Politics

[Tom Servo]

See, I think this is what I don't get. Most of what you say is fine, but it's pretty clear from the "homeless per capita" stats that this is not a "blue city" specific issue. It might skew a bit that way, but it's not like it's not a problem in places like Tallahassee. It's not obvious that it's specifically a blue city problem, why would you say that?

At least out here, the police haven't really been defunded at all. The police budget in LA went down by 2% last year, then up 3% for this year. Yes, high profile flash mob robberies are happening, and yet crime overall is down.

But I agree - what's the point of having a lot of police working hard catching them if we don't actually treat the disease and just keep using them to treat the symptoms, and spend so much on jailing people that we literally can't afford to hold all the symptoms, and have contracted out incarcerating people to companies that profit off of how many people they keep in prison?

The flash mob robberies are shiny and scary. They are not indicative of an overall societal collapse. People in them are being arrested - I've heard of way fewer of them happening over the past couple of weeks. They are not a harbinger of the police being defunded.

Again - total agreement that most of our politicians lack the political will to make actual choices that might help, regardless of party, and that we need solutions as the current situation is untenable. I just think it might get better if we spend a little less on policing and more on social programs and people trained to deal with homelessness.

I get some of the frustration - I've been a victim of multiple crimes that the cops just don't pursue, and most were many years before any talk of "defunding". But I just don't think a more carceral, authoritarian state is the answer. We have a vast divide between the haves and the have nots that continues to get worse - while people are struggling to make rent during covid, home sales are through the roof and our home's value has gone up at least another 20%. I don't think enforcing a caste system rather than trying to lift everyone up to at least a basic minimum level is the right answer.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I get the feeling that we agree on a lot of essential stuffs but somehow I’m just not communicating my thoughts politically correctly or properly enough thats why I’m not getting thru to you… or perhaps you think I’m unfairly judging the blue cities I’ve seen with my own eyes? Problems are just as bad everywhere in America? Fine, let’s just go with that. The entire nation is screwed up. Do we need to address that or is climate still more important? We just cannot build back better without all the green deals? I thought I’m the progressive here? ;) BBB is stuck currently, right? So we should just wait until GOP and Manchin turn around? Or wait til GOP grab back power?

We have plans and goal to cut carbon emissions at least, but what plans and goals do we have to help fellow struggling Americans?

I do want peoples lives lifted to some basic minimum level, that’s why I’m all for raising min wage or supplement folks with UBI of some sort.

However, when it comes to addicts, giving them only money and shelter probably won’t cut it, right? Similarly for the mentally illed. They need additional help. Also need to crush those on top (drug makers/dealers/doctors) exploiting/poisoning these people.

Our planet is sick because the people living on it is sick. If we don’t fix our people problems, I just don’t think we’ll really be able to properly address our climate problem. The less struggling folks living in our nation and around the world, the easier we can generate enough political will to start fighting climate change or anything else we really need to do. The more 'strugglers' around, the easier for folks like Trump and Hitler to gain power.

[Tom Servo]

or perhaps you think I’m unfairly judging the blue cities I’ve seen with my own eyes?

I think you're relying on the anecdotal evidence you've seen in a very limited set of locations to not only believe you've determined the true scope of the problem, but also what the cause of it is, and it's colored the entire rest of your thinking about it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't claim to know the true scope of the problem, but I think it's clear that we have a problem. You are just unwilling to accept that blue states are experiencing more of this problem.

Let's forget about Billi's perception for a minute.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/04/16/the-us-cities-with-the-highest-homeless-populations-in-2020-infographic/?sh=3023bee2188c

Chart in that article showed # of homeless population by #. Arizona is perhaps the only riddish state on the list? However, I suppose it could be unfairly treating NY and LA because we just have so many people living in those cities to begin with... so let's go by /capita basis...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/727847/homelessness-rate-in-the-us-by-state/

1)DC
2)NY
3)HA
4)CA
5)OR
6)WA
7)ALASKA
...

So I guess you're right, being blue has nothing to do with anything. A red state is on the list at #7!!! ;)

That above linked site may want your info to view the data... so I also found this on wiki to show states with above average homelessness:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States_by_state
These are the states with above average homelessness. (Alaska, California, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Nevada, New York, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington) Are they more blue or red? I really think they're mostly blue. Anyway, red states also have their share of problems. Red folks are struggling too... that's why they don't trust the established GOP politicians and believe Trump will help fix their problems.

It doesn't really matter of the color, I think we can at least agree that this is a problem for America and things are not looking better for LA nor Seattle, right? Also, the homeless problem in LA and Seattle are not caused by Trump and the republicans, right?

BBB can't get thru congress at the moment. Perhaps republicans also won't agree to funds to help the poor americans too, but just saying we ought to try to at least push something thru. I think finding political will to fight our climate will remain nearly impossible. However, we can probably swing some conservative voters to want to BBB our roads, bridges and people. Can't just be like Bernie Sanders and couldn't get anything done because nobody likes you enough to pass any of your bills. Need to be more pragmatic man! :p Better Biden pass this thing than Trump in 2024.

Besides making sure americans don't have to struggle to produce documents to vote, we also should try to help americans to not struggle to live. If we do that, pretty sure it'll be hard for Trump to win votes.

[FaultyMario]

Why isn't January 6 donald trump Day?

[Crazed_Insanity]

He probably wanted it that way but his PR folks probably advised against that!

One year into it, we arrested a bunch of low level dumbass insurrectionists and have no clue who's really the mastermind behind all that. The man who gave the order to send them home should be enough clue? But anyways, it's just easier to pick on the black lives or, in this case, the white low lives who don't really matter. If you have enough money and power, I guess that's kryptonite to our justice system.

Hope we can get him before 2024..., otherwise our calendar probably eventually will have a Donald Trump official holiday sooner or later... and maybe a USS Trump Aircraft Carrier... and a new statue of him with his beautiful hair on Mount Whooshmoore...

[21Kid]

I think you're relying on the anecdotal evidence you've seen in a very limited set of locations to not only believe you've determined the true scope of the problem, but also what the cause of it is, and it's colored the entire rest of your thinking about it.

That doesn't sound like Billi at all...

[Tom Servo]

I'm as shocked as anyone!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Statistical data, along with my own observation, is pretty clear.

I have to say that I’m not trying to blame liberals for directly causing more homelessness. Big metro cities are just more liberal and with more homeless folks. There’s a clear correlation, causation would be a different story.

Anyway, point is this problem is getting worse and neither political parties seem to care to solve this problem.

[JoshInKC]

Chart in that article showed # of homeless population by #. Arizona is perhaps the only riddish state on the list? However, I suppose it could be unfairly treating NY and LA because we just have so many people living in those cities to begin with... so let's go by /capita basis...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/727847/homelessness-rate-in-the-us-by-state/

1)DC
2)NY
3)HA
4)CA
5)OR
6)WA
7)ALASKA
...

Based on your post above, I would say there's a much clearer correlation with location on the Pacific ocean than large liberal metro areas.

[FaultyMario]

https://today.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Guinier_EventMelissaBlackall-19-1024x702.jpg

We lost a legend today. Power rests in her.

Lani Guinier, Sit tibi terra levis.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Based on your post above, I would say there's a much clearer correlation with location on the Pacific ocean than large liberal metro areas.

#7 on the list proved me wrong, but #1 on the list proved you wrong. Your theory is definitely not clearer than mine.

It’s amazing. This is like arguing with conservatives about climate change. Derail the discussion at all cost to avoid the issue.

Most liberals think red conservative capitalists are pigs, but it is definitely inside a blue state that we have the widest wealth disparity! Well, Elon is moving to Texas, maybe I’ll be proved wrong again. ;)

Seriously, My annoyance is that we at least have political will on the left to save the planet, but neither party seems to care about fellow Americans falling on the way side. BBB has to include more rebuilding of the people, not just infrastructure or the planet…

There’s also nothing being addressed on the top level. Who are the ones selling drugs to people? Similarly with illegal migrants. How are employers being penalized for hiring illegals? We don’t stop the source of our problems(trump) and we go after stupid ass migrants and insurrectionists as if locking them up or higher walls can solve our problems.

I guess that’s the only solution… to just pretend that we don’t see them and hope they will eventually decompose in graves. We better not cremate them because that will raise carbon emissions.

[Tom Servo]

Neither one proved either wrong, but the point is that neither "proof" proved either of them right. Correlation is not causation. That's not derailment.

The thing is, the problem tends to happen in larger cities, which often lean blue. Cities have more people, higher housing costs, and better services for the homeless. It's not necessarily liberal policies, and while the top cities do tend to be liberal, there are plenty of conservative leaning ones in the mix as well. Let's not also forget that cities might have less of a problem than it seems as they just ship homeless people to other cities to get rid of them. However, you think you've found the link and that's it - other possibilities aren't entertained because you found the link you want.

That and this equation with climate change. They are both important! They should both be tackled! Climate change might be even more important to the homeless population than to the homed population, as a lot of homed people have HVAC and aren't as vulnerable to extreme weather events!

We're in complete agreement that homelessness is a major issue. It's that you go off on these tangents that maybe make sense in your head, but to us, it's like "I found this other thing and have now created a zero-sum game out of them and you must accept all my other assumptions!"

This kinda reminds me of a mistake I make often at work. I try to work through about 80% of the problem, and then have to ask for help and I ask from that 80% spot. Problem is, I was on the wrong path, and if I just said "I have this problem, can you help me solve it", that'd make everyone's day better.

I think I get where you're trying to go with this, that the omnibus budget bill would be better off focusing on housing people rather than climate change. I think most of us don't think they're mutually exclusive and aren't sure why you're so focused on this. You've also associated in defunding the police but have never once mentioned military spending, which is actually part of a federal budget whereas police funding tends to be more local. Also, I'm angry that you made me end up addressing your weird "climate change or homelessness" non-conflict after I specifically tried to avoid it.

And I really don't want to even touch the "arresting people is the solution" part.

At any rate, I think if you just said "it would help liberals if they spent more time highlighting and focusing on the issue of homelessness" and then just stopped, that would have gone over much, much better.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I figured I probably use the kind of language or tone which ticked you guys off.

However, I did propose we arrest criminals, not criminalize homelessness. I failed to understand why are you offended by me wanting to arrest criminals?

Anyway, I personally have no problems with governments tackling different problems at the same time. I guess I’m just a bit upset that we place climate change on a higher priority it seems. (I’m talking liberals, conservatives probably don’t care for both.)

However, speaking of priority, I do believe we need to rank things. There’s a limit to multitasking. There’s a limit with our political will… there’s a limit with money and time… so we need to prioritize accordingly.

BBB probably should be a bunch of smaller bills too. Pass the low hanging fruits 1st and then tackle the bigger problems like climate change and homelessness? Rather than bundle everything as if everything in that bill is ‘equally’ important?

Anyway, I was just like upset witnessing homelessness in LA and in Seattle. You were pretty upset at work… so it’s probably no good trying to discuss anything while all parties were upset? :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

It’s so sad that we are so partisan that the right won’t investigate trump and the left won’t investigate Fauci.

Actually the right is beginning to investigate the role FBI played during Jan 6, but the left will insist the right wingers are going crazy with their conspiracy theories all the while FBI is refusing to answer any questions. Is it so hard to answer yes and no questions that FBI has to remain silent when asked?

Anyway, we’ll just have to get used to never getting to the bottom of anything. People on the top or special non-elected govt agencies like FBI, CIA, NSA or whatever else just don’t have to answer or be accountable to anything… and if you believe in conspiracies that goes contrary to the appropriate narrative, then you are just branded crazy. We’ll just have a bunch of crazies living in bubble on the right and another bunch or crazies living in bubble in the left. At least I’ve already self identified as crazy so I could visit both bubbles whenever I want. ;)

[Tom Servo]

I think it's really dangerous to both-sides the truth when you're dealing with a compulsively lying demagogue like Trump and his sycophants. Why would we investigate Fauci? The "FBI is behind Jan 6th" came from a bunch of his sycophants that don't understand the term "unindicted co-conspirator", there's no actual evidence to support an investigation. It'd just be wasting taxpayer money on a distraction, kinda like the four Benghazi investigations.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm just not comfortable with the response from FBI. FBI did not clearly state yes or no with their involvement of the insurrection. They just say I can't answer your fucking questions Ted Cruz. Basically go fuck yourself.

Yeah, Ted Cruz definitely should just go fuck himself, but I don't understand why FBI can't just straight up and say we're not involved... or yes, we're involved because...

As for Fauci, I guess we can't really get a super clear picture from the heavily redacted emails, but sounds like US funded the Wuhan lab to do research. They themselves were initially worried that perhaps their work might have leaked out of the lab, but media efforts were coordinated to make sure lab leak narrative is impossible... we needed to do this to ensure international harmony. Just as we needed to save masks for the healthcare workers so we publically announced earlier on during the pandemic that masks don't work. We don't need them.

Anyway, for sure I trust Trump way less, but Fauci has lost my trust as well. WHO/Fauci/CCP are all on the same team in my humble conspiratory opinion. This pandemic should be preventable, but politics has caused it to spread out of control.

Point is we need to investigate these things to make sure insurrections, pandemics, market crashes won't happen again.

However, we just can't ever get to the bottom of anything nowadays. Nobody near the top will ever be held accountable. Problems will likely happen again and again. Even when we do investigate, chances are we will ignore all the inconvenient truths. The whole truth in this partisan world is just no longer possible.

[Tom Servo]

The FBI have a long history of "We cannot confirm nor deny." That's pretty normal for them. We know they had at least one informant there who was part of the Proud Boys, and they have a long history of doing just enough goading to avoid entrapment rules when it comes to terrorism suspects. Like, help them pick targets, find contacts to procure stuff to build bombs, etc. It's dodgy. There are a lot of cases where it's questionable whether the person they ended up arresting would have actually attempted to carry out an act that they were goaded into by the FBI.

But they have always arrested the people they were basically entrapping *before* they did the actual bombing/murdering/stabbing. What motive would the FBI have to conduct an assault on the capitol that lead to the deaths of multiple law-enforcement officers?

I'm sure they have their reasons for not divulging everything. Maybe they don't want to endanger other informants that they have? Maybe they don't want to jeopardize ongoing investigations? Despite what a lot of people think, though, not wanting to sing like a canary doesn't mean guilt.

Now, though, we get to one of the biggest mysteries for me. This idea that Fauci lied to us about the efficacy of masks, and should have just said they were trying to make sure they were reserved for healthcare workers.

HE DID SAY THAT! I distinctly remember this! The thing they didn't know at the time was that wearing non-N95 masks would help keep sick people from transmitting the virus, not that it would really help people from getting it. And they've said *over* and *over* and *over* again that mask wearing was to help protect other people if you were an asymptomatic carrier, and for some reason, so many people think that it was the other way around. Only N95 and similar type masks actually protect the wearer, and that they could help protect others from wearers who didn't know they were infected was something they found out later. A lot of that had to do with not fully understanding the way the virus was transmitted (remember when we weren't sure if it was aerosolized at all?)

Sometimes I think I'm taking crazy pills. It's like when Trump lies about things that are easily verifiable, like that he won by the biggest electoral college landslide in history in 2016. This is all easily verifiable, and yet somehow it not only persists, it actually changes whether you trust a person.

[Crazed_Insanity]

There's no argument with Trump lies being way easier to verify, but of course his supporters will not be motivated enough to verify such things when they believe the liberals are totalitarian commies out to take away their freedom! They believe Trump's lies are the lesser of the 2 evils.

Anyway, fuck Trump and his supporters.

Back to the left... you yourself admit to the dodginess of FBI's practices yet, you go out of your way to defend the FBI. Hey, that's what they do all the time. Nothing to see here.

How does that make you better than those MAGA folks?

I am supposed to be the most gullible and naive person here on this forum for believe in Jesus and Santa Clause...

But I just cannot trust authorities on both sides.

I distinctively remembered Fauci said we don't need masks initially. Yeah, the science isn't clear yet during the early stages, so he shouldn't be saying that at all. Whatever his benevolent motive was, he should just be truthful with the public... when it's not clear, tell people to play it safe rather than confuse people and causing them to not trust you. The establishment has always operated as if people are dumbasses so we can't really tell them the truth. I think that's mainly the reason why some folks find Trump's straight shooting approach refreshing and resort to believing in conspiracies.

To me, Fauci has always been setting policies more on politics rather than real science. His also trying so hard to define what is 'gain of function' research. Just like Bill Clinton wanted to redefine the definition of the word 'is'... Fact remains that US money funded some stuffs in the Wuhan lab. We still don't know how shit hits the fan. It's probably a good idea to insist that this virus is naturally occurring because if it were accidentally leaked, it's not going to be good for either China or US.

It's also quite funny to see exchanges between Rand Paul and Fauci... resorting to personal attacks rather than staying on topic.

Anyway, I'm just sick of the attitude of blaming and investigating only the 'other side', but whatever misdeeds done on 'our side', we don't really care. Yeah it's dodgy, but hey, I'm not going to question them. It's always the fault because of the crazies on the other side.

Think of it this way... if it were W vs Snowden, surely nobody here will side with W, right? However, when its Obama vs Snowden... then naturally Snowden must be the crazy one and we'll just leave it at that so that we can live our merry lives.

I pray that someday black lives will really matter and low lives like Snowdens will at least be able to receive a fair public trial. Our justice is just not quite for all at the moment...

[Tom Servo]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bending over backwards to defend the FBI. I'm saying that there's no evidence that we need to have an investigation as to whether or not they orchestrated a terrorist attack on the capitol, and having that would be a waste of time and money that, at the end of it, you'd complain that we don't have concrete answers.

As far as Fauci goes, there's a few things going on here:

One of the easily verifiable things is that he said that non N95 masks probably didn't offer much protection and said that they wanted to save the scant supply of N95 masks for frontline healthcare workers. He literally said it. I found two examples in like 5 minutes of him making public statements to that effect in March of 2020.

We also know that the US government has funded research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. That's never been a secret. Research there helped drive research into what would become the vaccines that, as Trump likes to remind everyone, we got in record time. I remember reading that Moderna and Pfizer both had their vaccine candidates ready in like a couple of days, largely thanks to the research that the Wuhan Institute had done and that they'd already mapped out the virus' genome.

If there was study into gain of function, do you think it's more likely that Fauci himself ordered it, hid it from the entire government, and funded it entirely himself, or that it was part of a defense program? I'm pretty sure redactions in any documents aren't Fauci's personal doing.

Finally, I can't speak for anybody else, but I think Snowden was absolutely right doing what he did, and one of my biggest complaints about Obama is that he completely went back on his word to support whistleblowers.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Glad we at least agree on Snowden! ;)

Anyway, whatever they’re doing at Wuhan, we’d probably never know. Maybe they were really advancing science or somebody, whether man or Mother Nature, has something more sinister in mind. I guess the research is really paying off. We developed vaccines so quickly! Yeah!

The other thing is Fauci’s controlling the narrative. We just don’t know what happened, even amongst experts themselves. However, Fauci orchestrated a single narrative. Lab leak is just impossible or highly improbable… one has to be crazy to believe Covid didn’t come from nature!

Just like the mask thing, since we don’t really know the truth, there’s no need to eliminate other theories or other nonN95 masks… and then later on ask people to at least put on cloth masks!?!?

Anyway, any kind of investigation would simply be for show at this point. Even if the Chinese and/or US governments were found culpable for doing dangerous research, who dares become the next Snowden? It’d be easier to believe God did all this.

[Tom Servo]

10 members of the Oath Keepers, including the head of the group, have been indicted for seditious conspiracy. 8 others for other charges.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/leader-oath-keepers-and-10-other-individuals-indicted-federal-court-seditious-conspiracy-and

https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1481726769606520832?t=KkZs5P74GX5nL5ja4lLbcA&s=19

[Crazed_Insanity]

I wonder why Donald screwed up the plan by telling them all to go home.

[FaultyMario]

OMG, they'd planned an amphibious assault!

[Rikadyn]

3860

[Dicknose]

10 members of the Oath Keepers, including the head of the group, have been indicted for seditious conspiracy. 8 others for other charges.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/leader-oath-keepers-and-10-other-individuals-indicted-federal-court-seditious-conspiracy-and

https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1481726769606520832?t=KkZs5P74GX5nL5ja4lLbcA&s=19

No mention of Jon Schaffer... he was suppose to be a member and had info which I gather was part of his plea deal.

What surprises me (but shouldn't!) was the bit about have teams outside the capital area ready to bring in weapons if it got that far. Wow - that was serious rebellion stuff, not just a protest gone wild.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I specifically remember I was in the middle of refinancing my home during late Dec and early Jan... and my loan agent and I were pondering whether to lock our rates before the possible insurrection or after. She warned me about the upcoming insurrection and she needed me to make the decision on my own because there's no way to predict how the rates will change if insurrection really does happen... I figured the rates probably won't drop any lower. How bad can things go, right? It's not like fed will lower the rates to negative territory...

Anyway, point is my loan agent was more aware of what's about to happen and more prepared than the Capitol Police. We were not expecting just a 'protest' for sure. It's not surprising to me at all that they were serious about the insurrection and wish to reinstall Trump back in power. A lot of crazy Christians even believe God will miraculously raise Trump up because some 'prophets' had prophesied in the name of the Lord.. It was a fairly open secret. One has to live under a rock to be unaware of the upcoming threat. Capitol police has the means to fight off the crowd, but the folks at the top decided to hold back gears and manpower and not to treat the insurrectionists as typical black lives for some reason. I really would like to know what caused Trump to call off the plan. Dictatorship was within reach. Something significant must've happened for Trump to not put up a fight.

[Tom Servo]

I think one thing interesting that may come out of all this is finding out where in the chain of information things fell apart so that the top brass didn't see this coming. There was an article I posted a while back about how some agents were starting to sound alarm bells, as one of the links above shows they were basically plotting this out in the open, but it sounds like they would eventually hit someone in the hierarchy who would doubt there was a problem and the information would just stop there.

[MR2 Fan]

Part of it is probably the "nah, that can't happen HERE" mentality

[Tom Servo]

Part of it is probably the "nah, that can't happen HERE" mentality

You're probably right. While I knew the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers were going to get up to something, I figured it'd mostly be brawling in the streets and clashes with police at the capitol. I did not think they'd be organized enough to overwhelm the police that quickly and how far they'd take it.

I'm not sure if that level of organization was right out on the open, but the sentiments and people volunteering to be part of some sort of violence sure was.

My guess when it comes to Schaffer is that he's already pleaded guilty to what they had on him, and he probably did help the investigation to keep from being charged with something more.

[Yw-slayer]

Part of it is probably the "nah, that can't happen HERE" mentality

Never underestimate the fanaticism and numbers of Billi's Brainwashed Bros.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think one thing interesting that may come out of all this is finding out where in the chain of information things fell apart so that the top brass didn't see this coming. There was an article I posted a while back about how some agents were starting to sound alarm bells, as one of the links above shows they were basically plotting this out in the open, but it sounds like they would eventually hit someone in the hierarchy who would doubt there was a problem and the information would just stop there.

I can't believe there were any 'doubts' at any level. I can understand secret service or law enforcement have limited resources and could not possibly respond to all possible threats. However, there was only a single threat against the capitol. Ordinary citizens like my loan agent saw it coming. Can you imagine Secret Service received a single threat against the president's life and then they doubted the tip and then actually decided to make sure they place even less # of agents around the president than typical and then actually limit their access to proper gears?

Either there were Trump supporters within top level of the government secretly wanting this insurrection to succeed, or top level of the government is orchestrating a show for all of us to see. I guess it is possible that top level of the government is also split like us? So both could be going on at the same time? So it was like a chess game to them... insurrectionists and the police on the ground were simply their pawns. Trump's side must've foresaw that they couldn't win so Trump asked the folks to go home rather than escalating further.

We all know about the dodginess of the FBI... and even Obama would want to silence whistleblowers like Snowden... chances are a thorough investigation will probably implicate everybody. This is why we never get to the bottom of anything near the top... problems never solved and we'd always have questions and doubts giving rise to bunch of conspiracies. See 9/11, financial crisis, mysterious death of Epstein, etc.

Existence of Snowden should remind us all that US government is not really interested in transparency at the top level. Non-elected government officials near the top or the rich elites controlling them are probably as bad as the CCP, at least dictator Xi is clear with his iron fists, but the US version just have to maintain the illusion that we're still a democracy.

Yeah yeah, voting rights are definitely important, but it'd be really nice if our votes can really make any significant difference. At this point, our votes are meaningless. Whether you vote for democrats or republicans, Congress does NOT pass legislations in accordance to the will of the people. Our congress folks do not represent us. You want representation? You gotta have more money. If you really want to represent the people, then you're political career probably won't go very far. If you're stubborn and steadfast enough, maybe you'll do as well as Bernie Sanders... that's about it.

Trump would've won my vote if he would pardon or give Snowden a fair trial. However, he did no such thing. He not only didn't really drain the swamp, but also added more swamp creatures worse than before!

Biden is probably our last hope. I was really surprised that he could end a forever war. I would not believe that'd actually happen until I actually saw it. Anyway, with such low approval rating, maybe he can be motivated to just do more of what's right than what's politically right. In times such as this one, voters don't really need more rights, they probably need more bread. Make the lives or americans better, you will win more votes. So much more to the point of never have to worry about filibusters or stupid Manlychin or lousy Cinemas. Minority rights are definitely good, but we need to also make sure the majority is taken care of too. Otherwise, it'll be Trump 2024 for sure.

[Tom Servo]

I can't believe there were any 'doubts' at any level.

I believe the article in question was the Washington Post one about the leadup, actual, and aftermath of the insurrection, mainly in the leadup part. I believe you said that it was really long and didn't read it. I'll repost it here: https://wapo.st/3A1fMBp

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, that was long, but I think I read thru the lead up part… even just reread some of it. Anyway, can understand they not taking candidate Trump seriously at 1st, but how can you not take the sore loser president trump seriously? Especially with so many warnings?

It made sense they want to not deploy troops/national guard fearing the commander in chief might have other ideas… plus who knows how many trump supporters we have in the military! However, the Capitol police’s relative inaction was surprising to me. Yeah, it’s easy to say that we just never got the memo from other agencies, but I just find it hard to believe.

I really believe Trump had his chance to grab power if he wanted to. If he didn’t tell people to go home, he probably would become the ‘president’ now. However, something made him tweet out go home.

[FaultyMario]

Wow, your country does suck if it can allow to have this man in a position of power.



Mitch McConnell: "The concern is misplaced, because if you look at the statistics, African-American voters are voting in just as high a percentage as American voters."

https://twitter.com/bse229/status/1484007688866566150?t=R9M1KFga1wKiUolsoZbbnw&s=19

[Crazed_Insanity]

I wish he would give us a link to the source of that statistics. African Americans vs Americans…

Anyway, considering fighting for higher min wage is equally as unlikely as fighting for voting rights, I wish Biden fought harder on min wage. Then the senate minority turtle might utter the statistics of poor Americans making just as much money as other Americans.

I have to stress again, when it comes to choosing bread or rights, bread should have higher priority. As more Americans get hungrier and angrier, better the odds for Trump.

[FaultyMario]

politicians make a living keeping the masses poor and fighting among themselves.

[Crazed_Insanity]

GOP feeds on corporate America money and disgruntled american votes, who want better lives.

Dems feed on corporate America money and disgruntled 'minority' americans who want equal rights.

So in terms of money, the two parties are probably equally rich. However, dems are at a disadvantage trying to win elections from votes from 'minorities'!!! Dems should easily win if everyone in America is well off enough to be concerned with other americans, but when time is bad, who really care about of rights of others? And how can you win elections if you're only catering to minorities in such a time like this?

Voting rights definitely should be improved, but there are a LOT of other things that need improving too. Like I said, I wish Biden fought as hard for min wage increase just as he's doing for voting rights. That way, even if he fails, at least you'll probably still win more of voter's hearts. I really hope he learned some lessons here... Anyway, Biden probably has already saved America a lot of money by ending a forever war. Hope he'll also start thinking about saving 'majority' of Americans rather just minorities. When majority of americans are suffering, it's probably not a good time to focus on minorities too much... We're not a true democracy, but we are still kind of a democracy. Will keep praying for Biden...

[FaultyMario]

"same rights for others does not mean less rights for you. it's not pie, you know?".

or however the meme goes.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Equal rights is definitely a good ideal for us to aim for, but for a party that claims to be more pragmatic, what’s the point of equal rights when you’re living under poverty or addicted to meds or jobless or …

[FaultyMario]

mmm i don't think you understand the concept of a legal right.

if a right is recognized by the laws of a State, that State has to ensure that the people for whom that right applies can fully exercise it. it must then use all the tools at its disposal to protect that right. that's why LBJ sent the national guard to Arkansas.

[Rare White Ape]

I'm sure I've told you this before, but the whole "we can't have X because we still need to fix Y" is widely regarded as nonsense. It is such a bullshit reason for not doing things, and you need to let go of it.

It is why governments have separate departments to deal with separate parts of society.

*POINTS AT SIGN*

[FaultyMario]

No, Mr. Biden everything south of the U.S.-Mexico border is not somebody's yard. Each one of us are independent States. You can take your Monroe doctrine and shove it up your backyard.



You can look for the clip wherever videos are sold.

[2ndMoparMan]

Manchin and Sinemma are fucking oxygen thieves.

[Crazed_Insanity]

*POINTS AT SIGN*

There are definitely a lot of nonsense going on. Neither x nor y could be done; however, Biden fought harder on one than the other. I just wish it’s the other way around. Please note that Biden didn’t fight for both min wage and voting rights equally. Both were unlikely to pass, but WH made a much bigger fuss over voting rights. If you at least pretend to want to increase min wage, you could possibly score some points from conservative voters even if you lose. With this voting right thing, you just won’t win any points from moderates/conservatives even if you win.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No, Mr. Biden everything south of the U.S.-Mexico border is not somebody's yard. Each one of us are independent States. You can take your Monroe doctrine and shove it up your backyard.



You can look for the clip wherever videos are sold.

I haven’t seen any clips nor have I watched Biden’s press conference.

Anyway, I did not realize the Monroe doctrine is that offensive to you guys south of the border…

[neanderthal]

Equal rights is definitely a good ideal for us to aim for, but for a party that claims to be more pragmatic, what’s the point of equal rights when you’re living under poverty or addicted to meds or jobless or …

You've clearly never been oppressed. It shows in your constant shit posting.

What's the point of equal rights he asks. Talks a big game about elevating the working class but asks what's the point of equal rights?!? Consider my mind boggled.

It's enough to want to go back to Zimbabwe where I had limited internet and didn't have to read such shit.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You read my words as if I’m against equal rights. I’m asking you what’s the point of having equal rights if more and more Americans are falling into poverty and addiction? What’s the point of giving a person more rights if he’s hungry?

Passage of voting rights bill won’t even change how the police/justice system treats black people. BLM wasn’t even protesting about their votes being suppressed, right?

[neanderthal]

You read my words as if I’m against equal rights. I’m asking you what’s the point of having equal rights if more and more Americans are falling into poverty and addiction? What’s the point of giving a person more rights if he’s hungry?

Passage of voting rights bill won’t even change how the police/justice system treats black people. BLM wasn’t even protesting about their votes being suppressed, right?

If equal rights don't exist then you have 2nd class, 3rd, and other class citizens. Some of whom "should" be living in poverty. Because that's their class.

Jesus you're a real fucking moron.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dude, you are missing the point.

When you meet someone really really hungry in the middle of nowhere, would you give that person your bread or your money(or voting rights)?

Raising min wage had much wider voter support than improving voting rights. Both were equally impossible to pass in the senate. I just wish Biden had fought as hard for min wage as voting rights.

It’d be much better to make Mitch look like a stingy turtle against the working class rather than just make him look like a racist. Making him look like a racist won’t help you win any Republican votes I don’t think. In fact, they’re probably happy For Brandon that his voting rights went nowhere.

[FaultyMario]

Newly-inaugurated president Gabriel Boric Font has appointed Maya Fernández Allende as the Minister of the Armed Forces of Chile.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJqCnNEWQAIn5Gd.jpg

Yes, her.



Kissinger and all his goons must be chuffed.

[FaultyMario]

Salvador Allende is one of the lay saints of our patria grande (great fatherland), in case you're wondering of the importance.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Have you guys seen all the publicity about the M&M makeovers? About making them M&M characters less sexy or more up to date? It's interesting why a giant chocolate company is so concerned about the image of their chocolaty characters that they probably spent a lot of money to make the changes... not to mention we have both Stephan Colbert and Tucker Carlson mocking such changes on their shows...

However, we Americans don't really care most of the chocolates we love to eat came from slave child labors from Africa! Even the supreme court ruled 8:1 that US chocolate companies cannot be responsible for the little children forced to pick beans in Africa. Not our problem. We just eat a lot of the damn thing... and we only need to talk about how we should draw our chocolates. Hey, no hard feelings, we don't even care if our own workers have living wages or not... why the heck should we care about child slave labors in Africa, right? Maybe if CCP takes over Africa then maybe we'll care? Oh, btw, at least we freed our slaves. That counts for something, right? :rolleyes:

Both party leaders, I guess even our supreme court, are only interested in BS political fights and not really interested in solving actual problems because the rich has grabbed all of them by the balls or pussies...

I'm still hoping Biden won't disappoint me for the next 3 years. Hey, I don't need him to actually succeed... just like Bernie Sanders appears to be a failure if you only look at accomplishments... I just want politicians who'll actually fight for the people so that at least we can be more hopeful about our future...

Let's go Biden! Forget about voter approval nor seeking reelection. Please do the right things and keep on the fight for the people who needs your help!

[Tom Servo]

I kinda hope you get that Colbert and Carlson were coming from very different angles here. Colbert was making fun of the fact that it was a news story at all, Carlson was mad because he can no longer get hard when he looks at the green one.

But I think the most salient point here is that nobody here cared. Just like most of the country. A company did a thing. So what? Why has it even been brought up here?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Of course Colbert and tucker see different angles… anyway, the fact that a company would invest money on such thing is indicative of enough of the public probably do actually care, so their PR dept probably suggested the change? Or maybe they’re trying to push certain agendas? Or they just have too much money and time to burn?

Anyway, it’d be nice if we actually care more for the slave child labors. But who has time for them and all our essential labors?

Although our govt failed to raise min wage, I think God or market forces have cause a bit of rise in min wage anyways. I’ve see a lot more stores closing due to lack of staff. Also seeing wanted signs on store front indicating that their base pay will be a lot higher than min wage… the pandemic induced great resignation isn’t all bad I guess…

[Leon]

It's advertising for lollies.

If a company wants to do it, it's their friggen company.

If people can see representation of people (?) they relate to in said lollies, cool.

As usual, a whole lotta old white dudes need to take a breath (coming from a dude who is very white, and coming up on 50 way too quickly).

[Tom Servo]

How much money do you think they invested in a pretty minor redesign? Do you think they did it because of wokeness, or because they thought it might get them more business? Do you think a company the size of M&M Mars would do something out of anything outside of them running through various focus groups and market research and thinking that it would make them more money?

My inclination is wondering why you've brought up something that's barely newsworthy unless you're Tucker Carlson and super upset that you can't jack off to M&M commercials anymore, but I think maybe you were saying that you'd like to see the media focus more on the plight of child laborers that help us make our treats rather than on the advertising campaigns of those treat purveyors?

In that case, I think we'd all agree. If I'm right, maybe try to dance around it less. Colbert made jokes about how inane it is vs. Carlson being sad that he no longer feels his dick twinge when he sees an M&M's ad - mentioning the two of them focused attention on a non-issue and completely obfuscated what I think was your point. If I'm right about your point, almost your entire post just danced around making that actual point. A point that I think most of us would agree with.

If I'm wrong, well... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Crazed_Insanity]

You got my point. However I didn’t think I was dancing around but actually pointing out why a candy company think it’s necessary to make such tweaks and why do we need so much free publicity for that? Naturally Colbert could only make fun of such absurdity, but it gave more fuel for tucker to set bigger fires at liberals…

Anyway, glad at least you got and agree with my point. I just thought our nation is pretty fucked up… wish leadership will someday grow a heart somehow… voting is just futile at the moment. When Bernie dies, I’m not sure if I’d ever want to vote anymore. Hope I will eventually find the next Bernie. I thought Andrew Yang was it, but he’s been a let down…

[Tom Servo]

Looks like Tucker and Stephen did their bits on the same day, so it's hard to blame one or the other for it.

Reading it again, I get what you were leading up to. I honestly can't re-read it without thinking you're trying to draw a comparison between those two rather than the point you're going for. I think you're right, you're not dancing around it, but you're sorta meandering towards it. Maybe lead with the point, then follow it up with the rest? "This M&M distraction bugs me - I wish we'd focus on the child labor involved in making the candy we eat here instead of amplifying an ultimately pointless ad messaging change."

I dunno - I have to admit I see your posts with a jaundiced eye, but even after re-reading a few times it's a pretty circuitous route to get to the main gist.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I do appreciate you taking the time and effort to even try to get my point. You’ve already given up on Jordan Peterson, who probably doesn’t have as much trouble communicating his thoughts as I do!

I guess years of virtual friendship is still capable of overcoming some ’ jaundice eye’! :p

Cool. That made me feel a bit better. Thanks.

[Rare White Ape]

I see Billi's posts with a serious case of PINK EYE, but this is one time when it was actually worth clicking the 'view post' button. Billi is spot-on about the whole child slave labour thing and how it SHOULD be on the companies selling products in any market to ensure that they meet certain standards of ethical conduct.

That was, until the non-sequitur towards Biden appeared. Everything after that was all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I know Biden has nothing to do with the less sexier M&Ms, but he does represent my last hope for US politics.

Anyway, to me, there are no MORE important issues than actually help mending people's lives. Min wage should trump filibuster/voting rights. Saving child slave labors should trump climate change. However, in our current trumpian world, we actually have them in reverse! Seriously, what's the point of voting rights if you're still hungry and being treated differently by the police? What's the point of a beautiful clean planet when there are still child slaves?

Biden has only surprised me once by pulling out of a forever war. Although that didn't need congressional approval, but I'm pretty sure the big defense contractors didn't want him to do that..., but he did it anyways. That gave me a glimmer of hope for his presidency. Maybe he is capable of doing the right thing sometimes. I'm just hoping and praying that he'll focus more on those more 'important' issues in the next 3 years and just not worry about popularity and reelection and playing stupid politics... Making green M&M less sexier would fall into the stupid politics category... and that's why even Colbert mocked that! Yeah, big candy companies have the right to do whatever they want with their image and their profits, I'm not going to interfere with that. However, I do think it's a sign that we as a society are entering into the 'let them eat cake' stage as the wealth gap continues to widen... our rich elites are increasingly out of touch with reality, as with our politicians.

Now, is the solution to end capitalism? No... we just need to end corruption somehow.

[Tom Servo]

I'm unrolling this thread from Julian Sanches (@normative on Twitter). It feels somewhat like it's a fit for the pandemic thread, but I think it fits better in the politics one, as conspiracy theorists seem to be taking over. It came in response to this image:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJzkYTlWQAUudY5?format=jpg&name=medium



I saw this nonsense floating around a conspiracy nut board, and it made something click for me: These folks are basically operating on cinematic epistemology. They believe what would be true if the news were a Hollywood movie.

One of the most common refrains on Qanon forums is "we're watching a movie" (like, they literally think major events are being faked by the White Hats as a kind of elaborate morality play to gradually "enlighten" the masses). But they're more broadly operating on movie logic.

In the real world, a tiny handful of scientists (mostly undistinguished or long past their prime) loudly bucking an overwhelming consensus of experts are going to be cranks, grifters, or just plain wrong 99% of the time. But in a movie (cf. "Don't Look Up") that's the hero! Seriously, when was the last time you saw a movie where the scrappy outsider with a wild theory bucking the expert consensus was, in fact, just a crank? Never, because that's boring. And it's boring because that's...normal reality.

You sort of have to wonder if mass entertainment hasn't tilled the soil for the current explosion of conspiracy theories. For decades Hollywood has fed us the appealing fantasy that YOU--seemingly average viewer--may secretly be the World's Most Special Boy (or, less often, Girl). And then the vast majority of viewers grow up to find that, no, you're pretty normal. You're not the Chosen One, or otherwise terribly remarkable. You are not the protagonist. And most of us just sort of make our peace with this fact, and with a little luck find lower-key localized triumphs to be satisfied with. But if you don't or can't, there are conspiracy communities eager to provide you with a way to be the Specialist Boy after all.

The normies are brainwashed, while you and your scrappy band of rebels have pierced the veil of illusion. And you don't have to feel bad about not being as successful or educated or powerful as folks on TV, because in fact all those people are STUPID or CORRUPT.

To be clear: The point isn't that expert consensus can't be wrong--anyone can think of tons of examples. The mistake I'm calling "cinematic epistemology" consists of assuming the scrappy outsiders are more likely to be right JUST BECAUSE they're the outsiders.


I found it reasonably insightful in a lot of the stuff I follow. So much of this is about being the hero with the secret knowledge.

[FaultyMario]

Somewhat agree with the premise. But I feel it has a lot of nuances and that pushes it more towards behavioral ethics than politics or policies.

[Rare White Ape]

It's a really shitty film and it goes on and on forever and its fandom is the worst.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Such movie logic is like archetype of good vs evil… underdog vs some overwhelming giant…

David vs Goliath, Jesus vs religious establishment, Luke Skywalker vs the empire, neo vs matrix…

Such archetypes are ingrained in all of us so when we see such stories unfold, we can’t help but cheer for the good underdog as they kick ass! I think only movies with archetypal stories will achieve box office success because it’ll resonate with most audiences.

IMHO, one way to stop this movie logic is to make America smaller again! Anything too big to fail should be broken up into smaller pieces. US government should try to not look too much like the bully established empire who’s connected to everything around the globe… and consuming most of the worlds resources.

US government just doesn’t look good no matter how you look at it. Even when Obama was in office, he didn’t really feel all that trustworthy to me. Why couldn’t we get to the bottom of financial crisis? Why couldn’t we hear what Snowden has to say?

I can’t blame the conspiracy theorists. Sure, they’re idiots, but just saying I get them.

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/australasia/article/3165283/pregnant-new-zealander-offered-refuge-taliban-after-being

Pregnant New Zealander denied re-entry, offered refuge by Taliban

Incredible achievement by Billi's favourite system of government!!! Soon he and his Brainwashed Bros Will Soon Rejoice when Trump wins and pardons all of the Capitol rioters!!!! Lolllllll

[Crazed_Insanity]

Fascinating, when did NZ become MAGA Billian?

Why didn’t CCP offer assistance and poor gal had to turn to Taliban?

[Leon]

It's really really really really hard to get into NZ right now, as you have to go into quarantine, and there are only limited spots.

This journalist is the same as multiple thousands of Kiwis, only she has access to journalist buddies to dramatise her case for her to force politicians hands.

[Yw-slayer]

Wait wait wait. Are you saying that the MEDIA ARE NOT FULLY OBJECTIVE?!??!???NO WAY, BRO?!?!!????!?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wait,wait, wait, You were saying NZ loves Trump and Billi and Taliban is awesome, right?

[Leon]

Wait wait wait. Are you saying that the MEDIA ARE NOT FULLY OBJECTIVE?!??!???NO WAY, BRO?!?!!????!?

Inconthievable!

[Rare White Ape]

Part of me is beginning to think that Billi is just a badly programmed AI word salad generator that someone has let loose in the politics, COVID and F1 threads.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What about the other part of you? What does he think? :p

[Rare White Ape]

The other part of me doesn't think about you at all.

[Crazed_Insanity]

:(

[Rare White Ape]

So a few days ago I mentioned that HMAS Adelaide, which was delivering supplies to Tonga after the volcanic eruption, was suffering a COVID outbreak among the crew.

Well, this week the ship has been stricken with a total power failure and is being towed to Fiji. The crew are sleeping on the top deck at night because there is no air conditioning, they are shitting in buckets, and the food will run out soon because the refrigerators aren't working and they only have a day-or-so worth of rations.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-31/hmas-adelaide-loses-power-tonga-mission-volcano/100793112

[Dicknose]

oi oi oi

[Rare White Ape]

Another fantastic page in Australia's history, brought to you by Thunderbolt Ironbark

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2022-01-31/gofundme-freezes-canberra-covid-truck-convoy-money/100792930?fbclid=IwAR1qJr_QkIWDbe5T0YEv0DL8-FleIYuKn1fYkxsk-lsEsgLIdcXGw1gJqqU

[sandydandy]

Four days into February and this thread is eerily silent.

I saw a clip of Mike Pence saying what everyone already knows, which is that “President Trump was wrong” in thinking that the VP had the power to overturn the election. He went on to say other seemingly sensible things, and the crowd was silent. They only cheered at the end when he said that Kamala Harris will also have no right to change the result of the 2024 election “when we beat them!” Nice recovery.

The Vice Poodle. I love it when Kimmel calls him that. :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Gee, with Billi, it’s too noisy, without Billi it’s too quiet… what should we do? :p

Anyway, at least our ex vice poodle has some integrity. I think he probably had it and didn’t want to be a poodle no more? Otherwise he would’ve helped Trump back in office. He is one true FREEDUMB fighter I tell ya!

[MR2 Fan]

some good things are happening right now....a few states have blocked heavily gerrymandered GOP district maps which helps make elections more fair.....Trump's influence is finally waning now that people realize he's in deep shit from a number of angles....but it's going to take time and there is going to be a lot of infighting.

[Yw-slayer]

It doesn't matter, because to Brainwashed Billi and his Bros, anything is better than "the OTHER". Even living in a place full of Trumpeo-lovers and MAGA-ites. And they're the ones who, while truly brainwashed, will bleat the most about freedom. :lol:

[FaultyMario]

Comic Nicole Byer posted this to twitter.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FK7-fdYXwAY_M80.png

I absolutely agree with it.

[Phil_SS]

Yep. No different than any of the FOX News stooges etc. Whether they believe or not they are just playing a role to make money.

[sandydandy]

More freedom convoy bullshit going on here in different cities all across the country. Ottawa has declared a state of emergency because these idiots won't go home. It's become exhausting now. If it were a BLM protest they would be shut down on day 2.

One of my friends is going insane in our group chat. I spoke about him before how he was talking a lot of QAnonsense on US election night, (Biden being a pedo and Hillary eating children), he's now kicked it in high gear. 100% Roofer stuff. He's willing to throw away decades of friendship because of his love for fake news, which he gets from places like Rebel Media, which is the Canadian equivalent of Alex Jones Infowars. Calls us brainwashed by CBC...similar to how Roofer would say we're brainwashed by CNN.

We had it out with him last night, and it's just a matter of time before he's out of our lives. I feel sad...but I pity him more. This exact scenario is happening in friend circles all over the world, I think. But mostly in the west. It really sucks.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Speaking of roofer, I think he quit FB? Hope he's okay. I don't see him anymore...

Anyway, just try your best to be a friend and not judge. If he insists on cancelling the friendship because he sees you as an enemy now, then so be it. However, don't be the 1st one to give up on a crazy friend.

Lastly, 80% of Canadians are vaccinated and there's really no reason to believe without a mandate, the number would drop. JT should just drop the mandate. What's the point of paralyzing your nation for insisting on a mandate which Canada probably doesn't even need?

Even WHO does NOT recommend vaccine mandates. I believe WHO suggest it only as a last resort to increase upticks..., but I think it's beginning to have a downtick effect amongst the freedumb crowd. Also, why should the entire nation's supply chain be paralyzed while trying to vaccinate them truckers? Just let them live the way they want. Vaccinated folks are already protected.

[sandydandy]

Roofer's still on FB. I think he dropped you. Maybe you were annoying him. :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

What?!?!?! What did I do? :p

Anyway, I engaged. Won't always work, but at least I tried.

[Yw-slayer]

Wait wait wait. Where are Billi's Brainwashed Bros fighting for freedom convoy right to protest and suggesting revolution to overthrow oppressive govt etc.? Why are they so silent, when all they could do on 2019 was wail? Or rather, why was wailing about stuff in 2019 worthy of msm fawning and thousands of congratulatory masturbatory pieces, but wailing about the lack of freedom in Canada in 2022... apparently isn't? Answers on a postcard...

[Tom Servo]

Saw that it sounds like a couple of the guys from the trucker convoy tried to burn down an apartment building after taping the doors shut in retaliation for some of the people living there screaming at them at 4am to stop honking.

The good news is they caught the two guys on surveillance cameras, so hopefully they'll catch them soon enough.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I haven't paid much attention to Canadian politics..., but just wondering what is JT planning to do?

Either continue the mandate and send in the military to crackdown on the protestors, or forget about the mandate and ask the truckers to go home and get back to work.

It seems to me JT is just sitting idly by and not responding at all and hoping these crazy truckers would just get tired and hungry and go home? Is there a Canadian equivalent of a "Trump" who could tweet out to ask them to go home?

Feel bad for those living near by getting harassed by truckers without any protection from the government.

[Yw-slayer]

Saw that it sounds like a couple of the guys from the trucker convoy tried to burn down an apartment building after taping the doors shut in retaliation for some of the people living there screaming at them at 4am to stop honking.

The good news is they caught the two guys on surveillance cameras, so hopefully they'll catch them soon enough.

Wait wait wait, this is good news? According to Billi's Brainwashed Bros and their fawning media, this would be a sign of oppression by an evil government and time for a bunch of badly-written circle jerk-posts about how it is real-life Hunger Games, Braveheart etc. etc. Not t o mention a bunch of false accusations about how the truckers were being disappeared and sner to concentration camps, alongside the "suspiciously rising so-called suicide rate".

[MR2 Fan]

The Jan 6th commission is uncovering more and more GOP members who were involved or at least knew about the planning....makes me wonder what happens if/when the committee finds out that possibly dozens and dozens of sitting congresspeople were involved...what happens then?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Probably nothing.

[MR2 Fan]

It looks like they are at least trying to prevent those people from being able to run for re-election, Madison Cawthorn for starters in his home state

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not sure on what legal grounds can commission force somebody to not run for reelection? If they have the power to do that, why couldn't they just stop the source? Stop Trump from running for reelection?

Anyway, I think all of the GOP folks who spoke out against Trump have either disappeared or retiring(not seeking reelection) or repented. So next time around, there might be no GOP politicians left to make the claim that their emporer's wearing no cloths...

Anyway, it's interesting Mitch criticized and repudiated the RNC... I guess he figured he's old and probably will retire soon and didn't want to be on the wrong side of history?

If the investigation resulted with nothing solid against Trump, then hopefully voters will do the right thing. But then again, if DNC presents Kamala to go against Trump... then pretty sure Kamala will end up like Hillary. Not because of their gender, but because of what they represent.

[Yw-slayer]

Does it matter? Because according to Brainwashed Billi, you just need to let people choose. Because they always make the right choice WHICH IS NO DOUBT HOW DONALD TRUMP GOT ELECTED AS PRESIDENT OF THE USA AND THE CAPITOL GOT INVADED, INCREDIBLE ACHIEVEMENT THERE!!!! LOLLLLLLLLL

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wise choice is better than poor choice. Poor lousy choice is still better than no choice.

Whether it's going right toward Hitler and Trump... or going left toward Marx and Mao... either way leads us to no choices.

So we all have to learn to make wiser choices. Only in a free society can people learn to make proper choices. Governments should minimize making choices for its citizens and treating them as babies. Citizens need to learn to grow up and own up to their own lives. Sure, there'll be growing pains, but that growth will be worth it. No pain no gain dude!

If Americans just refuse to learn and insist on making America great again Hitler style..., then hopefully China will step in and save the world? Thanks in advance for that YW!

[Tom Servo]

Some bit of polling must have just recently changed or something. Only a short time after the GOP called January 6th "legitimate political discourse" and censured Cheney and Kinzinger, suddenly people like Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy, and Marco Rubio are now calling it a violent insurrection. Wonder what it was that triggered this sudden about-face...

[FaultyMario]

Some bit of polling must have just recently changed or something. Only a short time after the GOP called January 6th "legitimate political discourse" and censured Cheney and Kinzinger, suddenly people like Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy, and Marco Rubio are now calling it a violent insurrection. Wonder what it was that triggered this sudden about-face...

Maybe Republics became worried the tomato cops with their cucumber sticks (https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/status/1491525010997096449) will throw them in a Gulag prison.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/10/congress-sexual-harassment-metoo-00007493

Wow. Just when I had lost virtually all faith in our government, the 2 parties are able to have a proper bipartisan response to the 'me too' movement. Really impressed. Yeah, it took 4 years, but better late than never.

Almost seems too good to be true. Am I missing something? ;)

I just hope this new law will indeed make things more transparent and ensure that proper justice be served.

[Yw-slayer]

https://news.yahoo.com/pressure-trudeau-trucker-protests-spark-181307161.html

Wait wait wait. Shouldn't there be a ton of articles in the press about how the "freedom convoy" are peacefully protesting for freedom against an authoritarian regime? And why were there no such articles when the Capitol was peacefully invaded on 6 Jan 2021? Or could the lack of such articles be due to the subjective perspective of the Western media, and/or the US and Canadian govts being Bros for life? HMMMM LET ME THINK

[FaultyMario]

I got a sms from my service provider's news service.


Ukraine can be invaded AT ANY MOMENT!


ffs, people. War is not a fucking tv show.

[Yw-slayer]

But sabre-rattling by painting everyone else as EVILDOERS is a good way to keep brainwashed Bros in thrall!!

[neanderthal]

Gee, with Billi, it’s too noisy, without Billi it’s too quiet… what should we do? :p

Anyway, at least our ex vice poodle has some integrity. I think he probably had it and didn’t want to be a poodle no more? Otherwise he would’ve helped Trump back in office. He is one true FREEDUMB fighter I tell ya!

He goes billi rushing to ascribe some <checks notes> integrity to Mike Pence when Pence has had an entire fucking year to say something and hasn't. Like I've always said, never the same fire for the GQP. billi and the media are always happy to tolerate and even celebrate the barest minimum from RepublicQns.

[neanderthal]

The Jan 6th commission is uncovering more and more GOP members who were involved or at least knew about the planning....makes me wonder what happens if/when the committee finds out that possibly dozens and dozens of sitting congresspeople were involved...what happens then?


It looks like they are at least trying to prevent those people from being able to run for re-election, Madison Cawthorn for starters in his home state

14th Amendment.


No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.

They need to be law and ordered the fuck out of Congress.

[Crazed_Insanity]

He goes billi rushing to ascribe some <checks notes> integrity to Mike Pence when Pence has had an entire fucking year to say something and hasn't. Like I've always said, never the same fire for the GQP. billi and the media are always happy to tolerate and even celebrate the barest minimum from RepublicQns.
Dude, if it weren’t for Mike Pence, dictator Trump would be in charge right now!

Also, not sure if I was celebrating anything. Just stating the fact that at least Pence has some integrity left.

Nice to have you back btw, where have you been? I kinda missed you. :p

[Yw-slayer]

No doubt Billi is rejoicing at the French "freedom convoy" invading Paris and stuff!!! And also at the guy who decided to try and set a HK covid testing tent on fire today!

[neanderthal]

Dude, if it weren’t for Mike Pence, dictator Trump would be in charge right now!

Also, not sure if I was celebrating anything. Just stating the fact that at least Pence has some integrity left.

Nice to have you back btw, where have you been? I kinda missed you. :p

"Dude, if it wasn't for me, you would be dead now." Says man who mugged you and claims his partner in crime wanted to rob you, then kill you. :rolleyes: Color me unimpressed by his sudden bout of decency.

[mk]

I got a sms from my service provider's news service.


Ukraine can be invaded AT ANY MOMENT!


ffs, people. War is not a fucking tv show.

No, but Putin brought up the context.

What then when NATO Ukraine goes to Crimea.

[Crazed_Insanity]

"Dude, if it wasn't for me, you would be dead now." Says man who mugged you and claims his partner in crime wanted to rob you, then kill you. :rolleyes: Color me unimpressed by his sudden bout of decency.

Well, not sure how Pence suddenly turned. I don’t agree with his conservative stance but I think at least he’s a truer Christian than Trump. Trump became a born again most likely for political reasons.

[Rare White Ape]

No doubt Billi is rejoicing at the French "freedom convoy" invading Paris and stuff!!! And also at the guy who decided to try and set a HK covid testing tent on fire today!

There are similar convoys happening around the world. Our Canberra convoy is struggling with a lack of facilities (plus the show ground they’re occupying needs to be vacated by this afternoon) and this has caused an outbreak of Norovirus and pink eye. There are also reports of people contracting UTIs. There is a ‘medical’ tent that is providing herbal remedies.

All in the fight against COVID vaccination mandates.

[FaultyMario]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMxyli1zat8

[Crazed_Insanity]

It’s interesting Ukraine president believes there’s no need to panic! Russia is also insisting they won’t invade.

So it seemed like it’s the US causing the panic?

US should just chill and wait for president of Ukraine’s call for help?

[Yw-slayer]

There are similar convoys happening around the world. Our Canberra convoy is struggling with a lack of facilities (plus the show ground they’re occupying needs to be vacated by this afternoon) and this has caused an outbreak of Norovirus and pink eye. There are also reports of people contracting UTIs. There is a ‘medical’ tent that is providing herbal remedies.

All in the fight against COVID vaccination mandates.

Oh, I know. He should be rejoicing at the "peaceful protests/fight for freeeeeedommmm". Or is he not, because when it happens "at home" (like the Capitol roots) it's a riot/insurrection inconveniencing everyone, while on the one hand, when it happens in "other places" it's "peaceful protesting/fighting for freeeeeeedommm"??? And if so, COULD IT BE HYPOCRISY, THE SUBJECTIVE MEDIA AGENDA, OR BOTH??!???? HMMM ONE WONDERS

[Rare White Ape]

One does indeed wonder. A lot...

https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/02/10/fake-international-facebook-accounts-convoy-canberra-protests/

[Rare White Ape]

https://i.imgur.com/soeJNQE.jpg

[Leon]

the Flu Trucks Clan are camped outside Parliament in Wellington.

In other news, it is the second wettest Wellington day in years, with the tail end of a tropical cyclone hanging around, and Parliament's sound system is cranking out Baby Shark, You're Beautiful (after James Blunt offered in a tweet), that Titanic song (but the version where it is played on a recorder), and the Macarena.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of simpletons.

[Tom Servo]

That's...that's beautiful.

[Leon]

It isn't achieving anything at all, but it is giving most of the rest of Wellington a huge measure of satisfaction knowing that the idiots are suffering discomfort. Given that they're causing considerable traffic disruption around that area of town.

[Tom Servo]

There's been some worry about disruptions to the Super Bowl tomorrow but everything I'm seeing seems way too disorganized to get anything together by then.

Anyway, the Super Bowl has caused enough traffic disruption out here I doubt we'd notice much else.

[Rare White Ape]

Hey, LA is built specifically to create traffic anyway so... :shrug:

[Rare White Ape]

Here's something that happened in Canberra...

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=659235588452858&extid=CL-UNK-UNK-UNK-AN_GK0T-GK1C&ref=sharing

[Leon]

that went well

[Yw-slayer]

Billi is outraged that no one is supporting these "brave freedom fighters and free thinkers", as he would probably describe them.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes! ‘Ronas can take our lives, but they will never take away our FREEDUMB!!!

[Tom Servo]

Hey, LA is built specifically to create traffic anyway so... :shrug:

Surprisingly, today's been really quiet on the roads. Went to go get lunch and the roads are pretty empty, though the people driving on them are being especially dumb.

[sandydandy]

Around here the police finally cleared the bozo blockade in front of the Ambassador bridge between Windsor and Detroit.

I think there’s also something going on at the Peace bridge (Fort Erie-Buffalo). I saw on Buffalo news that a convoy is coming up from Nashville to block the bridge on the Buffalo side.

What have these Canadian freedumb fighters unleashed upon the world?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wait, wait, wait... you Canadians can't take credit for being freedumb fighters okay? It all started from the land of the free! Home of the dumb! :D

But seriously though, I do believe vaccine mandate is not something worth fighting for. 1st of all, it's not like we have enough vaccines for everyone in the world, 2nd, those vaccinated are protected enough already. For those immune compromised, it's not like they'll be completely safe with vaccinated people. They'll be stuck with masks if they want to go out. Either way, this fight is kinda stupid IMHO. It seems like the 2 sides are just fighting for the sake of fighting. What does science tell us, what is WHO recommending? Vaccine mandates? If not, why do we need to pick a fight against stupid people and risk disrupting everyone's life?

Speaking of the possibility of a real war, it seems Russia is not poised to launch an attack and Ukraine seems okay with being taken over. It's as if US is the only nation drumming for possible war...

Anyway, not really sure what the heck is going on there, but still hoping we won't get dragged into another stupid war. Ukrainians need to be clearer what they want. Join NATO or join Russia... so that their Olympians can represent themselves properly.

[sandydandy]

Trudeau has just enacted the “Emergencies Act” for the first time in Canada, in order to clear the protesters out. Basically he’s now Emperor Palpatine. At least that’s how it’s being spun by right-wing media and their clueless devotees. People are livid…imagining their freedoms are under attack even more now.

I’d laugh heartily if Trudeau still got re-elected after this, which is for sure in the realm of possibility, as the Conservatives haven’t been able to field a decent candidate in years. Though I do like this new Pierre guy. Hopefully he doesn’t have any skkkeletons in his closet, or I’ll be voting for Trudeau yet again.

If he wins again then I imagine there will be mass emigration back to Europe. At least that’s the hope. :P

[Tom Servo]

Interesting seeing a bunch of the right-wing pundits running around calling the super bowl halftime show "pornography" and "sexual anarchy." I can see a bunch of reasons why the right-wing might dislike that show, but that's not the angle I'd expect after watching it.

[sandydandy]

A lot of people are upset at Eminem for kneeling. :|

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, that doesn't shock me. It's the "that was too sexy" angle that I just am struggling to get.

[Tom Servo]

Also, loving the NY Post with the scoop that Snoop Dogg smoked weed before performing.

[sandydandy]

Hmm…I didn’t think Dr. Dre was that sexy. :lol:

Does Snoop Dogg even eat food? Or is he one of those lucky bastards blessed with a high metabolism?


Also, loving the NY Post with the scoop that Snoop Dogg smoked weed before performing. Yet nothing on him Crip walking on stage? Haha.

[Tom Servo]

Hmm…I didn’t think Dr. Dre was that sexy. :lol:


Hahah - I actually probably related more to Dre than I ever have in the past watching him sorta ease himself on and off that piano bench. I'm like "I know your pain, buddy."

[Yw-slayer]

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/trudeau-wants-the-foreign-money-funding-illegal-protests-in-canada-to-stop

"Trudeau wants the 'foreign money' funding illegal protests in Canada to stop"

Certain countries and their people funding protests abroad... HMMM WHERE HAVE WR HEARD THIS BEFORE? I WONDER

[FaultyMario]

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/trudeau-wants-the-foreign-money-funding-illegal-protests-in-canada-to-stop

"Trudeau wants the 'foreign money' funding illegal protests in Canada to stop"

Certain countries and their people funding protests abroad... HMMM WHERE HAVE WR HEARD THIS BEFORE? I WONDER

I was going to say...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWTrH8e1wQ

Either Canada is an authoritarian regime like China or China is not really the wolf the MSM has cried about.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interesting seeing a bunch of the right-wing pundits running around calling the super bowl halftime show "pornography" and "sexual anarchy." I can see a bunch of reasons why the right-wing might dislike that show, but that's not the angle I'd expect after watching it.

Not a fan of rap music, but don’t recall seeing anything pornographic. Maybe the words rapper used were? But I just didn’t pay much attention… :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

I was going to say...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWTrH8e1wQ

Either Canada is an authoritarian regime like China or China is not really the wolf the MSM has cried about.

Surely there’s nuance in there some where?

Vaccine mandate is indeed more like authoritarianism.

Any nation that has a huge military build up is potentially a wolf, including the US.

[Yw-slayer]

Either Canada is an authoritarian regime like China or China is not really the wolf the MSM has cried about.

HMMMMMMM YEAHHH I WONDERRRRRRRRRRR

[dodint]

Interesting seeing a bunch of the right-wing pundits running around calling the super bowl halftime show "pornography" and "sexual anarchy." I can see a bunch of reasons why the right-wing might dislike that show, but that's not the angle I'd expect after watching it.

The Right likes to frame everything as pedophilia to rile up the base, while at the same time sending campaign donation checks to Matt Gaetz.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/27/1076199817/where-president-zelenskys-popularity-stands-with-people-in-ukraine

Heard this NPR report regarding Ukraine... I guess their new president is as if we elected Jon Stewart as president with his newly established Daily Show Party. Campaigned to end previously corrupt politicians and won 70% of the votes! However, as time goes on, corruption is back as usual. His poll # is now dwindling down to around 30%, but it's not like Ukrainians have any other better options.

So I guess Putin is probably applying pressure to further erode Zelensky's leadership... considering that this comedian is corruptible enough to ignore his original campaign promises, surely Putin could give him an offer he couldn't refuse to just hand back Ukraine to the motherland... or actually allowing Russians to reclaim their motherland...

Moral of the story is that it'll probably be a losing battle to engage in this war. Also, we probably should never elect celebrities into public offices.

Of course it probably won't be that great for Russia to actually invade too... and this similar theme will likely play out for China and Taiwan eventually. Xi is probably watching closely to see what he can learn from Putin...

[Yw-slayer]

"HOW FACEBOOK TWISTED CANADA’S TRUCKER CONVOY INTO AN INTERNATIONAL MOVEMENT"

https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/19/22941291/facebook-canada-trucker-convoy-gofundme-groups-viral-sharing

HMMM so when stuff happened in 2019 it was presented ENTIRELY DIFFERENTLY and the English language media presentation was all entirely one-sided. ONE WONDERS WHY. COULD IT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH GEOPOLITICS AND CLICKBAIT INFLUENCING THE MEDIA??!??! SURELY NOT?!??!!????

[Yw-slayer]

https://news.yahoo.com/police-close-dislodge-canada-capital-165329974.html

"Show of force in Ottawa as police clear main protest hub"

HMMM WHY IS THERE NO ONE-SIDED NYT WAPO CNN REPORTING THAT THE BRAVE PROTESTERS ARE FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM AGAINST TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT OR SOMETHING??!?? I WONDER WHY??!!?!??

[Tom Servo]

Tulsi Gabbard, ostensibly a democrat, is now one of the speakers at CPAC Florida along with other conservative luminaries such as Donald Trump, Don Jr, Candace Owens, Glenn Beck, Ted Cruz, Nigel Farage, Sean Spicer, Kevin Sorbo, and Sebastian Gorka.

https://cpac.conservative.org/speakers/

How lovely.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ostensibly a quite useless democrat, holding no public office at the moment... :p

Manlychin and Cinema really should be speaking there. I'm sure they will receive loud cheers and applause from the crowd there!

[FaultyMario]

I heard the guy that wanted to make three countries out of Iraq and the guy who can't figure out how disengage from a trade agreement without fucking up Northern Ireland and Scotland are angry about a sovereign nation.

[Yw-slayer]

Meanwhile, I heard that protesters are misbehaving in New Zealand and am waiting in vain for western msm to run fawning circle-jerk articles about them and for Billi to support their freeeeeedodmmmmmm.

[Crazed_Insanity]

FREEDUMB!!!!

Anyway,…


Tulsi Gabbard, ostensibly a democrat, is now one of the speakers at CPAC Florida along with other conservative luminaries such as Donald Trump, Don Jr, Candace Owens, Glenn Beck, Ted Cruz, Nigel Farage, Sean Spicer, Kevin Sorbo, and Sebastian Gorka.

https://cpac.conservative.org/speakers/

How lovely.

Here’s how AOC working with the GOP to force Pelosi to get congressional people to stop trading stocks!

https://theintercept.com/2022/02/09/stock-trading-ban-congress-pelosi-aoc/

Republicans are usually wrong but not always. Likewise dems are usually right but not always. Therefore I’m rarely loyal to any political parties. Do the right thing, and I’ll support you.

[sandydandy]

So the Freedumb protesters in Ottawa have largely been cleared out or locked up. Ottawa police meant business over the weekend and drove the nutjobs out. They even arrested the organizer of the entire thing - this far-right cockroach of a woman named Tamara Lich, who is also a Western separatist. I read that a judge denied her bail. There are some reports of the police using tear gas on the protesters. It's so good. I hope Trudeau gets re-elected after this. He has my vote.

These so-called truckers spent over a month giving real truckers a bad name. Real truckers are the ones out there on the road being productive, moving goods back and forth. Not sitting around blocking traffic and honking their horns for no reason.

So glad this is over. It's an international embarrassment that it was allowed to go on for so long.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think this is what YW's talking about... why the hypocrisy of the West? China can't do this because it violates human rights, but then West could do this proudly?

Of course ideally we should only have peaceful and nondisruptive protests..., but perhaps only Gandhi or MLK types can achieve such ideals. Most protesters do tend to get too emotional and out of control...

Besides hypocrisies between national borders, there can be different sentiments along political borders as well. MAGA protests vs BLM protests... depending on where you stand politically, you may actually cheer when police beat the crap out of one crowd and be upset when it's the other crowd...

Anyway, I'm kinda glad now that our supreme court blocked the vaccine mandate now. At 1st I was like WTF is wrong with our court?!?!? But in retrospect, I'm glad US averted that incident that Canada went thru. Our crazy truckers will have guns too... Well, if they didn't use the opportunity to kill all the liberal congress folks back on Jan 6, maybe they won't be shooting at the police since they are supposed to be on the same side? Anyway, just glad that we Americans don't have to find that out thanks to our court decision...

What a fucked up world we are living in now.

Moral of the story for YW is, China can feel free to do whatever she wants as long as it maintains order and the West can shut up about it. We probably should make the West more like China? Where do we draw that line? When should we copy CCP, when should we be more free? It's tough question I guess. I don't support them Canadian truckers, but I also don't support JT either. Vaccines are definitely helping the fight against this pandemic, but mandates are clearly too hot of a button to keep on pressing... Like I've said before, unless we have a global supply of vaccines that's free for all so that we could end Covid once and for all, having a mandate for indefinite # of flu shots seems to only enrich big pharma. Sure, I'd get flu shots anyways since it's free and it is effective, but leaving your citizens without choice just seems wrong to me. Should societies be free or not that free? Some people are just too stupid, so we can't let them make their own choices? We also need to filter all the info and make sure only good info gets spread around? China is certainly the world's best at doing those things. West really should watch and learn and quit criticizing...

Anyway, glad the Canadian show is over now. Hope nothing will flair up again...

[FaultyMario]

We have all been there. (https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-oklahoma-oklahoma-city-wine-congress-a2fde9506dbccf44fb2f3066645ad8a7)


“The things I’m accused to have said are not who I am. They’re not a reflection of my beliefs at all,” Broyles said. “It’s clear this media smear campaign is politically backed, and I won’t stop fighting [...].”

Right?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, Slumber Party probably won't make it as a viable 3rd party in America.

[Yw-slayer]

Wait, far-right nutjob separatists who claim to love FREEEEDOMMMM? Is that Billi I see lining up behind them to cheer them on? If so, why not? HMMMMM ONE WONDERS

[Tom Servo]

Tucker Carlson is our new Father Coughlin.

https://www.thebulwark.com/father-carlson/

[Crazed_Insanity]

Don't give a rat's ass about Tucker, but is Putin the next Hitler?

Wonder what Putin's really thinking. If Trump were still president now, maybe US would already be out of NATO... I wonder if Putin would still posture this take over of Ukraine? (Since NATO would pretty much dissolve without US involvement?) Of course, not taking over Ukraine now, doesn't mean he won't take it over later... Existence of NATO and Ukraine possibly joining it will cause bigger headache for Putin...

So it increasingly looks like Trump was really 'friendly' with Putin for some reason because at least on this particular issue, Trump would do exactly what Putin would like him to do.

However, I do have to wonder what good is NATO at this point. Does it really matter if Ukraine is a NATO member? It's already currently NOT a memeber and US and NATO allies are all ready to defend it anyways. Similarly with China/Taiwan. Taiwan is not even recognized as a sovereign nation and couldn't even join UN, let along NATO, but if China were to forcibly try to take over, will US do nothing?

In a way I kinda agree with Trump, why do we need NATO? What's so special about North Atlantic/North American nations? Shouldn't UN have similar functions? Fix issues thru diplomacy? If you wish to build a coalition, build that thru UN too. If you're going to war to fight for your interests after diplomacy is exhausted, just go at it. Do we really need NATO today? Seems like it'll likely force another world war if Putin's being stupid.

My guess is that Putin is just posturing all this in order to further weaken Ukraine and US leadership, which had low approval rating to begin with... it'd be really stupid to invade now. Anyway, I'm not Putin, that's why I'm wondering what his real motive is...

[Dicknose]

However, I do have to wonder what good is NATO at this point. Does it really matter if Ukraine is a NATO member? It's already currently NOT a memeber and US and NATO allies are all ready to defend it anyways. Similarly with China/Taiwan. Taiwan is not even recognized as a sovereign nation and couldn't even join UN, let along NATO, but if China were to forcibly try to take over, will US do nothing?

In a way I kinda agree with Trump, why do we need NATO? What's so special about North Atlantic/North American nations? Shouldn't UN have similar functions? Fix issues thru diplomacy? If you wish to build a coalition, build that thru UN too. If you're going to war to fight for your interests after diplomacy is exhausted, just go at it. Do we really need NATO today? Seems like it'll likely force another world war if Putin's being stupid.


NATO is effectively an agreement to do mutual defence. If Ukraine was in it, then the other nations would be obliged to help. They would probably already be there on the ground.
At the moment countries are saying they may help, but also might just do sanctions.
Thats a very big difference, especially in terms of deterrent to Putin.

The UN is something different, its suppose to be everybody and a place where you can work out differences. You can be there with "the enemy"
Thats a lot different to treaty organisations where you have already agreed to help each other. There are other treaty organisations, most dont have the infrastructure of NATO and are far more just on-paper setups. eg AUKUS (Australia, UK, USA)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Do you really think we need NATO or AUKUS? Because without such agreements, UN members would simply turn a blind eye when problems arise?

[JoshInKC]

"Would" doesn't really matter - it's "could" that is the problem. The theory is that if even the weakest and smallest NATO member nation is attacked by another state, there's a *guarantee* that the biggest and strongest will show up and start blowing shit up.

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.newsweek.com/dc-trucker-convoy-protest-vaccine-covid-1681648

"USA Freedom Convoy Reveals Demands as National Guard Deployed to Capital"

Shouldn't Billi, his Brainwashed Bros, and the mainstream media be actually seeking to support and cheer on these brave defenders of FREEEDDOMDMMMAMMAMAM against the oppressive government? Why are he and his bros silent on it? HMMMMMMMMMM ONE WONDERS

[neanderthal]

Tulsi Gabbard, ostensibly a democrat, is now one of the speakers at CPAC Florida along with other conservative luminaries such as Donald Trump, Don Jr, Candace Owens, Glenn Beck, Ted Cruz, Nigel Farage, Sean Spicer, Kevin Sorbo, and Sebastian Gorka.

https://cpac.conservative.org/speakers/

How lovely.

Man, I wish I could remember all the times billi was lickin her jockstrap.

[Crazed_Insanity]

"Would" doesn't really matter - it's "could" that is the problem. The theory is that if even the weakest and smallest NATO member nation is attacked by another state, there's a *guarantee* that the biggest and strongest will show up and start blowing shit up.

I just think it's kinda retarded. Kinda like joining a gang for protection.

Even without forming a 'gang', if there's an asshole country messing around with a smaller country, UN would simply pretend to see no evil and hear no evil? If so, then we can probably do away with UN as well.

Anyway, my main objection against NATO is that it exists only to hold Russia back.

Is Russia really still an evil empire threaten to destroy the world? Are we still afraid of communism taking over the world? I kinda like the days with Russian and US collaborated on space ventures... we don't have to be setting up missiles near each other's borders.

We didn't like missiles at Cuba, naturally Russians don't like missiles at bunch of NATO nations along their borders.

If possible, we should help each other becoming more prosperous. That's probably the best way to easy tensions.

Of course thanks to the increasingly more nationalistic attitudes around the world and Covid locking down borders... I think it's probably just a matter of time for the next Hitler to arrive... and it's very possible the next Hitler might come from the USA. Then let's see how NATO will defend its alliance. ;)

[Tom Servo]

https://www.newsweek.com/dc-trucker-convoy-protest-vaccine-covid-1681648

"USA Freedom Convoy Reveals Demands as National Guard Deployed to Capital"

Shouldn't Billi, his Brainwashed Bros, and the mainstream media be actually seeking to support and cheer on these brave defenders of FREEEDDOMDMMMAMMAMAM against the oppressive government? Why are he and his bros silent on it? HMMMMMMMMMM ONE WONDERS

It might be that like a dozen trucks and maybe 100 people were there to kick it off in Adelanto, with many of them saying they only planned to go so far as Arizona.

[Crazed_Insanity]

In other news, 2 leading prosecutors of Trump inquiry in Manhattan DA’s office resigned… stalling investigation.

Why is it so hard to nail this guy?

2024, here he comes… :rolleyes:

[Tom Servo]

Is Russia really still an evil empire threaten to destroy the world?

As evidenced by the past 90 minutes or so - yes.

[Yw-slayer]

It might be that like a dozen trucks and maybe 100 people were there to kick it off in Adelanto, with many of them saying they only planned to go so far as Arizona.

He and his Bros should be crowd funding brave liberation fighter revolution people then so that they can make it to oppressive govt seat etc. BUT THEY WON'T RUGHT??? HMMM ONE WONDERS WHY

[Crazed_Insanity]

Swervo, In a way, I can totally understand why Iraq wants Kuwait back. Similarly Russia wants Ukraine back… and of course China wants Taiwan back.

That’s kinda different compared Nazi or Japanese invasion of other nations… or the West colonizing the world.

[Tom Servo]

Billi - I want you to very carefully think about whether or not you want to justify and defend an unprovoked military invasion on a sovereign nation.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not trying to be tucker and not justifying anything, just saying there’s a difference between England wanting to take the 13 colonies back vs colonizing the rest of the world.

Spread of communism was a real threat back then, but even communists realized capitalism works better now!

Anyway, I don’t want China invading Taiwan, but if it did, it’s still quite different than invading Korea or Japan, right?

Putin has the means to destroy the world with his nukes but definitely not able to conquer it. Not really sure we absolutely need NATO as if Russia were really that powerful…

[Tom Servo]

Why are you saying there's a difference? What's your point? If you're not defending it, why bother bringing it up? How is this anything other than "well, it's not *as* bad as this other thing, so therefore it's better"? How is that not justifying or defending it?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m surprised that you see this so black and white without any nuance… shouldn’t that be my thing?

Surely Putin thinks we caused the collapse of former Soviet Union. He’s probably just wanting to restore what was broken or lost. Again, not saying what he’s doing is right, but clearly it’s ‘different’ from just invading another country to rob it or trash it.

Imagine in the other multi verse where USA lost the Cold War and we collapse into 50 different nations… and their alternate NATO alliance included Cuba, Canada and Mexico, filled with missiles aim right at us. And then comes a president Trump wishing to MAGA by trying Unite the States by force, but then Putin and NATO said you can’t do that…

Point is I don’t think this has to be another world war.

[Rare White Ape]

Without getting too far into a subject I admittedly know very little about, the Russia-Ukraine thing isn't as straightforward as many think it is.

Those Eastern Bloc places like Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia... they form Russia's buffer from Europe. Russia doesn't want NATO having member states right on its doorstep. Russia would just like to have a nice, quiet Eastern Bloc which doesn't do anything rash or poke the bear in The Kremlin. For if NATO allows Ukraine to join, that essentially means that the US can build air force bases further east than ever with a 10-minute flight time to Moscow.

I guess what it all boils down to is Putin making sure that the Ukrainian government doesn't get too cosy with powers to the west. This is the continuation of events that can be traced back the late 1940s. Russia is reticent about its affairs to the west, and it has a looooong memory. It is not taking Ukraine back, heck it's perfectly fine with Ukraine remaining a sovereign state. It's just moving the chess pieces in no worse a fashion than the USA did in the 60s and 70s while keeping Cuba supressed to limit Russian influence in the Gulf of Mexico.

[Tom Servo]

I’m surprised that you see this so black and white without any nuance… shouldn’t that be my thing?

Yeah, I have to admit that I tend to see unprovoked full-scale military invasions sending people fleeing terrified from their homes as pretty much a "bad" thing, and that "well, but Putin really wanted it" doesn't really make me feel a lot better about it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No question about that being a bad thing.

However, considering Ukraine's involvement with impeachment of one of our presidents due to the possible fact of corruption charges of our current president's son... this bad action is not purely because Putin is a bad man. USA has been a not so very good actor in this as well.

Having NATO against the Russians is also kinda like building a wall against the Mexicans IMO. I kinda think it's a waste of money. We don't build walls against our crazy Canadian neighbor, right? If you really wish to stop the practice of hiring illegal immigrants, then you penalize the employers caught hiring them. Fix the problem at the root of the problem. What good is a wall? As for the Russia problem... America really needs to stop influencing foreign nations and building military bases in their countries. If we wouldn't like bunch of missiles pointed at us at close range, why would they?

Let's not forget Abraham Lincoln used force to keep the southern states in line in order to keep the 'union'. Any one of our states could be a sovereign nation. Should we remain 'united' by force? If Florida or California has decided that its had enough, should it be allowed to go its own way?

Anyway, Putin is definitely a bad guy, but just saying I'm not sure if we're helping much to ease the tensions earlier...

[mk]

Without getting too far into a subject I admittedly know very little about, the Russia-Ukraine thing isn't as straightforward as many think it is.

Lavrov said once that with Ukraine Russia feels the pain of a lost leg.

[FaultyMario]

It's going to be a long fucking year, innit?

[Rare White Ape]

We are 26 months into this year, yes.

[neanderthal]

We are 26 months into this year, yes.

It's one of those super long leap year efforts because we had a 2/22/22 date in it. I think.

[neanderthal]

https://youtu.be/nK-yJD_fAtk

Don't remember how this video came into my view, maybe someone from here shared the link.
Either way, good stuff.

[Tom Servo]

An article I was reading the other day put it about how I see it. Putin's been isolated more than other leaders during Covid, he's basically got his pod and he's stayed in it with a bunch of yes men and sycophants. He learned from the wrong lesson in Afghanistan - he thought Russia would roll into Ukraine like the Taliban rolled into Afghanistan when the US pulled out. Viewed as liberators, taking control of the capitol in a day or two. He didn't realize it was going to be more like when Russia invaded Afghanistan.

I think he's made a terrible miscalculation. Basically everybody except Belarus and the far-right in the US (and I mean far-right, like Nick Fuentes types) have turned on him and are saying he should cease fire. His own population is against him on this. Even China and Trump have started doing about-faces. He's lost the plot here, but unfortunate we know there's no way he's not going to try to save face and a lot of people are going to be hurt and killed because of his dipshittery. He's almost immediately turned Zelenskyy into a folk hero who, if killed, will long live on as a martyr.

For all the talk of how Ukraine shouldn't have tried to join NATO, I think this is the exact example of why they should and would have wanted to, to protect themselves against something like this. Putin has wanted to annex all of Ukraine for a long time, the NATO thing is just a bullshit excuse for why he did it now.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I saw the time magazine article saying that perhaps Putin is just getting old and figured if he doesn’t do it now, it may never happen. I think I can understand where he came from just as I can understand why China would want Taiwan back. Surely neither China needs Taiwan nor Russia needs Ukraine to bring the respective nations to their former glory… I think they probably have the same sentiment Abraham Lincoln was feeling… they don’t want to see their nations broken up…

Of course I could be wrong.

There’s also a good chance for authoritarians to just go nuts… because absolute power tend to corrupt them absolutely in the end. At least Lincoln wasn’t a dictator.

NATO is just a side issue. It wasn’t helpful, even if Ukraine joined, what are we suppose to do now if Ukraine were indeed a member? Have WW3 for real? And risk getting ourselves nuked?

It’s not easy dealing with a mad authoritarian with nukes no matter what.

Russia and China should just try to woo their respective ‘territories’ home by positively wooing them, not by threatening to kick their asses…, or actually kicking their asses!

[FaultyMario]

Nazis fighting Nazis, as I see it.

It is a tragedy for the common people who are going to end up paying for this shit.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don’t quite see how you see that, can you elaborate more? You’re seeing Zelensky as Ukrainian version of Trump? Trump did inch closer and closer to fascism, but he’s just not there yet, right? I also didn’t think Ukraine was as bad as US in that regard…

[Yw-slayer]

Man. Have there been ANY other times in recent history where innocent people get dragged into massive conflicts due to geopolitical aspirations of the major powers, and a bunch of people go all fanatical and crazy because they believe that THEIR SIDE DOES EVERYTHING RIGHT and THE OTHER SIDE IS PURE EVIL??!/1/!/?!/!?!??!?!?!!?1/!?! And/or when there is a major PROPAGANDA WAR on both sides/?!/!/!!

HMMMM

I

WONDER

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, that’s what people typically do; however, one also has to wonder what Ukrainians have done to truly deserve getting invaded like this? What kind of Nazi are Ukrainians that Russia needs to intervene and denazify them? That’s kind of a BS excuse I think.

If you want Ukraine back, propose an offer so good that they won’t refuse. Using bullets and bombs is just lame.

[sandydandy]

This whole Nazi thing confused me at first, considering Ukraine’s president is a Jewish guy.

I read that Putin is using it as an umbrella term for people he hates. Drug addicts and Nazis. Unless there actually is a significant far right neo-Nazi movement in Ukraine that’s causing all the problems. Who knows for sure?

[FaultyMario]

ultranationalism is potent in Europe.
far right orgs have varying degrees of influence over governments in eastern Europe.
Zelensky is a media figure that was elected and holds office, but bears limited power; power is held by the elites that control some of the far right leaders

It can be argued that Russia's mix of crony capitalism (https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-putin-controls-russia) with police state tactics (https://www.csis.org/analysis/repression-trap-mechanism-escalating-state-violence-russia) is similar to that seen in pre war Germany.

It's like the Waffen SS were waiging war against the brown shirts (https://twitter.com/edolinsky).

[Crazed_Insanity]

Your analysis is perhaps correct. Zelensky appeared corrupted and ended up losing popularity probably because the elites were exerting their powers/influence behind the scenes... now that war has come so the rich elites probably fled, so Zelensky is now able to show his true character?

As this lingers on, I think things will become increasingly black and white... even if people still cannot tell which side is good, hopefully people can now tell which side is more evil?

I can understand why this crazy old man wants to invade, he's probably thinking it's now or never, but I don't think anyone can truly justify such invasion. US and NATO weren't helping for sure, but it still does NOT justify such invasion.

I hope President Xi is taking notes... reminding himself not to go down this same path.

[Rikadyn]

ultranationalism is potent in Europe.
far right orgs have varying degrees of influence over governments in eastern Europe.
Zelensky is a media figure that was elected and holds office, but bears limited power; power is held by the elites that control some of the far right leaders

It can be argued that Russia's mix of crony capitalism (https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-putin-controls-russia) with police state tactics (https://www.csis.org/analysis/repression-trap-mechanism-escalating-state-violence-russia) is similar to that seen in pre war Germany.

It's like the Waffen SS were waiging war against the brown shirts (https://twitter.com/edolinsky).

Far right in Ukraine had been declining since the Maidan(sp?) at least it was in 2016. It was part of my senior essay for graduation was looking at the rise of far right in Europe in response to the Syrian refuge crisis.

[FaultyMario]

Are you sure there hasn't been any surge in the post-Trump era? Far right has been on the up in the western hemisphere since at least 2018 and I think right-wing nationalists had good numbers in the 2019 EU parliamentary elections.

Anyway, while on the subject of refugees, has anyone heard the outrage over displaced light-skinned Ukrainians entering into EU countries?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think that's a bit too cynical... If there were black Ukrainians or arab looking Ukrainians, do you really believe they'd be regarded as don't really matter and forced to eat Putin's bullets and bombs?

Plus, this is only the beginning. If this thing drags on, good will most likely will wear thin.

[Blerpa]

Actually yes: dark, brown, indian, yellow-skinned people have been discriminated when choosing who to let pass borders and get into trains of the fleeing ukrainians and foreigners in the country.

[Rikadyn]

Are you sure there hasn't been any surge in the post-Trump era? Far right has been on the up in the western hemisphere since at least 2018 and I think right-wing nationalists had good numbers in the 2019 EU parliamentary elections.

Anyway, while on the subject of refugees, has anyone heard the outrage over displaced light-skinned Ukrainians entering into EU countries?

Trump era I doubt had much effect on Europe as a whole. The far right was already growing in Europe, but there was a decrease in the Ukraine around that time. I used Ukraine as an example of how in/out group politics relied on having a boogeyman to create the divide. After the initial tensions following Crimea annexation, the influence of the far right waned, unlike say Hungary under Orban where it was still dominate.

I think trump just caught us up/uncovered the United States latent right wing tendency.

[FaultyMario]

Trump era should be read as in incompetent isolationist U.S. Foreign Affairs.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Actually yes: dark, brown, indian, yellow-skinned people have been discriminated when choosing who to let pass borders and get into trains of the fleeing ukrainians and foreigners in the country.

I heard stories of Chinese people getting in trouble in Ukraine due to CCP's pro russian stance...

Anyway, discrimination will probably always exist at some level, but at least white Russians probably can't expect the color of their skin to help them much as long as Putin is in control.

[Yw-slayer]

Anyway, while on the subject of refugees, has anyone heard the outrage over displaced light-skinned Ukrainians entering into EU countries?

Do you mean the outrage by "THIS IS EUROPE NOT SOME OTHER PLACE" (I'm paraphrasing of course, you know what I mean) reporters?

[MR2 Fan]

Unfortunately, from an outsider it does seem the far-right in Europe are doing the easy thing to lure people into their cause...namely the refugee crisis and the time and effort it takes those countries to help integrate refugees into their society.

It's one thing for America which is a huge, heavily populated and already diverse country...it's another thing for much smaller countries taking on a lot of refugees at once. It's much easier for far-right people to push racism against them, and then add other things they don't like

[Crazed_Insanity]

Bombs and bullets are equal opportunity killer. I’d rather we stop the indiscriminate and pointless killings 1st, then we can perhaps figure out how to get rid of racism.

[neanderthal]

Actually yes: dark, brown, indian, yellow-skinned people have been discriminated when choosing who to let pass borders and get into trains of the fleeing ukrainians and foreigners in the country.

I've seen a lot of tweets from Africans who were living in Ukraine who've been denied access to trains or border crossing into Poland (do the two even have mutual borders?)

I'ts really fucked up when, in the middle of a fucking war/ invasion, you got time to be racist!!!

[Yw-slayer]

I've seen a lot of tweets from Africans who were living in Ukraine who've been denied access to trains or border crossing into Poland (do the two even have mutual borders?)

I'ts really fucked up when, in the middle of a fucking war/ invasion, you got time to be racist!!!

Always expect the worst, especially from those who claim to be defenders of freeedokmmomomookokk211211!!!!££@1

[Tom Servo]

I've seen a lot of tweets from Africans who were living in Ukraine who've been denied access to trains or border crossing into Poland (do the two even have mutual borders?)

I'ts really fucked up when, in the middle of a fucking war/ invasion, you got time to be racist!!!

I've seen that too (and yes, there's a huge border on eastern Ukraine with western Poland).

Saw a similar story about an Afghan family that fled to Ukraine and is now trying to flee to Poland, but being rebuffed at the Polish border.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What does 'rebuffed' mean?

[Tom Servo]

The technical definition is "reject (someone or something) in an abrupt or ungracious manner."

[Crazed_Insanity]

I've heard stories of Poland accepting Ukrainians with pets unconditionally... yeah, it's sad that some humans are being treated less than dogs and cats... However, Poland has the right to decide who to help and who not to help I suppose. Hopefully they can be more humane later on...

Anyway, I'm not sure if we really have the right to be critical of Poland. Maybe Mario has the right, but for us Americans... we've helped create these refugees from the Middle East. Why should we expect these bordering European nations to unconditionally absorb every single refugees that we helped create? Also, considering our own borders. I think Polish border patrol cannot be worse than our own? On the southern side?

[neanderthal]

I've seen a lot of tweets from Africans who were living in Ukraine who've been denied access to trains or border crossing into Poland (do the two even have mutual borders?)

I'ts really fucked up when, in the middle of a fucking war/ invasion, you got time to be racist!!!

https://twitter.com/_SJPeace_/status/1498438715286470657?t=zsXByP5elTI_5kLMjy1qVQ&s=19

[Crazed_Insanity]

Russians are white. Ukrainians are white. They're supposedly really "brothers".

If white lives don't matter on white civilized lands, why would you expect black lives to matter any where?

I really don't think this is the time and place to whine about racism. Yes, racism for sure sucks; however, I'm hoping we won't end up making all our lives equal in a sense that no lives really matter. That's not the equality I'm aiming for.

If white civilized societies cannot sort things out nicely, I think racism will be the least of our problems.

Yeah, Putin launch those rockets and erase humanity and we'll achieve racial equally. Every life doesn't matter anymore. Most heroic person in history? Ended racism?

Anyway, just saying we don't need to be racist against white people. They can suffer too. No need to remind a wounded white person that hey, we're wounded more by you and your ancestors. So now you know how we feel?

At least Hitler was clearly a racist. Putin is more scary that he's killing his own brothers... for what?

[FaultyMario]

Neither Putin nor his oligarchs will suffer from U.S. and European economic siege warfare—it's part of how Putin rose to power in the first place.


Putin has succeeded in uniting American and European decisionmakers very squarely against Russia. But that unity does not create any lever to oust the Russians from Ukraine, particularly now that Putin has taken the escalatory step of placing his nuclear forces on alert. So foreign capitals prefer to reach for what Simon Jenkins calls in Monday's Guardian "the capitalist equivalent of medieval siege and famine." They think of such a weapon as substituting for war, rather than one on a continuum with war.


But it is conspicuous that the mass economic misery of 1990s Russia, alongside the internal post-Soviet political destabilization, was a structural factor contributing to Putin's rise, and the rise of the contemporary Russian elite, in the first place.


But what if Xi actually called the bluff and pressed Putin to leave Ukraine? I suppose this is where a Foreign Policy Columnist would say something like China Is Facing A Test Of Its Power—And Its Purpose. But if Xi is interested in a diplomatic masterstroke, he could save Ukraine while exposing Washington as a bystander to the history it presumes its birthright is to control.


https://foreverwars.substack.com/p/putin-ukraine-sanctions-same-as-the-old-boss

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interesting read.

Xi has an opportunity to really shine in human history. Will he help save the day and assume leadership position on world stage over the West or will he seize the opportunity to take over Taiwan and watch the West fight amongst itself? Lord knows what these dickheads really want?

Anyway, yeah, I agree sanctions won't be very effective. It'll only hurt ordinary russians rather than Putin.

[Yw-slayer]

https://twitter.com/_SJPeace_/status/1498438715286470657?t=zsXByP5elTI_5kLMjy1qVQ&s=19

There was a good Greatest Hits article by Al-Jazeera, including on one of their own reporters:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/27/western-media-coverage-ukraine-russia-invasion-criticism
The CBS guy is still the undisputed champion.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Frankly I’m a bit shell shocked to find even some of the folks here to be so unsympathetic about white Christian westerners suffering…

Anyway, I can only imagine what the rest of the world really think of the white Christian west… the conspiracy theorist in me is beginning to think ‘their’ ultimate goal is to bring the white Christian western worlds to their knees.

China, India, Saudi Arabia and even Israel are the new Swiss bankers. Western world can sanction all they want, but guess what? Putin has been preparing for sanctions. They are energy and food exporters! So what if the west denies Russians iPhones? What will you eat? What will you burn as fuel? Saudis have no plans to increase production even if oil gets to $1000/barrel.

Invasion of Ukraine absolutely made no sense, but I’m fearing that this is just the beginning of a new world order. They are prepping to knock the rich white Christian men off their high horse.

Putin is a rich white man, but since the west never embraced him, so he probably figured screw the west…

If there’s really a sinister plot to bring down the west or America, 9/11, the election meddling, the global pandemic all made sense now…

Of course I’m still hoping Putin is just a mad man and Tom Cruise under IMF would just go in and assassinate Putin and end this nightmare…

WW3 is probably happening… I always thought perhaps Xi would be the one who start something, but I guess it’s probably good that it wasn’t him, or else Me and my family would be targeted for some more racism…

[Tom Servo]

Okay, that's 15 yards for unsportsmanlike nonsense.

Where do you claim to see people unsympathetic to white Christian suffering?

Also, you gotta lay off the Infowars, brother.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Don’t read infowars at all.

Mario, Neanderthal and YW.

I guess I can understand why they dislike rich white Christians, I can understand that they’re pissed at racism coming from white westerners. Even you probably harbor some shame about your Christian past, right? Anyway, don’t mean to pass judgements on anyone, just making observations. You know, people here are still very closely associated to the western culture, so I can only imagine the hatred for America and the west from some of those who live in Africa, China, India, Middle East. Even Israel is probably tired of hand outs from the Christian US… every nationalist in their respective country probably wants to make his own nation great again…

Anyway, like I said, just making a wild guess trying to make sense of Putin’s nonsense.

[Tom Servo]

All I saw them do was call out racism that's happening now. I agree with them that it sucks that Poland is (possibly) turning non-white people away from the border and that should change. But sympathy isn't a zero-sum game - you can have sympathy for the white Christian Ukrainians too. It does bother me that for some reason Ukraine is getting vastly more attention than places like Yemen or Kosovo or Georgia, though I think that part of it is also the sheer scale of the invasion - this is an attempt to basically take over an entire sovereign nation, and I don't know if we've seen something quite on this scale since Iraq and Kuwait. But it's entirely possible to criticize our lack of response to other conflicts and the way that the refugee crisis is being handled without discounting what's happening now. I think I've made it clear that this upsets me vastly more than a number of other people here yet I also am disgusted by some of the news reports coming out about the Polish border control and how they're treating non-white people fleeing the violence. The positive side is I've also seen plenty of reports of the citizens, both Ukrainian and Polish, who have welcomed everyone regardless of race or creed.

Also, let's not forget a lot of Ukrainians are Jewish, not Christian. Including Zelenskyy.

When you say "your [my] Christian past", I'm assuming you mean my ancestors who were Christian as I don't really have any personal Christian past to speak of. I do not harbor any shame about that, just like I wouldn't if they were Jewish or Muslim or Hindu or what have you. You continually try to ascribe to me this animosity against Christianity that I just don't have. I think a lot of bad things have been done in the name of Christianity throughout the centuries, just like they were for other religions. Being introspective and potentially critical isn't shame. I have relatives in the clergy, I don't think less of them just because I also recognize the atrocities that have been carried out throughout history in the name of Christianity.

If you haven't started reading/watching Infowars, definitely don't start now. You're going down the same conspiracy theory hole that my boss is, and nothing good comes from there.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Don’t worry, I’m have no desire for info wars. I’m just trying to explain to myself why would Putin invade Ukraine. It might be that he’s mad, but I think there’s probably a more sinister plot given the responses I see in UN.

[Rikadyn]

You're a moron.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Everyone knows that already. Can you instead share your guess of why Putin has seemingly gone mad?

At least Israel and the Saudis are no longer abstaining…

Hopefully China will soon decide to help persuade Putin to stop…

[FaultyMario]

Why is Imperator Iosephvs Bidennius not negotiating with Governor Guaidonis of the Province of Venetiola?

Oh, right... because Juan Fucking Guaido is a media figure and not an actual politician who has done any groundwork and he is someone who wields zero power.

Oops, my bad!

[FaultyMario]

We all know that guy from HS.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNbBsomakAA8aKx.jpg

[Rare White Ape]

Mario I sometimes wonder what the flippin heck you’re talking about :lol:

[FaultyMario]

Mario I sometimes wonder what the flippin heck you’re talking about :lol:

It's about that guy who always antagonized you, and then one day he needs a favor and he's all "my buddy, how are ya!".

The clintonites have pushed the chavista movement of Venezuela into a corner because Hugo Chavez basically said "stop it, you meddling yanks". Then they said that some corrupt dude was the it boy and that he was going to lead the revolution, but the dude was put in jail because he was swindler so they had to resort to plan B, but Juan Guaido is basically useless and then the meddling clintonites squeezed the Venezuelan government even further and seized a lot of their assets. But now that Ukrainian invasion has pushed the price of gasoline for Americans beyond the dollar per liter, they're all cozying up to the chavistas.

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7BCZCWlvEc

Foreign Intervention - Key & Peele

Always a good video to watch to remind yourself of the truth.

[George]

It's about that guy who always antagonized you, and then one day he needs a favor and he's all "my buddy, how are ya!".

Ah. I thought it was maybe that guy who remembers a little Spanish from high school classes and wants to try it out with his Spanish-speaking friends (not strangers). That would be me, as one of my co-workers can attest.

[FaultyMario]

Leaders during the 2011 Chilean student protests:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNlJfQPWQAotVpy.jpg

Cabinet members and President in 2022:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNlJfQNWYAEXsLr.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNqC35QXEAY7_IB.jpg

[neanderthal]

The CFPB (consumer financial protections board?) is forcing credit bureaus to remove medical debt from most credit reports, (https://www.wsj.com/articles/most-medical-debts-to-be-removed-from-consumers-credit-reports-11647604803) because voting matters.
Cue billi bleating something about political parties being the same.

[MR2 Fan]

The CFPB (consumer financial protections board?) is forcing credit bureaus to remove medical debt from most credit reports, (https://www.wsj.com/articles/most-medical-debts-to-be-removed-from-consumers-credit-reports-11647604803) because voting matters.

That's awesome and waaaay overdue

[Tom Servo]

One of the weirder things that came out of my recent jury duty experience was an argument over what a doctor bills and what they expect to get. Like, apparently the amount asked for is just a suggestion (that happens to be at the extreme high end), but sure as shit that's what they'll try to collect if you don't pay the unknown amount they actually expect to get, which is an amount they've negotiated with someone else and you get no visibility into.

[SportWagon]

Are you actually saying the debt goes away once you have paid the smaller amount?
Does this mean those who can afford an accountant can pay less for medical services?
Actually most of this will be hidden/irrelevant for people with company medical insurance?

[neanderthal]

One of the weirder things that came out of my recent jury duty experience was an argument over what a doctor bills and what they expect to get. Like, apparently the amount asked for is just a suggestion (that happens to be at the extreme high end), but sure as shit that's what they'll try to collect if you don't pay the unknown amount they actually expect to get, which is an amount they've negotiated with someone else and you get no visibility into.

My medical bills in my accident case are currently $165k. The defense (lawyer of the lady who struck me) will argue they are exhorbitant. My lawyer is saying they can be negotiated down as much as 75%, but typically closer to 50%.

Nobody knows what medical procedures actually cost because what you pay in cash could be completely different from what I pay with my health insurance which in turn be completely different from what auto insurance pays in the event of an accident a crash, like mine.
Right now my lawyer is trying to get me to accept a $245k settlement (that's for the entire case, not just to me, so my medical bills, lost wages, lawyers fees, subrogation, etc all come from that.) and because I don't know what the actual numbers are for my future medical bills i'm balking at that.

In my case the lawyers fees are 45%. Forty five fucking percent. Subtract from $245k and you're left with $130k. Say the doctor bills are halved, once you remove those it's $45k. Along comes UNUM (disability insurance) and they're taking $16k. $30k is left.

Wait, my lost wages is $50k, so i'm already in the hole $20k, which means I have not been restituted, and I still potentially need two surgeries, one of which (stem cells in affected discs) is definitely $10k, and the other (surgery to remove said discs, replace them with a hockey puck (that's all i'll be able to afford) and then tie it together with some titanium rods scrap wire) could potentially be $50k- $200k.

Why the fuck would I take that settlement?

Oh, and my health insurance likely won't pay for any of this as it was the result of an auto accident. "The person who hits you, their insurance will pay" you've all heard that. That's ... not exactly how it works. Lets start with "how much insurance did they buy?"

[neanderthal]

Are you actually saying the debt goes away once you have paid the smaller amount?

Under the new guidelines, yes. If you've negotiated a lower sum than your actual bill, and paid it, they will have to remove it from your credit file.


Does this mean those who can afford an accountant can pay less for medical services?

Possibly. It does mean those who have been responsible about paying their bill won't be punished for being a shrewd negotiator.


Actually most of this will be hidden/irrelevant for people with company medical insurance?

Yes. And no. There are still some shit healthcare plans out there.

[Tom Servo]

My medical bills in my accident case are currently $165k. The defense (lawyer of the lady who struck me) will argue they are exhorbitant. My lawyer is saying they can be negotiated down as much as 75%, but typically closer to 50%.

Nobody knows what medical procedures actually cost because what you pay in cash could be completely different from what I pay with my health insurance which in turn be completely different from what auto insurance pays in the event of an accident a crash, like mine.
Right now my lawyer is trying to get me to accept a $245k settlement (that's for the entire case, not just to me, so my medical bills, lost wages, lawyers fees, subrogation, etc all come from that.) and because I don't know what the actual numbers are for my future medical bills i'm balking at that.

In my case the lawyers fees are 45%. Forty five fucking percent. Subtract from $245k and you're left with $130k. Say the doctor bills are halved, once you remove those it's $45k. Along comes UNUM (disability insurance) and they're taking $16k. $30k is left.

Wait, my lost wages is $50k, so i'm already in the hole $20k, which means I have not been restituted, and I still potentially need two surgeries, one of which (stem cells in affected discs) is definitely $10k, and the other (surgery to remove said discs, replace them with a hockey puck (that's all i'll be able to afford) and then tie it together with some titanium rods scrap wire) could potentially be $50k- $200k.

Why the fuck would I take that settlement?

Oh, and my health insurance likely won't pay for any of this as it was the result of an auto accident. "The person who hits you, their insurance will pay" you've all heard that. That's ... not exactly how it works. Lets start with "how much insurance did they buy?"

It's a machine that's built to churn people in and out, and it's very efficient. That's how they can afford all those billboards and local TV ads. What sucks is that the entire system is basically designed to both get as much as possible from the guilty party while also giving as little as possible to the person hurt. The trial I was part of was eye opening and horrible.

[Yw-slayer]

My Bro Mo, I can see that mentioning some of these matters may help enlighten others on this forum. But while I am not qualified to advise on US law and am not doing so or purporting to do so, I would not generally recommend mentioning such things here while there are still ongoing or even putative (presumably "without prejudice") settlement negotiations/proceedings of some sort.

That aside, I will also mention that the legal system over here seems to be quite different. Which is what you would expect from a different jurisdiction.

[Rare White Ape]

All I can say is that you guys in the USA need healthcare NOW.

NOW, NOW, NOW, NOW, NOW!

In my case, after my three surgeries and dozens of physio and orthopaedic appointments, all of my bills are paid for. Plus they’re sending me in for keyhole surgery sometime in the next few months to help improve things with my knee.

I’ve probably cost the state $250k up to this point :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

We do have healthcare! Just not free nor affordable like you guys! :p

US government claims it has no more money for a 4th booster dose for all Americans even if we need one due to another surge. So that pretty much tells you our political will for coming up with affordable healthcare for other non-Covid related issues.

[Yw-slayer]

All I can say is that you guys in the USA need healthcare NOW.

NOW, NOW, NOW, NOW, NOW!

In my case, after my three surgeries and dozens of physio and orthopaedic appointments, all of my bills are paid for. Plus they’re sending me in for keyhole surgery sometime in the next few months to help improve things with my knee.

I’ve probably cost the state $250k up to this point :)

Butbutbut SUBSIDISED PUBLIC HEALTHCARE is only a step to...

[Rare White Ape]

FREE… um, I mean:

TYRRANNYY

[Leon]

Yup, the most expensive thing about the hospital here is the car parking for visitors.

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah it’s a good thing I can catch the bus or the tram right to the front door of the place for $4.25 ($2.13 if I’m a student).

[MR2 Fan]

the craziest thing about US spending....military spending always insanely high...people ask why we need so much..."to keep us safe".....but healthcare is also to keep us safe

[Yw-slayer]

Wait. Isn't your military mainly used and deployed overseas?

[FaultyMario]

Speaking of the military and healthcare, remember when Afghani workers for the U.S. military were given the cold shoulder just as their mortal enemies were taking control of their country?

"It was great to see the US welcome Ukrainian refugees at the border. But continuing to use T42 to turn away all other asylum seekers on the increasingly absurd pretext of protecting public health is shameful and violates US and international law. It's past time to end Title 42. (https://twitter.com/JuliaNeusner/status/1506798121283584000)"

All those exemptions must because we hate Putin more than we hate Akhundzada, right?

[Yw-slayer]

I mean, that is ONE possible explanation. There might be others. HMMM ONE WONDERS WHAT THEY COULD BE

[MR2 Fan]

Wait. Isn't your military mainly used and deployed overseas?

Well, yeah

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/teamamerica/images/b/be/Team_america_world_police_ver3.jpg

[Tom Servo]

Clarence Thomas' wife is pilled to the gills. apparently. Lovely that he then voted not to release 1/6 documents that she was involved with.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/24/virginia-thomas-mark-meadows-texts/

[MR2 Fan]

When people on twitter, etc. bitch and moan about how long Merrick Garland and the DOJ are taking with their investigations, it's becoming more and more clear that the implications and those involved in the GOP, Supreme Court, Russia and who knows where else are incredibly huge.

How do you make rulings easily that could show breaking of the law by a substantial number of one political party (out of two)

[Rare White Ape]

the craziest thing about US spending....military spending always insanely high...people ask why we need so much..."to keep us safe".....but healthcare is also to keep us safe

Australian government spending:
“We need to get rid of railway level crossings and maybe a new hospital and it’ll cost us 1.5 billion dollary-doos”

The public*:
“How the fuck do you expect to pay for that ya cunt?”

Also Australian government spending:
“We’re gonna buy a bunch of second-hand Abraham’s tanks from the Seppos and a handful of old nuclear subs by 2050 and it’ll cost us 69420 bajillion dollars, and we are also going to strengthen our borders to keep reffos** out.”

The public:
“………..”


*Murdoch News
**Refugees beyond the colour scale

[Crazed_Insanity]

When people on twitter, etc. bitch and moan about how long Merrick Garland and the DOJ are taking with their investigations, it's becoming more and more clear that the implications and those involved in the GOP, Supreme Court, Russia and who knows where else are incredibly huge.

How do you make rulings easily that could show breaking of the law by a substantial number of one political party (out of two)

How? Just make it so as Picard puts it. :p Only the truth can set our nation free.

Unfortunately top level of our government just can't handle the truth. From 9/11 to financial crisis to now... it just seems nobody at the top level can be held accountable for anything. It's always us the average folks end up paying for their mistakes. If this top level rot isn't fixed, collapse of the US of A should happen soon.

[FaultyMario]

On March 26th, 2022, a former president of the United States called Vladimir Putin "a great negotiator" who "made a big mistake", during a public speech.

[Tom Servo]

I'm shocked he was that harsh.