establishment are like Wells Fargo bank... acting like social justice warriors for gay rights, but treated their employees poorly and ripped their customers off too.

Yeah, it's way better than Bank of Trump, but still sucks.

[neanderthal]

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1379144589005754370?s=19

[neanderthal]

:facepalm. (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/06/contact-tracing-public-health-479439)

So, millions of people are out of work and they're suggesting ...


The Biden administration is weighing whether to create an Americorps-style volunteer workforce to bolster tracing efforts.

Sometimes the intent is good but the execution (intended execution in this case) is terrible.

[Dicknose]

You dont have to worry about min wage if you arent paying anything.
Actually I head about a lot of unpaid internships etc, usually by places that could afford to pay. Yes yes - learning opportunity, experience, contacts. But its a tough start when young people are told they are worth nothing.

[neanderthal]

You dont have to worry about min wage if you arent paying anything.
Actually I head about a lot of unpaid internships etc, usually by places that could afford to pay. Yes yes - learning opportunity, experience, contacts. But its a tough start when young people are told they are worth nothing.

All work should be paid. At least at minimum wage. Even prisoners.

[JoshInKC]

Yeah, I don't like anything about that kind of internship - Not only are the companies getting work for free, but they're a very effective filter for sorting potential paid employees by class.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Paid or not paid, I don't understand why we need to do contact tracing at this stage?

Plus, given that some americans can tell you to fuck off by a simple request to put on a mask, can you imagine contact tracers telling them to quarantine? They'll probably shoot them.

It'd suck if you get shot on the job as an unpaid intern. Even with pay, not sure the job would be worth it. Just focus on making more vaccines please!

[2ndMoparMan]

yeah, now that I read that again...derp. Doesn't matter now anyway since they overrode the veto.

[neanderthal]

Yeah, I don't like anything about that kind of internship - Not only are the companies getting work for free, but they're a very effective filter for sorting potential paid employees by class.

It's such a class driven scheme.

But, then again, our society is rigged to favour the wealthy and connected. It explains why we have so many awful journalists in prime positions. The poor and marginalised are not in the class of people who are able to take unpaid internships. And a lot of employers won't even look at your application if you haven't done one.

[neanderthal]

Lauren Underwood's at it again, trying to make people lives better.

https://twitter.com/RepUnderwood/status/1380265937396436997?s=19

[neanderthal]

Fuck Andrew Yang. (https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/city-hall/story/2021/04/12/yang-tweets-about-street-vendors-and-ignites-fury-on-the-left-1373504)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don’t understand what was so wrong with his tweet about illegal street vendors. We couldn’t give people living wages so we have to turn a blind eye on illegal street vendors?

I thought the bigger blunder yang made was sharing the story of giving away his dog on national pet day because one of his son developed allergic reactions to the dog...

My wife would definitely not vote for a guy like that! He definitely picked a wrong day to share that story... actually my wife would be pissed to hear such story any day. One does not abandon pets! Abandon annoying kids maybe, but definitely not pets! :p

[Tom Servo]

One thing I can agree with you (or maybe just your wife?) on. That's a lifetime commitment.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I agree with my wife too, Andrew Yang definitely screwed up on that one. For sure I won’t tell my wife about that story if Andrew were to run for the WH again... for sure she would black list him for that!

I’m just glad my daughter isn’t allergic to anything. It’d definitely be torturous too see your kid and pet becoming incompatible like that...

[Tom Servo]

Well, that's easy. You send the ingrate to an orphanage.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ha!

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/pelosis-husband-purchase-microsoft-stock

Fuck Pelosi and all the rich establishment politicians who play with stocks while holding public office!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Besides my gripe against politicians, I'm really having a difficult time understanding why cops everywhere in the US are continuing on the same tactics as if BLM movement hasn't happened.

Are they just so frustrated on the job that they don't care anymore or something? Or perhaps these are just outlier incidences being reported too much? Or perhaps somebody is telling them it's okay to do their job however they want?

It just seems like there's no end in sight with this police brutality issue... similar with our efforts on gun control.

[JoshInKC]

Or perhaps somebody is telling them it's okay to do their job however they want?
Yes.
and that somebody is them, and all the other assholes with "thin blue line" flags who say things like "Back the blue". They're the biggest, most heavily armed gang in the country and they don't like people who think they shouldn't be.
Edit: And black people, they really don't like black people.

[neanderthal]

Yes.
and that somebody is them, and all the other assholes with "thin blue line" flags who say things like "Back the blue". They're the biggest, most heavily armed gang in the country and they don't like people who think they shouldn't be.
Edit: And black people, they really don't like black people.

Even fuckers who say stuff like
"maybe black lives don't matter..."

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes.
and that somebody is them, and all the other assholes with "thin blue line" flags who say things like "Back the blue". They're the biggest, most heavily armed gang in the country and they don't like people who think they shouldn't be.
Edit: And black people, they really don't like black people.

Well, I beg to differ, the most heavily armed gang would be the US military, not the police! :p

Similarly, even under the Obama administration, we have no problems hunting down and killing brown people.

Gun lobbyists/lovers could justify themselves with 2A, but such brutality can’t really be justified...

Of course violent rioters can’t justify themselves too. 2 injustices don’t make things just. Hope we can make some progress on this soon. ATM, I just don’t see much progress. I can’t even imagine what would happen if the cop in George Floyd case got acquitted again...

Pandemic would be the least of our problems...

[Tom Servo]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/pelosis-husband-purchase-microsoft-stock

Fuck Pelosi and all the rich establishment politicians who play with stocks while holding public office!


I'm curious why you say that in this instance. As far as I can tell, there's no indication that it had any effect on her lawmaking (i.e., she proposed legislation, voted for, or chose not to vote for other legislation that would have enriched her further with this stock).

[Crazed_Insanity]

Do you think it’s a good idea for lawmakers and their spouses to be able to buy/sell stocks and never have insider information, conflict of interest issues?

US law makers already don’t have to worry about retirement. Government is going to take good care of you. You don’t really need to invest for that anymore...

Now if you really want to make a lot of money, go work at wall st.! If public office is really your passion, then don’t you think it’s wise to stay clear?

You can’t serve both money and public at the same time. Something’s gotta give...

Microsoft’s $22 billion military contract, whether Pelosi voted for it or not, she can’t be unaware, right?

[Tom Servo]

I don't think there's any reason why lawmakers and their spouses should be unable to invest in stocks, we already have laws against insider trading and manipulating the stock market.

That article leaves out a lot of potential information. Was Microsoft expected to get that contract already? Were all the stock purchases options (at which point the entire thing is moot, because it all comes down to the strike price - if the price of stock goes up drastically, it doesn't affect the buyer).

It might be wise to steer clear, but it might be wiser not to, yet again, plaster the "there is only black and white" veneer over the things you read from....maybe not the most reputable of sources (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/washington-examiner/)?

[Tom Servo]

Aside, and no joking around - Billi, your sourcing lately has been a huge amount of right-leaning propagandist news sources and Jordan Peterson. I'm honestly worried about the media you're consuming.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I read both left and right news. I try not to shield myself in bubbles.

If you think it’s fine for policy makers to buy and sell stocks and they have zero access to insider information, then we should agree to disagree right there.

If you want more details, here: https://www.thestreet.com/.amp-mishtalk/mishtalk/economics/nancy-pelosis-husband-uses-call-options-to-buy-microsoft-ahead-of-big-govt-contract

Hopefully those details are not made up to slander against the speaker, I wonder if liberal media would want to mention this at all. Probably easier to just fuck with Andrew yang for dissing illegal street vendors...

[Tom Servo]

I think it's fine for them to buy and sell stocks, but I didn't say they have zero access to insider information. I said there are already laws against insider trading, and as far as I know those apply to congresspeople too. If there's evidence of insider trading, it should be investigated. I don't know if they had access to inside information or not, and that's very different than me saying they have zero access to insider information.

That article has a lot of talk about "appearances" and "might be's". Part of it looks bad, though I still argue the "exercising options" part doesn't. It wouldn't matter if the exercise happened before or after the news, the result would be the same, there would be literally no advantage to exercising them before the news came out. Nevertheless, there's no actual evidence of anything cited in there, just a lot of "hmm....". They also keep mentioning the Roblox part - that's not even remotely related to the defense deal Microsoft got. They bought the shares the day the company IPO'd. What's unusual about that? It's just as possible that they thought Roblox would be the next Minecraft and, like Minecraft, Microsoft might acquire Roblox.

That article also spends a lot of time repeating something you said, which is the idea that she's already got enough money, why does she need to make more? This is not an opinion I've heard you have about any other wealthy person. If she were not wealthy, would that change your opinion on whether or not she should be allow to trade stocks? Is there a net worth limit where it moves from "probably not insider trading" to "definitely insider trading"? If there isn't, why does it keep getting mentioned?

Finally, there's a difference between left and right leaning reliable news sources and propaganda. The Washington Examiner isn't as bad as, say, The Epoch Times, but it's still better used to wrap fish than to read. FWIW, I just searched WaPo and the NY Times for "Andrew Yang vendors", then searched on their websites for "Andrew Yang" and sorted by date and couldn't find an article on either "fuck[ing] with" him over street vendors.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, bottom line is that I believe public office holders should either sell all of their stocks or at least not touch them while they’re holding office. Likewise if you own businesses. Doesn’t matter if you’re Trump or Pelosi, we don’t need politicians who are in it to enrich themselves. If the lure of stock market or if your family businesses are just too important to you, then please don’t enter public offices.

If this were an opinion piece on liberal media about a Republican politician, will your attitude change?

If not, then yeah, let’s just agree to disagree on this. I just think you are too naive to believe that congress has no insider knowledge.

Regarding Andrew Yang, I guess only Neanderthal wants to fuck him? ;) seriously, I have zero issues with expanding legal permits rather than just turn a blind eye on illegal street vendors. I really don’t understand what that fuss was about.

[neanderthal]

He doesn't get it. (https://twitter.com/Fly_Sistah/status/1382347194326511620?s=19) smh

Here's a tweet of some of the highlights low lights. https://twitter.com/RaymondDelRey1/status/1382401259760726018?s=19

[neanderthal]

I think it's fine for them to buy and sell stocks, but I didn't say they have zero access to insider information. I said there are already laws against insider trading, and as far as I know those apply to congresspeople too. If there's evidence of insider trading, it should be investigated. I don't know if they had access to inside information or not, and that's very different than me saying they have zero access to insider information.

That article has a lot of talk about "appearances" and "might be's". Part of it looks bad, though I still argue the "exercising options" part doesn't. It wouldn't matter if the exercise happened before or after the news, the result would be the same, there would be literally no advantage to exercising them before the news came out. Nevertheless, there's no actual evidence of anything cited in there, just a lot of "hmm....". They also keep mentioning the Roblox part - that's not even remotely related to the defense deal Microsoft got. They bought the shares the day the company IPO'd. What's unusual about that? It's just as possible that they thought Roblox would be the next Minecraft and, like Minecraft, Microsoft might acquire Roblox.

That article also spends a lot of time repeating something you said, which is the idea that she's already got enough money, why does she need to make more? This is not an opinion I've heard you have about any other wealthy person. If she were not wealthy, would that change your opinion on whether or not she should be allow to trade stocks? Is there a net worth limit where it moves from "probably not insider trading" to "definitely insider trading"? If there isn't, why does it keep getting mentioned?

Finally, there's a difference between left and right leaning reliable news sources and propaganda. The Washington Examiner isn't as bad as, say, The Epoch Times, but it's still better used to wrap fish than to read. FWIW, I just searched WaPo and the NY Times for "Andrew Yang vendors", then searched on their websites for "Andrew Yang" and sorted by date and couldn't find an article on either "fuck[ing] with" him over street vendors.

It was a tweet. https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1381245547051372548?s=19

Simplify your search to "Andrew Yang street vendors" and you'll get a lot of hits.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Isn’t it amazing that the die hard democrats have no issues with Pelosi trading stocks yet have endless complaints with Bernie, AOC and Yang.

[neanderthal]

I'm ignoring you, but here's a clue.
A. Hasn't done the work.
B. Hasn't done the work.
C. Hasn't done the work.

Now, why do you think
endless complaints about... that might be.

[neanderthal]

You have to love conservative hypocrisy (https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1382384612643631111?s=19)

[neanderthal]

https://twitter.com/chris_notcapn/status/1382393046566891520?s=19

Something something good cops

The tweet says it all. But did you know officer Kwiatkowski was promoted the same year. :sadbanana

[neanderthal]

I was today years old when I learned that Gutenberg did NOT in fact invent the printing press...

https://twitter.com/hermit_hwarang/status/1382358034412937219?s=19

The education system is so gentrified. All this time ...

[Tom Servo]

It was a tweet. https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1381245547051372548?s=19

Simplify your search to "Andrew Yang street vendors" and you'll get a lot of hits.

Oh, yeah, I'm aware of the whole Andrew Yang street vendor thing. I just have a distinct feeling that what he considers "liberal media" paid little to no attention to it as opposed to "fuck[ing] with" him because it was easier. Mostly my point was that both that and the Pelosi story make for fun articles from propagandist newspapers while the "mainstream media" mostly just ignored them because, for the vast majority of the country, they're non-stories.

[Jason]

Re lawmakers and trading

Personally I don’t think they or their immediate circles should be trading individual stocks and should be limited to index funds and the like. They have too much say when it comes to the economy and the stock market, it creates a conflict of interest even without “insider knowledge”

[neanderthal]

Oh, yeah, I'm aware of the whole Andrew Yang street vendor thing. I just have a distinct feeling that what he considers "liberal media" paid little to no attention to it as opposed to "fuck[ing] with" him because it was easier. Mostly my point was that both that and the Pelosi story make for fun articles from propagandist newspapers while the "mainstream media" mostly just ignored them because, for the vast majority of the country, they're non-stories.

That totally fits.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah to Jason, I’d be okay with index funds too, but politicians really need to cut ties from individual company stocks and their personal companies. If your stocks and businesses are just too precious for you to let go or at least step away during the time you’re in office, then maybe you shouldn’t run for public office.

This is not only directed at Pelosi and the dems, but also Trump and republicans. This should be a bi or nonpartisan thing!

Is this really a non story? Am I over reacting? Maybe. If you guys are happy with lesser of the two evil or a least worse system, great. But I can’t help but over react about this.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/us/politics/capitol-police-riot-report.amp.html

Capitol police has demonstrated that it’s possible to hold back and not be too brutal as long as leadership instruct them so... according to latest report!

So all we need now is to have capitol police patrolling our neighborhoods and regular cops on Capitol Hill then we’re all set.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Bravo President Biden! I hope he really pulls it off... :up:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/14/pentagon-biden-team-overrode-afghanistan-481556

“War in Afghanistan was never meant to be a multigenerational undertaking. We were attacked. We went to war with clear goals. We achieved those objectives. Bin laden is dead and Al Qaeda is degraded. It's time to end the forever war.”

[neanderthal]

Bernie stealing a woman's work. Again. Nowhere does he say that this was Hillary's proposal in 2016.

https://twitter.com/justicedems/status/1382033067641090048?s=19

[Crazed_Insanity]

You're so funny dude... making everything about Bernie and Hillary! ;)

Hillary is gone. Bernie likely won't ever be president because he's too old. Need to move forward dude.

BTW, did Obama ever mention that it should've been called Romneycare? That's probably what they should've called it so that Republicans would sound stupid trying to repeal Romneycare later...

Don't be so picky about giving credit. What's more important is getting things done!

[neanderthal]

If what's important is "getting things done" you wouldn't be infatuated with Bernie or AOC.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, I want things done right!

Dems are definitely the less of the 2 evils; therefore, not quite the same as republicans.

However, I don’t want things to be done for the sake of being done. There’s a broad spectrum within the dems from Manlychin to AOC...

Which is closer to the real Democratic Party?

[Jason]

1942 pages of Mo and Billi arguing about relatively small differences while the real enemy laughs like Mr. Burns

[neanderthal]

Something something good cops something something bad apples. (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/16/us-police-officers-public-officials-crowdfunding-website-data-breach?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1618554209)

Or did I mix up my metaphors.

[neanderthal]

Down ballot red State candidates probably did more to help Biden than hinder.

Link. (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/16/us/politics/democrats-down-ballot.html#click=https://t.co/3J57kjwnGn)

[neanderthal]

Is it, maybe, national pancake day?

Why yes it is, (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/guilty-plea-capitol-riot/2021/04/16/f7d5d420-9eb6-11eb-9d05-ae06f4529ece_story.html#click=https://t.co/suDdhLB59w) time for flipping!!!

[Crazed_Insanity]

1942 pages of Mo and Billi arguing about relatively small differences while the real enemy laughs like Mr. Burns

Our fight is pretty much like the fight between Pelosi and AOC. It's a pretty healthy fight between pragmatism and idealism. I don't believe Pelosi has anything against AOC's ideals and passions because she's been there and done that herself.

However, has pragmatism really been that helpful? Sure, you could laugh at Bernie and AOC for passing 0 bills, but let's look at the pragmatic side: how often are the dems a majority? How many supreme court justices have we confirmed?

Why won't the voters ever vote for the dems and give them sufficient power to truly get things done(Not comparing to Bernie and AOC but comparing to the GOP)? I can't believe majority of voting Americans are all like roofer.

Why is it so easy for AOC to raise millions of dollars, not just for her campaign, but for Texans in deep freeze?

Bernie and AOC has achieved an alternate path forward. Dems don't need corporate money in order to just hang in there in congress. Put people first and people will respond with their votes and possibly money for you.

Do things with your heart and it'll resonate with people. If all you are thinking about is pragmatism, nobody care about what you've done.

I think it took a president who had a son who served in the military to realize that America doesn't need to be in a forever war. Most other presidents just trusted the military lobbyists that forever war is the right thing to do... When your heart isn't in it, it's easy to be swayed by lobbyists to do what you think is the most pragmatic thing... What is pragmatic? Saving and protecting and improving your political career or the lives of americans? (Besides trading stocks, public office holders really should NOT make politics their life long careers... go do something else too!)

Anyway, maybe I'm celebrating too soon about ending the forever war. I'll truly celebrate when we actually pull out. Nevertheless, I do believe Biden has some heart. I kinda doubt Hillary would want to pull out. We gotta fight for women's rights in Afghanistan, right? Hey, I can be pragmatic. Let Afghans fight their own fight. We don't need to police the world, given our track record at policing.

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-ne-desantis-signs-anti-riot-bill-20210419-iltp27x5mzcbheeqvyhclhz2xq-story.html

The law, which goes into effect immediately, grants civil legal immunity to people who drive through protesters blocking a road, which Democrats argued might have protected the white nationalist who ran over and killed counter-protester Heather Heyer during the Charlottesville tumult in 2017. It also makes blocking a highway a felony offense.

“Just think about it, you’re driving home from work, and all of a sudden, you have people out there shutting down a highway, and we worked hard to make sure that didn’t happen in Florida,” DeSantis said. “They start to do that, [then] there needs to be swift penalties.”

The law also creates a broad category for misdemeanor arrest during protests, and anyone charged under that provision will be denied bail until their first court appearance. DeSantis said he wanted that to prevent people from rejoining ongoing protests.

It creates a new felony crime of “aggravated rioting” that carries a sentence of up to 15 years in prison and a new crime of “mob intimidation.”

Meanwhile, Billi and his buddies complain about the state of affairs from 2019. :rolleyes:

[neanderthal]

Meanwhile, Billi and his buddies complain about the state of affairs from 2019. :rolleyes:

We need a like button or similar. Oh wait, we kinda do have one. :up:

[Crazed_Insanity]

My ‘buddies’ are pretty hypocritical in case you didn’t know.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Oh, yeah, I'm aware of the whole Andrew Yang street vendor thing. I just have a distinct feeling that what he considers "liberal media" paid little to no attention to it as opposed to "fuck[ing] with" him because it was easier. Mostly my point was that both that and the Pelosi story make for fun articles from propagandist newspapers while the "mainstream media" mostly just ignored them because, for the vast majority of the country, they're non-stories.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/19/opinion/nyc-mayor-andrew-yang.html

Talk about a non-story... I know it's an opinion piece, but this is on the NYT, and the author thinks there should've been an Andrea Yang! Being a male is just so toxic. Yuck! Maybe Andrew should take the advice and consider a sex change?

Also on MSNBC Morning Joe:
"You and I could do a better job running NYC than @AndrewYang
. No offense to Andrew Yang"

https://twitter.com/CaseStudyQB/status/1384201831132266504?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1384201831132266504%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fmedia%2Fan drew-yang-faces-uptick-in-media-attacks-as-nyc-mayoral-candidate-continues-to-lead-in-polls

Anyone who's anti-establishment or not part of their club is painted as somebody incompetent.

Okay, then please run for office and make things right so that voters won't become so resentful and end up voting for anti-establishment candidates!

Donald Trump would never had a chance if the 'established' politicians had been doing a good job.

Granted, Trump sucked. Maybe Yang and Bernie would sucked just as bad if they're in charge..., but like Trump said, what have we got to lose given our current conditions?

What's the point of having democrats like Manlychin in office? We have the 'illusion' of a majority, but we're still GOP-lite. I guess should be pragmatic. GOP-lite is better than full on GOP, right? But hopefully Democrats can be their true selves someday...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, verdict is about to be announced? Will America blow up?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Guilty as charged!

(Whew!)

[JoshInKC]

Thank christ.
I know it's trifling, but I did not want to have to hit the streets tonight with the cold and snow.

[neanderthal]

6 white people, 4 black, 2 mixed. 6 females (2 black) 6 males (2 black.) I didn't have any inkling they'd return a guilty verdict coz it only takes 1. Glad I was wrong.

[Tom Servo]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/19/opinion/nyc-mayor-andrew-yang.html

Talk about a non-story... I know it's an opinion piece, but this is on the NYT, and the author thinks there should've been an Andrea Yang! Being a male is just so toxic. Yuck! Maybe Andrew should take the advice and consider a sex change?

Also on MSNBC Morning Joe:
"You and I could do a better job running NYC than @AndrewYang
. No offense to Andrew Yang"

https://twitter.com/CaseStudyQB/status/1384201831132266504?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1384201831132266504%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fmedia%2Fan drew-yang-faces-uptick-in-media-attacks-as-nyc-mayoral-candidate-continues-to-lead-in-polls

Anyone who's anti-establishment or not part of their club is painted as somebody incompetent.

Okay, then please run for office and make things right so that voters won't become so resentful and end up voting for anti-establishment candidates!

Donald Trump would never had a chance if the 'established' politicians had been doing a good job.

Granted, Trump sucked. Maybe Yang and Bernie would sucked just as bad if they're in charge..., but like Trump said, what have we got to lose given our current conditions?

What's the point of having democrats like Manlychin in office? We have the 'illusion' of a majority, but we're still GOP-lite. I guess should be pragmatic. GOP-lite is better than full on GOP, right? But hopefully Democrats can be their true selves someday...


Well, that's one takeaway you could get about the NY Times opinion piece. It's not the takeaway I got from it, but whatever.

However, I do appreciate you confirming my guess as to what you consider "the liberal media", and that I was correct in that they weren't reporting on the thing you said they were because it was "easier".

[Tom Servo]

6 white people, 4 black, 2 mixed. 6 females (2 black) 6 males (2 black.) I didn't have any inkling they'd return a guilty verdict coz it only takes 1. Glad I was wrong.

I saw someone describe my feeling really well on Twitter. The jury deliberating felt like when you see someone get every letter on Wheel of Fortune and then you're just sitting there terrified they're going to mispronounce it and lose everything.

Very glad they came to that conclusion and as quickly as they did. Means there wasn't a lot of hemming and hawing or staunch holdouts.

[neanderthal]

And, of course, Makhia Bryant of Columbus killed by police whom SHE had called because she was about to get jumped. She had a knife on her to defend herself, and dropped it as soon as the police got there. They still shot her 4 times.

I'm tired.

[dodint]

In case anyone was curious, I wrote this for another board.

I am not a criminal attorney in Minnesota (though I did go to law school there)...

Because all three charges stemmed from the same event they will all carry sentences, which will run concurrently. So in practical terms only the Murder 2 sentence will matter as you can presume it will be the longest.
MN sentencing guidelines, with a presumed Criminal History Score of 0, call for a range of 128-180 months (15 year max) with a presumptive sentence of 150 months (12.5 years). Anything outside of that range would be a departure and require justification from the judge. 40 years is the absolute maximum.

So....
12.5 years is standard.
10.6 years is the lowest without a departure.
15 years is the highest without a departure.
40 years is the absolute statutory maximum.

I have heard the prosecution us pushing for a departure of 15+ years but I can't verify that with a source.

Sentencing guidelines: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/court_rules/rule/sg-4/
Murder in the Second Degree statute: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19

A departure is sentencing outside of the 10.6 to 15 year range. It sounds like a big deal but it effectively means the judge has to fill out a form within 15 days and send it to the Minnesota Sentencing Guideline Commission.



If the court imposes a departure from the sentencing guidelines, the court must make findings of fact supporting the departure. The grounds for departure must be: (a) stated in the sentencing order; or (b) recorded in the departure report as provided by the sentencing guidelines commission and attached to the sentencing order required under subdivision 7. The sentencing order and any attached departure report must be filed with the commission within 15 days after sentencing.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/court_rules/cr/id/27/


So, it's a justification that needs to be on the record, but the Commission nor any other party needs to approve it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, that's one takeaway you could get about the NY Times opinion piece. It's not the takeaway I got from it, but whatever.

However, I do appreciate you confirming my guess as to what you consider "the liberal media", and that I was correct in that they weren't reporting on the thing you said they were because it was "easier".

Well, it had always been easy for msnbc to misspell his name or use the wrong photo during his presidential campaign. It easily happened multiple times during the campaign.

Anyway, it doesn’t matter. At least voters don’t care about what traditional media is saying anymore, whether liberal or conservative.

[Tom Servo]

Weird, you seem pretty concerned with it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m just annoyed by media and politicians not doing their job properly or abusing their powers...

Of course voters could easily be manipulated and become dysfunctional thru other means too , that’s how we end up with Trump.

Will yang be another Trump? I guess it’s better that we test him out at NY 1st before letting him go prime time.

[Jason]

And, of course, Makhia Bryant of Columbus killed by police whom SHE had called because she was about to get jumped. She had a knife on her to defend herself, and dropped it as soon as the police got there. They still shot her 4 times.

I'm tired.

https://youtu.be/Fpnibt9RQ2U?t=360

Body cam footage of the incident has been released.

[dodint]

Thanks Jason. That certainly tells a different story than the earlier reporting. It's weird, when you only interview family members of the deceased you tend to get biased accounts.

[Freude am Fahren]

Kinda looks like the woman in Pink is pulling her away from the woman on the ground, and looks like she could be attempting to stab the woman in pink. She certainly had something shiny in her hand when shot. Hard to tell if that is a knife from the video of a video, but likely would be seen as, given the call and movements. It kinda looks like the officer may have saved the woman in pink's life.

Now whether the woman on the ground and in pink were threats to the deceased, and she was in fact defending herself isn't something that can be learned from the video.

It certainly does say something though how quickly this video, which they must believe justifies the shooting is released vs. a video that is more damning to an officer.

[sandydandy]

Re: Chauvin. I think he’ll get 10 years. Out in 3. Seriously, 3rd degree murder? What a joke.

We can only hope for a prison shanking if he’s locked up with hardcore gang members.

[dodint]

He was convicted of Second Degree Unintentional Murder. It's really impressive that they got that much. The only thing they could have gotten higher than that is Second (Intentional) or First and it's likely the jury wouldn't have gone for that.

I'm hoping the prosecution pushed for an upward departure and he gets over 20 years. I don't think it will happen though. I'd be satisfied with 15.

Satisfied from a legal standpoint. Morally he should get the full 40.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://youtu.be/Fpnibt9RQ2U?t=360

Body cam footage of the incident has been released.

I can't tell anything from this video.

It's just crazy to be using a knife or any weapons in front of police. If you are going to self defend, don't call the police!

It's also crazy for police to shoot somebody 4 times when it's clear the perpetrator wasn't even attacking you.

My suspicion is that the office was spooked... and then 4 bullets came out.

It's tragic, but this is just not as clear cut as George Floyd case.

[neanderthal]

Thanks Jason. That certainly tells a different story than the earlier reporting. It's weird, when you only interview family members of the deceased you tend to get biased accounts.

It does indeed. It still doesn't show the need for lethal force. This is what tazers are for.

Also.


https://youtu.be/KFfH2UCfJ7E

[neanderthal]

How long have I been saying Bernie is shitty.

Here he is remixing Hillary's free college plan.

https://twitter.com/josecanyousee/status/1385003351180333057?s=19

[dodint]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ezd211wXEAIfy5O?format=png&name=900x900

That is a lethal force situation. Trying to co-opt it for a greater cause only hurts your message by diluting it.

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah I agree. At least the officer's aim was true and didn't hit the other person. That's a fuggin risky move right there.

Unfortunately a tragic outcome.

You could spend hours pouring over the footage and analysing every fine detail, but to me there was nothing good that could have come from that scenario if the officer didn't fire. It's not that someone had to die, but I'm not a forensic analyst, nor am I a cop, so I couldn't authoritatively make a judgement.

To me this isn't racial. Just a shitty situation.

[Crazed_Insanity]

How long have I been saying Bernie is shitty.

Here he is remixing Hillary's free college plan.

https://twitter.com/josecanyousee/status/1385003351180333057?s=19

If Abraham Lincoln failed to free slavery... and then later on another president freed the slaves... this subsequent president would be a shitty person for stealing Lincoln’s idea to free slaves?

Also, do you think Obama is shitty for stealing from Romneycare?

Give me a break.

Lastly, given Bernie’s track record, you don’t have to worry about him implementing Hillary’s idea. Some other shittier person will probably end up stealing the idea from Hillary.

[FaultyMario]

He was convicted of Second Degree Unintentional Murder. It's really impressive that they got that much. The only thing they could have gotten higher than that is Second (Intentional) or First and it's likely the jury wouldn't have gone for that.

I'm hoping the prosecution pushed for an upward departure and he gets over 20 years. I don't think it will happen though. I'd be satisfied with 15.

Satisfied from a legal standpoint. Morally he should get the full 40.

Can the fact that he is going to be serving three sentences be used as justification for upward departure?

[dodint]

Minnesota is kind of unique in that the jury actually had to render verdict on all three charges. In most states once they find you guilty of the most serious concurrent charge they skip the rest. I do not think that will be a factor in sentencing. Each charge will get its own sentence.

We are moving into a phase where the judge has great latitude. The prosecution will make a recommendation, and there will be a sentencing hearing in 8 weeks when both sides get to speak, along with victim impact statements where Floyd's family will get to say their piece. But really it comes down to the judge and what he thinks is appropriate.

I am thinking he gets the 15. I would be shocked if it were more than 20. The prosecutors office works very closely with the police department and it would really chill that relationship if they went out of their way to extend the sentence beyond the statutory recommendation. The judge has no such working relationship though and he is the one that counts. We'll see in 8 weeks.

[Rare White Ape]

Fiddeen years is still a bloody long time, assuming he even does the whole lot.

Remember the guy probably thought he was an untouchable police officer that morning when he got out of bed. He would have had no idea that he'd be killing someone that day, committing an act that lands him in gaol and brings down his world.

You would hope that other cops see it as a deterrent for being equally callous while on the job.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Personally, I get the feeling that when police either use too much or too little force is all due to attitude of its leadership. Capitol police could do nothing if leadership doesn't give them permission and the proper resources... Derek Chauvin could also not do that if he never had implicit permission to apprehend people that way...

I think next step is to make leadership more accountable.

A teller can steal some cash and goto jail, but a banker who stole millions only has to resign to get off the hook, while getting the bonuses and retirement benefits.

We need to hold leadership with more accountability too.

For police chiefs who don't want to go to jail, they better train and discipline their folks properly.

I get the feeling that most cops on the streets are now stuck in between a rock and a hard place... constantly having to choose between whether to be careful and save their own butts or not...

For the racist cops, I fear that this verdict might enrage them and end up acting more inappropriately... pretty sure those types are not simply going to just repent of their sins and change because of one verdict. The war has just begun. At least BLM has won this battle.

[side note to YW] US government is clearly pretty lame at times, but at least we still have some tools against it. Historically american people have been using it to fight to gain more rights. It'd be pretty much impossible for any of the citizens in China to win any battles against the tyrannical CCP. If you dissent, you'd disappear. Even if you're a billionaire!

[neanderthal]

Fiddeen years is still a bloody long time, assuming he even does the whole lot.

Remember the guy probably thought he was an untouchable police officer that morning when he got out of bed. He would have had no idea that he'd be killing someone that day, committing an act that lands him in gaol and brings down his world.

You would hope that other cops see it as a deterrent for being equally callous while on the job.

George Floyd didn't wake up thinking he'd be dead too.
And Chauvin heard him say he can't breathe and heard the onlookers saying he can't breathe or you're killing him, and kept his knee on his neck. Fuck Chauvin. I hope the judge throws the entire fucking library at him.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Can’t disagree with Neanderthal on this one!

I wonder if this dick chauvinistic cop felt any remorse. I couldn’t tell with his lack of facial expressions while the verdict was being read...

Anyway, even if you were to execute him, it doesn’t end the BLM movement. This is only the beginning. Will racist cops tone down now? Or will they get worse?

[TheBenior]

It does indeed. It still doesn't show the need for lethal force. This is what tazers are for.

Yes it does.

First cartridge taser deployment effectiveness is around 50% or less in practice (33% in LA, where they actually track trigger pulls in official data). Tasers are notably less effective when people are moving quickly, when people have loose/heavy clothing, and obese people. 2 of those 3 factors were in play here.

[Dicknose]

I hope the judge throws the entire fucking library at him.

I think any reasonable sentance inside the guidelines is enough.
It would serve justice and deterrent.
I actually worry that an extreme sentence could have a negative effect, making police feel like victims. The best result is for police officers to think, yeah that was wrong I should make sure that doesnt happen on my watch. But it could easily become a focus on it being outrageous.
You want to bend, not break.
(well unless you really do want to break and rebuild from scratch)

[Dicknose]

I think next step is to make leadership more accountable.


Agreed.
This doesnt happen unless its supported from above, even if its just in the form of ignoring it.

Id be kicking out people in the direct chain of command above him. They are also responsible for the actions of those below them.


On a related note - Australia had a big problem with corrupt cops a few years back. In particular some areas of Sydney cops were taking bribes and planting evidence. This was seen by them as ok, because they were only doing this to balance the system, earn the money they deserved etc. Newer recruits would get "turned" by the more seniors. They ended up having to do a big cleanout and yes quite a few went to gaol. It required new leadership to make sure the whole force had the right attitude.
It seems to me that this is needed in much of the US police. But its much much harder as your police forces are so localised. We have state based and few states!
Maybe state governors need to come out and take responsibility, force change for their states.

[neanderthal]

Yes it does.

First cartridge taser deployment effectiveness is around 50% or less in practice (33% in LA, where they actually track trigger pulls in official data). Tasers are notably less effective when people are moving quickly, when people have loose/heavy clothing, and obese people. 2 of those 3 factors were in play here.

I'll beg to differ.
Well, if he'd tackled her, for instance, there'd be one less dead girl and one girl with a knife wound, which is a far better outcome.

[neanderthal]

I think any reasonable sentance inside the guidelines is enough.
It would serve justice and deterrent.
I actually worry that an extreme sentence could have a negative effect, making police feel like victims. The best result is for police officers to think, yeah that was wrong I should make sure that doesnt happen on my watch. But it could easily become a focus on it being outrageous.
You want to bend, not break.
(well unless you really do want to break and rebuild from scratch)

Sentencing him to whatever the guidelines say doesn't change mindsets, IMO. It just means the next one to do this will be more careful to avoid cameras, keep his knee on them that long and so on. Throwing the entire library at him sets the precedent that you need to go there with a completely different mindset and your "qualified immunity" that you go into situations like this, thinking it may protect you, may not be a thing. Throwing the library at him is for his callousness; dude was restrained, prone, wedged against the vehicle. And 3 other officers were there.

That knee on his neck for that long was far and above what the situation called for. To me, at that point it was malice. And that's why I want the max!!

[neanderthal]

Agreed.
This doesnt happen unless its supported from above, even if its just in the form of ignoring it.

Id be kicking out people in the direct chain of command above him. They are also responsible for the actions of those below them.


On a related note - Australia had a big problem with corrupt cops a few years back. In particular some areas of Sydney cops were taking bribes and planting evidence. This was seen by them as ok, because they were only doing this to balance the system, earn the money they deserved etc. Newer recruits would get "turned" by the more seniors. They ended up having to do a big cleanout and yes quite a few went to gaol. It required new leadership to make sure the whole force had the right attitude.
It seems to me that this is needed in much of the US police. But its much much harder as your police forces are so localised. We have state based and few states!
Maybe state governors need to come out and take responsibility, force change for their states.

Difficult to do as you say, as there are so many states and so many agencies within each of those states.

Then the entire thing is also politicised, with a very "law and order" conservative movement/ politicians conveniently looking away when it's Ammon Bundy or when it's Kyle Rittenhouse, donating to his gofundme with messages saying "we support you, you did nothing wrong," etc.

To me, it starts with some kind of a national registry for police. You can't fuck up here, resign real quick and pop up over there. That's some next level bullshit.
Then, you can't have judgements against police be paid by the city, when those police don't even live in that city for the most part. (That's how it is in many of the big cities. Lot of LAPD, LA sheriff, CHP, etc live in Santa Clarita or Simi Valley for instance. One of the reasons the defense in the Rodney King trial successfully moved the case from LA to Simi, and had an entire jury find the policemen not guilty. Despite the very clear evidence.) I'm a firm advocate for taking judgements like that out of the police pension fund or something like that. Makes them think twice before they do wild shit, but most importantly, it'll have all the so called good cops weeding out the bad cops real fast. Real fucking fast.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I personally don't think it's a good idea to always make cops on the street have to think twice. Split second life and death situation cannot afford too much thinking twice...

There will be accidental killings... or controversial killings(like that Columbus girl case)..., but George Floyd's case was obviously intentional. The worse kind.

Considering how dangerous it is to be a cop in the US, I'm willing to be more forgiving if cops screwed up accidentally or in some messy/controversial situations. We can't expect cops to never make mistakes.

However, BLM movement did not start because of police honest mistakes. There are serious police corruption issues. Corruption stems from the top.

So what if you set up a registry for bad cops? If a police chief were a racist, he'll probably intentionally look at that registry and hire all of them from that registry. If we don't hold the leadership accountable as if only cops on the streets can be racist..., BLM movement probably will never end.

[Dicknose]

That knee on his neck for that long was far and above what the situation called for. To me, at that point it was malice. And that's why I want the max!!

The charge and the verdict indicate malice and intent.
The sentencing doesnt need any extra because of that.

[Dicknose]

I'll beg to differ.
Well, if he'd tackled her, for instance, there'd be one less dead girl and one girl with a knife wound, which is a far better outcome.

Its tricky, maybe thought the threat was too immediate. Would the tackle be in time or put the knife closer to the potential victim.
Im not even sure if cops are trained to tackle people in that sort of situation. You arent meant to put yourself at risk. Talk, taser, gun would be the options.

This one is not clean cut, it was definitely a judgement call to what looked like an immediate threat.
It probably was the wrong call, but there are so many buts, whatifs etc that it can be seen that the choice to shoot was at least a honest decision to do what was best.

[neanderthal]

Headline speaks for itself. (https://www.yahoo.com/news/over-400-asian-yorkers-sign-221649280.html)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow!

A whopping 403 Neanderthal Asians are against Andrew yang! This mayoral race leader’s campaign is likely doomed! 403 Asians against you? Dude, you screwed Andrew!

[neanderthal]

My niece, 16, said don't worry about 2022. "We'll be voting"

She's sixteen. She founded and chairs the Black students network at her school in Southern California.

The link (https://twitter.com/CharlotteAlter/status/1385616220091817990?s=19) indicates that might be very true. I hope it is because then Republicans are fucked.

They made their bed, aligning with the former guy and racists and embracing a scorched earth policy. May these fleas be a forget pox upon them.

[Jason]

The kids are gonna be alright :up:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Republicans had been fucked for a while in CA, unfortunately CA is not representative of the rest of the country.

Did your niece indicate that she also hates the progressives as you do? Bernie and AOC and Andrew are as bad as the republicans?

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/22/messonnier-reassigned-covid-task-force-484307?cid=apn

Not sure whether to post this here or in the pandemic thread, but I think the story is probably more political?

Nancy Messonnier, top respiratory expert at CDC who clashed with Trump and therefore silenced by the WH. She is supposed to be back in the spot light now that Biden is in charge..., but I guess she clashed with Biden too so she shall remain silenced.

Yes, Biden is obviously very different from Trump in a lot of ways, but in this case, they’re kinda the same. Political agendas shall Trump over scientific experts.

Of course, at least situation in the US is improving under Biden. I have to give Biden credit for that. Still, it’d be nice if leadership would heed the warnings from expert when implementing policies.

[neanderthal]

You can't make it up.

Kavanaugh wrote the opinion that said the consequences of what did as a juvenile should follow you the rest of your life without the possibility of a pardon. Yes. Really!!!

3713

[Crazed_Insanity]

So essentially our conservative Supreme Court sides with the cancel culture. So apparently conservatives have no problems with being woke.

Two sides are in agreement after all. See, I told you they are the same. :p

[George]

3713

I can almost see that. :lol:

https://d33ljpvc0tflz5.cloudfront.net/dims3/MMH/739f7b7/2147483647/strip/true/crop/725x406+0+38/resize/728x408!/quality/75/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fd26ua9paks4zq.cloudfront.net%2F b3%2F2a%2F121fc6e849e39c8be242549ebdc7%2Fimage-senior-caucasian-man-examining-stamp-with-magnifying-glass-508485251.jpg

[neanderthal]

Biden just raised the minimum wage to $15/ hr.

For all federal contractors. :facepalm.


But the childcare thing, which looks like it may happen, is HUUUUUUUGE. I've been saying it's more important than college debt for a while now.

[Rare White Ape]

Biden just raised the minimum wage to $15/ hr.

For all federal contractors. :facepalm.

Gotta start somewhere

[neanderthal]

Biden just raised the minimum wage to $15/ hr.

For all federal contractors. :facepalm.


But the childcare thing, which looks like it may happen, is HUUUUUUUGE. I've been saying it's more important than college debt for a while now.

It's quite extensive. (https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/04/28/politics/american-families-plan/index.html?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=16196262066701&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2021%2F04%2F2 8%2Fpolitics%2Famerican-families-plan%2Findex.html)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I believe the children are our future... :sing:

I can't imagine which corporate lobbyist is lobbying for our children in the Biden Admin... so this must be from Biden's own heart? If so, I give him a :up:!

[neanderthal]

Not that anyone of us really doubted that Gaetz was scum. Apparently, there is documentation (https://www.thedailybeast.com/joel-greenberg-letter-written-for-roger-stone-says-matt-gaetz-paid-for-sex-with-minor?source=articles&via=rss) and potentially, a third witness; the one who was supposed to be trying to secure a pardon for Greenberg. The one who himself was pardoned by the previous occupant of 1600 Pennyslvania.

[neanderthal]

Some progressives are finally coming around (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1265089?__twitter_impression=true) to the fact that Biden is doing a good job. (I'm giving Madam Vice President all the credit for the broad outlines of the For The People Act)


Anyway, the question now is what are the progressives doing now to ensure we maintain our limited control of the house and senate, given their past burn all bridges attitudes.

The real seeming inability to grasp that we have a narrow window and lead in the Senate (though Sinema and Manchin are who give us the lead, conservative as they are!) through which to enact legislation.

Are they going to run candidates against Democrats or run candidates against Republicans. Are they going to join Democrats (we've "lost" seats in the census!) in enduring we secure a victory in the mid terms. Are they going to really amp up the get out the vote efforts in what is now an even more crucial election?

I'm skeptical, because reasons. One of them being someone who posts here constantly, berating Democrats but never with that same fire for Republicans.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think that’s an unrealistic expectation you are having for progressives.

That’s like asking Tea Party people not to steal GOP votes! Run only against democrats!

Seriously, will any blue districts vote for a tea party candidate over the lamest dem? Not likely.

We can’t blame the existence of tea party on dems. It’s existence is due to GOP not being extreme right enough.

Likewise, progressives exist not because of republicans, but because dems are not going left enough.

However, if progressives continue to fight for the working class successfully , who knows, we might be able to win some blue collar conservatives over. Also perhaps some Texans would now appreciate some of AOCs donations and not want to return her money like some democrats. ;)

When Biden does a good job, credit will be given to where it is due. Progressives don’t just blindly hate dems okay?

[neanderthal]

I wonder how many times this (https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/world-forest-workers-discover-peculiar-211222325.html) has come up in them red states with large black populations.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don’t get it.

[JSGeneral]

It's not rocket science.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Rocket science would be easier than connecting the dots between snake eggs in turtle shell to black people in red states... obviously I’m not getting something...

[neanderthal]

Rocket science would be easier than connecting the dots between snake eggs in turtle shell to black people in red states... obviously I’m not getting something...

Yahoo didn't link the right story. (https://news.yahoo.com/georgia-deputy-says-d-charge-201000340.html)

A cop admitted that he'd try to charge black people with felonies so they couldn't vote.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ha! No wonder... I was wondering what sub cultural reference I’m missing...?

Then what the heck was JSG talking about? He sounded like he knew how the snake eggs in turtle shell are related to black people in Alabama! :p

Anyway, regarding the correct article, we still have rule of law right? Cops can kill black people but can’t really slap on bogus charges unless they specifically frame the guy? The story did say that cop was bragging and his claim just wasn’t true.

Of course I’m sure our justice system could accidentally convict the wrong guy, but I can’t imagine such miscarriages of Justice can be so wide spread that would alter election results?

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/sen-coons-vs-the-covid-vaccine-thieves-11619217616

It is so interesting that the democratic party has so many senators who are friends with the republicans. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate them helping the dems gain majority in the senate, but 1st it was ManlyChin, now it's senator Coonies...

"Once released, trade secrets on biologics are gone for good. Handing China the IP for the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines would allow it to recreate the technology for other diseases."

Holy shit! How scary it would be for the Chinese or other foreign nations to figure out ways to cure other diseases?!?!? OMG!!!

President Biden, I know you have a heart. Do the right thing.

[Dicknose]

Of course I’m sure our justice system could accidentally convict the wrong guy, but I can’t imagine such miscarriages of Justice can be so wide spread that would alter election results?
If you thought being a registered voter could make you a target for random stops by cops...

[Crazed_Insanity]

How does a cop know if you registered or not? Don’t be so paranoid. Targeting you for being black, sure, but targeting you just to make sure you can’t vote sounds like a stretch.

[neanderthal]

How does a cop know if you registered or not? Don’t be so paranoid. Targeting you for being black, sure, but targeting you just to make sure you can’t vote sounds like a stretch.

Maybe read the fucking story, coz thats exactly what he copped to.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The story specifically said the racist cop’s story is bogus.

Cop alone cannot pin a felony charge on a guy. Our criminal Justice system is biased against black people, legislations that prevent voting rights of felons and voter ID requirements are directed against black people, but a lone cop cannot do this all by himself!

Anyway, my main point was that racism isn’t just caused by white supremacists. Even if we could remove them all, our ‘system’ is still biased against black lives.

[Rare White Ape]

Colombians are being killed by police because they’re protesting about…

*checks notes*

Tax reform.

Cool and normal.

[FaultyMario]

Mexicans are being killed because…

*checks notes*

Poor mass transit infrastructure.

Cool and normal.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That’s freaky. I’m assuming shoddy construction?

[neanderthal]

If there is a scarcity of workers, you should pay more, right? That's free market capitalism, no? Wrong. (https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/worker-shortages-montana-210751254.html)

[FaultyMario]

That’s freaky. I’m assuming shoddy construction?

A picture is worth a thousand words and all that...


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0lTGF1WEAEs5zc.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow! What the heck is wrong with New Zealand?!?!?!

[Rare White Ape]

Wow! What the heck is wrong with New Zealand?!?!?!

They sound like Australians that are melting.

[Rikadyn]

NZ is the least expected to be corrupt and they are better than expected...