Politics

[tigeraid]

Young white man shoots up an all-black Church in South Carolina:

http://gawker.com/everything-we-know-about-the-charleston-shooting-and-th-1712189127

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--6gMWvgEW--/1302539951721968419.jpg



Police say the suspect, pictured in the surveillance photograph above, sat in on a prayer group at the Emanuel AME Church for at least an hour before initiating the shooting.

At least nine people—six women and three men—were killed in the mayhem. That count reportedly includes State Sen. Clementa Pinckney, who also acted as the church’s pastor. According to an NAACP official interviewed by the Post and Courier, the shooter told one female survivor “he was letting her live so she could tell everyone else what happened.”


What's interesting is that FOX News is already trying to spin this as an "attack on faith." Even though the gunman was quoted: "“He just said ‘I have to do it.’ He said, ‘You rape our women, and you’re taking over our country, and you have to go."

But racism in America is dead. :rolleyes:

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IchGuL501U

[overpowered]

Trump hired people to support him at his announcement:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/busted-donald-trump-caught-hiring-extras-for-campaign-launch-at-50-a-head/

[overpowered]

Fox News: Charleston shooting is an attack on faith, not race—calls for pastors to arm themselves

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/18/1394261/-Fox-News-Charleston-shooting-is-an-attack-on-faith-not-race-calls-for-pastors-to-arm-themselves

[tigeraid]

Fox News: Charleston shooting is an attack on faith, not race—calls for pastors to arm themselves

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/18/1394261/-Fox-News-Charleston-shooting-is-an-attack-on-faith-not-race-calls-for-pastors-to-arm-themselves

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[overpowered]

Read that article and then watch the video on islamic extremists.

[MR2 Fan]

This issue comes up every few months it seems like. I'm trying to figure out what other country that still has portions of it that use a battle flag of a war that was lost 150+ years before.

http://gawker.com/every-s-c-statehouse-flag-is-at-half-staff-except-the-1712358244?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_twitter&utm_source=gawker_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

[overpowered]

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--LWzp2H7U--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/1303040237404683809.jpg

For those that don't get it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tecumseh_Sherman

[speedpimp]

Pretty sure they still remember Willy T.'s Leisurely Stroll To The Sea.

[overpowered]

http://mic.com/articles/120937/why-charleston-church-shooting-was-act-of-terrorism

[LHutton]

That flag is only acceptable if it's on the roof of a Dodge Charger.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Who cares about the flag? We can take away all of their flags but it won't away racism.

Still, willing to bet this loner/hater/terrorist has mental issues.

Also want to know who the fuck bought him a gun for his birthday. That guy should be sent to Guantanamo Bay too.

[overpowered]

Cruz Touts Depression Era Economics In Stunning Secret Video (http://reverbpress.com/politics/exclusive-cruz-touts-depression-era-economics-stunning-secret-video/)

[overpowered]

Police training needs a lot of improvement.

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/06/california-suspect-charged-for-cop-friendly-fire-shooting/

[overpowered]

Rick Scarborough Is Ready To Burn To Death To Fight Gay Marriage

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/rick-scarborough-ready-burn-death-fight-gay-marriage

[overpowered]

Rick Perry, up to his usual stupid:

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/after-sc-accident-perry-downplays-gun-issue

[thesameguy]

“Also, I think there is a real issue to be talked about. It seems to me – again without having all the details about this – that these individuals have been medicated and there may be a real issue in this country from the standpoint of these drugs and how they’re used.”

I have no idea what's going on, but it's drugs."

:up:

[Jason]

Who cares about the flag? We can take away all of their flags but it won't away racism.

Still, willing to bet this loner/hater/terrorist has mental issues.

Also want to know who the fuck bought him a gun for his birthday. That guy should be sent to Guantanamo Bay too.

Imagine being a black person in the south and seeing a symbol of oppression and terrorism flown in your face every day. Taking away the flag isn't to squash white racists, but rather to not rub it into the face of black Americans.

[JoshInKC]

Imagine being a black person in the south and seeing a symbol of oppression and terrorism flown in your face every day. Taking away the flag isn't to squash white racists, but rather to not rub it into the face of black Americans.

QMFT.

[neanderthal]

Who cares about the flag? We can take away all of their flags but it won't away racism.

Still, willing to bet this loner/hater/terrorist has mental issues.

Also want to know who the fuck bought him a gun for his birthday. That guy should be sent to Guantanamo Bay too.

Went can't the perpetrator simply be a sociopathic fuckwit? Why the need to excuse their behavior and pretend that there was some mental defect.

It's bad enough that mental health is not taken seriously enough in this country, but to now excuse every fuckwit who had sociopathic tendencies and sweep such under a generic "mental health" blanket is a disservice to those people who genuinely have a mental health problem.


Now, anybody who had a genuine mental health need *may* be less inclined to seek treatment , counseling and family support.


And without being racist, or pandering to stereotypes, why is it that almost every single one of the idiots caring out terroristic attacks, if they are white, is supposed to have mental problems, but when is s black dude or the Asian dude they aren't given the same benefit of the doubt of their sociopathic tendencies.

Just call him a racist, sociopathic fuckwit.

[neanderthal]

Imagine being a black person in the south and seeing a symbol of oppression and terrorism flown in your face every day. Taking away the flag isn't to squash white racists, but rather to not rub it into the face of black Americans.


QMFT.

Nuff said.

[Cam]

There's been people gathering to protest Confederate flag at the State Capitol since the shooting. There are gatherings organized tonight in Columbia and Charleston. Meanwhile, South Carolina's rich, white politicians are looking around saying, "What? Nothing wrong here."

I couldn't get to sleep last night because I was thinking too much about the whole situation. I could go on and on. :mad:

[overpowered]

Dylann Roof Manifesto Discovered, Blames Trayvon Martin For Rampage

http://reverbpress.com/news/dylann-roof-manifesto-racist-blames-trayvon-martin/

[overpowered]

I Will Not Argue About the Confederate Flag.

http://www.thetattooedprof.com/archives/407

[overpowered]

Anti-intellectualism Is Killing America

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201506/anti-intellectualism-is-killing-america

[MR2 Fan]

Mitt Romney is now saying to take down the confederate flag...of course he isn't running for office now either, but it's something

[sandydandy]

I couldn't get to sleep last night because I was thinking too much about the whole situation. I could go on and on. :mad: It's a terrible situation. One of those times where I feel blessed to live in a country like Canada. As a former Canadian, I'm sure you must relate in some way. I don't wanna step on any toes, but I must say America is a fucked up place sometimes. This Charleston shooting is reminiscent of that Sikh temple shooting that happened a few years ago, (in Wisconsin I think), and I just can't get my head around it. It's so senseless and so backwards, and is so contrary to every definition of a civilized society. Just makes no sense.

[Cam]

Former Canadian?! :lol:

I! AM! CANADIAN! ;)

[LHutton]

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-ministers-wife-sorry-obama-coffee-gag-190958590.html


Jerusalem (AFP) - The flamboyant wife of Israeli Interior Minister Silvan Shalom published an "inappropriate joke" Sunday about US President Barack Obama on her Twitter account, only to later delete it and apologise.

"Do u know what Obama Coffee is? Black and weak," Judy Shalom Nir-Mozes wrote to her 74,400 followers.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Went can't the perpetrator simply be a sociopathic fuckwit? Why the need to excuse their behavior and pretend that there was some mental defect.

It's bad enough that mental health is not taken seriously enough in this country, but to now excuse every fuckwit who had sociopathic tendencies and sweep such under a generic "mental health" blanket is a disservice to those people who genuinely have a mental health problem.


Now, anybody who had a genuine mental health need *may* be less inclined to seek treatment , counseling and family support.


And without being racist, or pandering to stereotypes, why is it that almost every single one of the idiots caring out terroristic attacks, if they are white, is supposed to have mental problems, but when is s black dude or the Asian dude they aren't given the same benefit of the doubt of their sociopathic tendencies.

Just call him a racist, sociopathic fuckwit.

Sociopathic fuckwit probably has mental issues.

Terrorists most likely also have mental issues.

I think it's perfectly fine for people to have certain preferences or prejudices..., if you hate white people, I can't force you to love white people. We can't force people to not like or dislike something. It's only when they start hurting or killing people that they don't like that's where we need to draw the line.

Similarly, I don't give a fuck about their stupid flag. Yeah, it should belong in a museum. However, I also won't advocate people waving Nazi flags, but I also won't forbid white supremacists from waving such flags. Personally, I'd like to know where such flags are raised... so I would stay the hell away. However, if they start killing Jews or black people again... then of course we'll have to step in and kick their ass and restore justice. But if they just want to pretend that they won the civil war or WWII and white people can really jump, let them live in their fantasy land.

As for the rest of us, we just need to keep our eyes on them.

Anyway, this is why I prefer them raising their flags, so that it'll be easier to see them. If they're all hiding behind the political correctness that's forced upon them, it'll be more difficult to spot them and keep safe distance... But anyway, maybe such stupid folks will advertise themselves on facebook anyway. :smh:

Personally, I think the real cause for these 'mental issues' is basically that these loners were unloved. That's why they're taking it out on others. When you're loved, it's easy to love others. When you're getting fucked all the time, naturally all you know is fuck others up too!

[neanderthal]

You know who I think has mental issues?b A lot of homeless people. A lot of veterans. A lot of people with actual mental issues.

You know who I don't think has mental issues;
Dudes shooting up a church because they think "blacks are taking/ raping their women."
Dudes who shoot up an apt building near a university because they lack the confidence to talk to chics.
Dudes who shoot up a movie theatre for whatever reason.
Dudes who shoot up a school for whatever reason.
Dudes who terrorise an entire region by sniper/ target shooting at innocent people, for whatever reason.
Etc.

Those are sociopaths. And I wouldn't give half a shit if the various states they're locked up in put a bullet in their heads.

And I know people with real mental issues. Who can't hold down a steady job. OR have to be heavily medicated all the time to be somewhat functional. And who wouldn't hurt a flea. And i resent them being lumped in the same easy catchall group with sociopaths.

[Tom Servo]

Not to put too find a point on it, but antisocial personality disorder is a mental issue. It might be one that can cause people to do things you consider evil or reprehensible, but that doesn't actually change it being a mental issue.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, anyway, I don't think we disagree on principle. If you feel better that I call those folks sociopaths, I have no problem with that.

Removal of that stupid flag is step in right direction, but obviously can't cure sociopathic behaviors.

[thesameguy]

Interesting that you define people who are unable to maintain a job or conventional social relationships as having mental issues, whereas someone who shoots up a place as being a sociopath. Medically speaking, this is pretty much nonsense. Most of the shooter types you referred to are psychopaths, whereas the homeless and veterans you referred to are sociopaths. Sociopaths tend to suffer from emotional instability and an apparently lack of empathy as a result. They tend to be bad planners - the type to yell for no reason or punch a person in the face. The type of behavior that makes them seem disturbed. Psychopaths, on the other hand, suffer primarily from a lack of empathy. Unlike sociopaths who tend to be erratic, psychopaths tend to fit in to some degree with society. They are the ones who pack a gun when the go to church and wait a while before shooting up the place. That's why it was called American Psycho and not American Socio. Totally different illnesses, but medically speaking both illnesses. Of course there are a million categories in which to put people who aren't "normal," and someone who shoots up a church isn't necessarily a psychopath and someone who can't hold a job isn't necessarily a sociopath but in terms of two large groups in which to lump people, that's reasonably accurate. In any case, I think it's important that everybody to use the same (and correct) words when diagnosing and maybe condemning human beings.

The link OP posted a day or two ago about the death of intellectualism is very interesting and fits in perfectly with greater conversations about mental illness. Idiots - educated or otherwise - prattling on about Black criminals or Mexicans stealing jobs - are probably not socio- or psychopaths, but they say all sorts of things that people with legitimate mental issues might latch onto and use as a focal point in a future outburst. I don't know how you separate them out - idiocy is probably not treatable - but that's worth some thought. Maybe if we didn't have idiots professing "solutions" to "problems" we a) wouldn't have so many people so angry all the time, and b) we'd have an easier time sorting out the people who can't think clearly from the people who just refuse to.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I still think bottom line is that they weren't loved enough... And blamed their frustration on innocent victims...

An idiot raised in a loving environment most like won't grow up pissed off wish to fuck somebody up.

[speedpimp]

Some times people are so broken that they can't be fixed.

[thesameguy]

An idiot raised in a loving environment most like won't grow up pissed off wish to fuck somebody up.

Unfortunately, that is simply not how it works in practice. People who cannot maintain their emotional state in any way and people who are physically unable to enjoy the bonds that empathy brings don't have the tools to do anything useful with positive environments. That is literally the problem with these conditions - outside forces have insufficient meaning to keep more radical behavior in check.

[Crazed_Insanity]

For those brains that are naturally born a psycho, perhaps you're right. However, my hypothesis is that most twisted minds in existence today are the result of poor/negative environment. Human brains are incredibly plastic especially when young. I think even an defective brain could compensate itself if the right kind of stimulation is applied... Further, once you've twisted a child's mind... once that is set, it will be difficult to reverse it. Adult brains are not very plastic anymore...

With most these cases, they are loners, so either they withdrew themselves when they couldn't find love from parents, etc... or perhaps parents not only failed to love them properly, but also fucked them over. Or there can be other outside forces, such as CIA bombing and killing your family members. Surely those kind of traumatic experience could alter your mind! Of course it's also possible that some babies are born unable to emotionally connect with others..., but I personally doubt all these mass shooters/terrorists were just born that way.

Of course based on my religious belief nothing can be so broken that not even God can fix. It's just a matter of whether if they themselves want to be fixed.

Flags ain't the main issue. Guns also isn't the main issue, but surely with gun control, these killings probably won't be as massive... psycho's in asia could still cut people up in swords, so with less damage done...

Main issue IMHO is our families are now way more broken than before.

Further, with people bickering on universal healthcare, we barely have any resources left for mental healthcare. Too often those who need care are just left on their own... a ticking time bomb waiting to go off.

Best thing we can do now is to ask parents to love one another and love your children. That'd be the best remedy for these tragic events. Oh, and remember to try to love your neighbors too!

[thesameguy]

My neighbor is a dick. Or he can eat a dick. Something about a dick.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't really particularly like my neighbors too, but my God told me to love them anyway... so I will try my best. :p

[speedpimp]

Just found out a couple a weeks ago that the neighbor I've lived next to since '03 is a distant cousin.

[overpowered]

Wrong thread?

Back to topic:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/06/19/refusal-call-charleston-shootings-terrorism-shows-meaningless-propaganda-term/

[FaultyMario]

Obama uses the word 'nigger' in podcast (http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/0/e/c/0ec2e215e1617e68/WTF_-_EPISODE_613_PRESIDENT_BARACK_OBAMA.mp3?c_id=92544 24&expiration=1435041007&hwt=4e4442694bb90bdb02fa9b9bb343a2ab).

[neanderthal]

Obama uses the word 'nigger' in podcast (http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/0/e/c/0ec2e215e1617e68/WTF_-_EPISODE_613_PRESIDENT_BARACK_OBAMA.mp3?c_id=92544 24&expiration=1435041007&hwt=4e4442694bb90bdb02fa9b9bb343a2ab).

And everybody is having a fit about it.

Yet they didn't blink an eye when errbody else called him a nigger these last few years.

It's a strange world we live in. :D

[FaultyMario]

He came across as totally arrogant in that conversation.

I didn't notice the use of the slur.


Edit:

To further elaborate, 2 things, he must be the closest in income to a member of the middle-class as far as presidents go, maybe in the last hundred years... he sounds like a normal person if you will, BUT, but but he really comes across as a know-it-all douchey sort of guy. And even that Dubya halfwit had more of a galvanizing personality. Two examples GWB mountainbiking with L Armstrong in his Crawford ranch, POTUS looks goofy, amateurish. BO talking about how he misses playing basketball, he is trying to sound common people, "I used to play with younger men... I'm frustrated they pity me... I'm not fit anymore". I mean, yes we get the idea, but that's way too cocky... "I play fo realz, y0!" (or like someone we know once said, "hardcore racing driver pyramid").

Isn't that what some of his more informed critics have said, that he comes to the negotiating table with "that attitude". Like he is the only one trying to get things done, or the only one in the room acting in the public's behalf. We ALL know that ALL politicians represent a myriad of interests, and not only his constituency's.

[overpowered]

Foxabetes:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/j8im9j/wack-flag

[speedpimp]

Wrong thread?

]
Seen one thread, seen'em all.

[speedpimp]

And everybody is having a fit about it.

Yet they didn't blink an eye when errbody else called him a nigger these last few years.

It's a strange world we live in. :D

But HE'S THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and (according to some Fox chick) "he's wallowing in the gutter of rap music" or something to that effect.

[overpowered]

What's the big deal? I said it 40 times a day when I was in office -- Richard Nixon

[MR2 Fan]

apparently confederate flag sales are up 3,000% on Amazon.com according to http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/06/confederate-flag-sales-skyrocket-amazon?mbid=social_twitter

Then I saw they just decided to stop selling the flag, as well as Ebay, Etsy, etc.

I'm afraid things will get ugly once these flags do start getting taken down and banned from stores.

[thesameguy]

Confederate flag bubble.

You heard it here first.

[Rikadyn]

where are people suppose to get them now if they want to burn them? suppose you could steal them, kill 2 birds with one stone...

[overpowered]

Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot:

http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/06/23/rush-limbaugh-removal-of-confederate-flag-is-ab/204108

[Crazed_Insanity]

People really need to let the Southerner decide on their own whether to take down the flag.

Forcing this issue won't solve anything.

It's not like poor old confederate flags are being forced to work the field in sub-humane conditions and need our rescuing. Forcing the issue might cause another civil war... or like what has happened already... artificially caused the flag to gain even further popularity.

Ban the guns, gun sales go thru the roof. :rolleyes:
Banning alcohol? Banning drugs? Not only did such bans failed to stop consumption, we end up creating more troubles!

Unless you're a southerner, I'd say leave the damn flag alone. That won't solve the racism problem.

[Tom Servo]

Does anyone here think anybody is forcing any other state to make a decision on this? I haven't seen any movement at all in that direction.

[LHutton]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d49_1434092734


US passes bill to block the training of "repulsive neo-nazi Azov Battalion"

Ukraine’s Azov Battalion is a 1,000-man volunteer militia of the Ukrainian National Guard that Foreign Policy Magazine has characterized as “openly neo-Nazi,” and “fascist.” Ukraine’s Interior Minister Arsen Avakov, who oversees Ukraine’s armed militias, announced that Azov troops would be among the first units to be trained by the Pentagon in Operation Fearless Guardian, prompting significant international concern.


They actually had to pass a bill to cease funding.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Even Mitt Romney isn't technically a Southerner. I know he didn't 'force' them to take down the flag and he doesn't even have a power to do so. However, my point is that he's focusing on the wrong thing. Just directly go condemning the racial killing. Why bother condemning their flag who some of them still think represents their proud heritage?

[Tom Servo]

Because you can do both? You don't have to actually pick one. Also, it's not exactly going out on a limb condemning the killings.

Whether you like it or not, symbols are powerful. It's just a flag, but one that represents a lot of bad things to a lot of people. Having it flying as an official government flag is something that's worthy of people giving their opinions. And much like you don't have to be able to cook to give your opinion on food, you don't have to be a southerner to have an opinion about what the flag represents.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think the opinions of non-southerns regarding that flag are pretty darn clear. Clearly southerners' opinion about their flag differ, that's why it's still flying high.

IMHO, it's hard enough to do just one. You only wish you can do both. Anyway, I just think it's better for the sinner to come to repentance on their own terms rather than forcing them to repent. During the civil war, we forced them to repent of their sins...

Like I said, if those flags are actual people, I'd definitely advocate forcibly setting them 'free'. However, for now, I'd advocate letting them southerners decide on their own whether to take it down. Hope it will. Hope they'll learn the lesson and allow racial tension to ease too... rather than allowing these tragic incidences to go on...

[overpowered]

The people saying that it's not a symbol of racism are lying, plain and simple.

The confederate battle flag didn't even fly over the S.C. state house until 1962. It was raised there as a reaction to the civil rights movement. It was a giant middle finger to civil rights activists. If it was about heritage, it would have been there much longer.

[LHutton]

Not to mention a sign of slavery, which is arguably the same but even worse.

[neanderthal]

The people saying that it's not a symbol of racism are lying, plain and simple.

The confederate battle flag didn't even fly over the S.C. state house until 1962. It was raised there as a reaction to the civil rights movement. It was a giant middle finger to civil rights activists. If it was about heritage, it would have been there much longer.

This.

It's the battle flag of Virginia, not the confederate flag. And it only flew for four years.

[FaultyMario]

Any spelologists here that could explain the meanings of the three flags? (SSB, VBF and CF) All I've read is that awful poem of the white field simbolizing the supremacy of the white land owning male.


I know it's vexylology

[FaultyMario]

Yeah, cause I think Clémenceau meant the south not the whole union when he said what he said about you peeps being decadent.

[overpowered]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/10312511_882710238433340_6599721853046171170_n.jpg ?oh=fdb7f6a2f29a48825e1edf73df956c6d&oe=56201C7E

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t31.0-8/11084195_10153029871776872_4920829151206315355_o.j pg

[overpowered]

Trump's stupid comments about Mexico are starting to cost him money.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/univision-no-miss-universe-due-trump-mexico-comments-n381696

[MR2 Fan]

Confederate Flag problem?
http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a4Ld9R1_460s.jpg

[speedpimp]

Somebody send Sherman on another Leisurely Stroll To The Sea please. Atlanta's waiting.

[Jason]

I think it's kinda dumb to remove the flag from history, such as the General Lee... it existed, it was part of history and culture, no need to erase the past... just take it down, and don't use it going forward... seems pretty simple.

[overpowered]

The white on the General Lee wasn't an erasure. It was a white flag of surrender -- the last flag of the confederacy and coincidentally, the surrender began with General Robert E. Lee surrendering the Army of Northern Virginia to General Ulysses S. Grant.

[overpowered]

I was curious about the state flag of Mississippi. Apparently they had a referendum on changing it in 2001 and a large majority voted to keep it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mississippi

Politicians are unlikely to go against a 64% referendum.

[overpowered]

Abstinence advocate Bristol Palin is knocked up again, and this time she's single, but it was apparently her ex.

[Sad, little man]

I think it's kinda dumb to remove the flag from history, such as the General Lee... it existed, it was part of history and culture, no need to erase the past... just take it down, and don't use it going forward... seems pretty simple.
No Jason, it never existed. It never happened. Just like slavery and Jim Crow... Never happened. We're a completely post-racial society. Look how post-racial we are, we don't even have any nasty racial stuff anywhere in our history. See, look, all of our laws treat people of all races totally equally. No discrimination here, totally post-racial.

[neanderthal]

Abstinence advocate Bristol Palin is knocked up again, and this time she's single, but it was apparently her ex.

She'll make a great Republican politician one day; do as I say, not as I do.

[neanderthal]

I think it's kinda dumb to remove the flag from history, such as the General Lee... it existed, it was part of history and culture, no need to erase the past... just take it down, and don't use it going forward... seems pretty simple.

I don't think the argument is remove it from everything, everywhere, so that there is no trace of it, so much as it is "this flag does not belong on flagpoles on state grounds."

It belongs in a museum. And on toilet paper.

[Sad, little man]

Seriously though... I agree, the main thing here is that the flag needs to be removed from official displays by the government.

I see these things on facebook that say "So this is free speech, this is not?" with photos of a rainbow flag and a confederate flag. I find this totally stupid. Yes, they're both free speech, and this is 'murrica, so I support peoples' right to display either of them. It's just that neither of them really have a place being displayed in any official capacity. I don't think the government should be displaying any flag that deeply alienates anyone, be it a black person or a homophobe. And if you find the American flag alienating, then as stated, this is 'murrica, so you can geeeet out.

[MR2 Fan]

Seriously though... I agree, the main thing here is that the flag needs to be removed from official displays by the government.

I see these things on facebook that say "So this is free speech, this is not?" with photos of a rainbow flag and a confederate flag. I find this totally stupid. Yes, they're both free speech, and this is 'murrica, so I support peoples' right to display either of them. It's just that neither of them really have a place being displayed in any official capacity. I don't think the government should be displaying any flag that deeply alienates anyone, be it a black person or a homophobe. And if you find the American flag alienating, then as stated, this is 'murrica, so you can geeeet out.

Additionally, the flags represent completely opposite things. rainbow flag represents inclusion, confederate flag represents exclusion

[JoshInKC]

Additionally, the flags represent completely opposite things. rainbow flag represents inclusion, confederate flag represents exclusion

Also high treason and armed insurrection. can't forget those.

[Tom Servo]

And SCOTUS rules that same-sex marriage is legal in all 50 states, a violation of the 14th amendment to ban it.

[21Kid]

'bout time

[overpowered]

Scalia is pissed

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/26/antonin-scalia-dissent_n_7671110.html

[Freude am Fahren]

Trump behaves like an adult and bans Univision employees from his golf course.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2015/06/donald-trump-bans-univision-staff-from-his-miami-golf-209570.html


In the letter, Trump writes to Falco, "Please be advised that under no circumstances is any officer or representative of Univision allowed to use Trump National Doral, Miami—its golf courses or any of its facilities. Also, please immediately stop work and close the gate which is being constructed between our respective properties. If this is not done within one week, we will close it."

In a post-script, Trump added: "Please congratulate your Mexican Government officials for having made such outstanding trade deals with the United States. However, inform them that should I become President, those days are over. We are bringing jobs back to the U.S. Also, a meaningful border will be immediately created, not the laughingstock that currently exists."

[Jason]

Regarding the Confederate Flag, I'm absolutely in support of it not being used in any official sense. It's basically America's Nazi flag.

But removing references to it in certain set in the past entertainment is dumb. It'd be like having a wwii movie with Nazi flags.

As far as the removal from the General Lee, I get the joke picture, but I was under the impression it's actually being removed, and I think that's dumb. If we're offended by the flag being on it, remove the car and the "heroes" who wave it, not keep them in place, but whitewashing it's ties away.

Just my opinion though.

[Sad, little man]

Obama this week...

https://twitter.com/ForrestW/status/614458338068312064/photo/1

[Cam]

:lol:

[Jason]

:lol::up:

[Crazed_Insanity]

:D

[MR2 Fan]

between taking down the confederate flag stuff, obamacare and gay marriage...I can just imagine thousands of right-wing wackos brains imploding right now

[overpowered]

http://www.hngn.com/articles/103690/20150624/texas-pastor-will-set-himself-fire-protest-over-gay-marriage.htm


a former Baptist pastor from Texas, who is also against same-sex marriage, has taken it one step further - and beyond - by declaring that he will set himself on fire if the Supreme Court rules in favor of marriage equality.

Rick Scarborough, a Christian political activist, made the bold declaration during a conversation with right-wing minister and politician E.W. Jackson on the National Emergency Coalition Show, a podcast that is linked to the Staying True to America's National Destiny (STAND) group.

[sandydandy]

What if he dies? Won't that be suicide? Wouldn't he go to hell then?

[overpowered]

He'll never actually do it. It's just grand standing.

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/11220071_1137598512933461_9074520701080736288_n.jp g?oh=11dfc3c76e09df240b6c422df77b0abd&oe=55E6EEB7

[overpowered]

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-06/26/14/imagebuzz/webdr08/anigif_optimized-15165-1435343090-3.gif

[Sad, little man]

If Hillary wins the presidency, does Bill Clinton become the first First Gentleman?

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr-mt1P94cQ

http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2015/6/27/this_flag_comes_down_today_bree

http://www.breenewsome.com/

[MR2 Fan]

Surprised it took that long, figured it would have happened a week ago

[Freude am Fahren]

:up:

[speedpimp]

If Hillary wins the presidency, does Bill Clinton become the first First Gentleman?

Yes.

[overpowered]

Hannity Agrees With Cruz: "Today Is Some Of The Darkest 24 Hours In Our Nation's History"

http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/06/26/hannity-agrees-with-cruz-today-is-some-of-the-d/204177

[FaultyMario]

What was that lady arrested for, trespassing?

[Freude am Fahren]

Probably. Stealing property, vandalism maybe too.

[LHutton]

If Hillary wins the presidency, does Bill Clinton become the first First Gentleman?
The first First Gentleman, or the first male First Lady, one of the two anyway??

[overpowered]

What was that lady arrested for, trespassing?

From the article:


The state Bureau of Protective Services confirmed Newsome and one other person were arrested. They are charged with defacing a monument, which is a violation of state law 10-11-315. The law has not been used since it was passed in 2000 during another push to remove the flag from the capitol. They face three years in jail and a $5,000 fine.

Also, the flag has been replaced.

[Freude am Fahren]

I thought they had finally decided to take it down anyway, why put it back up? Or was it just the Governor saying it should come down?

[MR2 Fan]

I thought they had finally decided to take it down anyway, why put it back up? Or was it just the Governor saying it should come down?

It has to be officially voted upon and changed, which may take several more days

[overpowered]

She's not going to have much trouble making bail:

http://recode.net/2015/06/27/confederate-flag-critics-raise-20000-for-bree-newsome-in-three-hours/

Michael Moore also said he would pay for her bail and her defense.

http://www.ibtimes.com/free-bree-newsome-michael-moore-offers-pay-activists-bail-after-arrest-taking-down-1986804

[MR2 Fan]

I'm concerned about this TPP thing, lots of bad reports about the impact it will have, but as usual, its really complicated and not much is being said about the specifics that will happen from what I can see.

Some kind of anti-china trade bill that will severely change copyrights and labor practices?

[overpowered]

Rolling Stone Expose on Koch Industries:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/inside-the-koch-brothers-toxic-empire-20140924

Koch's response:

http://www.kochfacts.com/kf/response-to-rolling-stone-story/

Rolling Stone's response:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/koch-industries-responds-to-rolling-stone-and-we-answer-back-20140929

[Rikadyn]

I'm concerned about this TPP thing, lots of bad reports about the impact it will have, but as usual, its really complicated and not much is being said about the specifics that will happen from what I can see.

Some kind of anti-china trade bill that will severely change copyrights and labor practices?

It forces US Copyright law globally, and allows corporations the right to sue countries into protecting their interests. Also it has been done completely behind closed doors with only way people finding out about it is through occasional leaks. Every time people have pushed for transparency with it, they have been rejected hard.

[overpowered]

Vikings CB Josh Robinson compares gay marriage to pedophilia, incest

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/06/26/minnesota-vikings-josh-robinson-gay-marriage

[MR2 Fan]

someone beat me to making this gif:

http://i.imgur.com/9EHjU1k.gif

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11149402_957917480907249_8730173147007771871_n.jpg ?oh=74b1ebcc2fc046615ed78aba982bb71f&oe=561F86BA

[overpowered]

http://www.theonion.com/article/south-carolina-refuses-remove-confederate-flag-cap-50725

[overpowered]

Who’s burning black churches? Arsonists hit at least 3 Southern congregations in the last 7 days

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/whos-burning-black-churches-arsonists-hit-at-least-3-southern-congregations-in-the-last-7-days/

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-Ez39tVlJc

[overpowered]

Cancel Miss USA, Miss Universe, and the Apprentice

https://www.change.org/p/nbc-cancel-miss-usa-miss-universe-and-the-apprentice

[sandydandy]

The Donald putting his foot in his mouth yet again I see. :smh:

[overpowered]

NBC dumps Trump before change.org even gets to the 300,000 they were aiming for in the petition:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-nbc-dumps-trump-immigration-comments-20150629-story.html

[TheBenior]

It would seem that the publicity-seeking presidential run (I don't think he's ever been a serious candidate) has backfired.

[FaultyMario]

I'm loving Tsipras move, just waiting for what the Troika's going to do and if they're going to wait until monday to announce it.

[overpowered]

Gerrymandering is on the outs in Arizona.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_breakfast_table/features/2015/scotus_roundup/ginsburg_decision_in_arizona_case_supreme_court_ru les_against_gerrymandering.html

Short version, the voters passed an initiative to have districting done by an independent commission.
Partisans who want gerrymandering sued, arguing that the constitution gave the power to the legislature.
SCOTUS finds that with referendums, the voters are the legislature.

Now, Arizona's still going to be a lopsided right wing state, but at least it will probably be a little less so in the house.

[overpowered]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/28/1397420/-It-s-Time-To-Look-Away-Dixieland


But do we really understand “honor” when we honor the Old Confederacy? NO.

Spare me the crap about “States’ Rights.” The Civil War was about states’ rights alright, but if you’re going to say that, you have to use the entire sentence. Repeat after me:

THE CIVIL WAR WAS ABOUT STATES’ RIGHTS TO OWN SLAVES.

Truly, when you say "the war wasn't about slavery," what the rest of us hear is "I've joined the military history branch of the Flat Earth Society."

[overpowered]

Prosecutor who withheld evidence and sent an innocent man to prison for 25 years is actually getting punished for it, for a change:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-godsey/for-the-first-time-ever-a_b_4221000.html

[thesameguy]

Hopefully a civil suit ensues... community service and a week in prison is WEAK SAUCE for taking a man's freedom for YEARS.

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11262274_458273271009328_1151471370163668733_n.jpg ?oh=e7d4e95f9b06b560336b937b308305b0&oe=56272531

[thesameguy]

Um, pretty sure this is a limon.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jEDf1ITI1a4/UYlLZ7nx8_I/AAAAAAAACMI/kf1c7RoMYsY/s400/9828161-half-lemon-half-lime-merge-as-a-one-fruit-isolated-on-white.jpg

[overpowered]

Trump is 2nd in the polls among GOP candidates:

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-gop-primary

[overpowered]

Surprisingly, being gay has been legal in Turkey for longer than it has been in most western countries. However, that doesn't mean that there's not still a lot of hostility to it:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/11704462/Turkish-police-use-water-cannon-and-tear-gas-to-disperse-crowds-at-Istanbul-Gay-Pride.html

[LHutton]

I'd be more concerned about Turkey buying oil from ISIS.

[overpowered]

Macy's dumps Trump:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/style-blog/wp/2015/06/30/700000-protesters-beseech-macys-to-get-rid-of-donald-j-trump-clothing-and-merchandise/?tid=sm_fb

[21Kid]

:lol:

Trump responded with his own statement, suggesting that he was breaking up with them first anyway. It read in part: “I have decided to terminate my relationship with Macy’s because of the pressure being put on them by outside sources. While selling Trump ties and shirts at Macy’s is a small business in terms of dollar volume, my principles are far more important and therefore much more valuable.”

[FaultyMario]

Um, pretty sure this is a limon.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jEDf1ITI1a4/UYlLZ7nx8_I/AAAAAAAACMI/kf1c7RoMYsY/s400/9828161-half-lemon-half-lime-merge-as-a-one-fruit-isolated-on-white.jpg

Limones are smaller and much closer to green. Limas are yellowish, sweeter and have a bigger nipples.
I think the original image had it backwards.

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11209534_10153044399326872_9079975987313030115_n.p ng?oh=deec17a944bac89278ef687d8f16346a&oe=561B4F55

[FaultyMario]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=25&v=7JT-VGiYBGc

I know salmons would vote for Cruz if they could.

[Sad, little man]

The only think ickier than having a portrait of yourself painted which blatantly fakes your race is inventing a controversy where someone supposedly had a portrait painted of themselves that blatantly fakes their race.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/02/09/bobby-jindal-portrait-white-race/23123379/

[Freude am Fahren]

His actual portrait is also quite pale, but he's not completely wrong about it being overblown. That video of a LA Indian-American woman complaining about him not being Indian enough for her is also kind of a load of shit. HOWEVER,

The left is devoid of ideas and this is, unfortunately, what they've resorted to — name calling, attacking, dividing people by the color of their skin. This is nonsense. We're all Americans."
American politics really is the most blatant representation of pot calling the kettle black/why don't you look in the mirror/hypocrisy in the world

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/11168541_1141484809211498_1932439625231352833_n.jp g?oh=7e0c7372e46822f82edd33296f947ea3&oe=5628511E

[overpowered]

6 black churches burned in 2 weeks.

[overpowered]

More people dumping Trump:

http://gawker.com/a-comprehensive-list-of-everyone-trying-to-sever-ties-w-1715314213

[thesameguy]

Fuckin' City of New York. :up:

[21Kid]

Chicago brewery renames their Donald Trump beer (http://boingboing.net/2015/07/02/chicago-brewery-renames-their.html)

Araya told Chicago radio station WBEZ the brewery is going to stop making beer for Trump Tower's Rebar, and instead insult the orange-haired pendejo by re-christening what's left, 'Fuck Your Hair'

[overpowered]

He's actually pretty high in the polls with republican voters. If he gets the nomination, which admittedly is still pretty unlikely, he'll take a huge hit in the general election with hispanic voters, many of whom do tend to vote conservative. He could theoretically even lose Texas and/or Arizona due to that and would almost certainly lose Florida.

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11168153_844898168934531_292226693850226829_n.jpg? oh=7b8c47f73ffea3c9a1cabf7635a5780a&oe=562F484E

[overpowered]

From 2012:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ACCHxF4Afc

[overpowered]

http://swampland.time.com/2012/08/23/the-party-of-no-new-details-on-the-gop-plot-to-obstruct-obama/


It reveals some of my reporting on the Republican plot to obstruct President Obama before he even took office, including secret meetings led by House GOP whip Eric Cantor (in December 2008) and Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell (in early January 2009) in which they laid out their daring (though cynical and political) no-honeymoon strategy of all-out resistance to a popular President-elect during an economic emergency. “If he was for it,” former Ohio Senator George Voinovich explained, “we had to be against it.”

[overpowered]

5 Ways Powerful People Trick You Into Hating Protesters

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-powerful-people-trick-you-into-hating-underdogs/

[21Kid]

It reveals some of my reporting on the Republican plot to obstruct President Obama before he even took office, including secret meetings led by House GOP whip Eric Cantor (in December 2008) and Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell (in early January 2009) in which they laid out their daring (though cynical and political) no-honeymoon strategy of all-out resistance to a popular President-elect during an economic emergency. “If he was for it,” former Ohio Senator George Voinovich explained, “we had to be against it.:smh: Unfortunately, that's not a surprise at all. And nothing will happen because of it. :( Either in the polls or legally.

[MR2 Fan]

:smh: Unfortunately, that's not a surprise at all. And nothing will happen because of it. :( Either in the polls or legally.

and that article is from 2012

[overpowered]

Colorado’s Effort Against Teenage Pregnancies Is a Startling Success

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/06/science/colorados-push-against-teenage-pregnancies-is-a-startling-success.html


Over the past six years, Colorado has conducted one of the largest ever real-life experiments with long-acting birth control. If teenagers and poor women were offered free intrauterine devices and implants that prevent pregnancy for years, state officials asked, would those women choose them?

They did in a big way, and the results were startling. The birthrate for teenagers across the state plunged by 40 percent from 2009 to 2013, while their rate of abortions fell by 42 percent, according to the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment. There was a similar decline in births for another group particularly vulnerable to unplanned pregnancies: unmarried women under 25 who have not finished high school.

Colorado experienced no hurricanes during this experiment.

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/t31.0-8/11731952_1178105092216562_7014754517728784213_o.pn g

[thesameguy]

Colorado’s Effort Against Teenage Pregnancies Is a Startling Success

Colorado experienced no hurricanes during this experiment.

Yet.

[Freude am Fahren]

Colorado’s Effort Against Teenage Pregnancies Is a Startling Success

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/06/science/colorados-push-against-teenage-pregnancies-is-a-startling-success.html


Colorado experienced no hurricanes during this experiment.

:lol: to your add at the end.

For all the problems this world faces currently; pollution, global warming, dwindling resources, disease, bad economies. They can pretty much be solved in a generation or two, if people would just stop having so many damn babies. Imagine if the world got back down to ~5 billion people.

[MR2 Fan]

Actually this is a very good video regarding statistics about world population (and what it has to do with religion)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezVk1ahRF78

[thesameguy]

For all the problems this world faces currently; pollution, global warming, dwindling resources, disease, bad economies. They can pretty much be solved in a generation or two, if people would just stop having so many damn babies. Imagine if the world got back down to ~5 billion people.

Not sure about a generation or two, but certainly in a lifetime. Can you even imagine?

[Freude am Fahren]

Actually this is a very good video regarding statistics about world population (and what it has to do with religion)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezVk1ahRF78

Very good. Also, get that man a laser pointer!

[Jason]

If we were to truly share resources, then I don't even think we'd need to cut down on population.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRMibke_S5s

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rCgtGgy1Ps

[FaultyMario]

If States in the U.S. don't have the right to secede , can somebody explain VT's case?

[overpowered]

Wut?

[FaultyMario]

Didnt texas sue for her right to secede the union in the XIX century? Aren't Vermontians fed up with your shit that they're slowly creeping up to what that decision deemed necessary to become independent?

[overpowered]

Texas lost that suit. I am unaware of what you are talking about with Vermont.

[overpowered]

Greeks apologise with huge horse

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/greeks-apologise-with-huge-horse-2012051527146

[TheBenior]

There's a Vermont secessionist movement (Second Vermont Republic) which has had up to 13% support in polls, but none of their candidates have gotten over 5% of the vote in state wide elections.

[Dicknose]

5% of Vermont - thats 5 people?

[Tom Servo]

I like that the Young Turks Sarah Palin ad OP posted earlier is showing me a "Join the NRA" ad.

[FaultyMario]

The strong dollar can jeopardize the U.S.'s economy?

THANKS OBAMA! (This one is his "fault", actually)

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/16898_814093758683680_2354897951292915290_n.jpg?oh =8ad58758401b17d8f584bbbfacbd1168&oe=56196767

[overpowered]

Donald Trump vs. Danny Zuker get in a Twitter war:

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/06/1399563/-Donald-Trump-gets-into-Twitter-war-with-Modern-Family-writer-is-obliterated

[21Kid]

That's definitely who I want as president, representing our country. :smh:

[Tom Servo]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/gop-chief-calls-donald-trump-tell-him-tone-it-down-n389056?cid=sm_tw&hootPostID=9bf588f34ea68ad91a2c310c0c202658

[FaultyMario]

Yeah homes! The reconquista of the lands of the gold people from Aztlan is on its way! The golden coast is white no more! #brownpride #vivalaraza #latinotokenisms4lyfe

15M latinos, 14.9M non hispanic whites now live in the bear republic

[overpowered]

Bear republic? Do you mean California? It's pretty much a lost cause for the GOP anymore. They don't try very hard here. There's no point to it.

Now if hispanics could tilt Texas or Arizona away from the GOP, that would be something. Trump as the candidate might be enough to get even some very conservative hispanics to vote democrat or just not vote. He'll certainly repulse all of the moderates. He might even get some liberals to actually vote.

26.4% of eligible voters in Texas are hispanic. Romney got 58% of the Texas vote. Some people who've analyzed it predict that that number will drop for GOP in 2016 but not by enough for a democrat to win. I doubt they considered Trump a candidate though.

[overpowered]

Warren, McCain introduce bill to bring back Glass-Steagall

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/247093-warren-mccain-introduce-bill-to-bring-back-glass-steagall

I totally expected Warren to be in on something like this. I did not expect that a Republican would be doing this.

[overpowered]

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2015/07/trump-leads-gop-field-in-north-carolina.html

:smh:

[thesameguy]

Warren, McCain introduce bill to bring back Glass-Steagall

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/247093-warren-mccain-introduce-bill-to-bring-back-glass-steagall

I totally expected Warren to be in on something like this. I did not expect that a Republican would be doing this.

I feel like McCain is moving away from the party line into sensibility now that he doesn't have any hope for the future from them.

[overpowered]

Exxon knew of climate change in 1981– but it funded deniers for 27 more years

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/revealed-exxon-knew-of-climate-change-in-1981-but-it-funded-deniers-for-27-more-years/

[FaultyMario]

1296

Someone needs to change the ampersand for a rattlesnake.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz7_JP7ROvA

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXUPDAMc_6o

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI7f36prRno

[21Kid]

As he said, I don't know how anyone that can tie their shoes would believe what Paul is saying to be true. :erm:

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwJt4bcnXs

[21Kid]

Jebify your life! (http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/13/opinions/wheeler-jeb-bush/index.html) :lol:


Flat wages, shrinking bank accounts, declining living standards -- we've been thinking these were mystifyingly complex problems that resisted clear solutions. Turns out there's a simple way to make more money all along: We just needed GOP presidential candidate Jeb Bush to point it out to us.

The answer? Just work more hours. In other words: "Jebify" your life.

And, come to think of it, why stop with your job? There are so many other problems in life that can be solved by Jebifying. Did you buy your home before the housing market tanked, and now you're underwater on your mortgage? No problem. Jebify your house. Just as you spend more time at work to earn a bigger paycheck, you can spend more time on home improvement to increase the value of your home.

[thesameguy]

Well, he's not wrong, and while the spirit of that article is quite mocking there is a message there I wish more people would learn. We have grown such an amazing culture of luxury in this country I would be shocked to find than even 1 out of 5 people know what it is to truly work hard. I can't think of anybody in my life who works harder than I do (and I mean the combination of my efforts at work, and my efforts at home so I don't have to pay someone else) and frankly I don't feel like I work that hard. Compared to my father or my grandfather I'm not in the same ballpark. Most people I know put in a grueling 8 hour facebook day, punctuated by a document or a phone call now and again and then go home and do nothing. There is value in having an office job and there is value in making money so you can pay people to do things you don't want to, but the problem is that culture pervades "downwards" into people that don't have office jobs and can't afford to pay people to do what they don't want to do. I know what I make, what I save, what I "waste" on luxury, and suffice to say most people in my life spend way more and make way less because they don't do anything themselves. They "work" their eight hours, and the remaining sixteen is for takin' a load off. When my grandfather would kick his shoes off and watch the game, he earned it. 50 hours a week as carpenter for 40 years, you betcha. Me? I definitely haven't earned it. When I get home, I've got a solid 2-3 hours of more work in me, and I don't reward myself til I'm spent. It may be overboard, but working until you're tired is what built this country, not working until 5pm.

[thesameguy]

... because that makes it sound like I only associate with white collar professionals, I want to be clear that's not the case. I know people who fix cars for a living, people who do landscaping, a couple USPS guys, and a guy who makes iron gates & railings. The amount of bullshit most of those guys buy, and the jobs they pay other people to do for them so as to not encroach on their "me time" is astounding. My grandfather would not approve.

[21Kid]

I understand your point, and definitely agree. Some people think they should be paid a lot more for doing average work.

I thought the point they were trying to make is that the pay hasn't kept up with times.
Someone working today, as hard as your grandfather worked, would not be paid the same, accounting for inflation. So, he should just work even longer/harder.

[thesameguy]

I know, I get that. But they could have phrased the article as "the problem with this is..." rather than "what a stupid idea." The latter sells better, but it just reinforces the notion that working more is a ridiculous approach. IMHO, the vast majority of Americans *should* work harder. They should buy fewer iPhones, less BMWs and smaller TVs. They should not pay people to mow their lawn so they can watch more TV and they should learn how something works so that they don't have to pay people to do everything for them, and so they can be a better value to themselves and others. They shouldn't mock the idea of working harder, they should mock the idea that they're not worth more. Broadly, if people produced more and consumed less things might start to straighten out a little. One of the single largest issues we're facing as a society of consumers is the inherent imbalance that creates - when your wage-earning (or wage SAVING) value decreases because you're less competent, your ability to pay "good" money for the things you need decreases, and then the people you buy from have to charge less to stay in business and they find shortcuts to deliver that. Never mind the whole subprime economy that has sprung up to support that cycle.

Hugely complex problem, but I think the core of it is that we should encourage the "I am here to produce" attitude far more than we should encourage the "I am here to consume" attitude. "Jebify" sure sounds like promoting the latter.

[George]

...we should encourage the "I am here to produce" attitude far more than we should encourage the "I am here to consume" attitude.

Indeed.

I have mentioned before that I enjoy Old Time Radio dramas from the 1940s - 1960s. There are tons of shows and entire series for free at www.archive.org. Recently I re-listened to the entire run of Dragnet radio episodes (1949 - mid '50s before reruns started and ran for years, if not decades in some markets, such as Armed Forces Radio).

I should admit that I listen to these mostly at work with headphones, which on the surface sounds like goofing off, but actually helps me be more productive while doing boring stretches of Excel work, data entry, etc.

Finally getting to the point here, during the Korean War and early Cold War, there were often public service announcements during these broadcasts reminding Americans that every job was important and high production in all areas of endeavor were key to "overcoming threats from overseas" and similar vague language about who the enemy actually was, but that everyone needed to produce to the best of their ability at whatever they did for a living. I think back then Americans were used to doing whatever it took to win - not just at war, but winning in manufacturing, construction, farming, mining, and whatever other industries one cares to name. Too many generations, including my own, have coasted through life too easily in comparison.

As I heard a wise man say recently about current times, "too many people want to ride in the wagon and too few are willing to pull it."

[Jason]

Well, he's not wrong, and while the spirit of that article is quite mocking there is a message there I wish more people would learn. We have grown such an amazing culture of luxury in this country I would be shocked to find than even 1 out of 5 people know what it is to truly work hard. I can't think of anybody in my life who works harder than I do (and I mean the combination of my efforts at work, and my efforts at home so I don't have to pay someone else) and frankly I don't feel like I work that hard. Compared to my father or my grandfather I'm not in the same ballpark. Most people I know put in a grueling 8 hour facebook day, punctuated by a document or a phone call now and again and then go home and do nothing. There is value in having an office job and there is value in making money so you can pay people to do things you don't want to, but the problem is that culture pervades "downwards" into people that don't have office jobs and can't afford to pay people to do what they don't want to do. I know what I make, what I save, what I "waste" on luxury, and suffice to say most people in my life spend way more and make way less because they don't do anything themselves. They "work" their eight hours, and the remaining sixteen is for takin' a load off. When my grandfather would kick his shoes off and watch the game, he earned it. 50 hours a week as carpenter for 40 years, you betcha. Me? I definitely haven't earned it. When I get home, I've got a solid 2-3 hours of more work in me, and I don't reward myself til I'm spent. It may be overboard, but working until you're tired is what built this country, not working until 5pm.

There's an argument to be had that it's a responsibility of a generation to leave things in a better condition/provide a better quality of life for the next generation. I'd argue that every generation spanning back to cavemen have had it easier than the previous generation.

[overpowered]

President Obama Grants Clemency to 46 People, Will Make Big Push for Criminal Justice Reform This Week

http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/2015/07/president-obama-grants-clemency-46-people-will-make-big-push-criminal-justice-reform-we

[thesameguy]

I think back then Americans were used to doing whatever it took to win - not just at war, but winning in manufacturing, construction, farming, mining, and whatever other industries one cares to name. Too many generations, including my own, have coasted through life too easily in comparison.

I think the difference is that at some point along the way we traded the spoils from winning at production into having stuff, and the definition of winning changed from "winning at production" to "winning at consumption." I think the original mission was to work the hardest to be able to have all the nice stuff, and that has been corrupted into doing whatever it takes to have the nicest stuff. The second part doesn't actually work without the first.



There's an argument to be had that it's a responsibility of a generation to leave things in a better condition/provide a better quality of life for the next generation. I'd argue that every generation spanning back to cavemen have had it easier than the previous generation.

Yup, that's true. But like so many things we're encountering today, it seems the trend set by history doesn't run forever. At some point in time, we have to stop burning all the oil, stop eating all the cows, stop trying to acquire all the things, and stop measuring ourselves by how much oil, cows, and things we have. You know?

[21Kid]

On the flip side: Maybe it is because people have been working so hard for so long, without seeing a benefit, that they feel like they are due a raise.


Productivity has surged, but income and wages have stagnated for most Americans. If the median household income had kept pace with the economy since 1970, it would now be nearly $92,000, not $50,000.
http://www.motherjones.com/files/Screen%20Shot%202013-03-08%20at%2011.36.19%20AM.png
other charts (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/06/speedup-americans-working-harder-charts)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Productivity surged by companies producing more efficiently... either more work with same amount of labor or same amount of work with less laborers. So those employed could end up making more money, but most likely not. Further, unless those laid off can afford to become purely consumers, they will have to probably settle for less paying jobs. Consequently, average isn't moving up as quickly as productivity... also, resulting in rich and employed getting richer, but the poor folks end up poorer.

If you're a hard worker and bring in lots of dough for the company, surely after you asked for a raise, your boss would give it to you! As for the rest of us slackers, why should companies pay you more for posting on FB or forums? ;) There are plenty of others willing to take your place with the same pay.

I do believe government should perhaps step in and set a minimum 'living' wage. However, once that minimum is established, it really should be up to you how much money you make. Current average is market driven.

[LHutton]

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/right-sector-withdraws-from-front-as-conflict-with-government-escalates-videos-393265.html


Conflict between Right Sector and government escalates (in Ukraine)

[overpowered]

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/07/california-police-forced-to-release-dashcam-videos-of-cop-killing-innocent-man/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VpGgp0nCjE

[overpowered]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republicans-knee-jerk-hatred-of-the-iran-deal/2015/07/14/e62f32c4-2a5a-11e5-a5ea-cf74396e59ec_story.html


Negotiators in Vienna had announced the Iran nuclear deal only an hour earlier, but Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a Republican presidential candidate, was already on the airwaves denouncing it.

“You have created a possible death sentence for Israel,” he declared on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.”

“This is a virtual declaration of war against Sunni Arabs,” he said.

“This is the most dangerous, irresponsible step I have ever seen in the history of watching the Mideast. Barack Obama, John Kerry, have been dangerously naive,” he added.

Tough stuff. But had Graham actually seen the deal?

“No,” he admitted, when host Mika Brzezinski asked him.

“I don’t understand,” another host, Mike Barnicle, told Graham, “how you can be so certain without having read the deal yet.”

“Because I have been to the Mideast enough to know,” Graham replied.

[thesameguy]

"I have no idea what I'm talking about, but trust me I know what I'm talking about."

[21Kid]

:smh: wow...

[overpowered]

What's the Alternative to Obama's Iran Deal?

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/alternatives-obama-iran-nuclear-deal-israel/389751/

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'd like to hear what Netanyahu or Graham have to say regarding the other options...

Anyway, what really is the big deal? America cutting deals, waging wars... is the world a much better place? Are the rest of the world even thankful of US's WWII efforts?

It's really time to stop messing around with other nations and worry more about USA first.

As for Israel, God promised that she won't die. Trust in God that He will save her. It's not the job of Republicans!

[overpowered]

Jade Helm has started.

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11102773_841017989324590_5028796925271955160_n.jpg ?oh=6e4c11bac511582edeef4f39eeb4a6a2&oe=5611AD29

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11745537_923669231027950_5826644629075694024_n.png ?oh=0ea87ae1652e66951fb6261e4a81b966&oe=5613E076

[overpowered]

Scott Walker:

http://thinkprogress.org/election/2015/07/16/3681277/breaking-court-orders-prosectors-stop-investigating-scott-walkers-alleged-illegal-coordination/

[21Kid]

Getting into trouble due to your corrupt politics? Hire corrupt judges to make it go away, obviously. :smh:

There's got to be a way to appeal that, or take it to a higher court, right?

[21Kid]

https://youtu.be/ygeJSFmuVbk

[MR2 Fan]

This is a very long article, but very interesting to me...related to "post-capitalism" and newly found Marx stuff that isn't really about socialism/communism

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/17/postcapitalism-end-of-capitalism-begun?CMP=share_btn_tw

[overpowered]

There's a simple way to end gerrymandering. Too bad Congress made it illegal.

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/17/8980137/fix-gerrymandering-multiple-member-districts

[mk]

(din't read the long article)

I'd say that Marx's basic idea was that private can't be trusted and so public is much better because it's many privates.
There is also possible differences between how east and west rulers are understood.
(west ruler oppress people, east ruler saves them from oligarchs)

For now I'd say that Putin is not an east ruler but I don't know what happens there, all I know is what western mass media is telling and I could pedal to st. Petersburg in few days.
Pure east ruler is in Japan.

[LHutton]

I think gerrymandering is redrawing constituency boundaries to help you win seats. Labour did a whole shed load of that here between 1997 and 2010. E.g. York was split into York inner and outer so they could win 1 labour seat - the only one Labour constituency in the whole of North Yorkshire.

[Tom Servo]

The city council in LA has done a pretty good job of that too. My council district is bizarrely shaped.

[overpowered]

More Trump insanity. The chickenhawk slams McCain for being captured in Vietnam:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/07/18/trump-slams-mccain-for-being-captured-in-vietnam/

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11742899_1151681854858460_6388415776746352427_n.jp g?oh=13261477f37decd6e3088e7c2d21114f&oe=564B996A

[MR2 Fan]

from http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/19/us/south-carolina-kkk-black-panther-rally/index.html



"The Confederate flag does not represent hate. A lot of Americans died for that flag," one member of the KKK said

:lol: you can't make this shit up

[Cam]

Wow. Just wow. :|

[LHutton]

When you're a member of the KKK, your opinion on what constitutes hate is automatically null and void.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtVVz0UtRJc

[LHutton]

So which one will win the Republican primaries in 40 years time?

[speedpimp]

Apparently there was a Confederate flag greeting for Obama in Oklahoma and it was organized by a black man. Here (http://time.com/3960867/obama-confederate-flag-oklahoma/).

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11745727_1152757588084220_7598586922251365454_n.jp g?oh=274f0b3da47f6fa9782b353c5baf1c85&oe=56552AD4

[Sad, little man]

I'm surprised they used the more complicated variant of "your" instead of the correct, simpler one.

[George]

Okay, this is hardly about recent politics, or politics at all really, but I read an interview with Jimmy Carter in yesterday's Denver Post. Of course, being a Colorado paper, they had to mention marijuana. I knew he had called for reduced punishment for marijuana when he was president, and I knew he was friends with the Allman Brothers when he was governor of Georgia, but I had not heard this story before.



Q: Your old buddy, Willie Nelson, has that story about smoking pot on the roof of the White House when he visited you in office.

A: (Laughs) ...I love Willie, and as he points out in his autobiography, he went up on the roof after we finished running five miles with some people and smoked pot.


When I first read that, I was positive he said "WE went up...", not "he went up". :lol:

Article: http://www.denverpost.com/entertainment/ci_28495867/jimmy-carter-spit-shines-legacy-advocacy-new-book

[Alan P]

So does Bernie Sanders have a chance? Could he end up as VP to Hilary? Could he even stand as a proper independent?

[thesameguy]

That whole ticket turns my stomach.

[overpowered]

I think it's possible for Bernie to win the nomination. I think he's got less of a chance than Hillary in the general election though.

[overpowered]

Lindsey Graham: Donald Trump is a ‘jackass’

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/lindsey-graham-donald-trump-is-a-jackass-120386.html

I wonder what the Donald's response to that will be?

[Sad, little man]

Probably something like this...

http://media.giphy.com/media/TLayDh2IZOHPW/giphy.gif

[George]

While Vermont is now known as a super-liberal state, when I lived there for ten years I only knew farmers and other hard-working blue collar types who were decidedly conservative in all things, even with their famed terseness in speech - a trait I certainly did not inherit as a native son.

My aunt and uncle, lifelong Vermonters, are now deceased but when the internet first got going and older folks started forwarding those darn political emails with 72-point typefaces in bright colors (which my father, age 82, still does), all I heard about for years was how awful the Socialist Bernie Sanders was. I don't much care either way, but I just have to chuckle about how he now seems to be the choice of young liberals.

Given my far-right stance in 1990s, which has evolved greatly since the self-destruction of the Republican party since then, I'm surprised to be saying this, but I think Mrs. Clinton is completely and uniquely qualified to be president, and I believe she would win if the election were held today. That doesn't mean I'll necessarily vote for her, but I won't be surprised or disappointed if she wins. Differing politics doesn't always mean one despises the other person, and I figure she'll probably do the job as well as anyone could.

But, as history has shown us time and time again, it's way too early to start picking winners, or even nominees.

As an amateur student of history, I think it's very interesting that there is a Bush and a Clinton running for president. I figure Jeb Bush has no chance at all, but time will tell. I don't claim to know what will happen, but it's fun to watch the circus every four years. My parents and most of their friends their ages that are on the email list for conservatives who don't realize how wacky the Republicans have become are strong Trump supporters. I admire Trump's candor and muck-raking ability, but I can't see how older folks who should know better from many, many decades of experience can be swayed by such a snake-oil salesman and would want him to be, if nothing else, the spokesman for this country.

I didn't vote for Mr. Obama, but I respect his efforts and 99% of the time when I hear a soundbite or read a news story, I'm proud to call him my president and I think he represents us well. Opening relations with Cuba is something I'm particularly pleased with, but maybe that's just because I'd like to vacation there someday.

I don't think Hillary will do any worse, if she wins the nomination and the election.

[overpowered]

Bernie's not that far left really. He's a bit left of center but he's no Vladimir Lenin. He wants free or at least sane health care. He wants free education. The usual stuff.

He's a socialist in the northwestern European sense -- not the Soviet/PRC sense.

[overpowered]

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-gop-primary

:smh:

[Alan P]

Trump? Seriously? If ever there were a person who would want to step on the little guys to make himself and his cronies richer, it's him.

[FaultyMario]

From newsdotgoogle front page:

Media still don't get Trump, freak out over attack on McCain

Fox News - 3 hours ago

[MR2 Fan]

oh yes, those technical terms "freak out"...classy

[21Kid]

I didn't vote for Mr. Obama, but I respect his efforts and 99% of the time when I hear a soundbite or read a news story, I'm proud to call him my president and I think he represents us well. :clap: I wish more people were able to see both sides, or at least respect the position. I kept an open mind during the last election because I wanted to hear both sides before making my decision. But, watching the Republican National Conference, I just couldn't bring myself to believe, or agree with hardly anything they said. It all seemed like lies, misguided opinions, or would send us backwards as a nation.
And after all of the "let's do everything possible just to make sure Obama fails". I don't know how I can trust anyone currently aligned with their cause. I used to try and be as centered as possible. But, they have moved so far away from working for the people, and the best interests of our nation, that I don't see any benefit to anyone in their current roster. :(


Trump? Seriously? If ever there were a person who would want to step on the little guys to make himself and his cronies richer, it's him.I don't see the problem... That's exactly what they want. :smh:

[MR2 Fan]

:clap: I wish more people were able to see both sides, or at least respect the position. I kept an open mind during the last election because I wanted to hear both sides before making my decision. But, watching the Republican National Conference, I just couldn't bring myself to believe, or agree with hardly anything they said. It all seemed like lies, misguided opinions, or would send us backwards as a nation.
And after all of the "let's do everything possible just to make sure Obama fails". I don't know how I can trust anyone currently aligned with their cause. I used to try and be as centered as possible. But, they have moved so far away from working for the people, and the best interests of our nation, that I don't see any benefit to anyone in their current roster. :(

Or basically saying "I'd like to understand the GOP's point of view, but unfortunately I'm incapable of sticking my head that far up my ass"

[21Kid]

I was trying to be fair... and balanced. ;)

[LHutton]

I'm surprised they used the more complicated variant of "your" instead of the correct, simpler one.
Well they certainly used the simpler incorrect version of 'know'.

[George]

Donald Trump gave out Lindsey Graham's personal cell number to America (http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/21/politics/donald-trump-lindsey-graham-cell-phone/index.html)

Commander In Chief material? I think not.

[MR2 Fan]

semi-political/religious:

Christian Fundamentalists want to ban books about Muslim Fundamentalists banning books

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/christian-florida-parents-want-to-ban-books-about-muslim-fundamentalists-banning-books/

[thesameguy]

The pot calling the kettle calling the pot black?

[overpowered]

More awesome from the Onion.

http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/admit-it-you-people-want-see-how-far-goes-dont-you-50895

[LHutton]

I don't think the Republicans actually want to win in 2016. That's the only rational conclusion. A turd sandwich without the bread would have more of a chance than Trump.

[21Kid]

I don't know. Not to be mean, but doesn't he represent their real agenda? More money for rich folks, get rid of the colored people, cut funds to all social programs, etc... He just isn't trying to hid it. At ALL :smh: I mean it sounds horrible... But, there has to be a reason that his poll numbers are going up. :(

[MR2 Fan]

I don't know. Not to be mean, but doesn't he represent their real agenda? More money for rich folks, get rid of the colored people, cut funds to all social programs, etc... He just isn't trying to hid it. At ALL :smh: I mean it sounds horrible... But, there has to be a reason that his poll numbers are going up. :(

I think its great...he has no chance in a real election, and meanwhile he's busy torpedoing the other GOP candidates.

[21Kid]

Just read the comments about him...

Say it like you see it, Good for Him. No Political BS
I at least like the fact that the Donald is not a politician. He says what is on his mind instead of the idle chatter of all the politicians.
He is not bought and paid for by the powers that be.
Maybe he will get in and expose the government for the criminals that they are and have been for years. They have done nothing but set their selves up for life to live like Kings and Queens. Citizens be damned.
How can they ever do what is best for US, if they don't live like US?
Why are illegal immigrants allowed to stay here? Is there something we don't know?
Why do the rich get richer and the rest suffer? I suspect most rich, including politicians, didn't get that way by being model citizens.
What happened to the middle class? I don't understand this line of thinking... He seems to be the exact person that would perpetuate what this person is describing. :erm:



All the dynasty politicians like Bush and Clinton, all the life-long politicians like McCain, Graham, Schumer, Pelosi, all the special interests, lobbyists, crony capitalists and the corrupt, lying media outlets: You can smear and lie about Trump, but Trump is fighting the good fight for the people. Trump will take back America and make it great again. Fight all you want, because if you hit him, he will hit back.:smh:



LOL gave out Graham's phone number...love this guy. Would SO MUCH rather have him, who is up front and tells it like it is than the corrupt #$%$ kissers that ONLY work for big business which in turn pads their own agendas, and therefore cares nothing about straightening out the problems of the U.S.Ugh.. He IS big business. :|



Fact, Donald Trump said he loves and respects Mexican immigrants which the press is lying about. He made a statement concerning those who are not immigrants but in our country illegally.
There is a "road to Citizenship" it is the law of the land and how many of our citizens have come to America. Those are the people he says, we want and need as Americans and that is correct.
Those that come here illegally are not wanted nor needed, they are criminals the moment they step across the river or how ever else they come here. The press are liars and are being paid to push Trump out because he scares heIl out of both political parties.
A vote for Trump is a vote for America, a vote for a lawyer/politician is a vote for the status quo. Wake up and smell the coffee America.:(

[Crazed_Insanity]

I guess Trump is Republican's version of Obama? He gave them the audacity to hope? Unlike other career politicians which are now less trustworthy because we all know they're controlled by big money. It's obvious Trump is out of control eventhough he is big money! :D He also likes to say politically incorrect shit which people on the right like to hear... so I guess it's understandable that he's popular right now.

Anyway, maybe someday when trumps becomes president, Will Ferrell can make an autobiographical movie called, PresidentMan: The Legend of Donald Trump!

[George]

^ Good bunch of quotes there. That's exactly why people like him. My parents think he's great. They say he's the chest-pounding, git-'er-done kind of man this country needs, like "TR" Roosevelt or Jack Kennedy or "Dutch" Reagan.

*pounds fist on table* :lol:

Again, I don't support him for President, but I can easily understand why people like him. I've even caught myself thinking "Hell yeah!" about a couple things he's said.

OTOH, I gave President Obama a "Hell yeah!" the other day when I saw a snippet of him on the TV saying something like this (not an exact quote):

When I go out and talk to people, everyone has a phone up in front of their face, taking pictures and video. People, put down the phones for a minute and shake hands with your president! :up:

[21Kid]

:eek: Does Trumps campaign manager have it out for him? Who thought this was a good idea???


Donald Trump Is Headed to the US-Mexico Border
Laredo, Texas isn't a typical stop on the presidential campaign trail. Unless you are Donald Trump. The town on the U.S.-Mexico border will become the center of attention Thursday when the Republican presidential candidate stops by for a visit.