Suzuka

[IMOA]

Figured I'd call the Suzuka thread. Getting on the plane soon and can't wait to get out to my favourite track. One of the few remaining proper tracks with gravel runoffs, real elevation changes (much more than you think fwiw), real teeth if you make a mistake and not one corner you can simply brake, turn and accelerate, your always trading off entry or exit (or both).

Hoping for a miracle but if Dan makes it to the podium I'll be happy. If the mercs take each other out at turn 1 I'll be happier.

[samoht]

I'm assuming that Merc's car advantage plus Lewis generally being quicker than Nico, with Suzuka being fairly fast and demanding, will result in Lewis having the overall advantage.

Always possible that Red Bull aero will put them closer to Merc on all the fast corners, still I'd be surprised if they were faster. I wouldn't be at all sad if Dan did pull off another win.

Wonder whether Williams will be in contention here? Bottas for a podium?

Passing is normally tough at Suzuka, although not so much with DRS. Looking forward to seeing this, I fancy if Lewis takes the win here, he's looking good for the championship... (famous last words, I know).

[FaultyMario]

IIRC they've been shortening DRS zones... actually been placing the activation point further ahead the detection point than in previous years, So highway passes are still 'normal' as long as the trailing driver still goes for a better exit out of the turn. I hope that they can replicate the DRS effect like in Monza, where passing drivers needed to out brake the leading driver into rettifilo in order for the DRS advantage to work. Ballsy Ricciardo passes FTW.

Also, Sutil reckons 130R is no longer flatout (for non-RedBulls, I must say).

[Reynard]

There should be a Phanfone option because Mother Nature will win this years Japanese GP. :D

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/By-6RZPIYAAqlQt.jpg:large

#F1 McLaren running a little aero rake behind the front wheels on both sides to start #Suzuka FP1.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzA0nuhCMAAcfR9.jpg:large

"@ferran_figufer: " while the ferrari oil tank MGUK layout is understood. This is the first sight of the turbo itself

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzAA9SeCcAE368-.jpg:large

Lewis Hamilton of @MercedesAMGF1 has to catch an enormous wobble exiting Degner #JapaneseGP #F1

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzAswNFCQAAlN9Q.jpg:large

17 Year Old Max Verstappen’s First F1 Session Ends In Smoke http://wtf1.co.uk/?p=16743 #F1

[FaultyMario]

Is Alonso's departure official this weekend?

Didn't Mattiacci make it unofficial at the Paris autoshow?

[Freude am Fahren]

Will Buxton (haven't looked for other opinions yet) seems to think that mostly likely if the race is run on Sunday afternoon, there will be no Russian GP, as they won't be able to get everything there with airports closed on Monday and Tuesday. The downside of back-to-back GP's.

[Reynard]

Is Alonso's departure official this weekend?

Next weekend it will be. ;)

[samoht]

Will Buxton (haven't looked for other opinions yet) seems to think that mostly likely if the race is run on Sunday afternoon, there will be no Russian GP, as they won't be able to get everything there with airports closed on Monday and Tuesday. The downside of back-to-back GP's.

The FIA official weather forecaster said something to the effect that it would likely be 'very challenging' to get equipment to Sochi in time, since it will probably be difficult or impossible to pack up and ship out as normal on Monday.

No idea what will happen, I guess they may try to pack up straight after the race on Sunday afternoon, also typhoons often don't arrive as predicted. I still think Sochi is more likely than not.

[overpowered]

Is Alonso's departure official this weekend?

Next weekend it will be. ;)

Will McLaren-Honda actually have a decent car?

[Freude am Fahren]

I think Sochi will still happen. Wouldn't it be more likely that they delay practice, even skip qualifying, than cancel, if they're only a day or two delayed.

[FaultyMario]

Will McLaren-Honda actually have a decent car?

It seems Honda is behind schedule. Most problematic part of the equation has been -for all manufacturers- consumption. I think the Renault is pretty decent in that respect, with the Ferrari the thirstiest. As far as power output, who knows really how far ahead Mercedes really are, most technical reporters agree that the best chassis is the RB with etiher Williams, Ferrari and Mercedes behind. No one thinks the 2014 Mclaren is in the same league as those four. Hell, they're trailing behind a team that's run out of development budget for this year's car.

Seems the only thing Alonso's waiting for is Lewis not committing beyond 2015 with Mercedes, He really wants to go there.
But Honda really, really want him; they've been chasing him since his Renault years. Commercially, Honda and Santander think Alonso/Button is the ticket.

[Yobbo NZ]

http://m.speedcafe.com/2014/10/04/vettel-leave-red-bull-end-2014/

Interesting times ahead,being beaten by his less experienced teammate might have something to do with it?

[FaultyMario]

Was gonna say.

Pretty Much confirmed. Vettel, out. Kvyat in? Poor JEV!

[Alan P]

Confirmed by Red Bull. Interesting. I'd guess he's waiting for Alonso. Surely he wouldn't leave RB without having somewhere to go? He must know something we don't which I suspect is Alonso to McLaren and then Seb to Ferrari. I also suspect JB will stay at McL so Kevin will be farmed out to another team.

[FaultyMario]

Do remember about the technical personnel leaving RBR: Peter Produomo (McLaren), Newey (America's Cup) and Kenny Handkammer (Suddenly).

[FaultyMario]

Kevin will be farmed out to another team.

3 car teams if Bernie gets his way.

Just Imagine:

Merc- HAM/ROS-Thatkidtheyhavetesting
RBR - RIC - KVT - ??
Williams - BOT - MAS - JUN
Ferrari - VET - RAI - BIA
FI - HUL - PER - GUT
McL - ALO - BUT - MAG
TR - MAX - SAI - GAS
??? - ???

[FaultyMario]

Ok, I'm calling it. This one neither goes to Dan nor to Lewis. I don't know if Rosberg will puss out of this one. I put my chips on Seb.

[FaultyMario]

So If you drive a mercedes you can sew up a shit lap and still get in Q3?

:angry:

[XHawkeye]

from the twitter

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzEjYhgCMAENuFU.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzEjYhiCYAEbsMy.jpg

Hamilton crashes in FP3. Copying Ricciardo's crash yesterday.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzEwn3sIgAAtfVg.jpg:large

doesn't look too bad

[overpowered]

That'l buff right out.

[overpowered]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[MR2 Fan]

:(

[FaultyMario]

Holy shit. Bianchi's crash seems to be career ending.


However he added more thought should have been given to starting the race early after week-long warnings about heavy rain.

“I think they spoke about it,” he said. “We weren’t asked about out opinion so there’s nothing really I can say.”

Fuck, Tiff Needell's twitter comment (https://twitter.com/tiff_tv/status/518368205006708736) becomes eerie.

[FaultyMario]

In case you're wondering what happened, On lap 42 Sutil hit standing water and aquaplaned backwards and hit the barrier. SC was deployed and recovery equipment was on scene, on Lap 43, Sutil describes Bianchi's accident as "the same thing happened to him", that is, hit a patch of water, slid backwards into the runoff but hit a crane instead.

Official FIA Statement:


On lap 42, Adrian Sutil lost control of his car, spun and hit the tyre barrier on the outside of turn seven. The marshals displayed double waved yellow flags before the corner to warn drivers of the incident. A recovery vehicle was despatched in order to lift the car and take it to a place of safety behind the guardrail. While this was being done the driver of car 17, Jules Bianchi, lost control of his car, travelled across the run-off area and hit the back of the tractor.

Once the marshals reported that the driver was injured, medical teams were despatched and the Safety Car was deployed. These were followed by an extrication team and an ambulance.

The driver was removed from the car, taken to the circuit medical centre and then by ambulance to Mie General Hospital.

The CT scan shows that he has suffered a severe head injury and he is currently undergoing surgery. Following this he will be moved to intensive care where he will be monitored.

Mie General Hospital will issue an update as soon as further information becomes available.

Neurosurgery and ICU doesn't not sound like good news.

[Freude am Fahren]

He is out of surgery and breathing on his own, which sounds like a positive sign, but still very serious. Not a lot more information.

There is a picture of the immediate aftermath with Jules still in the car, the doctor looking at him with his visor up. While not gruesome, I'll let you guys find it until we know more.

Basically the back half of the car is kinda wedged under the crane, and the roll hoop completely gone. Bianchi's helmet looks pretty undamaged, and the doctor has the visor up. I'm thinking if he had been a bit taller, or the crane a bit lower, he wouldn't have had a chance.

Actually, kinda looks like he went into the tractor mostly backwards, and after getting under it to just about his head, the car kind of pivoted around?

[FaultyMario]

http://estaticos01.marca.com/imagenes/2014/10/05/motor/formula1/gp-japon/1412498773_extras_noticia_foton_7_2.jpg
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/141005082852-bianchio-sutil-horizontal-gallery.jpg

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzMIxysIQAAIcby.jpg:large

For all those who keep insisting racing's now too safe & boring. Picture says it all #AllezJules @MotorsportSafeT
https://twitter.com/AxisOfOversteer/status/518768034337792000

[Drachen596]

so wait, was the SC out before Bianchis incident or not until after it?

[Freude am Fahren]

Seems a little unclear to me. I've seen people say it came out as soon as Sutil crashed, but clearly it wasn't as we saw Sutil's car after the crash, and then being moved before the SC coming out. The safety car and Medical car then came out of the pits at the same exact time, it seemed to me in response to Bianchi's crash.

I don't think the conditions called for the SC, so it wasn't in response to the rain as some have said, IMO.

[Drachen596]

SC has to be used anytime the Medical car is required i think. maybe?

i didn't manage to catch the replay or live airing. sounds like it was a terrible day to be racing in the first place.

[overpowered]

I think that they did the first 8-9 laps or so under the safety car, including a red flag period in the middle of that. It was really annoying. Starting under the safety car is one thing. Doing a lot of laps under it is another. Alonso went out during this period.

Some decent racing happened once they got going. Hamilton's pursuit and eventual pass of Rosberg was quite nice. Button went to intermediates a few laps before anyone else and made up a bunch of time as a result. Unfortunately, he later had problems of his own and fell back a bit. Not sure what happened to the Williams but they fell back too. I think that the rain disadvantaged them and actually helped the Red Bulls. Better down force always helps in the rain.

But then near the end it started raining harder and some very bad things happened. It's almost a fluke that he hit the tractor instead of a tire wall. Even hitting Sutil's car probably wouldn't have been as bad as hitting the tractor, as long as he didn't hit Sutil himself.

[FaultyMario]

Out of surgery? (speculation)
October 5, 2014 / 15 Comments

It has been reported, but NOT by the hospital itself, that Jules is out of surgery and “breathing on his own”.

When a patient is brought emergently to the neurosurgical theatre for evacuation of a hematoma, the decision on how to manage the end of the surgery is a collaborative one, between the neurosurgeon, the anaesthetist, and perhaps the intensivist who will subsequently be charged with the patient’s care.

The decision basically involves: do we wake the patient up, or do we keep him or her asleep, intubated, ventilated mechanically, and do the wake-up later.

Factors that would tend to lead us to awaken after surgery would be:

relatively decent neuro status pre-op (meaning a GCS more like 8-10 or so)
a pre-op CT scan that doesn’t suggest widespread damage, intense swelling, or multiple hematomas (that kind of patient usually won’t make the preceding criteria, anyway)
a brain that doesn’t appear to swell when opened during surgery, and that doesn’t seem to have significant damage other than the hematoma
stable vitals and ICP during awakening
high quality surveillance and immediate availability of neurosurgical and anaesthetic resources

If indeed Jules is out of the OR, and if indeed he has been extubated and is breathing spontaneously by himself, then what is significant (in the absence of other specific medical information) is that this indicates how confident his surgeons and intensivists are that his neurological status is sufficiently stable to allow him that “luxury”. That would be really superb news.

#ForzaJules

If I'm not mistaken, when starting the race under heavy rain they do those parade laps to gauge the driveability of the circuit.
Williams have much less aero efficiency than Red Bull, Bottas himself thought so. They didn't so much as went backwards, they started further than they should because the RBs had wet race setups.
Some people reckon Button could have won it had it not been redflagged.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, the parade laps were fine, they just went 2-3 long. Most said they were ready to race before then. I'm guessing Alonso got some water in the electrics on pit lane.

[samoht]

After Sutils crash, they started recovering the car under waved yellows. I was surprised at the time - streaming wet track, recovering a car on the outside of a high speed corner where the recovery is not far from the track - I really thought they would safety car it, but they didn't.

Only after Bianchi went off at the same place into the crane did the safety car come out.

I've heard some people say the race should have been stopped sooner as the rain got heavier towards the end. However at that time, the two Mercedes were still lapping as quickly as ever on worn intermediate tyres, so that would have been a strange call.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So moral of the story should be that these 'vehicles' should be fitted to be more crash compatible with f1cars... Or otherwise shouldn't be allowed inside the barriers.

What a sad ending to an otherwise potentially very exciting race.

[IMOA]

I thought I would post some comments in here as there is some absolute rubbish floating about the inter webs about the race.

First of all thoughts with Jules and his family and hoping he can continue his recovery

First of all the rain. There has been a lot of utter rubbish talked about this but the reality is that the typhoon was never an issue for the race, it was a long way from the track and as forecast didn't hit japan until Monday. The rain on Sunday was just rain and unless people are proposing moving races every time a weather forecast is for rain on race day any talk of the impact of the typhoon is irrelevant.

In terms of rain that day there were showed in the morning and then some steady rain between 12-2pm. It did start raining a bit about 5 minutes before the start and stopped pretty much exactly when they pulled they red flagged the race the first time after the second lap. From then on there were a couple of very brief light showers before it rained again for about 15 minutes towards the end. This was entirely as forecast and the race was run in basically the driest couple of hours of the day, moving the race earlier would have meant a much wetter race. At no point did the rain approach something that could be described as torrential, it was just a bit of a shit overcast day that had some rain showers.

There was never any wind, the reason Bianci was transported to the hospital in an ambulance rather than a helicopter is because that's what the medical team wanted, I'm not about to second guess them. In the period of time around the end of the race there were a number of helicopters, including the medical chopper, taking off, flying about and landing. Today was windy, Sunday was dead calm.

It was dark, can't say if it was too dark to race but it was quite dark. I've always felt that the race is too late in the day, it's and hour later than most races (3:00pm vs 2:00pm) and the sun sets early in Japan in summer as there's no daylight saving, about 5:20pm at this time of year. The race should be scheduled at 2:00pm to better cope with days like this and the Europeans need to learn to wake up an hour earlier if they want to watch it live. It's a world championship, the races won't always be in your prime time, get used to it.

This race reinforces my dislike of the current safety car regulations. The whole move the lapped cars out of the way thing simply results in a massively extended safety car period and turns the safety car into part of the entertainment rather than what it is meant to be. It also means that whenever an incident occurs close to the end there is a reluctance to call the safety car out as that means effectively ending the race.

This will sound very harsh but there was a single car accident which occurred under double waved yellows, while there are things that I think do need to be changed which do contribute to the problem ultimately it's the driver who is responsible. I'm not trying to shit on Bianci with that but the whole field needs to take a long look at how they're driving through those situations.

[Freude am Fahren]

I agree with you on most of that.

Just because it wasn't typhoon conditions, that weather was a result of the typhoon. Though I may just be arguing semantics here.

However, moving the race up was less about the conditions at 3pm, and more about, as you say, the next two days when the storm really hit the island, and pack-up/transpo for a back-to-back race. Logistic and safety concerns.

Also, as you say, because of the already late race, and problems with light. The fact that sunset is only minutes after the normal 2 hours race time limit (a factor in a slowed, wet race) is already ridiculous.

While we haven't seen Bianchi's wreck on video, I tend to think he was going to fast for the conditions (sudden increase in rain, double yellows). The damage on his car would indicate he hit that tractor at a very high rate of speed. Though that's kinda the problem with the situation there with the yellows.

I know a lot of us complain over a SC for a car a ways off track that can be retrieved in a minute or two. But two things here. In wet conditions, they should ALWAYS put out the SC if there is equipment outside the walls. Just a couple marshals pushing a car behind the wall? That one could be argued both ways, as they always have a spotter and can react, unlike with a tractor. So in that case, it may be a judgement call, based on the distance from the racing surface, speed of that section of track, and angle to the direction of travel of a possible second wrecking car.

But certainly, they should pretty much always put out the SC before retrieving a car in bad conditions. If one car goes off by itself in the rain, there is a strong possibility another will follow.

Also, I'd love to see more tracks with Monaco style cranes that reach over the fence rather than the big slow ones that need to drive out.

[FaultyMario]

Jules' Marussia went straight on against the back of the tractor. Not sideways, not backwards. There was no previous hit to make it spin or anything to make it lose momentum.

Fucking Awful.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah just saw it. Just to give an idea of the severity, that tractor went about two feet in the air and 6-8 feet laterally. Also, his car was going straight for that gap in the fence. Had it not hit the tractor, it very well may have hit marshals, photographers, Sutil, maybe even spectators (not sure is there are any there). And the tractor was reversing. Had Bianchi gotten there a second or two earlier, that may have been the case.

[racerfink]

Don't know why it's named that. Presumably to keep Bernie's minions from finding it quicker.http://giant.gfycat.com/HiddenSleepyIceblueredtopzebra.gif

[FaultyMario]

I hope Jules makes it, I'm not counting on it, though. Terrible accident.

In Sutil's explanation he says he wasn't able to spot the puddles anymore, due to low light conditions; it must have been the same for Bianchi. That late showerchanged the track enough that they need way more light than was available.

[Rare White Ape]

There's always an overlap in the barriers when they install a gap like that. The car would never have made it into any populated area.

[overpowered]

I re-watched the footage from NBCSN. Sutil actually went off during a commercial break, but because they now split screen the commercials with race footage, we got to see it but not hear about it until the commercials finished. I can't tell from the footage if the safety car didn't come out until after Bianchi went off but it seems plausible. The safety car didn't come out for a couple of laps or so. At one point you can see the medical car there but the camera angle prevents you from being able to see Bianchi or his car. The announcers saw a stretcher and wondered if Sutil was hurt. The announcers had no idea about Binachi until around the time the race got red flagged.

[IMOA]

The safety car and medical car were deployed in response to bianchis accident, the medical car overtook the safety car on the entrance to turn 1 so it got to the accident before the safety car.

And as rwa mentioned, there isn't really a gap at that point at the track, there's overlapping barriers and another fence as from where they are they're as close to the exit of 130R as they are to Dunlop.

[Rare White Ape]

Here's amateur footage of the whole scene. Pay close attention to the flags being displayed at that flag point.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=935_1412607015

But before you go saying "The idiots shouldn't be showing a green flag," etc just stop and think for a second about how much I will slap you in the head with my elbow.

[overpowered]

Damn. I can't imagine how he could have hit it worse.

Even hitting the tractor's wheel square probably would have been better than that. The way he hit it, it looks like his head would have taken most of the force of impact.

[FaultyMario]

Fuck. Diffuse Axonal Injury patients almost never go back to normal lives.

[Crazed_Insanity]

:(

[Rikadyn]

Interesting thing is, is that the type of injury is due to massive de-acceleration more than impact, and from the video it looks like he slipped under clean (more than ya know...) and it hitting the roll hoop caused the injury...

[IMOA]

Here's my thoughts on the accident and related safety issues I posted in another forum.

In terms of this accident ultimately the responsibility has to be with the driver who went off under double waved yellows. I'm not trying to dump on a bloke who is currently unconscious in hospital but I tell you what, if it had been 20 seconds later and instead of hitting the JCB he killed a marshal there would be a hell of a lot more people questioning how he went off under double waved yellows.

That said, it has bought to a head some rather important safety concerns. I do think a safety car should be called to recover a vehicle in the wet when the car is on the outside of a turn (or any dangerous place really keeping in mind that if one car has gone off there it's very very common in the wet for another to end up there). Charlie Whiting got that call wrong, he should not have put the marshals in that position.

However to be fair there were a lot of pressures on him not to call for a safety car which should have never been there in the first place. The reality is that if he had've called for a safety car to recover sutil's car the race was over and there would have been a howl of protest. It was a classic damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

The race in Japan, and other races in this end of the world like Malaysia and Melbourne are scheduled too damned late in the day because Europeans won't wake up a bit early to watch a race. This means that whenever there's a hint of weather, the rain on Sunday was never heavy and for 90% of the race there was none, the race gets jammed up against sunset and fading light meaning that if they take the sensible approach the fans are robbed of a finish. End the bullshit scheduling, start the races earlier.

Next is the safety car. Ffs, as has been mentioned the japanese marshals took less than 2 minutes to recover the car (they're very good marshals fwiw) but if the safety car came out it would spend 5-10 minutes just getting rid of the lapped cars. All because clueless numpties seem to think a safety car is for giving their favourite driver a chance to catch up to the guy in front and have a shot at passing. It's not, it's there to protect the marshals, that lapped car between your favourite driver and the bloke in front was always there so there's no reason why it should disappear just because a safety car came out.

Finally I guess driver behaviour. They run delta times for sectors when the safety car is called so I think it's time they did the same for double waved yellows. The procedure is in place, the drivers are used to it, it shouldn't be that hard to implement. At a minimum the current 2 tenths for yellow and 5 tenths for double waved yellow should be multiplied by 4 or 5 and drivers properly punished for breaking it. 10 grid spot penalty for ricciardo having a bad pit stop when nothing came off the car in Malaysia while people fundamentally ignoring double waved yellows are not punished is 10 shades of fucked up.

Once the hysteria dies down hopefully there will be some common sense because while the FIA do cop a lot of shit they have actually made the series astonishingly safe for what it actually is but they do need to sort some of this shit out.

[FaultyMario]

Is it in Motorsports magazine where they described how ALL drivers in friday's briefing will ask about slowing down in yellow flag zones? It says anyone driver will be "Give us a number Charlie". I think the system's failure to take into account the competitive nature of these guys is what got us into this mess. They should have implemented a different system to deal with trouble zones years ago, specially in light of all cars having a standard ECU. For example Mode "X" is mandatory for DWY zones, failure to engage results in 20 seconds added to final time. By the same token, the Safety Car is largely irrelevant if such a driving mode could be remotely monitored.

[Rikadyn]

http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/f1-sutil-gives-firsthand-account-of-bianchi-s-fateful-crash-100814?cmpid=tsmfb%3Afscom%3Aspeed

[harper]

First, of course, come on Jules. Pull out of this. If anybody has a chance to survive that head injury then it has to be a young guy who's in shape enough to be an F1 driver. It'd be a miracle if his career ever continued, but honestly if he can recover and live a full, healthy life -- he's just 25!! -- it would be awesome. Wake up and fight this off, Jules. You can do it.

I haven't watched the accident and I don't really want to. Hearing about it is bad enough. I think I'm with the Midweek Motorsports crew - this was an accident. A bad accident. Can some things be improved? Yes. Ant Davidson said maybe they shouldn't use the big tractors and such during rainy weather; maybe the drivers need to behave better, maybe they need speed zones ala Nurburgring 24 or Le Mans this year, who knows. Smarter people can figure that out. But sometimes there are just bad things that happen that are out of control. This is probably one of them.


The race in Japan, and other races in this end of the world like Malaysia and Melbourne are scheduled too damned late in the day because Europeans won't wake up a bit early to watch a race. This means that whenever there's a hint of weather, the rain on Sunday was never heavy and for 90% of the race there was none, the race gets jammed up against sunset and fading light meaning that if they take the sensible approach the fans are robbed of a finish. End the bullshit scheduling, start the races earlier.

...but this is something that needs to change. I know you said it was the lightest rain of all day, IMOA, but you also know just how fast it gets dark here. Japan is probably an hour outside the 'right' time zone (it gets light early and is getting dark about 5:20 or so) and doesn't do daylight savings time, and if you go back and watch footage of the Japanese GP the last few years, light is seriously fading when they're on the podium. And for what? Because the Europeans can't wake up early for a race or two? All of the European rounds were at 4:30 am on the West coast, and that means 7:30 where more Americans live. You can't have an early race or two? IMOA did say it best, it's a world championship, not every race is going to be set towards GMT. Bringing this past Japanese GP up an hour or two may have seen it be rainier, but it would have been much lighter much longer for that four-hour window they have now.

[Crazed_Insanity]

First, of course, come on Jules. Pull out of this. If anybody has a chance to survive that head injury then it has to be a young guy who's in shape enough to be an F1 driver. It'd be a miracle if his career ever continued, but honestly if he can recover and live a full, healthy life -- he's just 25!! -- it would be awesome. Wake up and fight this off, Jules. You can do it.

I echo this sentiment too! I hope to see him recover... miracle or not.

And if FIA doesn't want to change schedule, at least they have the power/technology to light up the tracks now. Light them up for safety's sake!

Also the steering wheel LED lights also need to be adjustable as Sutil pointed out... surely under darkened and rainy conditions glares from the steering wheel must've been a huge distraction.

Lastly, if you can't extract a car from outside of the barrier, might as well just leave it there. It'd probably be a lot safer to crash into another F-1 car vs crashing into a tractor or whatever other kind of vehicles.

[Dicknose]

Lighting and wet conditions are tough.
In low light (not dark) reflected light can be worse than no extra light.
Motogp cancelled a night race when it was wet not because of the water, but the reflections.

I'm with the other, 1 hour earlier, big deal, suck it up.

I think the whole safety car use is flawed. Takes too many laps, should be able to be out for even 1 lap.
Unlapping cars is crazy, if you want them out of the way, then they move over and slip back, not pass and catch up.
Make it quicker and keep the track as free as possible.
I'd even say no pit stops, or if you pit you wait for the safety car.
At times marshals are on the track removing debris. They don't need random cars coming past. Let the safety car train go,past, ok you now have 2 mins before anything comes past again.

[Reynard]

Here's my thoughts on the accident and related safety issues I posted in another forum.

In terms of this accident ultimately the responsibility has to be with the driver who went off under double waved yellows.

Yep and like you, this was my post on another forum specifically in response to someone posting "are we afraid to say Bianchi made a mistake?"

............

Nope. But these days it's always best to lay blame everywhere else first of course. But as a driver, you are the first and foremost person responsible for your safety and like most aircraft accidents, it's usually pilot error that causes it. Adrian said it was too dark to see the standing water on the track that put him (and presumably Jules) hydroplaning off the Dunlop curve. If you can't see the track surface clearly anymore you best slow down a bit methinks, hard to do with the pressures put on a driver (by the team, sponsers, themself) but again, only the driver has the power to choose the level of risk they're willing to take. Ask Niki Lauda about it. ;)

I'm not saying that he didn't suffer a mechanical failure of some sort, or that the stewards or his team or anyone else is free of fault in all this but please, this was an accident and a bad one, simple as that. If anything it really says a lot for how safe the cars are now (and how well trained the medical crews are) versus not too long ago. If they had showed the video of Jules' crash as it happened, I would have told you right then that he was a dead man, just as I said when I saw Greg Moore crash in Fontana live. The fact that he's still alive is amazing in itself but of course his future is questionable.

The other thing to think about too is that while virtually everyone from the drivers to the teams to the fans just love everything about Suzuka. Most of those endearing things also make it a very dangerous track to race on by today's standards. To enjoy all the thrills it has to offer compared to most Tilke fare, you have to be willing to accept the increased risk... which personally I have no problem with... which of course is easy for me to say as firmly I ride my couch for every F1 event. :o

.............

And I wanted to add here now too, in regards to the blame something else first, this was highlighted quite well during the second practice session when Daniel went off coming out of the chicane. The commentators are all talking about a mechanical failure of some sort while I'm yelling at the tv that he just lost it giving it too much throttle, caught it but was out of track and had to go straight off as a result. And good on Daniel for coming clean afterwards too! More respect for him. :up: I mean of course these are some of the greatest drivers in the world but they're far from perfect and make mistakes all the time. Some are sadly more costly then others though.

[Rikadyn]

To be fair, the fia did try to move the race up last weekend twice but the promoter said no.

Didn't we have a race in sepang that ran into this exact problem a couple yrs ago?

[samoht]

Fundamentally, under yellow or double-yellow flags, the drivers are still racing each other.

By that I mean, if I'm ahead of you, I slow to 50mph and you only slow to 70mph through a double-yellow section, you will close the gap to me, and gain an advantage. That is, drivers will be rewarded for taking more risks.

Under green-flag conditions this is fine; take too many risks and you will leave the track, cross the run-off, plough through the gravel trap and hit the barrier. This is ok because the run-off, gravel trap, barrier and car are all designed and tested for safety in this scenario, so although there is risk, it's managed.

F1 cars are not tested for pedestrian impact safety, nor for collisions with tractors. So when marshals and tractors are in the safety zone, continuing to reward risk-taking can only lead to cars slowing less and less, and eventual disaster. Saying 'drivers should slow down more under double yellows' is useless, as long as competitive and selective pressure will reward those who slow down less.

Therefore, the only answer is that every time marshals or tractors are out on track or in the safety zones, the race should be neutralised at least for that section of track, to prevent anyone gaining advantage by taking risks. This can be done with a safety car, or by limiting drivers to a set speed for that sector, which would probably be preferable. But F1 needs to end the situation where drivers are enticed to take risks in situations where the risks they are taking are uncontrolled, and affect not only the driver but marshals also.

[Godson]

Didn't a collision involving a safety car happen in f3 or something a few years ago?

What changes were introduced after that?

[Freude am Fahren]

Just an idea, but they could implement speed zones, like Le Mans. But obviously with the speed, and shorter tracks/sectors, it's a bit more complicated. So with today's technology, and the soon to be mandated steering wheel displays, they could basically at each marshal stand have a way to send a clear message and even project a big red or yellow line onto the track surface, and basically the driver must slow to X speed (let's say pit speed, so they can use the limiter and make it simple for example's sake). Only to be used in these extreme circumstances when a safety car would be a good idea, but for time's sake isn't.

I know some may say an automatic limiter of some sort, but I don't think the idea of the car suddenly being slowed is very safe, especially considering how much these F1 cars slow even before the brakes are applied.

But another smart idea I think is for all circuits to have more cranes rather than tractors. You still have Marshall in harms way, but they can hopefully stay out of trouble in cases like this via spotters and only working on the car when no cars are in the vicinity.

[Godson]

They just need to accept the idea of more strict caution rules. We have talked about this for years but the idiots up top refuse to acknowledge the dangers. They seem to only care when someone is seriously injured or killed

[Rare White Ape]

This is nothing new. This incident involving Mario Andretti could have been fatal, and all his fault.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KwEqjuvAZzE

I seem to remember another one in that era when Mario ran into a truck and his son Michael came in straight after and pushed the nose in even closer to the bumper. Dodgy. As. Fuck.

[Rikadyn]

I find it funny that elsewhere, discussions about this are saying that if the tractor was out it should be a safety car, are coming from the same people who bitched every time a SC was called in TUSC to remove a car from the gravel.

[racerfink]

I find it funny that elsewhere, discussions about this are saying that if the tractor was out it should be a safety car, are coming from the same people who bitched every time a SC was called in TUSC to remove a car from the gravel.

This.