Politics

[Crazed_Insanity]

Of course he does! That's why he's trying to piggy back off of Dave's act, but too bad he failed pretty badly! :p

I think Elon had done away with free speech of tracking his position because there's a real live incident of close call attack to his son. Dunno, or perhaps he made up an attack to justify the ban?
https://www.thestreet.com/technology/elon-musk-launches-a-manhunt-after-alarming-incident?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

Anyway, SBF is pretty amazing. The guy doesn't seem to know he has the right to remain silent? But it's kinda cool to know that he doesn't just try to buy dems, he just didn't want to publicly buy GOP politicians because he's afraid of liberal reporter backlash. So all of the GOP donations are 'dark'. What ever the F that means. Main take away I got was that campaign contribution/finance laws are easily circumvented by the rich.

https://time.com/6241262/sam-bankman-fried-political-donations/

At least I haven't seen reports of Bernie Sanders getting any money. But maybe that's just because nobody likes him and he couldn't help FTX that much anyways. :p

[Dicknose]

You being a cunt has everything to do with you, ... being a cunt.
Ok I think that's going to be my go to quote for the next month or so. Just in time for xmas cunts!

[Tom Servo]

I saw it characterized as "the blue wedding", Elon's been mass banning journalists, including Donie O'Sullivan of CNN and Aaron Rupar, from Twitter. Rupar says he has been given no reason why his account has been banned.

I guess I'll say this: If you ever believed that Musk was all about free speech absolutism, you are a delusional rube.

[Rare White Ape]

Well it seems it has gone a few steps beyond what I thought he would do. The first few weeks of the train wreck were basically all within my expectations.

The anomalous actions are becoming more frequent.

[Tom Servo]

Definitely. I expected all of this to happen, but not at this rate.

[Tom Servo]

I'm sure it won't be a surprise to all but one of us, but Elon is a whiny crybaby: https://twitter.com/ForeverEversley/status/1603612770892918784

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think it should be clear pretty early on that Elon's not really a free speech absolutist. I'm still not sure why he continued to venture right-ward. I can understand Tesla needs workers at factory so he doesn't like lockdowns... I can see CA is choked by regulations that he has to open new factories in Texas... I can understand why he's pissed at Biden for pretending Tesla doesn't exist, but yeah, banning the left and giving amnesties to the right really makes no sense to me.

Anyway, hopefully time will give us more clarity. For now, I'm not going to let these things warped my views to see Teslas as lousy cars and SpaceX has lousy rockets.

[neanderthal]

He also sold another $20 billion (don't quote me on the number) shares in Tesla, further diluting the stock. (There's some much louder calls for his ouster as CEO of Tesla now.) I think it's because his pet project Twitter is hemorrhaging cash, what with them having fired so many people improperly, having to install beds/ sleeping spaces at headquarters, and having not paid rent, etc etc etc.


Fanboys still think he's a genius.

[Tom Servo]

The most impressive thing about him is how quickly he's cratering Twitter. He 100% ditched his "free speech" stance and is going full Kenji.

[Drachen596]

His trying to claim an attack on his car and kid is somehow the fault of a twitter account tracking his plane is some made up bullshit. No reports to LA PD about it.

The information for his plane is fully available to the public through multiple tracking sites.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ha! Actually his hardcoreness does kinda remind me of kenji! :D

It’s his forum and his twitter, he can do whatever he wants.

We are ahead of time…

Even without kenji, different politics eventually drive gtxfers apart…

[Rare White Ape]

Twitter has banned an account for rival platform Mastodon.

[Yw-slayer]

Wow, who would have thought he was basically like Billi's Brainwashed Bros, but with more money!

[Crazed_Insanity]

I have to vehemently deny that I'm like any of Trump and his MAGA supporters..., but except for the fact that I have way less money and for sure not as smart, Elon's personality is probably kinda similar to mine.

There are obviously some sort of misunderstanding going on, but since patience is wearing thin or perhaps no longer exists, a lot of folks would want to put Elon on ignore too. Sadly, it appears Elon's starting to put people on ignore as well. Banning journalists and leaving the meeting without resolving anything or even an announcement is not good.

I sincerely hope Elon has not lost his mind like Howard Hughes.

[2ndMoparMan]

The most impressive thing about him is how quickly he's cratering Twitter. He 100% ditched his "free speech" stance and is going full Kenji.

Wow. That's a reference I didn't expect.

[Tom Servo]

Gotta be hardcore.

[sandydandy]

Trump’s NFT playing cards. It was quite pathetic to watch that this week. His desperation reminded me of Al Bundy as Dr. Shoe. “I’m starving, please give me money!”

[Tom Servo]

Very much so. The saddest display.

[2ndMoparMan]

Great money laundering scheme. Sold for 99 bucks, but you can only buy 100 per household. Tizzy does a good job explaining it here.
https://twitter.com/TizzyEnt/status/1603834418333876233

Basically he doesn't have to report these on taxes as they are under the 10k bank limit. However, that's structuring and that's the same thing that put the lovely Kent Hovind behind bars.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This scheme is way smaller than FTX though, still, it’s pretty pathetic. I really cannot believe we still cannot legally find a way to put him away for good yet. Is he really that good?

[neanderthal]

So people who were banned from twitter were somehow not banned from something called "twitter spaces." A few journalists were in such a space and in enters Elon, who then gets asked a few hard questions that he can't/ won't answer. He promptly disappears from said space, and then next thing, spaces are no longer a thing at twitter.

He's such an idiot.

Could Russia have something on him? What would cause a normal human being to "suddenly" act like this. Do they have pics of him with doing naughty things with children? We suspect <cough> know <cough> Trump had proclivities that were recorded (golden showers?)

[Crazed_Insanity]

What happened to Howard Hughes?

What happened to Elon Musk?

Can we speculate with some conspiracies since it should be okay to do this on right wing nutcases? It’s only unacceptable to do conspiracies on the left, right? ;)

Anyway, time will always tell… hopefully Musk won’t be the next Hughes…

[HondaKid86]

Even without kenji, different politics eventually drive gtxfers apart…

You know, the solid good dude Roofer used to be imparted the lessons that eventually signaled we had to part ways.

He taught me a blue collar dude could and should be tolerant, generous and non-judgmental. He clearly and completely lost the plot a good while before we could even blame Trumpism. And you can't keep toxic people around just because of nostalgia.

You have to draw your lines, man. The left's willingness to defer, compromise, excuse and tamp down is exactly why we're in today's situation: when the bullies are out of control and have all but won.

They should have been held accountable in much earlier stages and shamed as pariahs. Mercilessly.

Muslim ban.

Mocking the disabled.

Villainizing Spanish speakers.

We should have collectively, decisively and vocally cut them off before the cancerous ideology became terminal.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Sorry to disagree. Not just for nostalgic reasons.

I really believe in regard to politics, religions and sex, we need to come together and come up with win-win scenarios for both sides. It shouldn't be an all out battle or shutting them out completely.

Don't mean to leave out LGBTQ... but humanity composed of primarily male and female. It shouldn't be just about the battle of sexes... to oppress the other gender, but should be about creating a world where both could thrive. Same with left/right and faith/no faith. Pro-life/pro-choice, lockdown/freedom...

Our world should not be one sided.

I'm not really a trump supporter, but I can still see some benefits of having Trump though. Mainly that NATO would probably be disbanded and we would not have Russia invading Ukraine... and Europeans probably won't have any problem getting cheap natural gas and we might also have cheap gasoline. Now that we have Biden... supposedly we should have a better world than under Trump..., yet, our world is as nationalistic as ever. US also now has became more protectionist which is causing grief with our European allies... I dunno. Maybe that's Putin's plot all along. One way or another, he's probably determined to break up the western world?

Anyway, point is, neither party's perfect. IMHO, cancerous ideology is the kind that'd only go in a single direction all the way. It might be fine to turn left all the time in an oval race, but in real life, society has to go forward, which requires direction change some times... if possible we should aim for win win. Unfortunately, we've been trained or forced to often pick between 2 lose lose scenarios.

[Rare White Ape]

We should have collectively, decisively and vocally cut them off before the cancerous ideology became terminal.

That's why people who I massively respect, such as Rob and yourself, don't post here much any more, or none at all in Rob's case. Nigel and Chris... maybe they had family reasons to not spend as much time online, but I think their absence on the forum would have something to do with this as well. Maybe they were sick of the shit. You guys did the cutting-off thing a long time ago. No rope given to idiots.

This place is much weaker without them, all because of one or two people.

I stay on, but I know... I know.

[HondaKid86]

I just skipped that entire contrarian novel.

Nah.

But, RWA, I can echo your respect for Rob and Nigel. Nigel and I have clinked glasses a few times since Trumpism surfaced, and once had a particular conversation I look back on as cathartic. The guy just knows what to say. He's reflexively good. And it's so important to remember that there are still good people out there.

I quit my best friend after the election because there isn't any room for hemming and hawing about acceptable levels of bigotry. I've mentioned before, this is no longer "politics". It's *decency*. And an unfortunate number of people who taught me about that decency through their actions eventually fell short.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Everyone will inevitably fall short… because we’re human.

Perhaps the only way to not fall short is to set the bar really really low? But what’s the point for that though…

Lastly, this place is obviously more left than anything else. Who in there politically ‘right’ minds are still here? I don’t know of anybody. Maybe George? I think I remembered a while back in a poll George voted for Bush? ;) However I think he has since been more left leaning thanks to trump?

Anyway, decent human being should be more balanced in a more bipartisan way. There’s no question that Christian white males had been oppressing and terrorizing the world with their warped ideology and we now have a push back. If one truly believes it is perfectly fine to oppress them Christian white males back because they deserve to get what their ancestors did, to me that’s another twisted ideology. Healthier ideology is one that will help everyone thrive… not one that thrives while stepping on somebody else.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://apple.news/AdtSU1QhtSx2JaZ_Vd7_zGA

Elon polled on Twitter whether to unbanned those journalists he banned…

I think most people clearly want them journalists unbanned!

Will the chief twit listen to the will of the people or will he continue to be hardcore like kenji? This is a critical juncture I think… if after all those boos in. Dave’s show and after the results of his own polls, he’s still being so hardcore and refuse to listen, then I think we can prepare to see Elon fall like late Howard Hughes…

We can probably also kiss colonizing mars goodbye. Wonder if there’ll be strong enough leaders left in tesla and SpaceX to continue their work…

[edit]whew, I guess Elon is not as far gone as Howard…

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ikrd/elon-musk-reinstates-twitter-accounts-journalists

[sandydandy]

That's why people who I massively respect, such as Rob and yourself, don't post here much any more, or none at all in Rob's case. Nigel and Chris... maybe they had family reasons to not spend as much time online, but I think their absence on the forum would have something to do with this as well. Maybe they were sick of the shit. You guys did the cutting-off thing a long time ago. No rope given to idiots.

This place is much weaker without them, all because of one or two people.

I stay on, but I know... I know. I don't know about Nigel and Chris, but I believe Rob left specifically because he was sick of LHutton.

I chat with him every now and then, and even told him Hutton isn't around anymore, but he still doesn't want to come back. It's his choice. He's a headstrong guy, and if he doesn't see value in spending time here then it's all good. I still think he's a stand up guy and hope to meet him again in person one day.


this is no longer "politics". It's *decency* Definitely. The more I think about it, the more I believe that the whole left/right spectrum shit is outdated now. It's about decent versus indecent now. We hear talk about the left and right being two wings of the same bird, but the extremists that have infiltrated (especially the right) don't represent any wing, but rather the exit hole of the bird.

[Crazed_Insanity]

At least from Jungian psychological point of view, the more we suppress our shadow, the part of us that we are ashamed of or deemed to be indecent…, the more it might bounce back and haunt you.

Classical example of that would be a preacher preaching against homosexuality constantly as if Bible only talks about homosexuality and then he’s eventually caught with male prostitutes!

Anyway, decency really should be apolitical. Pretty sure indecent people can be found in all political parties.

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/18/opinion/capitol-police-riot.html

Wow, given this opinion piece about how bad a Capitol Police officer felt about the riots he experienced, no doubt I can soon expect Billi's Brainwashed Bros to chime in about how bad they felt going to war every weekend against police, civilians, and businesses with minority shareholders who didn't agree with them in 2019. And for the NYT to publish a similar opinion piece but from an HK police officer!

Oh wait, who am I kidding. After all, western msm that has produced Billi and his Brainwashed bros and Ted Cruz even flew over to spout rubbish like the lying cunt he is. Lolololol

[Crazed_Insanity]

YW, continuing on using decency, I think it should be clear that not all cops are indecent and not all protesters are decent.

The thing with China is that the nationalist who wants to make China great again has already attained dictatorial power. At least in America, Trump failed. America has fortunately dodged a bullet this time. Sincerely hope Xi won’t make the same mistakes as another nationalistic dictator called Putin.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1604617643973124097?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1604617643973124097%7Ctwgr% 5Ef9b32857a1dda94cdcc4fcd6c6948e16c3830965%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Ftechnology %2Ftwitter-will-remove-accounts-created-solely-promote-other-social-platforms-2022-12-18%2F

Results are in! People have spoken! Elon to step down! Wonder how this will go down..., hopefully all the crazyiness will be over soon.

[2ndMoparMan]

Well. Criminal referrals for the cheeto and a few others, which will do exactly SFA.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m a bit confused, what was DOJ doing earlier? This referral is necessary to do actual criminal investigations? Without this referral, nobody could touch an ex president?

To me, we’ve seen to jumped thru many unprecedented hoops, yet, every single time we can only nail his associates and his organization… are we absolutely sure now that we can legally nail him this time? Or are there still many other hoops Trump could hide behind?

I can totally understand impeaching a sitting president can get very political, but can't the Justice Dept just deliver 'justice' without the need to involve a 'referral' from congress, a pretty politically fractured/ messed up organization? This is an ex-president we're talking about. It's time Congress should focus on the work at hand rather than investigating the past?

I think this is the problem with US now. We don't feel justice is being served. Blacks don't trust cops and white nationalists don't trust liberal politicians. Our courts are also compromised by politics...

I really hope our laws will get modified to make investigating a possibly criminal president much easier.

[Tom Servo]

Lol

https://i.imgur.com/BQ5CuJQ.jpg

[neanderthal]

So, is TFG as broke as i've always said he was? I haven't bothered to dig into his taxes or read anything about it. All I know is that he paid zero taxes in 2020

[George]

Of course he's broke. He probably always has been and got by with his talent for self-promotion, not paying his debts, and throwing anyone and everyone under the bus at every opportunity to keep himself afloat for one more day.

In less important news, the amount of blue fabric showing under that guy's left elbow suggests he's wearing two jackets instead of a two-color one. They must have taped down most of it in back to get that smooth collar line but didn't notice that little bit sticking out.

I don't know who he is or what statement is being made there and I do not care. The extra fabric just happened to catch my eye.

[Tom Servo]

I mostly liked the joke

[21Kid]

You know, the solid good dude Roofer used to be imparted the lessons that eventually signaled we had to part ways.

He taught me a blue collar dude could and should be tolerant, generous and non-judgmental. He clearly and completely lost the plot a good while before we could even blame Trumpism. And you can't keep toxic people around just because of nostalgia.

You have to draw your lines, man. The left's willingness to defer, compromise, excuse and tamp down is exactly why we're in today's situation: when the bullies are out of control and have all but won.

They should have been held accountable in much earlier stages and shamed as pariahs. Mercilessly.

Muslim ban.

Mocking the disabled.

Villainizing Spanish speakers.

We should have collectively, decisively and vocally cut them off before the cancerous ideology became terminal.Indeed. And you barely mentioned the 100s of deplorable things they have said/done.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Glad to hear Elon is stepping down. I think he has caused way too many distractions than good so far. Most don’t really care about the Twitter files, most prefer the status quo. Similar to Jordan Peterson, most don’t care what he has to say because whatever he said is disagreeable. It’s better to just laugh at them at whatever chance we get. Plenty of people dress weird. I don’t like them all, but I don’t feel the need to laugh at their weirdness.

Anyway, I’m 0 years old when I learned from folks on the right they think Nazis are liberals… because they’re called National Socialists! The kind of dictatorship with government working closely with corporations to make their nation great again.

I think this is pretty much what’s going on in Russia and China, but they think US are Nazis.

Whatever you think Nazis are, for sure US has all of them. We are at least diverse! ;)

Fortunately we don’t have a dictator yet. However it’s kinda scary how easily could companies like theranos and FTX influence our government to scam people…

At least Elon isn’t the type to lobby government and defraud customers. It’s those type of rich people that I hate the most.

[neanderthal]

The entire profit from the last quarter at Tesla, was equal to the amount of green credits Tesla sold. Where do you think they get the credits from?

You are wilfully and deliberately obtuse.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The entire cap and trade thing was lobbied and pushed by Elon paving the way for Tesla to make huge profits?

I think without these credits, Tesla would’ve went under long ago.

This is a system climate activists have setup and Tesla took full advantage of. I don’t think Tesla is defrauding anyone here.

[Rare White Ape]

https://scontent.fbne8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/321391407_1113445845997008_8856164516489570758_n.j pg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=oIFi1oznaOIAX_JEUZK&_nc_ht=scontent.fbne8-1.fna&oh=00_AfBvE-_x7-uUibJGT5cvj6KALKIbJqiZl8fDGdV96URPBg&oe=63AA6E1E

[Tom Servo]

Heh, nice.

There is one thing I'm impressed with when it comes to him though. Even with the onslaught of Ye and Nick Fuentes, he's managed to keep himself as Twitter's main character for almost every single day of the past two months.

[JoshInKC]

Yeah, it's an old joke but that guy paid $44 billion to get publicly owned every day.

[dodint]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqKp656tZ34

[MR2 Fan]

Seeing a lot more bi-partisan support of bills recently in congress since the election...are some GOP members actually realizing they can't do this obstruction stuff and still get votes in elections?

[Drachen596]

The Maga ship is starting to take on water and sink.

That's the only reason.

[21Kid]

They know that they won't be able to get anything done when Republicans are in charge of the House.

[neanderthal]

They know that they won't be able to get anything done when Republicans are in charge of the House.

They've had no platform since President Obama except obstruction. When they had power they did jack shit. Lowered taxes for billionaires and corporations, but, that's it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It’s good to have bipartisanship, but even if we get rid of tea party and MAGA folks, it’s still difficult to believe GOP isn’t full of crap sometimes…

To both side the issue again, I don’t see a clear platform from the dems either. Biden only won because Trump really messed up with pandemic! Does Biden really have what it takes to lead the dems to a next level? I’d also like to see dems stop catering to the rich. I know money is the milk of politics, but it just doesn’t look good!

Anyway, I’m really losing faith of our legal system though. Forget about the Supreme Court, I don’t understand how SBF could walked out of that $250 million bail without paying a single dime! So what’s the point of assessing such historically gigantic bail? Just to make a great show for us? If you’re rich and well connected, you’ll just have different treatment. Elon Musk is taking on more heat than this criminal. Also, FTX has already broken lots of existing laws and SEC has allowed them to get away with things… why existing laws are not enforced, what’s the point of trying to come up with new laws to regulate crypto? Same with FAA wasn’t able to regulate Boeing… money is likely the culprit. Only when shit hits the fan, then they all put up a great show for us to see… and distract us using Elon Sucks…

US government is truly bipartisanly fucked up! Don’t worry YW, CCP is more fucked! :p

Don’t get me wrong, I do want both nations to be better, but those in power just need to do a better job…. 1st by fighting their own corruption!

[neanderthal]

Maybe, i'm just spit balling here, maybe ... learn to fucking read. (https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Don’t get me wrong, words are beautifully written, but I’d also like to see actions taken as well. Often times we can just easily blame that things couldn’t be done because of the minority GOP though.

Yeah, dems are better for sure… at least better than GOP, who’d also refuse to act and would rather pretend that they’re thinking and praying or flying to Mexico rather than do their job.

Bottom line is that I believe politicians inactions are all thanks to the money they got from the rich lobbyists. Of course they won’t always listen to the rich like Elon Sucks, but that’s probably because their ‘sponsors’ don’t like Elon Sucks.

Biden is definitely better than Trump. No question there. However, Trump is a really really low bar to measure against.

Like I was telling you, from Boeing to FTX, our government just doesn’t know how to protect the commoners from harm. It’s a bipartisan failure. One can understand GOP is big corporations friendly, but what happened to the dems? Can they really take their money and be able to regulate them properly?

[neanderthal]

It’s good to have bipartisanship, but even if we get rid of tea party and MAGA folks, it’s still difficult to believe GOP isn’t full of crap sometimes…

To both side the issue again, I don’t see a clear platform from the dems either. Biden only won because Trump really messed up with pandemic! Does Biden really have what it takes to lead the dems to a next level? I’d also like to see dems stop catering to the rich. I know money is the milk of politics, but it just doesn’t look good!

Anyway, I’m really losing faith of our legal system though. Forget about the Supreme Court, I don’t understand how SBF could walked out of that $250 million bail without paying a single dime! So what’s the point of assessing such historically gigantic bail? Just to make a great show for us? If you’re rich and well connected, you’ll just have different treatment. Elon Musk is taking on more heat than this criminal. Also, FTX has already broken lots of existing laws and SEC has allowed them to get away with things… why existing laws are not enforced, what’s the point of trying to come up with new laws to regulate crypto? Same with FAA wasn’t able to regulate Boeing… money is likely the culprit. Only when shit hits the fan, then they all put up a great show for us to see… and distract us using Elon Sucks…

US government is truly bipartisanly fucked up! Don’t worry YW, CCP is more fucked! :p

Don’t get me wrong, I do want both nations to be better, but those in power just need to do a better job…. 1st by fighting their own corruption!

Maybe I can't fucking read, because you said you didn't see a clear platform from Democrats, which I posted a link to, then you ... tried to change the subject of what you said. Again.

It's almost 20fucking 23 for fuxxsakes. (https://democrats.org/who-we-are/what-we-do/disinfo/legislation/[/url) Someone have a calendar? We are close to new year, right? Meaning the internet and it's usage, well, one year older. Meaning, we should be familiar with simple things, like how to search.

You seem to think being contrarian is being smart. Yet you seem to prove, over and over again, that you're not really contrarian. (You're just an enabler and apologist for the worst among sycophants in society.) Or smart.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It matters not how smart or stupid I am. What truly matters is what those politicians are doing in DC.

Also, I fail to see how I’m enabling anyone other than the American people by wanting them to minimize receiving money from rich lobbyists.

I think you just don’t want to see how ineffective dems have been so far. So it’s just easier to blame all the problems we have in GOP and Billi.

[MR2 Fan]

Mike Pence is now running for President :lol:

[FaultyMario]

I'd rather have him than one of the protofacist varieties out in the wild right now.

[2ndMoparMan]

None of em are any good. Pence has tried to get creationism in schools, so auto no for me.

[Tom Servo]

Was out in Prescott, AZ for Christmas. Prescott is in Yavapai county which went pretty hard right. It's where Ron Watkins did all his campaigning, despite the fact that it was not the district he was running in.

I was pleased to not see the usual bunch of Trump trucks with a few flat-earther ones driving around town. However, right as we were leaving town to come back to LA, saw this dude coming out of the neighborhood my in-laws live in.

https://i.imgur.com/A5Hkfjt.jpg

It's not often you see someone advertising that they're literally a neo-nazi with their decorative front license plate, but I guess that's rural AZ/Paul Gosar territory for you.

[HondaKid86]

Holy shit, Brian.

You see?

It's not "politics". That's straight-up hate speech with dangerous consequences. And it's why I often feel unsafe on my travel assignments.

[Tom Servo]

I get it. I felt nervous enough being a CIS white heterosexual male with Nordic ancestry knowing this guy was nearby, I can't even imagine how it is for someone who doesn't check off all of this asshole's boxes.

I guess I've seen overt Nazi stuff on some motorcycle gang types (generally SS logos or Totenkopf's) but this felt more unnerving to me than seeing some of the Mongols tooling around in Riverside.

[JoshInKC]

That's interesting- I feel the same way re: bikers and nazi imagery.
Maybe because they've been running that symbology for like 60 years, I just read it as 'another outlaw biker thing'. I find it vastly weirder and disturbing when it's a pick up or whatever, probably because the bikers are using them as a statement that they are choosing to be outside society, while on pickups it's 'I'm a contractor who is a nazi that loves trump and hates minorities'.
In retrospect, I should've taken the bikers more seriously as normalizing that shit.

[Rare White Ape]

Methinks that Adolf might have had better chances if he was born 70 years later. Politicians would just invite his party in and lay down the red carpet.

Oh wait, they did do that and it led to WWII haha nevermind.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, I think you're on to something, Josh. It's like, with a bunch of bikers, I figure they're mostly concerned with criming each other. It's pretty easy to not get involved with that. On the other hand, this guy could have been at the bar we went to full of MAGA types and could get set off by anything.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Historically, given that US has crushed its own South and crushed Nazis, I’m sort of confident today, we probably do not have more White supremacists than before. (I do believe white folks are becoming a minority in this country…)

Personally, I’m okay with them doing their ‘white’ pride parade as long as they don’t start hurting others like before. However, heritage Nazi symbols really shouldn’t be protected under free speech though.

I have seen trump supporters with their big trucks waving ‘fuck Biden’ flags around my new purple neighborhood, fortunately, I don’t think I have seen any Nazi symbols so far… however, that flag was sufficiently uncomfortable, but I can respect their right to free speech. Just wish it could be cleaner speech so my daughter didn’t have to see that.

[FaultyMario]

Fuck.

Fuck Nazis. Fuck fascists.

Do not give them one inch (https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/11/27/multimedia/27mexico-protests-01-1-8bf9-esp-1/27mexico-protests-01-1-8bf9-superJumbo.jpg).

[FaultyMario]

None of em are any good.

"The choice before human beings, is not, as a rule, between good and evil but between two evils."

George Orwell, in 1941.

[Rare White Ape]

Fuck.

Fuck Nazis. Fuck fascists.

Do not give them one inch (https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/11/27/multimedia/27mexico-protests-01-1-8bf9-esp-1/27mexico-protests-01-1-8bf9-superJumbo.jpg).

If a crumb of context could be sprinkled here it would be nice.

[Tom Servo]

If a crumb of context could be sprinkled here it would be nice.

The truck I posted had "1488" as its license plate. That's a nazi dogwhistle.

The 14 is the "14 words": "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children." 88 refers to 'H' as the eighth letter of the alphabet, and is "HH" for "Heil Hitler"

[Crazed_Insanity]

"The choice before human beings, is not, as a rule, between good and evil but between two evils."

George Orwell, in 1941.

That is true. What saddens me is that people often end up defending their ‘lesser evil’ against the other evil as if it’s ‘good’.

Since we’re quoting Orwell,

“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.”
— George Orwell

I’d like to think that I’m speaking the truth, but often times I cannot even prove it to myself that I’m speaking the truth. I can perhaps only feel it… perhaps this is why both sides think that I’m contrarian. Or perhaps I’m just very annoying. :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

The truck I posted had "1488" as its license plate. That's a nazi dogwhistle.

The 14 is the "14 words": "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children." 88 refers to 'H' as the eighth letter of the alphabet, and is "HH" for "Heil Hitler"

Nazism and Nazi symbols aside, I think it’s really quite understandable why some white folks might be a bit concerned as white people are becoming minorities in some US states/cities… also, they are the only ones in the world forbidden to to have their own pride parades. Lots of their heritage symbols also end up as symbols of hate! For sure the rich well off white folks have not much to worry about, but if you’re poor white male, then you might feel marginalized and nobody gives a damn about you.

I’m not a Nazi sympathizer, but I can sympathize with the marginalized. Jordan Peterson is some one who’d speak to them and encourage them to help them stand up on their feet and not to feel discouraged. But then the left would often seen Peterson as a hateful Nazi sympathizer... Poor white males are people too. Just because they’re white, doesn’t mean they cannot be marginalized.

Anyway, hate begets hate. The South and Nazis sowed their hateful seeds and white folks are now reaping what their ancestors sowed… we definitely need to change the world to stop slavery and stop hate. Just want to caution people that if we fight hate with more hate, we’d only be sowing more problems for our future generations.

Remember, back then, Germany was heavily sanctioned and asked to pay large reparations and it was such conditions that gave Hitler the chance to gain popularity…

As for US, I often wonder perhaps Lincoln should let those southern states go in order to form a more perfect Union. It’s obvious our union isn’t near perfection at all. Point is that although use of force freed the slaves but didn’t really solve the root issue. Those southern states needed to learn to free the slaves themselves…

[Tom Servo]

Hah, I stupidly ignored my rule to ignore Billi and he's immediately sympathizing with Nazis again. I mean, sure, he said he's not doing that, immediately after doing exactly that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

There’s a difference between sympathizing with Nazi/white supremacists vs sympathizing with poor white males.

The original Nazis came to full force because we actively tried to suppress it tried to make them pay… that didn’t work, right?

Just because they were indecent, doesn’t mean we need to treat them the same.

There’s a reason why Jesus preached love thy enemy. Master Yoda said ‘ Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.’

So I don’t fear those white people nor do I believe they’re better than me.

[2ndMoparMan]

Fuck.

Fuck Nazis. Fuck fascists.

Do not give them one inch (https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/11/27/multimedia/27mexico-protests-01-1-8bf9-esp-1/27mexico-protests-01-1-8bf9-superJumbo.jpg).

Oh I'll give them a few inches....right up thier ass.

[Rare White Ape]

The truck I posted had "1488" as its license plate. That's a nazi dogwhistle.

The 14 is the "14 words": "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children." 88 refers to 'H' as the eighth letter of the alphabet, and is "HH" for "Heil Hitler"

Oh I’m aware of all that. It was Mario’s unexplained image that he linked to which I’m curious about.

[21Kid]

The truck I posted had "1488" as its license plate. That's a nazi dogwhistle.

The 14 is the "14 words": "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children." 88 refers to 'H' as the eighth letter of the alphabet, and is "HH" for "Heil Hitler"
I've never heard of that before. Yikes.


Hah, I stupidly ignored my rule to ignore Billi and he's immediately sympathizing with Nazis again. I mean, sure, he said he's not doing that, immediately after doing exactly that. I did that a few times. Never again.
I've skipped a lot of posts in this thread too, because they are responding to his nonsense.

[HondaKid86]

My understanding of Mexican politics is clearly lacking, because I never equated Morena with fascism.

Maybe mild nationalism - IMO, a useful opposing force to Trump when Trump was constantly attempting to humiliate Mexico on the world stage - but never the systemic bigotry and unsolvable schism we are seeing in the US.

I don't agree with a lot that Amlo has done - refusing to condemn Russia, his pet airport, that jungle train, his fake referendum that nobody voted in - but if he's the worst Mexico sees in our lifetime, we are lucky.

I heard Morena is splintering, too. It'll be interesting to see which personalities gain power in that party.

[neanderthal]

That is true. What saddens me is that people often end up defending their ‘lesser evil’ against the other evil as if it’s ‘good’.

Since we’re quoting Orwell,

“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.”
— George Orwell

I’d like to think that I’m speaking the truth, but often times I cannot even prove it to myself that I’m speaking the truth. I can perhaps only feel it… perhaps this is why both sides think that I’m contrarian. Or perhaps I’m just very annoying. :p

No no no no no. What you are speaking, most of the time, is what comes out of the arse of mammals.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Awesome! Glad to know that I’m a mammal! Yeah! :D

[FaultyMario]

If a crumb of context could be sprinkled here it would be nice.

On November 13 there was a march in Mexico City, during which an estimate between 40,000 and 100,000 people came out to protest. The alleged reason was to respond to a bill that the president had promised then to send to congress to reform our electoral system, so the march was branded as "The National Elections Board Won't Be Touched"*.

Because you may still be at a loss, here's some history. We latin american countries suffer from postcolonial problems. One of the most visible ones is the fact that POC are seldom allowed to be the face of anything of importance.

Latter-day Mexican Presidents
https://www.cintalapanecos.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/MODELO.jpg

Latter-day Colombian Presidents
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/06/07/opinion/07Colombo-ES/merlin_138461898_f22b9940-85b8-4621-9419-a1d646c146f9-superJumbo.jpg

Latter-day Peruvian presidents
https://libero.cronosmedia.glr.pe/original/2022/09/14/63222fd3dd4ed9264b10e2c2.jpg

As you can clearly see from the pictures (save for the recently coup'd Pedro Castillo of Perú), most of these men have the facial features of Europeans. Mediterraneans at the very least. That's because all throughout the region, for all of our independent history, we've been ruled by criollos, the descendants of Europeans, who may or not have the full control of our economies, but who have definitely been the guardians of the Status Quo.

And in safeguarding their interests, and those of their European and North American business partners, they've put in place a very effective system of dominance thru oppression. Thanks to it, we've oppressed indigenous identities and popular tastes; we've downgraded the music, literature, painting, speech and manual work of all of our people who don't look up to or can't look like Europeans. We've erased original languages by the hundreds. We've destroyed the internal normative structures and systems of governance put in place by the descendants of our first nations, mainly because it interferes with the criollo economic structures, but also because it defends the local communities against pillage from foreign actors.

But most importantly, this system of dominance has made us hate the Indio within us.

So, when there's something that merits the importance of TV punditry, we obviously go to the criollos for solace.

Take for example these fine Mexican men discussing how our democracy should work.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zIqVivEgsHQ/sddefault.jpg

Or this condescending Peruvian bitch making the smuggest of faces as she listens to a protestor from Pisco.

https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/1602475790054162432/pu/img/amFQRdtcYFlCqkM5.jpg

Point being, the second pink tide of latin american politics has given prominent positions to men and women from the margins of the visible society. And that has some of the criollos foaming at their mouths.

So, during the aforementioned march this lady here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVifmbY2QcE

Threw a tirade of racial epithets against the president, notably calling him a "cracked-heel indian from Macuspana", without any of the people around her disowning her sayings. As Adam has said, this is beyond elections, it has now turned as a struggle for decency.

And it is the same elsewhere in America Latina where any indication of leaning left by the government is met with claims of incompetency, low IQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg1u7iiN_M4), lack of class, communism or any other pointless shit in that same vein. Sometimes those smears are printed by major newspapers or told on-air by talking heads in national TV shows, but always as a dog-whistle.

The system of dominance is very effective.

But it sometimes leads to excesses. Like that woman berating the indianness of López Obrador. That is the one inch that we should never give to fascists.

The picture shown in the post you alluded to mick, is from the counter-protest. Two weeks later supporters for the president came out in record numbers. And contrary to the anger shown by the defenders of the criollo elitism, their march was one of festive recognition. I haven't seen a sitting president from a large country** come out and walk among the citizens for five hours without a security detail. And that, the egalité of our regimes, is the one inch we take from nationalists***.




____
* Funny that one, uh? Isn't THE principle of democracy that we solve our political problems with MORE democracy, and more democracy means that no human endeavor can't be kept untouched?

** 100 million plus inhabitants.

*** I, like George Orwell, am of the idea that nationalism -love for the place of birth- is inherently bad, and that patriotism -pride in the good of your neighbors- is the preferable alternative.

[FaultyMario]

I heard Morena is splintering, too. It'll be interesting to see which personalities gain power in that party.

Morena is full of TERFs. And unlike the other parties, at least they have feminists, right?

If you want a better explanation of Mexican politics, Kurt's your guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPflxdvp9oI), he contrasts the life he lives against the lives he knows.

[Rare White Ape]

Thanks for the rundown Mario. I had known that European colonial interests were a problem in Latin America but had no idea that it was that problematic. I thought it was mostly foreign companies exploiting weaker social and economic systems for minerals. The CIA installing friendly despots to ruin certain countries while resource hogging takes place. That sort of thing.

You describe a very deeply ingrained ethnic divide. This goes well beyond my previous understanding.

[HondaKid86]

On my most recent visit to CDMX, I met a Hot Wheels store owner who was awesome. We wound up going back to my hotel for a rooftop bar drink. He insisted that the only reason we got served is because I'm "white", and that the waiter took my order first for the same reason. 😳

I don't think that's the case — I'm just a strong communicator and make a lot of eye contact — but it was *wild* to be called "white". So often when I travel to a new worksite in the US, people can barely wait to blurt out "you're Spanish!"

(Yes. I'm a Spaniard. 🙄)

But what you're saying makes a lot of sense. Recently - within the last year - I've noticed that, *ahem*, on "dating" apps, in heavily Hispanic areas, obviously Hispanic dudes will call themselves white. ... WTF?

White supremacy is aspirational among Hispanic people, especially on the border. It's said that the most vehemently anti-Mexican folks are Norteños who made it across the border and now want to shut the door behind them. In South Texas, Hispanic Republicans seriously think voting for Trump will get them a seat at the table with overt racists. It's frustrating. But it's interesting to see that these issues are echoed down in Mexico. Wow.

So, my net take from your post with the counter protest photo is that there's a silver lining - that plenty of good folks marched to stand against the anti-indigenous sentiment? And that you have some respect for Amlo for marching with his constituents?

[George]

Thanks for the rundown Mario.

+1

Helluva lesson for those of us who are interested but not really paying attention. Thank you.

[Crazed_Insanity]

…

*** I, like George Orwell, am of the idea that nationalism -love for the place of birth- is inherently bad, and that patriotism -pride in the good of your neighbors- is the preferable alternative.

However I think in US, line between nationalism/patriotism has been blurred…

I do agree with Orwell though, still any kind of isms can become too extreme, even patriotism. If your birthplace really suck, there’s really no problem for wanting to make your country great again, but hopefully it’s not done at the expense of other nations/people.

Anyway, I wonder who meddles with these Central/South American nations more… Russians? Europeans? Or US?

[FaultyMario]

some respect for Amlo for marching with his constituents?

Imma let you finish, but Adam had one of the underest statements of the year.

Dude, that pic is epic. There was a lot of re-appropriation on that march. Think of half a million LGBT+ people marching and taking back all the faggots and dykes and making a party of it.

[HondaKid86]

Well, good! I thought I had remembered you being tepid on Amlo before.

No politician is perfect, but you and I have lived through an incredible time for Mexico: first the PRI lost the presidency, then a legitimate middle class explosion, then the emergence of a viable third party that you think is helping to counter anti-indigenous sentiment.

Unfortunately, I'm feeling under the weather at the moment, but I do have another personal story related to looking down on "indios" to share when I have more energy. Just know it's not just you guys down there. The same shit happens here.

[Rikadyn]

Remember "White - non-hispanic" is a common ethnic category for paper work in the United States.

Also simply the term Hispanic is derived from Hispania, or Spain which was/is considerably more white than the native population of the former Spanish colonies.

Of course you can then look at Moorish control of the Iberian peninsula and just get confused...

[Tom Servo]

When we had our city council kerfuffle out here, one of the notable things was the three city council people involved saying nasty things about the Oaxacan population, with Nury Martinez calling them "little short dark people."

[neanderthal]

I appreciate that lesson Mario. It dovetails neatly with my own observations (I played rugby with a lot of Argentinians, and I know several Chileans) I owe you a libation of your choice should we ever meet.

I also appreciate that you lot won't give the racists and fascists that one inch. (Except billi. He thinks he's being smart when he tries to justify aligning with them, but we know better.) Fuck all the racists and their apologists.

You guys are the best!!!

[sandydandy]

The truck I posted had "1488" as its license plate. That's a nazi dogwhistle.

The 14 is the "14 words": "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children." 88 refers to 'H' as the eighth letter of the alphabet, and is "HH" for "Heil Hitler" What confuses me is how a lot of these people love the military and even had grandparents who fought and died in WWII, something they take a lot of pride in. They went to fight Hitler and the Nazis, yet now they love Hitler and the Nazis?

It's all a gargantuan mind-fuck.

[FaultyMario]

When we had our city council kerfuffle out here, one of the notable things was the three city council people involved saying nasty things about the Oaxacan population, with Nury Martinez calling them "little short dark people."

The fuckers, without the Mixteco support, LA hispanic politicians are nothing.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I appreciate that lesson Mario. It dovetails neatly with my own observations (I played rugby with a lot of Argentinians, and I know several Chileans) I owe you a libation of your choice should we ever meet.

I also appreciate that you lot won't give the racists and fascists that one inch. (Except billi. He thinks he's being smart when he tries to justify aligning with them, but we know better.) Fuck all the racists and their apologists.

You guys are the best!!!

When Jesus said love thy enemy, it doesn’t really mean aligning with your enemies.

Racism happens everywhere and it’s a bipartisan thing! LA is not a conservative right wing city! Racism can happen there too! It’s not something exclusively for ‘nationalists’.

So who should we blame or get rid of in LA?

Racism is a problem that needs to be solved for sure, we have a lot to improve on, but reality is that racism isn’t just caused by Nazis in red states. Blue states can have racism as well! It’s also not about how many inches, it’s about treating one another with simple basic decency.

The strategy of since they’re indecent so we’ll be indecent back will not work.

[Crazed_Insanity]

What confuses me is how a lot of these people love the military and even had grandparents who fought and died in WWII, something they take a lot of pride in. They went to fight Hitler and the Nazis, yet now they love Hitler and the Nazis?

It's all a gargantuan mind-fuck.

US has a LOT of German immigrants. So it kinda make sense perhaps some Nazis made it to the states?

However, you’re right, I can’t see how Nazis could ever become mainstream here though.

[FaultyMario]

I'm sorry to break it to you billi, real sorry, but you're not commanding the eleventh when you line up with them.

"Love your brother as I've loved you", remember?

[Crazed_Insanity]

When have I lined up with nazis?

All poor white men are nazis? Poor white men can’t possibly be marginalized ever?

Any human being can be marginalized, even the son of God can be crucified. Racism is a problem but not all white Europeans are Nazis.

[Rare White Ape]

I'm sorry to break it to you billi, real sorry, but you're not commanding the eleventh when you line up with them.

"Love your brother as I've loved you", remember?

Yeah I think it's time we all agreed that the "love conquers all" thing is intellectually bereft and morally bankrupt.

The problem is they push so we push back, then they push harder so we push back harder.

We need to push harder than them to begin with, otherwise we risk another calamity. Bite 'em off at the neck, I say.

[JSGeneral]

I appreciate that lesson Mario. It dovetails neatly with my own observations (I played rugby with a lot of Argentinians, and I know several Chileans) I owe you a libation of your choice should we ever meet.

I also appreciate that you lot won't give the racists and fascists that one inch. (Except billi. He thinks he's being smart when he tries to justify aligning with them, but we know better.) Fuck all the racists and their apologists.

You guys are the best!!!


I wish to dovetail this thread back to thanking you Mario. I too, learned much from your post... much that I never recognized nor appreciated before. I'm grateful for your continued positions and experiences that you are willing to share with us throughout this entire board. Your posts exude knowledge, research, introspection, passion... and most importantly, decency.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah I think it's time we all agreed that the "love conquers all" thing is intellectually bereft and morally bankrupt.

The problem is they push so we push back, then they push harder so we push back harder.

We need to push harder than them to begin with, otherwise we risk another calamity. Bite 'em off at the neck, I say.

At which time in history, calamity was caused by people being too loving and too decent to one another? Based on what can you conclude doing such a thing is morally bankrupt?

It’s just not a natural thing for us to do. Naturally we want eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. Yet we never seemed to learn that never works. After WW2, Nazism is still around!!! In America of all places!!!

I’m not suggesting we completely give up and let discrimination go uncontrolled, but it’s important to learn to not discriminate against them as well. They make you want to round them up and shove them into the gas chamber too, right?

Forget Christianity, think of the way of the force in Star Wars. Is that the best way to deal with the dark side? Hatred is the most effective way to fix our problems?

I will just use Gandhi, an anti-colonial ‘nationalist’, as example just so that I won’t sound like a preachy ‘Christian’… and that love is not an exclusively a Christian thing…

He got the job done without the need to use hatred and force against his enemies. Of course his types typically end up crucified, but people always will remember him. I would not claim people like Gandhi as morally bankrupt.

I would agree love is intellectually bereft though. ;) Having intellect is nice, but I’m pretty sure hatred will cause people to lose their intellect as well. Humanity is more emotional than intellectual. In the heat of passion, do something loving rather than something hateful… of course, this is very very hard to do. We obviously don’t have very many Gandhi types around the world… and they typically get murdered too. Still, it is a realistic dream. These type of people do exist throughout history.

[Blerpa]

Gandhi was a racist, a pedophile and a misogynist, just so you know.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, as I highlighted, he’s a nationalist’ too! Wishing to make India great again!

Do you think real intellectuals would cancel Gandhi and put him in jail and allow British colonialism to continue? All Gandhi had done were all BS?

Dig deep enough, we can find dirt and create rumors on everyone… and then bury everyone with it. Is that really what intellectuals should do? Is that really morally superior?

[FaultyMario]

Your posts exude [...] decency.

Dude, that's what we're here for.

[sandydandy]

Gandhi was a racist, a pedophile and a misogynist, just so you know. Hey hey now that’s just Pakistani propaganda. We never saw any of that stuff in the movie. :P

[Rikadyn]

What confuses me is how a lot of these people love the military and even had grandparents who fought and died in WWII, something they take a lot of pride in. They went to fight Hitler and the Nazis, yet now they love Hitler and the Nazis?

It's all a gargantuan mind-fuck.

Mate, a good many Americans at the time of Hitler, supported Hitler. First name to come to mind is Henry Ford, and then members of the Bush family...

Oddly enough the Chumbawumba song "when the last nazi died" is one of my favorites

[Rikadyn]

Ghandi was the tool that the British empire used to prevent and delay things from going their way. He was hoisted to the pedestal because the rest of the leaders were less likely to listen to the brits.

It's the same thing with MLK being ostensibly white washed and used as propaganda today and why you only ever hear Malcom X or heaven forbid Huey Newton talked about positively outside of what will be called radical circles.

And everyone forgets Lucy Parsons

[Tom Servo]

Mate, a good many Americans at the time of Hitler, supported Hitler. First name to come to mind is Henry Ford, and then members of the Bush family...

Oddly enough the Chumbawumba song "when the last nazi died" is one of my favorites

There's a reasonably famous spot up above Santa Monica in what could be either considered the Pacific Palisades or Brentwood, I'm not sure which, here in the area. It's above Will Rogers State Park, one of the only polo courses in this neck of the woods. Up in there, in one of the canyons is a place called Murphy Ranch. These days it's a bunch of ruins covered in graffiti, back in the 60s and 70s it was a hippie artist commune, but back in the 30s it was where a bunch of Nazis in the area built a compound, ready to ride out the battle where Hitler conquered America, and it was from there that they would rule the southwestern US as part of the Third Reich. They had a small reservoir, grain towers, bunkers, the whole bit.

[Tom Servo]

The Andrew Tate/Greta Thunberg thing might be the single best finale to 2022 that I could have come up with.

[Crazed_Insanity]

America chose to forget a Muslim and a socialist/anarchistic communist is kinda understandable.

I purposely tried to steer clear from that… just as some would say Romans used Christianity as a tool to control people…

However, Roman Empire is long gone. Yet the ‘tool’ remained.

Back to Gandhi. People claimed that he’s a racist who believe white Europeans should rule over those dirty dark skin Africans. Yet, why is he being a hypocrite? Why shouldn’t British rule over the dark skin Indians at India? Somebody is making up stories or maybe Gandhi is not only racist but also mentally/psychologically not right?

Also, just like the Roman’s using Christianity, British using Gandhi to end its own colonialism? Makes perfect sense?

People can choose to believe whatever you want.

Feel free to cancel people like Gandhi, Dr. King or Jesus all you want…

Who else are morally superior and more effective at fighting against oppression?

Do you guys have examples of a hero who fought hard successfully against oppression without giving the oppressor an inch?

Anyway, terrorism is usually pretty effective when overthrowing a big empire. However, it’s just not a viable longterm solution. Terrorist leader won’t be able to hold a society together for very long because he won’t know how to build things back up.

[JoshInKC]

Yeah, I'm actually a little disappointed about that - The first I heard of his arrest was that it was "anti-terrorism" charges and I was in the like 3 second process of mentally composing a tweet like "They probably detected the leftover rads from when greta nuked him from orbit"

But other than that: 10/10, perfect twitter development.

Also, impressive that the tate douchebag managed to make himself the twitter main character when elon has been so aggressively defending his position as king of unforced errors.

[Tom Servo]

Every once in a while an own-goal is just so spectacular, we cannot look away. Having it be that overwrought of a response, so poorly developed after 12 hours to plan it, and the only real outcome to be outing yourself as being in the country you're wanted in. It feels like a better twist than anything in White Lotus.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The Andrew Tate/Greta Thunberg thing might be the single best finale to 2022 that I could have come up with.

Yeah, kinda difficult beat that small dick of his… :D

[FaultyMario]

The Andrew Tate/Greta Thunberg thing might be the single best finale to 2022 that I could have come up with.

Can we please call it "Pizzagate"?

[sandydandy]

The Andrew Tate/Greta Thunberg thing might be the single best finale to 2022 that I could have come up with. I just heard about it. Her response to him was savage with the email address.

I had never heard of Andrew Tate until maybe a couple of months ago when I started getting addicted to watching Instagram reels. He would show up in every third or fourth reel, and I would wonder to myself who this loudmouthed bald fucker was who sounds like a ten-year-old trapped in a man’s body. Some of the advice he gives could be motivational, I suppose, but he largely comes off as an annoying obnoxious prick.

Glad he’s been arrested. Hopefully the charges stick.

[Tom Servo]

Can we please call it "Pizzagate"?

#PizzaTate

[Rare White Ape]

Can we please call it "Pizzagate"?

Murder in aisle 3 :lol:

See???????

I TOLD you guys the whole Musk Twitter thing was comic genius from the man. He’s been playing an unfunny fool for so long but this might be a magnum opus of sorts.

Let’s the guy back on the platform, stands back while natural life plays out, laughter ensues.

[Rare White Ape]

Nothing left but a burnt crisp

https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1608735970131849217

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mate, a good many Americans at the time of Hitler, supported Hitler. First name to come to mind is Henry Ford, and then members of the Bush family...

I have heard of Henry Ford being antisemite before but, upon some googling, I had not realized Adolf was actually inspired by Henry Ford?!?!?!

Also, not just Ford… GM was also complicit… resisted converting US factories to war machines, but had no problems converting their German factories… however, was that because their executives were like Henry Ford or were they just thinking of money?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/nazicars30.htm

Anyway, knowing this now, should we cancel Ford cars like Tesla cars? Boycott Chevys? Only drive Chrysler/Jeep?

So it appears good chunk of US was a Nazi sympathizer? I’m still a bit shocked to learn adolf hitler has inspired Ford. :| We kinda erased that part of history and pretended as if we had nothing to do with the Nazis by eventually defeating them…

Fortunately, US doesn’t overtly invade the rest of the world… we only do that covertly. And we always make up ‘good’ reasons to invade other nations if we had to… :rolleyes:

Hopefully Elon Musk won’t inspire another crazy fascist… at least I’m not aware of any antisemite writings/tweets by Elon?

[MR2 Fan]

Greta's IDGAF attitude nowadays is great.

Edit: Might need to clarify, she's tired of people's crap, she still GAF about the environment :up:

[sandydandy]

Greta's IDGAF attitude nowadays is great.

Edit: Might need to clarify, she's tired of people's crap, she still GAF about the environment :up: What’s annoying are the overly sensitive folks accusing her of body shaming Tate with her comment. Like seriously, WTF??

I watched Tate’s video response to Greta’s response to him and it was quite pathetic. I couldn’t tell if he was deliberately acting macho to impress his juvenile devotees, or if he really believed that was her email address, and her mocking him went completely over his head. The funniest part was him talking about bots commenting on his Twitter. This from a guy who has an army of shills under his thumb from his Huckster University.

What a joke.

[MR2 Fan]

Greta's always struck a nerve with the people who IMO KNOW they might be hurting the environment or at least don't care but they have so much FREEDUMB they don't want to hear any hint of having to change their lifestyle to help others (See also COVID)

[HondaKid86]

Yeah, that. Had to unfollow someone today who went on an unhinged rant against Greta and EVs. It breaks my heart to see "enthusiasts" get conned, seeded with cheap and emotional anti-EV arguments from either YouTubers trying to stir profit-generating controversy or neocons pushing their workaday agenda that god wants us to ruin earth.

(Don't bother, Billi. I've finally muted you.)

Enthusiasts have a responsibility to be on the forefront of electrification, which is necessary and a done deal.

But when rolling coal owns the libs, the masses of the car hobby just hammer down.

[Tom Servo]

There is a small but vocal bunch who not only will not change anything to help contribute to the greater good, but will actively fight being a participant in civilization. As someone who generally has, for better or worse, based my personality around not being in step with everyone around me, I always wonder why I still feel like I should do my part and didn't end up with that bunch of dickheads. Michele grew up with a lot of the same type of people, she knew most of the folks in the glam metal scene in Hollywood back in the day, and they're almost all now Trump supporters and lunatics. I'm glad I didn't end up there, but I'm not sure how I avoided it.

That said, I still miss the sound of the F1 V-10s, and I know over time we're going more and more electric and I will miss those engine noises in other series too. Trying to remind myself to be glad that I was here for some of the best of it rather than be sad that it's gone.

[Cam]

I thought Greta's initial response was immature, but the eventual fallout was grade A prime rib. :lol:

[neanderthal]

That he had just been reinstated on Twitter by Elon Musty is just icing on the cake.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, that. Had to unfollow someone today who went on an unhinged rant against Greta and EVs. It breaks my heart to see "enthusiasts" get conned, seeded with cheap and emotional anti-EV arguments from either YouTubers trying to stir profit-generating controversy or neocons pushing their workaday agenda that god wants us to ruin earth.

(Don't bother, Billi. I've finally muted you.)

Enthusiasts have a responsibility to be on the forefront of electrification, which is necessary and a done deal.

But when rolling coal owns the libs, the masses of the car hobby just hammer down.

Its okay, it’s not a bother… :p

Anyway, I think Elon has proven that this really isn’t about just EVs or God, but a political game.

Seriously, would you approve of Tesla EVs now? Probably just like Biden admin, some liberals will now start to ignore Tesla EVs, right?

Silver lining is Elon can now perhaps win over some conservatives to drive EVs?

Politics aside, EVs are really great for errands and daily commutes, but not sure if we can totally rely on them during long hauls… especially when towing an RV! Fords new EV truck proved to be not very good at towing… I think my current best options are the X-5 or Grand Cherokee plug-in hybrid for the greenest kinda towing…

Anyway, when we achieve fusion, EVs will definitely be the future. However, for now, I just don’t think it’s a good idea to ban ICE cars… I do believe it’s good to subsidize EVs and encourage transition. However, outright bans will probably only end as badly as banning alcohol, drugs, and terrorism.

Lastly, most people don’t have the same luxury as Greta to be able to really ‘sail’ across the ocean. Don’t think we have trans-oceanic electric planes or rockets yet.

We should just do our best at protecting our planet and continue to develop cleaner cheaper alternatives to help people transition over rather than just counting on politicians to pass laws and regulations to save our planet.

[Rikadyn]

EVs are the inevitable result of turning cars into appliances.

[FaultyMario]

EVs are the inevitable result of turning cars into appliances.

eBikes are the the better type of EVs. A spec'd out Tern GSD would solve 85% of the problems my Accord can solve.

[Tom Servo]

Oh man, that's going to be my big push for my elected representatives. It infuriates me that you can get a tax rebate for buying an electric car but not an e-bike. In the meantime, my e-bike is nearly perfect for all my usual stuff - going to the grocery store, going out to eat, the kinds of things I'd normally drive my car to. It's got a big basket, I still get some exercise, I'm not stuck in/being traffic.

[Rikadyn]

Tbf I am more in the "a working public transit system would be a greater benefit than personal evs" camp.

As "appliance for point a to b" commuting evs are a good idea, at no point do I think that they will ever be truly an enthusiast market for them, outside of the current crop of people looking for a reason to be smug. At least not without laws in place that prevent locking the abilities of the car behind pay walls which we are already seeing with ice vehicles.

This is all before you look at problems with the power grids in the US let alone the world. Apartment livers are not exactly going to be able to convert to electric.

Simply think putting all the chips in the ev basket is stupid. We need Toyota and their hydrogen ideas, Porsche deve of their carbon neutral fuel that they are running in Carrera Cup this year.

I feel like I am beginning to rant here, so I am going to stop lol

[Tom Servo]

I can get behind the "working public transit" part, absolutely.

[JoshInKC]

Wow, out of curiosity I just looked up the Tern ebikes and am really impressed - I didn't have the slightest idea that ebikes were that capable.
They're not cheap, but the range and cargo capacity are kind of amazing compared to what I'd assumed.

[Crazed_Insanity]

By the time we have self driving Ubers, that’s be kinda like a public transit system. Pay per ride to go from A to B definitely won’t create any enthusiasts, but I’m sure in the future, there will still be enthusiasts into modifying and manually driving whatever vehicles of the future.

I also do agree our tax credit really shouldn’t be all in 1 basket, need to encourage other techs that might help us achieve the same goal. Biden also screwed up by allowing tax credit only to US battery cars… this kind of isolationist policy definitely won’t foster global cooperations anymore… I really think Biden screwed up that one.

As for e-bikes, hey, it’s not like regular bikes were polluting too much! So no credit for you! :p maybe they need to be renamed to e-motorcycles!

[Rare White Ape]

at no point do I think that they will ever be truly an enthusiast market for them, outside of the current crop of people looking for a reason to be smug.

Wait 'til the small 3-door electric hatchbacks become available. I am predicting an arms race between Korea, Japan, and Germany with cars that can eat a GR Yaris for breakfast, all for a low, low price.

Or an electric RWD MX-5? Yes please!

This will be on our plate within a decade, I imagine. Layouts are so flexible that front, rear, or AWD configurations are limited only by the spec sheet and $$$, not the packaging limitations for cargo and passengers. The only thing we will miss is the ability to change gears.

Club racing and auto-x will have it's time to work things out, too. I would say that scary predictions about limited battery life will be figured out in due course and the hot-up market will bloom in new ways.

[Yw-slayer]

Wow, out of curiosity I just looked up the Tern ebikes and am really impressed - I didn't have the slightest idea that ebikes were that capable.
They're not cheap, but the range and cargo capacity are kind of amazing compared to what I'd assumed.

Tern make good bikes. At least, my Tern folder is brilliant.

I haven't looked at the e-bike market as they are not legal to ride here other than on private land.

[Yw-slayer]

Anyway, shouldn't you guys get back to yelling abour how Republicans are evil while Billi tries to both sides something?

[Crazed_Insanity]

People are still recovering from their new year celebrations… give people sometime okay? What’s your hurry? Geez…

Happy 2023! :D

[HondaKid86]

Why were EVs politicized?

How did gratuitous pollution become a Republican value?

Why is caring for the environment solely the domain of Democrats — to be bullied for this "show of weakness"?

How could "American Patriots" like Rush Limbaugh kill the Chevy Volt - the single most important automotive advancement in energy storage technology this century?

Why in the fuck are we concerned with bipartisanship when these people will literally chug oil-saturated water if it'll own the libs?

[Rare White Ape]

Good questions, @HondaKid86... very good questions.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You know it’s now more political because some on the left no longer wish to even acknowledge Tesla. That started with the Biden admin. Of course Elon himself didn’t help either…

As for Chevy Volt, GM killed it. Most manufacturers figured plug-in hybrids are too complicated and costly so they figured they should just focus on pure EVs. After my Honda Clarity EV lease, I was hoping to buy the plug-in hybrid version, but Honda pulled the plug for the entire model. # of plug-in hybrids in the market are dwindling so pretty sure you’re giving Rush too much credit there.

Lastly, fighting climate change will probably require the other half of our population to buy in… just because some conservatives are acting stupid at times, doesn’t mean liberals need to act like-wise.

I’m pretty sure Elon did not invest in Tesla and start SpaceX just to make himself rich. There were so many failed ventures before him. If profit was his main motive, he could’ve invested and started something less risky… so I really believe he started those companies for the good of humanity.

So if you were him, how would you feel if CA stands in your way with anti-business culture/regulations? I suppose I would move to Texas too! Now, how would you feel if president of the US doesn’t even acknowledge your global leading EV company?

We are too busy fighting each other politically and probably have no more energy left to fight climate change. This is why bipartisanship is important.

[Rikadyn]

4009

[Crazed_Insanity]

Nothing more?

Wait! Here’s more!

Assuming scientists got the numbers perfectly right, which billionaire could they count on to donate $300 billion?

I can only remember Elon Musk donating billions to help UN solve world hunger.

https://fortune.com/2022/02/15/elon-musk-5-7-billion-donation-weeks-after-asking-un-world-hunger/ (btw, I think the world is still hungry)

But that fucking asshole is now a conservative!!!! So fuck his money! Whenever we have EV summits, let’s exclude and ignore that asshole too. It’s fucking good that he lost $200 billion of his fortune. Let’s fuck with him instead of work with him with regard to climate change. Nothing political here… :rolleyes:

Anyway, we don’t need Elon, we’ll just force the rich to pay up. Fuck working with any one of them! This is how Communist China does it. See how great they are now! The entire world should enforce that Covid 0 policy and lock everyone down at home. That way nobody can die of Covid. So what if they die of hunger or fire… freedom is over rated. Except when it comes to giving women freedom, that’s because babies have no life!

Politics has gone nuts I tell ya.

[neanderthal]

Why were EVs politicized?

How did gratuitous pollution become a Republican value?

Why is caring for the environment solely the domain of Democrats — to be bullied for this "show of weakness"?

How could "American Patriots" like Rush Limbaugh kill the Chevy Volt - the single most important automotive advancement in energy storage technology this century?

Why in the fuck are we concerned with bipartisanship when these people will literally chug oil-saturated water if it'll own the libs?

Because owning the libs ... <long pause> duh! is more important.

[HondaKid86]

But it's money, right? And decades of carefully crafting a narrative where, somehow, the blue collar worker is an emblem of the industrial conservative right, rather than the workers' rights progressive left.

And it's dogma. It's bully culture. Do bullies drive Priuses? No. Bullies roll coal. Bullies won control of America after 9/11 and the Iraq War. Bullies love the idea of sticking it to the helpless at any collective cost.

It's abandonment of facts and truth in this new age.

It's finding common ground with Nazis and terrorists for the sake of social lubricity.

[neanderthal]

So, insulin capped at $35 a month.

Did y'all peep the 4D chess dark Brandon is playing? If the pharmaceuticals cap the price for Medicaid and raise the price for anybody else *they get to pay a 1900% excise tax.*

But billi will tell you both parties are the same ...

[MR2 Fan]

So, insulin capped at $35 a month.

I believe only if you're on medicare/medicaid

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, both parties are okay with seniors and poor folks to have a cap of $35/month starting this year. This is why legislation went thru! Both parties are on the same page, no? :p

Of course this is better than nothing. However, need for insulin didn't all of a sudden rise this year. It's also super cheap for a long long time in other countries... at least cheaper than $35/mon. Even this cap for seniors and poor are NOT causing drug companies to lose money, just not stealing as much money...

It's kinda amazing dems would not make a big deal about this to make Republicans look bad. If somebody like Bernie Sanders were really in charge along with that fake tweet proclaiming insulin would be free, it probably would happen by now. Too bad we know that nobody likes him nor would anyone listen to him, not even the dems... oh well. :rolleyes: Also, rather than take the opportunity to crackdown on insulin pricing, we just need to focus on how horrible these fake tweets are... and how stupid Elon's verification plan failed to work... hahaha... :rolleyes:

However, now, while majority of diabetics still pay an arm and a leg for a relatively cheap medication, dem can now declare victory and job well done. Remember Bush did that? I just can't help but not cheer in situations like those.

If only dems would also investigate these drug companies as if they're investigating/impeaching donald trump, or GOP investigate drug companies as if theyr'e looking for Monica's dress, our healthcare might become a bit more affordable.

Again, I say again... and again, both parties are too political for me. Maybe not exactly the same, but neither are looking out for the average american people.

[dodint]

I have MAGA parents. The EV thing comes up a lot. Their resentment is rooted in the mandate towards EV. They don't care if you want to have shitty range and poor cold weather performance. They just don't want to be told that they are going to have to have one by 2040 (or whenever).

The irony, of course, is that they'll be dead by then.

[Crazed_Insanity]

But it's money, right? And decades of carefully crafting a narrative where, somehow, the blue collar worker is an emblem of the industrial conservative right, rather than the workers' rights progressive left.

And it's dogma. It's bully culture. Do bullies drive Priuses? No. Bullies roll coal. Bullies won control of America after 9/11 and the Iraq War. Bullies love the idea of sticking it to the helpless at any collective cost.

It's abandonment of facts and truth in this new age.

It's finding common ground with Nazis and terrorists for the sake of social lubricity.

Just to be fair, dems gave W full control after 9/11. We probably shouldn't blame all that on Republicans.

Also, as dodint said, conservatives can feel bullied too. With various government 'mandates'...

Regardless who are the real blue collar workers, shouldn't the blue party be representing them?

We shouldn't give an inch to neo-nazis, but we have no problems seeing US drug companies steal money from diabetics? Pretty sure blue collar workers do not have medicare/medicaid... so they'll be squeezed financially if they're diabetic.

In a financial squeeze like that, I wonder how they'll feel emotionally? When they become emotional, I wonder if they'll still care about facts and truth and reason and logic?

Yes, it is about money. Both parties are in it for the money and collectively worked to rip Americans off. They wouldn't fight to help average people live better lives... Insulin is just one thing that stresses average americans. Surely there are lots of other things stressing americans out as well. It's only going to get worse if we keep allowing money to corrupt DC.

Both parties are into fighting hard with their stupid political ideologies and not really fighting for practical things in life that needs attention. I think it should be clear how stupid GOP can be already, so I'm just going to pick on the dems again. Even dems act as if raising min wage to a living wage will bankrupt our economy. Providing affordable reasonably priced insulin to all who need this life save drug would also collapse our healthcare system. We need to pragmatic about this. Americans just have to learn to live with non-living wages and unafforadable medicine which is affordable everywhere else in the world. However, we shouldn't give neonazis an inch. Let's never ever tolerate that! Also, let's fight climate change, but please remember to NOT buy a Tesla okay? We don't need to drive a conservative EV to fight climate change... :rolleyes:

[JoshInKC]

That last post was somewhat less coherent than usual, but I would like to address the Tesla/US gov't thing that I think you've been referring to so much over the past month or so just because you keep bringing it up like it's some kind of proof or smoking gun of something:
The reason Tesla reps weren't invited to the white house is the fact that they are a decidedly and determinedly non-union shop. It's very simple - Biden, being a relatively old school Dem, is not going to throw a big automaker press conference with a guy who views industrial labor unions as one of the roots of all evil.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I've always been incoherent so what's new? :D

That was the explanation given by the WH, and it kinda made sense.

However, are unions really absolutely necessary? If a company can offer attractive enough pay and perks and treats its employees right, in theory, unions won't be necessary, right? Obviously a company could become so corrupted and start treating its employees badly... that's when unions can come in... furthermore, it's not as if union leaders can always be immune to evils... sometime they can become corrupted and start becoming buddy buddies with a company's sr. management and forget about its workers who they supposed to represent.

IMHO, I think the dem politicians are falling dangerously close to this... these rich democrats seems to have closer ties with the rich lobbyists, rather than the middle class that they're suppose to represent. This is why living min wage couldn't be done. This is why insulin cannot be affordable to all who need it even when it is freaking cheap to produce!

If I were Biden, I'd still invite Musk to attend this EV summit and perhaps try to convince him the benefits of unions. Help him see that UAW isn't evil. Or perhaps take the opportunity to scold at Elon a bit at where he's deficient... how he could treat his employees better and in return help him sell more cars...

If you want to call it an EV Summit, I think it's best to invite somebody who's sold a lot of EVs. Otherwise, why not be super clear? Call it the UAW EV Summit?

Lastly, Biden clearly gave GM CEO credit for leading the global electrification of the auto industry. However, do you really care about whether that statement is true or not? Clearly it's not just the conservatives who believe in alternate realities. Liberals can be perfectly okay with politicians not telling the truth.

Seriously, I ask you again, if you were Elon, how would you feel?

I think it's probably as hurtful as the Apollo astronauts telling him that SpaceX cannot succeed because we need the government to do this...

[neanderthal]

Jesus fucking Christ!!!!

How do you whine about corporations stealing from workers or whatever nonsense you are constantly spouting then ask <checks notes> "are unions necessary?"

The shit you type is worse than a three year old who has discovered he can just say random shit and he likes just saying random shit.

Do you think before you type or you just let the diarrhea come out through your fingers? You constantly display the intellect mankind had when rocks were new.

[Rare White Ape]

I’m in a union.

Just before Christmas my union helped get a new EBA agreement laid out for us healthcare workers.

The government had been dragging their feet on renewing the expired agreement from October. So the union threatened to join in the industrial action that other departments were already taking part in. The government rolled straight away.

We won a 4% pay increase, plus another 4% for next year, and 3% for the year after that. Plus a bonus payment if inflation stays above 7% for this financial year.

This wouldn’t have happened without our union.

[G'day Mate]

Meanwhile, in the House of Representatives ...

What do you think will happen? In fact, this might make a fun poll!

[Rare White Ape]

How do you whine about corporations stealing from workers or whatever nonsense you are constantly spouting then ask <checks notes> "are unions necessary?"

Am I guessing correctly that he's saying we should be able to trust employers to just do right to their employees? That's like saying we should be able to trust fossil fuel companies in doing the right thing when it comes to reducing greenhouse gas emissions and not needing government intervention.

Or trust a heroin addict near your apartment by not locking your door when you leave the house. Or any other ridiculous stereotypes that I can come up with on the spot.

It's a very, uhh.... Libertarian worldview.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You’re guessing incorrectly.

My employer doesn’t have any unions in SoCal, but it’s mandatory in Seattle. So I really don’t have much experience with unions. However, employees nation wide seems to all enjoy the benefits of having union while not paying union dues because my employer treats all of it's union and non-union employees equally. By moving to Seattle, I had no choice but to join union. I’ll consider it as paying my dues I guess. Still, if I’m unhappy with my employer, I think I could negotiate for myself or find work elsewhere. I particularly don’t think unions are necessary if my employer is already making me happy.

Unions are for protecting workers, regulatory agencies(government) are for protecting consumers. Both are nice to have, but again, I don’t think they’re absolutely necessary. Also, there’s also no guarantee that unions and regulators can always protect who they claim to protect due to corruption.

If I pay union dues and found out my union leaders are very cozy with sr management of my employer, I’d be pissed. Likewise, if I find regulators/politicians getting too cozy with big corporations, I’d be pissed too. I don’t appreciate being ripped off twice!

My rants against the dems were exactly that. It is known that GOP is friendlier to corporations... wants to give them tax cuts and less regulations so they can grow bigger and greater. Dems are supposed to be the opposite and looking out after the average people. I'm just very annoyed to see dems being 'pragmatic' when average americans are having difficulties making living wages and afford life saving medicine. Yet, we're ask to never give an inch about neo-nazis. Seriously, does fighting white supremacists and building more unisex bathrooms really help average americans live better lives?

Think of it this way, it's definitely good to have handicap parking spaces to make lives easier for them. However, if average drivers are having difficulties finding parking spots for themselves, do you think they want to hear politicians promoting for more handicap spaces? Extreme political ideologies often will cause us to lose sight of what's truly important.

If the neo-nazis are really beginning to build up arms getting ready to invade, maybe that's time for us to take action to fight them. If people are only having racist thoughts..., maybe by raising the standard of living for all will help ease their anxieties? Maybe if the world didn't punish Germany so severely after WWI, Hitler wouldn't even have a shot of gaining power?

If we couldn't even solve practical problems that we encounter daily, why do we worry about these ideological problems so much? When most people can all make living wages, then perhaps we can focus more on racism? What's the point of fighting racism when there are loads of hungry and sick people around? Should we really just learn to accept that's the reality of life that lots of fellow Americans will never make living wage and never have affordable healthcare? But fuck racism! We need to eradicate that at all cost!

Seriously, what's the better way to make Black Lives Matter? Defund the police? Or help black folks fund their families? Racist and corrupt cops definitely should be removed, but by blindly defunding the police most definitely won't solve our racist problem.

If Jesus doesn’t want to bless the food I ate and I end up with diarrhea, forgive me for unable to keep’em inside! :p

[Tom Servo]

I thought this post by Popehat about an instance of "cancel culture" was a good read: https://popehat.substack.com/p/hamline-university-and-cancel-culture

[neanderthal]

Am I guessing correctly that he's saying we should be able to trust employers to just do right to their employees? That's like saying we should be able to trust fossil fuel companies in doing the right thing when it comes to reducing greenhouse gas emissions and not needing government intervention.

Or trust a heroin addict near your apartment by not locking your door when you leave the house. Or any other ridiculous stereotypes that I can come up with on the spot.

It's a very, uhh.... Libertarian worldview.

I think I should come on this site when i am about to go do cardio, because ... yeah.

But yes. He was saying/ implying we should trust corps to do the best for workers.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think I should come on this site when i am about to go do cardio, because ... yeah.

But yes. He was saying/ implying we should trust corps to do the best for workers.

You don't read what I said correctly and assume the worst to cause your heart problems. :p

Bottomline is that I don't trust any human organizations. Not the church, not the government, not the companies, not the unions. I do give them the benefit of the doubt that they have good intentions, but we all know such intentions tend to end up paving our way to hell though.

Let me use the church as example. I also believe we don't absolutely need a church... especially if its corrupted somehow. I don't really need a church to follow Jesus. Likewise, I don't need a company to make a living. I also don't need unions to protect myself. Lastly, I don't think I absolutely need US government or CCP to exist in order to live my life. These things can certainly be nice to have when working properly. However, when they break down due to corruption, we'd either need to repair them or just scrap them and start new ones. Humans are imperfect; therefore, their organizations are also imperfect. I don't need perfection, I'm okay with good enough. However, if something just isn't working as intended, then we need to fix it or get something new.

Back to dems, they should be more like the union, but I think they're way too close with the rich corporations. Am I wrong about that?

[MR2 Fan]

Things not looking good in Brazil, attempted insurrection going on....I wonder where they got that idea

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-08/pro-bolsonaro-rioters-breach-into-congress-presidential-palace?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=business&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business

[FaultyMario]

Q is the new Al-Qaeda.

Who's going to be brave enough to put forth a declaration of international terrorist organization?

[Tom Servo]

That's the problem with Q, it's more of a big-tent conspiracy theory group than it is an organization. The closest thing you have to a leader are Jim and Ron Watkins, and at this point they basically have lost all control of the thing, it lives on its own. Q hadn't posted in forever and it took off just fine anyway, and then when Q did post again it was clearly Jim Watkins sucking at being Q. Most of the Q-faithful called it out as clearly being faked, but it did nothing to shake their resolve in the original idea of Q.

Like it or not, it's here to stay. It's a bunch of internet brain worms that spread similarly to covid, and at this point, it's self-sustaining. It also unfortunately really hit its stride right as Covid hit, which was one of the biggest conspiracy theory superchargers I've seen. People suddenly felt like their lives were tumbling out of their control, so a nice little way to tie it all up into "we are good, and the bad people are bad" world was extremely satisfying for a lot of people.

[FaultyMario]

it's self-sustaining.

No human system is self-sustaining. Somebody, somewhere is putting up the coin.

[Yw-slayer]

Things not looking good in Brazil, attempted insurrection going on....I wonder where they got that idea

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-08/pro-bolsonaro-rioters-breach-into-congress-presidential-palace?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=business&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business

From many examples before the MAGA episode in 2021 about which (unlike with earlier examples) there are still waves of pro-establishment articles put out by Western msm. HMMMMM ONE WONDERS WHY

[Tom Servo]

No human system is self-sustaining. Somebody, somewhere is putting up the coin.

Hundreds of thousands of conspiracy theorists would disagree.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Q is the new Al-Qaeda.

Who's going to be brave enough to put forth a declaration of international terrorist organization?

I can certainly be that brave, but such declaration made Al-Qaeda go away?

War on drugs/terror can rarely be won.

We can win WW2, but Nazis still exist today.

So declaration of war on ideologies really don’t work. Not sympathetic to their causes but just think we need to deal with them differently.

[2ndMoparMan]

https://twitter.com/MeidasTouch/status/1612555417628061696

Ha, dumb fucking bitch.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It used to just be the news medias that see/report 2 alternate realities... and then social media... soon our music will probably be different on 2 sides of the political spectrum?

Parallel economy used to refer to black markets, but I suppose as conservatives are kicked off or banned, the parallel economy for conservatives might grow?

However, liberals tend to be more open/creative so the liberal types are great at starting companies. However, conservatives are more conscientious/disciplined so they are much better at running companies. Ideally it'd be much better to have to 2 sides work together, but it is increasingly more likely that they'll be splitting up. It'd be much easier to steal ideals from liberals and start parallel companies, but I guess it won't be that easy to steal music and art.

Anyway, diverting/doubling efforts doing pretty much the same thing while reducing your overall market by half probably won't make our nation great again, but it seems that's probably where it's headed.

[FaultyMario]

My homies, you're voting Katie Porter for the Senate, right?

[Crazed_Insanity]

If I were still in CA, I’d definitely enthusiastically vote for her. She texted me for money, probably because I kept my old phone with CA area code… so least I can do is to send her some money I guess.

However, for normal democrats, I’m not sure where the line is draw between acceptable dems vs people who are too far progressive like Bernie. I’m sure Neanderthal will be able to answer that. I think Katie didn’t cross that line, right Neanderthal?

I just realized that Katie threw her hat in the ring while neither one of the sitting democratic senators made any announcements of their retirements though... so maybe Katie crossed the line there? For not waiting for the DNC to give her the official go ahead...

[Tom Servo]

I'm a fan, so yes.

[George]

She texted me for money, probably because I kept my old phone with CA area code...

I don't think they care about area codes at all.

My wife is more liberal about some things than I am and apparently gave MY - not her - cell phone number with a Colorado area code to some leftist outfit a few years ago.

I use the term leftist in all good humor. :)

Ever since, I've been getting texts from Democrats, mostly from outside the state in which we live, asking for money. They're all addressed to my wife, which is how I know they must be sharing or selling my cell phone number.

Mark Kelly in Arizona was the most egregious offender this past election season. We I also get texts to support various causes in addition to specific candidates. I've tried replying with "Wrong number" and "Remove this number from your database" and some less polite things but it only ever seems to recognize the word Stop as a reply. Of course, then they just send the same crap from a different phone number later.

I know of no recourse except changing my number or bellyaching about it on an internet forum. As usual, I have chosen the path of less resistance. :D

Here's today's message:

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRsdW665/IMG-E1043.jpg

By the way, this isn't a reflection on this candidate; just on spam texting.

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

Yeah, I honestly have no clue how they got my #. I got stuffs from Trump and MAGA candidates as well. Also bunch of beautiful gorgeous Chinese ladies wants to hook up with me thru Linkedin...

Anyway, I'm pretty good at ignoring incoming emails/txts/phone calls from people I don't not really know. If you're really that compelling, I will then respond. Katie for sure is one of the very few who should be worth a few bucks from me! ;)

[George]

Compelling or persistent? :)

I only remember giving money to one political candidate: my best friend from college. He was later appointed to a swanky Federal job by Trump.

Yet, somehow, I have an 8x10 autographed glossy photograph of Cindy and John McCain thanking me for my support in 2008. It is "signed" (by a machine, probably) to me personally with my first and last name. While I voted for McCain in 2008 because I thought he was better qualified for the job, I can't imagine having sent him or any other politician (that I didn't know personally) any money. So how did I get that photo?

But, I'm used to mysteries from 2008. Our twins were born earlier that year, so there's a gap of a few years in their early lives when I just can't remember much. :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Somebody must've donated under your name? Some rich special interest group stole your identity and funneled money to the campaign or your wife must've donated?

Anyway, I've only donated to the candidates I really really like, but the party seems to hate. I think I've only given to Bernie and Andrew Yang so far... because I didn't feel any other past candidates really needed money from somebody like me. :p Their respective parties should have plenty of money lined up for them. All I needed to do is to just show up and vote! Yeah, only felt 'compelled' to start donating when I became more anti-establishment...

[Rare White Ape]

Some politicians here do a particularly nasty thing where they send out voter enrolment forms with a reply paid envelope and a very plain looking cover letter urging you to keep your details up to date.

If you don’t look closely you’ll miss seeing that the supplied envelope is addressed to the local candidate’s office, not the electoral commission. This means that a politician’s office gets it, opens it, copies all of your info into a database, then forwards it onto the electoral commission.

From there you’re forever inundated with campaign material as election time rolls around. I’m lucky in that I spotted the grift before getting sucked in, but a lot of others most likely haven’t, particularly older people. But at least it keeps Australia Post workers busy for a while.

[Tom Servo]

George is like the anti-me. I am constantly inundated with demands for money from people like Herschel Walker and Trump, and lately started being spammed by "American Greatness", who almost immediately started begging for cash.

[George]

We should trade phones. :lol:

Nah, I surely don't want the Republicans to get my number. Or anyone else who will ask for money.

But, this gives me an idea. Maybe I should give my wife's number to Herschel Walker & Friends, sit back, and watch the fun!

[neanderthal]

I'm a fan, so yes.

Do you mind telling me us why?

For the record, I am NOT a fan: i fear she is more show than go.
I am a fan of her whiteboard antics when she is challenging, for instance, Jamie Dimon, but i'm afraid her legislative antics are comparatively lacking. (When compared to a Lauren Underwood, Sharice Davids, Lucy McBath.)

[Crazed_Insanity]

:popcorn:

[Tom Servo]

I actually like the whiteboard antics, I think she does a better job of most than explaining things in clear terms. She's also been pretty successful getting wins in an area that's traditionally pretty right-leaning.

You are right though, her record of getting legislation written and passed is lacking.

[neanderthal]

I actually like the whiteboard antics, I think she does a better job of most than explaining things in clear terms. She's also been pretty successful getting wins in an area that's traditionally pretty right-leaning.

You are right though, her record of getting legislation written and passed is lacking.

Oh. I looooove her whiteboard antics. Once the whiteboard comes out you know someone is going to get owned. In very clear and simple terms. I love that she is able to break down potentially complex situations, walk through them step and step, in getting the information she wants, or in showing how absurd what they are saying is. Jamie Dimon being grilled about a cashier working full time at Chase Bank is a perfect example.

I just wish that she had a record of writing meaningful legislation, that genuinely made a positive change in the lives of ordinary people. That would really cement her status as a politician doing the work. As it is she is just another AOC, periodically making noise; lots of noise, but not making legislation.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Could it be possible that there are obstructionists preventing them from making legislation? Bipartisan obstructions!

Anyway, let's just assume Bernie, AOC and Katie are just pretty dumb at actually making laws in congress, but you would agree that they do make loud enough 'noises', right? These 'noises' are generating popular grassroot supports and they have the campaign money to show for that...

One thing I'd like to ask you is why Dems feel that it's necessary to pass laws quietly and not make a huge scene? Is it because GOP are being such high class gentlemen? ;)

Dems and progressives are simply not leveraging their strengths enough to thoroughly beat the conservatives on election day.

DNC really need to teach and show how these elected by grassroot support how to actually pass laws and actually represent the people.

However, I get the feeling DNC doesn't want to work with candidates with grassroot support because they have their lobbyists to answer to.

Take our budget for example. It was passed quietly in the middle of the night near Xmas time. Should've been done back in september, right? Who has time to review a gazillion page budget around the end of the year? Yeah, it passed. However, I kinda doubt these progressive candidates would work so quietly in the middle of the night like that.

[Dicknose]

I just wish that she had a record of writing meaningful legislation, that genuinely made a positive change in the lives of ordinary people. That would really cement her status as a politician doing the work. As it is she is just another AOC, periodically making noise; lots of noise, but not making legislation.
How much of this is being on the fringe of the system. Get more like minded people and stuff will happen.

I do wonder if "career politicians" are good for the system. Sure you need some people with experience, but lots of old (mostly white guys) seems to make real progress hard to achieve.

[Crazed_Insanity]

At the risk of being labeled as a racist white supremacist again, I have to say that I really have nothing against white, young or old. I really don't believe 'white' is the problem... nor do I believe 'white' is superior. The issue isn't about 'whiteness', but indeed 'career politicians' are the problem. Although they are not as powerful as tyrannical dictators, but 'career politicians' are as close to dictatorship as it gets in a democracy. They serve the rich's interests while doing a good job pretending to be servants of the people. We can substitute white to black or to latinos or to asians... and rest assure the same corruption will happen.

Yes, it might suck when congress is full of inexperienced junior folks who don't know how to pass laws..., but surely that's better than having a bunch of experienced people stuck in a gridlock anyways? Only substantial amount of money is capable of unlocking those political gridlocks.

Of course there can be exceptions. Bernie Sanders has a long political career too. However, clearly no lobbyists like him though. If our political system is functional and gap between rich and poor isn't that huge, Bernie would not have a long political career. He'd probably truly be a gumpy white old man who nobody likes. ;)

[FaultyMario]

There have been protests for the last month in Peru. After the quasi-comical attempt by Pedro Castillo to disband the legislature, the right wing congress propped up one of their own and Boluarte has cracked against the protestors in the provinces with terrible consequences. 47 dead, so far.

Meanwhile in Brazil, since the October 30 election runoff, their particular brand of MAGA idiots have protested non stop. They even did their version of The Attack On The Capitol. How many dead? Zero.

[HondaKid86]

Now that Biden is fully poisonous, who are we gonna run?

[2ndMoparMan]

Me.

[Tom Servo]

Lol, we just went from "they're taking our gas stoves" to everyone should be allowed to smoke inside buildings in like four days. My bet is within a week Tucker Carlson will be calling on congress to let kids lick lead paint.

I guess on the plus side - if this is the new GOP led house, I figure within a year most of them will have gravely injured themselves with a firearm or carbon monoxide poisoning. To own the libs.

[2ndMoparMan]

Good, get rid of em.

[HondaKid86]

Shame that didn't happen with Covid. Sorry, not sorry.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, some of them died, but not enough to make any statistical difference… :p

Anyway, to me, it’s amazing now all of a sudden conservatives care about mishandling of secret docs, and liberals don’t care as much anymore…

I see our government will be busy investigating itself(each other) rather doing anything meaningful.

[Rare White Ape]

Shame that didn't happen with Covid. Sorry, not sorry.

That was our big chance, but we ruined it with scientific progress and sensible rules to protect people.

[neanderthal]

Saw that some anti vaxxers are tweeting "bet the sheep are regretting getting the jab now" or words to that effect. What happened? What did I miss?

[Tom Servo]

Nothing, as far as I can tell. It's some weird concerted effort to start some narrative, it seems like. All the misinformation/extremism research folk I follow can't seem to find much of a reason behind it other than some of the anti-vax influencers trying to go viral.

[Yw-slayer]

I think something about the bivalent vaccine leading to a higher risk of something in older people.

[Tom Servo]

If anything it's the anti-vaxxer's move of immediately blaming anything bad that happens to anyone as being a result of the vaccine. Damar Hamlin, Lisa-Marie Presley, etc. Look at Marjorie Taylor Greene, she's running around acting like nobody in history has ever had a stroke or cardiac arrest and this is all a new thing.

[Tom Servo]

Also, keep in mind that a lot of the people ginning up this latest round of nonsense also believe that Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton, amongst others, have been executed at Gitmo for crimes against humanity and now we're just seeing their clones developed by the CIA.

The anti-vax world used to be a bunch of folks like Jenny McCarthy and mostly focused around wealthy white women who "did their research" and followed Gwyneth Paltrow. They're now the rank and file Q folk, so it's more of just the deluded fantasy world.

[HondaKid86]

At the peak of the pandemic in the USA, before the vaccine was developed, I worked at a Covid testing site in Iowa where the woman in charge didn't believe in Covid, thought the vaccine was a conspiracy and had an 18-inch Q vinyl on the back window of her Dodge Journey. They dragged their feet on getting us the vaccine. It wasn't a priority for them. They were the gatekeepers for the entire state. Everyone from the governor to the EMS chief to the nurses running the sites thought Covid was fake. I thought I was going to die in Iowa, where 40% of the people we were testing were positive.

I have not even begun to process the trauma of having multiple unmasked symptomatic patients tell me that the virus is bullshit and we were all part of a conspiracy... while in line to get tested.

I have zero pity for these people, and frankly, my thoughts on Covid and the willfully unvaccinated are probably not suitable for this forum.

[HondaKid86]

I have a wingnut aunt who told my mom something to the effect of, "What a waste to survive breast cancer, only to get a vaccine that will kill you."

I was already disgusted by her and not on speaking terms for years, but that comment stopped me cold and I will never forgive her.

It frames every similar comment I hear from those gloating about potential side effects suffered by those who got vaccinated in an attempt to protect themselves, others and the stability of our healthcare system. The unvaccinated who float deserve whatever variants may come.

[HondaKid86]

Back on topic, Joe Biden has failed his party. He is unelectable, but we have no one on the bench. What happens now?

He wasn't even my fourth choice in the primary. Warren, Bernie, Beto, Pete.

It makes me sad to think how much better off we'd be as a country if we'd ever had the sense to elect Bernie over the years.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just want to say that our family is fully vaxed and still fully masked in public too. And again at the risk of sounding like a Q sympathizer, I honestly feel sorry for those duped into believing Covid is fake and then died because of it. Of course it is annoying to see people willfully ignorant, but conspiracies/ideologies are like virus too… and infected people will develop different symptoms… so I tend to see them as mentally sick rather than as assholes.

Of course I could be the one whose sick and stupid by injecting stupid shit in my body and foolishly wearing mask , believing doc love and Jesus, but glad I live in a country where I can choose how I want to live my life. I wish Chinese people can someday be as free.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Back on topic, Joe Biden has failed his party. He is unelectable, but we have no one on the bench. What happens now?

He wasn't even my fourth choice in the primary. Warren, Bernie, Beto, Pete.

It makes me sad to think how much better off we'd be as a country if we'd ever had the sense to elect Bernie over the years.

Bernie was my top choice too, but there’s no guarantee we will be better off though. Just as Carter is an awesome human being but he definitely was not one of the great presidents though.

Still, I’d like to give Bernie a chance.

[Tom Servo]

Back on topic, Joe Biden has failed his party. He is unelectable, but we have no one on the bench. What happens now?

Definitely don't mean this to be combative, but so far to me Biden feels....fine. Not good, not great, not terrible, not bad, just....fine. What's the thing that's put him in the terrible category for you?

[HondaKid86]

I don't think he can survive the scrutiny of this document fiasco.

Nor should he.

The garage? Come on.

[HondaKid86]

His average performance isn't enough to motivate Democrats to the polls, and in fact will probably discourage Democrats and moderates. His gaffes and mistakes will be seized on by Republicans, who have a deep roster of strong and electable personalities — which we don't.

Personally, I don't think Biden's done a bad job cleaning up all the messes Trump left for him — nor do I personally blame him for Afghanistan, student loan relief, the border. I just don't see how he's a viable candidate. Worse, I don't see anyone to whom he can pass the baton.

[Crazed_Insanity]

MAGA vs MANA(make America normal again)!

During the pandemic, people yearned for normalcy. Biden was the perfect candidate.

Yeah, American people probably won’t be looking for normalcy in 2024. If another huge disaster hits, surely Biden will be blamed for that. Unless we get into WW3…, then maybe Biden will gain popularity during war time just like W?

Difficult to predict the future, but as long as Bernie is alive, I will continue to pray for him.

[MR2 Fan]

Biden was a great inoffensive moderate old white guy, perfect antidote to Trump for the 2020 election. Now, I do think they should have another candidate, and Biden can claim it's due to his age, etc. that he won't run for a second term....IF there's a really good candidate waiting, but I don't know of any

[Crazed_Insanity]

Maybe Katie porter should skip the senate like Obama and run directly to White House. She’s a woman. She doesn’t have a foundation nor an email server. She came out of a conservative neighborhood so she should know how to deal with them and hopefully her white boards will go well with her new house and such whiteness will also make the white supremacists happier? ;)

I know Neanderthal and the usual dems will probably be happy with Kamala? However I seriously see Kamala as a black Hillary. If Hillary couldn’t win, some miracle had to happen for Kamala to win.

[Rare White Ape]

It frames every similar comment I hear from those gloating about potential side effects suffered by those who got vaccinated in an attempt to protect themselves, others and the stability of our healthcare system. The unvaccinated who float deserve whatever variants may come.

To bring it back completely OFF topic, we have a patient who’s got HIV, male aged 37. He was admitted in mid-November and put on ECMO.

November. That’s when he was admitted and put on ECMO. For those unaware, ECMO is where they stick a catheter in a vein near the heart, pump the blood out, use a machine to oxygenate it, then pump it into a separate vein near the heart, so that the patent can survive if their lungs are unable to do their job. It’s designed to perform this task for maybe a few weeks.

Every day we run a plasma haemoglobin test on him, to ensure that his red blood cells aren’t being destroyed by the process, multiple times a day we get blood gas tests, to ensure the process is working, and like all ECMO patients he’s on continuous heparin infusion, which may cause long lasting neurological side effects, to ensure that the blood doesn’t coagulate into a thick goo while it’s inside the machine.

He might die next week. Or in a month. Or in three months. No matter how long he survives, being unconscious on a bed unable to breathe is no way to exist.

But some people would rather not vaccinate, or not update their vaccines, than allow themselves to form the human barrier that helps prevent people like our patient from catching COVID-19.

[Tom Servo]

I don't think he can survive the scrutiny of this document fiasco.

Nor should he.

The garage? Come on.

I saw someone describe it like this: In both cases, you've just walked out of CVS and the metal detectors go off. In Biden's case, you go back and figure out if there's something you haven't paid for. In Trump's case, you grab as much as you can hold and run to your car and drive away as fast as possible.

This document think would be non-story if it weren't for the previous president's story and counting on everyone having goldfish brains.

[HondaKid86]

I tend to agree that Biden deserves the benefit of the doubt, is more diligent, and will be more transparent. But perception is reality, and to the lowest-denominator voters that make up the bulk of the electorate, these incidents are at par. The difference is, Trump's voter base will overlook his transgressions - any of them - for the sake of white supremacy. Biden's base of likely voters, I imagine, would be turned off permanently by this.

Regardless of my personal feelings toward him, from an objective standpoint, I don't see how he can run again and win.

[Tom Servo]

George Santos won. I wouldn't consider what's happening with Biden disqualifying.

If it means anything, the Q folk tried to work the Biden docs thing into their narrative and it fizzled out almost immediately. I don't think it's got a lot of traction, no matter how hard CNN and MSNBC are pushing it.

For what it's worth, Biden wasn't my first choice. I still think he's "meh" at best. But I don't think he's really moved the needle much with anybody, I doubt there are many people who have changed their opinion on him, even with the document thing.

[HondaKid86]

Can he really win re-election?

[Tom Servo]

I'm not a great judge of that, as I didn't think he could win the election in 2020.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmSB2ZNaMAEjg-8.jpg

"Do not dry your hair over gas stove!" - USSR, 1981

[neanderthal]

Same people who were propagating all the birther nonsense about President Obama quiet as church mice over George Santos, who may not be a citizen, and would therefore be ineligible to be a congresscritter.

[HondaKid86]

Tony Dungy, one of the top 20 most admired celebrities according to DBI, and certainly a respected figure in these forums, collaborates with dehumanizing anti-gay pastors and always has something horrible to say about gay athletes and gay people in general.

https://www.advocate.com/voices/2023/1/14/tony-dungy-and-when-someone-you-admire-turns-out-be-homophobe

People hate the "librul media", but the most anti-gay voice in the NFL has a platform on NBC.

Is it politics? I don't know. I'm just saying the onslaught is exhausting. I lived through Ellen losing her show because she was gay, and endured the Bush years during college. I felt such a reduction in the general enmity toward gay people under Obama — the first president to actually say "gay" out loud at inauguration (or probably ever). Trumpism, and legitimizing known bigot Mike Pence with a national office, set us back 20 years. And this recent tide of anti-trans panic makes it feel as dangerous as the Bush years, if not moreso. That Dungy even has a platform is depressing. It's a sign that we've regressed as a country. People with these harmful views should be pariahs in this day and age.

[HondaKid86]

Ways that Biden can shore up my/anyone's enthusiastic support for reelection:

Pack the FRICKIN' court already and save us from generations of permanent damage.

Force major healthcare or at least prescription reform with executive orders that would make Republicans look like aholes for vetoing.

Negotiate peace with any one of the current global hotspots.

Deftly implemented, but effective, protectionism for domestic manufacturing, especially in the high-tech sector.

Free community college for all.

Using the presidential pen to do something — anything — lasting and positive.

[Tom Servo]

I hear ya. The overton window shifted far right and now we're not even making an attempt to shift it left. Biden feels like the dampers just returning the suspension to normal after a nasty Trump pothole. Nothing great is coming out of this administration, but we are getting a slow trickle of good things, which still feels better than the four years prior.

But for whatever it's worth, a vocal minority of far-right fringe people are in control. They are great at shamelessly using the slightest thing as a culture war shiv - see the gas stove thing. I'm not sure how you can push back against that if you still also want to have integrity.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Best way to push back against that is to enact liberal policies and make them work! If can’t pass at national level, make it work in a blue state, particularly in CA!

At the moment it’s not just Elon moving to a red state, CA for whatever reasons is losing people. People are truly voting with their feet!

Take care of your own people 1st before considering banning ICE and stoves.

I did not leave CA for political reasons, plus I’m still at a blue state, but reality is that Texas and Florida are attracting more people. This doesn’t bode well for actual elections.

If DNC leadership insists on candidates that pleases the corporations rather than the people, this is what happens. What’s worse in CA is that it’s not even corporation friendly. Even the new Republican speaker was having a super hard time recently… entire nation just hates CA for some reason! ;)

I love CA, I don’t even really know exactly what went wrong and how to fix it, but clearly something is wrong.

Anyway, if more and more blue state have more and more people moving in, then blue team winning general elections should be easy.

[JoshInKC]

The gas stove thing is very funny to me - I had no idea that 4 years ago I was entering a new front in the culture wars when the house I bought had a gas hookup and I didn't feel like running another 240v followed by buying a slightly more expensive induction stove. In my experience, almost no-one actually makes a choice about the power supply to their oven, they just replace what's already there with like because it's more of a pain in the ass to change, and they need to get a non-broken appliance asap.

[MR2 Fan]

where did this gas stove controversy come from? I missed it apparently

[Yw-slayer]

It is a fact that gas hobs are the only way to get "Wok Hei".

Is that enough to cause the Republicans to spit blood and go for induction or whatever stuff?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Studies found cancer causing agents from natural gas, plus it is a form of fossil fuel so naturally it’s bad for the climate.

If something were to happen, government naturally can’t force everyone to switch, just new homes won’t be allowed to have them.

It is good to protect your citizens and planet earth, but if it’s at the expense making the life of your citizens miserable now, naturally you’ll get some push backs. Plus, Biden isn’t going to do anything, they’re just ‘looking into it’. Some are just making it a big deal out of nothing.

Still, I wish Biden can focus more on the here and now rather than policies of decades down the future. If Roe vs Wade can be reversed, why couldn’t your ICE car ban? Climate change is definitely important, but doing things that will help you win votes now in a democracy is even more important.

If there are significant amount of people who don’t like life saving vaccine mandates, it’s probably easy to predict what would happen if there’s a federal mandate on what kind of stove you use.

Just let the word out natural gas might be harmful and give out tax credit to help people switch is probably the best solution. Lesson learned should be to minimize mandates. People don’t like to be told what to do. Even CCP had to relent…

[Phil_SS]

When we redid our kitchen last year we changed the position of the range and added a gas line to switch from an Electric Oven to a Gas oven.

I don't give a shit about what anyone thinks, my wife wanted a gas range and likes cooking with it, that's all that matters to me.

[JoshInKC]

It is a fact that gas hobs are the only way to get "Wok Hei".

Is that enough to cause the Republicans to spit blood and go for induction or whatever stuff?

That's true, but as far as I'm aware only a negligible portion of (very, very expensive) home gas stovetops* in the US are capable of getting anywhere near a high enough temp for good wok-work. Most people who actually need that kind of heat should go with a commercial model or a propane ring in their driveway.

*Also, the vast majority of gas hookups for stoves I've ever seen are 1/2", which I'm not sure would provide enough fuel to burn that hot.

[FaultyMario]

Our national electric system has a tiered price structure. It quickly becomes expensive to have electric cooking appliances. It's usually LPG for both, although small electric ovens are commonplace. We also tend to run LPG dryers.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Gave some more thought over this… from a conspiratorial perspective…

Who pushed/funded this natural gas research? And who has the most to gain by banning gas stoves?

I couldn’t find much about that except this: https://californiaglobe.com/articles/the-tangled-web-behind-the-push-to-ban-gas-stoves/amp/

I think this in a way might explain CA’s problem. The lobbyists our politicians are not listening folks producing actual goods. Our policies are driven by bogus orgs/companies like Theranos, FTX, Bernie Madoff, Enron… while we’re screwing not just common folks but also companies that produced real goods…

[Tom Servo]

where did this gas stove controversy come from? I missed it apparently

One of the members of the Consumer Product Safety Commission went on TV and referred to a recent study showing that gas stoves make the air quality in a home worse and are contributing to childhood asthma cases. He said if they can't be made safe, then it would be within their purview to ban them.

That said, no actual move has been made to do so by the CPSC. I think California just recently did, but it's a ban in that you can't build a new home with gas lines for a stove. If you have a gas stove, you're fine. If you have a home with an existing gas line, you can still install a new gas stove.

Then people like Jim Jordan started tweeting shit like "God. Guns. Gas Stoves." and it became a weird culture war thing.

[HondaKid86]

Don't Look Up was a documentary.

[Tom Servo]

What's even more fun is that the states with the highest proportion of gas stoves are almost all democratic strongholds. Last I saw, the only states with > 50% gas stoves were California, Nevada, Illinois, New York, and New Jersey. Ron DeSantis waded into this with weird stove-related Gadsden flags, and in Florida gas stoves are banned in the many high-rises they have there. It's just exceptionally stupid because overall, it's usually the blue elites that have the nicest gas stoves. The most passionate plea I saw about gas stoves was from Jacques Pepin, and I don't think he's a big MAGA dude.

Speaking as someone who cooks somewhat regularly, I love my gas stove. I've had electric ones, and they sucked. That said, they were the old style big-coil burners that were awful. Halogen ones also suck. Induction, however, really doesn't. If you can afford it, it's awesome. I'm assuming as induction becomes the defacto standard as we rightfully move away from gas, they'll come down in price. This'll be a thing that'll happen over the next 30 or so years, but goddamn if the Republicans can't turn it into a weird culture war thing.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I just wish our culture wars can be more focused on affordable healthcare or higher education or something that can improve people’s lives now.

We should learn by now our world can’t be fixed by bans and mandates. Our world can only be changed by we actually create and invent new techs to solve our problems!

Our electrical grid couldn’t even handle the load on hot days when we all turn on our AC, imagine what would happen when if we all drive EV and use electric stoves?

We should focus on developing cheaper better tech than forcing people to change.

Once we have fusion, fossil fuel won’t be able to compete…

[JoshInKC]

Yeah, I really like our gas stove - it boils water and pre-heats fast. Drives me nuts when I'm out in the field during the summers because the stoves there are deeply crappy.
Based on my experience, I think the biggest thing is just that there are a lot of cheap, shitty stoves out there. Every rental I've ever lived in has had the cheapest piece of crap available, and most houses I've bought or sold had one just nice enough to not look like the cheapest piece of crap on the market. 15ish years ago when my wife and I needed to replace the stove our house came with, we spent a little extra cash and bought a mid-range replacement and were both really impressed with how much better it was than just about every one we'd had previously. When we moved to our currently place and had to buy all new appliances, we actually had enough money to buy fairly nice stuff and that was another pretty big jump in quality.
The cheap electric ones don't get hot enough, and the cheap gas ones don't simmer for crap.

[HondaKid86]

The stove thing just hit my Facebook feed in the form of a homophobic meme.

"Conservatives" are bullies and cretins.
They're fucking stupid, too.

[Tom Servo]

Based on my experience, I think the biggest thing is just that there are a lot of cheap, shitty stoves out there. Every rental I've ever lived in has had the cheapest piece of crap available, and most houses I've bought or sold had one just nice enough to not look like the cheapest piece of crap on the market.

I think this is exactly it. My wife's apartment had an electric oven and the thing struggled to hit 300F and it took it forever to get there. I think the thing is there aren't really any *horrible* gas stoves and ovens. They might not be great, but they'll get hot enough to do whatever you need. There are a lot of truly shit electric ones.

On the other hand, with an induction stove, you can boil water in half the time vs. gas. It honestly is just plain better, but it's expensive. And I am not sure how the oven part works out.

[Yw-slayer]

That's true, but as far as I'm aware only a negligible portion of (very, very expensive) home gas stovetops* in the US are capable of getting anywhere near a high enough temp for good wok-work. Most people who actually need that kind of heat should go with a commercial model or a propane ring in their driveway.

*Also, the vast majority of gas hookups for stoves I've ever seen are 1/2", which I'm not sure would provide enough fuel to burn that hot.

Right - isn’t the fact that foreign gas stoves are better and useful for wok-hei even more reason to get the Republicans to do a 180?

[Crazed_Insanity]

The stove thing just hit my Facebook feed in the form of a homophobic meme.

"Conservatives" are bullies and cretins.
They're fucking stupid, too.

In honor of MLK, I do wish to use data to prove that most of us actually agree on most things!

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-resistance-hypothesis/202301/most-people-agree-about-most-things

We wrongly believe we American have large insurmountable disagreements due to perception gap…

[Rare White Ape]

I assume ‘gas’ for cooking in America means LPG like we use in Australia?

Just so everyone’s aware, I’m all for a complete ban on using gas to power appliances. Give everyone 10 years to switch to electric. Be a good government and subsidise most, if not all of the cost for homeowners. But not landlords. Fuck them.

The sooner we ban gas the better, because it means we can give petrol an extra bit of time to live on in our cars. Vroom vroom!

[Yw-slayer]

No no no. Silly RWA. Gas is the only way to get wok-hei.

[HondaKid86]

Is there *anything* that won't be weaponized in the culture wars?

Is there a limit to the banality? I haven't seen it.

What's next?

[JSGeneral]

What's next?

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/17/1149464953/new-mexico-shooting-politicians-solomon-pena

[21Kid]

Back on topic, Joe Biden has failed his party. He is unelectable, but we have no one on the bench. What happens now?

He wasn't even my fourth choice in the primary. Warren, Bernie, Beto, Pete.

It makes me sad to think how much better off we'd be as a country if we'd ever had the sense to elect Bernie over the years. <3

What about Kamala?


When we redid our kitchen last year we changed the position of the range and added a gas line to switch from an Electric Oven to a Gas oven.

I don't give a shit about what anyone thinks, my wife wanted a gas range and likes cooking with it, that's all that matters to me. If it was 1:1 I would agree with you... but induction is better, whereas gas can be dangerous.
"Natural gas stoves emit risky pollutants like nitrogen dioxide and carbon monoxide that have been linked to respiratory illness, cardiovascular issues and sometimes cancer."
"If you're looking for the fastest cooking times and most accurate temperatures, an induction stove is for you."
The only thing I see gas having over induction is seeing the flame. But again, that flame is letting out toxins.


Speaking as someone who cooks somewhat regularly, I love my gas stove. I've had electric ones, and they sucked. That said, they were the old style big-coil burners that were awful. Halogen ones also suck. Induction, however, really doesn't. If you can afford it, it's awesome. I'm assuming as induction becomes the defacto standard as we rightfully move away from gas, they'll come down in price. This'll be a thing that'll happen over the next 30 or so years, but goddamn if the Republicans can't turn it into a weird culture war thing.I think it will too. Everything I've read/heard on induction is that "This is the Way!!" I just got an email that our gas bill is going to DOUBLE this month. I'm very interested in going solar and updating everything to electric to avoid price hikes like these.

[Tom Servo]

I just got an email that our gas bill is going to DOUBLE this month. I'm very interested in going solar and updating everything to electric to avoid price hikes like these.

That seems to be going around this part of town. I hear that So Cal Gas and SDG&E also were sending out letters saying that gas prices were going to be about double.

Our gas is part of our HOA dues, so we won't see it directly, but it'll bite us down the road I'm sure.

[George]

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/17/1149464953/new-mexico-shooting-politicians-solomon-pena

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is apparently what a 21st-Century Republican looks like.

(it's a picture from the article JSG linked)


https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2023/01/17/trujillo-whataburger-b369e34c03f31dd13c942716293b2e3738916a4e-s800-c85.webp

[Crazed_Insanity]

At the risk of sounding like a republican sympathizer...

I'm pretty sure that is not a typical republican, but some fringe nutcase.

Assuming all republicans are like that is pretty much the same as assuming all black people are...

There's just no need to go there.

[neanderthal]

And right on cue billi appears to coddle the fascists ...

Every. fucking. time.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You meant cuddle? I'm an equal opportunity cuddler. :p

Anyways, that guy is no longer just a conservative, but a psycho criminal. It's not helpful to imagine all republicans to be like that.

[Rare White Ape]

That seems to be going around this part of town. I hear that So Cal Gas and SDG&E also were sending out letters saying that gas prices were going to be about double.

Our gas is part of our HOA dues, so we won't see it directly, but it'll bite us down the road I'm sure.

18 months ago wholesale gas prices from Australian sources were tanking.

Now they're skyrocketing, and our democratic-socialist left wing government who look like this (see pic (https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2023/01/17/trujillo-whataburger-b369e34c03f31dd13c942716293b2e3738916a4e-s800-c85.webp)) took action to limit the impact on household bills and have enacted a domestic gas price cap.

I blame the Russians.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Again, at the risk of appearing as a Russian sympathizer, I need to help clarify that the main person deserving blaming is probably Putin? Pretty sure majority of Russians probably don’t want this Ukrainian invasion to continue.

Most people are really more alike than they’re different. Too bad the fringe bad actors are screwing things up for all of us.