Politics

[neanderthal]

Brilliance!

I watched on Sunday and nearly choked down whatever I was eating.

[overpowered]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/republican-jesus.jpg

[overpowered]

Ex-Drug Cop Says He & Fellow Cops Lied, Planted Drugs, & Stole Money “Too Many Times to Count”

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/ex-drug-cop-fellow-cops-lied-planted-drugs-stole-money-too-times-count/

[Dicknose]

Is that even news?

[overpowered]

The fact that he's rolling over is.

[overpowered]

https://runwarrenrun.org/
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/01/run-warren-run/384490/

[thesameguy]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/01/run-warren-run/384490/


Suppose the Republicans nominate Jeb Bush, as seems at least plausible. What’s the Clinton message in such a contest? “My husband had a better job creation record than your brother”? She won’t be able to portray him as a candidate who owes everything to his famous last name. She won’t be able to ask questions about how he made so much money so fast without delivering any real world good or service to anybody. She won’t be able to dismiss him as out-of-touch with the realities of everyday life. She can’t say that he’s a throwback to the politics of 20 years ago. Each and every one of those most promising lines of attack on Jeb Bush will be foreclosed to Hillary Clinton, because every one of them will be even more damaging to her than to him.

Ugh.

I don't know anything about Warren, but this just reaffirms my belief that I hate Hillary Clinton. Seems like by the time you're in a position to run for president, you are so compromised in every aspect you're of no actual value to anyone. In my mind, nobody encapsulates this more than Hillary Clinton - I feel like 20 years ago she had interesting things to say but these days she just a bag of mostly water. No wonder all the presidential races of my lifetime are lesser evil competitions.

[21Kid]

Agreed. I think it would be nice if someone like Warren was elected. To change the status-quo... Unfortunately, a lot of people though Obama would do that. :(

[MR2 Fan]

the position of the president doesn't have as much use when congress is completely useless.

I think Warren is great for domestic stuff, but not sure about international relations.

EDIT: Then if the president signs executive orders to bypass congress, OMG Dictator!! blah blah blah

[thesameguy]

Yeah, troof. And when the Congress is dedicated to maliciously fucking you up rather than disagreeing on specific grounds to the benefit of the people, it's even worse. We need to build a wall around DC so those people can never get out. Sorry Jason.

[thesameguy]

I suppose this is only vaguely politics, but insofar as politicians will invariably be the ones making decisions on this it might as well go here:

http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/?mbid=nl_042115


In a particularly spectacular display of corporate delusion, John Deere—the world’s largest agricultural machinery maker —told the Copyright Office that farmers don’t own their tractors. Because computer code snakes through the DNA of modern tractors, farmers receive “an implied license for the life of the vehicle to operate the vehicle.”

[21Kid]

We need politicians in office who are not 'politicians' :|

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not really sure who I'd vote for 2016... Hillary is really not my thing. Warren seems really appealing. Just like Obama was. However, I ain't just gonna fall for that middle class junior minority senator trick from the democrats again. I'm also pretty sure I won't vote for anything Republicans have to offer. Most likely I won't be waste time voting and will just resort to praying.

[overpowered]

When you don't vote, you effectively vote for whomever wins.

[thesameguy]

We need politicians in office who are not 'politicians' :|

My thought on the process is that at a certain "level" (maybe that's Congress, I don't know) politicians must spend x% of their time in communal housing with communal furnishings specified by and paid for by tax payers. When their term is up, they are given a stipend and locked out of holding a position in private industry for some amount of years. Maybe ten, maybe equal to the time they served in political office. We need to remove their personal incentives to make money off being a politician. Your office should not be a gateway to better employment or raising your station. Your office should be limited entirely to the serving of your community and bettering of your population. You should not be able to leverage connections made on the taxpayer's dime into relationships with people that private industry will pay you for. By the time you can work again, nobody you knew and nothing you did will be a perk on your resume, and if you decide that a life of politics is for you then you can enjoy your career living in a 2000 sq ft house and driving a Camry, just like everyone else.

[thesameguy]

When you don't vote, you effectively vote for whomever wins.

Until they give us the option to vote against someone, maybe it doesn't matter. Hmmm... do I support a career politician who will say whatever she thinks the people want to hear, or a Jesus freak who is dedicated to infringing on my rights? I dunno. At least with one of them I know what I'll get. I don't see how rolling the dice is of any quantifiable value.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I suppose this is only vaguely politics, but insofar as politicians will invariably be the ones making decisions on this it might as well go here:

http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/?mbid=nl_042115

I don't understand this... What advantage would John Deere get by not allowing people to 'own' their tractor?

[Crazed_Insanity]

When you don't vote, you effectively vote for whomever wins.

If America has managed to survive W, I'm sure she'll managed to survive any candidate! ;)

Plus, I can certain exercise my power to vote somebody out of office if necessary. Just when something is too new to rate, I'd be guessing anyway.

Personally I think I've wasted my votes on Obama. However, it's not like I'd vote for Republicans anyway even with hindsight... and it's not like if I didn't vote for Obama, then a Republican could win...

Anyway, so if there's really a sense of urgency, sure I'd definitely vote. Just that for now, I'm just too apathetic.

[thesameguy]

Forced obsolescence is the big one. If you can legally prevent people from repairing their devices, you force them to come to you for new ones on a routine basis. It's also possible that - as with so many things - John Deere charges more money for features which are nothing more than software changes. If someone could cause Cheap Tractor to behave like Expensive Tractor, nobody would buy the expensive one. Or that's the theory. In practice, it very rarely works that way. People who tend to find roundabout ways of doing things are people who are not likely to have bought the product in the first place. That's why most of these metrics break down - eg, piracy. I suspect this is just an example of Old Think companies failing to understand modern markets. The same type of thinking that left record companies Apple's bitches, and the same type of thinking that will increasingly likely result in studios working for Netflix. It is to a large degree the same type of thinking that keeps a guy like me who makes darned good money from buying a new car or a prebuilt computer. I'm not interested in owning something I cannot fix. All John Deere is doing is driving people to own old stuff - they just don't understand that. Yet.

[MR2 Fan]

If America has managed to survive W, I'm sure she'll managed to survive any candidate! ;)

Plus, I can certain exercise my power to vote somebody out of office if necessary. Just when something is too new to rate, I'd be guessing anyway.

Personally I think I've wasted my votes on Obama. However, it's not like I'd vote for Republicans anyway even with hindsight... and it's not like if I didn't vote for Obama, then a Republican could win...

Anyway, so if there's really a sense of urgency, sure I'd definitely vote. Just that for now, I'm just too apathetic.

...and this is why the right wingers control congress now

[thesameguy]

...and this is why the right wingers control congress now

I'm not sure that's right. As it turns out, "right wingers" are all corporate shills, and the elections are being paid for. The fight is over the vast majority of unpolarized people, and the only thing that will get them voting in the right, er, left direction is piles of money being spent on advertising to sway them. But what organization with piles of money wants to throw that money at the ideas of "sharing is caring" and "can't we all just get along" and "you do you." Doesn't exist. Organizations want power and they want control and they pay for politicians that will back their play. Enter the modern Republican party. If I everybody I knew who thought the status quo was completely screwed up got together we wouldn't compare to all the people I know who just don't have a strong opinion.

[Crazed_Insanity]

...and this is why the right wingers control congress now

Anyway, for sure I don't have the power to turn Congress to the right and head to a cliff.

Obama gave me a sense of hope, but he dashed it. That's all. If anything, Democrats losing control of congress is also a way for the American people to send a message to Obama.

Still, to be fair, Obama has a tough job. I'm not sure if I can do his job better and I don't want his job.

[MR2 Fan]

Anyway, for sure I don't have the power to turn Congress to the right and head to a cliff.

Obama gave me a sense of hope, but he dashed it. That's all. If anything, Democrats losing control of congress is also a way for the American people to send a message to Obama.

Still, to be fair, Obama has a tough job. I'm not sure if I can do his job better and I don't want his job.

What message were people sending to Obama? "You didn't do what you said, despite the fact that Congress tried to block you every single step of the way?"

[MR2 Fan]

I think voting should be on Saturdays when most people have the day off

[George]

That would only help Republicans, whose voters are at work on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November.

Democrats can stagger over to the polls in their jammies whenever they happen to get up that day. :)

(sorry, coudn't resist!) :D

[thesameguy]

ZING! :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

What message were people sending to Obama? "You didn't do what you said, despite the fact that Congress tried to block you every single step of the way?"

I personally don't really blame Obama for the stuffs strongly blocked by congress. It's the others stuffs... such as foreign policy and financial reform. I don't see much difference between him and W. As if he's bought buy the same lobbyists carrying similar agendas. Particularly I was hoping he can ease polarization, but I think we've gone more and more extreme on both sides.

Anyway, as for the American public's msg, people often take their dissatisfaction of the president by voting in congressmen with opposing party affiliations. It's rare that the same party can have control of both branches...

[speedpimp]

The whole John Deere thing is tied into a much larger scare going around that automakers would use provisions of the DCA to prevent people from working on their own cars.

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11149388_838222716213409_1890365688623434680_n.jpg ?oh=f4159f8781cb640ac124c9cf46bb6f9a&oe=55D4C039

[overpowered]

An oldie but a goodie.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrKftGfN6iE

[neanderthal]

I personally don't really blame Obama for the stuffs strongly blocked by congress. It's the others stuffs... such as foreign policy and financial reform. I don't see much difference between him and W. As if he's bought buy the same lobbyists carrying similar agendas. Particularly I was hoping he can ease polarization, but I think we've gone more and more extreme on both sides.

Anyway, as for the American public's msg, people often take their dissatisfaction of the president by voting in congressmen with opposing party affiliations. It's rare that the same party can have control of both branches...

I agree on the banks and financial institutions; Obama has done fuck all. Or, as near as dammit to fuck all. Although, the Republicans have been efforting to declaw financial reform and blocked Liz Warren from being appointed head of the Consumer Protectinos Whatever Unit, enough that she ran for office. So, I blame him, but i assign blame to the GOP as well.

As for international relations, what's he done that has been so offensive? Stopped the escalation of hostilities with Iran right as he took office. Taken steps towards normalising relations with Cuba, and potentially now, Iran. NOT engaged our soldiers and servicemen in long tours of Syria, Egypt, Libya, etc, everywhere where they had Spring revolutions, didn't engage in Ukraine even while all the Republicans hollered for a new war and pontificated that Putin was a better leader. Well, look what that got them.

So, splain yourself.

[overpowered]

Didn't anyone tell these people that racism is over in America?

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/alleging-voter-fraud-kinloch-refuses-to-swear-in-new-mayor/article_aa5e23e8-4a16-5573-8ff8-9c7897e4a7f2.html

[FaultyMario]

Sooo... a Jorge Ramos, an inflential latino gets on the cover of Time's 100... I thought his speech (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRHl_NJUkZg) was tasteful and exact.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mainly war on terror. I don't see much difference between W and O.

[LHutton]

Mainly war on terror. I don't see much difference between W and O.
I've just realised that since the end of the Cold War we've been almost permanently engaged in hot wars. Amazing how a feasible threat of being nuked kept people slightly more civil, not that there were no wars at all, just less.

Gulf War 1991
Iraqi No Fly Zone - 1991-2003
Croatia - Operation Deny Flight - 1994
Bosnia - Operation Deliberate Force 1995
Iraq - Operation Desert Fox 1998
Invasion of Afghanistan - 2001-2015
Iraq - Operation Southern Focus 2002
Invasion of Iraq - 2003-ISIS (2015)
Mali - Operation Serval - 2013
Airstrikes on ISIS in Syria and Northern Iraq - 2014-2015

That's a lot of war for 25 years and I haven't even included the drone wars in Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Our defense spending is so huge, it's only natural that we'd want to flex our muscle once in a while... I just wish US would fight more just wars than funding bogus BS operations.

After near 8 years in office, war on terror has no end in sight. Even the Osama deal left me feeling a little odd. I'd prefer to see a dead body at least... or some sort of public trial. Not just a late night secret assault and then dump the body in the middle of the ocean and call it job well done? What the fuck was that? Are we the mafia or something?

Financial crisis also could happen again and we'll probably be unable to save it when it happens again...

Further, partisan politics is also getting more polarized than ever.

I know these are tall orders fill, but if Obama could just address 1 of the 3 issues above, I'd be happy with him.

For now, I just feel like my hope was dashed... and I want to believe in something... but I just don't see much changed.

All I can believe at this point is that at least perhaps things could be worse if we had a republican president.

[overpowered]

David Simon: 'There are now two Americas. My country is a horror show'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/08/david-simon-capitalism-marx-two-americas-wire

[thesameguy]

I am only halfway through that but I need to say it's brilliant. So incredibly accurately brilliant.

[MR2 Fan]

Was this posted because he was also talking about Baltimore or was it coincidental?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think that's just coincidental...

But there has always been 2 Americas, no?
White vs colors.
Vote vs those can't vote
Free vs slaves
North vs South
Rich vs poor
Republicans vs Democrats

USA has always been an union of many different things.

Anyway, I think the main reason why capitalism won out over socialism is primarily because it's always easier for us to be greedy than to be compassionate. It's also always much easier for us to be lazy than hard working. It's due to these human natures which resulted in early demise of socialistic nations. However, capitalism ain't gonna last forever either. We need to have a healthy balance of both in order for society to function properly. At the moment we just haven't figure out a way to resolve the two yet...

[overpowered]

Anti-Gay Lawmaker Outed By The Guy He Tried To Pick Up On Grindr

http://reverbpress.com/politics/battlegrounds/randy-boehning-nd-outed-by-grindr-guy/

[overpowered]

A French Muslim girl was kicked out of class because her skirt was too long

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/04/29/a-french-muslim-girl-was-kicked-out-of-class-because-her-skirt-was-too-long/

[overpowered]

A lot of people are praising the Baltimore mom who was smacking her apparently teenage son for being a douchebag in the riots and looting. I'm thinking that if she was a really good mom, that kid wouldn't have been doing that shit in the first place.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLsHP4bae6k

[Tom Servo]

A lot of people are praising the Baltimore mom who was smacking her apparently teenage son for being a douchebag in the riots and looting. I'm thinking that if she was a really good mom, that kid wouldn't have been doing that shit in the first place.

My thinking is that the "smack 'em around" as a goto preventative measure may have something to do with that as well.

[Crazed_Insanity]

A lot of people are praising the Baltimore mom who was smacking her apparently teenage son for being a douchebag in the riots and looting. I'm thinking that if she was a really good mom, that kid wouldn't have been doing that shit in the first place.

So she'd be a better mom to just cry in front of the TV and do nothing?

Anyway, I also read somewhere that now some folks are saying this is child abuse!

Whatever. If I see my kid on TV fucking things up and I know where I can go get him, I'll fucking smack him around and abuse the shit out of him and I wouldn't care what the rest of the world says about me. I can agree that it's difficult to judge whether she's a good mom or not, but just saying I'd do exactly what she did if I were in her shoes.

[overpowered]

Um how did you get that out of what I said? I'm saying that if she was a good mom, she would have raised her kid to not be an asshole. He's practically grown.

[thesameguy]

Yeah, because kids with good parents never act out. Everyone knows that. :up:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Um how did you get that out of what I said? I'm saying that if she was a good mom, she would have raised her kid to not be an asshole. He's practically grown.

She never claimed to be a good mom. It was labeled onto her by the public.

In your eyes, she's a lousy mom for raising up an asshole kid. Fine. let's label her as a lousy mom in the past. I can perhaps agree with that. But who knows, maybe he has his lousy dead beat dad's genes. Maybe she did raise him right and he's just genetically an asshole. Have you considered that?

Anyway, forget the past, in the here and now, she sees her kid fucking up again... and she disciplined him. Is this action good or bad in your eyes OP?

[George]

I didn't think she needed to curse like that, but otherwise bravo to her for getting her son out of harm's way.

http://i.imgur.com/FfXCLdO.jpg

[overpowered]

Is this action good or bad in your eyes OP?As Tom Servo alluded to, hitting your kids might not tend to have the best results and a history of that might have something to do with why he's like that.

Getting him out of the streets is good. Smacking him around, maybe not so much.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Fair enough.

I still think it's better for me to smack my kids around rather than allowing the police or national guard to do it. If somebody's going to do it, it might as well be the parent. In an ideal world we can have cool kids and nice criminals so that parents won't ever have to discipline their kids and police would never have to use any kind of force and everything can still be peaceful and lovely. Too bad we live in the real world.

[overpowered]

DEA warns of stoned rabbits if Utah passes medical marijuana

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/02/dea-warns-of-stoned-rabbits-if-utah-passes-medical-marijuana/

[thesameguy]

Statistically speaking using physical punishment against kids results in the kids having more problems, not fewer. Of course, all the studies that have been done regarding physicality with kids fail to (and cannot realistically) account for other parenting techniques employed at the same time. For example, a parent with limited interpersonal skills might be more prone to employ physicality than a trained counselor, so perhaps the child that is spanked or slapped is already at a developmental disadvantage. Regardless, "studies show" that being physical with kids tends to result in worse kids.

Of course what we don't know is whether this particular lady is a stellar parent who is at wits end, or a crappy parent and this is just business as usual. Snap judgments of extreme circumstances based on one minute cell phone video is shitty.

[neanderthal]

To me, more interesting is that another black man died at the hands of the cops, and the masses are only commenting now that there has been a week of peaceful protests, a week of rioting, and this story. I'm sorry, mom smacking the kid is not the story. The riots are not the story. The protests are not the story.

The story is that another black man was killed by the cops.

Has this just been normalised by the rest of the population? Is it just another day when it happens? I don't get it.

I can't take anyone seriously who would comment on the mom and be quiet on the story. When is enough enough?

[Tom Servo]

I think maybe it's because police killing unarmed black people is something we all pretty much agree is bad, so there's not a lot of discussion around it. The mom, on the other hand, had a lot of different opinions.

I am surprised to hear that six officers are being charged, it'll be interesting to see how the trial goes.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzYymuslGDw

[overpowered]

Fox News host wonders why black people don't riot when cops are shot

http://www.examiner.com/article/fox-news-host-wonders-why-black-people-don-t-riot-when-cops-are-shot

[Drachen596]

you also don't see rioting or even major news stories when a white guy is shot by a black cop.
hell you dont even see it when a white criminal shoots a black cop.

weird right?

[overpowered]

GOP’s Carly Fiorina: Economy is suffering because workers are ‘watching porn all day long’


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFmLbkVciSQ

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/03/gops-carly-fiorina-economy-is-suffering-because-workers-are-watching-all-day-long/

[Tom Servo]

I've been doing it all wrong, I've just been watching the demon sheep from her TV ad.

[Crazed_Insanity]

GOP’s Carly Fiorina: Economy is suffering because workers are ‘watching porn all day long’


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFmLbkVciSQ

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/03/gops-carly-fiorina-economy-is-suffering-because-workers-are-watching-all-day-long/

Ummm, although it's unlikely for me to vote for this chick, but I do think you're totallying twisting the words that came out of her mouth. I thought she's talking about government inefficiencies... and there needs to be pay by performance. Govt workers doing real work should be paid more than people watching porn on the job, not the same.

Am I missing something here?

[thesameguy]

True statement, but based on her actual words it's rather difficult to understand exactly what it was she was trying to communicate:


“We have — how many Inspector General reports do we need to read that say, you know, you can watch porn all day long and get paid exactly the same way as somebody who’s trying to do their job?”

[thesameguy]

That page had a link to this page:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/kansas-waitress-refuses-tip-from-budget-slashing-gov-sam-brownback-tip-the-schools-instead/

I enjoy this:


According to Hough — who said she believes education is the “foundation” of a progressive country — the governor still gave her a tip, using the customer copy to leave her 10 percent.

10% tip - what a man. "I hear that you'd like me to give some money to the schools, but here's what I'm going to do, I'm going to not only ignore your request but also leave you a borderline insulting tip too." :up:

[MR2 Fan]

Soon we'll have to make a list of GOPers NOT running for president...but hey, this is what having absolutely no leadership in a party gets you.

Who's in charge? Everybody and nobody.

[speedpimp]

That page had a link to this page:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/kansas-waitress-refuses-tip-from-budget-slashing-gov-sam-brownback-tip-the-schools-instead/

I enjoy this:



10% tip - what a man. "I hear that you'd like me to give some money to the schools, but here's what I'm going to do, I'm going to not only ignore your request but also leave you a borderline insulting tip too." :up:

TBH if he really wanted to leave an insulting tip he'd had left a penny.

[thesameguy]

True, true. I just find it sad & typical that someone not hurting for money in any way leaves something substandard for someone else. Very "I'm not poor, and you shouldn't be either." Especially in this day and age, what with FB and everything, he should have taken the opportunity to do the right thing - either by leaving her a reasonable tip, or a note saying he would do exactly as asked, or both. A simple "I will, thank you" scribbled on the receipt would have been great. Instead he took the opportunity to further demonstrate his idiocy, as if his poor state wasn't evidence enough.

[MR2 Fan]

"Mr. Brownback, you've been able to vilify and demonize yourself to the reasonable populous of your state by cutting education funding and other important public service sectors....so I have to ask...when are you officially starting your 2016 presidential campaign?"

[MR2 Fan]

That page had a link to this page:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/kansas-waitress-refuses-tip-from-budget-slashing-gov-sam-brownback-tip-the-schools-instead/

I enjoy this:



10% tip - what a man. "I hear that you'd like me to give some money to the schools, but here's what I'm going to do, I'm going to not only ignore your request but also leave you a borderline insulting tip too." :up:

But looking on the bright side, she is quite good looking and could get a modeling gig out of this :p

[MR2 Fan]

http://gawker.com/governor-vows-to-defend-texas-against-insane-imaginary-1702015620?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_facebook&utm_source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

[overpowered]

Floriduh, where you get 15 years for dry humping on the beach:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/couple-faces-15-years-behind-bars-after-grandma-records-them-having-on-florida-beach/

but shooting and killing an unarmed teenager is OK.

[21Kid]

How do such crazy people get elected? :smh:

[LHutton]

Floriduh, where you get 15 years for dry humping on the beach:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/couple-faces-15-years-behind-bars-after-grandma-records-them-having-on-florida-beach/

but shooting and killing an unarmed teenager is OK.
Florida must use Tara cards to decide sentencing.

[21Kid]

I keep forgetting if this is the politics thread, or the epic fail thread...

Mike Huckabee kicks off his 2016 bid with a violation of campaign finance law (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/05/05/mike-huckabee-kicks-off-his-2016-bid-with-a-violation-of-campaign-finance-law/)

[Crazed_Insanity]

The guy was just making a joke and that's worthy of a news article? ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Floriduh, where you get 15 years for dry humping on the beach:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/couple-faces-15-years-behind-bars-after-grandma-records-them-having-on-florida-beach/

but shooting and killing an unarmed teenager is OK.

I'm not really a republican conservative floridian and hate to defend them, but in all fairness, can the 2 incidents be compared?

I do agree the punishment is quite harsh and ridiculous, but to convict the dry humping is easy... especially with a video recording. Where as the shooting of a teen isn't quite as clear cut. A slight reasonable doubt would be enough to let a murderer go. That's how our legal system is designed to be. Innocent until 'proven' guilty. Dry humping video gave easy proof. If an unarmed teen were blatantly shot on the beach with recordings and eye witnesses, I'm sure it wouldn't be OK.

Anyway, I hope people can try to not continue to portray people on 'the other side' as stupid low life sub-humans. With this kind of attitdue unchecked, I guess another Civil War would be coming soon... :smh:

Don't get me wrong, I know the people of other side are behaving the same way toward liberals. I just hope people can stop that. If they're truly Christians, at least try to ask themselves what would Jesus see? Rather than looking down on liberals as satan himself... sigh... This political polarization is just getting worse and worse...

[Freude am Fahren]

I keep forgetting if this is the politics thread, or the epic fail thread...

Mike Huckabee kicks off his 2016 bid with a violation of campaign finance law (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/05/05/mike-huckabee-kicks-off-his-2016-bid-with-a-violation-of-campaign-finance-law/)

Just goes to show how absurd the law is. Aside from the asking for the money part, if he suggests that someone is even giving him or his campaign a million bucks it's illegal, but you can give to the PAC's because they're "independent." It's all a load of horseshit.

What's more, that PAC has to be independent of Huckabee's campaign. "To the extent that he's implying that the money is given to him or will help him, that undermines the concept of independence," Noble said. Huckabee didn't say to give him the money, which would suggest a coordination that could violate the law. But he'd certainly be happy to have people give to Pursuing America's Greatness, the PAC formed to bolster his candidacy.

"It's what everyone knows — that giving money to the super PAC is the same as giving the money to him," Noble added. "The legal fiction is saying, oh, you're not giving me the money. But in this unguarded moment, he actually spoke what the truth is." Any candidate is happy to have millions of dollars flow into PACs that are supporting them.

[21Kid]

To me, what's ridiculous is that we continue to pretend that these SuperPACs aren't set up to directly fund the candidates. Everyone knows what they are for. But for some reason, everyone pretends that they are independent of the candidates.

They should either get rid of the law completely and allow unlimited contributions, or don't allow unlimited campaign funding at all.

[overpowered]

Abstinence only education keeps doing this, but idiots still cling to it.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/1-in-15-high-school-students-have-Chlamydia-at-6240944.php

[thesameguy]

Is that really what the article is about?


The high school has three days of sex education in the fall semester for students, with the curriculum including abstinence.

It just says the curriculum includes abstinence, not that it is the only concept discussed. I think the more likely culprit is limiting the subject to three days of education.

[neanderthal]

I'm not really a republican conservative floridian and hate to defend them, but in all fairness, can the 2 incidents be compared?

I do agree the punishment is quite harsh and ridiculous, but to convict the dry humping is easy... especially with a video recording. Where as the shooting of a teen isn't quite as clear cut. A slight reasonable doubt would be enough to let a murderer go. That's how our legal system is designed to be. Innocent until 'proven' guilty. Dry humping video gave easy proof. If an unarmed teen were blatantly shot on the beach with recordings and eye witnesses, I'm sure it wouldn't be OK.

Anyway, I hope people can try to not continue to portray people on 'the other side' as stupid low life sub-humans. With this kind of attitdue unchecked, I guess another Civil War would be coming soon... :smh:

Don't get me wrong, I know the people of other side are behaving the same way toward liberals. I just hope people can stop that. If they're truly Christians, at least try to ask themselves what would Jesus see? Rather than looking down on liberals as satan himself... sigh... This political polarization is just getting worse and worse...

What wasn't so clear cut? He profiled, stalked, chased, cornered Trayvon, then shot him.

There's nothing unclear about that.

[neanderthal]

To me, what's ridiculous is that we continue to pretend that these SuperPACs aren't set up to directly fund the candidates. Everyone knows what they are for. But for some reason, everyone pretends that they are independent of the candidates.

They should either get rid of the law completely.

Fixed

[LHutton]

Is that really what the article is about?



It just says the curriculum includes abstinence, not that it is the only concept discussed. I think the more likely culprit is limiting the subject to three days of education.
I think shit just happens TBH and the over-availability of porn and the nigh on impossible task of preventing kids accessing it is probably the main culprit.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What wasn't so clear cut? He profiled, stalked, chased, cornered Trayvon, then shot him.

There's nothing unclear about that.

There was no video recording of the incident.

Just as cops are likely never be held responsible for anything unless we have videos.

Any reasonable doubt is enough to make a case not so clear cut.

[LHutton]

The problem is that the law allows people to claim self defence even if they pursue and confront someone who hasn't committed a crime, as long as there isn't any evidence that the level of force they used wasn't necessary. In theory they could even start the physical altercation and so long as it can't be proven that the victim didn't use a level of force justifying lethal force as defence, then the shooter still gets off. The only thing clear cut is that that particular law needs changing.

[LHutton]

Meanwhile, the level of sophistication available to rogue militias and terrorists is on the rise as a result of foreign policy.


The Libyan Army has reportedly downed a MiG- 25 plane belonging to the Dawn of Libya militia in Zintan, Wednesday. The plane allegedly bombed Zintan airport earlier in the day. It was shot down as it was flying over the north-west of the city. A crowd formed around the aircraft. They stood on the burnt wreckage and scrawled graffiti on the MiG’s wing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSuiEigeulk

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11148443_10153279206014090_1891128190438491527_n.j pg?oh=a12c361afeaa7a72b3576e57e9b7b017&oe=55DCDF24

[Crazed_Insanity]

The problem is that the law allows people to claim self defence even if they pursue and confront someone who hasn't committed a crime, as long as there isn't any evidence that the level of force they used wasn't necessary. In theory they could even start the physical altercation and so long as it can't be proven that the victim didn't use a level of force justifying lethal force as defence, then the shooter still gets off. The only thing clear cut is that that particular law needs changing.

I guess I can definitely agree that Florida has stupid laws. Just as dry humping on public beach shouldn't result in 15yrs in prison.

[speedpimp]

Nebraska woman files lawsuit against all homosexuals on behalf and judge throws it out. (http://omaha.suntimes.com/oma-news/oma-politics-government/7/107/117641/federal-judge-strikes-down-suit-against-all-homosexuals/)

[Freude am Fahren]

I'm not so sure the humping was dry, feminine lubrication issues aside.

[overpowered]

Even so, 15 years and registered sex offender status? Seriously?

Consensual sex should not be a felony. Sure, doing it in public is rude and inappropriate. I can see giving them a fine. If it was actual coitus, maybe even a fine in the 4 figure range. Dry humping shouldn't be more than low 3 figures.

People get lighter sentences even when they are convicted of killing people. This is so far out of proportion that it's beyond ridiculous.

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11161343_1105191206174192_5037511547050258993_n.jp g?oh=88d23cfc695f1320e785b52b76808196&oe=55DF205B

[MR2 Fan]

and here I thought the U.S. Military could do no wrong....but now they're the enemy because the government is telling them to do something....which is exactly who the U.S. Military follows orders from............:erm:

[Drachen596]

Speaking of Florida laws... Did you know Cohabitation is illegal there? yep illegal to live with someone of the opposite sex unless you are married or related.

the main reason i know of this law is from when i was a tax preparer.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/31/us-usa-florida-cohabitation-iduskbn0mr2ni20150331

[LHutton]

Even so, 15 years and registered sex offender status? Seriously?

Consensual sex should not be a felony. Sure, doing it in public is rude and inappropriate. I can see giving them a fine. If it was actual coitus, maybe even a fine in the 4 figure range. Dry humping shouldn't be more than low 3 figures.

People get lighter sentences even when they are convicted of killing people. This is so far out of proportion that it's beyond ridiculous.
I'm nearly sure that public urination can result in sex offender status in some US states.

[JoshInKC]

Almost happened to my cousin.
He was drunk and pissing behind a dumpster in an alley in the bar district of his college town. Fortunately, his lawyer got it knocked down to public intoxication or something like that.

[LHutton]

What makes me laugh is the effort UK police put into fining people for public urination on weekend nights, meanwhile dogs shit everywhere everyday, and they don't care because it's a council matter. Now from a public interest point of view, I'd prefer they focused on the dog shit.

[Crazed_Insanity]

But people really should know better, right? Stupid laws and sentencing aside, people really should know better than to piss, shit and hump like dogs in public places.

[thesameguy]

People should also know how to drive, how to vaccinate, how to eat properly, how to exercise, how to moderate things like watching TV, and how to properly make mac & cheese. But most people, it turns out, don't.

[Crazed_Insanity]

True, but I'm talking about our most basic instinctive urges here! :p

[thesameguy]

I don't really draw a line. People should be able to look at a decision point and make a determination at least about which path results in the least amount of trouble, and hopefully which path results in the best outcome for those around them. Many people fail at the former, most people fail at the latter. Statistically speaking, the human race isn't very good at much.

[speedpimp]

More Florida wackiness, Parents arrested for giving their daughters(13 & 14) drugs(including coke) as a bargaining tool (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-couple-accused-giving-kids-drugs-bargaining-tool-n355356).
High school principal arrested for smoking weed with a student. (http://www.local10.com/news/florida-principal-arrested-in-a-car-with-student-marijuana/32886532)

[neanderthal]

People should also know how to drive, how to vaccinate, how to eat properly, how to exercise, how to moderate things like watching TV, and how to properly make mac & cheese. But most people, it turns out, don't.

You forgot take hot coffee from McDonalds without spilling it on themselves and complaining that it's too hot.

[Tom Servo]

That woman got a bum rap. There's a This American Life about it, its worth a listen.

[JoshInKC]

I could be misremembering it, but apparently the hot coffee thing wasn't as stupid as it seems on the surface. IIRC, the coffee was just a couple of degrees below boiling and the woman required, or very nearly required skin grafts all over her lap and genitals. Apparently, there are photos of it out there from the lawsuit and they are horrific.

Had a conversation about it with a girl who'd covered it in a business law ethics course or something. She was saying that while we live in a super frivolous, overly litigious society, the McDonalds coffee woman is not a good example of it at all.

[Drachen596]

How about the cop currently suing starbucks over spilled coffee?

[overpowered]

The optimal brewing point for coffee is actually in the mid 190F's, which is not all that far below boiling point. Also those of us who've dealt with coffee trying to achieve optimal temperatures for brewing in french presses know that water at those temperatures drops in temperature rapidly.

Holding a fresh cup of coffee between your legs is stupid and asking for trouble. People pretending that the lawsuit is not frivolous are gullible.

[Tom Servo]

Well, it's good to know that "making coffee with a french press" knowledge trumps "has actually heard/read something about the case" on this one. I feel quite gullible.

[JoshInKC]

The optimal brewing point for coffee is actually in the mid 190F's, which is not all that far below boiling point. Also those of us who've dealt with coffee trying to achieve optimal temperatures for brewing in french presses know that water at those temperatures drops in temperature rapidly.
This is true. However, your 195* brewing temperature sits for what, like 4 minutes while it steeps? That gives it a chance to cool down considerably (especially considering that cooling curves are exponential) before you would ever drink it. Also, hers was in an insulated styrofoam cup, where most of the coffee presses I've had and seen tend to be fairly thin walled glass which is going to allow your press coffee to cool even faster.

[overpowered]

True, which is why it's stupid to hold a cup of fresh coffee between your legs. I've read the descriptions of the case. Expecting coffee not to be hot is foolish.

[MR2 Fan]

I'm glad I don't drink coffee

[overpowered]

At about 3:16, idiot actually says that Obama has faced almost no criticism:

http://samuel-warde.com/2013/11/fox-weve-gone-six-years-almost-criticism-president/

[thesameguy]

This is true. However, your 195* brewing temperature sits for what, like 4 minutes while it steeps? That gives it a chance to cool down considerably (especially considering that cooling curves are exponential) before you would ever drink it. Also, hers was in an insulated styrofoam cup, where most of the coffee presses I've had and seen tend to be fairly thin walled glass which is going to allow your press coffee to cool even faster.

It is quite a bit worse than that. If you read the facts on the case, corporate policy at McD's was to maintain brewed coffee at 190 degrees F, which is about 25 degrees F higher than virtually every other place that serves coffee, including Denny's and Starbucks. Coffee that most people drink is about 50 degrees cooler, around 140. Court documents show that McD's had received literally 1000 complaints about people who had received similar but less serious injuries and that McDonald's had not once evaluated a) the safety of serving 190 degree coffee in Styrofoam cups nor b) compared the temperature of their coffee to other competitive servers. When you are doing something outside the norm, have not evaluated the safety of doing that thing outside the norm, do not warn people that you're doing it, and do not take any action whatsoever based on complaints then you deserve whatever is coming to you. McDonald's was serving drinks that they admitted nobody could actually, safely ingest so the point of maintaining coffee at that temperature - that no other company felt was necessary - is a seriously questionable practice.

The lady got a bum rap in the press, and the details are critical. There is a reason it's taught in business ethics and law classes and there are more than one documentary on it. It very nicely illustrates the line between doing something that is academically correct and doing something that is socially correct.

[neanderthal]

True, which is why it's stupid to hold a cup of fresh coffee between your legs. I've read the descriptions of the case. Expecting coffee not to be hot is foolish.

This, pretty much, for me.

Sure, the coffee was hot, but McDonalds didn't spill the coffee on her, she did.

[Rikadyn]

oddly enough this was posted on Reddit today:

the said pics (http://i.imgur.com/pTGP7Se.jpg)

[Tom Servo]

Expecting coffee not to be hot is foolish. Expecting coffee not to cause what Rikadyn just posted is not. Seriously.

[thesameguy]

This, pretty much, for me.

Sure, the coffee was hot, but McDonalds didn't spill the coffee on her, she did.

Yes, but the flaw in that argument is that if she'd held any other coffee from any other place between her legs and spilled it, it would have hurt but she wouldn't have received instantaneous skin damage. The product manager from McDonald's testified that he was aware that his abnormally hot coffee would cause such damage, he knew that other places' coffee would not, knew that his has caused damage in the past, and that no human being could withstand or utilize the coffee as McDonald's served it.

There is a thing in law called comparative fault - when two parties in a situation share blame (someone made a substandard product, someone made a dumb decision) the jury weighs the variables and assigns some portion of the fault to each party. In this case, both parties shared blame.

To suggest McDonald's had no fault in the matter would suggest that any time a product includes any risks that companies are no under requirements to minimize or disclose them if they are unexpected or unusual, or that companies are under no obligation to make the safest product possible that doesn't compromise the end product. McDonald's made an unnecessarily hot beverage and disregarded the injuries that resulted until one of them was so severe a jury fined them mountains of cash. Same thing happened when Ford disregarded Explorer rollovers. Sometimes cars crash, but that doesn't give Ford an excuse to make an SUV unnecessarily prone to it. Everyone makes mistakes, not every product is perfect. But when a company doesn't address the problems and people keep getting hurt that's wrong. That is what McDonald's did. They made an unnecessarily dangerous product.

[JoshInKC]

Expecting coffee not to be hot is foolish. Expecting coffee not to cause what Rikadyn just posted is not. Seriously.
Yeah, jesus.

[neanderthal]

Yes, but the flaw in that argument is that if she'd held any other coffee from any other place between her legs and spilled it, it would have hurt but she wouldn't have received instantaneous skin damage. The product manager from McDonald's testified that he was aware that his abnormally hot coffee would cause such damage, he knew that other places' coffee would not, knew that his has caused damage in the past, and that no human being could withstand or utilize the coffee as McDonald's served it.

There is a thing in law called comparative fault - when two parties in a situation share blame (someone made a substandard product, someone made a dumb decision) the jury weighs the variables and assigns some portion of the fault to each party. In this case, both parties shared blame.

To suggest McDonald's had no fault in the matter would suggest that any time a product includes any risks that companies are no under requirements to minimize or disclose them if they are unexpected or unusual, or that companies are under no obligation to make the safest product possible that doesn't compromise the end product. McDonald's made an unnecessarily hot beverage and disregarded the injuries that resulted until one of them was so severe a jury fined them mountains of cash. Same thing happened when Ford disregarded Explorer rollovers. Sometimes cars crash, but that doesn't give Ford an excuse to make an SUV unnecessarily prone to it. Everyone makes mistakes, not every product is perfect. But when a company doesn't address the problems and people keep getting hurt that's wrong. That is what McDonald's did. They made an unnecessarily dangerous product.

I don't disagree with you at all. I still apportion most of the blame on the consumer.

However, even in the Ford Explorer/ Firestone saga, the vast majority of tire failures was in vehicles who's owners failed to maintain the recommended air pressure. Ford and Firestone both were unable to replicate the problems until the tires were severely under inflated.

Anything, mishandled, can be dangerous.

[thesameguy]

I think you may want to recheck the facts about the Ford thing. All the evidence showed that the failures were from a specific run of tires made by Firestone during a specific period of time (when there happened to be strikes at Firestone). Ford specified an abnormally low tire pressure (26psi) to reduce the instances of rollovers in the Explorer and the particular run of Firestone tires did not hold up. Other tires equipped - whether other brands or Firestones made during a different period - on the Explorer didn't have the problem.

Whether the fault is really Ford's for specifying a dumb ass pressure to correct their design flaw or Firestone for making a substandard tire is probably moot, but it wasn't inattentive consumers. *Even* if you don't buy into the facts as they came out in court, you can't suggest that Explorer consumers are any more inattentive than other SUV drivers, but the instances of Explorer rollovers on those particular tires are exponentially higher than any other SUV on any other tire.

The commonalities with the McDonald's case are pretty stunning. Both cases about corporations making abnormally shitty products and not addressing the shortcomings in any way even after the issues were brought to their attention. It's not right, and if it wasn't for crazy jury verdicts there would be no incentive for them to not do it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just out of curiosity, why was McD so adamant about keeping their coffees at abnormally hot temperatures? Surely keeping coffees extra hot cost them more. Why would they insist on higher energy cost?

I can understand Ford and Firestone didn't want to admit or correct their engineering mistakes... because it'd cost them more to reengineer and recall them..., but for McD, what was keeping them from lower energy cost? Stupidity? Or perhaps marketing figured out this is how to make cheap coffee taste good... by burning off people's taste buds? ;)

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11139778_1107147985978514_301050897264586483_n.jpg ?oh=70c6562bf1f5b7c43155de12f4ae42cb&oe=55BFC8B4

[thesameguy]

Just out of curiosity, why was McD so adamant about keeping their coffees at abnormally hot temperatures? Surely keeping coffees extra hot cost them more. Why would they insist on higher energy cost?

Totally unclear, and that factored in with the jury's decision, as reported by jurors after the case. McDonald's opinion was that they served billions of cups of coffee at 190 degrees and only 1000 people got hurt. That of course irked the jury - doesn't matter whether it's 9 out of 10 or 1 in a million, if you have the opportunity to prevent injury, why would you at least not look into it? No answer. McDonald's had never researched the effects of coffee temperatures or done market research to determine whether a lower temperature would upset people or reduce profits or anything. The response to people getting hurt was literally "Fuck you, your numbers are insignificant." I'm sure it's to find the quotes by the product manager. His responses are almost chilling.


I can understand Ford and Firestone didn't want to admit or correct their engineering mistakes... because it'd cost them more to reengineer and recall them..., but for McD, what was keeping them from lower energy cost? Stupidity? Or perhaps marketing figured out this is how to make cheap coffee taste good... by burning off people's taste buds? ;)

Sadly, I agree with you. It sucks seeing the logic of Ford's number crunching but McDonald's position is so weird it's indefensible.

Way back when I used to be very much in favor of "stupid people getting what they deserved," but the more I've been exposed to these types of cases and the more I've taken an interest in them it almost always comes back to the same thing: The consumers are dumb, but the companies making the products are somewhere between dumb and morally bankrupt. There is one very famous case here in Sacramento where a radio station held a contest "Hold your wee for a Wii" and they had people come to the station with the goal of drinking water, and the person who peed last would win the Wii. One of the contestants died from dilutional hyponatremia. My first reaction was, "Well, she's stupid for drinking that much water." And the facts in the case come out - the DJs on the radio asserted repeatedly it was safe, when medical professionals called in to say the contest was dangerous the DJs blocked those calls from the room where the contest was being held. Then the contest was running too long so the changed the rules and required people start drinking more water on a timed basis rather than just not peeing.

The chick who died probably should have come to the conclusion the situation was dangerous and she didn't. Bad on her. But the radio station asserted it was safe, prevented contestants from hearing from professionals that it wasn't, and then went so far as to increase the risk factor of the contest exponentially. It's absolutely retarded. They had three *specific*, documented opportunities to do the right thing and each juncture they did the opposite and some woman died. WTF? Indefensible.

Ten years ago I'd hear about some crazy verdict and assume some idiot was being rewarded for being dumb. But you know, every single time when the facts are examined it's far from that cut & dry. These are verdicts renders from juries made up by diverse people with diverse backgrounds, not anti-corporation shills. Defense has every opportunity to choose anti-consumer, anti-lawsuit, pro-business jurors just like prosecution has the opportunity to choose whiny sympathizers. When these guys get together, examine the facts, and render some massive verdict, basic logic dictates some fact pattern caused these two groups of people to come together. I've just never seen a case where a company examined complaints, addressed them even a reasonably defensible point, and *then* a jury rendered some huge verdict. It's always the same thing. Every time I look, it's because some giant company treated people like numbers and threw some of them into the Acceptable Losses category. That makes people mad, that is what wins big verdicts every time.

[overpowered]

Another thug with a badge. At least nobody got seriously hurt this time:

http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/videos/watch-womanizing-cop-caught-feeling-on-woman-arrests-guy-who-tries-to-film-it-video/

[overpowered]

The many problems with Seymour Hersh's Osama bin Laden conspiracy theory (http://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden)

[JoshInKC]

... the more I've been exposed to these types of cases and the more I've taken an interest in them it almost always comes back to the same thing: The consumers are dumb, but the companies making the products are somewhere between dumb and morally bankrupt.
:up:
I'm going to keep this line in my back pocket for future usage

[speedpimp]

So George Zimmerman gets road rage, waves his gun around and gets shoot, his days are numbered. Here (http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/11/us/florida-george-zimmerman-shooting/index.html?sr=fb051115zimmermanwound230pStoryLink) .

[George]

I always wondered what kind of reception Zimmerman would get in prison. Maybe one day we'll read about it.

[speedpimp]

If he does live long enough to see The Big House I'm pretty sure he'll learn in short order why it's called "The Pokey".

[overpowered]

Ron Paul: Black lawmakers oppose war because they want the money for food stamps

http://www.salon.com/2015/02/24/ron_paul_congressional_black_caucus_opposes_war_be cause_they_want_to_spend_money_on_food_stamps/

Apparently he forgot that he was anti-war too, though for different reasons. Of course his explanation of their reasons is disgraceful.

[thesameguy]

*I* want the money for foodstamps.

[neanderthal]

I think you may want to recheck the facts about the Ford thing. All the evidence showed that the failures were from a specific run of tires made by Firestone during a specific period of time (when there happened to be strikes at Firestone). Ford specified an abnormally low tire pressure (26psi) to reduce the instances of rollovers in the Explorer and the particular run of Firestone tires did not hold up. Other tires equipped - whether other brands or Firestones made during a different period - on the Explorer didn't have the problem.

Whether the fault is really Ford's for specifying a dumb ass pressure to correct their design flaw or Firestone for making a substandard tire is probably moot, but it wasn't inattentive consumers. *Even* if you don't buy into the facts as they came out in court, you can't suggest that Explorer consumers are any more inattentive than other SUV drivers, but the instances of Explorer rollovers on those particular tires are exponentially higher than any other SUV on any other tire.

The commonalities with the McDonald's case are pretty stunning. Both cases about corporations making abnormally shitty products and not addressing the shortcomings in any way even after the issues were brought to their attention. It's not right, and if it wasn't for crazy jury verdicts there would be no incentive for them to not do it.

As i recall, it was a combination problem, as the fault didn't occur with Toyota T-100s which had the same Firestone Wilderness AT tire, or with Explorers that had the Goodyear Wrangler tire. And the faults only manifested themselves in the lower latitude states with warmer weather. You're right about it being a specific run of tires from a specific factory, I don't recall the exact DOT number sequence, but trust me, I sold many a Michelin LTX M/S and A/T because of that recall.

Ford's culpability was in designing a wide vehicle of the narrow chassis of the Ford Ranger. This produced a tendency to roll over in certain situations and Ford lowered the air pressure to ameliorate that. However, they had already spec'd a tire from Firestone, and didn't tell Firestone about the lower air pressure, who then didn't make any changes to the tire. Remember, in general, the more air pressure a tire has, the higher its load capacities. Congruent with that, the lower the air pressure, the lower the load capacity. This will be important as you'll see later.

Firestone, built the tire that Ford spec'd, before Ford lowered the air pressure. There were defects from a particular factory although that tire was made at several different ones. And only between specific dates.

The consumers though, IMO bear the brunt of the blame. The problem (tire blowing up and delaminating while driving, causing the car to roll over) would usually only happen in fully loaded vehicles, as in when a family was going on vacation. Usually on long trips. And only in the warm weather states.
The fault; low air pressure. That simple.


So, in lowering the recommended air pressure, Ford reduced the tendency of the vehicle to roll over in certain manouvers. But that lowered the load capacity. Family in SUV going to South Florida for vacation, four/ five people, luggage, full tank of gas, stuff on the roof rack maybe. High center of gravity. Underinflated tire, carrying a full load, on a long drive in a hot climate= tire overheats, tire blows up.

*Sources; multiple Michelin and Bridgestone/ Firestone reps over many visits and at several ride and drives etc. The Michelin rep was the one who actually put it in the simple format that put everything in context. The Bridgestone reps mostly said there was no fault in the tires although some had a particular defect. Basically they toed the party line and parroted the corporate message for the most part. The Michelin rep told me that they were only able to recreate the fault under a very specific set of circumstances, mainly with very low air pressure; just over 10psi. That is a big drop from the 26psi that Ford specified for that first and second gen Explorer.

We frequently saw cars come in with air pressure in the teens prior to that Ford/ Firestone saga. It was the nexus for the TPMS requirement in vehicles. It wasnt all cars, just a surprising number of cars.

Been selling tires since 1997. And while I don't work in the Tire Center anymore (last two years,) they frequently call me if someone is sick, on vacation, they're swamped, etc. I have a manager in my dept that jokes that i'm a ghost for the number of times he sees me. In this calendar year i've worked two months on and off in the tire and we;re only in mid May. Mostly because I worked six weeks straight when one guy was on paternity leave and another went home to the Phillipines just before or after.

[thesameguy]

The fault; low air pressure. That simple.

I'm afraid I just don't see it that way. Low air pressure was clearly the issue, but it can't be realistically blamed on the consumer. The problems only occurred on specific tires, not all Explorers and specifically not those that had tires replaced. Unless you are suggesting that people who coincidentally ended up with these specific tires also were abnormally inattentive to tire pressure, your position doesn't hold water. Specific tires on a specific car lead to a specific problem. That is not the fault of the consumer. That is the fault of shitty tires on a shitty vehicle. Whether it's Ford or Firestone I don't much care, but there is no rational way to pin it on the owners. Read the court documents, don't base your opinion on what a tire rep told you.

Edit: Hell, read the Wikipedia page. It also clearly illustrates there was no coincidence, no "dumb people from the south" underinflating tires. Ford, Firestone, and the NHTSA all came to the same conclusion. Specific car, specific tires, specific failure.

[neanderthal]

* Nota bene.

I've over simplified in saying that the lower spec'd air pressure lowered the load capacity.

What i'm talking about is really the margin of error that engineers account for when designing a product. If the recommended air pressure of a tire is 32psi and its rated to carry 900lbs at that air pressure, the true load capacity might actually be 1000lbs. Even if 900lbs is what is indicatated on the sidewall.
That margin of error is severely depleted when you then inflate that tire to only 26psi, and the consumer doesn't check their air pressure for a long time.

So please, don't misunderstand what i am saying.

[thesameguy]

I totally understand how air pressure affects load carrying, but I don't understand how you can assert that consumer behavior had anything to do with Ford's design or Firestone's design. There just isn't a realistic scenario where all the dumb consumers ended up with a specific truck and a specific tire. Dumb consumers are everywhere, running underinflated or overinflated or poorly maintained tires. But there was an abnormal, even scary-high instance of failures with this specific combo. Ford documented it (and covered it up), the Senate documented it, and NHTSA documented it. That suggests something about this combo was less good than every other vehicle on the road. Not some, EVERY. That is a substandard product. That is a product that needs remedial measures, not blame laid on the consumers who expected at least an average quality product.

Things here unfolded *exactly* the same as at McDonald's. People complained to Ford and to Firestone, and they both did nothing. Actually, they did one worse and buried hundreds of complaints. It's just wrong. If you are given notice that your product is causing problems at a higher than normal rate and you take no steps to correct it, you get whatever is coming to you.

[neanderthal]

I'm afraid I just don't see it that way. Low air pressure was clearly the issue, but it can't be realistically blamed on the consumer.

But the consumer is who is responsible for their tire pressure after the vehicle has been purchased. I agree that BOTH Ford and Firestone had culpability. Ford for making a vehicle prone to rollover and just lowering the air pressure to compensate. Firestone for the Decatur plant and it's problems, but also for not reengineering the tire to be more stable at the lower air pressure. But part of that is Fords fault.


The problems only occurred on specific tires, not all Explorers and specifically not those that had tires replaced.

Yes. I am aware. I am also aware the Toyota T-100s that had the same tire, with the same problematic DOT code, DIDN'T have the same problem, suggesting it wasn't just the vehicle.
And that the problems only happened on those vehicles who's tires had not been replaced points to a specific set of tires. None of which contradicts anything I have said and continue to say namely, that Ford, Firestone, AND the consumers all had a hand in the problem. I'm not absolving Ford, nor Firestone, NOR the consumers.


Unless you are suggesting that people who coincidentally ended up with these specific tires also were abnormally inattentive to tire pressure, your position doesn't hold water.

I am not suggesting that, but it does hold water. Because in any population of people you're going to get those who maintain their vehicles properly and those like my mum who only care that it takes them from A to B. But, for most of the entire population of Goodyear Wrangler tires that also came on those Ford Explorers, the same fault was hardly ever found. Indicating that it wasn't just the tire either. Surely the Goodyear driving owners were not a specific subset of users who were more rigorous about their auto maintenance. After all the tires were installed somewhat randomly. Few Explorers in those years had the standard 225/70R15 Firestone Wilderness tires, and only a small percentage had the optional 255/70R16 tire. Most were shod with the problematic 235/75R15



Specific tires on a specific car lead to a specific problem. That is not the fault of the consumer. That is the fault of shitty tires on a shitty vehicle. Whether it's Ford or Firestone I don't much care, but there is no rational way to pin it on the owners. Read the court documents, don't base your opinion on what a tire rep told you.

I agree. However, there were many instances of vehicles that had the problematic tire that didn't blow up and delaminate, indicating that it wasn't just the tires, or just the car. Which is why I, and other people, postulate that it was a third factor, namely consumer error, encompassing overloading to lax vehicle maintenance, especially as regards the air pressure. When I specifically asked why that wasn't brought up the response was "because when you have a family that just had a horrific accident and lost a loved one or several loved ones, you don't blame them. You don't blame the victim in that kind of high profile, high visibility case." There are testimonials in courts and also before Congress where low air pressure and the resulting overload and heat are specifically mentioned. Almost never in the consumer end (remember what I said about blaming the victims,) but on the specifications from Ford. Both sides pointed the finger squarely at each other. And both should get a share of the blame, but their share is not all of it. There are more than a few instances of experts testifying to the consumer side of the air pressure issue.


Edit: Hell, read the Wikipedia page. It also clearly illustrates there was no coincidence, no "dumb people from the south" underinflating tires. Ford, Firestone, and the NHTSA all came to the same conclusion. Specific car, specific tires, specific failure.

The Wikipedia page is way too abridged and dumbed down.

My reference was in no way meant to disparage those in the south, or their intelligence, but to point out that most of the failures occurred in hotter weather states than cold weather states. Which is why i insinuated that the low air pressure coupled with the overloaded conditions, created heat and was frequently the proverbial straw.

Not all Ford Explorers with all tires exhibited this problem= not entirely an Explorer problem.
Not all cars equipped with this tire exhibited the fault= not entirely a tire problem.
Preponderance of rollovers and blowouts happening in lower latitude/ warmer states= temps a factor.
Many vehicles often loaded with full family. Few incidents with single occupant= load and therefore tire overheating a factor.

Remember, the Ford Explorer's load capacity was modest. Overloading it and underinflating the tires did the same thing. Heat. Delamination. Blowout. Accident.

More good reading. (http://www.stern.nyu.edu/om/faculty/zemel/ford_firestone.pdf)


"This was done as a "customer service" issue in hot climates where the tires might be more vulnerable to problems."

http://lmtribune.com/nation/world/congress-told-low-air-pressure-is-part-of-tire-failure/article_be67bbc7-9339-5d26-a8dc-5a25ac6590c0.html

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2000/08/tire-a16.html

"Most of these complaints have originated from the southern states of Arizona, California, Florida and Texas. ..... The corporations claim that improper maintenance of the tire, especially insufficient inflation, was often a factor in the accidents. High temperatures may also be a factor, thus accounting for the higher rates of incidents in the South."

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just like how insurance determines who's at fault in accidents. Whoever has 51% of the fault ends up paying for it.

Who has greater than 50% of the fault?

McD or Old lady?
Ford/Firestone or lazy consumers?

I think this is really difficult to decide. Consumers really should be more responsible with their actions, but I think the point TSG is making is that if it is found out that big corporations have already found out and documented incidences of their products might hurt dumb muther foquen mouth breathing consumers and yet chose not to do anything about it or even try to hide it, then these companies deserved to get their asses kicked in the courts.

Just like Peter Parker's uncle once said, great powers come with great responsibilities. Consumers definitely need to be held responsible, but as companies get bigger and bigger, they must also be held responsible especially when they're found to intentionally hiding known defective/dangerous stuffs.

[thesameguy]

Yes. I am aware. I am also aware the Toyota T-100s that had the same tire, with the same problematic DOT code, DIDN'T have the same problem

Actually, they did. All vehicles equipped with these tires showed a higher-than-average tendency for tread separation. Only about half the deaths attributed to this particular tire's failure occurred in Ford vehicles. The rest of them happened in other vehicles, including the T100. That was actually a major factor in Firestone shouldering the blame over Ford. The other major factor was that other tires on the Explorer, maintained in statistically similar ways, did not fail in similar ways.


point out that most of the failures occurred in hotter weather states than cold weather states. Which is why i insinuated that the low air pressure coupled with the overloaded conditions, created heat and was frequently the proverbial straw.

I get that, but again, the point is not what people might have done to alleviate the issue but rather that people do what people do, and only certain vehicles with certain equipment had these problems in these numbers. If cars were exploding all over the place because of overload/underinflate scenarios, there wouldn't be a problem. But this combo fails in *extreme* numbers compared to other vehicles. That is the problem.

You can take ANY substandard product and offer the explanation, "Well, if consumers had behaved differently it never would have happened." That's always true. If you don't give your dog the cheap dog food, they won't get melamine poisoning. If you block off the lower half of the crib, the baby's neck will not become trapped. If you only use half the ladder, the leg won't collapse. You can always offer that. But when you take the whole of a product landscape - all the dog food, all the cribs, all the ladders, all the coffee, and one product exhibits a stand-out rate of problems there is something wrong with that product. Nobody likes it, but nobody ever got sued for saying "We've identified a problem and we are fixing it NOW." What people get sued for is downplaying the severity of the issue, covering up examples of the issue, or totally ignoring the complaints.


Not all Ford Explorers with all tires exhibited this problem= not entirely an Explorer problem.
Not all cars equipped with this tire exhibited the fault= not entirely a tire problem.
Preponderance of rollovers and blowouts happening in lower latitude/ warmer states= temps a factor.
Many vehicles often loaded with full family. Few incidents with single occupant= load and therefore tire overheating a factor.

Spoken exactly like corporate America. Not everyone got cancer from smoking, right? So it's not the cigarettes.

It's not that it ALWAYS happens, it's that it happens in significant, abnormal, unacceptable numbers.


"Most of these complaints have originated from the southern states of Arizona, California, Florida and Texas. ..... The corporations claim that improper maintenance of the tire, especially insufficient inflation, was often a factor in the accidents. High temperatures may also be a factor, thus accounting for the higher rates of incidents in the South."

I think you have bolded the wrong text. THE CORPORATIONS CLAIM is the key part. What do you think they're going to claim after sweeping 500 complaints under the rug?

[thesameguy]

More good reading. (http://www.stern.nyu.edu/om/faculty/zemel/ford_firestone.pdf)

I just read that whole article, and it supports exactly what I've been saying. The tires were defective.


Workers at Decatur say they commonly ‘gassed’ or sprayed a chemical solvent on the rubber to
make it tackier. Several workers say they were told to stop using the solvent in the ‘last’ year.
“During the strike of 1994-1995 they were using it all the time” said Jared Thompson, a tire
builder “because the quality of the material going from one department to another was not that
good.”


Though many workers insist that they followed the rules and produced the best tires they
knew how, several say that the rubber was allowed to sit too long, that solvents were used
haphazardly to try to improve the rubber’s adhesive properties and that efforts to speed up the
vulcanization process may have led to flawed tires.


According to [FIRESTONE'S EXPERT] Dr. Govindjee small cracks develop inside the tires in a narrow strip of
rubber known as the belt wedge which runs between the edges of the two steel belts. Over time,
these cracks grow and spread through to the entire layer of rubber between the steel belts -
known as the skim layer - eventually leading to the separation of the tread and the upper steel
belt from the rest of the tire. Dr. Govindjee writes: “All evidence to date points to a slowly
developing fatigue crack that propagates through the belt wedge material and then subsequently
into the belt skim between the steel belts.”


Federal data show that the rate of fatal accidents involving tires grew faster on Explorers than
on other SUV's in the late 1990's and that the 1996 model year was particularly bad for these
types of accidents. Other data from two Ford factories that build Explorers show that when
either factory used Firestone tires instead of Goodyear tires, it had more tire-related fatalities, see
Table 3.


It thus turns out that the rate of damage claims per million tires built in Decatur was more
than double that rate for the tires made in Wilson and nearly 10 times the rate of Oklahoma City,
see Tables 1 and 2.

This was clearly never a problem with consumer action - it was a shitty tire that fell apart faster under certain conditions, but always fell apart in a way other tires did not. AND THEY KNEW IT. Bad product. Coverup. Big lawsuit. Same old story.

[overpowered]

More awesome from the Onion

http://www.theonion.com/article/newly-sworn-north-korean-official-wondering-how-he-50411

[overpowered]

Louisiana Republican Recalls Imaginary Time When Scientists Burned Heretics At The Stake (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/11/louisiana-scientists-burn-stake_n_7259486.html)

[thesameguy]

My only hope is that in the age of the internet kids that are getting royally hosed in school will have an opportunity to make up the lost ground. I hope.

[JoshInKC]

We do our best at the university level. A while back I tried to tally up the amount of class time that had been spent on teaching the very basics of the scientific method. It turned out that at that point, I'd had no less than 6 separate class periods devoted to it. Or, the exact amount of 100-200 level science (and social science) courses I'd had.
I started wondering about it when I realized that I'd learned the basics in 4th grade, so I asked my friend who's been a professor about 20 years now. She said that over her career, there's been a marked reduction in prior science knowledge - She only started teaching the scientific method about 10 years ago, because she realised that a high percentage of new students didn't have the slightest idea how it worked. Previously, she'd almost never needed to explain it, except in the cases of home-schooled kids.

Also, kids these days can't write. Seriously, I'm shocked that like 50% of students in introductory courses graduated high school. Many can hardly put together readable sentences, let alone write a sensible essay on something.

Finally, GET OFF MY LAWN!

[overpowered]

'Clinton Cash' publisher corrects '7 or 8' inaccurate passages

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/clinton-cash-publisher-corrects-7-or-8-inaccurate-passages-117946.html

[overpowered]

Poll: One-Third Of Republicans Think Obama Wants To Invade Texas

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/poll-one-third-republicans-think-obama-wants-invade-texas

[MR2 Fan]

:smh:

[overpowered]

The secretary of defense, Ashton Carter, responds to Ted Cruz's inquiry about a pending invasion of Texas:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason-stanford/the-pentagons-response-to_b_7251254.html

He was way too nice.

[21Kid]

'Clinton Cash' publisher corrects '7 or 8' inaccurate passages

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/clinton-cash-publisher-corrects-7-or-8-inaccurate-passages-117946.html
So, people are doing this to books now too? Just like video games. Just blast out an unfinished work and 'update' it later?
No need to fact check, just fix it as you go. :smh:

[thesameguy]

Finally, GET OFF MY LAWN!

Ugh. I know. So disappointed in everything.

[overpowered]

The Poor You Know & Did You Even Try to Research This?

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/q5tmo2/the-poor-you-know---did-you-even-try-to-research-this-

[Freude am Fahren]

The secretary of defense, Ashton Carter, responds to Ted Cruz's inquiry about a pending invasion of Texas:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason-stanford/the-pentagons-response-to_b_7251254.html

He was way too nice.

I hate to ask, but is this really from the SecDef? If so, that is amazing.

[overpowered]

Angela McGlowan saying stupid racist shit.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/fox-guest-to-michelle-obama-dont-complain-about-racism-because-whites-hired-you-for-your-black-skin/

Not to be outdone, Ann Coulter has to say something even more despicable:

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/12/ann_coulter_uses_michelle_obama_speech_as_jump_off _point_to_give_her_own_hilariously_wrong_history_o f_race_in_america/


“when you get into Princeton and you can’t read, is that enough” to “make up” for slavery and its legacy.

[21Kid]

The Poor You Know & Did You Even Try to Research This?

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/q5tmo2/the-poor-you-know---did-you-even-try-to-research-this-

The people who watch fox seem to be immune to any sort of criticism of themselves. It's pretty amazing.

[overpowered]

The people who talk on Fox seem to have no awareness of things that they've previously said.

[overpowered]

Maryland's Governor rejected $11.6 million in additional funding for Baltimore schools on Thursday saying "there wasn't enough money"

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-hogan-announcement-20150514-story.html#page=1

then approved a new $30 million youth jail in the city.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-youth-jail-20150513-story.html

[FaultyMario]

The people who talk on Fox seem to have no awareness of things that they've previously said.

It's the other way around.

[Freude am Fahren]

Maryland's Governor rejected $11.6 million in additional funding for Baltimore schools on Thursday saying "there wasn't enough money"

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-hogan-announcement-20150514-story.html#page=1

then approved a new $30 million youth jail in the city.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-youth-jail-20150513-story.html

:angry:

[LHutton]

Zimmerman Zimmerman'd

http://www.wesh.com/news/george-zimmerman-involved-in-shooting-in-lake-mary-police-say/32943828



The shooting involving Zimmerman and a man identified as Matthew Apperson, of Seminole County, occurred on Lake Mary Boulevard about 12:45 p.m., police said.

Raw video: Matthew Apperson blows cigarette smoke in camera

Zimmerman flagged down an officer shortly after the incident, police said.

“At this time, the investigation has proven that George Zimmerman was not the shooter,” Lake Mary Police Department spokeswoman Bianca Gillette said.

Zimmerman was hit in the face with glass and debris and has since been released from Central Florida Regional Hospital, according to police.

Kenneth Cornell, who works at the nearby Cyrus Diagnostic Imaging, said Apperson ran up to him about 1 p.m. saying he had just shot George Zimmerman.

Cornell said he called 911 and handed the phone over to Apperson.

“He said it was a road rage incident, that they were driving down the street and George pulled a gun on him,” Cornell said.

Now that's a pretty solid defence that will be hard to dismiss.

[speedpimp]

He only would've been Zimmermanned if he was unarmed, had been shot dead, there was no video and the police/jury bought the shooter's story. That would've been mother fucking Karma.

[LHutton]

I'm actually thinking Zimmerman did pull his gun, because if he didn't and the other guy thought he was dead, which he seemed to when he went to call it in, then leaving GZ dead with his gun holstered would easily disprove his story. Also, if his intention was just to plug him, he would have known if GZ was dead.

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10377365_307804192760449_5511945413796826262_n.jpg ?oh=fabdf044f4f2fc3981708c41dc2674df&oe=55C24F28

[LHutton]

http://alcason.com/ukrainians-urged-to-boycott-facebook/


«Mark Zuckerberg gave a totally inadequate response to the request of more than 50 thousand Ukrainian users. They asked him to review the process of complaints in connection with the massive bans of Ukrainian leaders», — reads the statement of the group.

The anti-Russian positions in Facebook Ukrainians were removed because of «hate speech», said the owner of the social network.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPTeCZ_gpDo

[overpowered]

It's amazing that someone this stupid can get elected.

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11150744_961558390551630_8652605080552227346_n.jpg ?oh=563618d0f84d10cf9a87c05cf50978d4&oe=55C70285

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w35M8ViyNs

[overpowered]

Kind of interesting that Ireland, a strongly catholic country, legalized same sex marriage by popular vote with 62% voting for it.

[TheBenior]

Catholicism has been on the wane in Ireland for the past 40 years. The Catholic Church's scandals have taken quite a toll over the years.

Church attendance has dropped from 91% in 1973 to 46% by 2009, and a mere 30% when Roman Catholics are exclusively considered. The US's self-reported rate was 39% (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance) in 2013, so Ireland's may be even lower than the US's now. Both countries' stats are probably overstated by half, since people tend to lie about how often they go to church.

FWIW, I went to a Catholic grammar school in Chicago, and the nuns were a lot more open-minded and took the Bible less literally than many self-identified 'Christians' I've since encountered.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, it's really the evangelicals (or whatever the catch-all term for predominantly southern denominations, I don't know what they all are) that are the problem, isn't it?

[LHutton]

Catholicism has been on the wane in Ireland for the past 40 years. The Catholic Church's scandals have taken quite a toll over the years.

Church attendance has dropped from 91% in 1973 to 46% by 2009, and a mere 30% when Roman Catholics are exclusively considered. The US's self-reported rate was 39% (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance) in 2013, so Ireland's may be even lower than the US's now. Both countries' stats are probably overstated by half, since people tend to lie about how often they go to church.

FWIW, I went to a Catholic grammar school in Chicago, and the nuns were a lot more open-minded and took the Bible less literally than many self-identified 'Christians' I've since encountered.
To be honest many people seem to think that all Catholics go around constantly bitching about homosexuality but I went to a Catholic primary school and attended church for the first 18 years of my life, and it was never mentioned once and that was in the '80s and '90s when such criticisms were less non-PC than they are now. The likes of WBC just give everyone a bad name, most Catholics won't even offer an opinion unless they're absolutely pressed for it.

[MR2 Fan]

http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aP4bPWg_460s.jpg

[overpowered]

Former CIA Directer Mike Morell says that Bush and Cheney lied to get us to go to war in Iraq

http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/videos/bushs-top-cia-briefer-bush-and-cheney-lied-to-the-public-about-iraq-war-video/

[LHutton]

Former CIA Directer Mike Morell says that Bush and Cheney lied to get us to go to war in Iraq

http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/videos/bushs-top-cia-briefer-bush-and-cheney-lied-to-the-public-about-iraq-war-video/
Well it was kind of true that Iraq did have WMDs but it was at the same time a deception:

http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/documents/S-2003-580.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Prelude

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Recovered_che mical_weapons

Hussein still had chemical weapons but probably didn't know it.

Basically they used an unclarified truth for the purposes of deception. That he was actively developing chemical weapons however, was a definite lie.

[overpowered]

Ayn Rand-loving CEO destroys his empire

http://www.salon.com/2013/12/10/ayn_rand_loving_ceo_destroys_his_empire_partner/

[21Kid]

Sears? :erm: Never heard of them.

Seriously though, there is an old school Sears (dating back to 1926) near me that I thought was closed. The front windows are dark and had like 1 mannequin with some random outfit, and no display informing what it was for. You can't see anything from the street. I seriously thought it was abandoned until I saw someone come out of the door (with empty hands). My wife even said at the time, "Why would anyone want to go in there?"

Truly sad. I used to go to Sears quite often in the late 90s. I got my first "store" card there.

[thesameguy]

Lampert is a weirdo, but I'm not sure it's fair to blame Sears' failure on him. Sears was dying when he moved in - is it likely they would have lasted another few years without him? I don't think so. All department stores have taken a beating from Walmart, Target, and the internet on one side and trendy fashion outlets on the other. There isn't much value in a traditional department store anymore.

I shop at Sears a fair amount - I have a big yard and a lot of cars and Sears is a happy mashup of supplies for that stuff. I definitely see Sears c2014 was healthier than Sears c2009. Maybe an illusion, but when you're dealing with consumers illusion is a big part of the package. The two Sears by me used to be empty 24x7, and now there's actually a fair amount of traffic. I'm sure it's different elsewhere - I bought some lawnmower stuff a couple years ago from the Sears in Rancho Cucamonga and it was disgusting inside. Like a dirty Walmart, if you can imagine. So, maybe Sears has some places to be but can't be ubiquitous like it used to be. Unfortunately, I don't think Sears can stand up to its competition in such capacity.

In some ways, Lampert might save sears... being able to buy Craftsman tools at the local Ace Hardware is top notch in my eyes. If all that survives from Sears is that stuff, I'd be ok with it. ;)

[George]

I've heard (and this might just be a rumor) that Sears no longer honors the lifetime guarantee that made their Craftsman tools famous. It used to be you could take in an old, rusty, beat-to-hell Craftsman tool they'd give you a new one right off the shelf, no questions asked. I remember when a guy I worked with did this after he found an extremely rusted pipe wrench that we could still read Craftsman on. They exchanged it for a brand new one. And I remember my father saying, "Son, always buy Craftsman tools, because wherever you go, you can always find a Sears store or a Sears "catalog store" (remember those?).

And was in the '90s when they sacked all the older, knowledgeable gentlemen who worked there in the hardware & tool department and filled the place with kids making minimum wage? Or was that in the '80s? I don't remember, but it seems like Sears stores have been getting steadily worse for a long time.

The Lands' End shirts I used to buy and wear for YEARS went to hell after Sears bought Lands' End. Suddenly their "Hyde Park" shirts, advertised as "how shirts used to be made" with thick oxford cloth that would hold a press forever became average run-of-the-mill shirts, no different than what they sell at low-quality retailers...like Sears! Oh, and they raised the price from $35 to $50, too.

Like 21Kid, I do have a Sears store card, or at least I think I still do. I got it right after college when it was said a Sears card and an American Express card were the good ways to build good credit. I don't know if that's still true, or if it ever was, but I bought a Kenmore washer & dryer from Sears when I got my first apartment. It only took a couple trips to the laundromat to make me realize what a huge waste of time sitting there was, waiting for clothes to wash and then dry.

The Sears-Roebuck Christmas Wish Book was pretty awesome, though. :up:

[MR2 Fan]

And was in the '90s when they sacked all the older, knowledgeable gentlemen who worked there in the hardware & tool department and filled the place with kids making minimum wage? Or was that in the '80s? I don't remember, but it seems like Sears stores have been getting steadily worse for a long time.

Isn't that most companies in the U.S. these days?

[thesameguy]

The Craftsman warranty is still in place. It does not cover everything (eq. torque wrenches) but it covers most everything. The only irksome change is that sometimes they send your tool somewhere for a repair vs. just exchange it on the spot. But, they do get you a working one so how much can you actually complain? People have commented that a lot of Sears tools now come from China, but I don't even remember the last one I broke through normal use. I've wrecked screwdrivers from improper usage, but all the "new crappy tools" have not had any problems I can speak of.

[George]

Isn't that most companies in the U.S. these days?

Of course, with the possible exception of Ace Hardware. But at the time, it seemed like a new thing, and I remember it as being sudden and obvious, such as going in one day and it seeming like they had fired everyone over 25 and brought in a whole crew of youngsters.

[thesameguy]

Don't forget that like Buick Sears customer base was aging and dying, and Sears went through huge pains to revitalize the brand and appeal to a younger, more affluent crowd. You know, so they could pay the bills. I'm sure that employees were a part of that plan to appear more youthful. I mean, I seriously doubt Sears said "Old people, get out" but they probably did drop positions and pay which had the same effect with one major caveat: They got dumb people, not just young people. Ultimately, it probably doesn't matter - the customer who wants a good price and legitimate good advice is a rarity. Most consumers aren't smart enough to be able to act on good advice, so I really believe not much was lost. Most people just care about the price tag, and of those that don't most already know what they're doing and don't need advice in the first place. I mean, Home Depot prides itself on the knowledge and quality of their employees (the training process is CRAZY) and the number of times I've witnessed blank stares from customers asking questions of employees grossly overshadows the number of times people actually communicate.

Also, merchant cards ("Sears cards") are considered lesser than general credit cards ("Visa") on your credit report, and sometimes word against you. Merchant cards are typically very easy to get, so if you have merchant cards and no credit cards, that's sort of an indication you have poor credit or poor credit management.

[George]

All true about Sears trying to make a profit, but they lost my business except unless I happen to be in the area and stop in out of convenience. I can't think of a single thing that I would go out of my way to get to a Sears store to purchase these days. Oh, wait, there is one - we have a Craftsman garage door opener and I bought an extra remote there once...for FORTY DOLLARS! :smh: I'm glad I have it now that it's an "extra" but at the time it was a replacement for one my wife thought she had lost. I remember kidding her about the price, and thinking Sears was screwing people on the price because it's a gotta-have kind of thing. Fortunately we found the missing remote and it's nice to have three - one of each car and one for when we're pedestrians or cyclists.

That makes sense about store cards too. Fortunately I'm well past that stage of life. I remember trying to buy a car after college with credit and was practically laughed at for having no credit - good or bad. That's why I had to buy brand new and super-cheap (a $8000 Mitsubishi pickup truck at 9.9% interest, IIRC). The interest rate was so much higher on used cars for people like me with no credit that I could only afford about half that much for a used car, plus whatever my down payment was, and I figured a new car would give me fewer headaches than the 21 year old car I had at the time. Enter the Sears card and a Kenmore washer & dryer, on credit. Those and my apartment lease were the building blocks of my credit rating, so I can't hate on Sears too much, but I remember when Sears meant Quality.

[overpowered]

Douche nozzle blocked relief funds for hurricane Sandy victims. Now he wants funds for his own state:

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/05/27/ted-cruz-demands-federal-money-texas-floods-blocking-hurricane-sandy-relief.html

[Crazed_Insanity]

As long as the douche doesn't demand federal money for Canada, I have no issues sending money to flood victims in Texas. He was an asshole to hurricane Sandy victims, but now is not the time to play politics with Houston flood victims. Hopefully the douche learns sometimes victims need a helping hand.

[thesameguy]

:up:

[Sad, little man]

Why does it seem like the Republicans always have the biggest, creepiest skeletons in their closets?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/30/us/politics/hastert-indictment.html?_r=0

[speedpimp]

Because the ones who don't want you to have any fun are the ones who are usually into the kinkiest and sickest shit.

I keep waiting for "Duggargate" to take a weirder and creepier turn than it already has.

[21Kid]

exactly...

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9zyLRaX7jQ

[Jason]

Christ-like.

[overpowered]

Fatass says John Kerry is too old to ride a bicycle:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/01/rush-limbaugh-john-kerry-bicycle_n_7489702.html

He claims that Kerry is just out riding as a photo-op. Meanwhile Kerry's actually a serious rider and has been for a long time. He was doing 5 hour century rides in his 60's. I can't do a 5 hour century right now.

[George]

John Kerry is a girly-man. :lol:

https://commandodando.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/putinbear.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9zyLRaX7jQ

Wow, initially I thought OP must have pulled something bogus off the internet, but after a bit of investigation, I guess this pastor is for real!

Anyway, after seeing some of his news interviews, I guess the guy really knows his bible. He just doesn't know homosexuality very well. Actually, I think he doesn't know sin very well.

Yeah, had the Jews in the past stoned to death all sinners, surely the world would be a better place and there would be no more sinners and no more problems whatsoever! There would also no longer be a need for a savior to be sent. What do we need Jesus Christ for? Since we can simply kill off our problems, why do we need saving?

Anyway, other than praying Obama to die an goto hell, this really shouldn't be in the political thread, right?

[speedpimp]

First earthquakes and other natural disasters were blamed on gays and gay marriage, now it's being blamed on women wearing blue jeans (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/brotherrichard/2015/06/blue-jean-wearing-women-are-weapons-of-mass-destruction/).

[overpowered]

Santorum

http://samuel-warde.com/2015/06/rick-santorum-single-moms-need-politicians-to-kick-them-in-the-butt/

[overpowered]

Mike Huckabee: I wish I pretended to be transgender to shower with girls (http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/mike-huckabee-transgender-shower-joke-118546.html)

[overpowered]

So, the people running America's Liberty PAC, established to get Rand Paul the presidency actually thought this was a good ad:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7qy-4CBBZo

[21Kid]

:erm:

[Yw-slayer]

I dunno, I found it pretty funny.

[overpowered]

There is nothing wrong in America today that a change of leadership will not make happen -- Rick Perry

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/11148725_10204824918408390_8249147382590437840_n.j pg?oh=072f6d98a0c31a733c575cdf3734fcc3&oe=55F7250C

[overpowered]

https://vimeo.com/128373915

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pntDF0QK9Ys

[LHutton]

^Probability of him standing trial?

[LHutton]

http://news.yahoo.com/study-israelis-palestinians-gain-billions-peace-064651084.html


JERUSALEM (AP) — Israelis and Palestinians would gain billions of dollars from making peace with each other while both would face daunting economic losses in case of other alternatives, particularly in case of a return to violence, according to a new study released on Monday.

[FaultyMario]

A glimpse into our problems. (http://kurthackbarth.com/2015/06/06/oaxaca-occupied/)

If I were living in the border states, I'd start taking cautionary measures. 2018 might have some fun stuff in store for us Mexicans. And you closer yanks, too.

[thesameguy]

Jeebus.

[Dicknose]

If you don't like the govt, why would you abstain from voting? Vote them out.

And a teachers union blocking fuel! Why would anyone expect that to work out and not end in forced removal?

[Rikadyn]

Because when the problem is systemic, rarely changing the wallpaper fixes the problem. If voting level gets low enough the government can no longer be able to declare itself the legitimate government (assuming it sells itself as a democracy anyway). It wasn't until voter turn out in South Africa reached single digits(%) that the other nation-states began to distance themselves from the government. Voting boycott is a legitimate tactic, but generally only works in places with high or mandatory voter turnout. In the US the movement (and it does exist) is easily eclipsed by voter apathy. The whole point is to make them use force to remove them, other than just complaining and wondering why nothing changes.

[21Kid]

On Thursday, Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback signed a bill that threatens the entire state's judiciary with destruction if it rules against a law he favors. Brownback has spent much of his tenure attempting to curb the state supreme court and consolidate power in the executive branch. Thursday's startling maneuver suggests the deeply conservative governor has no compunction about simply obliterating separation of powers when another branch of government gets in his way.
Isn't that illegal? :erm:

[MR2 Fan]

http://www.salon.com/2014/02/27/i_lost_my_dad_to_fox_news_how_a_generation_was_cap tured_by_thrashing_hysteria/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

[21Kid]

That's an old article... I thought it looked familiar. I may have even saw it in this thread. ;)

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11351406_10152932092215197_2022264613612940383_n.j pg?oh=5f372a35f3ef38cc47a67e9ac2f2e62f&oe=55F216F6

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11393156_1125281470831832_5351445716356459110_n.jp g?oh=d9b907651fea4f46196334c75016e9d1&oe=55F26A0C

[overpowered]

Rick Santorum Had a Campaign Rally in Iowa and Only One Person Showed Up (http://gawker.com/rick-santorum-had-a-campaign-rally-in-iowa-and-only-one-1710293490)

[Crazed_Insanity]

In a small town with population of 300, 1 person showing up is probably pretty good? ;)

Why would anyone campaign at a town with only 300 people? Interesting strategy...

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11351406_10152932092215197_2022264613612940383_n.j pg?oh=5f372a35f3ef38cc47a67e9ac2f2e62f&oe=55F216F6

Well, you're not suppose to expose top secret stuffs...

Anyway, I'm really not sure where to stand in the Snowden case. US government is cleared fucked up and I'm glad he did it..., but if I've decided to spill the beans for the good of the nation... I most certainly wouldn't run away and hide in Russia or China after the fact.

Give me liberty or give me death! Why did he fight for liberty in one nation and then hide in another nation that is even less free? It makes your motives a bit tainted. Usually we'd pick the lesser of the 2 evils... why would anyone give up the lesser of the 2 and go live in a nation with even less liberty? Until I figure out his true motives, I guess I'll be on the fence regarding this issue.

[Tom Servo]

I don't think it taints anything. We're getting a bit of a reputation of being able to disappear people into CIA prisons in other countries. I would definitely go somewhere where I'd consider it very unlikely that I'd be extradited back to the US after leaking that.

[thesameguy]

I wonder where that would be... it seems like anywhere that doesn't get crushed under political pressure would just be buy-able - or least have sufficient officials for sale to net the same result. I doubt there is ultimately anywhere that a person is truly safe from a modern 1st world government. Except Greece, who somewhat ironically cannot afford the grease.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rt_63ytBog

[Tom Servo]

I wonder where that would be... it seems like anywhere that doesn't get crushed under political pressure would just be buy-able - or least have sufficient officials for sale to net the same result. I doubt there is ultimately anywhere that a person is truly safe from a modern 1st world government. Except Greece, who somewhat ironically cannot afford the grease.

At least so far, it looks like Russia is a pretty good bet.

[LHutton]

The 'world' is isolating Russia ('http://ericpalmerblog.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-world-is-isolating-russia.html')

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QmUIYyN2KKM/VXcc2aRYTXI/AAAAAAAAG6w/hzn3WxIkoao/s400/worldiso.jpg ('http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QmUIYyN2KKM/VXcc2aRYTXI/AAAAAAAAG6w/hzn3WxIkoao/s1600/worldiso.jpg')

[overpowered]

Abortion Rates Drop In Spite Of Efforts By Anti-Choicers

http://samuel-warde.com/2015/06/huge-drop-abortion-rates-states-havent-restricted-abortion-access/

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't think it taints anything. We're getting a bit of a reputation of being able to disappear people into CIA prisons in other countries. I would definitely go somewhere where I'd consider it very unlikely that I'd be extradited back to the US after leaking that.

Is it possible to disappear in prisons on US soil? Snowden could still be captured and killed like Bin Laden someday except no one would never know about if US government doesn't advertise it.

All I'm saying is if this is a fight for liberty, what he's doing doesn't make much sense. You'd really rather live under Russian rule rather than the tyranical US rule? I just don't get that. If staying alive or out of jail IS really so important to you, then why bother with doing the right thing and whistle blow? Russian government's not doing the same things? Anyway, I just don't get the guy. Maybe someday he'll explain himself better. I admire him for having the courage to do what he did, but I just don't trust the guy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Abortion Rates Drop In Spite Of Efforts By Anti-Choicers

http://samuel-warde.com/2015/06/huge-drop-abortion-rates-states-havent-restricted-abortion-access/

Such a stupid article.

'The exact reason for this is unclear, but we know for sure the opposition is full of crap so can't possibly contribute to the decline!' :erm:

Pro-life really doesn't have to be opposite of pro-choice and vice versa. Reality is that nobody really wants to accidentally get pregnant and then having to make the decision for abortion. I understand the religious conservative right wing folks are nuts for proposing no sex, no contraception, and no abortion as the only solutions, but who knows, new generation of kids could wise up and realize saving sex for later is the safest and cheapest way to prevent unwanted pregnancies? ;)

Anyway, I just find it funny and amazing that sometimes when things take turn for the better, we can still manage to find ways the blame the other side.

[LHutton]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/29/us-mideast-crisis-turkey-arms-idUSKBN0OE28T20150529


A Turkish newspaper published video footage on Friday which it said showed security forces discovering weapons parts being sent to Syria on trucks belonging to the MIT state intelligence agency.

The footage shows gendarmerie and police officers opening crates on the back of the trucks which contain what newspaper Cumhuriyet described as weapons and ammunition. Cumhuriyet said the video was from Jan. 19, 2014 but did not say how it had obtained the footage.

Reuters reported last week that witnesses and prosecutors have alleged that MIT helped deliver arms to parts of Syria under Islamist rebel control during late 2013 and early 2014, quoting a prosecutor and court testimony from gendarmerie officers.

[overpowered]

Such a stupid article.

'The exact reason for this is unclear, but we know for sure the opposition is full of crap so can't possibly contribute to the decline!' :erm:

Pro-life really doesn't have to be opposite of pro-choice and vice versa. Reality is that nobody really wants to accidentally get pregnant and then having to make the decision for abortion. I understand the religious conservative right wing folks are nuts for proposing no sex, no contraception, and no abortion as the only solutions, but who knows, new generation of kids could wise up and realize saving sex for later is the safest and cheapest way to prevent unwanted pregnancies? ;)

Anyway, I just find it funny and amazing that sometimes when things take turn for the better, we can still manage to find ways the blame the other side.Actually, the states seeing the decline are all states that have better access to birth control and better sex education. The abstinence only crowd is in severe denial of reality. It doesn't work.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, not trying to argue abstinence works for everyone. It'll only work for virgins! :p

Just saying that I think it'll be better to have articles saying that 'hey, situation is improving because of this this and that...', rather than 'hey situation is improving, but certainly not because of these certain assholes.' Who cares about assholes? Tell me the good news!

[thesameguy]

:up:

[overpowered]

http://reverbpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Karen-Fitzgibbons-racist-Facebook-post.jpg

http://reverbpress.com/news/us/blacks-problem-texas-teacher-suggests-return-racial-segregation-video/

[Drachen596]

can someone explain exactly what the NYT was trying to prove with their article about Rubio having speeding tickets and owning an 80k boat while leasing a 2015 Q7?

[overpowered]

No idea. Jon Stewart, who's no fan of Rubio, goofed on the NYT hard for that.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/ctffc2/petty-in-print

[Drachen596]

from what i've been reading all it did is point out that of the people running for President he's far more like the average American than the rest. he's also apparently the poorest of those running with only about 500k in his personal accounts.

[neanderthal]

http://reverbpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Karen-Fitzgibbons-racist-Facebook-post.jpg

http://reverbpress.com/news/us/blacks-problem-texas-teacher-suggests-return-racial-segregation-video/

Racism is over!

[overpowered]

Co-Author Of Mike Huckabee Books Was Accused Of Child Molestation In Two Legal Cases (http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/co-author-of-mike-huckabee-books-was-accused-of-child-molest)

Josh Duggar isn’t the only alleged child molester tied to Mike Huckabee (http://www.salon.com/2015/06/11/mike_huckabees_child_molestation_problem_goes_furt her_than_josh_duggar/)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I can't believe Audi Q7 is only $50k! Surely the senator also chose various options that could add thousands more to the final price? How dare him buy such expensive German vehicle!!!

Also, is Huckabee really picking those child molesters as running mates or something? Or does this prove that Huckabee himself is likely to be a child molester due to association? Child molestation is contagious?

Anyway, I can't believe that FB post by 'Karen' is for real. If that really is indeed her true and honest opinion, hope she someday noticed that we now have a black president. So it's obvious her opinion is just an opinion, not really factual.

[overpowered]

Did you follow the link that I posted below the picture?

Huckabee also joined Ted Nugent in a jam session during which they played "Cat Scratch Fever" which is a song about Nugent's sex addition since he was 10 years old.

[21Kid]

:smh:

TOPEKA, Kan. (AP) — Republican leaders pushed a new plan for raising taxes through the Kansas House early Friday morning, hours after top aides to GOP Gov. Sam Brownback warned them that failing to erase a budget deficit risked funding for universities and invited a downgrading of the state's bond ratings.Gee really?!?
Legislators in past years backed the GOP governor by slashing personal income taxes in an effort to stimulate the economy, but those policies contributed to a budget deficit that ballooned this year.

Brownback was forced Thursday to publicly plead with Republican legislators to increase the state's sales and cigarette taxes to balance the next state budget....

[Crazed_Insanity]

Did you follow the link that I posted below the picture?
Obviously I didn't. I thought the link will just show the same post again... Anyway, her post is still... unbelievable. Especially for a teacher. She must've been under some sort of influence? One too many drinks when she made the post? I hope she doesn't have any black students in her class...

Anyway, racism is never going away. People will simply become more politically correct. And even after when we're all mixed up and can no longer be racially profiled... we can still be profiled by our ideologies and discrimination can still continue. Take China for example. All chinese look alike, but we can still profile folks with their stereotypical qualities by geographical locations. Interestingly, a lot of these stereotypes are true! ;) Anyway, asian folks also will usually put on a smiling welcoming face while greeting you... and then talk shit about you behind your back! So I think this white lady probably didn't realize facebook isn't as private as she thinks. What is kinda sad about it is that your screen shot showed 9 people liked her comment! Anyway, I don't want to be a thought police. People can have their own opinions. I just hope she won't mistreat black students in class.


Huckabee also joined Ted Nugent in a jam session during which they played "Cat Scratch Fever" which is a song about Nugent's sex addition since he was 10 years old.
What about Clinton who actually joined in on a sex session with an intern? Oh wait, sorry, intern is an adult so consensual sex problems are okay... but if you have friends who are child molesters or who has a strong sex drive since 10, then its indication that you must be unfit for the white house?

If you want to dig dirt, why not dig up Huckabee's own personal dirt? Best they can do is find out that Huckabee has child molestor friends? OMG, so this proves that Huckabee must be a child molestor too?!?!?!? I guess we must choose our friends carefully huh? Ask them if they're child molesters before adding them as a friend.

[thesameguy]

I have a list of about 20-30 things I ask everyone I meet before we can have a real conversation. Important things, like "at what age did you lose your virginity" and "have you ever had an extra-marital affair." The answers to those questions categorically define the person's value as a human being and, more important, whether we can hang out. I feel everyone should do the same.

[LHutton]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/malaysian-officials-blame-western-tourists-who-stripped-on-mount-kinabalu-of-causing-deadly-earthquake-10304283.html


Malaysia accuses Western tourists who stripped on sacred mountain of causing deadly earthquake
:lol:

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmeF2rzsZSU

[tigeraid]

So apparently this half-melted creamsicle douchebag is running for president. He began his campaign by talking about how much money he's made.

That this is even a possible thing is terrifying.

http://gawker.com/miss-usa-owner-to-bring-trademark-gravitas-to-president-1711687951

[Freude am Fahren]

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11406795_10153370310758446_3171158780759634173_n.j pg?oh=e233130d9dd1c219d7b43ea07f3e0ede&oe=55F8AA7C

[Tom Servo]

I saw his daughter described him as "the exact opposite of politically correct." I think she's right. Politically correct is basically doing everything one can to avoid offending anyone. He likes to offend people for the sake of offending them. He's like a foul-mouthed 13 year old.

At least he'll make comedians' lives a little easier for the next few months until he gets bored because nobody else is paying attention to him.

[overpowered]

Skip to 3:45

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/gyhfub/democalypse-2016---white-house-don

[overpowered]

Palin vs. Obama

http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/politics/conservative-page-says-palin-10x-smarter-than-obama-lets-go-to-the-scorecards/

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10460454_1131519806874665_6489846812196331438_n.jp g?oh=a58595b41270834ee7598f5c5011ddb8&oe=5625162F

[TheBenior]

Trump seriously running for president? Maybe.

Trump running to promote himself for just long enough to avoid disclosing that he's not worth anywhere near what he says he is? Almost certainly.

[Jason]

Indeed... he throws his name into the ring of just about anything at this point in his "career" without actually following through. And it's clearly working, every time he gets a shit ton of press. It's annoying.

[neanderthal]

Indeed... he throws his name into the ring of just about anything at this point in his "career" without actually following through. And it's clearly working, every time he gets a shit ton of press. It's annoying.

Meanwhile Bernie Sanders struggles to get major media coverage...

It speaks volumes about the corporate media and their role in bamboozling the public.
But the public needs to own up to their own apathy which led to us being where we are today. People more concerned about the Kardashians than real shit that's going on.