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Thread: Pandemic Thread (CoronaVirus etc.)

  1. #2601
    Junior Potato
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    Tom throwing some valuable nuance in the chat like whaaaaat

  2. #2602
    Spiny beast TheBenior's Avatar
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    I have a buddy who I think lied about his health to get the vaccination, but his wife is in remission from breast cancer and still on drugs that can suppress her immune system. She already got both of her shots, but I'm not exactly going to frown upon him or anyone else living with a high risk person getting vaccinated.

  3. #2603
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    I'm reading a book on software architecture for work. It's pretty boring. However, there's one bit of wisdom in it that I think applies here, and while it seems obvious in hindsight, it was revelatory for me.

    You are not looking to create the perfect system, the best system, or even the right system. That system does not exist. You are looking to create the least worst system. Everything has tradeoffs, and you're looking for the one that sucks the least.

    People are going to refuse to take the vaccine. You can't just automatically sign people up because the vaccines have a shelf life and unfortunately we have a sizable part of the population that will not take them. That size will change as people see their friends getting it and not turning into sentient 5G towers, but you can't predict that.

    The system right now works pretty well all things considered. It is likely the least worst.
    Of course Iím not suggesting forcing people to get shots, but just send people notifications that itís your turn now! If you choose to wait, thatís fine, your dose will go to the next in line based on age and location...

    Kinda like instead of waiting in line for a Disneyland ride, people are issued fastpasses, so people know when itís their time... and CDC gets to decide how these passes are issued.

    Anyway, Trump for sure wins the worst system. Iíd agree we now better than that.

  4. #2604
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    There's a bunch of issues about "pushing" the invite. How long do you get to make that decision before your dose goes to the next in line? What if you might have covid and should wait until you at least know before you get the shot? What if you don't want it but change your mind a week later? How do you get re-shuffled back into that system - can you just re-insert yourself whenever you want potentially throwing everyone-after-you's timeline off or do you have to wait until they cycle through everyone eligible and start again? If you cycle like that, do you cycle through multiple times to make sure you got all the stragglers before opening up eligibility or do you just move onto the next category, and eventually the 75 year old who at first was anti-vax but now wants it has to wait until the entire rest of the population has gotten it before he can get another shot?

    The system as it is now is kinda like Disneyland fastpasses. You have to ask for one, then they tell you when your turn is. The biggest issue that I see right now is that at least all the big vaccination sites, like CSU campuses and Dodgers' stadium, is that they all take appointment registrations through the same state-run website that asks about eligibility before it allows you to even see a list of potential sites. It makes it impossible for one site to say "we have more than enough for the eligible, don't bother with the check for us," hence why the person running the CSU LA operation basically said "go ahead and fib about what you do or whatever, just get an appointment." That way they don't get slammed because you still have to get an appointment which is limited to a number of people per time slot, but they also open it up to more people.

    I had originally thought the push system makes sense, but then I came up with all those things that would make it significantly more complicated than it first seems like. I've heard of systems like that on a much smaller scale being very effective - there was that story about a 1,000 unit apartment building in Philadelphia mostly occupied by older people and they literally went door to door offering shots. That doesn't scale all that well, and anybody who passed on that shot or wasn't home or whatever still had the opportunity to request an appointment elsewhere, but it definitely worked in that situation. I think we've done similar things here, I'm assuming most people in assisted living facilities/nursing homes had vaccinations coordinated by the staff and got them on-site.

    Also, after reading about how countries like Turkmenistan have handled covid, I'm pretty sure that even Trump's isn't the worst.
    Last edited by Tom Servo; April 10th, 2021 at 07:22 AM.

  5. #2605
    反重力 Rikadyn's Avatar
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    Would be easier to just lock unvaxxed people out of part of society where they are a threat, say any confined space for more than a few minutes. Add in no religious exemptions and less people can skirt it.

  6. #2606
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    Swervo, do we really need to compare ourselves to anythingstan?

    Fast pass, meaning youíll get a Ďwindowí of opportunity to get your shot... Anyway, Iím just thinking of ways that might improve the system, but, yes, thereís no guarantee that my suggestion will scale up without issues either... but at least itíll only be scaling up based on supply of vaccines. If we end up with so much supply, then we could just flood the pharmacies with them and let people to just walk in. Whereas current system, as we open it up for all, the entire state will be trying to book appointments for limited vaccines. Pretty sure that wonít be a pleasant experience everyone.

    I just hope people in our governments are thinking about ways to improve too and hopefully learn lessons for future. What happened at CSULA shouldnít have happened. I donít mean the extra vaccines, but current system has made it tougher for them to distribute extra vaccines. Likewise, Iím pretty sure the Walgreen I visited didnít really end up finishing their extra vaccines. If we didnít happen to know somebody, they probably wouldíve wasted more...

    Anyway, not trying to be critical because current system is bad, just wish to improve it better.

    Our government couldíve done so many things better but didnít. After itís over and another pandemic hits, we will probably keep on making the same mistakes... Iím not really sure if this is due to our incompetence or our divisiveness or probably a bit of both...

  7. #2607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikadyn View Post
    Would be easier to just lock unvaxxed people out of part of society where they are a threat, say any confined space for more than a few minutes. Add in no religious exemptions and less people can skirt it.
    Not sure if thatís a good reason to lock people up... can we lock people up for refusing to wear seat belts?

    It is weird to have religious exemptions as if this were tax or something... I think believers are split in this area. Some believe God is the best vaccine and will protect them. And obviously Iím not in that camp who believes in testing God...

  8. #2608
    反重力 Rikadyn's Avatar
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    Lock people out not up, like how kids are supposed to be vaxed to get into public school or for visas to be issued by some countries.

    If God is the best vaccine then why did he create the real vaccine through the scientists.

    Not that I believe that, but really anything that God can be used to dismiss, can equally be used to support...

  9. #2609
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    Yeah, ok, I can agree with that. People can exercise their freedom to be anti masks or anti vaccines, but youíll also have to accept the responsibility of being locked outside of schools and stores...

    Anyway, regarding God, I believe He certainly could protect us, but I donít believe we should put ourselves in harms way and then expecting Him to protect us.

    Of course Iím a bit conflicted about considering going to church to be the same as being in harms way...

    We can have online services now, but 100 years ago during Spanish flu, should people just stop going to church?

    Iím glad that I donít have to worry about that dilemma today...

  10. #2610
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    I drove about an hour and a half to get the single dose johnson and johnson vaccine yesterday, my best understanding of the situation is that Oregon sent a bunch of those to rural areas, and it seems the appointments aren't all being taken. Where I went was still a little hard to find an appointment, but looking at Roseburg way down at the southern end of the state there are two walgreens with wide open schedules for appointments. It's pretty crazy compared to Portland, you can spend all day clicking through pharmacy websites and not find anything.

    Part of Oregon's system works more or less as it should, you just answer the questions and setup an account, then when you're eligible you go into a random lottery, and at some point you'll get an email to sign up for an appointment at the convention center. But then you've also got pharmacies doing vaccines, and they all have separate registration systems that end up prioritizing people like me that are working from home and can have a separate screen up all day refreshing pharmacy scheduling pages.

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