Politics

[Crazed_Insanity]

Last time I went to NZ, Auckland and Christchurch, with an ex-girlfriend on a mission trip actually. Yeah, majority of New Nealanders are not Christian anymore...

Anyway, love that place. I really like that place a lot. No wonder Lord of the Ring was filmed there! ;)

However, besides missing Christian population, another thing I noticed is that it's missing the middle age working population. Particularly in Christchurch. Most people there are either young school aged... or old retired aged folks. I guess those who tend to be working and 'corruptible' find it a boring place for them to work! :D

[Dicknose]

A picture is worth a thousand words and all that...

Except when its confusing what its trying to show...

[Dicknose]

I noticed is that it's missing the middle age working population. Particularly in Christchurch. Most people there are either young school aged... or old retired aged folks. I guess those who tend to be working and 'corruptible' find it a boring place for them to work! :D

That could be because you mostly saw customer facing min wage jobs...

[Yw-slayer]

Talk about a lack of perspective...

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think my perspective was pretty accurate, comparing to actual data, there is a dip in the age group from college grad to the 40 yr olds… if it weren’t for the increase in immigrant Asians and Arabs, the problem would be worse?

Anyway, my original ‘perspective’ was actually from college students over there… they were saying there’s lack of job opportunities… but that was around 2005…

And the chart linked below is 2013 data… so maybe things have changed?

https://www.stats.govt.nz/infographics/major-ethnic-groups-in-new-zealand

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/sen-coons-vs-the-covid-vaccine-thieves-11619217616

It is so interesting that the democratic party has so many senators who are friends with the republicans. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate them helping the dems gain majority in the senate, but 1st it was ManlyChin, now it's senator Coonies...

"Once released, trade secrets on biologics are gone for good. Handing China the IP for the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines would allow it to recreate the technology for other diseases."

Holy shit! How scary it would be for the Chinese or other foreign nations to figure out ways to cure other diseases?!?!? OMG!!!

President Biden, I know you have a heart. Do the right thing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/05/05/biden-waives-vaccine-patents/

Wow. President saw my post? ;)

Or perhaps his heart hasn’t been bought and paid for by the big corporate lobbyists?

I’m feeling all hopeful now… :)

[neanderthal]

I keep saying Representative Lauren Underwood does the work!!! (https://twitter.com/RepUnderwood/status/1389723335068639232?s=19) unlike AOC, the squad, and Bernie.

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.businessinsider.com/proud-boys-received-generous-donations-from-chinese-americans-report-2021-5

"PROUD BOYS RECEIVED GENEROUS DONATIONS FROM ASIAN-AMERICANS."

Or in other words, "How to cut off your nose to spite your face", by Billi's buddies.

I can't say that I am surprised, given how moronic his HK pals were and are over here.

[neanderthal]

https://www.businessinsider.com/proud-boys-received-generous-donations-from-chinese-americans-report-2021-5

"PROUD BOYS RECEIVED GENEROUS DONATIONS FROM ASIAN-AMERICANS."

Or in other words, "How to cut off your nose to spite your face", by Billi's buddies.

I can't say that I am surprised, given how moronic his HK pals were and are over here.


Several donors who spoke to USA Today said they had sent money to the Proud Boys because they supported Former President Donald Trump, ...

Nuff said.


The donors also told the paper they felt the Proud Boys were protecting the country from antifa and the Black Lives Matter protesters.

Anti blackness everywhere.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Please let’s not racialize this…

There are definitely conservative Asians, but considering they only raised $80k and they could only muster up 400 Asian signatures against Andrew yang, I can’t believe most Asians are Trump supporters. If that’s the ‘most’ asian Americans can do, that’s pretty pathetic! :p

Lastly, Asian Americans getting beat up is on the rise, we don’t need to give people anymore excuses to beat up old asians.

I think it’s also worth noting that if you look at captured videos of Asian hate, it’s not the white supremacists who are beating up old and weak Asians on the streets…

We don’t need racial identity politics please. Pathetic scums come in all skin colors.

[Yw-slayer]

See how you and your friends reap what you sow?

[Yw-slayer]

HAY GUYZ did you hear about flashbangs being thrown into a mosque in Palestine?

Or maybe you didn't, because on the CNN homepage as accessed from Asia you need to scroll down 4 times to find an article which says "At least 100 injured in second night of clashes, Palestinian Red Crescent says".

That article is also below "Kids taking governments to court over climate change". Handily it is just above "Chinese policy makes uyghurs feel like prisoners in their own home", which in turn is above "Obama dog dies" and which in turn is above "Blast near girls' school kills over 50" (Afghanistan) and Times Square shooting.

Viewing the page via vpn to LA is even funnier in irs own way. Top two article are china-blaming stuff about the rocket debris. The Uyghur article is given its own section and a picture although it is quite far down below a lot of shot about mother's day and Elon Musk on SNL. To find the bits on Palestine and Afghanistan you need to go waaaaaaaaaaaay down to the World section even though for some reason the other anti-China stuff is much further up in its own section.

Is truly terrifies me that there are people out there (presumably Billi and his friends) who still think that this sruff is objective fair no agenda straight reporting etc.

[Rare White Ape]

Top two article are china-blaming stuff about the rocket debris.

What would Boeing do?

[Yw-slayer]

What would Boeing do?

Bruce Willis, even.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, objective we need to be.

China is blame worthy, likewise the US.

Similarly with our 2 major parties. Blaming the other side doesn’t make yourself more righteous.

BTW, CNN’s main strategy was to blame trump for ratings, and nowadays rating has been dropping steadily without Trump to blame… people used to tune it to see what trump fucked up, but now there’s no more need.

Don’t need to pay too much attention to a single US media. We are like Fox News of the world!

Now I’m sure chinese news are the most objective in the world. Just stay tuned to them!

[Crazed_Insanity]

What would Boeing do?

Boeing doesn’t even have any rocket, let alone debris up there. That part of the company split up to form ULA.

[FaultyMario]

Minnesota is kind of unique in that the jury actually had to render verdict on all three charges. In most states once they find you guilty of the most serious concurrent charge they skip the rest. I do not think that will be a factor in sentencing. Each charge will get its own sentence.

If he is found guilty on the new federal charges the DOJ has recently filed, does he get to serve his MN sentence first and then is turned over to federal corrections?

[neanderthal]

Billi's hero being completely wrong, (https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1391897869137887234?s=19) like billi usually is, as usual.

[neanderthal]

Work being done (https://twitter.com/camiloreports/status/1391866074724016133?s=19) while some people complain about what can't be done because of the thin lead in the Senate.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Billi's hero being completely wrong, (https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1391897869137887234?s=19) like billi usually is, as usual.

I don’t know how anyone can pick sides in the Middle East conflict; however, I most certainly would not stand on the opposite side of Israel.

You can mess with Jews at your own risk. I’m not gonna do that. I also won’t help Jews terrorize their neighbors too.

If I were the president of the USA, I would let go and let God. Only intervene if there’s another genocide going on.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Work being done (https://twitter.com/camiloreports/status/1391866074724016133?s=19) while some people complain about what can't be done because of the thin lead in the Senate.

That’s good. Let’s celebrate when we empty that concentration camp.

[Rare White Ape]

Work being done (https://twitter.com/camiloreports/status/1391866074724016133?s=19) while some people complain about what can't be done because of the thin lead in the Senate.

Where are the children being released to?

[neanderthal]

Where are the children being released to?

It's a little complicated.

The short and the long is that Trump et al basically had them in gulags. And would lose track of them. Or their parents if they happened to come with their parents.
And progressives were shitting on Biden because he didn't flip a switch and magically get them all reunited with their parents or in proper care immediately after he was inaugurated. And the numbers of kids in those camps was still high.

Well it was because more sanitary and hygienic facilities were being constructed. With social workers, social services, mental health counselling, access to communications with their family via phone and or skype, modern medical and educational facilities etc.

Are they in those new facilities. Yes. And no. Some of them are. Many of those whose family cannot yet be located are the ones there. Maybe they crossed the border alone and have no family. Once their health and stability are established, if their family is available to take care of them they are released to their family. If they don't have family or family can't be reached they are placed in group homes. But the gist of it is that once they are medically cleared (we are in a pandemic after all) the administration is getting them out of the awful Trumpian facilities into facilities that are more like a secure holiday camp, and trying to quickly reunite them with their family.
That's how it's supposed to work anyway. The reality is they are mostly in much more sanitary camps, with the requisite social services, medical, language, communications etc.

The majority of those who are left in the Dickensian Trump facilities are those who haven't been medically cleared yet. And there's still close to 1000 adults in the big facility in Donna Texas.

[Yw-slayer]

Billi's hero being completely wrong, (https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1391897869137887234?s=19) like billi usually is, as usual.

Man, I unfortunately clicked View Post. One can only speculate why suddenly MR. BLACK/WHITE RIGHT/WRONG is extremely reluctant to take a stance on this issue. A cynic might suggest that it's enabling behaviour...

[JoshInKC]

... and The Onion drops the mic (https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1391867466951835650)

[Yw-slayer]

Sick Burn.

[Rare White Ape]

Ooooooh that is a sick burn. Hits reasonably close to home for me as one of my best mates was in the NZ army and had to kill a 15-year-old in Timor Leste, otherwise said 15-year-old would have shot him at point blank with an AK.

That, and the Onion article, both help remind you that war is neither fun or glorious, despite what Hollywood or video games tell you.

An yeah I do realise that the Onion is satire, which is the point of the website. Just thought I'd note it in case anyone missed what I was saying.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Man, I unfortunately clicked View Post. One can only speculate why suddenly MR. BLACK/WHITE RIGHT/WRONG is extremely reluctant to take a stance on this issue. A cynic might suggest that it's enabling behaviour...
You’re not that unfortunate, you click view post all the time! Resistance is futile… :p

It’s very easy to pick a side and choose to stand with Israel based on my faith. However, I also cannot in good faith enable Jews to do evil…

When people fight a war, what’s good and what’s evil? Who’s right and who’s wrong? It’ll be difficult even for Billi to figure out.

My preference is to use it as last resort and keep it as short as possible.

Just glad Biden is pulling out of Afghanistan. President Hillary likely would not. Wonder if Neanderthal still prefers Hillary?

Anyway, I’m beginning to like Biden more and more. He’s no Bernie, but he’s also not Hillary.

Btw YW, Biden isn’t as friendly with China either. What will you do now? You gonna call him buddy of Trump too?

[FaultyMario]

Ok i get it, Hamas is evil, they do henious attacks and then shield behind innocents. Pure evil.

Imma let you finish but, Israel boasts of having THE BEST intelligence services in the world, they sell their intervention equipment and training to many nations, they even taunt others with their autonomous man-killing machines.

if that's is so, why is it that whenever they have to extract retribution on their enemies they go and kill full families, children and all. Don't they have THE BEST INTELLIGENCE, can't they pin point the exact location of the perps?

two options: either they're not as good spies as they say they are, or they're a fucking sadist State.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What would be the point of picking which side is the lesser of 2 evils during a war?

If the attack only killed adult soldiers and left children as orphans, you’d be less upset?

Or anytime when your enemies using innocent human shields, then you can’t do anything? Is that the rules of war? If we all just use innocent human shields, we’d have world peace?

Jews are pretty ruthless or determined... Remember Abraham was even willing to kill his one and only son too! Maybe that’s why lots of folks hate Jews, but seriously, if you don’t believe in biblical history, at least look at modern history. You will not end well if you mess with Jews too much. My advice is, don’t stand against them at least. It’s for your own benefit.

If all mexicans were once round up in concentration camps waiting to be exterminated..., then maybe Mexico could become a sadist state as well? Similarly, if my family were wiped out senselessly by Israel, maybe I would ignore my own warning and join HAMAS too? I'd like to think that I'm smarter than that, but who knows... hatred is a powerful emotion.

Let's also not forget countless 'innocent families' in Japan murdered by the USA during WWII. But let's also not forget USA didn't invite them to come to Pearl Harbor... Can we really cry foul like that? 'Hey, I only attacked your military bases, why did you kill our civilians so senselessly?'

War sucks. It's pointless to make a judgement only on one side.

[FaultyMario]

:rolleyes:

[neanderthal]

Force/ violence is only ever "acceptable" when it's employed by the state. Chew on that for a minute.
Let the oppressed and downtrodden use force or violence to defend/ express themselves and suddenly the language and perception of the force changes.

This is why police violence against black/ brown/ poor is condoned/ accepted, yet when those same groups condemn police violence in very public and often violent ways (they usually start peacefully!) those demonstrations are labeled as violent.

The same people who think nothing of the state beating, water hosing, tear gassing, etc peaceful protestors, loudly bewail the destruction of glass, doors, lamp posts etc.

@FaultyMario laid it out.

And billi doth protest.

[neanderthal]

Anyway, another piece on billi's new fave. (https://www.teenvogue.com/story/andrew-yang-nyc-mayor-why/amp?__twitter_impression=true)

[neanderthal]

... and The Onion drops the mic (https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1391867466951835650)

Gut wrenching in it's accuracy.

Satire shouldn't be this close to the truth.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Force/ violence is only ever "acceptable" when it's employed by the state. Chew on that for a minute.
Let the oppressed and downtrodden use force or violence to defend/ express themselves and suddenly the language and perception of the force changes.

This is why police violence against black/ brown/ poor is condoned/ accepted, yet when those same groups condemn police violence in very public and often violent ways (they usually start peacefully!) those demonstrations are labeled as violent.

The same people who think nothing of the state beating, water hosing, tear gassing, etc peaceful protestors, loudly bewail the destruction of glass, doors, lamp posts etc.

@FaultyMario laid it out.

And billi doth protest.

Unless we're talking about the Force from Star Wars, I personally don't believe it's ever acceptable. At least not according to my faith. I ought to just turn the other cheek.

Police brutality shouldn't be acceptable. Protesters rioting shouldn't be acceptable. But such forces happen. What can you do? Once that happens, it will be difficult to pick a side.

Should CCP crack down hard on HK protesters who just want democracy? Should HK protesters destroy HK in the name of democracy?
Should the police really kneel on a suspect's when it's clear there's no more threat? Should we really just defund all police and allow for anarchy?

How about this... if CCP forcibly takes over Taiwan..., should US intervene militarily? Although I do still have family in Taiwan, if I were the president of the US, I would not enter into a war with China for that. Chinese people need to settle their own issues. US is unfit to be the police of the world.

Only reason for military intervention would be if we discover genocide... then in the name of morality, we probably should lend a helping hand. No need to coexist with another group like Nazi. Otherwise, we ought to just let people fight it out themselves... if it's territory that they're disputing. I'd draw the line at extermination of a group of people just because they're that group of people. If nations wish to fight to draw their own lines, let them.

[Rare White Ape]

Gut wrenching in it's accuracy.

Satire shouldn't be this close to the truth.

The truth shouldn’t be this close to satire.

[Yw-slayer]

Lol now Billi says war sucks and pointless to make judgment on one side. I didn't see that attitude in 2019 when his fascist black-clad buddies waged war under the banner of "FREEDOM DEMOCRACY SAVE US TRUMP AND POMPEO".

[Crazed_Insanity]

Black clad lives matter dude! Defund the CCP!

Seriously, people need to fight their own revolutionary wars. Whether it’s Tibet, HK, or Taiwan. US may secretly help, but can’t expect Americans to fight your revolutionary war…

BTW, I have seen videos of HK protesters beating up pro-CCP bystander…, I most certainly didn’t agree with that. I believe in peaceful protests, like Dr. king or Gandhi. I believe that’s more effective than bullets or rockets.

[Crazed_Insanity]

:rolleyes:

Just saw a Trevor Noah clip on YouTube about this conflict and I think he used an analogy that probably accurately described how you felt?

He was saying the conflict is like a conflict between a little bro against his big bro… naturally Israel being more powerful would be the big bro. Although the little brother is annoying the shit out of you, but do you really need to retaliate by beating the shit out of you weak little brother? that seemed cruel!

Yeah, pretty fitting analogy. Israel really shouldn’t respond so harshly…

However, typically after such ass kick, little bros would learn not to mess around anymore…, but I’m not sure in this case the little bro will ever learn nor will the big bro ever take it easy…

So it’s probably best to just let their parent deal with them. To me, God would be their parent. We should stay out.

[JoshInKC]

However, typically after such ass kick, little bros would learn not to mess around anymore…, but I’m not sure in this case the little bro will ever learn nor will the big bro ever take it easy…

So it’s probably best to just let their parent deal with them. To me, God would be their parent. We should stay out.
This is clearly a great answer to most problems - "Well, germany is really killing the hell out of those those jews, and the french, and the polish, I sure hope god deals with it soon." "Wow, the United states is doing an impressive genocide against those natives - the US must be god's special angels or he would have stopped it by now."

[Crazed_Insanity]

In a previous post, I did say that intervention ought to be last resort... if it becomes clear that there's a genocide or something clearly immoral.

Did Jews ever threaten to wipe out Palestinians off of the earth? Or threaten to kill all Arabs? I thought it's usually the other way around? That's why we intervened to help Jews when they were at risk..., but now we over-helped them. They have became more powerful...

Just look at American history at our 'interventions' around the world. Even during WWII when we defeated that Nazis and the Japanese, that war seemed justifiable, but was it really that righteous of us to drop atomic bombs on innocent people? I'm not so sure... not to mention our other failed BS forever interventions around the world. Clearly majority of those were not very good answers. Not for the people we're trying to help nor was it good for the american people.

I'd like to hear greater answers if you have any. What would you do if you were commander-in-chief?

With regard to stopping American killing american indians... who's going to stop that? Canadians? Mexicans? Russians? Chinese? If you wish to intervene and stop that, I certainly won't stop you. Don't pin that on me. In order to play God, you have to have some power to play. Even when you do have the power, often times you'd end up making it worse. That's my point.

Actual wars will never yield good answers, let alone great ones. Actually, I do like the Cold War, that was good for the US economy and we had no casualties, but that was still pretty risky and scary at the time... shit could've gone wrong and we'll all end up dead...

[Jason]

I will always fall back on Uncle Ben when it comes to things like this, "With great power there must also come great responsibility". Israel has outsized economic, governmental, and military power when it comes to this “conflict”. Hamas aren’t exactly “good guys” by any stretch, but Israel needs to be the one acting responsibly. If a kid comes up to you and kicks you in the shin because you took their candy, your reaction shouldn’t be to chop their legs off. You cold have avoided being kicked if you treated the kid better in the first place.

[JoshInKC]

Billi, what I was saying is that putting things like wars and conflicts "in god's hands" is a really convenient and complete cop-out so that you don't have to feel responsible to the condition of the world outside your house.
Also, I'd like to note that there were plenty of casualties in the cold war, even if you don't count the Korean and Vietnam wars as part of it. They just didn't put "and today there were another 100 deaths in the Cold War" on the news. Instead of stand up battles between superpowers, we worked mostly through proxies and military/intelligence service "advisors".

[Crazed_Insanity]

Uncle Ben is wise, but he's dead because Peter Parker followed my advice to let God and do nothing, right? My advice is definitely not the most ideal..., but Peter Parker really didn't have good intentions when he let God... We probably shouldn't be secretly happy about somebody experiencing bad things and do absolutely nothing nor should we pretend to see and hear no evil. That's not what I wasn't proposing. We could certainly sanction such a nation or thru other means? I'm just promoting this as if it's star trek's prime directive. Try our best to not intervene(thru war), because usually we'll just mess it up even more. However, when shit is really really bad? I suppose we gotta do what we gotta do if all other options failed.

Anyway, I just don't believe the US government is half as decent as the typical Spider Man. Our government is more like a villain, whenever it intervened, it is probably doing so to protect its own interests. The world does not need that kind of police. Until the day American people are happy with our own police, then perhaps we can consider becoming world police. Until then, we should mind our own business more... unless somebody defenseless is really hurting and begging us to help...

I hope you understand my intend better? I didn't mean it as a cop out, I just think we're lousy cops... so we ought to stay away and not make situations worse. We don't need to be bringing guns to the table as the only solution to problems.

[neanderthal]

Billi, what I was saying is that putting things like wars and conflicts "in god's hands" is a really convenient and complete cop-out so that you don't have to feel responsible to the condition of the world outside your house.
Also, I'd like to note that there were plenty of casualties in the cold war, even if you don't count the Korean and Vietnam wars as part of it. They just didn't put "and today there were another 100 deaths in the Cold War" on the news. Instead of stand up battles between superpowers, we worked mostly through proxies and military/intelligence service "advisors".

He *really* thinks "thoughts and prayers" is a viable means of solving some of these conflicts and issues. Not being sarcastic; he does. It explains a lot.

[Yw-slayer]

Oh, they love it. The crazies I have met who straight out talk about worshipping false idols and say that history proves Christianity is best because it took over the Roman Empire, blah blah blah. Everything is twisted to suit their narrative. So easy. Things go well? "Proof that God loves me/it!" Things not going well? "This is a test from God!" Don't get me started on how that lot claim to be the only Christians around and Roman Catholics don't deserve to be called that. When everyone else is just laughing as they consider the lot of them Christians.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Whether by force or not, Christians do dominate the world. I am including Catholics. That’s the reality whether you like it or not. Jews and their Torah continued on even after major empires have long disappeared. What can we do?

Just look at the founder though, WWJD? He conquered the world not by force but by sacrificing himself on the cross because he loves us.

Lastly, Jesus is not republican, nor democrat. Jesus is not even American nor is he white. He is buddies with whoever wish to be his buddy. If we ever achieve world peace, it’ll be because of him. Without him, the Europeans are probably still barbarians.

Anyway, you guys still don’t get it? Besides laughing at Billi, what would you guys do to solve this problem?

Don’t just belittle others, blame other while you also have no idea what you would do.

Plenty of folks laughed at Jesus who died on the cross. Even if Jesus is pure fiction… plenty of folks have laughed at Christians, or people who are naive enough to believe whatever… but what better alternatives are you offering those who needs to lean on something to go on?

If all you have is meaningless existence, then you can enjoy that yourself. I won’t laugh at you. Just enjoy while you can. I just don’t think you’re in a good position to laugh at others.

[Crazed_Insanity]

He *really* thinks "thoughts and prayers" is a viable means of solving some of these conflicts and issues. Not being sarcastic; he does. It explains a lot.

I thought you’re some sort of believer too? Guess not. Thoughts and prayers are obviously completely useless because republicans are doing it to shift responsibilities?

Anyway, personally yes, when I don’t know what to do, I pray and ask God for direction. Pretty silly thing for people to do, huh? ;)

You know me. I’m silly Billi!

[drew]

It could be argued that most conflicts and wars are/were caused by religion, or religious influence.

So, fuck them.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'd say wars or whatever physical conflicts are caused by our run away emotions. We rarely rationally and logically conclude that we need to wage war on somebody or to invade somebody. We are emotional beings.

Now I do agree religions can provoke lots of emotions.

When emotions run wild, shit can happen.

Instead of blaming religions for our own misdeeds, humanity really ought to blame ourselves for our own screw ups.

Unfortunately, even since the beginning, humanity tried to avoid responsibility. Adam blamed Eve. Eve blamed the serpent... We are supposedly their sorry offsprings. Thank goodness that God still loves us and never abandoned us...

Anyway, regardless of your belief, we just need to learn to pick up our own responsibilities. Blaming others' pretty useless. Palestinians need to be responsible for their own actions. Likewise the Jews. We don't need to be intervening over there all the time. There are no lack of wars... nor lacking peace talks. If you guys have other better solutions, please share. If not, feel free to pick on and blame Billi and religion see if that'll help make our world a better place? ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, another piece on billi's new fave. (https://www.teenvogue.com/story/andrew-yang-nyc-mayor-why/amp?__twitter_impression=true)

Just out of curiosity, which NY mayoral candidate do you support?

And then check below and see how out of touch he is with realities of his city…

They asked these candidates if they know what’s the medium home price in Brooklyn… guess what? Only Andrew Yang got the right answer.

I hope your favorite candidate at least got an answer that’s close?

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/take-this-quiz-to-guess-the-median-price-of-a-home-in-your-city-only-one-new-york-mayoral-candidate-could-do-it-11620755518

[Rikadyn]

Independent third party glasses the region.

[Rare White Ape]

Damn that ignore button. I am unable to see half the conversation.

Am I missing much?

[JoshInKC]

I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, I have to agree. :p


Independent third party glasses the region.
Independent 3rd party? Who? North Korea maybe?

[neanderthal]

Independent third party glasses the region.

Solves one problem. Not that genocide is ever a solution. Creates another "baddie" who- we have to ... deal with.

[neanderthal]

I'd say wars or whatever physical conflicts are caused by our run away emotions. We rarely rationally and logically conclude that we need to wage war on somebody or to invade somebody. We are emotional beings.

Now I do agree religions can provoke lots of emotions.

When emotions run wild, shit can happen.

Instead of blaming religions for our own misdeeds, humanity really ought to blame ourselves for our own screw ups.

Unfortunately, even since the beginning, humanity tried to avoid responsibility. Adam blamed Eve. Eve blamed the serpent... We are supposedly their sorry offsprings. Thank goodness that God still loves us and never abandoned us...

Anyway, regardless of your belief, we just need to learn to pick up our own responsibilities. Blaming others' pretty useless. Palestinians need to be responsible for their own actions. Likewise the Jews. We don't need to be intervening over there all the time. There are no lack of wars... nor lacking peace talks. If you guys have other better solutions, please share. If not, feel free to pick on and blame Billi and religion see if that'll help make our world a better place? ;)

You don't even know your own Bible. smh!!!!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Who cares about bible? Who is your current favorite NY Mayoral candidate?

[Tom Servo]

In the pantheon of moving the goalposts, that was taking the field-goal ones from the new LA SoFi stadium and moving them to football goal at Stadio San Siro.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Do you really want me to keep talking Bible? Stop saying common sensical meaningless shit Tom. Just shut up if you don’t have an opinion. Yeah, I like moving black and white goal posts. Everyone knows it already. I’ve already said enough about the Bible, let’s hear what Neanderthal has to say about his favorite ny mayoral candidate… if he thinks Andrew yang sucks.

[Tom Servo]

A few things:


No.
You're not the boss of me.
Saying I'm using common sense is offensive. I consider common sense to be a synonym for "unresearched."
You're still not the boss of me. If you ask me a question and I tell you I don't have an opinion, asking it again is asking me to tell you you're being a jerk.
I know.
Doesn't make my joke less funny. I don't know shit about European football, and I looked up a stadium that I knew was far away for that joke. I worked for it, dammit. I also saw that it may be (or is going to be) demolished. That would have been good comeback, but that would have been expecting the same level of research on something you likely don't care that much about as you're expecting from neanderthal about the NY mayoral race, which I suspect he similarly doesn't care that much about.
Yes you have.
Why?
I can also think Andrew Yang sucks without having a favorite candidate, just like I can think the Kardashians suck without having a favorite reality show.*


In short - you're notorious for moving the goalposts *and* being a devout Christian, so saying "Nevermind the bible, what's your opinion on the NY mayoral race" is objectively hilarious and my joke is subjectively at least chuckle-worthy.

* This is not indicative of my opinion of Andrew Yang, which I don't need to share with you. I don't really have a lot of one, but I do know that trying to deflect criticism of one person by demanding that someone have an opinion on everyone else who may be in some way related is a tactic to try to shift the onus onto the other person while also avoiding defending your own position. It's similar to telling a movie or food critic "Oh yeah, you think you can do better?" They never said they did, and I don't need to be good at making movies to know when one sucks.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You think you’re funny? I think I’m funny. I know I’m not your boss, but I also didn’t hire anybody to criticize me just for the sake of criticizing me. You do not have an opinion? Well I have. You don’t want to share your opinion？ then don’t share. So you admit you’re not looking for discussions but only interested in criticizing me? I don’t mind criticisms, just don’t be so surprised when I fight back.

If God hired you to be my post critic, then I will shut up. well, did he? :p

[neanderthal]

Um, ... you're as funny as herpes.

[neanderthal]

Something something national security (https://www.latimes.com/world/la-xpm-2012-aug-03-la-na-cyber-security-20120803-story.html?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true) something something Republicans blocked something something oops I did it again.


Cue Capone "oh no. Oh no. Oh no no no no no."

This whole hacked pipeline thing coulda been prevented.

<Capone keeps singing> oh no no no no no!

[neanderthal]

I'm on my phone so can't adequately post this hence the link.

Brilliant synopsis of the Israeli/ Palestinian conflict.

https://twitter.com/__cinephile/status/1392218408910000133?s=19

[Yw-slayer]

Andrew Yang is a twat cibai motherfucker. Henry Golding agrees with me.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Um, ... you're as funny as herpes.

If you give me herpes on one of my cheeks, I ain't gonna just turn and give you my other cheek. I'm gonna give you herpes back!


Something something national security (https://www.latimes.com/world/la-xpm-2012-aug-03-la-na-cyber-security-20120803-story.html?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true) something something Republicans blocked something something oops I did it again.


Cue Capone "oh no. Oh no. Oh no no no no no."

This whole hacked pipeline thing coulda been prevented.

<Capone keeps singing> oh no no no no no!

US really needs to do more on cybersecurity.

However, seeing that there was a huge leak in the pipeline and how their stock rises thanks to the gas shortage, I'm beginning to think they're doing this just to shift blame and to make more money selling less gas. Similar to the Texas situation. If you can make more profit selling even less electricity, why not do that? And then blame mother nature. It's a scheme pioneered by Enron. Rip Californians off, and then blame them for not building enough power plants. It's much easier to justify doing this during a pandemic. It won't be easy for people/government to tell if there's a real shortage or artificially created shortages until much much later...

If these hackers were really serious about messing with US infrastructure, they did a pretty lousy job. The hackers didn't even get control of the pipeline... the company just shut the pipeline down just to be "safe"... :rolleyes:

Even if foreign hackers did gain remote control of the pipeline... what will the hackers do to the pipeline if you don't pay? It'll forever be sucked into cyberspace and gas company will lose that pipeline forever? Be able to steal US gas? Blow it up?

Anyway, hopefully at least this will change the minds of stupid GOP politicians and take cybersecurity more seriously, but I really don't think this particular incident is that serious.

[Tom Servo]

Billi, all I'll say is part of having a discussion can be saying "I think this part of your reasoning is flawed, and here's why." And that part *is* my opinion, and it's the part I shared. It's not even really criticism. The criticism is the moving the goalposts nonsense, and if you want people to stop criticizing you for it, stop doing it.

If your opinion is that "everything I say must be accepted unquestioningly and the conversation must go directly in the way I want it to", you might want to think about starting a comment-section-less blog?

[Yw-slayer]

... you might want to think about starting a comment-section-less blog?

Isn't that what Trump has done?

[Tom Servo]

Pretty much, and he seems to enjoy the heck out of it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Swervo, I get your point, but I just don't think you get mine.

I'm not here for post critics to review my posts and give their honest opinions of how good or bad my post is. I'm not here trying to sell a blockbuster movie or book or food or any consumer product. I'd just like to have discussions. If nobody's interested in talking about such topic, that's fine too. Seriously, I don't mind you being critical, I'd just wish you can offer more constructive criticisms. I also don't mind you being funny, but enough is enough. If you wish to join the same club as Neanderthal and YW, by all means go ahead. But I thought you're better than that.

To me, it is you who divert away from my main point(goal post) and begin to attack(or criticize or share your unsolicited opinion about) other parts of my posts which to me is not the main point. My main point is we need to be more critical of CDC, not about me needing 100% agreement with an article before linking it. Also, this is a political thread, I've already talked enough about the bible, so I'm bring the goal post back to politics... yet neanderthal still has no idea who'd be the best NY mayoral candidate... or like you he prefers to not share... all he knows is we need to attack andrew yang, bernie sanders, AOC... because those other out of touch establishment politicians know how to get the job done for rich people! He's acting just like a Bernie bro, except he attacks in the opposite direction.

At least I don't attack posters here nor do I feel the need to ignore people I disagree with. Now I do attack politicians and established organizations, but I'd also give constructive criticisms on how things should be improved upon. Now I'm not asking you to agree with everything I say, but I hope you understand how annoying you also can be when you distract/correct me as if it's your God given mission to do that. :p

If you have to be a critic, then please at least be more constructive. Don't dwell on the points that are not important to me please. It's like you post something... and then a grammar nazi responded telling you that you misspelled something or used the punctuation wrong. After you addressed what he pointed out, he continues to find more grammatical errors... and when you ask if he has any comments about what you posted... he justifiably said, I have no other comments, just want to share with you my opinion that your grammar sucks.

Okay, thanks for correcting my grammar. Have a nice day grammar nazi! :rolleyes:

[Rikadyn]

Andrew Yang is a twat cibai motherfucker. Henry Golding agrees with me.

Cibai?

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cibai

[Yw-slayer]

Pretty much, and he seems to enjoy the heck out of it.

I suspect someone else here might also enjoy the heck out of his own version!

[Rikadyn]

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cibai

Your insult of him seems redundant now.

He's a whiny little techbro capitalist schmuck , who takes a good idea and tries to reduce it to the lowest and worse implementation of it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Your insult of him seems redundant now.

He's a whiny little techbro capitalist schmuck , who takes a good idea and tries to reduce it to the lowest and worse implementation of it.

What did I miss? Why do you say that?

[FaultyMario]

He's a whiny little techbro capitalist schmuck , who takes a good idea and tries to reduce it to the lowest and worse implementation of it.

I'm saving it. Seems applicable to a lot of rich fucks.

[Rare White Ape]

Can somebody explain to me why god has seen fit to encumber the USA with a friggin shortage of petrol for fuck’s sake?

[Crazed_Insanity]

No. God works in mysterious ways. His thoughts are way higher and bigger and more complicated than our thoughts… so we don’t need to even try to figure out why God let it happen.

Plus, the fiasco is a man made occurrence. Some say it’s hackers, some say they just need to shut it off to fix a leak and blame it on hackers. Regardless of real reason, they make more profit on top of peoples sufferings.

[neanderthal]

What did I miss? Why do you say that?

You really should do more research. Preferably from different sources than you now use. And from writers with a different perspective. It might broaden your mind and ideas, and give you insight that colors and fills out your opinions. <rereads that line and bends over howling with laughter.>

[neanderthal]

Can somebody explain to me why god has seen fit to encumber the USA with a friggin shortage of petrol for fuck’s sake?

He's filled it with given us our fair share of idiots, which, ... is the same thing.

[Tom Servo]

Can somebody explain to me why god has seen fit to encumber the USA with a friggin shortage of petrol for fuck’s sake?

From what I gather, there wasn't much of a shortage at all, it was the hoarding that was a problem. If people had just bought the normal amount of gas they normally do, nobody would have noticed much of anything, except maybe the prices increasing a bit.

I liked how someone put it on Twitter yesterday (paraphrased)



Me: So I want to tell you about the Prisoner's Dilemma. In it, you can either work with your fellow prisoner or betray the...
American: Betray them.
Me: Wait, let me finish, because there's a chance that if you betray them it could end up even...
American: Betray them again, even harder.

[Dicknose]

If people had just bought the normal amount of gas they normally do, nobody would have noticed much of anything, except maybe the prices increasing a bit.

Just a little bit at a time...

[Crazed_Insanity]

You really should do more research. Preferably from different sources than you now use. And from writers with a different perspective. It might broaden your mind and ideas, and give you insight that colors and fills out your opinions. <rereads that line and bends over howling with laughter.>

Dude is leading. Enough read.

[Yw-slayer]

Your insult of him seems redundant now.

The cibai reference is a joke referring to one of Golding's earliest movies which also relate to his South-East Asian routes. It's particularly amusing given that Golding himself used the word twat to describe Andrew Yang. That said, I wouldn't expect you to know the entire context and what makes it so amusing.

[Yw-slayer]

Just a little bit at a time...

Unlike the H2 owner whose car caught fire and burned down with the hoarded petrol in the back. Soooo funny and deserved. But no doubt according to Billi if the owner were Christian then it would be "a test from God", and if he weren't then it would be "God's sign that he should have been a Christian"!!! Lollolol

[Rare White Ape]

"a test from God"

Like that time he showed off to Satan and said that he could be a cunt to people and they'd still like him. Mad flex.

[Yw-slayer]

Pretty much. Stockholm Syndrome, I guess.

[neanderthal]

Dude is leading. Enough read.

I'll remind you of the words of your lord and savior Bernard Sanders after he won the New Hampshire primaries. Something something they'll have to come to us something something.

Black people in South Carolina, collectively; Hold my beer!

-------

Yeah, your dude is leading. It's meaningless. This is what I mean about expanding your perspectives.

[Crazed_Insanity]

He's in NYC. Whether he wins or not, it's meaningless to me. I also didn't donate anything to his campaign..., but I guess he had my info so kept on asking me thru emails... If he runs for president of something more relevant to me, I'll donate again. For now, I'm not going to interfere with NY politics. Will let the new yorkers sort it out themselves. I'll just be pulling for Yang on the sidelines.

So don't get too excited about it... whether he wins or loses. He may very well end up like Bernie. Leading the field with bunch of candidates, but as the field narrows, people end up picking the more 'established' candidate.

Seriously though Neanderthal, my favorite politicians tend to be the ones who are more in touch with the average people.

Problem with our politics right now is that we have too many out of touch politicians. They think people living in cheap houses, giving people way too much stimulus money, $15 an hour wage is just too much... yet they live their lavish lives...

I'm finding Biden to be more acceptable now, but I'd still rather vote for Bernie.

Biden is a nice guy, but being a nice person trying to please everyone just doesn't work. Elizabeth Warren made that error. It was a choice of either Biden or Bernie. Which side are you on Elizabeth? When she failed to clearly articulate that point, it's over for her. She also never bothered to endorse either Biden nor Bernie until the very end. Also leaving her supporters hanging on their own too...

Anyway, my point is that hopefully Biden learned that lesson and stop trying to pretend that he can be the "middle" guy. This strategy will only back fire with people from both sides abandoning him. I do want Biden to succeed and I hope he will, but I still love Bernie.

I still like Yang too, but I just don't trust him as much as Bernie. Just not long enough track record... I have to agree that his tweet about siding with Israel was clearly unnecessary. Do you really need to cater to the rich powerful Jews in the neighborhood? He should've stayed silent. Oh well, nobody's perfect.

If he does become mayor, I just hope he won't be seduced by the powers of the rich and established side. He he stays clean and does a good job... the we just might end up with a chinese president! :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

BTW, to move the goal post somewhere else...

I guess the major sore spot between the Gates' was Bill hanging out with Jeff Epstein, a known sex offender.

Mrs. Gates did not like Jeff, but Bill would spend the night at Jeff's house anyways...

Considering her foundation gives money to fight sex trafficking..., knowing that your husband is such a fucking hypocrite is probably reasonable grounds for divorcing a billionaire.

Makes one wonder perhaps that Q conspiracy wasn't so baseless after all.

[Tom Servo]

Rep. Matt Gaetz Snorted Cocaine With Escort Who Had ‘No Show’ Gov’t Job (https://www.thedailybeast.com/rep-matt-gaetz-snorted-cocaine-with-megan-zalonka-escort-who-had-no-show-govt-job)

Florida, amirite folks?

[FaultyMario]

Florida, amirite folks?

That's what the daily beast has tagged their Gaetz-Greenberg articles with: "Florida Men (https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-strange-friendship-that-may-bring-down-matt-gaetz)"

[drew]

I'm giving it by Memorial Day, Gaetz is indicted, along with possibly others. What a piece of shit.

[sandydandy]

I don't even understand what's going on in the latest Israel vs Palestine conflict, who's at fault this time. Every few years it flares up again. I have noticed Israel's Iron Dome is really being tested, and some Hamas rockets are penetrating. I fear if the Iron Dome fails then Israel will nuke Gaza. They'll also nuke Tehran and Qatar for their supporting roles. It's extremely volatile.

I do love how the US (right-wing) media is blaming Biden for this whole thing.

[Yw-slayer]

This time?

[Crazed_Insanity]

It'll always be difficult to understand the nuance of Israel's conflict with his brothers around the neighborhood. Root of the problem is that Abraham's lapse of judgement which resulted in this unfortunate consequence. The only way to fix it is for Abraham's descendants to work it out and forgive one another. Until then, the conflict will continue.

Yeah, both right and left(AOC, Bernie) are criticizing Biden. One for not standing closer with Israel, and the other for not standing closer with Palestinians.

I've long warned that it doesn't pay to be at the center moderate. You'll only piss off both camps. One should take a stand then you'll at least make one side happy rather than losing both sides.

However, in this particular case, I'm actually personally with Biden. I personally really don't know which side to take too! So I hope president Biden is also praying hard to God about this...

[Phil_SS]

Let's be honest. Once again it is the fault of old white men and it always has been.

[Tom Servo]

According to this article (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/world/middleeast/jerusalem-protests-aqsa-palestinians.html) it comes from recent attempts by Israel to remove Palestinians from "strategic" parts of Jerusalem, which then eventually lead to Israeli police raiding the Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, injuring hundreds of Palestinians. I also read somewhere that there's another incursion into Gaza by Israeli settlers, one of the snippets I heard was a Palestinian being told that his home was no longer his, but if he paid rent to the settler that had claimed it, he could continue to live there.

I'm not sure how well rounded of a story I'm getting, but I can say that when I went to Tel Aviv for work a few times, any time I expressed any sort of thought that Palestinians also have a right to exist, it got real contentious, real fast. The main reasoning being that "we have a lot of people and need more room" wasn't that persuasive with me, though.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Phil, I'd pin it to the old middle eastern man named Abraham.

Actually no, the original problem started with Adam. If he didn't screw up, we just might be fine... assuming none of his descendants also don't screw up.

Asking people to not screw up is also kinda unrealistic. It's not like we can really be perfect like God. After all, we're only His image... not really gods ourselves...

Anyway, please don't unfairly blame everything on white men that's all I'm trying to say. That is racist. Whether if you believe in white supremacy or white people ought to be blame for everything... that's all racist. Humanity sucks overall. Blaming each other and fighting each other and bombing each other obviously solved nothing.

As a last resort, it's probably necessary to exterminate Nazis, but it's probably not right to try to exterminate a group of people who are already living there...

I guess this kind of 'dynamic' is happening all over the world.

The more authoritative, more powerful(Israel, US cops, CCP) attempting to control violent protesters (Palestinians, black americans, HK folks who wants more freedom). Who's right who's wrong? Race has nothing to do with it. Humanity just doesn't want to love one another. Not trying to say race has absolutely nothing to do with BLM movement, but just saying power imbalance induced conflicts can happen everywhere on this planet regardless the color of your skin. When you are more powerful, you tend to want to bully others around rather than treating the weak and poor with more respect. That's a problem the entire human race has, not just exclusive to white people.

[FaultyMario]

The main reasoning being that "we have a lot of people and need more room" wasn't that persuasive with me, though.

Have they or are they bringing in migrants by the thousands?

[Tom Servo]

Not that I'm aware of. I get that Israel is a pretty small country, and I can confirm that Tel Aviv is a *very* dense city. The people I know there truly do think that they just do not have enough land and need to expand. They also just seem all too willing to consider Palestinians to be subhuman and therefore it's totally fine to just occasionally saunter in and say "this part of your land is now ours, what're you going to do about it?", and when they predictably try to fight back, demolish them with their significantly larger and more advanced military.

People who I'd say I normally agree with politically in Tel Aviv really do consider Palestinians to not be worthy of the same respect as almost any other group of people. I didn't particularly think I was going to make a lot of ground convincing them, though.

[Rare White Ape]

I don't even understand what's going on in the latest Israel vs Palestine conflict, who's at fault this time.

It’s deep-seated xenophobia going back decades. That’s about as simply as it can be put.

All bullshit flow-on from something that happened after WWII.

At least the weapons manufacturers are happy.

[neanderthal]

I don't even understand what's going on in the latest Israel vs Palestine conflict, who's at fault this time. Every few years it flares up again. I have noticed Israel's Iron Dome is really being tested, and some Hamas rockets are penetrating. I fear if the Iron Dome fails then Israel will nuke Gaza. They'll also nuke Tehran and Qatar for their supporting roles. It's extremely volatile.

I do love how the US (right-wing) media is blaming Biden for this whole thing.

I posted something a few days ago.

Israelis keep encroaching (<Charlie Murphy voice> He's a habitual line stepper.) on Palestinians territory. What used to be 90% Palestinian land, Israel, is not 90% Israeli land.

[FaultyMario]

They also just seem all too willing to consider Palestinians to be subhuman and therefore it's totally fine to just occasionally saunter in and say "this part of your land is now ours, what're you going to do about it?", and when they predictably try to fight back, demolish them with their significantly larger and more advanced military.

I listened to Norman Finkelstein (http://normanfinkelstein.com/)'s appearance on the Katie Halper show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLVJYmRvvKQ)over the weekend, and he did a pretty good job on clearing some of the underlying reasons on that issue.

[sandydandy]

It’s deep-seated xenophobia going back decades. That’s about as simply as it can be put.

All bullshit flow-on from something that happened after WWII.

At least the weapons manufacturers are happy. Oh yeah I know the history after WWII. Just wasn’t sure what sparked this latest round in the conflict. I’ve now read up on it.


I posted something a few days ago.

Israelis keep encroaching (<Charlie Murphy voice> He's a habitual line stepper.) on Palestinians territory. What used to be 90% Palestinian land, Israel, is not 90% Israeli land. Yeah it’s fucked up. I’ve long supported Israel and their right to exist as a sovereign nation, but the continued expansion/encroachment makes them look like they’re pigging out. There’s vast land between Gaza and the West Bank that they can develop…granted it’s all desert, but didn’t Israel create technology to make desert land fertile? (Or maybe I had a dream about that).

I strongly supported Israel in the last major conflict from a few years ago, when they discovered tunnels running from Gaza. I was quite irritated that the Palestinians would take materials that should be used to build infrastructure and repurpose them for means to attack Israel. They should know by now that they’ll never beat them.

But this latest conflict stemming from continually kicking people out of their homes because some fucking book says it’s their homeland is raising my ire. Plus desecrating a mosque on top of it, is just in poor taste. They should’ve known it would spark a reaction, and the world is getting tired of them hiding behind their cop out phrase of “we have the right to defend ourselves”. What the hell? You provoked this latest conflict.

[Dicknose]

When it comes to the actual violence it does seem to be Hamas that is happy to start and continue it. And it seems to be knowing that the retaliation will be significantly larger and cause a lot more casualties. Then they can say "look at how many kids are being killed by Israel"
Both sides seem happy to use violence.
Unfortunately the victims arent the ones who get to make these decisions.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Best solution is to probably offer those potential victims places of refuge and then just let the rest of them kill each other.

It’ll suck if this end up causing WWIII, but then again maybe won’t be so bad to see Jesus return to clean up the mess.

[neanderthal]

When it comes to the actual violence it does seem to be Hamas that is happy to start and continue it. And it seems to be knowing that the retaliation will be significantly larger and cause a lot more casualties. Then they can say "look at how many kids are being killed by Israel"
Both sides seem happy to use violence.
Unfortunately the victims arent the ones who get to make these decisions.

I, for one, would never blame the oppressed for fighting oppression.
Yes Hamas starts a lot of it but if you consider the conditions Palestinians are living in, I don't blame them.

[neanderthal]

Police unions (https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/05/17/us/police-unions-intervention-blueprint/index.html?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16212983691632&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2021%2F05%2F1 7%2Fus%2Fpolice-unions-intervention-blueprint%2Findex.html) starting to get the idea ...

[JoshInKC]

Best solution is to probably offer those potential victims places of refuge
Well, this certainly worked out very well last time with moving (checks notes) the Jews to Israel.

[Rare White Ape]

Police unions (https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/05/17/us/police-unions-intervention-blueprint/index.html?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16212983691632&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2021%2F05%2F17%2 Fus%2Fpolice-unions-intervention-blueprint%2Findex.html) starting to get the idea ...

Only after having their arms massively twisted, and when it turns out to be beneficial to them.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, this certainly worked out very well last time with moving (checks notes) the Jews to Israel.

A nice nation would offer up a place of refuge in their own nation that’s not previously occupied, rather than carving out somebody else’s nation…

Of course absorbing refugees can cause problems within your own nation too, but that’s probably the best solution that I can see…

Not proposing we help them start a Palestinian state else where…

What do you see?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I, for one, would never blame the oppressed for fighting oppression.
Yes Hamas starts a lot of it but if you consider the conditions Palestinians are living in, I don't blame them.
Oh com’on, don’t be so black a white like Billi.

Whether it’s Palestinians, black lives or HK pro democracy protesters, if you become violent(riot, looting, firing rockets), you will end up hurting your cause and you will end up giving your oppressors the excuse to keep oppressing you in the name of keeping order.

If Jews were killing children and there’s no Hamas, it’d be much easier for the world to intervene and help Palestine.

[Dicknose]

I, for one, would never blame the oppressed for fighting oppression.
Yes Hamas starts a lot of it but if you consider the conditions Palestinians are living in, I don't blame them.

I sort of agree. One side does have all the power.
Doesnt mean I agree with the methods of Hamas, they seem happy to sacrifice their own people. If you want to sacrifice yourself, fair call. But acting in a way you know (and hope) that other people will die is extremely not cool.

I do think the rest of the world needs to pressure Israel to stop settlement grab/creep and to allow a Palestinian state to actually have some self determination.

[neanderthal]

Novel idea; let air plane crew from overseas get vaccinated here when they fly here.

Nope! (https://simpleflying.com/aer-lingus-layovers-no-vaccine/) Recommended they don't fly for a few days after.

Airlines should just pick up the tab for the crew for those extra days. They're the most exposed.

[Tom Servo]

They should’ve known it would spark a reaction...

It's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that Netanyahu totally knew it would and is using it to retain power (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-poised-gain-political-lifeline-violence-flares-2021-05-13/).

[Yw-slayer]

Why, only a cynic would suggest that politicians *HINT HINT NO NAMES MENTIONED* Billi's hometown's female leader *HINT HINT NO NAMES MENTIONED* might use things to shore up their popularity and stay in power.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Whatchu talkin' about YWillis?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Novel idea; let air plane crew from overseas get vaccinated here when they fly here.

Nope! (https://simpleflying.com/aer-lingus-layovers-no-vaccine/) Recommended they don't fly for a few days after.

Airlines should just pick up the tab for the crew for those extra days. They're the most exposed.

Considering that US has the most supplies of vaccines, we should've mandated all international air crews to be vaccinated. You are free to choose not to get vaccinated, but then you don't get to come to US. These crew members are the essential workers... and we really need them to not infect passengers and whatever nations that they're entering...

Anyway, I think that airline's reason for asking employees to not get vaccinated is 'reasonable'. They don't want their employees to get sick due to side effects on the job... and they don't want to pay them extra 'sick days'...

However, if US govt steps in, then the matter can be easily resolved. Any air crews who are anti-vaxxers will also not be flying into the US. It'd be a worthwhile investment if US govt even pays for their vaccines.

[sandydandy]

It's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that Netanyahu totally knew it would and is using it to retain power (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-poised-gain-political-lifeline-violence-flares-2021-05-13/). I think you're right. He's in serious trouble, (or so I've heard). Retaining his power is his only goal. Many kinds of Trump in the world, unfortunately.

[drew]

Scary thing being, they are smarter than Trump about this shit, which makes it horrifying. They know the geo-political game/tactics, he didn't know shit, other than how to just screw people over.

It wasn't so much Trump being president, that laid down the foundation. It's the next person that expands on that AND knows the system and how to manipulate it. The next "Trumpian" candidate/leader will be far worse.

[Rare White Ape]

We've been heading that way for a long time. Trump was merely the guy who laid out the red carpet for alt-right populism.

It's been a long time since the last bloke who really took it too far, and everyone has forgotten how bad it was.

[drew]

Yep. Thus the issue, people have really short memories.

Like when midterms come around next year, nobody will remember Jan 6. Which is exactly what the GOP is pushing/hoping for.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I hate to sound like Trump, but we've gotta also consider 'both sides' of the story.

How was Hitler and Trump able to take advantage of the people's desires in order to do their thing? How can we avoid setting up conditions like that to allow for assholes like that the opportunity to power grab?

Anyway, at least for America, Hillary was probably the worst possible choice to run against the anti-establishment Trump. Even Obama, out of nowhere newcomer, beat out Hillary running against her as the anti-establishment candidate 8 years prior. Obama certainly didn't ease the anti-establishment sentiments during his admin. As cool as he was, if anything, anti-establishment sentiment only grew stronger. Even for me.

Trump certainly is blame worthy, but just saying we also shouldn't forget how we fueled the condition that helped him gain power.

[FaultyMario]

Israel boasts of having THE BEST intelligence services in the world, they sell their intervention equipment and training to many nations, they even taunt others with their autonomous man-killing machines.


Like the Gaza Strip for the Israelis, the US borderlands, dubbed a “constitution-free zone” by the ACLU, are becoming a vast open-air laboratory for tech companies. There, almost any form of surveillance and “security” can be developed, tested, and showcased, as if in a militarized shopping mall, for other nations across the planet to consider.

I'd phrase it like this: The US borderlands are becoming a $40B open-air laboratory for tech companies.


Linky (https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/us-mexico-border-gaza-israeli-tech-wall)

[Fogelhund]

@Politics_Polls
2024 National Republican Primary:

Trump 48%
Pence 13%
DeSantis 8%
Trump Jr. 7%
Romney 4%
Haley 4%
Cruz 4%
Tim Scott 2%
Rubio 1%
Noem 1%
Pompeo 1%
Cheney 1%
Hawley 0%
Hogan 0%
Rick Scott 0%

[FaultyMario]

It looks a rather low rating for Ivanka.

[JoshInKC]

I'd phrase it like this: The US borderlands are becoming a $40B open-air laboratory for tech companies.


Linky (https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/us-mexico-border-gaza-israeli-tech-wall)

This is true. Spending my past few summers ~40 miles from the texas/mexico border in the middle of nowhere, I've become very familiar with cbp's equipment and practices - They can effectively go anywhere and do anything. We've seen footprints from them creeping around our ranchhouse in the middle of the night, playing at terrace-jumping and doing donuts in the middle of pastures and scaring the hell out of cows, &c, &c, &c. More to the point, in anything resembling good weather we're under the unblinking eye of sauron airship (https://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/41394), about 2 miles from what I would call a cell tower, except that none of us get more than 1 bar of shaky service, and we regularly run across weird blackbox-ey unlabeled and unmarked sensors(?) either on tripods or hidden in piles of rocks on ridges.
The agents are also known to be by far the biggest organized gang of archaeological looters in the region. One of them was "verbally reprimanded" by the agency after he tried to sell one of our colleagues a looted burial, complete with mummy, and that's the harshest punishment any of us have ever heard of.

[FaultyMario]

The agents are also known to be by far the biggest organized gang of archaeological looters in the region. One of them was "verbally reprimanded" by the agency after he tried to sell one of our colleagues a looted burial, complete with mummy, and that's the harshest punishment any of us have ever heard of.

Between that and Trump's Wall destroying of (sacred) rare ecosystems... :angry:

[Rare White Ape]

There is no respect for indigenous people.

And to that I say fuck the world let me get off at the next stop.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Have to agree humanity sucks, but the world is still wonderful and amazing! Don’t get off too soon! :p



The agents are also known to be by far the biggest organized gang of archaeological looters in the region. One of them was "verbally reprimanded" by the agency after he tried to sell one of our colleagues a looted burial, complete with mummy, and that's the harshest punishment any of us have ever heard of.

There’s nobody nor any agencies that we can report or complain to?

[JoshInKC]

Yeah, the border patrol. If they were caught in the act and documented as being caught like on video or something* there might be a little bit that could be done, but it would take the landowners pressing charges which is asking for long-term bad trouble, as CBP has near infinite powers down there.

*That's assuming the witnesses survived 'catching' them. They are not known for being trigger-shy. In fact, border patrol was for decades the end destination for cops who were deemed way too violent to exist in polite society. As an agency they anecdotally had more kills through the the 20th century as an agency than all of the police forces and coast guard combined.

[Crazed_Insanity]

WTF?!?!?

[neanderthal]

I hate to sound like Trump, but we've gotta also consider 'both sides' of the story.

How was Hitler and Trump able to take advantage of the people's desires in order to do their thing? How can we avoid setting up conditions like that to allow for assholes like that the opportunity to power grab?

Anyway, at least for America, Hillary was probably the worst possible choice to run against the anti-establishment Trump. Even Obama, out of nowhere newcomer, beat out Hillary running against her as the anti-establishment candidate 8 years prior. Obama certainly didn't ease the anti-establishment sentiments during his admin. As cool as he was, if anything, anti-establishment sentiment only grew stronger. Even for me.

Trump certainly is blame worthy, but just saying we also shouldn't forget how we fueled the condition that helped him gain power.

Fuckers "both sidesing" the issue is how we got Trump and they got Hitler.

Both sidesing anything is intellectual dishonesty. Republicans have very different issues than Democrats. Saying they're the same diminishes any argument by reductio ad absurdum. It renders meaningful discussion moot. It distracts from the real issues. Its comparing a Rorsharch with a Macca F1.

Congratulations. Fuckers like you begot Trump.

[Rare White Ape]

Trump certainly is blame worthy, but just saying we also shouldn't forget how we fueled the condition that helped him gain power.

Neoliberalism, wealth, and media bias?

We didn't fuel it. We are the victims of it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neoliberalism, wealth, and media bias?

We didn't fuel it. We are the victims of it.

I'd also agree with you that I'm a victim, I tend to believe it's the 'establishment', media included, that helped advanced Hillary and derailed our own anti-establishment candidate Bernie Sanders...

Anyway, point is, 'we' are not Trump supporters, right? However, although we are not complicit with neoliberalism, getting massively rich nor do we control left media, but we do somehow end up supporting them more than trump supporters. At least we are more critical of conservatism and rightist media... we end up voting for what 'we' believe to be the lesser of the 2 evils... Okay, I end up choosing to no vote for Hillary..., but point is what I did was still irrelevant.

If only our election process could allow us to actually pick the best possible candidate without considering party affiliation rather than limiting voters to pick between the less of the 2 evils, maybe we wouldn't become so polarized to end up with either only Hillary and Trump. I honestly believe even if we successfully got Hillary in office, we will end up in another kind of mess... and Trump will only return stronger and more popular 4 years down the road.

Without Covid19, I'm pretty sure Trump would've won reelection. He really screwed that up. Biden was lucky that way.

[FaultyMario]

Neoliberalism, wealth, and media bias?

We didn't fuel it. We are the victims of it.

The sanctification of Obama also helped.

When there's no criticism of your guy from you, you validate the others' criticisms of your guy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Actually, you can't really blame any of that on an Australian mate! :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

Fuckers "both sidesing" the issue is how we got Trump and they got Hitler.

Both sidesing anything is intellectual dishonesty. Republicans have very different issues than Democrats. Saying they're the same diminishes any argument by reductio ad absurdum. It renders meaningful discussion moot. It distracts from the real issues. Its comparing a Rorsharch with a Macca F1.

Congratulations. Fuckers like you begot Trump.

I have never said republicans and democrats are the 'same'. I've also never considered republicans as buddies. You and YW enjoy putting words in my mouth.

If fuckers like me begot Trump, you also have to consider why I denied Hillary. 2 sides are definitely not the same. However, to ignore Hillary's issues just because I disagree with Trump is also intellectually dishonest don't you think?

Obama was presented as the 'anti-establishment' candidate at the time. Hillary wasn't even able to beat out Obama during the primary 8 years earlier. What has Obama changed in terms of the 'anti-establishment' sentiment? That sentiment only grew stronger. It should be obvious Hillary was the wrong choice against Trump. Blaming it on fuckers like me solves nothing.

Just as Trump could blame China all he wants, but it doesn't fix the problems we have at home. Blaming others is easy. Problem solving is much harder. I will concede that Biden is a better problem solver than Hillary and Trump. Will Bernie Sanders be a good problem solver? Can't really tell for sure, but at least I trust in his integrity. His singular vision is to narrow the gap between rich and poor. If he achieves that, that'd solve a LOT of our problems. If he failed to achieve it, well, at least we tried... I just know that Hillary and Trump won't even try. With either one in office, rich will continue to get richer and poor will continue to get poorer and poor black lives will continue to not matter. From that perspective, the 2 parties end up creating the 'same' problem... using different methods.

Of course I know you're going to say the only reason dems couldn't solve problems is because GOP blocking them. Well, that could be true..., but hey, you have to figure out ways to win more seats somehow. You can't just cry about unable to be popular enough to win more seats and blame voters for not supporting you enough... Whatever GOP is doing to win more votes and seats, do likewise. Beat them fair and square 1st... rather than blaming 3rd party voters for your own failures.

[neanderthal]

Tweet seems accurate. (https://twitter.com/SashaBeauloux/status/1395748289136545799?s=19) and on point for Andrew Yang.
And that's why popularity in the polls this far out doesn't mean shit.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Name changes all the time! Before we had Kings and Queens, now we have public servants or politicians. Things did improve a little bit compared to before, right? ;)

Anyway, I have to agree Andrew Yang really did not need to pander to the rich and powerful Jews in NYC with that supporting Israel tweet. That's something typical politicians would do. I personally have deducted some points off of him with that tweet. If you want to set yourself apart from the rest of the politicians, you really shouldn't be doing what typical politicians do.

Over analyzing his tweets is meaningless. Just as people over-analyzing Elon's tweets. Who cares? As long as you get the job done, tweets are meaningless. If you're elected only by 'popular' tweets like Trump, you probably won't be very long lasting anyway.

There's no guarantee Yang will become the next mayor, he could very well end up like Bernie... as the rest of the field consolidates, he'll end up getting out numbered...

Still, if the 'established' politicians have done a good job, voters most likely would not even consider an 'outsider' for the job.

I really don't understand why you love those 'established' out of touch candidates so much. Most of them don't even know how much their medium homes cost in their own city!?!?!? Why would anyone vote for such clueless people to represent them? Most of our 'established' public servants are living as if they're kings and queens and believe people should just eat cake if they don't have bread! And $15/hr would allow average people a fancy dinner! That's too much. We can't let them have that!

When there's bipartisan voter support to raise the min wage, yet there's a bipartisan congressional support to deny raising the min wage... that's when anti-establishment sentiments grow... and people like Yang and Trump start to pop up. Oh, and not all anti-establishment candidates are like Trump. You really don't need to attack them all as if they're all cancer. The real cancerous tumor is growing within the establishment.

[Yw-slayer]

Tweet seems accurate. (https://twitter.com/SashaBeauloux/status/1395748289136545799?s=19) and on point for Andrew Yang.
And that's why popularity in the polls this far out doesn't mean shit.

I agree with Henry Golding.

[JoshInKC]

Yang also attempted to reinvent domestic violence shelters (https://www.businessinsider.com/yang-nyc-mayoral-race-homeless-shelters-domestic-violence-50a-2021-5).
Shockingly, it turns out the millionaire techbro doesn't have much of a handle on the real world. He really seems like the exact same type of guy who independently comes up with "What if we made a really big van, and it would run a route and then stop at predetermined places where people can get on or off, and we would charge them a fee for this transportation?"
Yeah, you just came up with the idea of a bus, dipshit.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If the wheel is already functioning properly, I'd agree that there's no point reinventing the wheel. I'm assuming he didn't just want to reinvent the domestic violence shelters because that program has been working so well? It's as if everyone who can afford healthcare already has one, we don't really need Obama to reinvent healthcare and upset status quo yo! It's already expensive enough! Don't mess with it!!!

I also love how reporters like to quiz Yang using code names... "what do you think of repealing 50A?" What? You don't know what that is? All politicians need to know that! It doesn't matter if politicians are clueless about how much housing costs, but you gotta know what 50A is dude! That's how you get shit done in politics while ignoring the real needs of the people!

Seriously Josh, what is more real? To know how ordinary people live their lives(like knowing how much housing costs) or to know the ins and outs of politics and to maintain status quo... because everything is working just fine? People should be grateful how established politicians are working so hard for them? I really think it's the career politicians who are the ones out of touch with reality.

[JoshInKC]

I dunno, I'd maybe expect a guy running for mayor of NYC to be at least familiar with a pretty controversial law governing records of police behavior after the past few years of literally everything involving the police.
I mean, I know what it is and I live 1200 miles away- but I'm probably a special case.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The guy didn't even vote during the last mayoral race I think... yeah, I think he is probably the 'special case'.

For such an outsider to be leading the mayoral race should be indicative of how lame of a job typical career politician is doing.

Hopefully Yang won't be another Trump, but anti-establishment sentiment is still high, not only in red states, but in NYC as well. Our politicians are catering more to the rich and ignoring the mass. This has been a bipartisan effort for a while now.

Dems really need to adapt and figure out a way to integrate these more progressive candidates to the party rather than double down on being proud of the 'establishment' and cast the progressives as idiots who can't get things done.

If Bernie Sander is really annoying... well then the party better find ways to narrow the gap between rich and poor somehow so that you can shut Bernie up! If you do a good job, voters won't be crazy enough to vote for an inexperienced outsider.

[neanderthal]

I agree with Henry Golding.

:up:

Had to look it up.

[neanderthal]

Yang also attempted to reinvent domestic violence shelters (https://www.businessinsider.com/yang-nyc-mayoral-race-homeless-shelters-domestic-violence-50a-2021-5).
Shockingly, it turns out the millionaire techbro doesn't have much of a handle on the real world. He really seems like the exact same type of guy who independently comes up with "What if we made a really big van, and it would run a route and then stop at predetermined places where people can get on or off, and we would charge them a fee for this transportation?"
Yeah, you just came up with the idea of a bus, dipshit.

Weren't the uber founders trying to do that at one time? I thought someone really tried to rebrand buses like they weren't already a thing.
But yeah, :up: total tech bro move.

[neanderthal]

I dunno, I'd maybe expect a guy running for mayor of NYC to be at least familiar with a pretty controversial law governing records of police behavior after the past few years of literally everything involving the police.
I mean, I know what it is and I live 1200 miles away- but I'm probably a special case.

Not to mention, women escaping domestic abuse at specific shelters for them IS ordinary people living their lives.

[neanderthal]

https://youtu.be/wSX-6N_j3-s

I haven't been paying attention. But I follow the right people, so I get updated.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Our world is getting more and more interesting...; however, one thing is becoming clear... that is we better be careful when we choose a side. I think it's fine to choose a side, but we also need to be openminded enough to not belittle, scoff, or be too judgemental of the opposing side.

Whether you picked Jews or Palestinians, lab leak or natural origin, mask or no mask, theistic or atheistic, UFO or no UFO, black lives or blue lives, conservative or republican... whether you are left or right or on the fence... it's fine to pick a side, but please be kinder to your opposing side as well... because neither side is really absolutely sure if the other side is full of shit. In this world, chances are, both sides are probably full of shit unless there's a food shortage? ;)

It's fine to live on one side or even on the fence, but just don't go attacking the other side. Especially with rockets.

BTW, when I'm being 'anti-establishment', I'm not really taking that too 'personally'. I'm not just against Hillary, just anyone who's too cozy with the establishment. Eventho I dislike the establishment, I'd never attempt to destroy the establishment by force. Protest, sure, but I'd likely never resort to violence. If US ever becomes way too 'established' for my taste, I'll probably just immigrate somewhere else. Maybe to Mars.

[JoshInKC]

I fundamentally disagree when many examples of 'sides' come down to kindness vs. oppression.

[neanderthal]

Our world is getting more and more interesting...; however, one thing is becoming clear... that is we better be careful when we choose a side. I think it's fine to choose a side, but we also need to be openminded enough to not belittle, scoff, or be too judgemental of the opposing side.

Whether you picked Jews or Palestinians, lab leak or natural origin, mask or no mask, theistic or atheistic, UFO or no UFO, black lives or blue lives, conservative or republican... whether you are left or right or on the fence... it's fine to pick a side, but please be kinder to your opposing side as well... because neither side is really absolutely sure if the other side is full of shit. In this world, chances are, both sides are probably full of shit unless there's a food shortage? ;)

It's fine to live on one side or even on the fence, but just don't go attacking the other side. Especially with rockets.

BTW, when I'm being 'anti-establishment', I'm not really taking that too 'personally'. I'm not just against Hillary, just anyone who's too cozy with the establishment. Eventho I dislike the establishment, I'd never attempt to destroy the establishment by force. Protest, sure, but I'd likely never resort to violence. If US ever becomes way too 'established' for my taste, I'll probably just immigrate somewhere else. Maybe to Mars.

No fucker YOU NEVER CHOOSE THE SIDE OF THE OPPRESSOR! Never!

You keep both sides- ing shit trying to be clever, and you stay being "holy fucking shit!!!!" wrong each time.

[neanderthal]

I fundamentally disagree when many examples of 'sides' come down to kindness vs. oppression.

It's really that simple.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think I’m fundamentally against oppression as well. However, that can easily turn… no side is always the oppressor nor will it always be the oppressed.

Jews were the oppressed, but now they oppress others.

Neanderthal have no issues with oppressing Billi, but then again he probably think Christians are oppressing him.

Point is, it’s complicated and ‘nuanced’ as I’ve been told million times already. Billi has been told that he can’t be that black and white, but that can be tossed out of the window when you guys see something black and white?

There are also stuff like UFOs… nothing really offensive about such sightings except maybe the person could be viewed as crazy?

Anyway, kindness is the best way IMHO. If only the black thugs and the racist police become kinder to one another, that would help everyone else out tremendously.

[neanderthal]

"it's complicated and nuanced."

Yes. It is. It's not always black and white.

And yet ... you choose the wrong side/ perspective almost every time. Operative word there is "choose."

It's a choice. And you constantly make the wrong one.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Based on what do you know that a particular side is ‘wrong’ or black or white?

Why is it that I cannot be black or white but somehow you just know you’ve picked the right side?

You’ve also said you’d always side with the oppressed and never the oppressor. I said I’d tend to agree with that. Now, do you consider Bernie Sanders as an oppressor? Whats the ‘nuance’ there? Because of Bernie Bros are assholes, Bernie is now an oppressor?

I don’t understand how progressive candidates oppress Americans. Are you using the same Republican logic of if we’re not with you then we must be against you and a trump supporter?

[21Kid]

I'm giving it by Memorial Day, Gaetz is indicted, along with possibly others. What a piece of shit.

You're optimistic...

[neanderthal]

Based on what do you know that a particular side is ‘wrong’ or black or white?

Why is it that I cannot be black or white but somehow you just know you’ve picked the right side?

You’ve also said you’d always side with the oppressed and never the oppressor. I said I’d tend to agree with that. Now, do you consider Bernie Sanders as an oppressor? Whats the ‘nuance’ there? Because of Bernie Bros are assholes, Bernie is now an oppressor?

I don’t understand how progressive candidates oppress Americans. Are you using the same Republican logic of if we’re not with you then we must be against you and a trump supporter?

Yes. You should see their conduct on twitter. Especially towards black women who were supporters of Hillary and Madam Vice President!!!

Like I said, CONSISTENTLY CHOOSE THE WRONG SIDE.

[Crazed_Insanity]

There are always vicious supporters on twitter. Don't tell me Hillary and Kamala don't have them?

Anyway, having stupid twitter followers don't make you an oppressor. You need to judge by what they have actually done!

Progressive candidates are not the oppressors. You can't win using that argument.

You need to adjust your right/wrong, black/white mentality. Don't be like Billi.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.cnet.com/news/john-cenas-apology-to-china-everything-you-need-to-know/

I had no idea John Cena can speak Chinese! Anyway, he issued a formal apology to China for mistakenly said Taiwan is a country. I'm sure YW is happy with that formal apology.

Anyway, Chinese politics aside...

I just thought it's so sad that our rich and famous consistently bowed down to whatever... in the name of profits. Learning to speak chinese to break into the chinese market is cool; however, if you can only speak what the authoritarian regime allows you to speak... then maybe we ought to think twice about making money over there?

[21Kid]

Your hatred for Bernie is something else, Mo.

[FaultyMario]

Your hatred for Bernie is something else, Mo.

https://www.filmfracture.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/fatal-attraction-1-1050x550.jpg

Best way I can describe it.

[FaultyMario]

While on the subject of powerful women... I'm going to leave this here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHr8DTNRZdg

[neanderthal]

Your hatred for Bernie is something else, Mo.

It's his ardent followers more than anything.
The man has achieved a lot of ... nothing, and gained a cult following for it. And he's a really, REALLY, REALLY, shit team player.

In my LA rugby team I didn't drink (rugby has a massive drinking culture; enough that there are many T shirts that say "my drinking club has a rugby problem,") didn't do weed or other drugs (a lot of them did/ do,) didn't really do a lot of other stuff with them when it was on offer. I went out of my way to ensure that they knew I was a part of the team, even though in many ways I kept my distance. I washed the kit/ jerseys more than once every season, gave people rides to and from practise, coached, loaned out my car for one of our imports to use, paid my dues early, bought a jersey every time we bought new kit, I sold the 2nd most raffle tickets when we were fund raising, etc etc etc.
And of course I showed up at early and stayed late at practise, same for games to set up and take down the field. I volunteered to line judge/ assistant referee. etc etc etc.

Bernie may not be a "Democrat" but there's plenty of ways he could show he's ideologically on the team. He doesn't.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Your rationale still doesn’t quite make sense.

It is precisely that he isn’t a team player with the establishment that he gained his cultish following.

Team congress is on rich people’s team. The kind of team that believes $15/hr is too much money! Remember, no republicans obstructed $15/hr min wage. Team dems just didn’t want it passed even though this thing had bipartisan support with ordinary voters!

I don’t like Bernie bros as well, but can’t help falling for Bernie. His integrity just can’t be beat. Even Andrew yang appeared to be pandering for rich Jewish votes…, but Bernie’s vision remained crystal clear and unchanging. Narrow the wealth gap between the 2 teams.

[Rikadyn]

Hillary is to republicans as what Bernie (and Aoc) to conservative democrats.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Conservative dems like Manly Chin should just join the GOP.

Do we have any liberal Republicans?

Anyway, I don’t think Neanderthal is a conservative democrat. He’s just one amazingly loyal team playing democrat.

[Rikadyn]

Do we have any liberal Republicans?



Yea, democrats.

Technically the ideology of Liberalism (more accurately Neoliberalism) covers both of the parties in the United States.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yea, democrats.


:lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/05/biden-manchin-gop-voting-rights/619003/

Neanderthal, do you believe Joe Manchin to be a better team player than Bernie Sanders?

Which one do you hate more?

[21Kid]

It's his ardent followers more than anything.
The man has achieved a lot of ... nothing, and gained a cult following for it. And he's a really, REALLY, REALLY, shit team player.

:blahblah:

Bernie may not be a "Democrat" but there's plenty of ways he could show he's ideologically on the team. He doesn't.
IMO, you have, and continue to, blow the Bernie bros way out of proportion. I barely heard anything about it, from anywhere besides your ranting. 99% of what I see of his followers are basically environmentalists, hippie types.

He's SHOULD only answer to his constituents... Which, from what I've seen, he does more frequently than others. Like with his previous vote on gun laws. I didn't like it at first. But he supported what his voters wanted.

The fact that he isn't on "Team Democrat" is actually one of the things that I admire the most about him.

[Cam]

A female friend, who is politically outspoken on Twitter and does not like Sanders, endures misogyny from Bernie bros. :|

[TheBenior]

A female friend, who is politically outspoken on Twitter and does not like Sanders, endures misogyny from Bernie bros. :|

I found the problem.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, the worst of the Bernie Bros from what I gather has been towards women on Twitter and Instagram. I've definitely seen examples of the same pile-on you'd get from MAGAts, and I don't think it's a big coincidence that a lot of MAGAts were Bernie people who got pissed when Clinton got the nomination.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I almost became a MAGAt, but just couldn’t throw my vote behind a pussy grabber.

Anyway, with the rich becoming richer and poor becoming poorer, it’s natural to end up with a group of angry people, whether trump supporters or Bernie supporters. Antiestablishment folks are understandably angry at the establishment.

Do you guys think their angers are unreasonable?

I personally think Neanderthal’s anger at Bernie is unreasonable. Trump actually has done something one can be angry about, but how can anyone be angry at an old man who has not only failed to oppress anyone but also managed to accomplish nothing? ;)

[neanderthal]

IMO, you have, and continue to, blow the Bernie bros way out of proportion. I barely heard anything about it, from anywhere besides your ranting. 99% of what I see of his followers are basically environmentalists, hippie types.

He's SHOULD only answer to his constituents... Which, from what I've seen, he does more frequently than others. Like with his previous vote on gun laws. I didn't like it at first. But he supported what his voters wanted.

The fact that he isn't on "Team Democrat" is actually one of the things that I admire the most about him.

I'm not on social media except twitter. So I can only report and react to what I see.

And I see a lot of really shit behavior from Berners towards females, especially those who are outspoken in their support of Hillary and Kamala. One of the things that makes it easy is that a lot of them have a rose in their profile. I can't remember how that came about (maybe the Nevada caucuses in 2016?!?!?) so it makes them super fucking easy to identify.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E2gIysrWYA0BEUK.jpg

migrant helps Venezuelan 80 year old woman cross the Rio Grande.

[neanderthal]

Por que¿ (https://twitter.com/magi_jay/status/1398389161531432971?s=19)

[Cam]

I found the problem.
You are victim-blaming. Misogyny is the problem, not where a woman chooses to socialize.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m assuming she endured misogyny from Bernie bros only because she likes Bernie and doesn’t believe he’s also misogynistic?

This is similar to me enduring other Christians because I love Christ.

People have to understand that sometimes there will be a group of supporters that may not fully represent the person or the cause they’re supporting. Violent protesters for example, shouldn’t make their cause wrong, but I can understand people end up losing sympathy for their cause…

Anyway, to blame Bernie Sanders when dems lost to trump is more like victim blame. At least Biden won this time, so the only thing Warren could blame him on is that he’s a sexist and doesn’t believe a woman could win! :rolleyes:

[Tom Servo]

I liked this thread on Twitter from Will Stancil. I'm unrolling it here (and fixing a significant typo he made, but you can't edit tweets).



One thing you see a lot on here is people pointing out the contradictions in the putative views of Trump's GOP. COVID is a Chinese plot but also a hoax. The insurrection was antifa but also a tour of patriots. What people need to understand that is that these contradictions aren't a SYMPTOM of Trumpism. They point to its very core - its emotional, psychological appeal to millions of Americans. The ability to sustain these contradictions is why Trump was elected, how his movement exists.

Ultimately what Trump offers - what fascism offers - is a philosophy of total emotional and psychological indulgence. Believe whatever makes you feel best. Live your politics unexamined.

Don't want to take credit for the insurrection but want to claim its dead as your martyrs? Go ahead! Say it! The capitol was attacked by antifa but Ashlii Babbit was a hero patriot. Hate China but annoyed by the scolding liberals and their masks? Call the coronavirus a Democratic hoax - and at the same time, a deadly foreign bioweapon.

Voters aren't drawn to Trump's politics because of a specific policy view or really even an ideology. They're drawn to them because those politics say, "Please, think whatever is easiest. Indulge your laziest ideas and basest prejudices. There are no rules. Save one. You must support the leader. You cannot abandon the leader. Support for the leader absolves you of the burden of rationality and the sin of inconsistency. Indeed, faith in the leader can be proven by embracing irrationality and rejecting consistency. Prove your faith."

That's why Trumpism and fascism reliably attract the worst and the weakest, the dumb, the selfish, and the cowardly. It's an endlessly flexible vessel for their worst vices, willing to forgive anything and let them do anything in exchange for loyalty to the strongman.

The mistake American political thinkers keep making is to try to link Trump to pre-existing ideology. There are ideas associated with Trumpism, of course, but they are the symptom: what happens when you let people indulge in whatever fleeting hate takes their fancy. You can't understand Trump's rise without looking at this deeper psychological appeal. This is his promise to his voters, it's why nothing his movement says or believes makes sense and no one seems to care.

It's also why we can't triangulate or maneuver his supporters away from him. They don't really want any of what we're offering anyway - they want the freedom to do and think whatever they feel at any moment, something no liberal of any description could ever promise.

[Crazed_Insanity]

People are mad. Anger is an emotional response and can’t be reasoned with.

Only way is to help ease Americans’ anger.

How can we make anger on both sides subside?

I have to say it’ll be much harder to defund the police and to make white people pay some sort of retribution/reparations …, but something like improving education, healthcare, infrastructure, living wages can definitely help poor people in both sides.

Unfortunately our government with money printing machine just can’t afford to improve the lives of average Americans… so we continue to fight each other and kick our problems to some future date as if that’s something we can afford to do.

Trumpism and red states definitely have their share of problems. However, CA and liberal states have theirs too. I recalled an old movie back in 93 called demolition man portrayed what CA would be like in 2030s…

I think we’re slowly getting there. I don’t see how Taco Bell could become that awesome, but I’m guessing soon our homeless tent people will have to start to live underground soon?

Gap between our rich and poor is really too wide. It is mind boggling to me that some people not only refuse to listen to Bernie, but actually wants to crucify him.

I guess my point is that even if we could pray trump and all republicans away, america will remain in a wrong trajectory. The anger shall remain and trump2 will rise up.

[TheBenior]

You are victim-blaming. Misogyny is the problem, not where a woman chooses to socialize.

Twitter is not at all representative of normal people. Gab is probably the only social media format that's less healthy.

It's had a problem with incentivizing petty/snarky/bad behavior from the beginning. People with roses in their profiles tend to think that full-on socialism (collectivizing ownership, not Western European market economies with generous welfare states) is a workable form of government/economic system despite all evidence to the contrary. Get them talking, they'll willingly tell you about how great violent revolution, political executions, and gulags are (like a couple of Bernie campaign staffers who were caught on hidden camera). The Nazis have largely been exiled from Twitter or willingly gone to Gab, but Twitter still has a lot of the fringe leftists.

Step in a cesspool, you might get shit on your shoes.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just for the record, I’m not for full on socialism like what had already been tried in Russia and China.

However, considering how much we’ve been pulled to the right, we probably do need someone like Bernie to pull things more to the left to balance things out a bit.

Until dems no longer have anyone like Joe Manchin and GOP somehow end up with more liberal folks, our nation will just keep on drifting right, and this rightward drift will inevitably widen the wealth gap… and voter resentment will continue to grow and leaving the door wide open for someone like trump.

[Tom Servo]

While I agree with TheBenoir's point about stepping in cesspools, I ultimately agree more with Cam's point that it's more the fault of the cesspool maintainer having a cesspool as one of the biggest destinations on the internet than it is the person who wandered into the cesspool.

[Rare White Ape]

Allowing misogyny to thrive in one corner of the internet will normalise it for a subset of people, thus allowing it to spread and cause women to become the targets of real-life misogyny.

The same applies to all forms of bigotry.

Women should feel safe and welcome to participate in all areas and at all times.

This does not need to be said in 2021 FFS.

[Cam]

Blah...
You're still victim-blaming. Is that how you do your police work? "Oh, you were raped? I'm sorry to hear that, ma'am. Have you tried looking more ugly?"

[neanderthal]

He ain't shit. (https://twitter.com/m_mendozaferrer/status/1398031345561989125?s=19) And like billi, he stays being wrong too

[21Kid]

I remember hearing about the toxic "bros" during the primaries. And I know that Bernie disavowed them.

I haven't heard anything in the news since he denounced them.
I'm not on Twitter, or female, so I didn't realize that it was still around.

I do agree that he hasn't written many bills himself. But, IMO he has definitely helped move the entire party in a positive direction. And he has helped and inspired a lot of new progressive legislators.

re: Twitter = cesspool
How would you even start to clean that up? It's inherently built on click-bait, gotcha, one-liners.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'd side with Nina Turner and Andrew Yang any time.

I used to like Mayor Pete. However, turned out he's kind of a fraud IMHO. Forget about being another corporatist 'team player', what do you think of his handling of the police chief in his town?

I think people like you are particularly despicable, just as the Bernie Bros, to try paint progressives as if they're anti-gay on pride month. Look at the real issue here. Stop it with the identity politics.

[Rikadyn]

re: Twitter = cesspool
How would you even start to clean that up? It's inherently built on click-bait, gotcha, one-liners.

Orbital nuke

[Yw-slayer]

I think it's a bit unfair to cast aspersions on how Benior does his job based on his view of twitter.

[neanderthal]

I liked this thread on Twitter from Will Stancil. I'm unrolling it here (and fixing a significant typo he made, but you can't edit tweets).

I had seen the dichotomy between some of the things espoused by the Trumpers, but this puts them all in one place so nicely.

It makes you realise even more just how batshit they are.

[neanderthal]

I remember hearing about the toxic "bros" during the primaries. And I know that Bernie disavowed them.

I haven't heard anything in the news since he denounced them.
I'm not on Twitter, or female, so I didn't realize that it was still around.

I do agree that he hasn't written many bills himself. But, IMO he has definitely helped move the entire party in a positive direction. And he has helped and inspired a lot of new progressive legislators.

re: Twitter = cesspool
How would you even start to clean that up? It's inherently built on click-bait, gotcha, one-liners.

Sirota and Bree bree (Briana Joy Grey) continued with the toxicity, while they were still on Bernies payroll, even after his disavowal. They were at the top of his organisation. That sent a message to the bros; Bernie had to apologise for ... reasons. And to this day they continue to take pot shots and make snide remarks.

What the moment called for was the same as when John McCain stopped that woman from continuing to talk when she stood up at his townhall; "no ma'am. Barack Obama is a decent family man, citizen. We just have fundamental differences on issues. He's not an Arab" {paraphrased.} McCain's response could have been better, but what it did was cut the bullshit. The wing nuts continued to lie about him, but what McCain did was delegitimise the lies.

That's what this moment called for. Bernie's disavowing them but not taking a strong stand against his lieutenants doing the same, may have done more harm than good.

[neanderthal]

I'd side with Nina Turner and Andrew Yang any time.

I used to like Mayor Pete. However, turned out he's kind of a fraud IMHO. Forget about being another corporatist 'team player', what do you think of his handling of the police chief in his town?

I think people like you are particularly despicable, just as the Bernie Bros, to try paint progressives as if they're anti-gay on pride month. Look at the real issue here. Stop it with the identity politics.

Of course you would. I mean, Andrew Yang literally sided with Israeli strikes against Palestinians, in a statement that was HIGHLY PRAISED by Stephen fucking Miller, Donald Trump Jr, Ted Cruz, etc.

That's not a trio of people i'd want endorsing anything i say.

[neanderthal]

The two biggest most reliable blocs of Democratic voters are African Americans and Jews. And right now the progressive left is trying to drive a wedge between them.

It's like they realise that by splitting them then they can maybe gain power.

We, AAs and Jews, are aware of their bullshittery. I, and many other Africa Americans, condemn strongly the actions of the state of Israel in this instance. But I can do that while saying they have the right to exist as a nation.

[Jason]

Wait, I must have missed the progressive meeting that is calling for Israel to not exist

[FaultyMario]

re: Twitter = cesspool
How would you even start to clean that up? It's inherently built on click-bait, gotcha, one-liners.

It really depends. I think that with the right blocks and mutes, I can be exposed to a limited degree of reasonable discussions of politics there; it can be a bit of an echo chamber, but hey, that's way better than stepping in the shithole.

[FaultyMario]

I think it's a bit unfair to cast aspersions on how Benior does his job based on his view of twitter.

Agreed.

It applies to everybody online. A lot of nuance is lost in text-only exchanges.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The two biggest most reliable blocs of Democratic voters are African Americans and Jews. And right now the progressive left is trying to drive a wedge between them.

It's like they realise that by splitting them then they can maybe gain power.

We, AAs and Jews, are aware of their bullshittery. I, and many other Africa Americans, condemn strongly the actions of the state of Israel in this instance. But I can do that while saying they have the right to exist as a nation.

Nobody's trying to wedge anything.

I do believe Andrew Yang was pandering to Jewish votes for siding with Israel. He's running for mayor of NY. I can't blame him, but I lost some respect for him.

Bernie Sanders is siding with the Palestinians because they are the ones being 'oppressed'. That is how you'd draw YOUR line too, right? I don't believe Bernie is the type who'd pander to any groups. He seemingly just want to do what's right. You just may think those right things are not pragmatic or practical enough?

The only wedge in existence is the one AA doing to themselves. Loyalists believe they are actually part of the 'establishment'. Dude, do you seriously believe you are part of the 'establishment'? Exactly how much money are you making?

Seriously dude. You hate Bernie more than ManlyChin! Who's side are you on? Do you also believe $15/hr is too much money? Failure to raise min wage can no longer be blamed on GOP blocking it. Dems themselves couldn't pass it! Time to wake up that the democratic party need to shift a bit more to the left... to the progressive side... and not to grow any more manly chins.

IMHO, what's more practical is to achieve bipartisanship with actual voters. Screw negotiating with GOP politicians. $15/hr has bipartisan support with voters. Biden should've pushed harder. Manchin would not lose his seat if he passed it. The only people he'd end up upsetting are his donors.

Anyway, just to be clear, I don't believe Biden to be all bad... I've stated before I was impressed that he didn't cave to big pharma by allowing them to keep intellectual property rights with covid vaccines. I wasn't expecting that. I do believe Biden is probably doing his best... and he probably is the right man for the job at the right time. Right now, voters want normalcy... and he's as normal as it gets. Socialist Sanders might not be able to beat Trump...

[21Kid]

Sirota and Bree bree (Briana Joy Grey) continued with the toxicity, while they were still on Bernies payroll, even after his disavowal. They were at the top of his organisation. That sent a message to the bros; Bernie had to apologise for ... reasons. And to this day they continue to take pot shots and make snide remarks.

What the moment called for was the same as when John McCain stopped that woman from continuing to talk when she stood up at his townhall; "no ma'am. Barack Obama is a decent family man, citizen. We just have fundamental differences on issues. He's not an Arab" {paraphrased.} McCain's response could have been better, but what it did was cut the bullshit. The wing nuts continued to lie about him, but what McCain did was delegitimise the lies.

That's what this moment called for. Bernie's disavowing them but not taking a strong stand against his lieutenants doing the same, may have done more harm than good.

I guess I don't follow politics close enough. I've never heard of those two people before.

He did try to put a stop to it. The only difference is it wasn't one of them directly asking him to call her out.

Sanders urged supporters to strike a civil tone and “engage respectfully” with his opponents. “I want to be clear that I condemn bullying and harassment of any kind and in any space,” he wrote.
In a second apology, Sanders was more forceful about the discrimination against women. “What they experienced was absolutely unacceptable and certainly not what a progressive campaign or any campaign should be about,” he said.
The presidential candidate responded that he was "absolutely aghast" and "disgusted" with their aggression online and condemned their behavior.
"I disown those people. They are not part of our movement." Seems like he was pretty straight forward about it.
I never heard anything about it coming from inside his campaign.

[Jason]

I guess I don't follow politics close enough. I've never heard of those two people before.


I’m starting to think the same… never heard of those people, and I’m often surprised by what behaviors are supposedly part of being “progressive”

Might be because I only use Twitter for porn er art

[21Kid]

I'm glad to see more of your art lately. ;)

[neanderthal]

Wait, I must have missed the progressive meeting that is calling for Israel to not exist

I didn't say that happened though.
I can see how you would infer it, but I didn't say it.

I simply said they're trying to drive a wedge between the Jews and the African Americans. Ostensibly to divide the power structure that keeps the <checks billi's notes> "corporatists" in power.

I used the current situation re Israel/ Palestine for context. It was not meant to imply anything.

[neanderthal]

I guess I don't follow politics close enough. I've never heard of those two people before.

He did try to put a stop to it. The only difference is it wasn't one of them directly asking him to call her out.
Seems like he was pretty straight forward about it.
I never heard anything about it coming from inside his campaign.

Briahna Grey Joy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briahna_Joy_Gray)

One of the podcast's most discussed episodes was an October 2020 debate with Noam Chomsky, who implored listeners to vote for Joe Biden as a second Trump presidency would be more detrimental for the world; Chomsky has referred to the Republican Party as one of the most dangerous organizations on Earth, largely due to the party's actions regarding the global climate crisis.[24] Conversely, Gray and Texas argued that progressives should only be willing to vote for one of the major parties if certain standards are met.

Knowing what we know about Trump, that's. what. she. said. And that's just from the wikipedia article that gives a brief synopsis of who she is. I have zero tolerance for that bullshittery. People were deliberately harmed by Trump, and here she is essentially saying the Dems candidate wasn't good enough. In a two person race, with Trump as one option, she was holding her nose and both sidesing the election. She, and that attitude, can get fucked.

Biden has his own problems and deficiencies. Criticise them on their own merits.

David Sirota. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sirota)

Read for yourself (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/03/sanders-promised-civility-hired-twitter-attack-dog/585259/) You can look into the tweets he deleted for yourself. Same with tweets and articles during and after Bernie suspended his campaign.

[Jason]

I don’t really care one way or the other about the people you mention, but I will say, threatening to withhold voting is part of the platform negotiation process, and not at all unique to the Democratic Party, or US politics.

That being said, naive purity extremists need to come back down to reality sometimes, and I have a feeling that’s a lot of what you see online, and frankly give too much attention to.

[FaultyMario]

I'm glad to see more of your art lately. ;)

Shady's back, back again?

[21Kid]

I don’t really care one way or the other about the people you mention, but I will say, threatening to withhold voting is part of the platform negotiation process, and not at all unique to the Democratic Party, or US politics.

That being said, naive purity extremists need to come back down to reality sometimes, and I have a feeling that’s a lot of what you see online, and frankly give too much attention to.

Agreed on all accounts.

[TheBenior]

You're still victim-blaming. Is that how you do your police work? "Oh, you were raped? I'm sorry to hear that, ma'am. Have you tried looking more ugly?"

Because seeing mean things on the internet is just like being raped.

I have some tact, and I do not share your child-like view of the world that assigning people agency and the ability to assess risks is "victim-blaming." I've taken more reports for criminal sexual assault (as we call it in Illinois) than the average officer (due to working in a District with multiple hospitals) and had plenty of thank yous from victims and their friends/family.

People shouldn't drive drunk, yet I also don't ride my motorcycle at 5 am on Sunday mornings right after the late night bars let out. Every police officer and state trooper around Chicago could arrest a drunk driver on a Saturday night/Sunday morning, and there would still be plenty of drunks on the roads. If I got taken out by a drunk driver, the drunk driver would be in the wrong, but that wouldn't bring me back from a death where I could have chosen to reduce my exposure to that risk.

People shouldn't steal, but I lock my doors, don't leave valuables visible in my parked vehicles, and have security cameras on my house (though that was more so my wife felt safer at night when I wasn't home).

I'm free to go to Touhy Herbert Park on Father's Day weekend without risking a fight or a shooting. Would I? No, because it becomes an annual Black Disciples (and sometimes Four Corner Hustlers and Traveling Vice Lords) gang reunion/shaky truce.

I should've been able to go to my wife's grandfather's funeral on the far South side of Chicago without risking a gunfight, but I still brought a higher capacity handgun than I usually carry off-duty, and felt absolved in my thinking when a random guy got murdered out front of the funeral home 10 minutes before we arrived.

Maybe it's because I grew up in a country where we have near-absolute freedom of speech (unlike you), but I believe that people are free to continue to argue for racial discrimination against Asians in university admissions and job hiring under the guise of Ibrahm X. Kendi's "Anti-Racism." I remember being when the ACLU's free-speech absolutism that allowed Nazis to march in Skokie was considered exemplary, and I have Jewish relatives in Skokie. Do I find it offensive, just like when Jews were openly discriminated against by the Ivy League universities through the 1960s? Sure, but I don't I believe in freedom from offense.

Now, if Twitter trolling crosses the bounds of legality (we have the law Harassment by Electronic Means in Illinois, though some portions are arguably 1st Amendment violations) into overt, plausible, physical threats, that should be addressed. However, I have no faith in Twitter being able to prevent such things from happening (ironically, that was part of the rationale for taking Parler down). Social media have a lot of perverse incentives to take advantage of our hardwired negativity bias, and Twitter is one of the worst in that respect.

[Tom Servo]

I'm free to go to Touhy Herbert Park on Father's Day weekend without risking a fight or a shooting. Would I? No, because it becomes an annual Black Disciples (and sometimes Four Corner Hustlers and Traveling Vice Lords) gang reunion/shaky truce.

I just pull this out because for me, it seems similar to Twitter, at least for some. I'm pretty terminally online, but I did not know how bad of a cesspool Twitter was until I'd be on there for a while and been through it myself. I also would have no idea that I have to avoid that park on that day. To me, those seem similar, at least as far as "you should have known better" goes.

[Jason]

The nuance of risk assessment vs victim blaming is always a difficult one to navigate, and I think Ross nailed it, even if none of it is ideal

I don’t think one deserves harassment for being on Twitter, but it also kinda comes with the territory since it’s a known “feature”. Ideally Twitter would deal with the problem better, but that’d mean *really* heavy handed moderation, and frankly they don’t have a profit driven reason to do that (yet). Does that mean it’s the victim’s fault? Nope. It’s the harasser’s fault (and partially Twitter’s), even if one acknowledges risk mitigation steps “missed”.

[Tom Servo]

Good news, everyone, Arizona's bringing back Zyklon B!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/01/arizona-gas-chamber-execution/

[Rare White Ape]

The death penalty as a concept is fucked. It needs to be abolished worldwide.

Reading accounts of inmates being executed is grizzly and macabre. It takes a special kind of society to come up with ways to kill people, no matter how bad the crime.

[TheBenior]

I just pull this out because for me, it seems similar to Twitter, at least for some. I'm pretty terminally online, but I did not know how bad of a cesspool Twitter was until I'd be on there for a while and been through it myself. I also would have no idea that I have to avoid that park on that day. To me, those seem similar, at least as far as "you should have known better" goes.

In this case, there is a bit of denialism on the part of would-be gentrifiers. With the exception of Kenwood, just about every black neighborhood in Chicago has a higher than average violent crime rate. As redlining became rarer and rarer during the 1980s and 1990s, more and African Americans in then middle-class black neighborhoods like Chatham followed the traditional immigrant patterns of moving out of inner cities to suburbs and sunbelt cities with less crime, better schools, and more house for their money. The demolition of large housing projects and scattering of their residents and gang conflicts into various neighborhoods also gave more incentive to leave for the suburbs/sunbelt.

I would also like to add that with gangs, most members aren't psychopaths (though some of the reliable shooters certainly are). They typically grew up without stable father figures, have poor impulse control and ability to delayed gratification, and are in social settings/groups with anti-social/perverse incentive structures which exploit and perpetuate those issues. Young men are prone to adventure, and gang life may seem exciting.

The dunking on people and snarky soundbite culture of Twitter is likely a large part of the appeal to the minority of Twitter users who do the vast majority of posting. Twitter isn't unique in monetizing maladaptive behaviors; alcohol and gambling addicts make up a huge percentage of their respective industry profits.

[TheBenior]

The death penalty as a concept is fucked. It needs to be abolished worldwide.

Reading accounts of inmates being executed is grizzly and macabre. It takes a special kind of society to come up with ways to kill people, no matter how bad the crime.

Special if you consider the norm of thousands of years of human history to be special. Not killing people or exiling them to slow deaths in the wilderness is the exception likely only made possible by excesses of resources.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't think I can say it any better than Benior. So will just leave it at that.

It is just saddening to me that our society has seemingly lost the ability for responsibility or accountability. Seriously, both sides are playing the blame game and pretend they themselves did no wrong. From the impeachment to the insurrection..., the right believe they've done no wrong... they were framed... or it didn't happen. Let's just forget about them and move on. Likewise, on the left, they still don't want to explore the possibility of a lab leak... at least you won't see any media on the left talking about it. Chinese can't possibly leak it... and America can't possibly funded it. Let's just pretend that couldn't possibly happen just like the insurrection didn't happen.

Real truth is really difficult to see now that it's so politicized. It's hard enough as it is to try to dig to the truth, but now politics can end up preventing us from digging at all!

I guess I'm glad we still have free speech so that at least the opposing side can still talk about it. Still, opposing side placing the blame, while the perpetrator refuse to acknowledge any wrongdoing still won't help much.

Anyway, at least truth can't be covered up forever. It's like foam, it has a way of bubbling up to the surface to reveal itself. I couldn't believe Tulsa Massacre happened just 100 years ago. But no matter how one tries to cover it up, it will reveal itself in due time.

[George]

It takes a special kind of society to come up with ways to kill people, no matter how bad the crime.

Here's an excellent (and currently free) podcast about just that. It's only four and a half hours long.

https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-61-blitz-painfotainment/

https://www.dancarlin.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/HH61-cover-1400px-600x600.jpg

[neanderthal]

The death penalty as a concept is fucked. It needs to be abolished worldwide.

Reading accounts of inmates being executed is grizzly and macabre. It takes a special kind of society to come up with ways to kill people, no matter how bad the crime.

Especially because so many people who are on death row had shitty legal representation, dubious case against them, etc etc etc.

However. You go shoot up a church? Die motherfucker. Go across state lines with your gun and shoot two people who are protesting. Die motherfucker. Terrorise all of DC, shooting random people? Die motherfucker!

[neanderthal]

I don’t really care one way or the other about the people you mention, but I will say, threatening to withhold voting is part of the platform negotiation phttp://gtxforums.net/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=165433rocess, and not at all unique to the Democratic Party, or US politics.

That being said, naive purity extremists need to come back down to reality sometimes, and I have a feeling that’s a lot of what you see online, and frankly give too much attention to.

I don't believe I only pay attention to the "naive purity extremists." I like to think i'm fairly open minded and i endeavor to read as many perspectives as I can. I was not always liberal. I'm actually quite conservative, but the bullshit of the capitalist and economic systems coupled with political fealty to the wealthy has made me side with and choose to be liberal; in terms of levelling the playing field. I personally don't believe in welfare; but the society we live in requires because of the inequities built within it. That's a great example of a "for instance" where my own personal beliefs are tempered by reality. Same for housing assistance and EBT/ food stamps, except the very same conditions that make me go against my own beliefs exist fir those too.

That said, in 2016 I saw the exact same harassment of Clinton supporters (if you recall I was a very strong Bernie supporter at the outset of the 2016 competition! I'm all for progressive ideals, but that's tempered by reality.) by Sanders supporters/ progressives on twitter. The difference this time is that we aren't taking their bullshit. And it angers them when we respond and refute their bullshit. They'll swarm an account, report the account, trying to suspend the account with twitter, doxx them even. And they'll do vile uncouth shit. That's uncalled for and immature. And, it happens over and over again. Mainly to black women. (Not only to black women. An account I follow is of a gay black man living in the east somewhere (NY?) His dad just passed away. And you should have seen some of the vitriol directed at him in the responses. Like, who does that?!?!?)

Actually, thinking about it now, it could be foreign based bot farms. :?
.
I ignore utter bullshit. Trump supporters for instance. Dudes entire platform was complete bullshit. There wasn't a lick of sense it made if you applied any thought to it; i don't need to pay attention to that.

[Jason]

While I don’t fully blame it, I do think we underestimate just how much bad actors push extreme narratives to sow discord. It’s relatively easy to setup bot farms or whatever to push divisive opinions that people latch on to, to create chaos. It’s been something intelligence/national security agencies have been monitoring afaik.

[Rare White Ape]

Bot farms will be used to drive an opinion, but once the opinion takes hold then their influence will be scaled back (all that costs money) because humans will be doing that job all by themselves.

Swarming and doxxing an account would require more human input, surely? It’s a terrible thing to do to someone.

I’m on a few ahh... “progressive” groups on Facebook (to be honest they’re mostly more antifa and anahrchist aligned politically, while strongly anti-capitalist and pro-welfare and gay/trans rights socially) who definitely support Sanders over Biden, but I’ve never seen the sort of behaviour where they’re dogpiling onto someone who’s views are ever so slightly off the tone of the group’s. If they’re overtly trolling they are usually argued with then quickly banned. None of these groups would stand for harassment.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It's very convenient to just discount certain progressives you don't like as russian assets.

Are they really russian assets? Maybe. Could russians also take advantage of them to create discord in US? Why not? Foreign nations would rather not see USA being that united.

Forget about bots, trolls, bros... or whatever for a minute...

What Gandhi said about Christians don't really make any sense to me. Sure, you can easily dislike Christians, especially if we take a closer look at Westboro Baptists. However, we also need to examine the core value of Christ himself, right? If you truly like Christ, why can't you like him for who he is and not hate christianity because of the lame followers, supporters, believers?

The worst thing you can demonstrate about Bernie Sanders himself is that he accomplished nothing in congress.

Given that congress is bought and paid for by the rich, don't you think it makes perfect sense why Bernie couldn't do much in such environment?

Neanderthal, I really think you are being irrational about your hatred for Bernie.

[Tom Servo]

Everyone's favorite congressional lunatic Greene demands answers about Fauci by June 31st. I have bad news for her...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3ENxLdX0BAz1r4?format=jpg&name=large

(this is real: https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1400916114620702729)

[neanderthal]

Everyone's favorite congressional lunatic Greene demands answers about Fauci by June 31st. I have bad news for her...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3ENxLdX0BAz1r4?format=jpg&name=large

(this is real: https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1400916114620702729)


Propagating false narratives?

Your honor, may it please the court, I draw your attention to peoples exhibit 1; January 6th 2021. We would like to talk more about propagating false narratives. And may we bring to the attention of the court, in the constitution section 18 code 2831 "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and etc" may we put forth, ... in fact we propose a motion to censure Miss Greene, expel her from the Congress, and charge her with treason under the auspices of the aforementioned law.

The defense rests.

[Rare White Ape]

Only seasoned idiots would still believe the malicious actor theory (otherwise known as conspiracy nonsense) by this point.

[JSGeneral]

That timetable is a bit unfair for Dr. Fauci to research and compile all the requested data for that report.

It'd be more reasonable to extend that deadline to Feb 30, 20&2.

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

It is really funny that each party will only hold the other party responsible. It's always the other party's fault, but when it comes to your own party, your see no evil hear no evil. We only embrace the convenient truths and ignores the inconvenient truths... and that's how we end up with alternate facts/realities I guess. Hopefully someday real truth can become bipartisan.

[Jason]

Everyone's favorite congressional lunatic Greene demands answers about Fauci by June 31st. I have bad news for her...

…

(this is real: https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1400916114620702729)

:erm:

[Crazed_Insanity]

June 31st, Feb 30th, what's the difference. If these demands are not met on those dates, we will ask Antifa to start another resurrection!

[FaultyMario]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/Stone_Roses_I_Am_the_Resurrection.jpg

[2ndMoparMan]

MTG is an oxygen thief. Dunno HOW the fuck she got elected in that disctrict.

[Yw-slayer]

It's because there are many people out there with the vote who are less intelligent than Billi.

[Rare White Ape]

She was QAnon-adjacent. A movement which mysteriously ceased to regularly provide drops to its followers right around the time of the last presidential election and had Trump won he would no longer have needed QAnon's help to win the poll.

Not saying that correlation implies causation or anything.

[Tom Servo]

She wasn't just QAnon-adjacent, she was 100% on board. She's right up there with Flynn, completely at least in on the grift and only denying it when it might get them into trouble. She won her primary against John Cowan who wasn't a big Trump supporter mostly by raising a ton of money likely through Trump's fundraising apparatus, and then the district she's in is heavily Republican and her Democratic opponent unofficially withdrew before the election.

Also, at least in some districts, I think getting elected after spouting lots of anti-semitism is a feature, not a bug.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It's because there are many people out there with the vote who are less intelligent than Billi.

Whew, thanks YW, at least you don’t think that I’m THAT stupid! :p

[G'day Mate]

Aim low and win!

[Jason]

MTG is an oxygen thief. Dunno HOW the fuck she got elected in that disctrict.

Are you new to the US?

[Yw-slayer]

Lol

[Crazed_Insanity]

MTG is an oxygen thief. Dunno HOW the fuck she got elected in that disctrict.

Yes, especially nowadays when all the mtgs are virtual, boring mtgs definitely would suck the oxygen out of me and cause me to doze off… :p

[Rikadyn]

I see mtg I immediately think magic the gathering

[Jason]

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jun/11/facebook-ads-turning-point-usa-rally-forge

This is the sort of shit I’m talking about. There’s been clear and concerted efforts, especially since 2016, to divide the left. It’s not always bots or whatever, it’s bad actors pushing narratives, and getting gullible folks riled up.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It's quite amazing FB and FEC seemed to not care what was happening...

However, it's easy to divide the left... the centrists and the leftists already don't like each other very much. In fact, the centrists would rather work with the rightists rather than the leftists. Of course the main problem was that the Trumpists ended up hijacking the rightists...

Anyway, the centrists need to figure out where do they stand. Are they closer to Bernie Sanders or they rather go along with Joe Manchin? I think the answer is already pretty clear. Who the F cares about Bernie Sanders. Nobody likes him. That's why it only took them $2,467.54 worth of concerted efforts to split the dems up.

A conservative who call himself a democrat..., that's essentially the definition of a centrist, right?

Time to sow some discord on the other side! Wonder if we can make some republicans more liberal?

Only way is probably for Sanders to attract more blue collar conservatives. Maybe Sanders need to stop calling himself democratic socialist... and just call himself a democratic unionist? Conservative working class are not against unions, right?

Anyway, considering the divide between rich and poor has accelerated, I do believe the 'establishment's' days are numbered. Either we have an overhaul and make things fairer and more authentic or the next insurrection will probably be a successful one.

[FaultyMario]

"When America sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they are taking those problems with them". (https://thegrayzone.com/2021/06/09/israeli-home-thief-long-island-financial-fraudster/)




Notorious for his presence in viral video of Israeli home thefts in Jerusalem’s Sheikh Jarrah, “Yaakov Fauci” is actually a federally charged con artist from Long Island named Justin Fauci.

[Jason]

It's quite amazing FB and FEC seemed to not care what was happening...

However, it's easy to divide the left... the centrists and the leftists already don't like each other very much. In fact, the centrists would rather work with the rightists rather than the leftists. Of course the main problem was that the Trumpists ended up hijacking the rightists...

Anyway, the centrists need to figure out where do they stand. Are they closer to Bernie Sanders or they rather go along with Joe Manchin? I think the answer is already pretty clear. Who the F cares about Bernie Sanders. Nobody likes him. That's why it only took them $2,467.54 worth of concerted efforts to split the dems up.

A conservative who call himself a democrat..., that's essentially the definition of a centrist, right?

Time to sow some discord on the other side! Wonder if we can make some republicans more liberal?

Only way is probably for Sanders to attract more blue collar conservatives. Maybe Sanders need to stop calling himself democratic socialist... and just call himself a democratic unionist? Conservative working class are not against unions, right?

Anyway, considering the divide between rich and poor has accelerated, I do believe the 'establishment's' days are numbered. Either we have an overhaul and make things fairer and more authentic or the next insurrection will probably be a successful one.

Moderate Dems (or “centrists”) and Progressives have way more in common than not, imo, but keep trying to push that narrative.

In regards to Manchin, he’s just about the best the Democratic Party is going to get in WV, it’s either someone that votes with Republicans ~50% of the time, or someone that votes with Republicans ~100% of the time. Is it frustrating? Sure, but he’s probably the best we can do there.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I totally agree dems shouldn’t be that divided!

Everyone agrees with raising the min wage! Only the few Joe Manchin types cannot get on board with that.

Are we sure that’s the best we can do in those states? Plenty of conservative voters are okay with living wages. It’s only the corporate bought and paid for politicians are against living wages.

And the reality is that Biden and dems are more willing to work with republicans politicians than with voters. Just because those politicians said no, doesn’t mean their constituents are totally with them!

If dems wish to win more votes from voters, why not do the things voters really want?

Republicans can do a much better job at making corporations happy. They don’t really need the Democratic corporate centrists doing a half ass job for them.

Dems need to do some soul searching and figure out who are they working for and what’s their vision….

To be ‘normal’ is great after trump and pandemic, but being normal and center and average is usually not a good recipe for success.

[Jason]

Conservative voters may be ok with things like living wages, or even universal healthcare when asked a question as unbiased as possible in polling… but they are not at all ok with things like abortions, or gun restrictions. “Single issue voting” really decides where people vote more often than we think.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dems need to try to steer voters away from single issues… because obviously it hasn’t been working. Moderate/centrists by definition are just not that passionate about any single issues. It also doesn’t make sense for dems to become pro guns and against choice like Manchin. WTF are you still a dem if you’re actually a Republican?

Only way to win voters over is by doing what voters actually want.

Things like gay marriage is also slowly shifting. People just are not going to change positions with debates, but as people get to know more and more gays, in their own families, attitudes just might shift. As for abortion issues, it’s really a none issue. Birth rate is down. Abortion is also down. It’s really really stupid for us to be stuck on this issue. There are much bigger things for us to worry about than that single issue.

Biden is currently doing well not because of any single issue, but because he’s getting things done. I just wish he could take the opportunity to do more…

Eventually once normalcy is achieved, voters will want more. What more can dems offer?

Modern trends has been W fucks up, okay let’s give Obama a try. Normalcy achieved, we want trump! Then trump fucks up, then let’s give Biden a try…

Dems need to have something voters actually want. Not just somebody to clean up republicans messes.

IMHO, there’s no way Biden could win if we never had Covid. Trump the idiot should be able to easily win re-election.

Dems really need to do better, and not just count on luck.

Seriously Neanderthal, I don’t hate the dems, I really just want it to be better. But I think you represent the dems very well. You don’t think there’s anything wrong with the dems, it’s always the fault of the republicans and the progressives…

[neanderthal]

*You're always attacking the Democrats. Always. No fire for the Republicans. I'd literally be complaining abbout Trumps detention centers and you'd be saying black lives don't matter, so fuck you.
*I don't think the Democrats are perfect. I've stated, very often, for instance, that they are exceptionally poor at messaging.
*Well, being that most of society's problems can be traced back to Nixon, Reagan, Bush, etc and their policies, nevermind the Koch Brothers influence over conservative policy over the last half century, the dogged determination to abolish taxes, which, as I think you should know, provide funding for the commons, for social services, social purposes, and it's invariably the poor, the brown and black people that are harmed most by the reductions in tax money for the governments at all levels, yes, I can squarely place the blame on the conservatives.

If you want me to go all in on the Progressives, I can.