The "Looking to become a homeowner" Thread

[tigeraid]

That sucks.

I was gonna mention my laundry tub and pump install went well, but I feel we're onto a more unfortunate topic. :(

[thesameguy]

Nothing wrong with a little good news. :up:

[Godson]

Nothing wrong with a little good news. :up:

I totally agree

[overpowered]

$499,000

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Oakland/1818-Adeline-St-94607/home/676272

[Kchrpm]

Yikes :|

[21Kid]

Location, Location, Location

[Godson]

One year anniversary for me being a homeowner. Yay!

[tigeraid]

Hey tsg, what's your knowledge like on well pump systems?

[thesameguy]

Absolutely nothing! My exposure is limited to random conversations that pop up on Saabnet. It seems to come up a lot, but I wouldn't purport to know anything. Always curious though, what's up?

[Kchrpm]

Absolutely nothing!

Say it again!

[thesameguy]

Absolutely nothing!

[tigeraid]

Excellent!

I cut all the rotten copper from the water feed system out last weekend, replaced it with pex and shark-bite. Pex and shark-bite for life.

The main pipe coming in from the well has a valve right at the basement wall, which is all rotten and falling apart. I just need to research whether that thing is normally under pressure or not. I imagine it is NOT, since the well pump (directly above it, on a shelf) would be DRAWING the water up out of the wall. Therefore, since I don't have a shut-off valve for the well (that's the rotten part), cutting the pipe leading to it should only piss a little water out.

I'll do some reading first though. :p

[thesameguy]

Had my first experience with pex not that long ago - I am definitely rowing that boat. Stuff is awesome! I have been hesitating on using it for routing compressed air around the garage. It's a slightly iffy proposition (moisture & pressure concerns), but sooooooo convenient!

[Freude am Fahren]

I guess this is the place to talk about working on things in your home?

I finally decided to do something about not having a hose hookup available to me (my bike is A MESS) and spliced into the plumbing in my garage between the meter and the heater with a t-joint, some piping and a hose bib. I mocked up then cemented the whole piping from the T-Joint to just before the transition adapter/bib. Then it was time to cut the line in the garage. It took me a while to get to it because I know if I screwed it up, I'd be boned royally. Was most worried about the pipe cracking when I cut it, but no problems there.

Anyway, I did have one problem. No matter how hard i closed the gate valve on the water supply coming into the garage from outside, I could not completely stop the flow. So using gravity as my friend, the best I could do was bend the pipe down to get all the water I could out of the system, then it would take about a minute before it started to drizzle out again. So I got the water out right before priming and cementing in the t-joint.

I'm just a bit worried a little bit of water might be bad for the curing process. Any thoughts?

Also, if my landlord asks, it was there when I moved in.

[thesameguy]

Is this all done with PVC?

[Freude am Fahren]

CPVC, yeah.

[tigeraid]

Anyone know the basics of HVAC ducting? Wanting to add a single duct to a basement room, off the main duct. The actual work is easy and I won't have a problem, but I'm concerned about the whole "unbalancing the system" or making the furnace work too hard, or whatever. It already has two large cold air returns, seems to heat the house pretty nicely.

[Random]

CPVC, yeah.

If it isn't leaking, it's fine, IMO.

[thesameguy]

Man, I totally forgot about this thread. :(

Water won't hurt the cement ... if there was a problem, you'd know it right quick. :)

HVAC: HVAC is as much art as science balancing supplies, returns, and displacement so you need to be a scientist or an artist, but most people doing HVAC are neither. This wisdom from an HVAC veteran I trust. I don't know the rules at all, but it's a goal to get a handle on them this year as my HVAC is a joke. Gene has been really helpful in the past, but he no longer works with my mom so I'm not sure I can still call on him. Er, point being, there is a specific ratio of system displacement to supplies to returns and if you unbalance them performance will be compromised. If you ask Gene, he will tell you it's probably already compromised and it doesn't matter. If your unit is reasonably new I'll bet you can still get the documentation from the manufacturer and figure out if it's maxed out or not. If not, you might be able to call a local HVAC place with your unit's model and just ask them their thoughts.

[thesameguy]

My personal homeowner activity is replacing a dishwasher, which I special ordered two weeks ago and picked up on Saturday. Unfortunately, the damn thing must have been dropped prior to initial packaging, as the bottom was caved in, there was a huge dent in the back, and there was plastic shrapnel throughout the inside... yet no sign of damage on the carton! Took it back, but now I am dishwasher-less for the next week or two. I spent '03-'10 without a dishwasher so no worries, it's just annoying. On the upside, pulling out the old dishwasher presented nothing unusual, making it the first project I have tackled in my house that didn't include a "What the eff did they think they were doing here?"

[Random]

:up:

Where'd you go for the DW?

[thesameguy]

Lowe's. Really a mixed bag. I've had such piss-poor luck with them in terms of physically larger purchases arriving damaged I really shouldn't go back. Not that I buy that much big stuff, but being 0 in 3 you'd think I'd learn. However, Lowe's was $125 less than Home Depot *and* their extended warranty was $30 less to boot. Despite the bad initial delivery, Lowe's doesn't mess around with the extended warranty stuff - you call, they get it fixed. Beyond that, they express their embarrassment at bad delivery experiences with discounts, so I got another $50 off to boot.

Went with this one:

http://www.maytag.com/kitchen-1/dishwashers-and-kitchen-cleaning-2/dishwashers-3/-[MDB8969SDM]-1111962/MDB8969SDM/

Primary motivation was 47db, which is quieter than the 49db Bosch ones we have at work which you can't even tell are running. Secondary motivation was the macerator so you can be very indiscriminate about what goes in. I'm hoping that a newer dishwasher that requires no pre-washing will substantially cut down on water use. Neither would be sufficient motivation to just buy a new dishwasher, but ours was leaking from the front and posing a bit of a hazard. I ignored it as long as I could... we don't generate that many dishes.

I think I mentioned it before, but the Maytag repair place is like a mile from the house, so that's why I've been buying Maytag appliances. Service isn't much of an issue.

[Random]

Lemme know how it does at actually cleaning dishes. Our current Bosch is pretty mediocre at it. :|

[thesameguy]

Check! Hopefully it arrives this weekend, but the sales person was not confident it would.

[thesameguy]

I've done about six dishwasher loads now, and here's what I can say:

Old dishwasher took about two hours to fully run, new one takes over three. That was expected as the efficiency results in those times. However, I have found that the heat dry is not even remotely necessary and turning that off results in 1:45 cycles which is great.

It uses far less detergent, about 60%, which is great.

It is in fact virtually silent. The only thing you can hear is water circulating inside.

It's cleaning power is at this time unknown, but maybe not better than the old one. We don't generate enough dishes to run it every night... usually every third day. When dishes sit unwashed for three days it can't clean them. I've tried. Unfortunately, since I can't predict when we'll actually run it, I've continued pre-washing dishes. I'm going to try to have folks over for dinner or something to generate enough dishes to immediately run it and see what happens.

Related, on Saturday Lowe's delivered its matching fridge. It's one of two or three fridges in production that will fit in the space we have. I guess they all got taller and we don't have clearance. New fridge is quieter, has an ice maker (my dream, realized), and is much more efficient - EPA says $79 annually. Noteworthy about this fridge is that it was missing the hinge covers and the door is dented and scratch. Lowe's continues their unbroken streak of delivery failures.

[21Kid]

I never use the heat-dry mode either. It seems like a large waste of money. Air drying them is just fine.

Our current dishwasher sucks though. :( It won't get hardly anything off without scrubbing the dishes first. I've though many times of just forgoing it altogether, but we have pretty limited counter space.

[Tom Servo]

The wife and I are going through this process now. We should be signing off on the final stuff in the next couple of days, expecting escrow to close on 1/26. I cannot believe we're finally doing this. That said, all we could afford is a townhouse, but still, it's something!

[Random]

:up: :up:

[Random]

Pics, y0. :D

[Tom Servo]

Oh yeah! I guess it's time to follow up now that we got the keys today! I have a photo album of the place with the seller's furniture in it, but not much of how it looks now. Let me see what I can put together.

Here's an album of the seller's pictures: https://goo.gl/photos/QxmW6QXtiRcZjjpk7

A few pics I took today when we got the keys: https://goo.gl/photos/ZJGJZYL947urdoJ79

I honestly cannot describe how crazy this past month has been. The whole mortgage/home buying process was enough, but we had one cat get really sick and get better, the other one get really sick and not get better (he passed three days ago), got a new home all while just found out that my entire team at work is getting sacked (including my boss), but my job is basically safe.

I used to love roller coasters. Now I want nothing but to get off and just have things be boring for a bit.

Our current landlord basically gifted us the next month as a housewarming gift, so we're taking part of the time to replace the countertops and sink in the kitchen, and probably also replace the range and oven. Also, to remove the popcorn ceiling in the basement. We'll know more if we can pull that off in the timeframe when the estimates come in over the next few days.

[Random]

Built in bookcases, nice!

VOILA!

Is the new place closer to Lowes or HD?

[Tom Servo]

I know...we both hated the "VOILA!" picture on the wall, but the built-ins are sweet.

It's funny. All the things we've disliked about our current home were just "meh, can't fix it." Now I can actually fix the things I don't like.

I'm also stoked about setting up the weather station I got for Christmas. Gonna be uploading data to Weather Underground soon.

[Tom Servo]

Oh, also, I'm both looking forward to my secret "ballot-that-counts" in the next election and also becoming a crazy right-wing NIMBY.

[Kchrpm]

:up: Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

[21Kid]

Nice. :cool: EEeesh, that's scary about the job front. Talk about bad timing.

We bought our house in July and got married in August. That was a stressful summer.

[tigeraid]

I honestly cannot describe how crazy this past month has been. The whole mortgage/home buying process was enough, but we had one cat get really sick and get better, the other one get really sick and not get better (he passed three days ago), got a new home all while just found out that my entire team at work is getting sacked (including my boss), but my job is basically safe.

I used to love roller coasters. Now I want nothing but to get off and just have things be boring for a bit.



Same with us buying the Ranch, as well as our previous home. The experience just leaves you exhausted. Isn't it shocking that there are people that do this like every three years or something? How!? :|

[thesameguy]

I didn't have a stressful experience at all. The singular worst part was the 48 hour wait between our offer and the acceptance. I'm just not a patient person. Finding the house and doing the paperwork was pretty laid back. :shrug:

[thesameguy]

You know what is stressing me out? Floors and window coverings. We have lived with 20-30 year old stuff for six years trying to figure out what we want, and the fact of the matter is we're happy with 20-30 year old furnishings. We are comfortable and have zero desire to impress anyone. Unfortunately, things are starting to show their age and they just have to be replaced soon. Having no eye for design and anything but an unlimited budget I don't know what to do. I feel like the smart money is hire an interior designer to help set a direction and then just slowly implement. Otherwise, I'm going to spend money on stuff that doesn't go together or doesn't look good for very long. I can muddle through making shelves and drawers, install outlets and redo plumbing, but aesthetics take me way out of my depth and I don't like it.

[21Kid]

I look at what other people did...

http://www.houzz.com/photos

You can sort by room, style, size, budget, etc...
Or, there are designers that are willing to help for $$$. Find one you like and contact them.

[Tom Servo]

We just started getting estimates to swap out the kitchen countertops, sink, garbage disposal, range, and oven. That's turning out to be more than I'd hoped. Eegads.

[SkylineObsession]

Hmmm, we bought a house too - mid last year. SCREW YOU LANDLORDS! ;)

Gotta say, it's pretty cool being able to just do stuff to your house without having to ask anyone.

First thing we did when we moved in was improve security (changed and improved locks on all doors including the garage, and other security systems). I'd hacked away at the overgrown hedges/gardens etc to the point where the neighbour said i'd done more to the place in two weeks or so that the previous owners did in years, and he said it hasn't looked so tidy for a long time (it wasn't exactly messy, but i can't stand hedges etc that aren't perfectly straight!).
Had the electricians in to replace a few lights, switches etc. New mailbox. Waterblasted the whole drive (took blimmin ages as it's quite long, and i don't leave waterblast marks which you get when you rush it) and the deck, retaining walls etc (wood) which came up brand new looking.
The list goes on!

Thinking of installing a sprinkler system in the garage (and house eventually), but guessing it won't work as car exhaust fumes may set them off? If not, then it's a done deal.

It's over 100 years old, 20 years or more older than our last rental, but it is a crap ton warmer, moderner and awesomer than the rental. And needs pretty much nothing done to it (when compared to the rental).

[Tom Servo]

And the estimates got higher as now the request is to also redo the cabinets. This be scary.

[21Kid]

Updating the hardware and painting (or re-staining) cabinets goes a long way. We changed the knobs and refinished our butcher-block counter tops and it looked like a whole new kitchen. :)

[Random]

^^ what he said.

At our first house, we kept the cabinet carcasses (which were well-built plywood stuff) and just put new doors and hardware on. Worked nicely.

[Tom Servo]

The second contractor who came out pointed out things like how there are no backs to the cabinets, it's just the wall back there, plus the current oven is 24 inches wide and there's no room to expand for it. It's pretty hard to find a 24 inch oven these days, so we'd be really limited, and if we wanted to expand that we'd have to at least do *some* cabinet work.

That said, it basically doubles the original estimate. From what I gather though, if we do things as part of making the place ready to move into, we get tax writeoffs for it, which helps. It also means we wouldn't see the benefit from that for a year.

Just have to keep reminding myself - my mortgage is less than my rent, so we'll be able to recover what we spend eventually. Still pretty scary going through that much of the savings you have left after putting the down payment on the place.

[George]

I don't feel tardy, but I'm just now seeing this news from Skyline Obsession and Tom Servo. Congratulations, gents!


Is the new place closer to Lowes or HD?

^ You can tell this man is a veteran homeowner.

[George]

The second contractor who came out pointed out things like how there are no backs to the cabinets, it's just the wall back there, plus the current oven is 24 inches wide and there's no room to expand for it.

Funny (and frustrating!) how things change. Two examples:

We have a square shower stall in our basement bathroom that has developed a slight crack in the fiberglass tray that you stand on. The drain is exactly centered in the tray, and the drain is set in the concrete floor of the basement - not easily moved, obviously.

I measured the tray (31" square, approximately) and went to Home Depot (closer to me than Lowe's ;)) to get another. I figured it would be a quick job to replace, since the glass walls and door are bolt-on items. All I'd need would be a new tray and some caulk. But, I learned that building codes have changed and they no longer sell that size. I can get a 33" square one, but then of course the drain hole won't be centered. And no, they don't sell 'em without holes so one can drill his own with a hole saw. :angry:

It seems our only option, without taking a jackhammer to the basement floor and then moving the drain pipe, is having a tile man come in and build us a custom shower bottom. That will work out well in the long run, as we have room to turn the stall into a full-size tub, but it's gonna cost $$$$, I'm sure.

The second tale is from the early 1990s, when a good friend got married and bought his first house. I was a single guy then with lots of free time and a pickup truck, so of course I helped them move in. It was a small house built in the early 1960s and the kitchen cabinets were too small for them to put their dinner plates in! They had regular sized plates - wedding gifts, no doubt - but the cabinets were too shallow to hold them. Eventually they got new cabinets, but I remember us staring in amazement and them wondering where to keep their everyday plates.

[Random]

Swervo: at house #1 we bought a 24" oven when we replaced the applianceds--yeah, it was hard to find, but in the end, we got a name-brand oven that has worked fine ever since. At house #2, we did a complete gut and switched from a 24" wall over to a standard-size drop-in range/oven combo. Something to think about.

[Random]

Just have to keep reminding myself - my mortgage is less than my rent, so we'll be able to recover what we spend eventually. Still pretty scary going through that much of the savings you have left after putting the down payment on the place.

I know exactly what you're saying...we dropped ~$30k on the kitchen remodel and some other stuff on house #2 before we ever moved in. :eek:

[21Kid]

The second contractor who came out pointed out things like how there are no backs to the cabinets, it's just the wall back there...

So? :? Sure, if I were already buying new ones, it would be something to consider. But, I wouldn't consider that a factor for upgrading, personally.
But, we also had sturdier plaster walls. Not just drywall.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah...the thing is, I know we'd want to replace the cabinets eventually because they are kinda old. However, we want to swap out the countertop now. It kinda makes sense to swap the cabinets while we've got the countertop off vs. have to go through the whole countertop thing again.

[Random]

FWIW, a well-installed laminate counter top looks fine (IMO) and isn't all that expensive--downright cheap compared to various stone products, in fact. We did both counters at house #1 (15 linear feet) for $800 installed, vs a similar amount of granite for $3-4k at house #2. Might be a reasonable "temporary" (5-6 years) solution while you shop/save for something else?

[Tom Servo]

I'm sold, but gotta see how the wife feels first :)

[SkylineObsession]

We'll be looking to un-80's-ise our kitchen one day too. Brown on brown on black at the moment, with a couple modern silver and white appliances (oven, dishwasher etc). Bought four new LED downlights the other day to replace the two older types there, and the single 'normal' light. And a new rangehood should hopefully be going up soon. Then a new ceiling.

The list never ends... ;)

Oh and i forgot to mention in my last post that for us, me especially, buying a house was pretty much 100% stress free thanks to using a mortgage broker. Young guy, but he sorted everything out for us, and was paid by the bank after we got the loan approved, so we didn't even need to worry about paying them. :D Was crazy really, i expected to start seeing heaps of grey hairs on my head, but everything just *happened*. :)

Getting married was a lot more stressful, but even that wasn't too bad.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, similar experience, though I'm a pretty pessimistic person, so I kept getting all anxious that something I'd overlooked would pop up on a credit report somewhere. Like how I couldn't remember if I'd actually closed my original Bank of America checking account and that they charged $5 a month to have it, and wondering if maybe somewhere BofA was sitting there claiming I owed them all this money over the past x number of years. I just kept waiting for the other shoe to drop and suddenly be denied the loan.

I tend to be like that though.

Other than that, we never even went into the office. Our friend is a broker so we just asked her, and she basically handled everything once we got the documentation to her, which really wasn't all that bad (last couple tax returns, pay stubs, bank statements, and 401k/retirement statements). Then almost everything we signed electronically and could either print, sign, and scan or fax if it had something potentially dangerous (like an account # or something).

The worst was going into the escrow office, we ended up basically having to sign every one of those documents again, and the stack of papers she brought out was like 3 inches tall. Took for damn ever.

[21Kid]

Yeah, mortgage paperwork has gotten horrible over time. I used to be able to get borrowers to sign them in 20-30 minutes. Now it takes well over an hour.

FYI, you can get a copy of your credit report from your bank/mortgage company. Your friend can send you a copy of it. Always a good idea to look over it every few years, just in case. One of my pet peeves is how easy it is for creditors to put something on your report, and how difficult it is to remove. :|

[thesameguy]

Several credit cards also provide your credit report monthly - Discover, AmEx, and Citi for sure. It's not all three bureaus (unless you have all three cards), but it's better than nothing. You can also sign up for Credit Karma - I think it's still free, it's Transunion's portal but I believe reports both their own in Equifax's reports. I use Discover/AmEx/CK and check them monthly. I had one surprise in the '90s and it took months to unwind at the worst possible time. Now I spend 1 minute a month being sure everything is straight.

[21Kid]

Most of those free ones don't usually give you the scores though, which will be on the full report that the lender has.

[Freude am Fahren]

My three credit cards provide free credit scores. Two use TransUnion, one Experian. Interestingly, I just checked them and the two TransUnion scores were different by 28 points, with the Experian somewhere in the middle.

[thesameguy]

Yep, AFAIK they all provide scores. All of mine do. Two are FICO and one is... something I don't remember.

The variances happen for a bunch of reasons - the specific score calculation, the time of the month, the reporting bureau. My best credit score is typically about 30 points higher than my worst, due to aliens or magic. The whole system is a mess. You really have to keep an eye on all three, because not everything gets reported to everyone. All it takes is someone opening a card under your name on a bureau that you don't keep up with and you're hosed. I'm ultimately less concerned with the score than the details, though it is fun to go for AAA Platinum Score Status.

[21Kid]

Been a while since I've reviewed mine obviously. :o
due to aliens or magic. Mostly magic. There are so many reasons... one of them is even having too much credit. :lol:

[thesameguy]

I've been told that, but I've never gotten there. I have almost twice my annual income in available revolving credit and nobody seems to care. Maybe nobody has noticed. :D

[TheBenior]

The credit report pulled when I was buying my house said that factors negatively affecting my still excellent score included too many lines of credit and not having any revolving credit.

[21Kid]

Sounds legit. :lol:

[thesameguy]

When your score gets up there, they always present totally normal things as being the negative factors. Someone I get a score from now includes language to convey that, eg, "You have excellent credit, and though they do not impact your score, these are the most negative things on your report." My big negative right now is that I don't have a good loan history. I've financed two cars and a house in my life. WHAT OF IT!? I don't like structured debt!

[George]

^ Dave Ramsey agrees with you.

[TheBenior]

When your score gets up there, they always present totally normal things as being the negative factors. Someone I get a score from now includes language to convey that, eg, "You have excellent credit, and though they do not impact your score, these are the most negative things on your report." My big negative right now is that I don't have a good loan history. I've financed two cars and a house in my life. WHAT OF IT!? I don't like structured debt!
I guess it looked bad that I had four credit cards and that it had been a whole 2 years since I'd paid off my 3rd car note at the age of 31.

[Random]

The credit report pulled when I was buying my house said that factors negatively affecting my still excellent score included too many lines of credit and not having any revolving credit.

I got similar comments on my 800+ credit score. *shrug*

[Tom Servo]

We ended up deciding to go for a slide in oven/range rather than a separate oven and cooktop, which looks like it'll save us a not insignificant bit of money. Met with the contractor and cabinet guy this morning who sketched out the plan. Looks like we'll get an increase in counter space, some extra storage, and a pretty nice pantry.

Now, we wait.

[George]

Possibly helpful tip from a guy who spent 45 minutes this morning shoveling snow from his driveway before work:

This may not matter in sunny LA, where at this minute Tom Servo is probably wearing short-shorts and suntan lotion and nothing else, but perhaps this will be helpful to some.

About a year after moving into house #2, as Random calls it (unless one of those is a simulanously-owned vacation home :eek:), here in Colorado, we discovered old, dry mold underneath the counter, on the drywall inside the drawers and cabinets. It seems there was a leaky kitchen faucet at some point, and some long-ago owners either didn't know or didn't care.

I'll skip all the "OMG! MOLD?! YER GONNA DIE!" stories from the mold-sniffing contractors the insurance company sent out. They removed the countertop and all the moldy drywall underneath. It wasn't a large area - maybe 4 feet by 8 feet, like one full-size sheet of drywall, and installed new drywall and even textured it (beneath the counter? Well...okay, if you insist) and painted it. Everything looked GREAT when they were done, and it still does.

HOWEVER...

When temps get low like they are today, here in February, with a forecast low of 4 degrees F tonight (that's F, not C), we realized that reaching into the cabinets under the countertop in that area for a pot or a pan is asking for frostbite on one's fingers.

My suspicion is they did not install any insulation behind the drywall. I have no way of checking this except cutting holes in the drywall, and it has been eight or nine years since the work was done, so we can hardly complain today, but I just thought I'd mention it for those having kitchen work done.

Watch carefully and constantly. You never know what shortcuts could be taken, either intentionally, or perhaps just through human error:

New kid on the job: "Hey Charlie, are you done with the flooring in the cabinets over here? Can I put on the drywall?"

Charlie, packing up to go home on a Thursday afternoon: "Yep, I'm done with the cabinet floors."

Cleanup guy on Friday morning: "Hmm, I guess they ordered too much insulation for this job and had some left over. I'll just put this back on the truck..."

[thesameguy]

My mom spent the better part of the last 10 years working for an insulation & weatherization company, and her boss, a grizzled old insulation guy, agrees! It's kinda funny when he styles his missing insulation stories as horror stories, but hey, it's his job. One of his favorites is people who spent good money in the last 20 years having radiant barrier installed in attics & crawlspaces by people who don't know what they're doing. Fast forward a few years and the radiant barrier is now laying on the rafters, covered in dust, totally failing to do what it was designed to do, and maybe having the opposite effect. He tells me having regular contractors being responsible for insulation is like having mechanics work on computers.

Insulation (including radiant barrier) is on my to-do list for this winter!

[Random]

About a year after moving into house #2, as Random calls it (unless one of those is a simultaneously-owned vacation home :eek:),

Well, we do still own it, but it's a rental now. Not so glamorous. ;)

[thesameguy]

... but you could take a vacation there if you wanted. You just need to give the occupants 24 hours notice, right? :lol:

[Random]

Is three blocks away a vacation or staycation? Hmm. :lol:

[tigeraid]

Insulation is so hit or miss, even when it's there you don't know if it's working adequately. And a home inspector can only find out so much with visual inspection. Our living room at the ranch is a converted attached garage.

This winter, which has been UNBELIEVABLY mild, that room has been frigid the whole fucking time. I know it's insulated, I had to get into the wall when installing the TV. I also know the home inspector said the attic has insulation over it, perhaps even more than the rest of the house.

But I did my own inspecting, and found a) every single power outlet on the exterior walls had a noticeable draft... and b) the giant picture window at the front (where the garage door once was) was old as shit, but more importantly drafty AROUND the window frame!

So that'll be a future project... spray-foam insulation around the outside of the outlets within the wall, and those little pads to insulate inside the panel as best we can... I put plastic up on the window, which helped a lot, but that window's coming out fairly soon and replaced with something modern--and making sure it's insulated properly around the frame.

[thesameguy]

Our house is an amalgamation of a couple add-ons, and interestingly the newer construction all has pretty high-end glass (per our window guy), but the original construction was cheap even for 1950. We put in new double-pane windows upstairs a couple years ago, and are doing the rest of the house next week. Some of the windows are so drafty there is a breeze in the house. :lol:

[shakes]

I'm finally able to add myself to this thread. Yay! Due to some bad decisions on my part that had some long-term financial reprocussions, my wife and I had to put home-ownership on hold. At 35 I feel like I'm 10 years behind where I should be on the home-ownership journey. I've been pre-approved by a mortgage broker and we're going to look at some properties tomorrow with a realtor. Because I'm in small-town Ontario real estate is dirt cheap. There's no way I could afford to be looking at home ownership if I still lived in the Toronto area. The downside is that property values don't go up nearly as much or as quickly. The other downside is that a lot of places arent on municipal water or sewer (meaning you have a well and a septic tank). And natural gas is not widely available, so you're dealing with electric baseboards or woodstoves for your heating.

[tigeraid]

I've just gone through buying a rural ranch in Ontario, on well and on septic. While I would certainly PREFER sewer and municipal water, neither of them are to be feared. I already feel like an expert--ask away. :hard:

[shakes]

All of the places I've looked at so far have been on municipal services and I'm trying to avoid well and septic. But thats not to say if the right house came along and it happened to be on a well I wouldn't consider it. I'm more concerned about the heat source with a lot of these places. Wood is relatively cheap but labour intensive and it can create problems when trying to get house-insurance. Propane can be scary expensive but it seems to be what a lot of people use as a backup to their wood heat or in conjunction with wood heat. Natural gas is my preferred choice but it is only available in certain areas and (big surprise) those areas are more expensive. Not sure if I want a smaller/crappier house with gas heat or if I want a bigger/newer house with an alternate heat source.

[21Kid]

FYI, in the US... Certain types of mortgages require a well & septic test.

And even if your mortgage doesn't require one, you can make it a condition of the purchase agreement, that it passes a water test. :)

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I've lived in a few houses that had their own well, and it's pretty cheap & easy to install a filter (http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_17?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=whole+house+water+filter&sprefix=whole+house+water+filter%2Caps%2C208).
$50-250 usually.

[Cam]

Freedom is not owning a home.

That said, I'll probably own one eventually. :o

[novicius]

Due to some bad decisions on my part that had some long-term financial reprocussions, my wife and I had to put home-ownership on hold.
Didn't you buy a Lotus Exige? How is that a bad decision?? :lol: :up:

[21Kid]

Freedom is not owning a home.

That said, Lori will probably own one eventually. :o

;)

[thesameguy]

Troof.

[Cam]

;)
Yup, I stand corrected. :(

[shakes]

Didn't you buy a Lotus Exige? How is that a bad decision?? :lol: :up:

No Lotus. Just chased the dream of being my own boss for 5 years barely scraping by, instead of finding myself a decent job working for somebody else.

[21Kid]

At least you gave it a go! :D:up: More than I can say...

[thesameguy]

You know what, it may be a major purchase setback but I think the lessons and skills learned are totally worth it. I was my own boss for 10+ years and even though money was frequently tight I came out the other side with a much better understanding of a lot of things and some excellent experience to draw from. For me too it resulted in pushing back buying a house and some other major expenses, but I wouldn't change a thing. The risk was absolutely worth the reward.

[Tom Servo]

Well, there's no going back now.
(See a couple posts down for image).

[Random]

:up:

[Kchrpm]

Well, there's no going back now.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/u8Wqzv_9_dWf8On9pmvS5GDmXm1JRDpbErbq6JwlSV6UD5V6tO TiJdMv5vsWCiUMwlouvMwfZ_EcO_UOW_2Ym_adyg

Not working :( Google image embedding is so unreliable...

[TheBenior]

Yeah, I saw it last night, and now it's gone.

[Tom Servo]

http://i.imgur.com/dJg1HGX.jpg

Moved to imgur.

[shakes]

How hard is it to get the smoke smell out of a place? The first house we looked at was a owned by a smoker and a couple rooms absolutely reek. It doesn't look like she smoked everywhere because its only certain rooms that smell bad. Is there anything out there on the market that can get rid of the smoke smell? We'd replace the flooring and repaint if we bought it, but would that be enough to get the smell out?

[thesameguy]

There are products which purport to work, but I think typically you're looking at resurfacing everything - floors, walls, ceilings. I'm not sure I'd trust my nose, either - you might find once you get rid of the worst offending rooms, you're then able to smell it elsewhere.

[Random]

Data point: my Mom replaced the carpet, tore down the acoustic ("popcorn") ceiling, and repainted the entire condo to get rid of smoker smell/stains.

[JoshInKC]

Bottom line is you replace everything fabric - carpets, drapes, etc. Then scrub/wipe down all of the painted surfaces with either slightly soapy water or a product designed for the purpose. Finally, paint all painted surfaces (especially ceilings) with Kilz or some other blocking primer - bonus points if its oil based. This is best done with a sprayer, rather than rollers and brushes.

Also, if there's any of the acoustic tiles with all the little holes in them (like you see in office ceilings) Just give up and get rid of them and replace - I know somebody who tried to paint them and they just sucked up gallons of paint and still had visible lines in them at the end.

[Random]

Anyone happen to know where mortgage rates for investment property are sitting currently?

I really wish banks would advertise that rate in addition to their regular rates.

[thesameguy]

I think the lending landscape has changed so dramatically everyone is afraid to. With per-property reserves and whatnot there may be too many variables to advertise.

[TheBenior]

Locally, I've seen rates advertised for multi-unit properties, but not investment single family homes.

[21Kid]

Anyone happen to know where mortgage rates for investment property are sitting currently?

I really wish banks would advertise that rate in addition to their regular rates.

Fixed/ARM?
15yr/30yr?
LTV?
FICO?
Rate & term I take it... no cash-out?

There's a lot of variables. (2% difference just between 75% & 85% LTV.)

FWIW... Most of the loans I see are for refi's under 80% LTV. And they are generally just under 5% on average.

[Random]

Fixed/ARM?
15yr/30yr?
LTV?
FICO?
Rate & term I take it... no cash-out?

There's a lot of variables. (2% difference just between 75% & 85% LTV.)

FWIW... Most of the loans I see are for refi's under 80% LTV. And they are generally just under 5% on average.

15 or 30 fixed
LTV about 40%, maybe less
FICO 800+
No cash out.

[21Kid]

Probably around 4.25% or so.

[Random]

Hmm.

[21Kid]

Like I said though... lots of variables. It's difficult to give an exact answer. Just my best guess.

The general rule of thumb is to look into it if your rate will drop by 1%. Depends on the $ amount too. The % difference drops the higher the value.
However, it's not always worth it if you've had the mortgage for more than a few years, as you pay most of the interest up front.

PM me (here or on hangouts) if you want to talk about anything, without all the normal loan officer sales talk. ;)

[Kchrpm]

Can I message you on Hangouts about a -5% interest loan???? ;) ;) ;) ;)

[21Kid]

you could... But, I could tell you right now what I would say. :finger:

[shakes]

Meeting with the realtor tonight to put in an offer on this place. https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.0756408,-80.99854,3a,75y,188.3h,75.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swu4QAAUGIwdYJExPgKD7_Q!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656?hl=en

It needs updating in the kitchen and bathroom and the basement is unfinished, but its got a ton of potential and is on almost an acre of property with municipal water and sewer. Its not perfect but I dont think we're going to find anything as nice for what the owners are asking.

[Tom Servo]

We just had the last of the appliances show up, so now we're just waiting on the cabinets. Two payments to go on the contractor. We've moved probably 65-70% of our stuff to the new place. It's starting to feel real.

[thesameguy]

We were/are fortunate that our place is big enough that we just shuffle stuff around as we work. Last year the upstairs was abandoned as we did work up there, now the downstairs is. Moving around the house means that is always feels fresh and new. :lol:

We are not in any hurry to do anything. Everything works, we are comfortable, and we are not going anywhere. If it takes 50 years to make it perfect that's cool.

[Kchrpm]

I'm often tempted to find a place around here with a pool, for various personal and social reasons. I have to keep reminding myself how expensive it has to have a pool (upkeep and insurance), despite the reasonable prices I've seen around here for homes with pools.

[thesameguy]

A pool would be cool to have, but for me it's one of those things the novelty would quickly wear off and then it'd be little more than an ongoing cost. Like a boat. Or snowmobiles. Or non-alcoholic beer.

[21Kid]

You also get 0% return on it if you plan on selling. Most people don't want a pool and see it as a nuisance or liability.




I'd like to have one also however.

[Kchrpm]

A pool would be cool to have, but for me it's one of those things the novelty would quickly wear off

The novelty of who I could get to come over to enjoy the pool might not wear off. #single Or it might never bear fruit. #realistic

[George]

I've heard that adding a pool to an existing home can reduce the value, since many people don't want the hassle or the expense.

Like boats, I'd rather have a friend with one than to own one myself.

[Kchrpm]

Yeah. I have told my friend he should get a pool, and he has considered it. I have also considered just getting a place with an outdoor jacuzzi.

But the young ladies who tell me during the summer that they wish they could go to the pool, I want to tell them to come to my place...I understand that is a dumb reason to make a major investment, but it *is* a reason.

[thesameguy]

I'm going to beg to differ with you there... if it brings the ladies, it's a good reason to make a major investment. I'd do it. The question in my mind is whether you can reliably do that more than a handful of times. I'd just need some convincing that it would. ;)

FWIW, I think the hot tub is a great alternative - and has the advantage of being a nice draw at night. Add in a good collection of wine & booze and you're set. Frankly, IME, a well-stocked liquor cabinet is almost all you need. Maybe throw in a slip & slide and a two-waterfall-head shower. YEAH!

[Tom Servo]

Finally got internet hooked up at the new place. Those last 5 days were gettin' kinda dicey, thought I was going to have to resort to self cannibalism for a bit there.

[Yw-slayer]

Looking at Battersea and Oxford.

[Random]

Finally got internet hooked up at the new place. Those last 5 days were gettin' kinda dicey, thought I was going to have to resort to self cannibalism for a bit there.

How's the kitchen remodel going?

[Tom Servo]

The cabinets just got finished up yesterday. The countertop is supposed to go in Monday, and then at that point I think the only things left are appliance installations and the backsplash. Contractor says that they'll be done by Thursday, but, like many contractors, he has a tenuous grasp of timing.

Definitely wouldn't go with this guy again. Michele and I both completely understand that when something's delayed and it's a dependency, the whole project gets shifted. What's bad about it is that he doesn't keep us up to date on it, and then doesn't make sure that one of us is home when he sends workers out. We've had times where we were both at work and a crew came out and couldn't get in. Then he occasionally forgets about dependencies altogether.

When we moved in, the previous owner had bought a new fridge with water & ice dispensers on the front. The fridge is a fair distance from the water line, so she ran a pipe from by the sink to by the fridge. However, they just installed it on the floor in front of the cabinets, lying there. So, since we were removing the cabinets, we asked if the line could be re-run behind the cabinets. Contractor said "Oh, we'll re-run it in the wall." Cabinet guys show up and I ask them if they're also going to install the water line, and they look at me like "what the fuck are you talking about." Frantically call the contractor trying to get him to tell us if he'd already done it and we didn't know, and he panics and has them stop work and has to send someone out to grind a big hole in the wall. Then he tries to tell us that we hadn't asked for that and it wasn't part of the work. Thankfully, as mentioned, he acquiesced and we got that fixed. Oh, and he forgot to tell us that we were responsible for getting the pull handles for the cabinets, so we only found out when the cabinet installers told us on Wed. that they were coming back Thursday to install them, and asked where they were. Then we had to make an emergency trip to the hardware store to try to track some down. Got all but the ones for the biggest drawers, and those we won't have for another 5 days or so.

Still...getting closer.

http://i.imgur.com/wP04aFN.jpg

[Jason]

Jesus, those guys are idiots.

[Tom Servo]

Holy christ, I'm so close to losing my shit on Time Warner Cable. It's too bad there aren't really any other options out here when it comes to fast internet. Then again, the internet I'm not having a problem with, maybe I can get DirecTV for the TV stuff.

On the flipside, I got a Logitech Harmony Elite to deal with the fact that some of the components my wife wants hidden, and it's fucking awesome. The RF receiver works perfectly and has no problem sending IR signals to my devices, and now I can control everything with the remote, my tablet, or my phone. I can totally fuck with my wife while she's watching TV.

[Random]

Free market! :assclown:

[Jason]

Brian, if you tell them to not bother with TV, and that you're going to switch to DirecTV, they'll probably get your shit fixed real quick.

[Tom Servo]

Finally managed to get them to send a tech out, so he'll be here tomorrow. They've already called twice (once at 8 in the morning) in attempts to get out of doing it though.

What's most irritating is that they basically refuse to listen. I'll spend five minutes trying to explain to them that their DVR is working, but my Tivo isn't, and that it's probably a cablecard auth issue. They'll make me go through all the same steps they always do, then ask me if their DVR is working. "Yes...it is still working, and the Tivo still isn't."

[TheBenior]

At my old apartment I had DirecTV for TV and Comcast for internet. Comcast was the only option for decent internet, as my other option was slooooooow DSL.

When I bought my house, bundling made just going with Comcast the cheapest option altogether with the fastest internet. I miss DirecTV's UI, which I thought was superior to Comcast. A Comcast installation guy actually agreed with me on that one :lol:

[Tom Servo]

This is why I still have a Tivo, despite all the hoops I have to jump through. It's also the same reason I don't have DirecTV, because the FCC only made cable companies do cablecard and satellite can tell me and my Tivo to fuck off.

In other news, items I never thought I'd be buying include a studfinder and fancier wall anchors. I did just successfully install a couple of towel racks and am feeling vaguely like a boss.

[Tom Servo]

Cable is finally sorted, countertops and sink are in place. One more check to go on the remodel now, and it's a small one. Getting closer...

[Jason]

:up:

[Tom Servo]

Big setback a couple of days ago when it turns out this (small) complex has only one gas shutoff valve, there are no shutoffs to the individual condos. So, that meant I got to tell all the neighbors that their gas and hot water were going to be out. Did it today from 12-3, but that meant we were able to move the gas line in the kitchen from up near the top of the counters for a cooktop to down near the floor for the range. With that, we now have the range & range hood installed. All the appliances are in place. All that's left are some miscellaneous cleanup items - they somehow broke our ice maker, we're missing a lightswitch, stuff like that.

The finish line is finally close.

http://i.imgur.com/WAFMzgZ.jpg

Here's what it used to look like.

http://i.imgur.com/Zb0Cpdc.jpg

[George]

All that's left are some miscellaneous cleanup items - they somehow broke our ice maker, we're missing a lightswitch, stuff like that.

The finish line is finally close.

Congrats, man! Looks great.

In my experience, you will always have stuff like broken ice makers to fix. It never ends!

:runs screaming from house:



:reconsiders equity gained, and runs back in, despite massive chore list:



Edited to add: Ooh, just noticed double-decker oven and gas stove with cast iron on-top-thingamabobs. :up:

We have an electric stove which begs the question: why even bother?

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, we went sorta all out on the oven. We cook all the time, and we often use a griddle pan over two burners, so having the one long central burner seemed like a no brainer. Michele also wanted double ovens, and we were going to do a wall mount until basically everyone we mentioned it to said "don't, they're a pain in the ass, just get a standalone range".

The LG wasn't priced too ultra crazy, but it had one of the largest capacities we found for the two ovens. We just had to make sure one of them was large enough to fit a turkey since we never cook anything larger than that. Then I checked on consumer reports for double-oven standalones and this was their recommended model. That's good enough for me.

I'm looking forward to trying it out when making NY steak & baked potatoes. I've always had to do this whole thing juggling the potatoes at 400 and the oven at 500 to finish off the steaks after searing them on the stove. Now I can just use both ovens, and that's going to be awesome.

Tonight is the first night we've been able to cook a meal in our own house. We're making grilled cheese. They're going to be so good...

[Yw-slayer]

Congrats, bro! That oven and sink look sweet.

[novicius]

Damn sharp -- I'd rent it! :lol: :up:

[21Kid]

nice! :cool::up:

[tigeraid]

I'm super jelly of those 'pliances. Good work.

[Tom Servo]

Just got my latest bank statement. Now the tears begin.

[Random]

Indeed.

[Godson]

I cry lightly at least once a month.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Very nice...

but hate to break it to ya... soon, you may cry again because somebody is going to complain that the fridge no longer matches the rest of the kitchen... :p

Wonder if there's a cheap solution to resurface old fridges with stainless steel facesheets...

[Tom Servo]

Oh, I know. Neither does the dishwasher.

The good news is, the mortgage is actually less than rent was. Property tax puts it up above, but ideally neither of those two things will go up like the rent kept doing. So, over time it should be easier to save up for things like a new fridge and dishwasher.

And washing machine and dryer.

[Godson]

Property tax should (?) be figured into your mortgage payment. I know mine is.

[Tom Servo]

It is, but I was specifically breaking out the actual mortgage payment vs. the full payment we make to the mortgage company.

[Crazed_Insanity]

CA we pay them separately. Mortgage payments stay the same every month and will only last 15 or 30 yrs, but property tax will rise slightly every year and will go on as long as we own the place... so it's probably better to separate the two IMHO.

Of course, when budgeting, we ought to figure them all in together, including insurance and doing all the upkeeps over the years... cost of owning a home for sure isn't cheaper or easier than renting... of course the benefit is that you end up owning something rather than nothing.

[Tom Servo]

I pay them together, it's basically put into an escrow and then paid out when tax time comes. I think it generally depends on your mortgage company, and with some you can choose whether you have them lumped in together into one payment or if you are responsible for paying the property taxes when that time comes.

[Conman]

oven at 500 to finish off the steaks after searing them on the stove

Try reverse sear. Start in oven and sear at the end.

[Tom Servo]

I've thought about that, but I've long been a fan of doing the finishing in a cast iron skillet, keeps the outside nice and browned. Maybe one of these days I'll try the other way.

[Godson]

Sous vidé is the way to go.

[Tom Servo]

Went to go barbecue for the first time since moving in. Got the coals in the chimney starter all nice and hot, went to go pour them in the grill only to find out that somehow we lost the inner charcoal grate during the move. Oops.

On the plus side, that gave me an excuse to make the steaks on the new range/oven and that went well. Then we went to go use the dishwasher for the first time, only to have it start spraying water into the cabinet under the sink. Our contractor keeps trying to say that the dishwasher is defective, saying "You never tried to use it before, how do you know it worked?" and refusing to believe that something went wrong when they re-installed it. Had a nice argument this morning, but I think that's all settled now that we just found in the home inspection report from when we were looking to buy the place that the dishwasher was tested and was working fine.

My life will be so much better when this guy is no longer part of it.

[SkylineObsession]

Blarg, crappy plasticy pipes in the wall of bathroom leaking for a month or more and making the wall and floor under bath soaking wet and turning some wall beams into crushable-by-hand wood and a stupidly oversized hole in floor for the bath drain allowing a rodents nest under the bath and large garden spiders to find their way into bathroom and now the suggestion by plumbers to replace all the pipes to get them out of the wall and to replace a section of floor and some boards in the walls which means we have to fast track bathroom renovations which is fine at this stage because we haven't yet looked at the price of a new bath and shower cubicle and so on but i'm sure when we do we will start crying and get fat on chips and icecream until we can't work and thus can't pay the mortgage which will result in having to leave the house which also means we won't have to worry about the bathroom anymore.

Hmmm.

Nah.

Why do people cheap out when doing things to their houses. It's mean to the people who live in there later on. People like that are meanies. They are probably big, and fat too.

[21Kid]

We are on the ground floor in a ground unit... All plumbing pipes run through the interior wall right outside our bedroom door... and it's not insulated... and they used plastic pipes. It's louder when my neighbors take a shower or use the bathroom then when we do. :mad:

I'm just glad we don't own it. I'd be tearing the wall apart to insulate it. It's that loud.

Oh, and the gas furnace & water heater are in the hallway across from my daughters room. They used slotted bi-fold closet doors to enclose it. :| Why even bother?

[TheBenior]

We are on the ground floor in a ground unit... All plumbing pipes run through the interior wall right outside our bedroom door... and it's not insulated... and they used plastic pipes. It's louder when my neighbors take a shower or use the bathroom then when we do. :mad:

I'm just glad we don't own it. I'd be tearing the wall apart to insulate it. It's that loud.

Oh, and the gas furnace & water heater are in the hallway across from my daughters room. They used slotted bi-fold closet doors to enclose it. :| Why even bother?

So... standard early to mid 2000s housing bubble-era condo construction?

[21Kid]

:finger:


Yup.

[TheBenior]

The single floor condo my buddy owned that I lived in for 3 years pretty much had the same things going on. Furnace and water heater just outside of his bedroom. Washer/dryer was basically just outside of my bedroom (great when I worked nights and he did laundry while occasionally working from home during the day). Cheapass water heaters, of which the one in the unit above us failed within 3 years, and I think one of the two in the first floor/basement duplex down did as well. Oh, and no insulation in the walls, which probably saved the builders less than two grand for the whole 3 story building. :twitch:

[Tom Servo]

I had an apartment like that, but thankfully the new townhouse isn't like that. There are definitely things they skimped out on unfortunately, but the plumbing, water heater, and insulation are not part of that list.

[shakes]

We've got another offer in on a property. After getting dicked around the first time we attempted to do this, and then not having anything come on to the market in our area and in our price range I was almost ready to give up searching and just make myself content in the rental townhouse we've got. The house we're looking at is a 2 storey, double brick home built in the 1940s. Its got a new kitchen, new bathroom, and upgraded wiring. It will need a new roof and its got a propane fired furnace and an electric water heater. My preference would be for natural gas heat and hot water but its not widely available around here. The homes that have it are just a bit out of reach financially. The sellers have until tomorrow at midnight to respond, so hopefully I have some good news to share tomorrow.

[novicius]

Good luck! :up:

[Tom Servo]

Good luck! :up:

What he said!

[shakes]

1659

Suprisingly, there was not a lot of back-and-forth. In fact there wasn't any. The seller's took my initial offer and agreed to replace the roof prior to closing. Thats my new house, I move sometime in August.

[Tom Servo]

Congratulations, that's great!

[thesameguy]

That is a nice looking domicile!

[Random]

Four-square?

Looks nice! :)

[George]

Nice! Congratulations. Looks GREAT.

[shakes]

It looks a lot bigger from the outside than it actually is. Inside there's probably about 1500 square feet above grade plus 300 or so in the finished part of basement. The previous owners also finished the attic but the only access is a set of stairs IN the master bedroom. I'm trying to figure out a way to inexpensively turn the master bedroom into a master-plus-loft room. I have the home inspection next week so I'll have to wait until then to get back into the place and take some measurements.

[Crazed_Insanity]

There's no 'inexpensive' way of doing anything to the house! Either gets charged a lot to have the pros do it...or expending exhaustive amount of energy doing it yourself! :p

Anyway, which ever way you do it, it'll be a worthwhile investment! Congrats dude!

[Tom Servo]

We are done. It is over. The kitchen remodel is finally finished. I love it. I hate our contractor. I love our subcontractor, and am super happy that we have his direct contact now.

It still all feels very weird, to know that we own this place and can basically do what we want. I guess 21 years of renting will do that to someone.

[TheBenior]

I'll be right over with a housewarming gift in early October.

[Kchrpm]

GTXFP AT SWERVO'S!!!

[thesameguy]

The problem I have found with home ownership is that it causes me to think in much longer terms than I really like to. Had to have a painful discussion the other night about really not wanting to be stuck making a mortgage payment into retirement. What the actual fuck! I was *completely* happy renting - I liked outsourcing that entire component of my life. Something breaks? Not my problem. That's awesome cost control! But seeing my almost-MIL's struggles with under/unemployment and perpetually rising rental costs I got The Fear. What happens if you're 70, likely unemployable, and your landlord raises the rent or sells the property? All your financial planning is completely hosed!

So I bought a house, and I bought a house on some land I figured I could probably die in if I wanted to. Plenty of space, reasonable location, an upstairs that can be completely ignored if I don't want to or am unable to go upstairs. And, on a fair amount of land potentially making it attractive down the road. Seemed like a good bet. I am fairly confident that there will never be a reason to move again. But shiiiiiii... paying a mortgage past when I'm collecting SSI? I DON'T WANT TO THINK IN THOSE TERMS.

Now we're talking about a refi into a 15 year. I think we can get a better rate (4.375 now, I am virtually positive I can hit 3.5 and maybe 3.0) and I can swing the increased payment. That would save like $70,000 in interest (!!!!) and get the house paid off while I'm still, in theory, employed. That's a nice setup for getting old. BUT I DON'T WANT TO THINK IN THOSE TERMS.

(The silver lining, so to speak, is that *if* the house is paid off and the area continues to appreciate we could be sitting on enough money to move somewhere cheaper and retire early. Not having to work makes me happy. Coming up with realistic retirement scenarios is a complete misuse of my brain as far as I'm concerned.)

Bah. Anyway, we just finished putting dual pane windows throughout the house and are replacing substantial pieces of the floor with hardwood. Replaced all the kitchen appliances in December. Have been working on new window coverings throughout and that's almost done. New paint through almost all of downstairs. I need to get back to work on the garage doors - things got delayed with the dog's reinjury and El Nino, but I need to wrap that up. Plan is to finish everything in the next 30 days and start the refi process so we can relax and wait to die.

[Kchrpm]

My parents (IIRC) got a 30-year mortgage and planned to pay it off in 15.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mort payment is only 15/30 years and won't ever increase. Rent will rise and you'll be paying it forever. Yes, you don't have to fix anything in your apt, but even if a big earthquake completely destroys your home, you could probably sell your land and comfortably retire in Mexico or something...

Don't be discouraged... Home ownership is a good deal. We even have government subsidies (mort interest/property tax deductions!). Unless you're a traveling salesman, it doesn't make sense to not own a home if you can afford it in the US.

[Tom Servo]

The city just released a list of all the condo & apartment complexes that have to have an earthquake retrofit throughout the city. Both the complex to the north of us and to the south of us need it, but we don't. Woot!

[Random]

Do they say why? (Just curious)

[thesameguy]

My parents (IIRC) got a 30-year mortgage and planned to pay it off in 15.

We would actually do the same... well, we'd be paying it off in 21 years since we've got six in the hole, but whatever. It just so happens we can win a potentially significant interest rate reduction with a refi so we're probably going to do it. Even if it costs seven grand (FML) to refi, the long term savings from the interest rate deduction is multiple tens of thousands of dollars. Since our current best plan is to never move again, it seems a worthwhile course of action. If it happened to turn out we could get the same rate for either commitment, we'd do another 30 just to have the flexibility, but since we can commit to a 15 if there's an interest rate incentive to do it, we will.

I really wish we could do one of those cookie cutter flat-fee refis, but all those require a 60% LTV and we aren't there. Seems we'll be doing a conventional refi which will cost more, but hopefully we can avoid paying any points. It seems most the big banks offer a 0 point ~3.1% on a 15 year. I can't imagine not qualifying for that rate, but who the hell knows? Worst case, there are 0 point 3.5% rates, so that's the spread.

[Tom Servo]

Do they say why? (Just curious)

"Soft Stories": http://www.latimes.com/visuals/graphics/la-g-retrofiitting-wood-frame-soft-story-buildings-20151005-htmlstory.html

[Random]

And yours wasn't built that way, or was it already retrofitted with shear walls/moment frames?

[Random]

I really wish we could do one of those cookie cutter flat-fee refis, but all those require a 60% LTV and we aren't there. Seems we'll be doing a conventional refi which will cost more, but hopefully we can avoid paying any points. It seems most the big banks offer a 0 point ~3.1% on a 15 year. I can't imagine not qualifying for that rate, but who the hell knows? Worst case, there are 0 point 3.5% rates, so that's the spread.

A zero point, low fee refi to 3% seems like a pretty attractive option... We'd love to re-fi our rental (currently at 4.625%), but the rates for investment properties aren't nearly as low as for owner-occupied.

Make sure you are comparing the interest savings of the new loan to the remaining interest on your current loan, BTW.

[Tom Servo]

And yours wasn't built that way, or was it already retrofitted with shear walls/moment frames?

Wasn't built that way, but I didn't know that when I first saw the "search this database to see if you your building needs retrofitting". It's more obvious now - we don't have that dingbat style of first floor parking.

[Random]

Oh, heh, yeah. That's the easiest way to not have a soft story. :D

[thesameguy]

Make sure you are comparing the interest savings of the new loan to the remaining interest on your current loan, BTW.

Yeah - bankrate.com has a bunch of calculators very useful for these types of transactions...

http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/refinance-calculator.aspx

There is a lot of money on the table here with just a small monthly pinch to save it. :)

[LHutton]

Some banks have negative interest rates on mortgages right now.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/01/30/1361242/-Negative-interest-rate-mortgages-have-arrived-In-Denmark

If you ask me this is all heading to FUBAR again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/savings/9899824/How-negative-interest-rates-would-affect-savings-and-mortgages.html

[21Kid]

There's another thing to consider when paying mortgages off early... Future value of money.

Long ago, my grandma bought her house for $15k, with monthly payments of just over $100. That seems pretty low today. Imagine how low your current payment will look 30 years from now.

Paying it down sooner reduces the overall amount that you'll pay in interest, due to compounding interest. (Converse of how retirement account interest works.) Buuuuut, most mortgage interest is tax deductible. ;) So if you itemize your taxes, you can write it off. :D

[thesameguy]

I do write it off - but a dollar paid in interest is not a dollar saved on taxes, so you're still better off not having paid it in the first place. Regardless, my motivation for a 15 year plan is so that when I retire I am not saddled with a huge piece of structured debt I have to work into my financial plan. Going into retirement with that piece of my monthly nut out of the equation is enormous peace of mind. It may even facilitate a slightly early retirement, or a relocation to a less expensive place to live. I mean, in theory I'll have a lot of good working years saving that money. All good things. That I don't like thinking about. But have to.

[TheBenior]

There's another thing to consider when paying mortgages off early... Future value of money.

Long ago, my grandma bought her house for $15k, with monthly payments of just over $100. That seems pretty low today. Imagine how low your current payment will look 30 years from now.

Paying it down sooner reduces the overall amount that you'll pay in interest, due to compounding interest. (Converse of how retirement account interest works.) Buuuuut, most mortgage interest is tax deductible. ;) So if you itemize your taxes, you can write it off. :D

Hell, rental prices are so high in Chicago right now that renting my house would be $300-600 more than my mortgage is, and I only put 5% down. I keep thinking that there's a rental bubble (especially downtown, where they keep building rental towers with hundreds of units), but it's been like that for a few years now.

Since last year was the first year that I paid a full year of mortgage interest, it actually made sense to itemize and I got back more than I ever had in the past. Of course, more than half of that is going back into a new roof for the house.

[21Kid]

Yup. :cool::up:

Rent prices are high all over the place. :( I'd like to stop renting... But, not knowing where we will be living in a year makes that rather difficult.

[novicius]

My rent is relatively cheap and I like that just fine. :up:

(When we're ready to move then I'll consider buying again.)

[thesameguy]

I strongly, strongly believe that home ownership is highly overrated. The only crap part is that being old in America is highly underappreciated.

[Crazed_Insanity]

As long as we can have mortgage interest and other housing related tax deductions(pretty much government subsidy) and as long as we can own the land too, home ownership should be well worth it. Living on an RV or sailboat would be more fun of course, but due to the lack of land, they all depreciate!

In a way, I think this isn't fair. Renters should also be given some sort of tax deductions too or there really shouldn't be any deductions whatsoever for encouraging borrowing money to buy a home. Further, government should just lease lands... anything that cannot be artificially manufactured and or moved around by humans shouldn't be 'owned'. With the current system, as time goes on, land owners will only get richer and the non-land owners will only get poorer.

With regard to being a senior citizen..., I actually think that's not very wise to be old and live in your own home. You can't fix anything or maintain the yard yourself anymore. Might as well rent so you can have fixed stable expenses without any surprises by having everything taken care of by the apt manager for you...

I just might sell my home and go live on cruise ships to travel the world... and after I spent all my money and if Jesus still hasn't decided to take me home yet, then I'll just accidentally fall overboard or something...

[thesameguy]

I spoke to my mortgage lender yesterday about the refi - it's BOFA, I hate those fuckers, but called hoping there might be a shortcut by refinancing with the same bank. The guy I spoke with said they could probably do a mortgage adjustment since the house hasn't depreciated and the L2V is solid. He suggested but didn't say with a modification there are almost no fees, but I'm wondering if anybody knows what "almost no fees" actually means, and if there's anything I should be on the lookout for. I'd *really* prefer to take the business from BOFA (you may recall from earlier I hate those fuckers), but if a modification saves typical refinance costs I guess I'm game. Anyone ever done a non-distressed loan modification? I'd never even heard of it until yesterday.

[21Kid]

I'd be very careful what he means by modification... Most modifications show negatively on your credit report. "Mortgage modification is a process where the terms of a mortgage are modified outside the original terms of the contract agreed to by the lender and borrower" So basically, you change the original terms of the loan, and it shows on your credit. Most of them are done for people who are underwater. I've never heard them being done for someone that was current. (I say most, because I've never heard of it, but it could be a special product that I haven't heard of yet). But, this is from FNMA... "In most cases, when your mortgage is modified, you can reduce your monthly payment to a more affordable amount. A modification may be an option if: You are ineligible to refinance. You are facing a long-term hardship. You are several months behind on your mortgage payments or likely to fall behind soon."

That's why they show up negatively on credit bureaus.

He could just be talking about a rate/term refi where you only pay the appraisal. They make up the rest of the fees in the rate. So, if your rate is still relatively high, the lower amount can absorb the fees.

And it's LTV, btw... ;)

[thesameguy]

BOFA's stupid website says the same thing about "modification" - I could find no documentation about a product for people in good shape and that's what gave me pause. That is not a note I want associated with my situation. Intellectually, it seems like banks would want to offer a product like modification purely for the purposes of rate reduction in a market like we've got. If a refi is a refi then I'm going to shop around, but if the bank I'm with can offer something simpler and less costly and retain my business that's a win for them. In this particular situation, if BOFA cannot offer some sort of deal and I'm going to paying normal costs, I will absolutely be taking the business elsewhere... the only reason I'm with them in the first place is the original loan was a broker and BOFA picked it up. I would never have chosen them.

If he is talking about a rate/term refi and called it a "modification" that seems for lack of a better term misleading. And, dude I spoke with yesterday promised a call by noon today with additional information if not a formal offer... it's 12:15 now. So.... we're off to a very typical BOFA misinformation & empty promises relationship. :up:

(L2V is also correct - just depends on the lender... plenty of Google results for it WRT to mortgages :) LVR is also used - as in loan value ratio.)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think you can probably save more by avoiding one of those major banks who've received financial bailouts! :p

I refi'ed with absolutely no cost to me thru a friend. She works at an independent loan place and Flagstar bank in the end gave us the best deal. Of course I'm sure my friend made some money out of it... she had been making a killing doing refinancing due to the low rates in the past few years..., but anyway, at least on paper, I paid no upfront cost and reduced my payments by more than a couple of hundred dollars a month.

[21Kid]

Maybe he's just using the current *buzzword*... :? :shrug:

If that's what you people want to use, that's fine. :p If someone asked me what L2V was I'd probably have to search the internet to find out. No one in the industry uses that term.

Banks don't offer lower rates similarly to how cable companies don't offer long term customers lower rates. Except there are a lot of regulations that go into mortgages. One cannot simply change the terms of a note. ;)

Rate/term refi's have lower rates than cash-out refi's though. So, they can be cheaper.

[thesameguy]

Believe me, I am not thrilled about being involved with BOFA.... buuuuuuuuuuut my immediate backup plan would be to switch to Chase. :lol: I've seriously considered one of the internet banks, but when it comes to something like this I'm just not quite there. We'll see, though. I don't rule anything out when a lifetime of cash is on the table.

The thing about that cable company analogy is that if you call your cable company it's a rare day they won't offer you a deal. I "maintain" about 10 Comcast circuits, for example, and I make 10 phone calls a year that go something like, "Looks like my promotion expired, what do you have for me now?" It's highly unusual for them to say no. If they do, I call AT&T and move the business, no worries. That applies here, too - I ran my calculations, I know the money that's on the table, and I know there are organizations who will make that a positive for me. If BOFA makes it easy, they'll keep the business. Otherwise, it just ends up being a dumb, mercenary cost decision and they lose like eighty grand. Poof.

These legacy businesses need to get it through their thick idiot skulls that the days of leading consumers through ignorance is over. Everyone has every answer to every question at their fingertips - you can't lock them down just by suggesting that change is difficult or not worthwhile, because they'll find out you're being disingenuous without much trouble. BOFA has two choices: Give me a reason to stay, or give me a reason to leave. It can only be one of the two.

About six or seven years ago I had a pretty good BOFA credit card. I called them one day and told them to improve my terms or I'd leave. I left, ending a 12 year relationship with them. Chase picked up that business and we've had a good relationship since. I WON'T HESITATE TO DO IT AGAIN!!!!! :lol:

[thesameguy]

The guy who dropped "loan modification" never called back. Well, I waited four days which as far as I'm concerned is never. I placed a second call to BofA primarily to call attention to the fact that they suck, and I was immediately transferred to a supervisor-level person who apologized and "personally" handed me to a different loan processor. This guy actually seemed on top of things, also apologized, and said it was clear they had a bad banana in the bunch as "loan modification" has nothing to do with healthy loans. He asked for a shot, and I gave it to him. He came back with a 3.25%/3.3x% APR to which I said "No thanks, I have better offers elsewhere, thanks for trying." He put me on hold for a second and came back with "How does 3% flat, no points sound?" I told him it sounded good. I could probably do better if I tried. But not much better, and probably not without a lot of trying. This was two weeks ago, and everything is just about wrapped up. The idea of having the house paid off while I'm still working would be amazing. :up:

UNRELATED, does anybody know anything about construction adhesives? I'm talking about things like Liquid Nails. We have a bathroom closet which is where the water heater used to go. I want to finish the inside and actually build in some shelves. The closet is ply, but the bathroom cabinets are built around it so I don't have the opportunity to really modify it. I can't really drive fasteners from the outside in to hold the shelves as they'd be easily visible, and I can't drive fasteners out as the ply is only 3/4" thick, not much for a screw to bite into without poking out into the world. What I'm planning on doing is using "squares" of wood glued to the inside walls of the cabinet to hold the shelves, sort of a brick & mortar style of construction. I guess the details aren't important... question is, is Liquid Nails really like nails?

Unrelated to that, I long time ago, elsewhere, I posted about some deteriorated Boston Acoustics 555X speakers I have. I've been using them as a step stool for the dog so she can see out the window. YEAH TECHNOLOGY! I have since freed up a Yamaha RX-V367 receiver, and I'm going to relocate it to the garage. I found that Parts Express has some pretty inexpensive impedance-matching speaker switches, so I'm going to rehab the Bostons and build a cheap-ass multizone speaker system... garage + workshop + patio. The drivers on the Bostons are 8ohm units with 142mm mounting ears, and I found a few possible candidates for replacement - Peerless 830656, Tymphany FSL-0512R01-08, and Swan HiVi M5A. The first two are also carried by Parts Express, the last one is discontinued but can be had via ebay. The Peerless is a full-range, the Tymphany is a PA, and the Swan is a midbass. I am leaning towards the Tymphany as I'm not expected a great listening experience in the garage, it has the best power handling, and it should be durable. What's shitty is that I'm going to spend about $50 per speaker to rehab, and for about $70 I can buy completely new, probably as-good speakers already assembled. I have a pair of Pinnacle monitors that haven't done anything in a long time that can go in the garage, leaving me with having to source only an outdoor speaker or two. Somewhere I saw some cheap ones - I wish I remembered where is was.

The only reason I am thinking about this stuff is that we're approaching the final stretch of 2016 Home Projects. This past week we ripped out the carpet upstairs anticipating a hardwood installation next week... but found the entire upstairs had been vinyl tiled. We thought it was just the closets, but it was the entire floor... they just put carpet over it at some point. I've spent the last week of my life removing baseboard, tack strip, carpet, carpet pad, and 1' square tiles. About 1200 of them. Now it looks like this:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=761A647D1BA02FAC!18638&authkey=!AEijXx_4fULz9PI&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

Just plywood and glue, which is lots of fun to walk on. The bed of the Ford is full of garbage which gives me guilt. But, I'm basically down to the upstairs bathroom. This time next week, there will be fresh floor and I will be done. No, that's lies. Then I get to install a few hundred feet of baseboard and put all the furniture back.

And then count down the days to 2017 Home Projects, where I tackle the bar, kitchen, laundry room, and den. No. Fun.

[21Kid]

Good thing you got a hold of someone competent. :up:

re: liquid nails. I used to build subwoofer boxes in cars and went through quite a bit of the stuff. I broke a couple of them apart on purpose, and the wood would break before the liquid nails joint would. Granted it was just 3/4 MDF. But still, I was impressed.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Never tried liquid nails. Home Depot has lots of pretty awful reviews for it..., but for your application, it might work. At least according to 21kid's testimony..., but I'd recommend gluing and square bar to the wall of your shelf to maximize contact area. You also need to figure out how to hold that 'bar' in place for 10 minutes!

[thesameguy]

The assembly should be pretty strong - imagine a bunch of stacked n and you can visualize how it's build. The uprights of the n are glued to the sides of the closet, then a shelf is placed across the top. Repeat until the closet is full. I can hold the uprights in with either spacers I make or something like cinder blocks - unfortunately there is nothing to clamp to. Once it's all assembled, I could maybe use L brackets to secure the shelf to the upright, but I'm not sure that's necessary.

The OTHER possibility I'm thinking about is finishing the inside of the closet, with a nice ply, and then using adjustable shelf rails like this:

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/937/247/358/358247937_969.jpg

The adjustability would be nice, but I think it might look a little corny. You get used to seeing certain types of assembly in a house, and this isn't that. ;) It's on the table though.

Either way, I need to use an adhesive to finish at least one side. The other two I can probably drill into, although one is plaster and that is *no fun*. It should also be noted that I have about zero woodworking skills. Not my bag. This is a major undertaking for me. I am definitely going to (sadly) waste a bunch of wood trying to get this right.

[Crazed_Insanity]

We have bunch of adjustable shelves like that in our closets and pantry. Doesn't look that good, but it's not like you have a glass window... I love the adjustability and durability of these things.

However glueing on wooden blocks are definitely cheaper.

[Random]

Yeah, my office closet is all adjustable shelves like that. Love 'em.

[mk]

be noted that I have about zero woodworking skills.
Factory measurements between shelves then.

If picture style from the back then you're giving away quite a bit of support.

How about a plate with holes?
Can be much slimmer structure and still have the strength.

[thesameguy]

I am going to try and find this system:

http://assets.rockler.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/720x720/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/1/21999-01-1000.jpg

I think I am capable of this, and the nice thing about this setup is that it doesn't tangibly encroach on the storage area and I can get four points of support. Since the interior walls could be just three pieces of wood, I can use angle brackets at specific points to reinforce them against themselves to assist the glue. Should be a solid solution.

[Random]

You can also get pre-drilled shelf sides at Home Depot, FWIW: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Melamine-White-Shelf-Drilled-Board-Common-3-4-in-x-15-3-4-in-x-8-ft-Actual-0-75-in-x-15-75-in-x-97-in-371693/202089062

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, Random's solution should be easier and probably cheaper...

[thesameguy]

It might be cheaper, but it turns out to not be materially easier. The closet is about 23" deep on one side, and 21" deep on the other, so I'd need one length of that pre-drilled stuff plus padding on either side to fully finish it. It's a lot of cuts and a lot of pieces that need to be glued in place. The shelf pilaster arrangement requires only three pieces (left, back, right) and four cuts with a dado to recess the pilasters. It's just less pieces. If the predrilled board was available in a wider format that I could narrow (did I mention the two sides of the closet are different effective depths?), I'd be *all over it* - but since I need to finish the entire inside of the cabinet (it's jenky plywood on one side, lath & plaster on the other two) I don't think the predrilled works as cleanly.

[Random]

:up: Just pointing out options. :)

[thesameguy]

And absolutely appreciated - I have four days before I buy stuff, and I am all up for options. :) If I go into a lengthy explanation, it's just because I want to indicate I'm not just being dismissive. Everything about old houses isn't quite right, and a multi-dimensional cabinet is just one of those things. ;) I have been staring at this challenge for two years. It's gotta go. I thought I had it sorted on Monday, but realized yesterday there's a whole world of options I wasn't previously aware of. Google Image search is not just for ladies!

[mk]

Is jenky just unfinished?

Is that 2in diff. front or back?

How you're going to use it?
Three things that matter, a file, a coat hanger and a door.

Is that plaster asbest free?

[thesameguy]

It's more than just unfinished - it's covered in various things like expanding foam, some sort of adhesive, and paint drips. And it's not what you'd call cabinet-grade to start with, so the finish is pretty poor to boot.

The 2" is .75" in front and 1.5" in back, or vice versa - but both front and back.

I suspect it'll mostly be used for storing girl stuff - makeup, straighteners, etc. I don't use the bathroom at all, it's hers.

The plaster is probably not asbestos free. It's from 1950. I've not had it tested, but it seems unlikely.

[Random]

I would either wet it slightly as you work with it, or wear a real dust mask, FWIW.

[thesameguy]

Agreed - before my mom retired I had her provide a supply of the latter. She used to work for a weatherization company, so they stocked all the gear to keep crap out of your lungs. TBH, this concern is a motivator in using construction adhesive to attach the "lining" versus even trying to anchor it with fasteners, I just don't want to mess with it.

[mk]

I think I'd get a push in solution from IKEA etc.
And since it's in parts already another wall can be a liner if depth needs adjusting.

For better fittings I'd go to local kitchen seller.
Around here 500mm and 600mm depth are standards.
Shouldn't be far off from yours.
They have also same color thin plate for the back.

[thesameguy]

HA! There is *nothing* standard about this house. It was originally built in 1950, then added onto by hand between 1960 and 1963. There isn't a single dimension it shares with anything most anywhere. The only place where standards exist are in the kitchen, which was remodeled in the early '90s. Thank Dog for that, as it meant replacing the dishwasher wasn't difficult. However, even in the kitchen not everything is "right" - the place where the stove sits is still 40" wide, for an old '60s-style unit. They inexplicably did not extend the counters, so there is a significant gap between the wall, counter, and range. For a hot minute Kenmore and Frigidaire both had 40" electric ranges that would have filled the gap nicely, however they are no longer made and the only ones that still exist are gas, which we don't have. Someday, we're going to replace the deck and when I do I'll run gas pipe to the kitchen. Some day.

In any case, the closet is done. It turned out totally awesome:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=761A647D1BA02FAC!18895&authkey=!AAMRVWOL6ifnq90&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

We have not yet decided whether to stain or paint, so it's just bare - but it's all nice pine and looks top-notch.

If you are wondering why there is that odd fascia at the top, it's because the pipes for the old water heater are still there, just above the top of the shelf. The water comes in the back of the house through that wall and then feeds the rest of the house. When we did the tankless water heater conversion the only even remotely cost-effective way to install it was to tap into those pipes. Anything would have required tearing out the entire bathroom and the deck. Similarly, you can't see it, but there is still a stub of gas pipe near the floor. It's closed off as well, but it's still there.

That project took most of Saturday. The entire day today was spent making window sills. I absolutely cannot abide raw plaster/sheetrock under windows so I knocked that out. Tomorrow the floor people come and 1200 sq ft of hickory hardwood gets installed. Then I get to spend the rest of the wheel installing baseboards. After that, I'm calling it for the year. No more home projects. I think. The current push began back in December and I am beat.

Edit: Lies. After this is done I need to finally finish the garage so I can sell the F150. Another month of literal pain it is.

[Crazed_Insanity]

:up:

[21Kid]

Looks good. :up:

[Random]

Now, about that closet door...

:D

[thesameguy]

Honestly, I don't mind it. It is old and shitty, but a $10,000 1950 house is old and shitty. ;) I don't mind leaving nods to the past so long as they are functional. It doesn't match the 1990s cabinetry in the bathroom, but it does match the linen closet in the adjacent hall. It won't stay as is, but it might not change much.

I will get bored in a few hours and post some more pictures of the crazy crap we have been up to. Might make me feel better about how tired and sore I am. I went to work at 4am yesterday so I could have most the day to continue working on the house. Did that until midnight and am doing it again today and tomorrow. I need this push to be over.

[21Kid]

:eek: Where do you find a $10k house?!?

[Kchrpm]

I think he meant it was $10k in 1950.

[thesameguy]

Yeah, $10k in '50. And $12k in '60 IIRC. $300k in 2010. had the appraisal today, so we'll find out soon what it's worth in '16. A much smaller but honestly possibly nicer house down the street is listed at $360k. A neighbor's house just sold for $480k, but I know he put 160 large into it over the past three years. YIKES. Zillow has ours at $460k, but it's on drugs... ain't no way our home is worth that - the values are inflated by the gorgeous mansions a block or two away. I looked at some of those on MLS the other night - really nice places for $600k to $900k.

I am so beat - we compacted way too much work into the time before the appraisal. Things just went much faster this year than we expected. I am too tired to inline pics, but here's some of the highlights:

After playing with a bunch of designs, I made a lot of window sills to go with the new windows. Nothing finishes a window like a good sill. I tried to strike a balance between something chunky and substantial without going too industrial. I'm very happy with the result:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=761A647D1BA02FAC!18993&authkey=!AE_ML_RL9XGbh4M&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

While I made a shelf, the girl went bananas on the guest bathroom décor. It's really pretty:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=761A647D1BA02FAC!18994&authkey=!ACqhb5HVzP47PvE&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

With leftover shelf materials I made the dog a stool so she can see out the front window :)

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=761A647D1BA02FAC!18896&authkey=!APXUgFiGNs6XN5I&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

As I mentioned earlier I removed 1200 sq ft of shitty vinyl tiles and an additional 600 sq ft of carpet to install some fan-freaking-tastic hardwood flooring:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=761A647D1BA02FAC!19023&authkey=!AIN1TBUahKUHouQ&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

Hung a TV, installed a mile worth of baseboards, watched Minions as background noise:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=761A647D1BA02FAC!18992&authkey=!AJHVwOFJsPX9auM&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

Got new windows, so put up new drapes all over. So. Many. Drapes.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=761A647D1BA02FAC!19024&authkey=!AB8_b4NxUrZzkc8&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

Repainted the deck, installed exterior trim to finish the new windows off:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=761A647D1BA02FAC!18995&authkey=!ANFMZZ-GDgXb2KU&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

We're still knee-deep in this, but the pressure of the appraisal is off so we can slow down some. I need to finish the garage doors (still) and do some serious landscaping. Not sure how that's going down - I am tired and broke. You can be one and still be productive, but both at once is a little rough.

[novicius]

Aw looks fantastic!! :D :up:

[21Kid]

Really nice work all around! Love the baseboards & window sills.
Personally, I prefer those side by side closets in your bedroom to one large walk-in. Who needs that much closet space... really?

[thesameguy]

I like "flat" closets as well, but they definitely take up a fair amount of real estate. As I've paid more attention to houses over the years it's really become apparent how many things I thought I wanted that I really, really don't. A lot of trends in new houses sure seem like they're about packaging and what's good for the builder/developer rather than what's actually nice for the occupants, but because it's "new" people think it's better. I think I have a pretty solid idea of what my Perfect House would be, and it's probably something from the '60s. :)

This is the house I found on MLS the other night:

http://www.metrolistpro.com/homes/6/2/2848-LIENO-LANE-SACRAMENTO-CA-95821/16027289

It's bigger than I'd need or want, but it's nice. Too bad it's like $double. :lol:

[Kchrpm]

I like walk-in closets because I can just toss clothes on the floor in there and close the door.

[Kchrpm]

Speaking of floorplans we like, and me, I decided to see what was in my area in regards to small new homes. I was a little surprised to find something that fits my taste so well. The basement should be quite large and ripe for creative finishing.

http://www.ryanhomes.com/find-your-home/our-communities/ohio/morrow/woodlands-at-morrow/twelvenightysix

[thesameguy]

I really prefer small homes. My house in East Sac was 1200 sq ft and ever so slightly too large for my taste. What I wanted was another house that size on some land, but I couldn't find that... I ended up with too much house. Meh. Last year this was for sale and I seriously thought about moving:

https://goo.gl/maps/DXQwagpGjUS2

.75 acres, 1100 sq ft, 1 bed, 1 bath. :up:

Unfortunately I am not up for adding 20 minutes to each leg of my commute.

[Kchrpm]

I don't prefer small homes, but I can either afford large or nice, not both.

[21Kid]

I really prefer small homes. My house in East Sac was 1200 sq ft and ever so slightly too large for my taste. What I wanted was another house that size on some land, but I couldn't find that... I ended up with too much house. Meh. Last year this was for sale and I seriously thought about moving:

https://goo.gl/maps/DXQwagpGjUS2

.75 acres, 1100 sq ft, 1 bed, 1 bath. :up:

Unfortunately I am not up for adding 20 minutes to each leg of my commute.
Buy land... Build house.

[Kchrpm]

Conquer land... Build house from scratch with bare hands

#FTFY #ManifestDestiny

[21Kid]

FLAG!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEx5G-GOS1k

[mk]

I really prefer small homes.
For small places you need more innovations.

Around here water pipes needs protection tubes.
(after those pictures I think you're quite a bit more of a craftsman than expected)
Those tubes are not stiff and can be inside the wall cable routes.

[thesameguy]

#FTFY #ManifestDestiny

I am completely onboard with this. Completely. My grandfather built his house in the '70s and I have always regarded it as a major personal victory. I would love the opportunity to do that. We continually talk about leaving California at some point and we are discussing where we'd like to go. The idea of buying some land soon and then starting in on a modest house later is on the table for sure. I would love to find "some property" - a few acres maybe - in BFE with a house we could live in while I build a house we could die in. That's a dream for me, for real.

[thesameguy]

For small places you need more innovations.

Around here water pipes needs protection tubes.
(after those pictures I think you're quite a bit more of a craftsman than expected)
Those tubes are not stiff and can be inside the wall cable routes.

We have the benefit of a really old house, before a lot of the troublesome codes were in place. I find a lot of stuff that just wouldn't stand these days. Things are also different in areas with denser housing - things that are no problem in my neighborhood would be big issues downtown.

My grandfather was a carpenter his whole life and I benefit some from having seen (and played with) his work. I think my biggest handicap right now is simply not being aware of the tools and techniques that can simplify tasks for me. I see A Solution and I tend to be myopic about it simply because I don't have a lot of exposure to help me think differently. I struggled with what to do with that closet for three years until finally the obvious, simple solution hit me. And then it turned out that was a dumb solution, and there was a yet more-elegant solution! :) I wish I could explain the convoluted crap I'd come up with previously. :lol: I just need to pay more attention to these things in my life so I can incorporate techniques into my thought process. :)

We did a lot of projects with wood this year, and I'm looking forwards to more. My short-term goal is building a couch, but I'm stalled out primarily by the upholstery part. I don't think I have the aptitude for that at all.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hey, I learned how to sew for the exact purpose of doing upholstery for my own sofa and perhaps drapery! Haven't done any of that that yet, just a few pillow cases! :p

If I can do it, surely you can too! It's always fun to learn new skillz!!!

[thesameguy]

I've done some repair work, but I'm leery about doing something like that on the scale of a whole sofa. There is a lot of technique involved in proper sizing and assembly and I don't want something like a sofa coming apart due to poor workmanship. If I could watch someone do it a few times or even if I had someone to call for guidance I'd feel better about it, but I don't have those things. :) For smaller items like seat cushions, drapes, or pillowcases I can always lean on my mom as she is quite good with a sewing machine, but for bigger, heavier wear items I'm intimidated. I think I don't have an adequately developed sense of art. Where it's measurements and mechanical relationships I'm pretty good, but that's the extent of my ability. This past weekend I made some "stands" to keep some industrial furniture off the wood floors and I sanded the edges down into a nice shape and I was really proud of myself. That's how bad I am with aesthetics. :lol:

Also this weekend, my house celebrated all the time & effort I put into it by failing the garbage disposal. What I think is a gallon or two of used water ended up collecting under the sink. I didn't notice it until it overflowed the cabinet and left a puddle on the floor. When it rains it pours, literally. I spent the weekend carving out the ruined particle board under the sink and replacing it, the disposal, and the faucet for good measure. The upside is that while the cabinet was apart I took a piece of it to Ace Hardware and was able to very closely match the stain on the wood. After fixing everything, we restained the cabinets. I believe they were originally installed in the early '70s (the date on the sink is 3/20/70) and they sorely needed it. Huge improvement. The grout is still old and shitty, but the kitchen at least doesn't look like it's falling apart now. :lol: Also, now that I have a matching stain I can set about fixing the weird-ass stove issue. I'll post a picture later - I think it's a good example of what happens when a house doesn't change ownership very often. ;)

Edit: I will mention that the couch I want to make is leather, or some other similar material, not cloth. If it was cloth I might tackle it. But leather is a whole different animal!

[thesameguy]

Edit: I found a before picture:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=761A647D1BA02FAC!19121&authkey=!AOtFi2iNJHDrIqQ&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

My under-sink repair:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=761A647D1BA02FAC!19232&authkey=!ADYADBrh2t0XWXQ&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

This is definitely one of the grossest jobs I've had to do yet. Replacing 45 year old particle board that has been damp from time to time and punctuated by a garbage disposal failure is wretched. I did get some practice making plunge cuts with a jigsaw though, so that was nice. :) Although it's money I'd probably rather have, I'm also happy to have a brand-new garbage disposal. It's so quiet I leave it running all the time!

This cabinet floor was originally installed from the back and glued into place, so removal and reinstallation took some careful disassembly of the cabinet front and removal of a fair amount of plumbing. But I think it worked out - it's a good repair!

Here are our old ghetto cabinets - ain't nothing like Swervo's, I'll tell you what:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=761A647D1BA02FAC!19231&authkey=!AKmkX49FdB7xHrI&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

The one on the right had damage from extensive sun exposure - peeling poly and faded stain and has been re-stained. The one on the left lives in the shade and is in as good as shape as you can expect from its age. The stain is an *excellent* match. Really happy with the result - now instead of old and crappy they look new and crappy. I can live with that for a while!

I also finished my speaker rehab. The replacement Tymphany speakers fit very well. I did have to do some work with wood filler and black Rustoleum (so ghetto) since the factory woofers were flush mount and the replacements are surface. From a distance, you can't tell:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=761A647D1BA02FAC!19229&authkey=!AJKGFdTLPIB3HI0&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

Up close, you can:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=761A647D1BA02FAC!19228&authkey=!APaqB4Uib1Iwg-A&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

But, they'll be installed up on a wall at the back of the garage where probably nobody will ever get that close to them. It'll be our little secret.

I broke them in a bit last night and they sound quite good. Maybe not as good as the originals, but I wasn't listening to speakers critically in 1990. Plenty good for the garage. Now I just need to figure out a way to mount them to the walls, run speaker cable into the workshop where the receiver will be, and build some sort of shelf or enclosure for the receiver to avoid losing work surface. Very excited about this!

(Speaker rehab was not cost-effective - the replacement drivers were $25ea, or $100. For the same money I could have just bought some good enough garage speakers. But, whatever, it was a fun experiment. :) )

[tigeraid]

'tis a fine fence, but sure it 'tis no pool, English.

http://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13254219_10153448613937352_269796326825263966_n.jp g?oh=f198a37b4f497a20e3804c55df4c01db&oe=57E3B138


And I will never, ever do chain link again.

EDIT: then again, I did it with a cumalong and a pry bar instead of the "right" tool, and dug the post holes by hand, because fuck augers, amirite? :|

[JoshInKC]

Damn, I'm very disappointed that I can't find any pictures of myself running the truck-mounted augering/coring rig on survey last summer.

[thesameguy]

Man, that's a lot of hand-dug post holes.

[Kchrpm]

That's what she said?

[21Kid]

https://media0.giphy.com/media/3o7abw8H6H4vt8oFLq/200.gif

[thesameguy]

^^

[tigeraid]

Man, that's a lot of hand-dug post holes.

More! That's just one side of the fence.

Luckily, I appear to live in a swamp, so the ground is so soft you could almost dig it by hand.

[thesameguy]

My next project is formalizing audio in the garage. I should be working on the garage doors, but having audio out there will make working on the doors easier, so that there's my justification. ;)

My "garage" is weird. I'm sure there is some crazy story, but none of it makes sense. Here's what is looks like from the front:

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/lights.jpg

The garage section is not enclosed - that's what the doors I haven't built yet are for. The middle section is a very deep, very wide area that easily fits two cars, one of which is a 22' long Cadillac. The left section (as you face it) is of similar construction, but not wide enough to fit even one car. It's lawn tractor++. The right section is an enclosed workshop.

What I am doing it installing a Yamaha RX-V367 2-zone receiver in the workshop along with some 4.5" Pinnacle monitors, my rehab'ed Boston 555X speakers in the garage, and a pair of not-yet-selected outdoor speakers on the patio that's to the right of the workshop. There is conduit between the workshop and patio, so that's no big deal. There is no conduit between the workshop and garage and, in fact, it's really unclear how electricity gets from the breaker in the workshop to the garage.

Even weirder, two walls of the workshop are plywood siding, as you can see in that picture. The back wall is... actually... I have no idea what it is. :lol: But the fourth wall, the wall it shares with the garage, is lap siding.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=761A647D1BA02FAC!19603&authkey=!AHxaQSLDVTzwAdI&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

I need a solution for going through that siding, into a wall that I have no information about, and out some drywall at the other side.

I want to use these:

http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=104&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042503&p_id=3325&seq=1&format=2

on a surface mount gang box. Even though it's more connections, it'll make running & replacing speaker wire easier. I already have in-wall/plenum rated duplex speaker cable.

Anyone have any ideas about the best way to go through the mystery wall? Holesaw and pray? Maybe I need one of those super-long drill bits to locate first?

[Random]

Take out a square of the drywall and look, would be my first step.

PS. I have one of those long bits if you want to borrow instead of buying.

[thesameguy]

Awesome! I will pick up a cut-in gang for the drywall side and see what happens. You around this weekend?

[TheBenior]

I got my roof redone a few weeks ago. I was told when I bought the house that there were 3 roofs on there, last done about 13 years ago, and I lost some shingles during a day with extremely high winds back in February.

I didn't take any pictures, because it looks pretty much like the old one without wavy/missing shingles. We've had a ton of rain since then, and no leaks, but the smell of asphalt/tar off-gassing is noticeable on the second floor on sunny days.

[Random]

Awesome! I will pick up a cut-in gang for the drywall side and see what happens. You around this weekend?

We're headed to the Delta after lunch today and coming back Monday noonish. I can leave the bit out on our front porch?

[thesameguy]

Don't sweat it - if it doesn't get done this weekend that's fine. I am in no hurry... and, starting this project means moving the Cadillac, which brings up all sorts of other time-consumers. ;) Have fun!