Politics

[Cam]

Back on topic, Reuters and Associated Press for reputable news.

[neanderthal]

Will never happen.

Oh yeah?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/20/media/smartmatic-fox-news-retraction/index.html

[FaultyMario]

Back on topic, Reuters and Associated Press for reputable news.

Upvote for AP!

[Yw-slayer]

Well, yeah. I guess maybe it would have been more accurate to say "the least biased" news. A news org not beholden to ratings or advertisers that also doesn't hand over editorial control to the state I still think is the closest thing you're going to get.

Disagree. All of them have their own editorial angles and are susceptible to groupthink, advertising/subscriber/, viewing needs and so on. It may be subtly as or even more biased, or even more insidious is the bias that you can't detect.

"Reputable"? See point on bias. Just assume they all have it and adjust, and they all print different shit in different ways. Some more than others in some areas, some less than others in other areas. But in this climate mud sticks and that counts, not necessarily what's right and fair.


Even without bias they just get things wrong sometimes. I can assure you that I have seen reports of judicial proceedings that quote someone as having said something which was, in fact, not said, and I know as I was there the whole day and did not hear anyone saying such a thing, and had the transcript which does not show anyone saying such a thing.

This was in 2007, when relations between various parties were still relatively cordial. I am pretty sure they just got it wrong and printed the wrong shit.

[Tom Servo]

I kinda feel like you're trying to have it both ways here. Of course they all have their own editorial angles, but it feels like a bothsidesing that's trying to equate things like NPR and the BBC with RT and Fox News. I gotta hard disagree there.

Hell, I'd argue that having a guaranteed source of funding that's not based on pageviews helps mud not stick, so I guess I'm not seeing where you're going with this.

I also absolutely understand they make mistakes. I think Fox News recent thing with Dominion is a perfect example. Sources I trust post corrections. They'll edit an article, then add a correction notice saying what they got wrong and what they did to correct it. Fox just got out of their deal with Dominion without having to go on air and correct what they knowingly lied about.

I still stand by my statement, the least biased news I know about in the US is NPR. AP and Reuters are maybe less so, but they also make the critical omission of just repeating what known liars say and not giving any context, a lot like 60 minutes just did by having Marjorie Taylor Fucking Greene on and doing the absolute bare minimum of challenging her nonsense.

We're really going to see how this goes when RFK Jr. keeps hinting at his anti-vaxx views without actually saying them. I don't think it's bias for a news organization to point out that his whole thing has been anti-vaxx conspiracy theories for the past decade+, but I'd imagine that AP and Reuters will not delve into that when they report on him.

[Yw-slayer]

No, it's not bothsidesing. It's just a facet of reality. Do I accept as blind truth whatever each news outlet says? No. Information and soft power are a crucial part of warfare.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I still stand by my statement, the least biased news I know about in the US is NPR. AP and Reuters are maybe less so, but they also make the critical omission of just repeating what known liars say and not giving any context, a lot like 60 minutes just did by having Marjorie Taylor Fucking Greene on and doing the absolute bare minimum of challenging her nonsense.

We're really going to see how this goes when RFK Jr. keeps hinting at his anti-vaxx views without actually saying them. I don't think it's bias for a news organization to point out that his whole thing has been anti-vaxx conspiracy theories for the past decade+, but I'd imagine that AP and Reuters will not delve into that when they report on him.

I don’t think reporters need to report what is not being said. They definitely could strategically ask questions to help reveal more of what’s not said, but not sure if a reporter should force his own bias by challenging or interrogating as if the interview is a trial.

Whether if something is BS, it’s probably up to the viewers/readers to decide. Journalists’ job should just ‘report’ as is and not try to add anything to spice up ratings or personal fame.

Also, whether if it’s the topic of vaccines or abortion, why should these issues be of the most importance? Why should there be a litmus test so that once we get them tested, then we’d know they’ll end up on CNN more or FOX more?

Surely we have other more important issues to dive into?

[Tom Servo]

Do you judge them all as biased as the others, or are some closer to the truth?

[Tom Servo]

I still post about him here even though it's only tangentially politics related, but I don't know where else to put it:

If y'all aren't following the "twitter blue checkmark as punishment" drama happening on Twitter right now, where Elon looks like he's melting down trying to make it look like a bunch of shitposters paid to be there, you're missing out.

[Yw-slayer]

Do you judge them all as biased as the others, or are some closer to the truth?

Some may get closer to the truth than others, but whjch of those they are and on what occasions, you'll never really know. Unless, of course, you were there in here middle of it such as me in court or living through months of Billi's idiot brainwashed bros ruining it for everyone from 2019 (including the mind-numbing garbage propaganda put out by them and unquestioningly lapped up by morons and media overseas who of course ignored or downplayed rhe parts which didn't fit their preconceived notions or story angle).

Anyway, just assume everyone only says shit whcih fits their worldview and needs. Then live your life accordingly and just get on with it.

[Tom Servo]

Man, I can't get behind that world view. I think some news sources are far more honest than others. Assuming they're all full of shit equally feels like the kind of thing that drives you towards QAnon.

[Rare White Ape]

I think YW is right, and has a healthy response: get on with it. Qanon types are unable to do that and it leads to them turning into shitbags.

It is frustrating, but the less you engage, the less fuel there is available for it to continue.

[Yw-slayer]

Indeed, the easiest thing to do is to expect the worst
Then you'll be pleasantly surprised when it works out better than that.

It's a bit like flying to Heathrow. Expect to lose your luggage or have it be delayed for 40 mins and it's always a good start to your day when neither happens.

Alternatively, you could look at as just approaching pretty much everything with a healthy dose of scepticism and an appreciation of the importance of realpolitik and the role that the media (especially, and given soft power, the English-language media) plays or claims to play in shaping certain people's mindsets.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I fully agree with the motto: ‘expect the worst and hope for the best’

However, when it comes to Billi, I think you’ve expected his worst and seems like you’ve lost all hope! it’s as it you’ve arrived at Heathrow airport and just assumed your luggage didn’t arrive with you and you just walked out of the airport because you’ve put your luggage on ignore! :p

[FaultyMario]

If y'all aren't following the "twitter blue checkmark as punishment" drama happening on Twitter right now, where Elon looks like he's melting down trying to make it look like a bunch of shitposters paid to be there, you're missing out.

The Holocaust Memorial account posted that they had been branded as blue'd, then lost their verified status and then were reinstated as if nothing has happened.

Elno is the prime example of that nepobabies will be as innovative as the initial push they get from their (family-supplied) support networks.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Thank goodness for that emerald mine! Or else there’d be no EV revolution and we’d still be begging Russians to get our astronauts into space while supplying bullets to Ukrainians…

Lastly, if Twitter were really that serious about itself as a company, they should’ve fought hard to protect itself against such a hostile takeover by such an asshole.

All the senior folks care about is money. Nobody really care about the bird or the blue checks. If money rules, then naturally the richer man gets bigger say in things. I don’t know why I should care about Twitter and its checks. People should just follow NPR’s foot steps.

[Tom Servo]

Indeed, the easiest thing to do is to expect the worst
Then you'll be pleasantly surprised when it works out better than that.

It's a bit like flying to Heathrow. Expect to lose your luggage or have it be delayed for 40 mins and it's always a good start to your day when neither happens.

Alternatively, you could look at as just approaching pretty much everything with a healthy dose of scepticism and an appreciation of the importance of realpolitik and the role that the media (especially, and given soft power, the English-language media) plays or claims to play in shaping certain people's mindsets.

Even with this, presumably you think other airports will be less shitty than Heathrow.

I get a healthy dose of skepticism, sure, and maybe it's just a misunderstanding, but to me that feels very different from assuming everything is bullshit. I'll generally give like Washington Post and NPR the benefit of the doubt, I would not do that with Epoch Times.

[FaultyMario]

I think i get what both of you are saying.

In the last few weeks we Mexicans have been exposed to Crenshaw and Graham blaming us for the opioid crisis.

The media down here have made a half-assed attempt of explaining that those two politicians do it not out of concern for their constituents' well-being but as part of their campaign communications strategies. "Blame the beaners and the beaner lovers", in essence.

The part that our media conveniently leave out is the explanation of how politicians and their donors operate with certain media outlets to make the messaging more powerful and how they make it resonate with certain audiences and enter a self-sustaining feedback loop.

Because then they would expose themselves to more scrutiny from media-literate audiences.

[Rare White Ape]

OBVIAS BIAS FROM CNNNN

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/7v7lrqxlfE0?fbclid=IwAR1MwXso1M4zKRk0ENTzkxO_9RkWl B1L-TqQTR0As7l3b4ruVqgsDTJbkmM&mibextid=uc01c0

[Yw-slayer]

That was an example of the attitude. Other airports may be less shitty in that way than Heathrow, but you can also expect them to be crap in other ways. For example if you go to KLIA, just expect the Aerotrain to not work.

I think Faulty gets what I mean.

[neanderthal]

The Holocaust Memorial account posted that they had been branded as blue'd, then lost their verified status and then were reinstated as if nothing has happened.

Elno is the prime example of that nepobabies will be as innovative as the initial push they get from their (family-supplied) support networks.

Indeed. Someone posted a pic of the "verified" accounts, of dead celebrities. Elno, like his ardent fan billi, is just a moron.

[FaultyMario]

I don't think the average member of the billionaire class is 'a moron'. They are just not the genius that they pay to be portrayed as.

[FaultyMario]

Also, the average member of the 'genius class' tends to be a soul-less dickstain who thinks that because they've solved some very specific problems, they're also right about everything.

[Tom Servo]

That was an example of the attitude. Other airports may be less shitty in that way than Heathrow, but you can also expect them to be crap in other ways. For example if you go to KLIA, just expect the Aerotrain to not work.

I think Faulty gets what I mean.

I'm just going to chalk this up to a misunderstanding I guess. My take was that you basically expect everything to be shit, now it's that you expect things to be different levels of shit, some not so shit, some lots of shit, which is what I was trying to describe in the first place.

And I'll still stand by our publicly funded news orgs are the "not so shit" vs. the advertising based "very shitty" news networks, and that it's fine to adjust one's expectations accordingly.

[Yw-slayer]

I don't think that (publicly funded news orgs being less shit) is always the case. But anyway, adjust for everything.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Also, the average member of the 'genius class' tends to be a soul-less dickstain who thinks that because they've solved some very specific problems, they're also right about everything.

What is the threshold of genius class? I don't really know. However, I tend to agree that people who are smart tend to think that they're right about everything. I might also add that people who are rich tend to think similarly as well.

It is abundantly clear that Elon Musk isn't right about everything. Otherwise every single one of his ventures should've succeeded.

I personally don't think he is Tesla level genius, but certainly smarter than me and perhaps even most of you. He also has sufficient businesses smarts for otherwise he would've been long gone like the actual Tesla.

There are a LOT more dickstains in the business world who'll be ready to gobble you up when you're least expected. Tesla's genius was no match for that. So for Elon to succeed both technically and in the business world is pretty amazing to me.

Now, was Elon the mean business Edison who gobbled up the original founders of Tesla EV? I’m really not sure the original Tesla EV company could succeed without Elon though. Plus, which rocket company did Elon take over to form SpaceX?

The Twitter incident is unfortunate. I do hope Elon eventually make something of it or otherwise this has really been a giant waste of time and money…

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't think that (publicly funded news orgs being less shit) is always the case. But anyway, adjust for everything.

The question is how does one make the adjustments?

Of course Swervo's not wrong either. Just go with the most 'trusted' source. However, everyone trusts different sources.

Best way is to watch a developing story thru the lenses of different news organizations. After seeing the story from different angles, then perhaps we can then 'adjust' and piece together the story for ourselves. If a broken clock can be right twice a day, even Fox news could also be right occasionally. Relying on a single perspective is probably not the best way forward. Good thing of the 'freedumb' world is that we will have plenty of different perspectives. I really don't know how YW could adjust for things regarding news within China.

Also, Don Lemon and Tucker Carlson were both let go from their respective networks. This brings to the question of which source should we trust more? The journalist or the network? Yeah, everything needs adjustments. Glad we have multiple views thanks to free press.

[FaultyMario]

What is the threshold of genius class?

Being the recipient of an internationally-recognized award? Having hundreds of academic citations? Name associated to a procedure or method like 'Alcubierre drive' or 'Nash equilibrium'?

[neanderthal]

Fucker Carlson out at Faux News. We fucking love it.

Tucked around and found out.

[sandydandy]

Don Lemon fired from CNN as well. Same day.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Being the recipient of an internationally-recognized award? Having hundreds of academic citations? Name associated to a procedure or method like 'Alcubierre drive' or 'Nash equilibrium'?

I think it's safe to say that Elon doesn't belong in that class? But he's still in the billionaire class...

Anyway, when you are smart and rich, they tend to make you more arrogant... and it does sometimes make you moronic when you think too highly of yourself. I do hope that Elon won't fall too badly... or when he actually falls, I hope he won't drag down Tesla and SpaceX with him...

GM has just announced ending production of both Bolt EVs. Remember such fanfare starting with Chevy Volt? Now they're not selling affordable EVs anymore. Seriously, if we didn't have Tesla, there'd be no EV revolution. GM CEOs have always been very politically correct, but can't really count on them to help fight climate change.

I wonder if Biden will continue to tout GM as the global EV leader.

[Crazed_Insanity]

To change the subject to Ukraine conflict, I think we're in a stalemate and will likely be in one for a while.

Our sanctions have also in effect raised a new 'iron curtain'. All the Westerners are on one side, and all the nations on the outside of this curtain are now getting together and teaming up to fight and attempting to end US dominance.

Globalization is effectively over.

In a way, I kinda wish Trump had been successful at disbanding NATO. Maybe Ukrainians could still be living life normally that way.

[JoshInKC]

:twitch:

[retsmah]

If y'all aren't following the "twitter blue checkmark as punishment" drama happening on Twitter right now, where Elon looks like he's melting down trying to make it look like a bunch of shitposters paid to be there, you're missing out.

Agree this specific part of twitter drama isn't exactly politics, but has been a good train wreck to watch! It seems to me like Twitter must be at risk of lawsuits, they're making a bunch of fake celebrity endorsements by explicitly saying various famous people have paid for twitter checkmarks when they have not.

[FaultyMario]

GM has just announced ending production of both Bolt EVs. Remember such fanfare starting with Chevy Volt? Now they're not selling affordable EVs anymore. Seriously, if we didn't have Tesla, there'd be no EV revolution. GM CEOs have always been very politically correct, but can't really count on them to help fight climate change.

Bro, do you even read?

GM is killing the production of their small and affordable EVs in order to free up capabilities for production of their bigger, more profitable EVs.

[Rare White Ape]

Apparently Daddy Elon has been masquerading as a child on Twitter using an alt account on his crusade to make people think he is funny. This apparent alt account even replies to ‘himself’ on his main account.

It would be all pretty harmless nonsense if he wasn’t making creepy sexual jokes that may remind some people of child abuse. Just lovely.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Bro, do you even read?

GM is killing the production of their small and affordable EVs in order to free up capabilities for production of their bigger, more profitable EVs.

Can’t blame a company for wanting to make more money. Bolt EVs aren’t selling well and likely won’t be able to compete with model3 as Tesla cut prices further…

It’d be better to hear GM improving on their affordable EVs rather than just kill them off and focus on just selling EVs to the rich.

When the day comes that high end EVs are not profitable as well, what then?

End production of course and focus on whatever’s more profitable!

[neanderthal]

:twitch:

It's next level dumbfuckery that he thinks is him operating at 4D chess levels while we're struggling with tik tac toe. When in reality it's "you tried to sound clever and instead you sounded like a psychopath."

[Crazed_Insanity]

Don’t mean to sound psychotic, but I really think it’s our world that has gone psycho!

Another developing story that is Covid is now originated from lab again!

https://oversight.house.gov/release/covid-origins-part-2-hearing-wrap-up-intelligence-community-officials-provide-further-evidence-that-covid-19-originated-in-a-wuhan-lab/

Yeah, I used to wonder perhaps politicians are covering stuffs up before…, now I’m wondering if US government is just doing this to justify war with China?

Something fishy went on in that lab and US has a hand or funding in it. Very convenient to just blame it all on the Chinese.

Anyway, maybe I really am crazy, but don’t be too concerned, I’d never vote for Trump.

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-65395860

Of course, it's not just English language western media who manage to troll and piss off the South!

[Yw-slayer]

GM is killing the production of their small and affordable EVs in order to free up capabilities for production of their bigger, more profitable EVs.

Wait until he realises that Chinese companies make good EVs in pretty much all segments!!

[Crazed_Insanity]

My beef has always been against CCP, not China in general. I am Chinese American after all. I don't hate my own kind.

As for the American side, yeah, I'm not very fond of our own politicians as well. Our foreign policies often ended up causing humanitarian crisis and creating evil monsters.

Chinese should definitely take advantage of Tesla's free/opened patents and copy the crap out of them and build cheap/affordable EVs people actually want to buy. What the typical products American buyers want, they're probably not good for the planet. GM is a great automaker. Corvette is testament of what it's capable of. However, not sure if they'll ever start an EV revolution while chasing profits.

Here's another difference with Elon. I really don't think he was focused on chasing profits. His aim was step by step path to mass produce EVs and to goto Mars. Then profits chased him.

I am hoping his longterm vision for Twitter is to create this everything app including making bitcoin easier to use... for otherwise, this just might be his downfall.

[21Kid]

Just come out and say it YW. China is Awesome Value!

About the news bias. Sure everyone is going to have a slight bias. But there are certain outlets that are on an entirely different level. Like Faux news blatant lying.

I wish there was some kind of journalistic integrity requirements. I don't have time to figure out the authors, editor, company, funders bias when reading an article or seeing something on the news.

Honestly I don't think state funding would be that bad. Currently our news is funded by advertising, which means clicks and views. And increasingly news is becoming more shocking, click-bait, partisan because of it.

I stopped watching the nightly news when I was 20 because it always showed the bad side of everything. And it's only gotten worse. Because that's what sells.

If they didn't need to shock people to get views to sell to advertisers... maybe we wouldn't have such biased, upsetting news reported all the time.

[retsmah]

GM really isn't going that upmarket with their 2024 EV lineup, the Equinox starts at $30k. It's like $4k more than the subcompact Bolt, and $11k less than the cheapest Tesla.

It's sad to see them giving up the subcompact market, but most other manufacturers have already done so. Honda, Toyota, Ford, Hyundai, Mazda all dropped theirs. I think we're left with the Nissan Versa, Kia Rio and Mitsubishi Mirage?

[Crazed_Insanity]

When the need to return to office, the short list of EVs to buy is now shorter. So far leases still doughs out $7500 tax credit whereas purchases don’t. So my current list is Hyundai Kona and Model 3.

Anyway, imagine a world without Tesla. I’m pretty sure no legacy automakers will be making these money losing EVs.

Legacy rocket makers also can’t even catch up!

That moron is so lucky that his dad has an emerald mine and he was able to find smart people to work for him and making him so rich.

[FaultyMario]

Anyway, imagine a world without Tesla fanbois.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/I6XKFsCXS7g/hqdefault.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

The world was without Tesla fanboys for quite a long time before and I don’t remember it looking like that.

[George]

I wonder who will win the giraffe vs. ostrich race.

[Yw-slayer]

If they didn't need to shock people to get views to sell to advertisers... maybe we wouldn't have such biased, upsetting news reported all the time.

Quite. I mean, look at the reporting on that Meghan Trainor interview (I'm being serious here). "MY HUSBAND HUGE DICK MAKE SEX PAINFUL" obviously much more clickbaity than "I have a medical condition which means it is painful for me to have vaginal intercourse."

[Crazed_Insanity]

Discussions of politics, religions and sex will inevitably evoke strong emotional responses from people. Most of the time such discussions will turn people off because most people are NOT like minded. However, for the like minded folks, they just might form a stronger bond. If you want more views, it's best to publish things your viewers want to see/read.

Problem with reporting the truth is that truth can often times hurt and make us feel uncomfortable. If you're in the business of publishing stuffs, you don't really want to publish things that'll make people uncomfortable, unless you can find somebody else to blame.

Just take reporting of climate issues for example. We don't want to blame ourselves contributing to the cause, but it's easier to just blame the extra carbon in the air and the conservatives who don't want to clean that up... or China for burning coal...

Anyway, mainstream media is just like GM. They need to make money. It doesn't pay to publish things that its viewers don't want to read/see. Their rich sponsors can also influence/limit them on the things that they can report. Can't blame them for wanting to end production of something that won't sell or don't want to sell.

Fortunately, we do have multiple sources of news.

Diversity is super important. I think different POVs gives us clearer picture of the world. If our government really does a great job running our country, Q, Trump, Sanders would never even be on the radar. If EU truly worked tirelessly to benefit all Europeans, nobody would want to exit. If our society is really that healthy to begin with, you'd not have to worry about Tesla Fanboys... or Christians or whatever other forms of fanaticism. Everything is action and reaction. We'll never be able to suppress anything. Just do our best and chill and hope things will damp down. Blaming or suppressing what we don't like will only make it bounce back harder. This is true from a psychological perspective as well. Whatever we suppress and don't like about ourselves, they just might bounce back harder when you're least expected.

[retsmah]

The end result of all of Twitter's fucking around with labeling news sources as "69% government funded" or whatever was that they removed all the labels, including the one I believe they were really wanting to get rid of at the beginning of all of that: the warnings on Russian government backed accounts (https://www.pcmag.com/news/twitter-lifts-restrictions-on-russian-government-backed-accounts).


Another little Twitter "free speech" story: Twitter has increased it's compliance with government censorship and information requests (https://www.forbes.com/sites/katherinehamilton/2023/04/27/twitter-has-complied-with-almost-every-government-request-for-censorship-since-musk-took-over-report-finds/) since Musk's takeover. Before Twitter fully complied with about 50% of requests, and is now at 80%. There wasn't a single request that they completely rejected, although in the past complete rejections have been pretty low (https://restofworld.org/2023/elon-musk-twitter-government-orders/), you'd only expect 5-10 complete rejections in this time period from the old twitter.

This is funny because it is what Musk made such a big deal about in his "Twitter Files". It's more profitable to just comply with all of the requests rather than to actually care about free speech and have someone review the requests.

[Rare White Ape]

I wonder if any of this jeopardised the continuation of potential government-funded contracts with SpaceX.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Statistics are certainly nice, but it'd really be better to know what our government is censoring now? Russian influencing our what? Or wear mask or not? Natural origin or lab leak? Vaccines work or not?

Will the government really censor folks bad mouthing Elon Musk or Jordan Peterson? I kinda doubt that.

It's also possible that perhaps certain personal info are being posted on twitter and it's good to hide those?

Anyway, context would be better than just data.

[Rare White Ape]

Wait until he realises that Chinese companies make good EVs in pretty much all segments!!

Do they make EVs that don’t get written off by insurance if you dare breathe on the front bumper?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42709679/tesla-insurance-fixes-expense/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3isOqaeMwbTKJoc4RNXs6dcYEZBvSptTNe-XU5zcXw4VSarFz9rcXy0JE&mibextid=uc01c0

Remember: EVs wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for our Lord and saviour Daddy Elon.

[retsmah]

For a while now I've been looking at swapping a Honda K series engine into my 1st gen MR2. I've spent a lot of time looking at wrecked K series cars, and sometimes I start looking at other possible engine swaps, but I never looked at Teslas. Turns out there's a bunch of totalled Teslas in my area, many with less than 20k miles!

I think I need to at least do a little research on how difficult that swap would be. I think Tesla's motors and batteries are pretty good, combine that performance with my 35 year old Toyota's door and sunroof seals and you could have something real fast and real dry inside!

[retsmah]

I wonder if any of this jeopardised the continuation of potential government-funded contracts with SpaceX.

It seems like there's occasionally been a little talk of concerns (https://gizmodo.com/elon-musk-twitter-biden-binance-cz-1850247437) about Elon's foreign influences, but so far I don't think anything that's actually gone anywhere.

[MR2 Fan]

For a while now I've been looking at swapping a Honda K series engine into my 1st gen MR2. I've spent a lot of time looking at wrecked K series cars, and sometimes I start looking at other possible engine swaps, but I never looked at Teslas. Turns out there's a bunch of totalled Teslas in my area, many with less than 20k miles!

I think I need to at least do a little research on how difficult that swap would be. I think Tesla's motors and batteries are pretty good, combine that performance with my 35 year old Toyota's door and sunroof seals and you could have something real fast and real dry inside!

I don't know if you've seen Hux Racing, but they've been doing MR2 builds and custom parts for....whew, close to 25 years as I knew them when I first got my MR2.

They're doing a Tesla swap, or have been, not sure if they've finished it but...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVjeSysPUn8

[retsmah]

Nice, I haven't seen that! They make the K series AW11 mounts I've been looking at as well.

...anyway, back to your scheduled Politics discussion! I'll make a separate thread about the MR2 if I start making progress on it!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interesting way to derail a thread! :D I actually look forward to that mr2! Good luck! :up:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Holy crap! All 9 of our supreme court justices pushed back on ethics oversight on themselves. Setting themselves apart from all other federal judges. This is a rare overwhelming bipartisan "ruling"... that they don't need no stinkin' oversight because they're so awesome. They will know voluntarily what's ethical and what's not, people beneath the supreme court should just get lost! :rolleyes:

Makes me wonder if we should just impeach them all and start over. Anyway, hope congress won't let them get away with this, especially for somebody with lifetime appointments.

[FaultyMario]

Dolph, Jerry and the dangers of militarism. (https://jacobin.com/2023/04/jerry-springer-the-defender-movie-war-on-terror-us-foreign-policy/)

A lecture well worth 5 minutes of your time, I reckon.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Great lecture that’d fall on deaf ears.

To be fair to American people, I don’t think we have any say regarding whether to take military action or not. Military industrial complex has a firm grip on both major parties.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Finally saw an interview of RFK jr. by ABC news.

I like his message very much; however, his face/demeanor/voice kinda turned me off though. I don't have a problem with his vaccine stance. If he's elected, I hope he'll reform our regulatory agencies so that people can trust them more, rather than seeing them corrupted by corporate money. If Boeing can corrupt FAA, are you guys really so sure that big pharmas will always be so trustworthy like our supreme court justices?

I am anti-vax when it comes to cats. Pet regulation is probably even looser compared to humans. There are numerous studies linking cancerous tumors at injection sites so that's why we avoid vaccines for our cats all together... the price we pay is that we never let our cats go outdoors. Since we can't lock our daughter indoors all the time, so of course we do vaccinate our daughter. Anyway, point is, I really don't think we should give thumbs up or down based on only on litmus tests. I don't need to agree with my candidate on every issue. I just need to know that I can trust that person.

Anyway, I'll likely sit out this presidential election. Without Bernie, I don't really feel inclined enough to vote for anybody. Yeah, Biden will probably be the least evil, and I hope he'll be able to last the full term because I really don't want Kamala. Then again, who knows, maybe she'll surprise us? No way I'd vote for her, so this might be her chance. ;)

Bernie is so damn old too. Once he kicks the bucket, I really don't know who else to vote for. :(

[MR2 Fan]

Random thought: I don't expect any movement on the Supreme Court Justice stuff from the democrats until after the 2024 election as they're probably afraid it will cost them (it most likely won't, but they get afraid of their own shadows)....maybe after that they can expand the court.

[neanderthal]

It's a huge fukn deal and they seem to saying "oh that, it ain't no thing!!!" Very aggravating.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Expanding a court who does not want oversight? There's overwhelming bipartisan push back against oversight of the court. Yes, democratic justices sided with Thomas!

Why would you want to expand such a cancerous court?

Wouldn't it be easier to just buy those justices to vote your way?

[21Kid]

Dammit. New reply is just CI, what a waste of time.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, that's what this forum does. I've certainly wasted a lot of time here... :p

[Rare White Ape]

Today I learned that a 5 year old song about being nice to people is too controversial for American school kids to sing.

Well I’m glad that the conservatives are protecting kids and not being divisive at all.

[Yw-slayer]

I am waiting to see how the extremists will try and take advantage of the fact that Lewis Hamilton drives in a rainbow helmet and in a team sponsored by Petronas.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Who cares what extremists think?

I do love seeing an ex-Nazi team hired a black race driver while chanting black lives matter! Lewis Hamilton has also shown the world that there's no white supremacy, at least not in the world of F-1 and most sports for that matter. There's just supremacy, when a superior driver drives a superior machine, best team wins!

Now, Hamilton was hired based on merit, not the color of his skin. However, can you imagine if F-1 teams are forced to also hire a non-white, non-male driver just to be politically correct? Even if it's not forced and the team purposefully want to give women drivers more opportunity... Would gender/race/sex orientation really benefit the sport if she/he/they could not get a faster lap time?

Just like paid drivers, I doubt that'll benefit the sport nor the team much.

It's strange that meritocracy used to be a liberal value. Dr. King stated that we ought not to judge a person by the color of his skin, but the content of his character! However, today, liberals tend to embrace identity politics... I suppose it's the same line of thinking as not tolerating those who are intolerant. Since they are being racists, so we are justified to be racist back at them.

Just saying there's no need to stoop down to the same low level as the stupid extremists.

[neanderthal]

So, ... I live about 5 minutes drive from the Allen mall where the recent shooting took place.

Thought exercise: What would happen if someone ran over a mass shooter with their truck/ car/ SUV?

[neanderthal]

So, ... I live about 5 minutes drive from the Allen mall where the recent shooting took place.

Thought exercise: What would happen if someone ran over a mass shooter with their truck/ car/ SUV?

Follow up thought exercise: And what would happen if said driver was black or brown or Muslim?

[FaultyMario]

depends on the caliber of the shooter's weapon, the mass of the vehicle used, and the ethnicity and the sequential order in which people are killed.

Kind of like the Peter Griffin / TSA meme, but with more variables.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Don't quite understand the purpose of that thought exercise. If I have a chance to run down an active mass shooter, I most definitely would. Doesn't matter what his/her/their identities nor affiliations are. Am I missing something? :?

[neanderthal]

Don't quite understand the purpose of that thought exercise. If I have a chance to run down an active mass shooter, I most definitely would. Doesn't matter what his/her/their identities nor affiliations are. Am I missing something? :?

Mr Hear me out, i'm gonna play devils advocate here and say definitively that Nazis and racists should be accepted and their viewpoints welcomed, doesn't <checks notes> ... "understand the purpose of the thought exercise?"

Yeah, you can fuck right off with the fauxgnorance.

[Tom Servo]

Similarly, I have a feeling we wouldn't be having this dilemma about a guy choking someone to death on the NY subway if the ethnicities had been reversed.

[Yw-slayer]

I sadly clicked "View Post" and saw "Who cares about what extremists think?"

Easy to say when you aren't a citizen of my country and your country's MSM covers it as a random outlier.

Remember the initial Ukraine war MSM coverage was "THESE REFUGEES LOOK LIKE US, THIS IS EUROPE AND MEANT TO BE A CIVILISED PLACE UNLIKE... *whoops*" Hmmm yes finish the sentence. Well done Billi's brainwashed bros.

[neanderthal]

Similarly, I have a feeling we wouldn't be having this dilemma about a guy choking someone to death on the NY subway if the ethnicities had been reversed.

Peep the GQP/ gun apologists talking about mental health when talking about the shooter in Allen, but contrast that to whatever they were saying about Jordan Neely just a few days before that.

[FaultyMario]

The shooter in Allen was a fucking neo-nazi who splattered the brains of a three year old child who was out with her parents celebrating her older brother's birthday.

Because that's what all neonazis want to do. Get rid of the others, regardless of their age.

[Crazed_Insanity]

There’s no question that there are still neonazis and racists, but to lump everyone who disagrees with you politically as Nazis is a bit too extreme.

Racism for sure also still exists, but I really think it’s improving. Otherwise there’d be no way Mercedes would hire a black driver. I think the bigger problem is money distorting things. If you’re rich enough, black man can get away with murdering your white wife! Naturally if you’re a homeless black man, then people will only come to your aid once you’re dead in order to score some political points? Anyway, police really should do something. You killed a person, there has to be some consequences.

You guys see these events as white oppressing the colored, I tend to see them more as rich oppressed the poor.

Being homeless definitely made you really poor. Even if you’re tagged as a well known Michael Jackson impersonator, the system will still manage to allow you to fall thru the crack and not able to get the help you need. As for mass shootings, root problem is the rich arms dealers. Blaming the Nazis probably won’t be as effective as blaming our failed (mental) healthcare system.

[Rare White Ape]

Peep the GQP/ gun apologists talking about mental health

The subtext of course being, "he can be a nice and peaceful neo-nazi if we just fix him by caring for him."

[Crazed_Insanity]

Everyone is fixable and redeemable, at least that’s what I believe in.

What the hell else are you gonna do otherwise?

[FaultyMario]

There’s no question that there are still neonazis and racists, but to lump everyone who disagrees with you politically as Nazis is a bit too extreme.


the motherfucker put a bullet thru the skull of a baby.
the motherfucker had a swastika tattooed on his chest.

And you're ready to defend his political opinions?

Ok.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I wasn’t defending the killer, I was defending people like me. People here are already thinking that I’m racist Neo Nazi sympathizer even before the shooting.

Racism is definitely one of the many problems that caused this tragedy, but not the only problem.

We couldn’t control our guns. We couldn’t sufficiently fund (mental) healthcare. We couldn’t end racism. So it’s probably easier to blame Nazis. However, how will that solve our mass shooting problems?

We blame the subway chokehold death on racism as well, which is also reasonable, but what would that accomplish? The kid was homeless and needed mental help. Nobody cared about him and his well being until he was killed by a ‘racist’.

Our society is not just racist, but also fucked up on many other levels was my point. Not trying to defend racism, but I just think we need to focus more on finding other more practical solutions.

Racism can be reversed with money as demonstrated by OJ Simpson. Mercedes can hire black driver and dominate a white sport! Nazis are not irreversible. Not defending Neo Nazis, but there’s no need to believe those people will forever be stuck that way. That shooter had issues even the army didn’t want to deal with. I doubt Nazism was the main reason army fired him. I also find it mind boggling that a person unfit to serve in the army is fit to purchase army's weapons. You really think the tattos are the problem? Tattos are definitely fucking annoying, but our system is way more fucked up! At the very minimum, if a person is unfit to carry a gun in the army, a person should be unfit to buy a gun too. This has to be the 1st step, which we've been reluctant to take one way or another. America has so many guns because of Nazis or because of 2nd A? No, we have so many guns and easy access to them because of the arms dealers and politicians bought by them.

[Yw-slayer]

https://twitter.com/abughazalehkat/status/1655781888190038019?s=08

I just leave here this fbi video on how to survive a mass shooting.

[retsmah]

Man that's bleak.

It also seems not very helpful or necessary, usually when people are explaining the 'flight or fight' response it's because it's a subconscious thing that is good for immediate physical threats, but can also get triggered by office conflicts and other mundane stuff that you might want to consciously think about. I don't think you really need it explained to you for the event that someone is shooting at you.

They did realistically show that even if there are armed police officers that randomly happen to be right outside the building when a shooting begins there will still be a bunch of dead people before they can do anything. Which is exactly what happened at the recent shooting in Texas. I think it's clear from the dashcam video of the texas mall shooting that even if every single person at the mall were carrying a gun there would have been 3-4 people dead before anyone even had a chance to react.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That's the same as watching instructional videos of losing cabin pressure or trying to exit the plane after emergency landing... I suppose they're some what helpful?

I'm not sure if I'll flight or fight or hide. Hope my brain can react appropriately in time.

One unfortunate thing after the subway incident is that if we choose to fight, we better make sure the mass shooter fires 1st until we try to fight and kill him. I think the conservative side is sympathetic to that ex-marine for preemptively neutralizing the situation. But left is upset because he used way too much 'force'! If we see a person holding a gun or pulling out a gun in public spaces, what should we do? That person could be an undercover cop! Anyway, best thing to do is to probably run or hide. If I'm sure I'm caught in a mass shooting incident, I might as well die trying to fight the guy rather than trying to run away. Yeah, if you fired shots at people, I'd run you over whether if you're black or white.

[neanderthal]

I wasn’t defending the killer, I was defending people like me. People here are already thinking that I’m racist Neo Nazi sympathizer even before the shooting.

Racism is definitely one of the many problems that caused this tragedy, but not the only problem.

We couldn’t control our guns. We couldn’t sufficiently fund (mental) healthcare. We couldn’t end racism. So it’s probably easier to blame Nazis. However, how will that solve our mass shooting problems?

We blame the subway chokehold death on racism as well, which is also reasonable, but what would that accomplish? The kid was homeless and needed mental help. Nobody cared about him and his well being until he was killed by a ‘racist’.

Our society is not just racist, but also fucked up on many other levels was my point. Not trying to defend racism, but I just think we need to focus more on finding other more practical solutions.

Racism can be reversed with money as demonstrated by OJ Simpson. Mercedes can hire black driver and dominate a white sport! Nazis are not irreversible. Not defending Neo Nazis, but there’s no need to believe those people will forever be stuck that way. That shooter had issues even the army didn’t want to deal with. I doubt Nazism was the main reason army fired him. I also find it mind boggling that a person unfit to serve in the army is fit to purchase army's weapons. You really think the tattos are the problem? Tattos are definitely fucking annoying, but our system is way more fucked up! At the very minimum, if a person is unfit to carry a gun in the army, a person should be unfit to buy a gun too. This has to be the 1st step, which we've been reluctant to take one way or another. America has so many guns because of Nazis or because of 2nd A? No, we have so many guns and easy access to them because of the arms dealers and politicians bought by them.

I call you a neo nazi and racist based on your posts in the very recent past.

The other things I call you, ... based on your posts. :assclown:

[Yw-slayer]

Someone here discussing mass shooting like it's an airplane safety video.

I might be exposed to an airplane safety incident at some point, but the likelihood that I will be exposed to a mass shooting is extremely low.

Of course, in 2019 no-one put out an instructional video to reduce the chances of not being beaten up by Billi's Brainwashed Bros. Instead, Billi's beloved politicians lauded them and claimed no violence etc.

Well done for decades of impressive Brainwashing and Soft Power!!

[Tom Servo]

I was thinking the other day that our mass shootings are so common now that nobody bothers to post to the Gun Control thread anymore. I thought about posting to it, but then realized it'd just be the same nonsense, which I think ultimately admits defeat.

A guy I follow on Twitter was saying that once we argued against gun control after a bunch of kids were massacred at Sandy Hook, we basically agreed as a nation that we do not care about people's lives as much as we care about them having access to guns.

I have an app on my phone that lets you listen to police scanners all over the place. I get notifications when a lot of people are listening to one specific scanner. Maybe every other day I get one about a mass shooting. It barely registers now.

So...yeah. This second amendment business rocks.

[Crazed_Insanity]

2A is a good excuse for them to expand their big business. I think it should be clear that after sandy hook, arms dealers have a stranglehold on most of our politicians!

Should public outrage really be directed at Nazis? What good will that do? Hitler’s long dead! Who else can we kill to end Nazism?

I really think outrage should be directed at gun dealers who sold to mass shooters. If everything is really legal and legit, then we need to get on the case of law makers. Did 2A really guaranteed the right for a man rejected by the army to be able to buy a rifle?

Lastly, a man unfit for the army, without healthcare, we should just let them buy guns and roam around in subways?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I call you a neo nazi and racist based on your posts in the very recent past.

The other things I call you, ... based on your posts. :assclown:

Call me whatever you want. Mischaracterize me how ever you wish. Hope that can at least help you feel better.

[Yw-slayer]

Ah, the last time I remember some people here (Billi's Brainwashed Bros) suggested they would like to eavesdrop on Police communications (but which it turned out they couldn't) was because they were figuring out where they should next move their weekly/daily riots to using the city's world-class transport infrastructure.

That was around the same time basically the same group of Billi's Brainwashed Bros got turfed out of the airport after they had forcefully occupied it for a few days causing massive chaos, beaten up and falsely imprisoned a reporter for a newspaper that they considered hostile to them, had an injunction obtained and served on them (while they shone hundreds of laser pointers at the eyes of the lawyer reading out the injunction) and then...

posted a long Chinese-language diatribe online (with lots of upvotes) claiming that their walk back along the highway to town was equivalent to how the British Army fled Dunkirk in the face of the Germans - with "supporting pictures" of their walk and that of the Dunkirk evacuation.

A lot of other stuff like that happened in 2019! Including attacks on the city's world-class transport infrastructure (because initially the same bunch used it to travel around and riot in different areas, including by evading fares, then got angry when the Police used it to travel around to prevent them rioting), judicial and government buildings, besieging Police stations for days on end including the headquarters, and even raiding, thrashing, and closing down dining and other outlets which the Brainwashed Bros somehow deiced were not entirely sympathetic to them due to the random comments of, for example, a minority shareholder in the holding company! Not to mention taking over 2 public universities to turn them into molotov cocktail factories (and the attendant major highways and roads)!!

But strangely enough, Billi's Bros and the UK media didn't mention a lot of these details! Everything was portrayed as REBEL ALLIANCE PEACEFUL PROTESTERS LEGITIMATE DEMANDS BLAH BLAH BLAH.

I even read an article in a Murdoch rag clearly suggesting that thousands of people attended a protest after a long day at work, trooping past the statue of Queen Victoria in the park that bears her name blah blah blah, even though the day in question was a public holiday!

HMMMM

ONE

WONDERS

WHY

[Rare White Ape]

China bad?

[MR2 Fan]

Wow, a sitting member of congress has been arrested (George Santos). So it can happen

https://twitter.com/ScottGustin/status/1656287520009732097

[Crazed_Insanity]

If China were so good, Taiwan would’ve married China by now. If Russia were so good, Ukraine would be taken over by now. If USA were so good, it’d stop creating , supporting and then pissing off dictators around the world so that they can sell arms all over the world pretending to be the good guy.

I think worse than arms dealers would be bankers. Often time they can be financing both sides of the war. Making profits regardless of who’s winning. Then make more money with reconstruction loan’s afterwards…

Nobody’s really that good.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow, a sitting member of congress has been arrested (George Santos). So it can happen

https://twitter.com/ScottGustin/status/1656287520009732097

About time!

It’s really mind boggling that the bar to buy guns and run for public office is just so damn low here.

[sandydandy]

Wow, a sitting member of congress has been arrested (George Santos). So it can happen

https://twitter.com/ScottGustin/status/1656287520009732097 Terrible way to treat a Vietnam vet. Or was it WWII?

:assclown:

[neanderthal]

Terrible way to treat a Vietnam vet. Or was it WWII?

:assclown:

Well done. But you got it wrong; he's a war hero, not just a vet!

[neanderthal]

I was thinking the other day that our mass shootings are so common now that nobody bothers to post to the Gun Control thread anymore. I thought about posting to it, but then realized it'd just be the same nonsense, which I think ultimately admits defeat.

A guy I follow on Twitter was saying that once we argued against gun control after a bunch of kids were massacred at Sandy Hook, we basically agreed as a nation that we do not care about people's lives as much as we care about them having access to guns.

I have an app on my phone that lets you listen to police scanners all over the place. I get notifications when a lot of people are listening to one specific scanner. Maybe every other day I get one about a mass shooting. It barely registers now.

So...yeah. This second amendment business rocks.

Last night as I was walking, i came to the conclusion that nothing would ever happen about mass shootings until the families of the politicians were the ones getting shot. Their kids schools their churches, the synagogues, the athletic events, galas, balls, sporting events, golf clubs, the places where they gather and mingle. We will only ever see action on gun control when the politicians are the ones getting affected.

And now the Secret Service will be after me for writing that down.

[Yw-slayer]

China bad?

There's one person on this board who would automatically say that.

It's not me or you.

HMMM ONE WONDERS WHO

[Crazed_Insanity]

Clearly RWA was the one who actually wrote that and then you're still wondering about Billi? :lol:

Also, clearly you cannot tell the difference between China and Chinese Communist Party. I have never called China bad, just the regime. CCP can disappear and China would still exist. China's problem is not China itself. China's problem is that it now has an emperor again. It's fine if China has a good emperor/king, Jesus is a good king, but more often than not, absolute power tend to corrupt regular human beings so that means more Chinese people will suffer.

It is not because of the US that Tibetans and the Taiwanese don't want to be part of China. If the CCP were really good to them, I'm sure they'll be happy to be part of China.

Anyway, back to mass shootings, I doubt a single lawmaker getting hit by a mass shooter would make much of a difference. Why? Because most other lawmakers are still corrupted by gun lobbyist money and can always hide behind 2A to justify selling guns.

Gun makers do not want more oversight just like our supreme court justices don't want more oversight if they can continue to get away with it.

There needs to be a bipartisan outrage directed at them in order to force change. Unfortunately at this stage, we're just angry at people on the other side. As long as democrats stay anger at republicans and republicans stay angry at democrats and left gets angry at Nazis and the right stays angry at immigrants, they have no motivation to make any changes because they can continue making money as usual. Some of their own families could be shot to death by mass shootings, but lawmakers as a collective would still be unable to make any meaningful change because lobbyists already have a chokehold on majority of our politicians. Voters don't really have much of a chokehold on these politicians. They'll have no real choice anyways. No voter would want to vote somebody out of office and risk allowing candidate of the OTHER party take over...

In a divided states of America, we all fall together.

[sandydandy]

Well done. But you got it wrong; he's a war hero, not just a vet! Trudeau.

[JSGeneral]

Last night as I was walking, i came to the conclusion that nothing would ever happen about mass shootings until the families of the politicians were the ones getting shot. Their kids schools their churches, the synagogues, the athletic events, galas, balls, sporting events, golf clubs, the places where they gather and mingle. We will only ever see action on gun control when the politicians are the ones getting affected.

And now the Secret Service will be after me for writing that down.

I share your sentiment neanderthal; however, Steve Scalise might disagree with you on that one.

[FaultyMario]

https://www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/d/demarcuscousins/1113828/demarcuscousins1-2x.jpg


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fvy04pHWYAMr3HN.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

God usually will help His faithful soldiers win these battles too. I'd be very impressed if George Santos can win anymore battles.

One thing people need to bear in mind is that God also doesn't usually raise His soldiers up by asking them to lie about themselves. God may appear to be a liar about the future like calling Abraham father of multitudes when he has no children at the time, but God would never want people to lie about their past. Abraham did say plenty of lies, but his lying words certainly didn't gain blessings from God.

Anyway, do you really think it's fair to make God or believers look bad because of George Santos?

Would you also attempt to make the gay community look bad because of George Santos?

He's a liar. That should be that and that's it.

[neanderthal]

I share your sentiment neanderthal; however, Steve Scalise might disagree with you on that one.

Which goes to show just how fucked up their allegiance is to the gun industry.

I don't wish a mass shooting on anyone, but the GOP/ NRA conventions, I wouldn't be too bothered to be honest.

[retsmah]

Our buddy Elon has been using his media platform to spread lies (https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2023-05-10/elon-musks-tweets-about-texas-mall-gunman-spread-misleading-claims-question-shooters-background) about the Allen TX mall shooter.

The conservative response to this is really something. Guy with nazi tattoos who has been posting nazi stuff online shoots a bunch of people. Conservatives distance themselves from him not because of that stuff, but because he's Hispanic.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/3399098e113a5750d677a57ad140a930/dc42c95f4fb80134-52/s540x810/c9b5278d07bf9fd5b40ede5a1241fbb45dff9f8c.jpg (https://pinkwug.live/comics/self-report)

[Crazed_Insanity]

At least they’re distancing themselves from the shooter. I’d be really scared if Elon and the conservatives were praising and embracing the dead shooter.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna83568

The guy is clearly a nut. Army didn’t feel comfortable giving him rifle training and sent him on his away before completing 3 months training… he also believed no psychologist could help him.

Not sure about his family background, but a guy who army couldn’t even love, couldn’t get laid, don’t think anyone could help him…

Do you guys really think Nazis and Elon Musk are the core problem? If we could silence Nazis, send Elon back to Africa, USA would’ve been just fine?

Anyway, like I said earlier, it’d be scarier if Elon and conservatives didn’t distance themselves. Now at least we can say that they’re such racists to think that a Latino can’t be a white supremacist.

[Tom Servo]

Our buddy Elon has been using his media platform to spread lies (https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2023-05-10/elon-musks-tweets-about-texas-mall-gunman-spread-misleading-claims-question-shooters-background) about the Allen TX mall shooter.

The conservative response to this is really something. Guy with nazi tattoos who has been posting nazi stuff online shoots a bunch of people. Conservatives distance themselves from him not because of that stuff, but because he's Hispanic.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/3399098e113a5750d677a57ad140a930/dc42c95f4fb80134-52/s540x810/c9b5278d07bf9fd5b40ede5a1241fbb45dff9f8c.jpg (https://pinkwug.live/comics/self-report)

It is wild. This should have been a layup for them. "It's not the guns, it's this dangerous Neo-Nazi ideology!" but instead it was this attempt to claim he wasn't really a Neo-Nazi.

It's also bonkers seeing Elon get radicalized in real time. Only a couple of days ago he's joined in on the "it's not guns, it's all these black people!" train.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Can you show me where is that train and when Elon went on board?

Are there really people blaming America's gun problems on blacks?

As far as I know, Elon does want tighter gun control.

[neanderthal]

Interesting video (https://youtu.be/xgXda61MtWE) on economics in the US.

[FaultyMario]

I heard that people over at CNN are still in shock that a member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party threatened them with eating their faces and then proceeded to eat their faces on live television.

[JoeW]

I urge you all to watch Season 1 Episode 4 of The Problem With John Stewart on Apple TV. It’s about gun control and is a very good episode.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Too bad I don't have Apple TV! :p However, I'm sure Jon Stewart and the guests had some interesting discussions... Based on episode intro, sounds like they're trying figure out who are the 'bad' guys? Perhaps we don't need to draw a line at what 'bad' is, but draw a line at where competency is? If Army can't work with a guy, this guy probably shouldn't be allowed to buy a gun.


Interesting video (https://youtu.be/xgXda61MtWE) on economics in the US.
Yep, that was kinda cool. I think Bernie Sander's existence is mostly due to Reagonomics? Anyway, to be somewhat fair to Friedman, I do agree that voluntary interactions between consumers and businesses often produce results superior to those crafted by government decree. Government regulators should protect consumer by forcing Boeing to make safer planes, but I don't think government should mandate Boeing to make electric planes in the name of saving the planet. Give tax credits to encourage research and development, sure, but forcing companies to do something is probably not the right way to go. Even our going to the moon project was kind of half encouragement and half mandate... in the end it was mission accomplished, but it's obvious now that it wasn't really all that sustainable. Thankfully we won the cold war, so at least that objective was achieved...

Anyway, problem is that love of money can turn everyone bad. Obviously we don't want to give more money to the rich. However, we probably don't need to give the poor a sense of entitlement too. Social safety net programs should just be safety nets. People shouldn't be living on the net the whole time especially if they're capable of working. We need to have living wage jobs. If we really need UBI as supplemental income to help lower income folks to make living wages, that's fine, but I don't think it's good for us to have UBI pay for everything in our lives. Also, besides evil corporate bosses, union leaders could also be corrupted by money as well, not to mention government regulators and our politicians.

When our supreme court justices think that they don't need oversight and they think they are ethical thanks to the vague existing laws..., then we know our society is now kinda fucked up.

[Tom Servo]

In his quest to turn Twitter into a bastion of free speech, it appears Elon's removed a ton of things that were meant to keep some content out of search suggestions. That's lead to searches for "dog" and "cat" to immediately suggest horrific animal cruelty videos. I have not seen the videos, but even the descriptions have left me feeling nauseous, which is why I will not be repeating them here. You can find plenty of people talking about them if you want to know what they were, but if you're like me and love animals, I highly suggest that you do not.

After at least eight days of attempting to report this to Twitter (and Twitter responding with solely a poop emoji, as per Elon's request), they just frantically shut down all search results.

If that dipshit could just shut the fuck up and listen for half a second, he might stop stepping on rakes and making the same mistakes that other people have made. But now, as I think someone put it best, he's stepped right into the "rotten.com only with algorithms" rake.

[retsmah]

The marine that killed the homeless man on the NY Subway has been charged with manslaughter (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/11/nyregion/daniel-penny-charges-jordan-neely-subway-death.html).

Going back to this:



It's also bonkers seeing Elon get radicalized in real time. Only a couple of days ago he's joined in on the "it's not guns, it's all these black people!" train.

As far as I can tell Elon has since deleted his tweet, but the claim is basically that the media only reports on white on black crime (https://popular.info/p/elon-musks-obsession-with-anti-white?utm_source=substack&publication_id=1664&post_id=120171628&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=false), and that's biased because there's more black on white crime.

Aside from whether that is even true or not, it totally misses the point. The subway killing is not important to report because one white guy killed one black guy, it's because he did it in public with witnesses and the police just let him go. Without the public outrage and media focus he would have never faced any charges. I think most of us also have a strong suspicion that if the situation were reversed, and a black man killed a white ex-marine for yelling at people, the police very likely would have arrested him. I remember this incident which featured a marine being much more violent (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmqq_bGKHtE) than what we've heard about the NYC subway guy, but in that case the military guys that show up to restrain him are quite a bit more reasonable in their use of force.


Sort of related, Elon "Truth Seeking-AI" Musk claims that Twitter's community notes are the solution to misinformation. But as in the above tweet he makes a post, that information goes to hundreds of millions of people, then he deletes it when it starts getting negative feedback, before any community notes can correct it.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, I think that's the thing that triggered it, but then he just started repeating all sorts of long debunked claims that black people commit more crime, to the tunes of millions of views. It's the same radicalization pipeline we've seen a million times that sites like the Daily Stormer have basically perfected, starting their shit there or 4chan and eventually having it trickle down, without any critical eye looking at it, until you've got people like Tucker Carlson or now Elon Musk repeating it as though it's legit.

[Tom Servo]

Aside from whether that is even true or not, it totally misses the point. The subway killing is not important to report because one white guy killed one black guy, it's because he did it in public with witnesses and the police just let him go. Without the public outrage and media focus he would have never faced any charges.

I feel like this is an important point that a lot of the right also misses with the "Black Lives Matter" vs. the "Blue Lives Matter" thing. In both cases, I think it could me made more clear to the dopier among us if ", too" were added, but it shouldn't need to be.

When a police officer is killed, it's on the news for days. There are helicopters covering the motorcade laying the officer to rest. We all recognize it's a bad thing, and we feel terrible for the officer who was killed and for their family. It's literally a news event.

On the other hand, when a black person is killed in South LA, often it doesn't make the news at all.

That's the point. We already acknowledge as a society that "blue lives matter." We do so more than we do pretty much any other group save firefighters. That doesn't need attention, the attention is already there. The idea is to call attention to lives that often just get completely ignored, and to say that they matter.

In this case, even in the worst descriptions of what Neely was doing or had done, none of it was worthy of execution.

I wish I could find the essay I read after this, but SEO has ruined everything. It's that Neely was an example of what we have done wrong with society. That he was the result of our choices of what's right and just, and that our discomfort should be how we feel about the choices we've made, not about him. We've decided to destroy a lot of the safety net, we've decided to defund services, and it's our failings laid bare in front of us. And our failings as a society led to him being summarily executed not by the state, but by some random guy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I still think you guys are placing way too much emphasis on race. Thus making it difficult to solve actual problems.

Think of it this way, if a rich person were to die versus a very poor person dying, which will get more publicity?

If racism is really more serious than wealthism, then a rich Black Death would receive less coverage than poor white death… reality is that we need a slogan for ‘poor lives matter’!

Anyway, I like the addition of ‘too’ for Black Lives Matter. If that were included initially, it would make ‘all lives matter too’ very very silly! ;)

[Yw-slayer]

Whoop whoop

[Tom Servo]

I dunno if we need another thread for the things Elon's up to, but...

A friend of mine is Turkish and messaged about the elections there. By his take, Erdogan is likely to not win, but that the opposition is unlikely to get a 50% majority leading to a runoff in two weeks, which he is worried gives Erdogan time to come up with a scheme to retain control.

Free speech absolutist Elon Musk decided to comply with Erdogan's demands that opposition posts be censored from Twitter. He's defended it as "well, is it better if only some Twitter is banned vs. all of it?"

It seems like a basic tenet of freedom of speech that you don't say "well, sure, we'll silence some voices to make sure the other ones still get full reach", but Elon has described criticism of his choice as "having your brains fall out of your head."

Interestingly, Turkey's space program has contracts with SpaceX. It's feeling like "free speech absolutism" is more "free speech relativism."

[FaultyMario]

Jordan Neely's gofundme has eighty two thousand dollars pledged.
Daniel Penny's defense fund has 1.3 million dollars.



Amerikkka, Fuck Yeah!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Elon has finally done it. Twitter is gone! :p

https://www.thestreet.com/investing/elon-musk-just-murdered-twitter-and-heres-why-he-did-it?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

I think it's clear now that 'free speech' was not the real reason why he bought Twitter. He bought it for his X Corp., which will supposedly be the everything everywhere app! The only thing I'm hoping for is that he'll make bitcoin more user friendly. US dollars definitely should NOT be the only reserve currency of the world.



It’s easy to tell that free speech wasn’t the real reason. Elon is ultimately a businessman. When necessary, he’ll cater to the Republicans. He will likely bend over for the chinese communists too. Whatever it takes to protect his companies.

That’s the part of him I don’t admire as much, but at least that helps his companies survive and thrive. Unlike the real Tesla, ended up cheated by other business folks…

Anyway, what he did at Turkey definitely won’t look good though.

[Rare White Ape]

Everyone:

Pleeeease stop referring to Elon Musk as Elon. Yes, it's his first name, but it is an informal title that would be used if you were friends with him.

Nobody here is friends with Elon Musk.

Just call him Musk, same way as we call Donald Trump, Trump.

Another very very very very good reason is that it makes you sound like someone who's incessantly fawning to the guy. "Elon! I love youuuuuu!" You sound like one of the fuckwits on Twitter to goes into defence for the billionaire as though his and your life each depend on it.

A third reason: I just hate the sound of his name, or reading it.

Twists or joke names like 'Elno' are acceptable tho.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Jordan Neely's gofundme has eighty two thousand dollars pledged.
Daniel Penny's defense fund has 1.3 million dollars.



Amerikkka, Fuck Yeah!

It’s really difficult to truly understand why this is… one can come up with whatever explanations that sound plausible.

1) America has way more hateful Nazis than people who truly cared about a homeless black victim?

2) maybe funerals just cost less than a legal team?

3) left just want to use Neely to make their political statement and don’t really want to give money to a homeless persons family? This is possible because I’ve seen hidden cameras showing that conservative Texans would come to defense of a gay family being harassed by waitress, but liberal New Yorker diners would all mind there own business and just see no evil hear no evil…

Anyway, I tend to think #2 is probably closest to the truth.

[Yw-slayer]

You could call him Elun.

We call most asshole Tesla drivers here (of which there are many as they constitute most Ubers) Teslun.

Lun is Cantonese slang for Penis/dickhead.

[Rare White Ape]

Heh, I like that!

So for example someone named Mick would be affixed as ‘Micklun’? Is that how it works?

[Yw-slayer]

Sort of, yeah. Obviously it works best when the name has an L in it. That way you just sub the rest of it (or that syllable) with Lun.

It just works really well with his name and for many HK Tesla drivers.

[retsmah]

I'm kinda partial to Elno as a misspelling.

I really like the take of "well, is it better if only some Twitter is banned vs. all of it?" Buddy, that's what censorship is.

I had posted a story earlier about how under new management Twitter has essentially started complying with all government censorship requests, there is a detail in there that a big chunk of those come from Turkey.

[Tom Servo]

I would be shocked if me referring to him as "Elon" would leave anybody confused as to whether or not I think he sucks. I'll try to remember though.

[neanderthal]

In his quest to turn Twitter into a bastion of free speech, it appears Elon's removed a ton of things that were meant to keep some content out of search suggestions. That's lead to searches for "dog" and "cat" to immediately suggest horrific animal cruelty videos. I have not seen the videos, but even the descriptions have left me feeling nauseous, which is why I will not be repeating them here. You can find plenty of people talking about them if you want to know what they were, but if you're like me and love animals, I highly suggest that you do not.

After at least eight days of attempting to report this to Twitter (and Twitter responding with solely a poop emoji, as per Elon's request), they just frantically shut down all search results.

If that dipshit could just shut the fuck up and listen for half a second, he might stop stepping on rakes and making the same mistakes that other people have made. But now, as I think someone put it best, he's stepped right into the "rotten.com only with algorithms" rake.

I'm now convinced that he bought Twitter to affect the Presidential vote in later this year.

The billionaires own the government but not the voters. So they bought the media. Which stopped reporting news and just parroted events. People flocked to mass media to disseminate news and information and now he's bought the the biggest exponent of that.

[2ndMoparMan]

Everyone:

Pleeeease stop referring to Elon Musk as Elon. Yes, it's his first name, but it is an informal title that would be used if you were friends with him.

Nobody here is friends with Elon Musk.

Just call him Musk, same way as we call Donald Trump, Trump.

Another very very very very good reason is that it makes you sound like someone who's incessantly fawning to the guy. "Elon! I love youuuuuu!" You sound like one of the fuckwits on Twitter to goes into defence for the billionaire as though his and your life each depend on it.

A third reason: I just hate the sound of his name, or reading it.

Twists or joke names like 'Elno' are acceptable tho.

How about we call it Fucking Cunt and be done with it?

[MR2 Fan]

fElon?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm now convinced that he bought Twitter to affect the Presidential vote in later this year.

The billionaires own the government but not the voters. So they bought the media. Which stopped reporting news and just parroted events. People flocked to mass media to disseminate news and information and now he's bought the the biggest exponent of that.

Kinda doubt Mr. Musk is the pioneer of using media to influence votes.

I really don’t think he’d waste money trying to influence votes.

The guy wouldn’t even pay for ads to influence buyers to buy his products!

Also, consider his net worth and the amount of political contributions, he’s hardly the most influential billionaire in DC.

I personally like him because he has no political ambitions. Trump switched party because it was easier to win the GOP ticket. Elon switched because Biden admin and CA Governor pissed him off. He just wants to build stuffs. If it means going to Texas or China? So be it.

[Rare White Ape]

How about we call it Fucking Cunt and be done with it?

I'm on board.

[Rare White Ape]

I'm now convinced that he bought Twitter to affect the Presidential vote in later this year.

Those Qatari and Saudi Arabian investors who fronted the money better be happy with the outcome.

[Yw-slayer]

I'm kinda partial to Elno as a misspelling.

I can see that that term probably clearly gets your distaste across to English-speakers who know who Elmo is, and who dislike him.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I like Elmo! :)

[FaultyMario]

Those Qatari and Saudi Arabian investors who fronted the money better be happy with the outcome.

Goes to show how "the world's richest" are only so because the world most powerful will allow it.

[Yw-slayer]

Hey man, guess what happens when money comes out of the ground.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Once we don't need fossil fuel anymore, money will also cease to come out of the ground. Well, I suppose we can always mine some other things?


Goes to show how "the world's richest" are only so because the world most powerful will allow it.

That's true, but I think money and power feed off of each other. Biden and CA have began to restrict Tesla and SpaceX so naturally Elno needed to migrate over to the republicans to help continue to expand his businesses. Of course even liberal politicians will need money. Nobody can hold on to power indefinitely. Surely there are plenty of rich folks influencing the dems to bring down Elno? Rich people do not all work together.

Anyway, as Elno Must make deals with the politicians, Turks, Saudis, Chinese, etc... He will ultimately become more and more like any other business man/politician I think.

Then perhaps I will like Elno less and less. :(

I already like him less, just don't hate him as much as you guys.

Of all the rich folks in the world, I'd prefer having more folks like Elno, than some oil baron or folks on Jeff Epstein's list.

Folks like Bezo's ex-wife and Warran buffet are nice too, but the thing is they don't really produce anything though. However, at least they don't take things away from the poor and do bless others with their wealth.

What really gets me is that in today's climate, as long as a person fails whatever litmus test, he goes on a shit list. People are either racist, hateful, neo-nazis or evil woke virus infected socialists/communists...

[Yw-slayer]

Imagine being the target of vilification of the most widespread, most sustained, and most overwhelming, English-language propaganda campaign ever carried out in the history of the world.

That's right, you guys have to imagine it as you don't actually know what it's like. Lol

[21Kid]

What exactly are you talking about YW? Sorry, I've just been skimming this thread.

Like most Americans, I'm ill-informed about world politics. And apparently, I won't be able to find it on my US news sources anyway?

[neanderthal]

I think he's talking about people from the middle east, especially those of a particular religious bent. More specifically the leaders who were excoriated in the press and asssasinated. One from Egypt and one from Iraq. I'll let you fill in the rest of the blanks for yourself.

[neanderthal]

Um, wouldn't it be easier to just raise the minimum wage? (https://www.businessinsider.com/colorado-bill-would-allow-walmart-mcdonalds-employees-to-accept-tips-2023-5#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16842800925776&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fc olorado-bill-would-allow-walmart-mcdonalds-employees-to-accept-tips-2023-5)


I mean, these are the people who can do it, right? Enact some sort of living wage bill.

[Rare White Ape]

I think he's talking about people from the middle east, especially those of a particular religious bent. More specifically the leaders who were excoriated in the press and asssasinated. One from Egypt and one from Iraq. I'll let you fill in the rest of the blanks for yourself.

Might actually be talking about China. The Arabs have only been a major target for about 22 years. “China bad” has been going on for over a century.

[neanderthal]

Um, wouldn't it be easier to just raise the minimum wage? (https://www.businessinsider.com/colorado-bill-would-allow-walmart-mcdonalds-employees-to-accept-tips-2023-5#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16842800925776&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fc olorado-bill-would-allow-walmart-mcdonalds-employees-to-accept-tips-2023-5)


I mean, these are the people who can do it, right? Enact some sort of living wage bill.

The longer I live the more radical I become it seems. With the housing shortage we have right now, we should be taxing the ever loving fuck out of homes that are owned and rented out as income. I'm heavily invested in a bunch of REITs (Real Estate Investment Trust) and that income, imo should be taxed like fuck!!!

I'm becoming very "nothing, that we *need* to survive, should be sold at profit." By that I mean considerable profit. Food, water, shelter, healthcare, education. Should be sold at cost/ minimal profit or be taxed to high heavenly fuck and back.

[Tom Servo]

What exactly are you talking about YW? Sorry, I've just been skimming this thread.

Like most Americans, I'm ill-informed about world politics. And apparently, I won't be able to find it on my US news sources anyway?

YW vastly overestimates how much the general US media talks about China. Every once in a while he drops something like that but he's always referencing some obscure article from a clickbaity website.

In fairness, he might be right when it comes to places like Fox News, Newsmax, etc, but Fox News is the only "major" US news media I can think of that harps on China as much as he thinks they do.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think US military presence all around China speaks louder than any mainstream media.

This is very similar play book as with russia/Ukraine. Clearly Putin and Xi are not good guys, but US and the west are not the good guys either. Openly/covertly provoking those dictators by fanning the flames in Ukraine and Taiwan.

Ukrainians and Taiwanese are like the democrats at home. Always need to fight for their rights and their survival. US politicians usually pretend to be sympathetic and will only give them enough to keep fighting but not actually winning. For it’s better to have the two of them busy fighting each other. Plus, it’s profitable to sell the weapons and help them rebuild what they destroyed…

[Yw-slayer]

Not necessarily just the US media in the US, but almost all English language agencies and govts. Perhaps you guys don't feel or see it because you're not squarely in the crosshairs and it doesn't impact anything you do in your lives? Presumably none of you know anyone who has been sanctioned or who is under threat of being sanctioned?

The volume of reports is one thing, but there is a "China bad" angle that govt and msm seem pathologically compelled to run. Check out the recent "RED THREAT" articles by the SMH and The Age. You may say disregard the Murdoch press. How many people actually do that? Even if you do, wouldn't a constantly negative refrain/underlying attitude (often used as an attempt at comparison) affect perception?

Anyway, choose from the topic du week of warmongering/fearmongering!!!

"TAIWAN INVASION THREAT"
"IS TAIWAN NEXT UKRAINE" (no)
"HUAWEI SECURITY CONCERNS = LECTURING COUNTRIES IN THE SOUTH"
"STOLEN TECHNOLOGY"
"DEBT TRAP DIPLOMACY"
"ONLY DOING IT FOR CLOUT" (yes as if everyone else only does it because they are saints? Get real)
"CONCENTRATION CAMPS/GENOCIDE/ETHNIC CLEANSING"
"ERODING FREEDOMS AND LIBERTY = SANCTIONS JUSTIFIED"
The old chestnut "ACHIEVEMENT BUT AT WHAT COST AND/OR WHY? = IMPLICATIONS OF SOMETHING SINISTER AND/OR ALL NOT QUITE RIGHT BEHIND SCENES"
"SINGAPORE OVERTAKING HONG KONG" etc.
"FREEDOM OF NAVIGATION EXERCISES"
"NATO EXPAND INTO PACIFIC/QUAD/AUKUS FOR SECURITY BECAUSE WILL BE INVADED"

It may be that some people here have enough brains to look beyond certain sources, behind the headlines, and consider the motives (which may not necessarily be bad faith) and biases of the authors and institutions. But can you honestly say that that is the case for most people who are subjected to a barrage of repeated and sustained negative/threatmongering news?

[FaultyMario]

Eating cat food out of a can and living in a tent behind an outback.

[Rare White Ape]

See, here's my opinion on China (an Australian perspective, coming from a westerner who lives closer to its shadow than other westerners, but not as close as someone who actually lives there, and my opinion is ever evolving anyway as I am constantly thinking critically about all things, so take it with a grain of salt):

Militarily/strategically: It's right to deal with China using a firm hand, but you have to be realistic about it. No military threats would ever come off well against a country as large and powerful as that. The past 10 years of government in Australia made a mistake my enacting a populist strategy of withdrawing foreign aid to south pacific countries, which allowed China to expand its roots somewhat to these tiny nations. The last 12 months of Australian government have basically reversed this and now the south pacific is no longer as much of an attractive venue for Chinese military and economic expansion. Australia would surely be considered a frontline of Western defence against China, which means it is expendable because the rest of the western world has the benefit of large oceans or overland continents to separate it from South-east Asia. India, a western ally, would fare better, but I don't see India having too much trouble with China. Also it is difficult to send tanks to India by sea, and it is very hilly at the border. Japan would stay out of it entirely.

Economically: Having said the above, it will always be of benefit to engage with the Chinese government in a productive manner. No sanctions, just business as usual, as its true power over the rest of the world is not through its physical threat. It comes from the ability to produce goods cheaply and not screw up anyone else's economy by making them find all that stuff for a higher price. I said many moons ago that any invasion of Taiwan would be a shot in China's own foot, because where else would China source its microprocessors for Windows desktops, missiles, and Huawei mobile phones? Literally, the global economy would die harder than it did due to COVID. There's really no point in strong-arming China economically. You can kind-of get away with it for Russia, because they really only export natural gas to Europe. Being cold in winter is bad for many eastern European people, but that isn't an unsolvable crisis. But take away our computer chips and we're all fuckey-doodled for a long time.

Socially: Give it time, and being nice to China might actually allow it to open up and lift a lot of the restrictions it has against its own people. China has a long and well-documented streak of human rights abuses (if you're allowed to document such a thing within the Great Firewall of China), but being aggressive will not fix this. I feel the current tech-savvy generation of 20-30 year olds in China will lead the charge here. Give it 20 years, as it's literally the least destructive way to promote increased individual freedoms in China.

Environmentally: Yes, China is a big polluter. Fixing this comes down to economic factors above all else. We are doing the right thing by passing laws which limit greenhouse emissions, as this will make the tech cheaper and more ubiquitous. Once again, don't force China into anything! We can lead the way using other means. If the rest of the world reaches a point where it is able to stop harming the environment, and it is able to give leeway for other much poorer countries like those in Africa to continue emitting small amounts of pollution in order to save their economies, then maybe we can think about a unilateral global agreement which involves China as a partner in global reduction of environmental harm.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not necessarily just the US media in the US, but almost all English language agencies and govts. Perhaps you guys don't feel or see it because you're not squarely in the crosshairs and it doesn't impact anything you do in your lives? Presumably none of you know anyone who has been sanctioned or who is under threat of being sanctioned?

The volume of reports is one thing, but there is a "China bad" angle that govt and msm seem pathologically compelled to run. Check out the recent "RED THREAT" articles by the SMH and The Age. You may say disregard the Murdoch press. How many people actually do that? Even if you do, wouldn't a constantly negative refrain/underlying attitude (often used as an attempt at comparison) affect perception?

Anyway, choose from the topic du week of warmongering/fearmongering!!!

"TAIWAN INVASION THREAT"
"IS TAIWAN NEXT UKRAINE" (no)
"HUAWEI SECURITY CONCERNS = LECTURING COUNTRIES IN THE SOUTH"
"STOLEN TECHNOLOGY"
"DEBT TRAP DIPLOMACY"
"ONLY DOING IT FOR CLOUT" (yes as if everyone else only does it because they are saints? Get real)
"CONCENTRATION CAMPS/GENOCIDE/ETHNIC CLEANSING"
"ERODING FREEDOMS AND LIBERTY = SANCTIONS JUSTIFIED"
The old chestnut "ACHIEVEMENT BUT AT WHAT COST AND/OR WHY? = IMPLICATIONS OF SOMETHING SINISTER AND/OR ALL NOT QUITE RIGHT BEHIND SCENES"
"SINGAPORE OVERTAKING HONG KONG" etc.
"FREEDOM OF NAVIGATION EXERCISES"
"NATO EXPAND INTO PACIFIC/QUAD/AUKUS FOR SECURITY BECAUSE WILL BE INVADED"

It may be that some people here have enough brains to look beyond certain sources, behind the headlines, and consider the motives (which may not necessarily be bad faith) and biases of the authors and institutions. But can you honestly say that that is the case for most people who are subjected to a barrage of repeated and sustained negative/threatmongering news?

China was largely ignored by the West of the world until Nixon.

The strategy was to turn it ‘around’ using capitalism rather than having a great big North Korean like nation in Asia…

But of course things didn’t quite change as expected.

Anyway, I really wish the West hasn’t been messing around the world like this. Carving things out with China and Taiwan, north and South Korea, India and Pakistan… to be fair, they carved out Germany too. From a nation's perspective, if you are smart, you probably don’t want ‘outsiders’ to carve you up and weaken you like that. Germans are definitely not dumb.

East and west Germany also didn’t reunite by military force…. Forcible reunifications are dumb too. I personally don't think US civil war was worth it. Paying such a high price for what? Although Lincoln preserved the 'union', we still have a divided states of America today. You can't force these things. People will always hold a grudge.

If China stops making such threats, it'd also not give US excuses to move aircraft carriers near the region.

If China didn’t do those other things, there’d also be nothing to report.

Anyway, both China and US are not doing much good. (With respect to well being of average folks.)

We just need to get used to the negative press attacks. Take them as constructive criticisms or just ignore them as baseless attacks. Readers are not really that stupid and couldn't tell them apart. Those refuse to tell them apart are only driven by their own political bias. This happens all over the world. We ignore the shortcomings of our own political party and pound on the smallest issues of the opposition party. It's not just China receiving this kind of treatment.

[FaultyMario]

Yeah, They should learn, or We could teach them (https://archive.org/details/peaceonearth1939_202107).

[Crazed_Insanity]

It'd be incredibly arrogant to assume the teacher position when there are no students signing up to your class. For those wish to seek, sure, we should offer to teach and help. The problem with US is that we take the arrogant approach, then naturally others don't really want your teachings from your high horse.

Without high horses, I do believe everyone can be in a position to learn. Even US has a lot to learn. Even Albert Einstein can have plenty to learn if he's alive!

For China, she learned communism. Is it really any good? China is only communist in name only IMHO. China has the advantage of learning from Russian's mistakes I think. Communism didn't really work out. Dictatorship likely also wouldn't work out. (Or perhaps communism/socialism could work out but we just can't have dictators? Dictators guarantees that he'll screw everything up eventually.)

I just hope China won't repeat Russian's mistakes. China adapted and not only avoided a collapse like USSR, but actually thrived! Hopefully China can also learn to get rid of its dictator before it runs into serious trouble. It's seriously unwise for a nation to engage in wars hot or cold against the US. Hope Chinese people can learn from that mistake. Of course there are lots of problems US has that the Chinese probably shouldn't copy from...

[FaultyMario]

And yet, I keep walking on hot coals.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Okay, regarding stuffs back at home...


The longer I live the more radical I become it seems. With the housing shortage we have right now, we should be taxing the ever loving fuck out of homes that are owned and rented out as income. I'm heavily invested in a bunch of REITs (Real Estate Investment Trust) and that income, imo should be taxed like fuck!!!

I'm becoming very "nothing, that we *need* to survive, should be sold at profit." By that I mean considerable profit. Food, water, shelter, healthcare, education. Should be sold at cost/ minimal profit or be taxed to high heavenly fuck and back.

Businesses have to be able to make profit in order to motivate them to keep doing it. More tax, sure, but can't expect them to become non-profit orgs. Even if they're forced to do it, they could easily just increase their wages/bonuses to make sure the company doesn't have any profits left?

Anyway, I generally agree with your sentiment. Basic food, water, shelter, healthcare, education should be free or very affordable. However, even if we wipe out the GOP completely, I'm not sure Dems will want to deliver that to the American people though. Not unless if Bernie Sanders takes over party leadership?

I'm really surprised to see where you stand politically, yet hates Bernie Sanders and most progressives so much. :p

[sandydandy]

Lun is Cantonese slang for Penis/dickhead. Indian too. Actually it's Lund, but lun works as well. My cousins and I always laugh in our group chat when someone posts a picture of the sign of the Swedish city of Lund.

[sandydandy]

Interesting video (https://youtu.be/xgXda61MtWE) on economics in the US. Interesting video. I do remember Milton Friedman being discussed during Finance class a long time ago. I believe he was the one who changed the economic and business philosophy pertaining to stakeholders vs stockholders. He advocated for eliminating the consideration of stakeholders, because they weren't important, and focused solely on the stockholder. It seems like everyone listened, and that's why America (and Canada) is the way that it is today. America more so. Way more so.

I think it was Friedman...not 100% sure. Might've been somebody else.

[Yw-slayer]

"UK's Sunak says China poses world's biggest security challenge" - Reuters

"Sunak ranks China as top challenge to global security" - Politico

Only obscure clickbait websites!!! Nothing to worry about, right?

[Yw-slayer]

Indian too. Actually it's Lund, but lun works as well. My cousins and I always laugh in our group chat when someone posts a picture of the sign of the Swedish city of Lund.

Interesting - and actually now you mention it, I think a friend of mine did once mention that to me. Or maybe it was, uh my friend who learnt that when browsing certain websites...

[Crazed_Insanity]

"UK's Sunak says China poses world's biggest security challenge" - Reuters

"Sunak ranks China as top challenge to global security" - Politico

Only obscure clickbait websites!!! Nothing to worry about, right?

Would you consider a global pandemic a security risk?

We don’t have all the evidences yet, but regardless if it’s natural origin or lab leak, epicenter was China, right?

If it were lab leak, US also should share blame because we were funding research we couldn’t do at home. If it’s natural origin, surely China couldn’t be blamed for that, however, it’s not like corona virus wasn’t troublesome before. Wet markets still exist. There was also lack of cooperation during the initial outbreak…

Risks are there YW. West are not totally blameless for sure, but it’s kinda difficult to expect political oppositions to not bad mouth each other.

Relationship was deteriorating with financial strains… pandemic only made things worse.

[Tom Servo]

"UK's Sunak says China poses world's biggest security challenge" - Reuters

"Sunak ranks China as top challenge to global security" - Politico

Only obscure clickbait websites!!! Nothing to worry about, right?

I'd think your worry would be with Sunak and the UK government, not reporting (accurately) what the UK Prime Minister said at G7?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think he's just annoyed, just like you'd be as well when you read about what Jordan Peterson said, or what Elon Musk said, or what Trump said, or what Fox News reported. Reporting could be 'accurate', but still annoying if it's not what you want to hear.

Problem with our world today is the lack of truth. It's difficult to tell the truth nowadays.

Liberals have one world view and conservatives have another. The real world probably falls somewhere in between.

IMHO, both US and China are putting the rest of the world at risk.

Same as our Republicans and Democrats. They each like to blame the other side for all of our problems, but both are fucking up our country. The artificially created crisis of this fictitious debt ceiling, for example, is being played again and again... all for politics playing. Blame game is easy to play. End result is usually war.

[Yw-slayer]

I'd think your worry would be with Sunak and the UK government, not reporting (accurately) what the UK Prime Minister said at G7?

Yes, what he said as a continuation of the world's most sustained, successful, and far-reaching English-language propaganda campaign.

[Tom Servo]

There's a big difference between country leaders doing dick-waving at their economic conferences and whether or not there's a sustained media campaign.

Neither Politico nor Reuters ran their own editorials admonishing China, and both articles included a response from China.

I love you man, but you've found yourself in almost a QAnon style slot about how the rest of the world feels about you.

[Rare White Ape]

As a citizen of a member country of AUKUS, I can only say that our biggest enemy right now is China, and NOT the US arms manufacturers who successfully shook us down for $320 billion AUD for nuclear subs that we will receive in maybe 10 years.

[Yw-slayer]

I love you man, but you've found yourself in almost a QAnon style slot about how the rest of the world feels about you.

Dude, I love you too, but I understand that you may not understand as you don't live in a jurisdiction which is constantly on the receiving end of Billicrap.

Of course this sort of dick-waving is generally reported. The fact that it has been said is then put alongside and built on within "THEREFORE EVIL/BAD/FAIL" stuff by the rest of the English-language media. It's all part of a campaign to create a specific mindset and those assumptions. So, propaganda.

Check out these articles on The Economist (an obscure clickbait publication?) on China from the last month or so! https://www.economist.com/china

"China | A new mandate in the heavens - Why China fears Starlink - And why it wants to build its own satellite constellation in low-Earth orbit"

"China | The City of Xi - Xiongan is Xi Jinping’s pet project - But it is taking a long time to build"

"China | Don’t look up - China is unusually secretive about its space programme - What is it doing up there?

"China | Closed society - China needs foreign workers. So why won’t it embrace immigration? Opposition to multiculturalism is fuelled, in part, by claims of racial purity"

"China | The smokeless war - A battle against spies in China is spooking locals and foreigners"

"China | Battle of the bricks - Lego, the world’s top toymaker, focuses on China - Its local rivals are building new weapons, though" (emphasis added as lol they even manage to make war talk out of bricks)

"China | Chaguan - China’s new “Top Gun” normalises war with America - A PLA-backed box-office hit takes China to the danger zone"

I have better things to do than specifically copy and paste all of the next few on the first page but here you go!



Chaguan

China’s rulers play the law-and-order card, and lose
A revealing backlash to a new brigade of rural law-enforcement officers


Xivilisation

China’s latest attempt to rally the world against Western values
Xi Jinping faults America for any clash of civilisations


Love elderly

The novel ways old people try to find love in China
Some join a matchmaking live-stream watched by half a million people


First contact

At last, Xi Jinping calls Volodymyr Zelensky
China’s leader promises to push peace in Ukraine


Spiky relations

China’s alleged theft of a pineapple cultivar has Taiwan livid
A completely different kind of grey-zone tactic

I wouldn't be surprised if another editorial comes out soon saying something like "No doubt these challenges are why Sunak identified..." etc.

As for the "old people finding love" article - oh look!

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/10/china-faces-low-birth-rate-aging-population-but-women-dont-want-kids.html "Already grappling with an aging population and poised to be overtaken by India as the world’s most populous country, China continues to struggle to boost its birth rate."

[Crazed_Insanity]

Joe Biden’s global vision is too timid and pessimistic
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/05/18/joe-bidens-global-vision-is-too-timid-and-pessimistic

I think Economist is just like Billi, being critical of BOTH nations.

Just read what Economist say about US:

https://www.economist.com/united-states

You'll have a case if they are saying bad things about China and all good things about US. I think they're critical of both.

In a way, that is what media is for. Media shouldn't just be writing ass kissing articles.

[Tom Servo]

Check out these articles on The Economist (an obscure clickbait publication?) on China from the last month or so! https://www.economist.com/china


That, by far, is the best evidence I've seen you post of what you're talking about, and that's legit propaganda. Especially considering doing /iran or /russia just takes you to a search page with that as the query, but /china gets its own landing page.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Uh... I know you probably ignored my post above, but US gets its own landing page as well... and that page doesn't not put US in a very good light.

Are you sure they also have a legit propaganda campaign against the US? I tend to think they're legit criticisms for both nations.

I think you guys are just looking for 'evidence' to confirm your bias. Need to widen your search and try to see bigger picture, not narrowing your searches for evidences to confirms personal bias.

[FaultyMario]

I changed the search word for "Mexico".

Holy shit man! We went from being "safer than Canada" in 2010 to a "looming chaos", "gang conglomerate" in 2023.

It's so unreal, like waking up to a worse reality overnight!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Naturally there's also a propaganda against them Mexicans!

Will the Economist sing praises to anyone?

[Crazed_Insanity]

"China | Chaguan - China’s new “Top Gun” normalises war with America - A PLA-backed box-office hit takes China to the danger zone"


Want to make one last comment about this...

Pre-pandemic, I think the West has been bowing down to the great China for a while. Even Top Gun became so politically correct that it wouldn't dare bring up exactly who's their adversary. Maverick also felt the need to rip off the taiwanese flag on his flight jacket in order to appease the Chinese communists. China's market is just too big to ignore!

US has also been purposefully 'ambiguous' about their position regarding Taiwan. You want Taiwan ignored on the world stage? Sure, let's all ignore Taiwan. Let's all pretend that Taiwan doesn't exist. Any useful info for WHO? Let's ignore them. What the heck do they know. WHO knows how to stop a pandemic. We're working closely with the Chinese Communist and we got everything under control... :rolleyes:

Be good to Taiwanese and Tibetans and your own people... and people will love you and would not try to immigrate out of China whatever chance they get. I think pretty much all Chinese people with sufficient means have properties outside of China. Our real estate being so high is probably also due to the rich chinese folks buying up places left and right with cash offers.

Seriously, do you love Xi? CCP is really doing a pretty good job?

I'm unhappy with our own republicans and democrats, but I'm glad we don't have a dictator communist in charge.

America and US are inching closer to war. This is definitely not something I want to see. Especially if it's going to be fought over Taiwan. Here's hoping whatever's influencing Putin won't do the same to Xi.

[MR2 Fan]

so Der Furhrer wannabe DeSantis basically got the law changed today so he can remain governor of Florida and keep ruining it while he runs for president...announcing with Elon Musk officially on twitter tomorrow :rolleyes:

[retsmah]

The media really wants to make DeSantis happen, I'm very skeptical. My feeling is the only way Trump loses the primary is he goes to jail or dies, and I'm not so sure that he'd lose from jail.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hope GOP end up nominating Tim or Nikki so that they can dissociate themselves as the party of white supremacist.

However, even if GOP has a minority colored candidate, he could still be a Nazi's sympathizer. If Billi can be viewed as a nazi sympathizer, there's no reason why other non-white folks could also be perceived as such? Anyway, at least that's better than having an actual white person on the job I suppose? Plus, I don't like Trump nor DeSantis... not because of the color of their skin, but the content of their characters.

Anyway, surely there are white supremacists, but I still think America's 'white' privilege problems are smaller than the 'rich&powerful' privileges.

Take for example, convicted felon's can't vote, yet, they can run for and be the president?
We the common folks have lots of insider's trading rules to follow, but congressmen who actually make policies don't have to obey the same rule?
Finally, lower court judges have ethical rules to follow, but the supreme court can have a different set of rules?

WTF man?!?!?

One simple way to fight racism is to become rich and powerful. There's no racism up there. Justice could also be purchased easily if you find the best legal team money can buy.

If we don't fix these things, our nation will be destroyed by these folks, rather than the neo-nazis. We've been able to manage the nazis and keeping them under control, but the rich and powerful today are really getting out of control.

BTW, although Elon Musk is rich, but there are definitely folks worse than him. I like him only because he's probably the most productive billionaires around. Most other billionaires around the world probably don't contribute very much at all...

[MR2 Fan]

I think DeSantis is running on the "no publicity is bad publicity" theory, getting his name out as often as he can whether it's something good or bad, so he will seem like a front-runner even if his policies are too extreme even for some in the GOP (maybe).

I don't see any other candidate outside of DeSantis and Trump who can drum up that much publicity. Trump is much louder and DeSantis is a weak person but he's propped up by a lot of donors and a Florida legislature that basically green-lights anything he wants, so he's always in the news, well him and Greg Abbott in "how can I be the worst human in the world today?" contest.

[MR2 Fan]

Billi used the term "colored"...why am I not surprised

[Crazed_Insanity]

People of color is now offensive?

Anyway, I really think under normal social circumstances, we can just straight up ask people face to face how they’d like to be addressed using whatever terms or pronounce.

On internet, if people wish to take offense when there’s no such intent, oh well.

[FaultyMario]

I heard y'all are celebrating Kissinger's centenary.

Do not complain, please.

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-condemns-us-senator-grahams-comments-death-russians-2023-05-28/

Putting aside the topic and usual posturing entirely, people actually like this moron who thinks it's correct to say "could care less"? This is international politics and posturing, not some incoherent uneducated teenager yelling at someone on Fortni... Oh, wait.

[Tom Servo]

For some reason, his constituents still seem to like him. And yes, the "could care less" thing is also a pet peeve of mine.

My biggest complaint about opposition to him is that a lot of it focuses on speculation that he's gay, as though that's a bad thing. I think there's a strong chance he is, but that's not worth criticizing. Being gay doesn't make you a bad person. Being gay and voting against gay rights might make you a bad person. All that aside, he's done so much awful shit that being gay and voting against gay rights would be one of the least shitty things he's done. He's definitely in the McConnell camp of strongly condemning the insurrection until he realized it might hurt him politically and turning heel almost immediately.

[FaultyMario]

Graham is a waste of living space because he is just a mouthpiece for nefarious corporate interests. He could care less if he pushes the atomic or climate clocks past 11:59 because his way of life depends on the money that he gets from the aforementioned nefarious sponsors.

Which brings us back to living a life of denial that needs to be shielded from public scrutiny... I just don't think that that is a life that merits risking the well being of countless other less hypocrite lives. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Yw-slayer]

Another great example of hilariously bad, yet full-on propaganda from October 2022 (found it while going through a directory of random crap). Did this guy - or at least his editors - really think he was Marco Polo or something? And that there have been no "foreign journalists" in HK since 2020? Hilarious. Yet this shit is what foundations of rubbish are built on.

4100

[Crazed_Insanity]

Big name CEOs visiting China to check out their investments and to mingle with the CCP as tensions rise between 2 nations. Elon Musk went as well! He couldn't tweet about it because Twitter is banned in China! Still Elon is wildly popular in China. It's kinda weird that he's embraced by the freedumb folks and also the communists, but hated by the Amercan liberals. :p

Elon's thinking of opening up more Tesla factories in China. He's really brave to continue on like this knowing the rising tensions between 2 countries.

Hopefully this flow of money will be enough to discourage the 2 countries from entering into a major all out war. Hope there'll only be another space race to the moon and mars in the future...

[FaultyMario]

Did this guy - or at least his editors - really think he was Marco Polo or something? And that there have been no "foreign journalists" in HK since 2020? Hilarious. Yet this shit is what foundations of rubbish are built on.



While on the subject of self-aggrandizing idiots:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1663749032827576322

[Crazed_Insanity]

I seriously don't get the point of the question. I also don't get the response to that question.

There's clearly a propagandistic mechanism at work here on both sides. One side is saying black people suck and the other side is saying white people sucked more! Look at history!

Same goes with what YW is saying. One side is saying America sucks and the other is saying China sucks...

Take a look in the mirror. We all suck! That is not a propaganda. That is reality. Human beings are just not perfect and often screw things up badly. Blaming each other solves nothing. Yeah, maybe killing off the other side might solve something, but such terrorististic mind set is just very hard for me to stomach. So hopefully 2 sides can work something out before shooting or bombing each other. Sigh...

America also shoulders the responsibility of showing the world that democracy actually works. If it clearly doesn't, then I suppose rest of the world just might revert back to having dictatorial kings?

Hope our democracy survives... or hope we can come up with another better alternative...

[Tom Servo]

Oh lordy, there are tapes (https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/31/politics/trump-tape-classified-document-iran-milley/index.html).

Now, here's the thing. As far as I can get from this is that Trump *knew* that the docs he took were classified, and that he couldn't just make them magically declassified.

I do not understand how this is the "smoking gun" here. I thought ignorance of the law was not a defense? Whether or not he understood that he couldn't just declassify shit with the power of his mind feels immaterial, yeah?

I can understand how that might be part of sentencing of any crime, like if you knew what you were doing was a crime might make you have a longer sentence than you plausibly denying that you did, but it doesn't change the actual crime committed, right?

[Tom Servo]

We watch Mr. Musk get radicalized in real time while Dr. Petersen continues to just be about free speech and being allowed to use the pronouns he wants to use for people, nothing more than that.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxnxOs5XoAQJSF8?format=png&name=small

[Crazed_Insanity]

One side is claiming it's ethically hurtful to withhold gender reversal treatments, so we absolutely need to lower the age limit. Hormones can start to work real early, so we gotta let children decided early on!

On the flip side, why don't we let them drive, drink, smoke, and vote earlier? Also, age of consent is in place all because of stupid Republicans blocking such efforts?

You guys honestly don't see the controversies involved? This issue is really that black and white to you guys?

Jordan Peterson and Elno Must be hateful bigots so we must boycott Tesla and SpaceX?

To me, I think Jordan Peterson is just saying enablers should be penalized as adults having sex with children. Would you consider him hateful for not wanting adults to have sex with children? Of course, perhaps medical professionals don't brainwash young minds, but adult parents could certainly do that. Plenty of parents wished they could have a son or a daughter and this will help parents fulfill their fantasies better...

I think the point is that children's minds can be so easily manipulated. Heck, even adult brains can be easily manipulated by propaganda.

Maybe there are procedures to allow kids to remain gender neutral until 18. Hopefully by then they can be mature enough to figure out truly what they want to do with their lives.

My honest opinion is that we all should just learn to accept to play the hand God or Mother Nature dealt us. No need to be like Michael Jackson and try to be white and no need to try to find a richer parents and no need for plastic surgery to look prettier and no need to try to change your gender. These are not really medical conditions that really require treatment. Beauty is found within. You are pretty and special enough as is.

Of course if you want to change yourself physically, that's cool too. There shouldn't be laws against that.

It's just that doing these 'optional' treatments on underage kids is kinda controversial, at least to me.

[Tom Servo]

Clicked on "view post" to see if someone else has also still been going through his real-time radicalization, was not disappointed.

Also, and I know I will regret engaging, but how do you think someone might boycott SpaceX? Do you think we were all about to buy reusable rockets for however many millions of dollars but now we won't because we're boycotting?

Honestly, dude, think. This is what I'm talking about with the real-time radicalization. You're absolutely regurgitating talking points you keep absorbing from the shit you see on the internet without even taking a second to think "does this make any sense?"

[MR2 Fan]

you too can get your own "Radilcalize Me Elno" doll

[Crazed_Insanity]

Clicked on "view post" to see if someone else has also still been going through his real-time radicalization, was not disappointed.

Also, and I know I will regret engaging, but how do you think someone might boycott SpaceX? Do you think we were all about to buy reusable rockets for however many millions of dollars but now we won't because we're boycotting?

Honestly, dude, think. This is what I'm talking about with the real-time radicalization. You're absolutely regurgitating talking points you keep absorbing from the shit you see on the internet without even taking a second to think "does this make any sense?"

You are not regurgitating the same talking points as well?

I'm definitely not at the same level as Jordan or Elon; however, I'm branded as a hateful radicalized neo nazi sympathizing person just as they are.

All for not regurgitating the same lefty talking points. Let's leave me, Jordan, Elon, Trump out of it...

Why do you think absolutely without a doubt necessary for underage kids to undergo gender reversal treatments?

If we don't allow that, that's a form of hateful discrimination?

What about poor kids who wants such treatments?

Isn't that unfair or perhaps discriminatory against poor kids?

This is very similar to the prolife/prochoice debate. There is no clear winner between the two. There's no need to pick a side and then vilifying the other side. If we truly want to help the kids, let's find a way to help them.

All I'm asking is that by lowering the age of such procedure, are you really sure that's the best way to help?

[Tom Servo]

Billi, no I am not. Calling out Musk for going through what appears to be an insanely fast red-pilling and two people not saying "this might be controversial" but literally calling for jailing without parole of doctors and therapists and calling them "butchers" is not regurgitating talking points. That's fucking fascism. It's what Nazis did. Look it up.

And you're branded as a Nazi sympathizer because you literally sympathized with an actual Nazi. I do not know how to explain that any further. You sympathized with a Nazi who shot up a super market. This is not you being unfairly branded, it's *what you did* and then when called out on it, you doubled down. You can chalk that up to regurgitating talking points and cancel culture all you like, but I was in that actual conversation with you where you sympathized with a Nazi and then defended sympathizing with a Nazi.

Also, you immediately introduced this idea of "lowering the age", which nobody was talking about. You actually moved the goalposts *twice* in one post. Once from calling for jailing without parole of doctors and therapists over conducting medical procedures with the patient's consent to "can't you see it's controversial" and then introducing another angle to just try to make your stance seem more palatable.

"All I'm asking is..." no, it isn't. And fuck you for trying to make it seem like it is.

Back to refusing to click "view post".

[Rare White Ape]

Nobody gives a fuck about people in cyberpunk films changing their bodies to suit whatever mood they have, or enhancements they want, or aesthetic vibe they got going on at any particular time.

But OH NO IF SOMEONE HAS A WEE-WEE BUT PREFERS BOOBS AND A VAGEEN (or vice-versa) WE’D BETTER PUT AN END TO IT! BUTCHERS! CHILD GROOMERS! VIOLENT PSYCHOPATHS!

Gender reassignment surgery is probably the most cyberpunk thing there is.

Happy pride month :)

[Tom Servo]

Really good article on the subject at hand: https://wheresyoured.at/p/abandonment-issues

[Crazed_Insanity]

Billi, no I am not. Calling out Musk for going through what appears to be an insanely fast red-pilling and two people not saying "this might be controversial" but literally calling for jailing without parole of doctors and therapists and calling them "butchers" is not regurgitating talking points. That's fucking fascism. It's what Nazis did. Look it up.

And you're branded as a Nazi sympathizer because you literally sympathized with an actual Nazi. I do not know how to explain that any further. You sympathized with a Nazi who shot up a super market. This is not you being unfairly branded, it's *what you did* and then when called out on it, you doubled down. You can chalk that up to regurgitating talking points and cancel culture all you like, but I was in that actual conversation with you where you sympathized with a Nazi and then defended sympathizing with a Nazi.

Also, you immediately introduced this idea of "lowering the age", which nobody was talking about. You actually moved the goalposts *twice* in one post. Once from calling for jailing without parole of doctors and therapists over conducting medical procedures with the patient's consent to "can't you see it's controversial" and then introducing another angle to just try to make your stance seem more palatable.

"All I'm asking is..." no, it isn't. And fuck you for trying to make it seem like it is.

Back to refusing to click "view post".

Elon and Peterson tweet was about adults 'manipulating' kids into having these kind of procedures, not stoping these procedure in absolute terms. I'm not the one who immediately introduced the idea of lowering the age. It has already been lowered and that's what's upsetting Peterson and Musk. New 'guidelines' is saying we should do it as early as 14! https://apnews.com/article/gender-transition-treatment-guidelines-9dbe54f670a3a0f5f2831c2bf14f9bbb

Why don't we also push down voting age, smoking age, drinking age, age of conscent? What makes gender reversal such a special case that we should absolutely trust an underage kid to be able to make such impactful life decision correctly? Raging hormones entering into our teen's systems will always help them make the wisest decisions?

Anyway, we probably won't be able to really debate the issue, because you guys are not allowed to engage with terrorists. So brand me as a Nazi and end of discussion? Reality is that I'm not a Nazi sympathizer, but you guys felt free to branded me as such. I must be a radicalized hateful person pretending to be a follower of Christ. If I don't agree with you on certain issues, then just brand me as some evil radicalized hateful asshole so you can feel better at hating or ignoring such part of the population?

There are definitely hateful white supremacists, but I really don't feel Peterson/Musk are one of them. Musk has a more whacky personality and even if he is qualified, I would NOT vote for him for president. He should stick to building things. As for Peterson, I'd have no problems with him as president. However, he is probably better served where he is. Bottomline is that I don't believe he's a hateful person, let alone a white supremacist.

Both sides are very good a vilifying the other side. In the end, we can no longer debate the actual issues, we're just fighting each other or ignoring each other and allowing the issues to drag on unresolved...

As for boycotting, the right can be stupid too. I think some are now trying to boycott Chick filet for some woke issues? Both sides are getting crazy. Just want you to know that I'm not only critical of the left. I'm an equal opportunity critic! :p

Anyway, maybe I'm the only crazy one as my name suggests.

[FaultyMario]

Happy pride month :)

I did not know that some people in the Republic of Canuckistan also add "2S" (Two-spirit) before the LGBT+, as a neologism for queer indigenous folk. And while it is not something stemming from within indigenous communities, I like that it tries to break away from the western view of sexuality.

We still have a long way to go to create diverse, inter-dialectic communities. But once we do, we will be ready to explore the universes.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, considering the size of our universe, there are certainly plenty of things to explore externally. However, there are also a lot for us to explore internally within as well... I definitely have a male and female spirit within me as well. So I guess I can consider myself as part of the LGBT2S+ community too? :)

To be able to have a truly diverse, inter-dialectic community, we probably need a very good universal translator that can help buffer/filter our speech? To accurately detect whether or not of the speaker means to offend and then translate that appropriately to the listener.

I think people nowadays have developed some sort of allergic reactions to certain speeches. I'm finding both sides overreacting to whatever the other side is saying. I get that we perhaps need to be more politically correct so that we can filter out words that might cause these allergic reactions sometimes, but we can't all continue to live inside a clean politically correct bubble as a community forever. Just because you're allergic to peanuts or shrimp, doesn't mean we need to get rid of them all. Of course we absolutely need to be considerate of those who suffer from allergies so that they won't die because of peanuts or shrimp... There's always a happy medium. Or maybe it'll be somewhat unhappy medium, which is called compromise... point is we all should have sufficient freedom, but not so much that it end up hurting others needlessly.

Maybe the pursuit of happiness in our constitution is the problem? Americans tend to think happiness is their God given right? Give me happiness or let me die!

[mk]

Nobody gives a fuck about people in cyberpunk films changing their bodies to suit whatever mood they have, or enhancements they want, or aesthetic vibe they got going on at any particular time.

But OH NO IF SOMEONE HAS A WEE-WEE BUT PREFERS BOOBS AND A VAGEEN (or vice-versa) WE’D BETTER PUT AN END TO IT! BUTCHERS! CHILD GROOMERS! VIOLENT PSYCHOPATHS!

Gender reassignment surgery is probably the most cyberpunk thing there is.

Happy pride month :)

Here the circle is closing.
Pride folks have blocked supporters because they are not pride enough.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Jack Dorsey came out endorsing RFK jr. has elevated him to be the top billionaire to hate for the moment, giving Elno Must some chance to take a breath and chill a bit. :p

Anyway, just to be clear, I'm not a supporter of RFK jr. I do like his msg, but don't really know too much about him to trust him with my vote. Still, I don't hate Biden so much that I want him out of the office so I kinda agree with Bernie that there's probably no need to challenge a sitting liberal president at the moment.

I'm just surprised that this political allergic reaction can be so strong even amongst the liberals.

So what if RFK jr is running? What do we have to worry about if Biden is so strong and popular in the 1st place?
Also, who cares what Jack Dorsey thinks? Likewise, who cares what Elon Musk thinks? I admire Elon for his accomplishments, but certainly don't always agree with him on everything.

Hate speech is obviously wrong, but I'm just surprised how much people can hate 'speeches' given by their political oppositions. Let people have their opinions. Agree to disagree. Why go all bunkers over it? We still don't really know natural origin or lab leak. It is definitely possible that vaccines are not 100% safe. As long as you know where you stand and why you stand there, that should be enough. No need to hate/scoff people standing on different sides. Even for flat earthers. So what? How will flat earthers' belief hurt me? Even for climate change deniers... who's hurting the planet more? Those deniers? Or the people(which is all of us) who are actually polluting, not to mention we can have giant forest fires and wars all going on at the same time... deny or not deny... what difference does it really make?

Nobody has identical political/religious beliefs, sexual preferences/orientations, nor financial wealth levels. Do we really need to focus in on our differences so much and find reasons to hate one another?

Of course, Jordan Peterson probably also shouldn't hate the people pushing kids to alter their genders so much. Just let them go thru with it and pick up their own responsibilities of their own actions. He probably also shouldn't hate the Canadian government for wanting to compel speech. What's the big deal. Just use people's desire pronouns. What's the big deal? If it hurts you to say something, then just don't say it then. Compel speech won't actually force you to say something, right? You can stay silent... or you can just address the person by name to avoid using the pronouns you don't want to use? Government can't catch you all the time! :p

Anyway, these reactions just amplified the 2 sides to an out of control current day level I think...

[MR2 Fan]

Here the circle is closing.
Pride folks have blocked supporters because they are not pride enough.


I have a lot of thoughts about PRIDE but am also not part of the "community" other than being an Ally and that everyone deserves equal treatment, however when I have more time I will probably delve into my thoughts here as not many other places I feel like I can post without getting a lot of pushback for being an ally and not officially part of the "group". I'll explain why I'm using quotations as well later.

Edit: did I mention I love run-on sentences?

[Crazed_Insanity]

No you didn't. However, I can respect that your sentence self identifies as a marathoner. My sentences identify themselves as typos and grammatically/logically wrong all the time. Some people are anal about that and can't stand what's seemingly wrong. It's not their fault that they self identify as 'police'! There will always to spelling, grammar, moral police..., but, hey, at least they're working for free and not taking any of taxpayer's money! :p

[FaultyMario]

you too can get your own "Radilcalize Me Elno" doll

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fx8-69_X0AAnX61.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

I kinda want to continue our discussion in F-1 here rather than derail our usual F-1 thread.

Is Max really a neo-nazi? I don't know for sure, but if he really is, then I suppose I would stop being a fanboy. I can appreciate Max's talent on track without mixing his private life to it. Is he an asshole both on and off track? Maybe. However, if he can deliver the goods, he'll continue to deliver. Not saying we all need to be assholes, plus, not every asshole could deliver the same thing. Correlation is not causation. Same with twitter me Elno! Everyone can be an asshole, but certainly not everyone can win championships or make EVs or shoot up and retrieve rockets. Me being their admirer is not that I admire their holes, but their achievements. We gotta learn to separate those things out a bit.

Of course if we truly find out that they are neo-nazis or that their successes are built on doing some evil shit under the table, that's a whole different story.

On a flip side, somebody like Jeff Epstein... seemingly like a decent guy. Won't tweet stupid politically incorrect shit. Of course where you get your money is really none of my business as long as you made it legally. My point is that a truly fucked up evil guy can be much more polished and politically correct on the outside. These are the folks we need to be cautious of... My take is that those annoying loudmouths are probably the ones we need to worry about the least.

I'm quite fond of those guys who have a singular vision and are determined to make it happen. These are qualities I lack I think... that's why I envy and admire them. Whether it's Max or Elon or Bernie... Bernie is not quite as successful in life, but I still admire his determination!

Don't hate somebody simply because they have an asshole. We all have them! Lastly, I'm pretty sure not the entire GOP are neo-nazies. Just as not all dems are communists.

[MR2 Fan]

Trump just stated he's been indicted again

[FaultyMario]

For stealing government documents?

[MR2 Fan]

For stealing government documents?

yep

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/08/trump-classified-documents-mar-a-lago/

[2ndMoparMan]

And we still have the GA case as well. I can't imagine him slipping out of THREE cases.

[FaultyMario]

I hate how the media portray privileged men's crimes as if they were something complex.

They're just fucking thieves and cheats who go to their dude-will-fixit when they get spooked. If you look at the just the basic facts, you see what a bunch of fucking simpletons they are.

[Cam]

Yet, if you drive through the USA, like I am doing at the moment, there are still a disturbing number of Trump allies clearly displaying their support. :erm:

[Tom Servo]

Also the supreme court ruled that GA illegally gerrymandered districts around Atlanta to disenfranchise Black voters and have to redraw districts, and Pat Robertson died.

All in all, today was a good day.

[Tom Servo]

For stealing government documents?

Washington Post at least thinks it is way more about the cover-up than the actual taking of the documents, that the main thing he's in trouble for was lying and deliberately, repeatedly attempting to hide docs even when subpoenaed.

[MR2 Fan]

Also the supreme court ruled that GA illegally gerrymandered districts around Atlanta to disenfranchise Black voters and have to redraw districts, and Pat Robertson died.

All in all, today was a good day.

I thought that was Alabama (or was it both?)

Also, NOW what are the odds that Trump flees to Russia?

[Tom Servo]

I thought that was Alabama (or was it both?)

Also, NOW what are the odds that Trump flees to Russia?

Shoot, you're right. I have no idea how I thought I read it had something to do with Atlanta, maybe my brain just misread Alabama as Atlanta and I assumed Georgia.

[FaultyMario]

The are photographs currently doing the rounds on social media of a marble'd bathroom filled to the ceiling with filing boxes, are they from Mar-a-Lago?

[Fiat500]

Apparently, yes.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/09/five-revelations-trump-unsealed-indictment

Could this be it now, or will it just be more water off the witch's back?

[MR2 Fan]

I thought all of the toilets were supposed to be made of gold...what a ripoff

[FaultyMario]

Did you see the roll of TP tucked between the wall and one of the boxes?

Told ya! they're a bunch of simpletons.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I guess as a contrarian, I like to see this bad things in a more positive light…

I really like how Trump is trying to make that bathroom great again by putting a chandelier in there! Very impressive! ;)

However, america is kinda like that bathroom now… as nice and impressive as it is, he really messed it up good.

[FaultyMario]

I really like Trump

Stop the presses! we have some breaking news!!!

[Tom Servo]

I mean...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyM51cMWIAcyu1N?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyM51cPWIBAMiQc?format=jpg&name=large

"I mean, not to tell all you randos I've never met that I'm criming, but I am extremely criming, amirite?"

My understanding is that Senior Military Official is likely Milley and Country A is likely Iran.

[FaultyMario]

Tom, is Jack Dorsey a prominent anti-vaxxer?

Also, Ted Kaczynski died from cancer today.

[Tom Servo]

Jack Dorsey is pretty far into that pastel-anon world, that wellness-to-Q pipeline. He's all about the Ayahuasca and a growing distrust of medicine, so it does line up.

I don't know his vaccine opinions specifically, but I feel like if I had to guess, yeah, he's anti-vaxx.

I honestly don't think there's much separation at this point from Dorsey and John McAfee. Jack seems like he's on a similar trajectory.

[FaultyMario]

I'm only asking bc I saw an article from Vice news where they expect RFK jr. to launch a third-party bid backed by cryptobros, techguys and antivaxxers. You know, it's almost like a libertarian dream come true.

[MR2 Fan]

Great! They'll just split the GOP vote

[Tom Servo]

Sadly, RFK Jr. is at least targeting the democratic vote. And doing better than I would have hoped.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Great! They'll just split the GOP vote

Kinda doubt conservatives would vote for a Kennedy.

Dem is kinda in a bind. Biden couldn’t just retire since that will appear as if he’s done a lousy job. Even if he were to retire gracefully, Kamala isn’t really all that popular. There’s also no future Obama’s on the horizon. Even if we do get our next Bill Clinton or Obama, Kamala the VP will simply be skipped? That doesn’t look right either!

Rather than riding on the momentum from candidates like Bernie and RFK Jr., DNC was simply more focused at quenching the fire. Making itself not quite as corporate friendly as GOP nor very voter friendly.

Seems like only way dems could win is after some bozo like W or Trump messed things up real bad, then voters will crawl back to the party of normalcy/mediocrity. Just saying even without Obama, surely Hillary could have easily won after W!

Make up your mind DNC. What do you want to be? A party that will truly serve the people or what? Right now you are just not very inspiring. All it can do is point out others are crazy, stupid, hateful, etc… but that’s not how one leads.

I really want a 3rd party. However, I want Bernie to be the party leader, not RFK Jr. I dunno, I just don’t like RFK Jr. For some reasons. Need to observe him longer to really make sure that I can trust him with my vote. Don’t want to make the same mistake as I did with Andrew yang.

[MR2 Fan]

Sadly, RFK Jr. is at least targeting the democratic vote. And doing better than I would have hoped.

cryptobros, techguys and antivaxxers doesn't seem like the democratic vote to me. More like libertarian

[Yw-slayer]

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/12/1181714943/elizabeth-gilbert-halts-new-book-release-russia-ukraine#:~:text=Elizabeth%20Gilbert%2C%20the%20bes tselling%20author,about%20its%20setting%20in%20Rus sia.

Man, I have no interest in her books but this is so funny given that the book is set in 1930's Russia.

Well done Billi's western msm brainwashing Bros for reducing everything into idiotic Baby Star Wars-level stuff!!!

[Crazed_Insanity]

It’s just human nature at work. I’m sure most people probably didn’t care to read about anything German nor Japanese during WWII.

If Hitler/Japanese emperor/Putin wish to play Darth Vader, can’t blame the people against them to want to play rebels.

[Rare White Ape]

Sad…

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/13/trump-finds-no-new-lawyers-mar-a-lago-documents-arraignment?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR3A-byiA_8qU4OQlJlNsDy8HvEJg_DXowv6GXPNmyzqmORHR9UhOUj XMiM_aem_th_AaDJFeiIGUWt3WXnF_903RNWNUp5huc5r9fAxd 5_Z7kxAlWFGvBcDfaSOD9JXJfV9RM

[JoshInKC]

There’s also no future Obama’s on the horizon.
I think that you're somewhat talking about the 2024 election, but if you're talkin 2028 - At this point in 2004 election cycle, there also weren't any future Obamas on the horizon for like 98% of people. He was a nobody in the national political conversation until he won a landslide primary victory in march (his 1st senate campaign) and was then picked to give the keynote address at the '04 DNC. Prior to that speech, nobody outside of IL had heard of of him if they weren't complete political junkies.
In short- if you're worried about 2028, there's time.

[MR2 Fan]

Michelle Obama could try a Hillary move and run for office

[2ndMoparMan]

I'd vote for her.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, I’m probably worrying too much. Obama himself actually came out of nowhere…

Michele Obama would be an interesting and refreshing candidate. I’d vote for her too. However, I think I’ve heard from somewhere that she’s just not interested.

Anyway, Obama was actually my original Bernie Sanders. It’s really a shame to see him basically become a Hillary later on.

I’m hoping for a candidate who can be both charismatic and with integrity as well. Carter was probably the one with most integrity amongst past presidents, but probably wasn’t the most popular… :p

[Tom Servo]

I am never, ever going to stop vomiting.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FylmXUTXoAA_Ic1?format=jpg&name=medium

[Yw-slayer]

Flying Qatar Airways via Doha to metal concert. Liberals and Billi's Brainwashed Bros are ultra-angry and wailing.

[Tom Servo]

Truly astonishing how many chances this dope had to not get charged with doing crimes, but here we are.

Trump rejected lawyers’ efforts to avoid classified documents indictment (https://wapo.st/43HocM7)

[MR2 Fan]

Tons of hubris and also the fact that he just keeps showing up, pleads not guilty then waits for the wheels of justice to VERY SLOWLY move, and the judge/magistrate whatever is like "yeah, go home, but you know, don't leave even though you totally could, don't shoot anyone, though you totally could because we're not limiting access to firearms, don't talk to your co-defendant at all, though you're about to as soon as you leave here but we'll just look the other way"

[sandydandy]

I am never, ever going to stop vomiting.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FylmXUTXoAA_Ic1?format=jpg&name=medium
Yet the Democrats are supposed to be the ones who are paedophiles/molestors. :rolleyes:

Everything the wretched right accuses the left of, they actually do themselves.

[21Kid]

Truly astonishing how many chances this dope had to not get charged with doing crimes, but here we are.

Trump rejected lawyers’ efforts to avoid classified documents indictment (https://wapo.st/43HocM7)
Is it astonishing, really? At least you didn't post his picture this time. ;)

MR2 - He's treated with kid gloves so much it's sickening. They try to keep this sense of neutrality to such an extent that they coddle him like a newborn. Meanwhile he's throwing a tantrum and blaming everyone else, and saying that Hilary & Biden do the same thing, etc... And what does the media do? They report on the tantrum as much or more than the actual criming. :angry:

[Tom Servo]

I guess I still feel like it's a little astonishing? That so many of his lawyers all told him the same thing, including one that convinced Trump to pay him $3 million up front, but all he did was listen to the Judicial Watch guy instead.

[MR2 Fan]

I'm not a lawyer, how do I convince Trump to give me $3 million to provide bad advice?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I have to wonder if our society is just way too lenient on the rich and famous or perhaps trump is really a genius at getting away with shit.

Just as I can’t really know for sure whether we had a lab leak or did our pandemic came from natural origin…

We just might never know, but regardless of cause, it’s still really unbelievable to watch these shit unfold.

[Tom Servo]

Pretty sure that "tell him what he wants to hear" is the only real requirement. It helps if you've appeared on Fox News when he's been watching, though.