Politics

[FaultyMario]

From God's twitter:


Just when I think you can't get any dumber, you do something like defeat Roy Moore and Donald Trump and TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELVES!

[dodint]

https://politics.theonion.com/roy-moore-retires-from-politics-to-spend-more-quality-t-1821235915/amp

[Freude am Fahren]

Looks like decency has prevailed in Alabama :up:
That's a sentence you would never expect to hear.


Can't wait for Trump's reaction :D


Congratulations to Doug Jones on a hard fought victory. The write-in votes played a very big factor, but a win is a win. The people of Alabama are great, and the Republicans will have another shot at this seat in a very short period of time. It never ends!

Relatively tame, though still a bit douchey. Just wait until he's toilet-tweeting at 4:00 a.m.

[Fogelhund]

ya... that Trump tweet... wasn't Trump.

[G'day Mate]

Um ... the dem got 49.9 percent. I guess he thinks that - just like the "rigged" election - every single one of the 1.7% of write-in votes would have gone his way.

[JSGeneral]

https://youtu.be/WFYRkzznsc0

Don't know if this should be in the Epic Fail thread... but since it deals with Roy Moore's spokesman before last night's election... thought it might be appropriate here.

[MR2 Fan]

ya... that Trump tweet... wasn't Trump.



100% wasn't Trump unless he had a brain transplant in the middle of the night

[dodint]

If you have to accept some of Trumps tweets as his don't you have to accept all of them as his? Seems logically disingenuous to pick and choose which ones you hold up to scrutiny. I ask because of the people that insist Tweets are official White House correspondence leave no room for the ambiguity you're trying to use.

[FaultyMario]

"I'll allow it" because it means we get to allow all the entertaining crazy shit.

[Crazed_Insanity]

First of all, I just want to shout Halleluja! For the Lord has heard George's prayer! :D



"Lord, protect me from your followers."

Republican voters are beginning to grow some conscience!

Now, back to arguing with Swervo:

Is there any part of this that you plan to own? Like, claiming that leftists won't vote for people who attend church?

Look, you're absolutely right that pretty much all politicians are christians and attend churches of some kind, so I can own the fact that my original language was too sloppy. What I meant to say is that folks who are too serious or outspoken about their faith may not do very well with liberals. Not really sure how Delaney will showcase his faith... and I'm pretty sure that can have an impact. Surely you'd agree that talking scripture and Jesus while campaigning in blue states won't help him win any points, right? However, doing so in red states may help him quite a bit. Can you agree with that assessment?

[Freude am Fahren]

Moore got less than 150k fewer votes than Sessions did when he ran as an unopposed incumbent in 2014 (650k vs. 790k).

There was actually a challenger this time and democratic/independent voters showed up. Total voting went from 818k to 1.34M from 2014.

By the way, write-ins were identical. 22k in 2014, and 2017.

[George]

Republican voters are beginning to grow some conscience!

From what I've seen this morning, I don't think Republicans grew any kind of a conscience. It appears they mostly voted along party lines again, without regard to the character of the candidate.

One source of several I've seen this morning: Washington Post exit poll results: How different groups voted in Alabama (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/politics/alabama-exit-polls/?utm_term=.b4114d58b121)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I thought the write in ballots were the key to Roys defeat? To do that, those voters must've done it because of conscience?

[George]

Well, all I know is what I've seen on various sites such as the one I linked above, but it looks like polls are saying the vast majority of registered Republicans who voted in this election voted for Moore.

I can't seem to grab the URL of any of the charts on that page to post them here, but if you scroll down to about one-third of the way down that page, there's a chart saying that 91% of Republican voters told pollsters they voted for Moore.

If true, this makes the Alabama Republican party look like it doesn't give a damn about morals or character. I don't understand how anyone with a sense of right and wrong could vote for Moore. Or Trump.

And I used to be a pretty serious Republican. Now I'm just disgusted at the whole mess.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/12/13/top-takeaways-doug-jones-shocking-victory-over-roy-moore-alabama/947476001/

This is the article that said it's the 'write-in' votes that did Moore in... 22,780 of republicans just couldn't vote for a democrat nor Roy Moore so they wrote in somebody else on the ballot.

Jones won by fewer than 21,000 votes.

Not sure where the final tally is, but God probably played a hand with this tiny fine tuning because He heard your prayer! ;)

I think the moral of the story is that we shouldn't take party lines too seriously. If you're always on one side and cannot find any redeeming values on the other side, then you're probably a bit too polarized.

I also hope both parties pay attention to voter frustration at this lesser of the 2 evil game. Just present us higher quality candidates in the future please!

Anyway, I hope the sacrifice made by Al Franken will be all worth it in the end...

George, please pray for President Trump too! :D

[G'day Mate]

Tuesday night, the Alabama secretary of state tallied 22,780 votes for write-in candidates, though many of those may ultimately be discarded because they were not cast far an actual registered candidate. Jones beat Moore by fewer than 21,000 votes. You do the math.

As a point of comparison, in 2016, Shelby won his re-election 64%-36% over a Democratic challenger, and there were fewer than 4,000 write-in ballots. And that was in a presidential year, so there were many more voters participating in the election (about 2.1 million versus the 1.3 million votes cast Tuesday night.)

Do the math? Ok ... 22,780 minus 4,000ish usual write-ins is not enough to change the vote. Moore would have had to count on 92% of the write-ins voting for him instead.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Gee, you and swervo really like to nitpick the details, huh? ;)

FaF in an earlier post claimed the they get about 22k write-in votes every election cycle... So who's right and who's posting fake news? Who the fuck cares at this point?

The important point is that there were enough Republican voters with sufficient conscience which allowed Jones to win. There's still a glimmer of hope for America. Amexit is not going to continue out of control! This should be a turning point..., hopefully we won't go any lower...

[21Kid]

If I voted purely based on faith, I'd have no candidates to vote for in almost any election. So yeah, those on the left have no problem ignoring the religion of a candidate, as long as the policy is there.

The same can't be said for the right, though, imo.Yup. And 80% of "Christians" voted for Moore. :smh: Seems like "values" have nothing to do with it.

[G'day Mate]

Well what does the bible say about kiddy-fiddling?


And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites ... And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males ... And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones ... And Moses was wroth with the officers ... And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

[George]

"When you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything."

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well what does the bible say about kiddy-fiddling?

Dude, way to get serious with the Bible! That's good! But to put it in some sort of context, it's like saying you kill all the nazi guys for what they did to the jews, but can keep the nazi chicks for yourself if you want. I don't think it's justification for what Roy was accused of doing...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yup. And 80% of "Christians" voted for Moore. :smh: Seems like "values" have nothing to do with it.

So how to explain the other 20%? How can you be sure value has nothing to do with it?

Anyway, you only need to sway enough of them to change the tide.

Democrats won, is it just me or you all still don't seem very hopeful of some sort of reversal...

Still way too many deplorables in the country, right? I know. Nobody really wants them around.... only Jesus is stupid enough to want to save them and love them.... not to mention to die for them. What a loving fool my Lord is...

[KillerB]

Anyone want to talk tax policy? ;)

[G'day Mate]

Dude, way to get serious with the Bible! That's good! But to put it in some sort of context, it's like saying you kill all the nazi guys for what they did to the jews, but can keep the nazi chicks for yourself if you want. I don't think it's justification for what Roy was accused of doing...

My main point was just that the bible doesn't prohibit kiddy-fiddling. Instead, if anything, it condones it.

[Tom Servo]

Now, that's not true. If someone else has fiddled with them, then you're supposed to kill them instead.

[neanderthal]

Lost in the euphoria of the Alabama senate win is the fact that 49% of the voters voted for a pedophile who recently said America was greatest when we had slavery.

[Crazed_Insanity]

To be fair, it is possible that Roy didn't do those things and was falsely accused. I'm pretty sure those 49% voted for him did so Not believing him to be a pedophile...

Anyway, the euphoria is still warranted because this pedophile could've been elected. Tide is changing! I was expecting the worst, and hoping for the best. Glad the worst didn't happen. You guys just let Jesus take care of those 49%, surely God can change deplorables to become better.

If God is really as deplorable as those Christians, surely He will make sure slaves and women and gays remain inferior to white dudes and therefore able to keep America great! But of course God is not like that... God is bipartisan and loves all!

[Crazed_Insanity]

My main point was just that the bible doesn't prohibit kiddy-fiddling. Instead, if anything, it condones it.

Bible condoned polygamy in the past but we've banned that in modern societies. Does that mean bible shouldn't be taken seriously?

Go back even further, Adam and eves kids must've committed incesteous relationships..., but what else can they do?

Time period can change things. Can't judge everything under modern day standards.

[G'day Mate]

Are you saying that paedophilia was one right or that the bible is not relevant?

I'm just being silly, so don't answer that. Or do, but I'm not looking to start a bible fight in the politics thread.

All I'm really saying is that Christians have no biblical reason to oppose a paedophile. A gay candidate, sure, and females too of course, but not a paedophile.

[neanderthal]

Bullshit Fucking Sanders tried co-opting the Alabama win and Twitter wasted no time putting him in his place.

Then along came this article, (https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2016/8/1/12337522/bernie-bust-sanders-delegate?__twitter_impression=true)somewhere in the feed, explaining how those of us who are minorities can't/ won't stand for the Bernie or bust bullshit.

[21Kid]

Anyone want to talk tax policy? ;)
Or Net Neutrality... It was nice knowing you all. :(

[Jason]

I don't know enough about the tax plan to make much of a comment. It seems to be, yet again, favoring trickle down economics... Something I'm highly skeptical of.

[Jason]

Huh, weird... I posted a response to Bernie stuff, but it's gone? Maybe I accidentally deleted it when attempting to edit...

Anyways... Bernie and his most adamant followers have been fairly problematic. I'm a big fan of some of the policies he has been pushing, but the rhetoric and my way or the highway attitude needs to be dialed back, otherwise a) they are never going to be done, and b) the left becomes weakened due to splintering.

[21Kid]

Huh... :? Interesting. I wonder how they will spin this to something positive that Herr Trump did. Or maybe he didn't realize(or read) what he was signing.

Trump signs bill that recognizes climate change as a threat to the US (https://inhabitat.com/trump-signs-bill-that-recognizes-climate-change-as-a-threat-to-us/)

This past Tuesday, President Trump signed a bill into law that formally recognizes climate change as a national security threat to the United States. While the president has long railed against climate change and advocated for fossil fuels, the Trump Administration and a Republican-controlled Congress have taken a small but significant step towards formally recognizing climate change. Now that this stance has become codified law, the United States will be further pressured to act.

The climate change provision reached the president’s desk as an amendment to the must-pass, annual National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). Republican leadership attempted to remove the provision from the bill, but were defeated when 46 Republican representatives defected and voted to uphold the provision.

[MR2 Fan]

Does this mean they'll set up a massive "war on climate change" bureaucracy akin to the "war on drugs" which hasn't helped anything?

[FaultyMario]

Anyways... Bernie and his most adamant followers have been fairly problematic. I'm a big fan of some of the policies he has been pushing, but the rhetoric and my way or the highway attitude needs to be dialed back, otherwise a) they are never going to be done, and b) the left becomes weakened due to splintering.

Is that's what's happening in the DNC reform thing that they're doing or is that how it is being filtered by some media outlets?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Are you saying that paedophilia was one right or that the bible is not relevant?

I'm just being silly, so don't answer that. Or do, but I'm not looking to start a bible fight in the politics thread.

All I'm really saying is that Christians have no biblical reason to oppose a paedophile. A gay candidate, sure, and females too of course, but not a paedophile.

One simplest way to classify whether if something is okay or not is... is it based on love or are you just fucking with somebody? That's basically why I think Bible is relevant because it taught me that God is love and love covers it all!

If you really love somebody and serious about taking care of them and not just to satisfy your sexual urges, I think pretty much any kind of relationships can be justified.

The problem is that it's hard for us to quantify something as abstract as love... so we setup laws to protect folks from being duped by manipulative predators.

Seriously, what is really so magical about your 18th birthday that you transform from a kid to an adult? And that if somebody over 18 made who really loves you and made passionate love to you absolutely must be send to jail for it? Had she waited til the day of your 18th birthday, then she's fine. Do you see how ridiculous this secular law is? But of course, I'm not saying secular laws are totally irrelevant either. It's in place to protect kids from being preyed upon.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Bullshit Fucking Sanders tried co-opting the Alabama win and Twitter wasted no time putting him in his place.

Then along came this article, (https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2016/8/1/12337522/bernie-bust-sanders-delegate?__twitter_impression=true)somewhere in the feed, explaining how those of us who are minorities can't/ won't stand for the Bernie or bust bullshit.

You're allowing fear to drive you. Almost everyone loved Bernie one time or another, including you..., but you're just too afraid of Trump that you're willing to settle for status quo.

I ask you this... do black lives really matter more in blue states during Obama's reign? If you really believe black lives are doing wonderfully in blue states, I can understand why you want status quo. However, I really don't think that's the case.

Bernie could help, but I honestly do believe his campaign was sabotaged by the rich folks or whoever's holding political power at the time. Hillary also made no attempts at soothing the Bernie or bust voters. Better together? I honestly don't believe she knows how to work together. If you're not together with her, then she'll forget you.

I can't believe you guys are still blaming Bernie Sanders for Hillary's lost.

[MR2 Fan]

Well Net Neutrality got repealed

So continues the outcome after GOP voters not realizing they're doing the political equivalent of drinking bleach

[Crazed_Insanity]

You'll just have to let them drink bleach... and die off so that proper political order may be restored...

Trump is not the most popular president. His endorsements don't mean much anymore. If he doesn't make America great again soon, then the power will shift back.

I don't see how regular conservative voters can really want big companies having more control of the net and permanent tax cuts... all the while regular Joes continues to enjoy slow and expensive internet access (compared to other nations) and average Joes also only get temporary tax cuts...

Conservatives can't be that dumb to gladly accept all that, can they? Surely there'll be more Roy Moores.

[drew]

Does this mean they'll set up a massive "war on climate change" bureaucracy akin to the "war on drugs" which hasn't helped anything?

Something akin to Floridians shooting at hurricanes.

[neanderthal]

You're allowing fear to drive you. Almost everyone loved Bernie one time or another, including you..., but you're just too afraid of Trump that you're willing to settle for status quo.

I ask you this... do black lives really matter more in blue states during Obama's reign? If you really believe black lives are doing wonderfully in blue states, I can understand why you want status quo. However, I really don't think that's the case.

Bernie could help, but I honestly do believe his campaign was sabotaged by the rich folks or whoever's holding political power at the time. Hillary also made no attempts at soothing the Bernie or bust voters. Better together? I honestly don't believe she knows how to work together. If you're not together with her, then she'll forget you.

I can't believe you guys are still blaming Bernie Sanders for Hillary's lost.

Please, don't tell me what to feel. And just don't comment on Black Lives Matter; you've shown a complete misunderstanding, an opposite of understanding of it as it were, to say anything about it.

We're not blaming Bernie Sanders; we're blaming the idiots who said it was Bernie or Bust and voted for Bernie, Harambe, or Jill fucking Stein. They chose to assuage their feewings and not vote for the best candidate left in the race and we all ended up with the worst President in the history of America, and are now getting assailed with a GOP tax scam policy that's been demonstrated to fail, free speech being curtailed (thank you net neutrality!) rights decimated, on the brink of nuclear war with North Korea, the climate is losing again (yay, we all perish!) healthcare is still up in the air, and unfit judges being seated on the bench for lifetime appointments. Hooray America.

Hillary wasn't the best candidate but she was the best of the two mainstream candidates most likely to win and Trump was literally the worst candidate ever. So yeah, thanks "independent voters." You really really showed them with your protest vote, but you actually fucking fucked us all. I hope you feel good about yourself. CHIP wasn't renewed, so a bunch of kids have no health insurance right now. YOU DID THAT. BE PROUD!

[Freude am Fahren]

By the way, write-ins were identical. 22k in 2014, and 2017.

Quoting, because I think some missed it. Also note, that as a percentage of overall votes, that's actually half as many write-ins.

ETA: and I missed a new page, but whatever.

[FaultyMario]

Yo homies, I need a favor. We just passed a terrible law that puts our armed forces outside the direct control of our civilian authorities, It's widely seen (https://www.wola.org/analysis/international-human-rights-bodies-civil-society-groups-share-concerns-mexicos-internal-security-law/) as a political option in case the elections get out of hand (i.e. the status quo loses).

Can you all please hurry up with that Trump Impeachment/Arraignment? without the full support of the U.S., our dear leaders are less likely to go for the dictatorial option.

Thank you.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neanderthal, since we can't discuss in details because I'm just too stupid to understand, let's talk big picture.

Had the 'status quo' really been working or at least been good to most of the liberal base, Bernie Sanders would NOT be able to splinter the liberals and Trump wouldn't be able to win.

I think America's race issues are probably somewhat lessened over the years because we can see black leaders even on the GOP side. However, if you're poor, then the problem is probably worsened. Even if you're white, you'll be ignored. Of course if you're poor and black, than that's a double whammy!

Anyway, I suppose the main problem with political polarization is that voters are no longer voting for what they think is right, but they think the other folks are voting to fuck with them.

You can be sure that me voting for Stein is not a vote to fuck you. However, of course I know I can't tell you how to feel, but I'm not going to waste my vote in order to help you feel good. I have to feel good too. I just don't feel good voting for somebody I don't like. If everyone in America votes (write-in) accordingly, these 2 parties strangle hold on this nation would end... or they will at least feed us more decent candidates to vote on.

[MR2 Fan]

Bernie Sanders was able to splinter them a bit because Hillary had a LOT of baggage, plus being attacked non-stop for YEARS even dating back to when Bill was president.

Also, it's irrelevant because if our election system made any sense, Hillary would have been president...3 MILLION more votes is a LOT

[George]

The Democrats had the wrong candidate in Hillary. No doubt about it. I believe that if she had been elected, her administration would have been crippled by immediate and ongoing claims of corruption and scandals, special investigators being appointed, Senate hearings, and so forth.

We would still be much better off than we are today, but we might not realize it. I propose four or eight years of Hillary would only have brought about the election of someone like Trump down the road.

Maybe it's better to get a Trump administration over sooner than later, when looking at the long game.

[MR2 Fan]

The Democrats had the wrong candidate in Hillary. No doubt about it. I believe that if she had been elected, her administration would have been crippled by immediate and ongoing claims of corruption and scandals, special investigators being appointed, Senate hearings, and so forth.

Agreed and I mean that IF she was elected, but the dems couldn't fill the other seats. That's the other big problem the dems have is there seems to be no big push to fill all seats....they get the presidency but lost TONS and TONS of seats during the Obama administration.

People tried to blame Obama for that, for some reason, but again the GOP tapped in to people's fears and racism to get their lower tier candidates elected and the dems don't seem to know how to play hardball in politics. The GOP has the propaganda game FAR FAR better than the dems. I'm not saying the dems should use the same tactics, but do something.

Clearly the dems can't just lay back and let the GOP self destruct because there's enough of stupid people who fall for the radical bullshit they promote. In most civilized countries, the GOP tactics and stances would have led them to a small footnote of history, but here, they're making hay out of it.

[neanderthal]

Agreed and I mean that IF she was elected, but the dems couldn't fill the other seats. That's the other big problem the dems have is there seems to be no big push to fill all seats....they get the presidency but lost TONS and TONS of seats during the Obama administration.

People tried to blame Obama for that, for some reason, but again the GOP tapped in to people's fears and racism to get their lower tier candidates elected and the dems don't seem to know how to play hardball in politics. The GOP has the propaganda game FAR FAR better than the dems. I'm not saying the dems should use the same tactics, but do something.

Clearly the dems can't just lay back and let the GOP self destruct because there's enough of stupid people who fall for the radical bullshit they promote. In most civilized countries, the GOP tactics and stances would have led them to a small footnote of history, but here, they're making hay out of it.

The GOP are able to propagate their nonsense through the completely separate propaganda arms their puppeteers may or may not control; Faux News and and all the talk radio stations in the band.
All this is aided by the declining standards of education in public schools (i'm not blaming teachers mind you, teachers do HEROIC work every day,) demolition of the fairness doctrine, monopolistic ownership of media, the ability to propagate that message through various "unaffiliated media" as a result, Citizens fucking United, etc etc etc. This is a death of a thousand cuts scenario where the first to warn us were mocked with various renditions of "oh, the sky is falling?"

We've been given little hints and tidbits of their aim over the years; to raid social security and medicare. This tax scam is a bold gambit, a daring brazen chess move so gauche it was previously unthinkable. No longer are they lurking in the shadows just beyond the light, they are coming straight for the front door. And they can do it because for decades now they've been priming the population with their "taxes are evil" spiel. Their "the government is too big" rhetoric. Their free market ideas. "They're coming to take your guns." And of course "they're attacking your freedom." So where government was once a civil and noble thing involved in the welfare of the people, its considered a pest and a hindrance, leeching off the people.

And when they succeed in wrenching our wealth from us we're going to sit in our homes watching reality tv because we've been programmed that civil disobedience is still disobedience. Because they created the crisis ("War On Drugs,") that preempted the "Law and Order," that fomented the disparate sentencing, that begat the school to prison pipeline, that unfairly targeted the black community, that declared Black Lives Matter, that disgusted the non blacks who saw them as criminals, hoodlums and thugs (remember the programming?) and their protests and mass movements as illegal and criminal. And they, upstanding law abiding citizens, could never engage in such. That's what them low class trash negros do. And we can't be like them.

Y'all be sleeping on the robber barons. But they've been pitting the poor working class white against black people since the days of slavery, and fleecing you and the country all the while.

[neanderthal]

Bernie Sanders was able to splinter them a bit because Hillary had a LOT of baggage, plus being attacked non-stop for YEARS even dating back to when Bill was president.

Also, it's irrelevant because if our election system made any sense, Hillary would have been president...3 MILLION more votes is a LOT


The Democrats had the wrong candidate in Hillary. No doubt about it. I believe that if she had been elected, her administration would have been crippled by immediate and ongoing claims of corruption and scandals, special investigators being appointed, Senate hearings, and so forth.

We would still be much better off than we are today, but we might not realize it. I propose four or eight years of Hillary would only have brought about the election of someone like Trump down the road.

Maybe it's better to get a Trump administration over sooner than later, when looking at the long game.

All the Hillary baggage was created and contrived and repeated and propagated and debated ad nauseum for 30 years.

Her emails revealed; nothing.
Benghazi revealed; nothing.
Clinton Foundation revealed; nothing.
Every single instance and innuendo revealed; nothing.

But it was discussed, analysed, blown out of proportion, mischaracterised, denigrated, criminalised, repeated and adjudicated in the media so long that it ended up in the ephemera just long enough to be so tangible and so widely known that i can say "but her emails" and you know exactly who i'm talking about and what it pertains to, and how it's wrong, and how she wasn't punished, but most critically not anything of any real substance or criminality in said emails.
Other than a pasta recipe from one of her aides.

[FaultyMario]

Please, Mo, tell me more about the Clinton System®

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hey, that's not fair, doc love had nothing to do with the emails! :p

Anyway, I think George captured my sentiments exactly.

[speedpimp]

Please, Mo, tell me more about the Clinton System®

Steps 1-100: Make a contribution to the Clinton Foundation.

[neanderthal]

Please, Mo, tell me more about the Clinton System®

I, honestly, don't know what you're asking me.

[21Kid]

All the Hillary baggage was created and contrived and repeated and propagated and debated ad nauseum for 30 years.

Her emails revealed; nothing.
Benghazi revealed; nothing.
Clinton Foundation revealed; nothing.
Every single instance and innuendo revealed; nothing.

But it was discussed, analysed, blown out of proportion, mischaracterised, denigrated, criminalised, repeated and adjudicated in the media so long that it ended up in the ephemera just long enough to be so tangible and so widely known that i can say "but her emails" and you know exactly who i'm talking about and what it pertains to, and how it's wrong, and how she wasn't punished, but most critically not anything of any real substance or criminality in said emails.
Other than a pasta recipe from one of her aides.

I'm still amazed that at the same time her opponent
- Bragged about being able to "Grab them by the pussy" and he "moved on her like a bitch" (I have a difficult time even typing that).
- Was in the midst of a lawsuit for a fraudulent school he ran.
- Called for people to attack protestors at his rallies
- made fun of handicapped reporter
- completely lied about people cheering for 9/11
-...

You know what... I don't have time to list all of the truly horrible things he actually did, there were so many. :smh: But, for some reason his party believed him, even over audio/video proof otherwise, usually of HIMSELF saying the opposite. And voted this scumbag to be president. I blame anyone who votes for their party over the good of the country. :(

[MR2 Fan]

Jill Stein part of the conspiracy:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/emmaloop/the-senates-russia-investigation-is-now-looking-into-jill?utm_term=.eiD76YxO6#.pmmM7QZJ7

[neanderthal]

I'm still amazed that at the same time her opponent
- Bragged about being able to "Grab them by the pussy" and he "moved on her like a bitch" (I have a difficult time even typing that).
- Was in the midst of a lawsuit for a fraudulent school he ran.
- Called for people to attack protestors at his rallies
- made fun of handicapped reporter
- completely lied about people cheering for 9/11
-...

You know what... I don't have time to list all of the truly horrible things he actually did, there were so many. :smh: But, for some reason his party believed him, even over audio/video proof otherwise, usually of HIMSELF saying the opposite. And voted this scumbag to be president. I blame anyone who votes for their party over the good of the country. :(

And there were people saying "they're both the same" or other similarly incorrect versions of that, to the point of refusing to vote for her. Was she perfect? No. The other guy was far worse, fucking terrible in fact, but to this day those who believe that will stick to their guns but fail to tell you what made actually made her so horrible.It's not tangible at all. Politics version of flat eartherism; belief without substance, undaunted by facts or reason.

[neanderthal]

Jill Stein part of the conspiracy:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/emmaloop/the-senates-russia-investigation-is-now-looking-into-jill?utm_term=.eiD76YxO6#.pmmM7QZJ7

Wouldn't be surprised if Bernie is next. No lie.

[mk]

The other guy was far worse, fucking terrible in fact, but

is needed.

Only full house can really do things, nowadays.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wouldn't be surprised if Bernie is next. No lie.
I'd be surprised if they'd go after somebody who's not part of the election and endorsed Hillary...

It'd be funny if after all the investigation, Jill stein is put in jail while we still have president Trump.

[drew]

Hooray for tax bill passage. Hope they're all ready to start winning the fuck out of things.

[Freude am Fahren]

I asked my boss (one of those rampant fox news types) when my raise was coming today.

He responded with some small business, flyover state bullshit.

[Tom Servo]

I like that Trump basically came out and said that they deliberately hid one of the effects of the bill (that removing the individual mandate would essentially kill the ACA) from the public. I'm trying to figure out how telling the public "Ha, ha, tricked ya!" is a good political strategy.

[21Kid]

Trumps political strategy seems to be IDGAF!!!


And it seems to be working. :smh: He's keepin it real, remember?


He's the most liangist liar to ever lie (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/).

[Tom Servo]

That reminds me, I meant to post this but don't think I did. NY Times responding to the idea that "Obama lied just as much as Trump": https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/14/opinion/sunday/trump-lies-obama-who-is-worse.html

[drew]

Maybe in the first 10 minutes

[neanderthal]

Finding/ seeing/ hearing more and more news that attacks on Hillary from the left originated in Russia. Where them Bernie or Bust- ers? :angry:

I also saw a headline that said the UK government is asking Prince Harry and Megan Markle to NOT invite the Obamas to their wedding because they don't want trump to be offended as he hasn't met the Queen yet. Prince Harry wants the Obamas there.

Me, i'm like "Fuck trump. And those who voted for him!!!!"

[Tom Servo]

Presented without comment.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSLCgN3UIAEEvlz.jpg:large

[Tom Servo]

I lied. Comment is that his own golf course in Ireland applied for permission to build a sea wall, citing global warming as a flooding threat.

[G'day Mate]

How can this be accurate?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSK2pluVAAAcN6N?format=jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

As general Kelly said, just ignore his tweets.

[Tom Servo]

I like that he's bragging that a majority of people still don't approve of the job he's doing.

[mk]

How can this be accurate?

Rasmussen for GOP is constantly above average.

[Tom Servo]

As of last week, Rasmussen was the highest at 44%. Pew Research and Monmouth were the lowest at 32%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_approval_rating

EDIT: Also of note, it's dropped a point since then and his disapproval with the same poll is at 53%. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_dec29 (annoying autoplay video with sound on that site)

[neanderthal]

I like that he's bragging that a majority of people still don't approve of the job he's doing.

I saw that immediately. I chortled.

[Tom Servo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSfuZr5WAAEL62B.jpg:large

[Jason]

Re approval ratings:

http://dyn.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

I find aggregates do a better job than a single poll, personally. He has been "trending" up the last couple of weeks, but "trends" over a short period of time are kinda worthless.

[Tom Servo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSiraLsVQAABm0_.jpg:large

Wut?

Seriously, has anyone heard him mention commercial aviation, or pretty much any aviation, at all? What'd he do, sign an executive order telling airline pilots not to crash planes?

EDIT: Probably one of the better articles so far this morning about just how damn weird that was: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/trumps-bogus-claim-of-credit-for-aviation-safety/549461/ Notably, this stat was the first time worldwide. US commercial aviation hasn't had a death since 2009, and no passenger-jet deaths since 2006. Thanks, Obama.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think aerospace engineers, manufacturing, maintenance workers and air traffic controllers deserve the credit more than any presidents.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSfuZr5WAAEL62B.jpg:large
Sigh, this is why I'm a Bernie or buster.

[21Kid]

I think you need to highlight that more... First, the statistic involved is crashes worldwide.

So, he's taking credit for all commercial air traffic worldwide. :lol: Thanks Trump!

Ugh, I can't even say that ironically. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


:lol: If anything, Trump has promised to loosen regulations on aviation. Meeting with airlines executives in February 2017, Trump complained of a “regulatory morass that’s a disaster” and said he’d loosen “burdensome regulations.”

[drew]

I...just....

This guy is a fucking riot.

Very strict on commercial aviation"

dafuq dat mean?

[21Kid]

:eek:

The three senior guys in the campaign thought it was a good idea to meet with a foreign government inside Trump Tower in the conference room on the 25th floor -- with no lawyers. They didn't have any lawyers," Bannon continued, according to the Guardian. "Even if you thought that this was not treasonous, or unpatriotic, or bad s***, and I happen to think it's all of that, you should have called the FBI immediately.
http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/03/politics/bannon-wolff-fire-and-fury/index.html

[SportWagon]

Interesting. You can buy "Dangerous Juvenile Tyrant" T-shirts. Nearby search results suggest Samantha Bee can no longer effectively use twitter anymore, and suggests it's actually because of some action by Trump and/or supporters. (Haven't got through the adware on relevant links yet to find enough details...)

[drew]

So Bannon is the voice of reason?


:lol:

Fucking hell.

Well, I guess it IS about to snow here.

[MR2 Fan]

So Bannon is the voice of reason?


:lol:

Fucking hell.

Well, I guess it IS about to snow here.

:lol:

[Tom Servo]

Dear leader is unhappy with Bannon.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSotb0pU8AAJTYY.jpg:large

[Random]

"...often described as the most talented field ever assembled in the Republican Primary."

Oh god.

[G'day Mate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nranUeNkXpM

[Crazed_Insanity]

That's pretty cool! :lol:

[FaultyMario]

You can't make this up! (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/michael-wolff-my-insane-year-inside-trumps-white-house-1071504)

[novicius]

At Mar-a-Lago, just before the new year, a heavily made-up Trump failed to recognize a succession of old friends.
What a senile old shitbag. :lol:

[FaultyMario]

We've heard often about the exploits of the "Committee to Save America," a loose confederation of administration officials who allegedly prevent the president from acting on his worst impulses and dumbest ideas—and who are eager to anonymously share news of their heroism with political reporters. This storyline has always smacked of craven self-preservation, and sure enough, the evidence is piling up that these people, in the interest of bolstering the Republican agenda and/or furthering their own careers, are knowingly covering up for a president in decline—and one who, they believe, could be undone by Robert Mueller's investigation in short order. Quitting the administration and sharing what they know with the American people would be the courageous and patriotic thing to do. But in this White House, those qualities are in short supply.

https://www.gq.com/story/white-house-no-faith-in-trump

[Cam]

Wow.

[George]

And this:

The Atlantic article: Is Something Neurologically Wrong With Donald Trump? (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/01/trump-cog-decline/548759/)

[Cam]

*Looks at watch* How is he still prez? Shouldn't that Russia investigation done already?

[neanderthal]

And the election that was one by one vote, and had one vote declared null to create a tie, has been decided by a drawing of lots. Democracy in America.

[MR2 Fan]

And the election that was one by one vote, and had one vote declared null to create a tie, has been decided by a drawing of lots. Democracy in America.

And it went to the GOP (I'm SHOCKED!)

[G'day Mate]

Is there any sort of expected time frame for the Mueller investigation?

[Tom Servo]

Nothing official. Trump's supporters were thinking it'd be over by the end of 2017. I've heard others say that they expect it to last at least through this year as well. It's essentially an FBI investigation, so it sounds like it's "it'll take as long as it takes".

[G'day Mate]

I guess the longer it goes the worse it looks ... to a point

[novicius]

The book goes out on sale tomorrow... and I bet Trump takes credit for the book sales. :lol:

Also I hope the audiobook is narrated by Obama. :D

[FaultyMario]

That reminds me of Cenk Uygur saying that when he's locked up, Trump should be forced to listen to "The Audacity of Hope" nonstop.

[G'day Mate]

I authorized Zero access to White House (actually turned him down many times) for author of phony book! I never spoke to him for book. Full of lies, misrepresentations and sources that don’t exist. Look at this guy’s past and watch what happens to him and Sloppy Steve!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[G'day Mate]

Oh, is that book on sale now?

[novicius]

Yuuup. :)

Wolff on book's early release date: 'Thank you, Mr. President' (http://thehill.com/homenews/media/367491-wolff-on-books-early-release-date-thank-you-mr-president)

[novicius]

As an aside, I thought this article was interesting: Rebekah Mercer, the billionaire backer of Bannon and Trump, chooses sides (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/01/05/rebekah-mercer-the-billionaire-backer-of-bannon-and-trump-chooses-sides/?utm_term=.fa0a41f83f6e).


In 2013, Caddell showed his polling data to both Robert Mercer and Bannon at a conservative conference in Palm Beach. The donor was so intrigued with the populist trend he would keep Caddell polling data right up to the 2016 election.

The results eventually found their way to Roger Stone, who shared them with his longtime confidant, Trump. As the Republican presidential primary season started, Caddell tested the field as potential Mr. Smith upstarts.

“People didn’t think Trump had the temperament to be President,” Caddell told Mayer. “He clearly wasn’t the best Smith, but he was the only Smith.”

[tigeraid]

2809

[21Kid]

Stage = 'Merica

[Crazed_Insanity]

I have a computer on my desk and I regularly push on bunch of its buttons!

Unlike some of those coward lazy world leaders who are too scared to do any real work!

[Tom Servo]

The president, ladies and gentlemen.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS1Mj-QV4AAVR5F.jpg:large

[Cam]

Insert Picard facepalm gif.

[drew]

"Made up to sell his really boring and untruthful book...." Like he's read a word of it.

[MR2 Fan]

We can all sleep easier now, Donald Trump assures us he's LIKE, REALLY SMART:


....Actually, throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart. Crooked Hillary Clinton also played these cards very hard and, as everyone knows, went down in flames. I went from VERY successful businessman, to top T.V. Star.....

....to President of the United States (on my first try). I think that would qualify as not smart, but genius....and a very stable genius at that!


:smh:

[Tom Servo]

I think Mark Hamill said it better than me about the earlier tweet mentioning the "really boring and untruthful book":


Congratulations, sir! This dignified, statesman-like tweet is the perfect way to counter the book's narrative that you're an impulsive, childish dimwit.

[drew]

I heart Mark Hamill.
2810

[The359]

Wait, he tried to be President in 2012 as well...

[drew]

Facts don't mean anything after 2016.

[Tom Servo]

I'm almost certain the response would be either that previous attempts weren't "real tries", or that this is the first time he was part of the general election.

[G'day Mate]

I'd wager the former

[Yw-slayer]

He'll run both arguments!

[balki]

You two need to stop being so petty and jealous that we have a stable leader that's a genius.

[Cam]

...and has a big button, the biggest!

[Tom Servo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS860ljX0AE-Ak6.jpg:large

[Tom Servo]

Consensual?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS_CcVQU8AA4zLy.jpg:large

[21Kid]

Why is it so difficult to get rid of this guy? It seems there are numerous things he could be charged with.

What ever happened to his sexual assault charges, again?

[Cam]

Everyone has their price? Pay 'em enough and they will just go away.

[George]

When you’re a star they let you do it.

[MR2 Fan]

we're supposed to be surprised he doesn't know what "consensual" means?

[Tom Servo]

Hell, it looks like he doesn't even know how to copy & paste.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm having difficulties understanding what that tweet is saying.

He is basically just tweeting his inner thoughts without any filters for the whole world to see.

If our very own random thoughts got tweeted every so often, I'm sure we all would look pretty bad too.

Again, as General Kelly stated, ignore his tweets for your own health. Welcome him to continue using twitter though..., hopefully he'll someday accidentally tweet something we can actually charge him with...

[Tom Servo]

Oh, the tweet was supposed to be a quote from an op-ed in the NY Post. The article said "consequential".

[novicius]

NBC reports that Mueller plans to interview Trump about his ties to Russia. (https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/950404182061838336)

Here’s what we know so far about Team Trump’s ties to Russian interests. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/trump-russia/?tid=sm_rd&utm_term=.f4874646f7ee)

:popcorn:

[neanderthal]

Why is it so difficult to get rid of this guy? It seems there are numerous things he could be charged with.

What ever happened to his sexual assault charges, again?

Republicans control both houses. They could have brought impeachment charges against him on day one for emoluments. But they want to advance their rob the country of social security and Medicare first.

Greed Over People. Republicans are scum.

[Jason]

https://www.vox.com/2018/1/9/16870106/simpson-testimony-transcript

[Tom Servo]

Two republican congressman from CA (Royce and Issa) have both announced they're retiring after this term.

[FaultyMario]

Would that be because they don't want to lose to a democrat or because the sort of money to run under these conditions would get them too deep in debt?

[Tom Servo]

Neither of them, as far as I know, have said why they're doing so. That said, CA repubs are under fire because a lot of them voted in favor of the tax bill which will hit CA (and any other state with higher state income taxes and property values) particularly hard. Then again, Issa was one of only two republicans in this state that voted against the tax bill, so that can't totally be it. Also of note, the tax bill took away federal assistance for homes lost in wildfires, and Royce voted for that tax bill while a bunch of the state was currently on fire, so that didn't make him all that popular.

I don't think that it's the money issue though, I have a feeling both of those two have made plenty of money over the years from lobbyists, I don't get the impression that they're hurting. My cynical thought was with Royce on the tax bill and both of them when it came to net neutrality, they probably collected the money they wanted from lobbyists and are getting out. My personal theory that this current administration/cabinet is basically "get everything you can out of it and then get the fuck out before you have to face the consequences". Every favor you can give to big money corporate donors, then retire.

[novicius]

Yuuuup.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I can't believe people can be this short sighted... to think that getting lobbyist money and then just retire? Even if all of the financial exchanges happens offshore somewhere..., unless they move out of the country, how will they be able to enjoy all that money in the US?

Plus, a truly corrupt politician would probably want the money and to maintain power... and not retire when they don't have to...

I tend to think these Republican congressmen probably just thought that their chance of reelection is low thanks to Trump.

We just don't have that many roofers around CA. ;)

[21Kid]

(R)Mimi is in my district (#45 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California%27s_45th_congressional_district)). And there's been heavy pushback against her. I donated to her Democratic rivals campaign twice already. Her Facebook page exploded when she (or someone on her team) wrote about her support and approval of the tax reform bill. Almost all of the comments against her are negative. And she's repeatedly refused to hold town hall meetings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimi_Walters#Relationship_with_constituents).

Issa wasn't exactly hurting for money though.
Darrell Issa - Net worth $436,500,015 (est.2014)

[FaultyMario]

I'm sure Hillary is loaded as well, but wasn't a good early show of Obama's maneuvering was when he helped her cut her first presidential bid short when she was still running just to get donations to get her campaign purse even when it was evident her chances were nil?

That's something I don't understand about the money in politics systems you yanks are using; Why let politicians get everything done with OPP?

[drew]

That's the exact problem: Money.

Limit campaigns to $2M and 6 weeks. no PACs, and get rid of fucking lobbying (NRA, Oil, Pharma, etc).

The way it is now, I'm surprised they don't just make a bill allowing corporations to pull train cars right up to the mint and load new money straight into it.

It's ridiculous as shit

[Denetti]

Trump referred to Haiti and African countries as ‘shithole’ nations (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-referred-haiti-african-countries-shithole-nations-n836946)

Every day is a new low. I'm expecting the next GOP proposal to be, "we're bringing back slavery."

[Tom Servo]

Also of note, I'm not sure how he thinks immigration works, but it's not like you just order up some Norwegians to be delivered. We don't have lots of Norwegian immigrants because most Norwegians are perfectly happy to stay in Norway.

[Jason]

Between The Wall, DACA, TPS, and #shitholegate, it's really fucking clear that he doesn't want brown/black people here.

[neanderthal]

But yeah, "There's no difference between them" right? Or even "Hillary is worse..." or some other tripe.


Seriously, Trump voters can fuck right off. All the way off.

And people were wondering why I refuse to let that shit go: I, black, immigrant, African, get to live with the repercussions.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Between The Wall, DACA, TPS, and #shitholegate, it's really fucking clear that he doesn't want brown/black people here.

If you are a rich brown/black person potentially able to enrich him, I'm pretty sure he will love you.

I still believe our financial inequality is a bigger problem than our racial inequality.

Think about it, would you want to be poor white or rich black?

[Tom Servo]

Think about it, would you want to be poor white or rich black?

Funny you should ask that, there's a really good Op-Ed in the NY Times about this very subject.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/opinion/trump-immigration-white-supremacy.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection %2Fopinion-columnists

Spoiler Alert: Trump would rather be poor and white.

[Tom Servo]

Courtesy of my brother in law.

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26805263_10155232694041167_6333196527927083445_n.j pg?oh=d3568692e1fbeb93bdd6f9d60c86191f&oe=5AE65564

[Crazed_Insanity]

Funny you should ask that, there's a really good Op-Ed in the NY Times about this very subject.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/opinion/trump-immigration-white-supremacy.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection %2Fopinion-columnists

Spoiler Alert: Trump would rather be poor and white.

Maybe I have a reading comprehension problem, but somehow I don't agree with your interpretation of Trump would rather be a poor white man.

Listen, stop fixing yourselves on our idiot president for a minute..., I am asking whether if YOU'd rather be a rich black dude or a poor white dude in America.

Yes, on the same economic level, for sure white wins, racism for sure exist. However, my belief is that the gap between the rich and poor presents a bigger problem in America.

[Tom Servo]

Your question has nothing to do with it. Most of us here aren't particularly racist, so of course we'd rather be rich and black. That article points out that, amongst Trump supporters, they tend to feel otherwise.

You can survey us all you want, we do not represent the electorate. You may have a reading comprehension issue, as the whole premise of that article is that Trump rode along the back of the idea that the best black person is still inferior to the worst white person. Our opinions are immaterial in this, as none of us voted for Trump.

[neanderthal]

And the question assumes rich black people don't experience racism. As though, magically, racism goes away now that you have money.

It's why we blacks didn't go for Sanders. Racism is racism; it cannot be fixed by economics. Nor will we sit by and coddle the recent economic misfortunates while we have to deal with more racism. We've had structural racism, institutional racism holding us back and fucking us over economically, and won't be told to sit back while others are mollycoddled.

Oprah fucking Winfrey was told she couldn't afford a particular handbag. Newsflash; I can afford that handbag. Oprah could buy that whole business, the building it's housed in, all the other businesses within and probably their parent companies as well.

[FaultyMario]

Trump referred to Haiti and African countries as ‘shithole’ nations (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-referred-haiti-african-countries-shithole-nations-n836946)

Some perspective:

Time for a US Apology to El Salvador (https://www.thenation.com/article/time-for-a-us-apology-to-el-salvador/), The Nation, 2016.
Dirty Hands (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1998/12/dirty-hands/377364/) Part One, The Atlantic, 1998.


The new Secretary of State, Alexander Haig, famously declared in the first weeks of the Reagan presidency that El Salvador was the "test case" of the Administration's foreign policy and that America would "draw the line" there against "Communist interference."


US role in Salvador's brutal war (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1891145.stm) BBC News, 2002.


To defeat the rebels, the US equipped and trained an army which kidnapped and disappeared more than 30,000 people, and carried out large-scale massacres of thousands of old people women and children.
Many of the colonels in charge of these policies, far from facing war crimes tribunals at the end of the war were later made US citizens.

[FaultyMario]

Oh, and the situation in Haiti is not much different regarding American intervention. They have been under a de facto U.S. occupation since 1915.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Your question has nothing to do with it. Most of us here aren't particularly racist, so of course we'd rather be rich and black. That article points out that, amongst Trump supporters, they tend to feel otherwise.

You can survey us all you want, we do not represent the electorate. You may have a reading comprehension issue, as the whole premise of that article is that Trump rode along the back of the idea that the best black person is still inferior to the worst white person. Our opinions are immaterial in this, as none of us voted for Trump.

While it's true that racist will prefer a lousy white guy over a more qualified black dude, but you don't really believe a white supremacist really want to be poor himself, right? Surely even a dumbass white supremacist would want more money while believing he's superior to other races...

Economic gap issue exacerbates the race issue. If people are doing better financially, poor whites will be less angry and black people will be discriminated less too. Economy is also easier to fix than racism.

Right now, our nation is being controlled by the super rich.

[MR2 Fan]

And the question assumes rich black people don't experience racism. As though, magically, racism goes away now that you have money.

It's why we blacks didn't go for Sanders. Racism is racism; it cannot be fixed by economics. Nor will we sit by and coddle the recent economic misfortunates while we have to deal with more racism. We've had structural racism, institutional racism holding us back and fucking us over economically, and won't be told to sit back while others are mollycoddled.

I think it can be partially fixed by economics. Yes, there will ALWAYS be racists, but if most people were in better financial situations, it would be MUCH more difficult for them to find a scapegoat for their bad situation, whether it's black people, "mexicans" (any hispanics), or others "They're taking our jeeeerrrbs" type BS

[Tom Servo]

While it's true that racist will prefer a lousy white guy over a more qualified black dude, but you don't really believe a white supremacist really want to be poor himself, right? Surely even a dumbass white supremacist would want more money while believing he's superior to other races...

Economic gap issue exacerbates the race issue. If people are doing better financially, poor whites will be less angry and black people will be discriminated less too. Economy is also easier to fix than racism.

Right now, our nation is being controlled by the super rich.

Quit trying to explain it away. It's racism. Economic gap does not exacerbate the issue. The economic gap is an issue, for sure, but it's a different, unconnected issue. There are poor people who aren't racist at all. There are rich people that are racist as fuck (see our president, he's never been poor in his entire life).

Also, Trump's voters were not overwhelmingly poor. About a third of people who voted for him make six figures. 2/3 of them make more than the median income in the United States. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/05/its-time-to-bust-the-myth-most-trump-voters-were-not-working-class/?utm_term=.63aa3353fcf9

Honestly, to some extent it sounds like your solution is "just make sure you pay black people less than white people, otherwise they'll get irrationally angry", and that's an insane solution.

[FaultyMario]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTWLY5UXcAAdmk5.jpg

[FaultyMario]

Unfortunately, I think that the Basket of Deplorables will be exposed to the Human Rights Commission's communique not directly but thru some dimwit who will further the myth about NWO/Agenda21/Deep Guvmint.

[MR2 Fan]

https://twitter.com/SimoneGiertz/status/951873086898368518

[Crazed_Insanity]

Quit trying to explain it away. It's racism. Economic gap does not exacerbate the issue. The economic gap is an issue, for sure, but it's a different, unconnected issue. There are poor people who aren't racist at all. There are rich people that are racist as fuck (see our president, he's never been poor in his entire life).

Also, Trump's voters were not overwhelmingly poor. About a third of people who voted for him make six figures. 2/3 of them make more than the median income in the United States. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/05/its-time-to-bust-the-myth-most-trump-voters-were-not-working-class/?utm_term=.63aa3353fcf9

Honestly, to some extent it sounds like your solution is "just make sure you pay black people less than white people, otherwise they'll get irrationally angry", and that's an insane solution.

Maybe I also have a writing problem, I'm really not sure how you come up with that solution as something that I came up with. Is it because of my user name?

Anyway, not trying to explain racism away. It exists. Not trying to convince you otherwise. There will always be racism. There will also always be poor people... Not asking for communism either.

What I AM saying that we need to first find a solution for ALL to be able to climb the economic ladder better. If we are ALL better off financially, it'll be better for everybody. The widening gap between the rich and the poor is our biggest problem IMHO. If we can somehow narrow this gap, we'll be able to ease poor blacks being discriminated more and also allow the deplorable white trash to feel less angry.

USA has enough voters willing to vote for a black president for 2 terms. I think that's proof enough that our nation isn't mostly racist.

Race aside, Obama energized folks and gave people hope of a better future.

Hillary didn't do that. Had Obama truly delivered us a better future, it would've been much easier for Hillary. Somewhere along the line, this hopeful future didn't quite arrive. Anyway, enough folks are happy enough with status quo to gave Hillary the popular vote... however, there was also enough unsatisfied voters who went to Trump.

Not trying to justify my idiot president in any way, but the guy is obviously just using the deplorable white(Bannon) votes for his own gain. He has no problems firing Bannon or disavowing KKK whenever things don't suit him. The guy is mostly concern with just money or self, not really the color of his ass or anybody elses. But anyway, I don't really know him, so just guessing.

Things for sure had made a turn for the worst, but for Neanderthal, I'm pretty sure Hillary's status quo won't do much better either. DNC will offer sympathetic ears for blacks, but not much will be done while allowing the rich poor gap to continue to grow out of control.

The only candidate that energized the voters was Sanders.

Trump only had a shot because there was enough voters unhappy with status quo.

If our nation were really full of deplorables, then Obama would never have won.

There is still hope. Future politicians just need to figure out how to deliver hope to us.... and only offer 'status quo' if everything's find and dandy.

Narrowing the gap between rich and poor is also something that can be done more easily than to turn racists into loving human beings.

Blacks used to have zero role models. Today, there are all kinds of awesome black role models in all kinds of fields. White supremacist can continue to believe whatever they want to believe..., but their days are numbered.

[George]

I remember when I heard Captain Kirk say "Let's get the hell out of here" on TV after a particularly difficult adventure. It was a rerun at the time, not "live" TV, but only a few years after the original first aired. As a kid, that shocked me.

Then I remember Hawkeye Pierce calling an evil man a bastard at the end of a M*A*S*H episode. As a teenager, that shocked me.

Last night I saw the text "Shithole Countries" as the graphic up on the screen on CNN. I saw it again this morning on a TV in the lobby of an office building. As a parent of two kids in elementary school, that shocked me.

Hey, I'm no prude. I'm all for creative cursing, but it's sad when the TV news uses it while quoting the president.


Every day is a new low.

Indeed. :(

[Crazed_Insanity]

That brings up another point..., if president curses, then censorship no longer applies?

Every news media outlet is now unfiltered tweets for Trump?

[MR2 Fan]

the s-word has been able to be used in Cable for a while, even South Park did a whole episode about it

[George]

Yeah, I know there are some cable shows and network TV shows too that push the boundaries, as Star Trek and M*A*S*H and All In The Family did back then.

I was just surprised to see it in print, and staying there on the lower part of the screen as the topic being discussed.

Personally, I think shithole is a pretty funny word, when it's not in the news because the asshole-in-chief said it in public.

[FaultyMario]

One reason to respect our northern friends.

U.S. ambassador to Panama resigns, says cannot serve Trump (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-diplomacy-panama/u-s-ambassador-to-panama-resigns-says-cannot-serve-trump-idUSKBN1F1227?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Co ntent&utm_content=5a58e73d04d30166551bef85&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter)

[Tom Servo]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-s-history-breaking-decorum-remarks-race-ethnicity-n837181

[Cam]

Shithole is going to be a household word now.

[21Kid]

That's the exact problem: Money.

Limit campaigns to $2M and 6 weeks. no PACs, and get rid of fucking lobbying (NRA, Oil, Pharma, etc).

Exactly. They were already talking about 2020 before 2018. Hell, I think before trump even took office. All politicians do now is campaign (read: get donations) non-stop. trump never stopped campaigning since he took office. :smh:

There definitely needs to be a limit on both. It's gotten out of control.

[Tom Servo]

The big problem, of course, is Citizens United. Now, that could all be changed if you passed new laws or even potentially a constitutional amendment to fix that situation. Then the question becomes, how do you motivate a bunch of legislators to cut off their main source of wealth?

[Tom Servo]

"Foreign outlets struggle to translate “shithole” for their readers. This Croatian paper used “vukojebina,” meaning “the place wolves like to fuck.” No joke."

(it appears that it's Croatian vernacular for "middle-of-nowhere", but literally translates to "where wolves fuck.")

[Tom Servo]

And Michael Cohen negotiated a $130,000 payout for a nondisclosure agreement with a former adult actress over an alleged incident in 2006 with dear leader.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-stephanie-clifford-payment_us_5a591ad1e4b0fcbc3a100202?utm_source=far k&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

EDIT: I should note that the payout happened in October of 2016, just prior to the election, it was the incident that happened in 2006.

[21Kid]

#familyvalues

[Crazed_Insanity]

The big problem, of course, is Citizens United. Now, that could all be changed if you passed new laws or even potentially a constitutional amendment to fix that situation. Then the question becomes, how do you motivate a bunch of legislators to cut off their main source of wealth?

By voting more Bernie Sanders types, not status quo nor somebody crazy like Trump.

[FaultyMario]

Must have been a hell of steam session. If you're paying 140k (plus legal fees) for sex, then... Well... I don't know how to finish the sentence.

[neanderthal]

Bernie Sanders can sit the fuck down. He can take all the seats, find an empty stadium and take all the damn seats.

Bernie Sanders who hasn't passed major legislation in decades in government is going to change funding in politics? He who's going through his own tax drama right now.

He who couldn't win the Democratic nomination and now wants to change the process to favor him.

No thanks.

He'll NEVER win the Democratic primary. We're done with him.

[Fogelhund]

Must have been a hell of steam session. If you're paying 140k (plus legal fees) for sex, then... Well... I don't know how to finish the sentence.

Of course that wasn't the cost of the sex... that was the cost, years after, so she didn't sell the story to some Gossip Rag.

[Yw-slayer]

Yes, 140k was the cost of silence.

[FaultyMario]

Then there's a factor of inflation of like 25% annual for the 11 year period between the sex and the silence.

Such a lousy businessman.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Bernie Sanders can sit the fuck down. He can take all the seats, find an empty stadium and take all the damn seats.

Bernie Sanders who hasn't passed major legislation in decades in government is going to change funding in politics? He who's going through his own tax drama right now.

He who couldn't win the Democratic nomination and now wants to change the process to favor him.

No thanks.

He'll NEVER win the Democratic primary. We're done with him.

Unless he's dead, I'm not done with him. Plus, I'm not only seeking him, but seeking his type. Status quo politicians will only end up getting our nation done.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Then there's a factor of inflation of like 25% annual for the 11 year period between the sex and the silence.

Such a lousy businessman.

By all accounts, he really is a lousy business man, but apparently he is a master of his brand.

How can anybody survive the pussy grabbing incident?

How can he remain unscathed by the sexual harassment charges?

How is this man winning and remaining in the White House?

He is either really good at whatever he's doing or just very very lucky? Could there be a 3rd option like some weird supreme mastermind behind all this? I honestly don't get it.

[neanderthal]

By all accounts, he really is a lousy business man, but apparently he is a master of his brand.

How can anybody survive the pussy grabbing incident?

How can he remain unscathed by the sexual harassment charges?

How is this man winning and remaining in the White House?

He is either really good at whatever he's doing or just very very lucky? Could there be a 3rd option like some weird supreme mastermind behind all this? I honestly don't get it.

Maybe he's "winning" because some whiny lil cuts voted 3rd party. I'm just saying...

His enablers aren't just the Republicans who refuse to censure him: it's everybody who enabled him in the first place.

[FaultyMario]

Mo and Billi, I think this answers the rhetorical questions you both pose:

https://cdn-ed.versobooks.com/images/000002/790/Verso_978_1_84467_324_7_Ruling_the_void_300_Site-6c16fc1a36f99a2f191ca0f19b6cb162.jpeg

[Crazed_Insanity]

Maybe he's "winning" because some whiny lil cuts voted 3rd party. I'm just saying...

His enablers aren't just the Republicans who refuse to censure him: it's everybody who enabled him in the first place.

I can admit to that possibility for winning the election, but my hatred for status quo politicians cannot explain how trump is able to remain so scandal proof thus far...

Mario, western democracy is indeed in need of reform, or they will probably soon collapse.

[neanderthal]

I can admit to that possibility for winning the election, but my hatred for status quo politicians cannot explain how trump is able to remain so scandal proof thus far...

Mario, western democracy is indeed in need of reform, or they will probably soon collapse.

You think non status quo politicians are beholden to anybody?

If it wasn't for the craven republicans trying to ram their agenda through and appoint lifetime judges, across the country, he might have been impeached long ago. Can't say there's a single honest one among these Republicans. Not they're going along with him the way they are.

We wouldn't have this mess if Hillary was President.

[Tom Servo]

Phrasing, people.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTYLjVnXkAATays.jpg

[Yw-slayer]

We wouldn't have this mess if Hillary was President.

In fairness - and I'm not trying to be flippant here - you'd have other messes and you'd still be mad.

[MR2 Fan]

:lol:

[balki]

In fairness - and I'm not trying to be flippant here - you'd have other messes and you'd still be mad.
Yeah, still think HRC (and Bernie) would have made the country worse than what they would have inherited (though not as bad as DJT).
There's still the possibility of re-election or a major military conflict, but I think 2020 onward will be better with this nonsense proceeding it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You think non status quo politicians are beholden to anybody?

If it wasn't for the craven republicans trying to ram their agenda through and appoint lifetime judges, across the country, he might have been impeached long ago. Can't say there's a single honest one among these Republicans. Not they're going along with him the way they are.

We wouldn't have this mess if Hillary was President.

I still believe if it weren't for James comeys last minute stunt, Hillary should have a much better shot at the WH..., so you think the Obama appointed republican director of FBI is to be blamed too?

[Tom Servo]

so you think the Obama appointed republican director of FBI is to be blamed too?

Given that you often claim your mastery or lack thereof of the English language is your issue - by just changing that very first letter from an 's' to a 'd' you would come across less as "putting words in people's mouths" and more as "I am asking for clarification."

I hope that helps. Honestly, I do.

[balki]

/mic drop by Top Swervo

[neanderthal]

In fairness - and I'm not trying to be flippant here - you'd have other messes and you'd still be mad.

I'd be mad, possibly, but the problems would not be this severe.
CHIP
Puerto Rico
The tax scam
People having to work to qualify for Medicaid. This one is fucking ridiculous. They're gonna make handicapped people and old people work to qualify for healthcare.

These are things that Hillary wouldn't have signed/ let slide.


These are things we can blame squarely on Drumpf and the GOP

[neanderthal]

I still believe if it weren't for James comeys last minute stunt, Hillary should have a much better shot at the WH..., so you think the Obama appointed republican director of FBI is to be blamed too?

I blame voters who put themselves over the country.

[neanderthal]

Given that you often claim your mastery or lack thereof of the English language is your issue - by just changing that very first letter from an 's' to a 'd' you would come across less as "putting words in people's mouths" and more as "I am asking for clarification."

I hope that helps. Honestly, I do.

His language deficiency is convenient for when he gets caught out. I'm onto his shtick.

[Yw-slayer]

I'd be mad, possibly, but the problems would not be this severe.
CHIP
Puerto Rico
The tax scam
People having to work to qualify for Medicaid. This one is fucking ridiculous. They're gonna make handicapped people and old people work to qualify for healthcare.
These are things that Hillary wouldn't have signed/ let slide.


These are things we can blame squarely on Drumpf and the GOP

You'd have other problems you'd blame on him and thew GOP. I can't find the article now, but it's an analysis of how the GOP and their buds would have continued screaming about things like:
- Emails
- Stolen election due to dead voters etc.
- Birth certificate
- Emails
- Bill's past behaviour
- Emails
- Stolen election due to whatever other excuse they can think of
- Emails
- Emails
- Emails

At least this way the Emperor's New Clothes have been well and truly exposed, even if 30% of the population doesn't seem to care.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Given that you often claim your mastery or lack thereof of the English language is your issue - by just changing that very first letter from an 's' to a 'd' you would come across less as "putting words in people's mouths" and more as "I am asking for clarification."

I hope that helps. Honestly, I do.

That does help. Thanks!

I honestly didn't think that could be an issue and could potentially inadvertently turn somebody off.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I blame voters who put themselves over the country.
So... Do you also agree that western democracy needs some sort of reform?

I also honestly voted for the good of my country. I still believe Hillarys no good for all of our future. She is not the type who'd put her country before herself.

Of course trump is worse... so I voted for who I believe is the best person for the job.

[Crazed_Insanity]

At least this way the Emperor's New Clothes have been well and truly exposed, even if 30% of the population doesn't seem to care.

Yes.

GOP is fully in charge with nobody to blame.

Angry voters will finally put Trump and GOP to their proper place should they failed to make America great again.

I hope...

[speedpimp]

YW, you forgot about the emails.

[drew]

and Benghazi and Uranium One.


...and the emails.

[Yw-slayer]

Emails.

[Dicknose]

In fairness - and I'm not trying to be flippant here - you'd have other messes and you'd still be mad.
Yes.
And I think even Bernie would have some mess.
No really good answers, but definitely some bad ones!

[Dicknose]

So... Do you also agree that western democracy needs some sort of reform?

I also honestly voted for the good of my country. I still believe Hillarys no good for all of our future. She is not the type who'd put her country before herself.

Democracy is a good concept, but it doesn’t always work.
People will often vote for what is best for themselves rather than the more selfless what is best for the group.
Even then they will often vote for what they personally want for themselves even if the alternative doesn’t cost them much (thinking poll on gay marriage in Oz)
It’s not perfect, but it’s the best we have.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You can't expect people to be selfless. You also shouldn't blame them for being selfish. If you cannot accept these 2 conditions, the democracy is probably not for you? Anyway, these are not the reasons why I want it reformed.

I'm mostly concerned by the people being brainwashed into just 2 extreme ideologies and end up wanting to destroy each other rather than working together. As for the rest who couldn't care less about the 2 competing ideologies just quit participating the democratic process.

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."MLKJr

American people's hatred/indifference for each other will doom us soon if we don't change our ways.

[21Kid]

I'd still take Bernie. He seems to be the only one working for the people, instead of being beholden to outside donors.

[21Kid]

Every time I hear people talking about the parties being the same I think of this, and how it seems more relevant with each passing day.

2818

Yup. They both have marks against them. :rolleyes:

[dodint]

I love when my stats come with emoji's.

[21Kid]

Legit!!!

[Crazed_Insanity]

My kinda stat! :D

Anyway, for sure we all know which party is more politically correct and less evil. Don't need any stats to prove that both parties are definitely not the same.

The main problem is that both parties are only focused on beating the other side rather than working together to solve real problem.

Take poverty for example. Stats clearly show the red deplorable retard conservative states with the highest poverty rates.

However, if factoring in cost of living for each state, the mighty California is actually the state with the highest poverty rate!
http://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/jan/20/chad-mayes/true-california-has-nations-highest-poverty-rate-w/

Imagine if we as a nation is entirely blue just like California... with only minority deplorables and with Hillary in office and with the best democrats controlling the best congress ever! The gap between rich and the poor would still be staggering and continue out of control.

Unless CA democrats are just doing something wrong? My guess is that liberal ideology, even without conservatives in the way, just isn't the solution for our state/nation?

Of course, I'm not suggesting conservative ideology will save us either.

Point is that both parties are the "same" at missing the mark at directing this nation toward a better future.

We've gotta learn to work together... and pick the best out of each ideologies and formulate real solutions to real problems rather than just focusing on winning the next election.

[neanderthal]

Every time I hear people talking about the parties being the same I think of this, and how it seems more relevant with each passing day.

2818

Yup. They both have marks against them. :rolleyes:


And all so the legislation they enacted.

The last major legislation enacted was Healthcare. It's not perfect. GOP railed against it from day 1, promised to repeal and replace, and one year in they havent.

Nor have they put forward the better "market based solution" they bandied about. But yeah, both parties are the same.

Trump, right now is being enabled by the GOP we refuse to censure never mind impeach him, and they call his vile and racist comments "unfirtunate," ... but yeah, both parties are the same.

[Crazed_Insanity]

May I ask exactly who is making the claim that the 2 parties are the same?

[George]

Fresh graffiti in Denver (not my pic, found on r/denver):

https://i.imgur.com/F1XSC3s.jpg

[Jason]

In DC someone was projecting "SHITHOLE" on the Trump hotel here :up:

[novicius]

:lol: :up:

[Tom Servo]

Steve Bannon's been subpoenaed by Mueller and it sounds like will have to testify before a grand jury.

[novicius]

Noice! :up:

[neanderthal]

May I ask exactly who is making the claim that the 2 parties are the same?

:lol:


That's rich. Considering YOU were one of the people saying there was no difference between the parties and you were glad to see an outsider get the nomination in the Republican primary.

YOU were one of the people saying both parties are corrupt and there is no salvation for either unless an outsider comes in and disrupts the process. Fat load of good that's done us now, innit?

But, yeah, keep playing. We see you.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You don't think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying some what? You really believe that I couldn't tell democrats and republicans apart?

To play the blame game, I can do that too, you stupid Hillary supporters. Fat good that's done us now. Should've voted for Sanders during the primary biatches!

Both parties are corrupted by the rich that's for sure. You could say there were less democrats caught, but to pretend democrats are immune to money is being too naive. Hillary is presumed innocent in this regard but she lost my vote precisely because I get the feeling that she cares more for Wall Street and Silicon Valley than the rest of America.

[21Kid]

:lol:


That's rich. Considering YOU were one of the people saying there was no difference between the parties and you were glad to see an outsider get the nomination in the Republican primary.

YOU were one of the people saying both parties are corrupt and there is no salvation for either unless an outsider comes in and disrupts the process. Fat load of good that's done us now, innit?

But, yeah, keep playing. We see you. That's exactly why I ignore him.

Well, one of many reasons.

[Jason]

Mo is the only reason I see his posts, I might put Mo on ignore so I can actually ignore Billi's posts. :P

[novicius]

Relevant probably only to Kid & me: Matt Flynn is in for Democratic primary race for governor (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/investigations/daniel-bice/2017/10/07/bice-matt-flynn-democratic-primary-race-governor/741401001/)

:lol:

[neanderthal]

Mo is the only reason I see his posts, I might put Mo on ignore so I can actually ignore Billi's posts. :P

Apologies. I'll try to add a spoiler tag

It's be easier to just ignore him. But apparently i'm dumb and a sucker for punishment.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah...I find that he's like this little dose of adrenaline or something. If I ignore him too long, then I feel like I need to see what he's said and then spend a day or two just losing my shit, then I'm okay for a few weeks.

I should probably see someone about that.

[neanderthal]

You don't think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying some what? You really believe that I couldn't tell democrats and republicans apart?

To play the blame game, I can do that too, you stupid Hillary supporters. Fat good that's done us now. Should've voted for Sanders during the primary biatches!

Both parties are corrupted by the rich that's for sure. You could say there were less democrats caught, but to pretend democrats are immune to money is being too naive. Hillary is presumed innocent in this regard but she lost my vote precisely because I get the feeling that she cares more for Wall Street and Silicon Valley than the rest of America.


Well, for sure he has caused a disruption to the current political establishment. He has demonstrated that he's willing to declare war against the RNC. He has also destroyed the DNC thru general election. I'm sure the 'establishment' will eventually re-establish contact again..., but at least for now, Trump has established "himself" onto the US political scene.

Anyway, back to my discussion with Swervo..., I'm not really a conservative, and I haven't really heard anything in detail regarding why they supported Trump. All I know is that our "establishment" is what's scaring me the most and I don't want status quo. I also don't want a opportunistic Trump either, and his inappropriate remarks made him un-electable for me.

I really think Wells Fargo is the perfect representation of this current establishment. Pro-minority, women, gay rights and cool and sparkling on the outside, but who knows what they're doing to screw over the commoners... whether it's lower level employees or customers.

This elitist group has ignored the interests of middle class America. It has also outright disregard the lives of non-Americans abroad thru military show of force or out-right wars. A lot of you might think that I'm a conspiracy theorist for saying this, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it is our 'establishment' who created the terrorists and our current political polarization. When the commoners are afraid or fighting amongst themselves, they not only won't care what you do, but will also actually look upon you for help and give you more powers.

I say this because I honestly see little or no difference between W and O when it comes to dealing with the bankers(elite), war strategies, transparency of our government... Seriously Obama, what are you trying to hide from us? What is so top secret?

Anyway, it's obvious that Donald Trump shouldn't be the answer to my concerns. We really needed somebody like Bernie Sanders... somebody who's not only anti-establishment, but also with integrity.

If it were an election between Trump and Sanders and Sanders lost, I think I will definitely also join the protesters and protest my hardest against 'racism'. I think I just might lose faith in the American people in general...

But as it is, it's really hard for me to pick which side is less evil... and it really hurts to see American people hate each other so much all because they were manipulated by the establishment and Trump. Sigh...

Source. (http://gtxforums.net/showthread.php?1645-Politics-II-(was-State-of-our-Gran-Turismo)&p=87926&viewfull=1#post87926)

I'm certainly not one of the smartest people in the room, in any room, on this board, in this thread, but you know what billi, i remember shit.

Like the bolded parts in this post where you said you can't pick which is more evil between the two parties. Where you said President Obama and Bush were basically the same.

As evidenced by this post



Quote Originally Posted by neanderthal View Post



That's rich. Considering YOU were one of the people saying there was no difference between the parties and you were glad to see an outsider get the nomination in the Republican primary.

YOU were one of the people saying both parties are corrupt and there is no salvation for either unless an outsider comes in and disrupts the process. Fat load of good that's done us now, innit?

But, yeah, keep playing. We see you.
That's exactly why I ignore him.

Well, one of many reasons.

i'm not the only one who has witnessed your tomfoolery.

if you can't parse the differences between Presidents Obama and Bush then you really are not qualified to talk about politics. Especially if you can't consider that one of them had the (until then) worst. congress. ever. and the other did not.

And, i'm not going to buy any attempt to discredit this post (there are others) as merely a difficulty in expressing yourself in English.

[neanderthal]

Sorry for keeping on quoting him. i'll try to remember to just ignore him.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dude, do you seriously believe I cannot tell Obama and W apart?

Just to point out couple of major disappointments I had for Obama was that he kept the surveillance program going and he broke Ws record for withholding freedom of information act.

These are thing I expect from the dumbass W, but appalled that Obama kept it up.

After all my hope dashed, why should I believe Hillary will do better than Obama?

As you said, worst congress ever is still there!

Might as well let the conservatives have full control so that hopefully soon the voters will realize it's time for a real change!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah...I find that he's like this little dose of adrenaline or something. If I ignore him too long, then I feel like I need to see what he's said and then spend a day or two just losing my shit, then I'm okay for a few weeks.

I should probably see someone about that.

You know you love me. I kinda like you too.

Oh I hope you won't read this one cause I might mess your shit up for good this time! ;)

[Fogelhund]

Sorry for keeping on quoting him. i'll try to remember to just ignore him.

Ignore function... it works.

[Tom Servo]

Oh Billi, you'll never mess my shit up for good, but I know you'll always be there to mess up my shit.

In other news, Fox News has gone "we're fine with being racist as fuck."

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/954163554181140480

(quoted just in case they delete this because what in the fucking fuck is this shit)


.@MarkSteynOnline on DACA: "In Arizona, a majority of the grade school children now are Hispanic. That means Arizona's future is as a Hispanic society. That means in effect, the border has moved north." #Tucker

EDIT: Okay, I clearly didn't swear enough because holy fuck, they've gone fully fucking white ethnostate. https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/954160068848685056

[neanderthal]

Dude, do you seriously believe I cannot tell Obama and W apart?

Just to point out couple of major disappointments I had for Obama was that he kept the surveillance program going and he broke Ws record for withholding freedom of information act.

These are thing I expect from the dumbass W, but appalled that Obama kept it up.

After all my hope dashed, why should I believe Hillary will do better than Obama?

As you said, worst congress ever is still there!

Might as well let the conservatives have full control so that hopefully soon the voters will realize it's time for a real change!

Yeah, I actually do. You're the one who said there's no difference between them. And you've picked two things they did similarly to reinforce your point rather that looking at the magnitude of difference between their Presidencies, evaluating, considering and coming up with an actual reasoned political divide between them. No. That would require work. A change of dogma. An assault upon your already pre conceived notions. it's much easier to just lump Obama in with Bush and decry the establishment. because then you can completely rage against the machine, nevermind those it hurts.

And of course you want the republicans to control everything to "fuck everything up." You don't care about the people their regime will hurt. You don't care about blacks, browns, immigrants, LGBQT, women, veterans, the poor, law and order, the economy, BLM, justice, climate, Native rights, opportunity for all. You don't give a shit about anybody but yourself like a typical alt left Bernie bot. And if you can't have it your way then fuck it, burn it all down.

Thanks for confirming what we all already thought about your politics; narcissistic and selfish. You know who else is narcissistic and selfish; Trump.

[neanderthal]

Oh Billi, you'll never mess my shit up for good, but I know you'll always be there to mess up my shit.

In other news, Fox News has gone "we're fine with being racist as fuck."

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/954163554181140480

(quoted just in case they delete this because what in the fucking fuck is this shit)



EDIT: Okay, I clearly didn't swear enough because holy fuck, they've gone fully fucking white ethnostate. https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/954160068848685056

Nevermind that Arizona was a part of Mexico until the ~1850s.

[Tom Servo]

Nevermind that Arizona was a part of Mexico until the ~1850s.

Yeah, last thing we want is for cities like "Mesa" to be infiltrated with Hispanics.

[novicius]

Do you hear that Mr. Carlson? That is the sound of inevitability... :lol:

[dodint]

I might be in for a vacation next week.

Historically with a government shutdown the employees end up getting paid anyway. Not paying out my GI Bill on time is what will bone me personally.

[Jason]

No clue what my situation will be. Last time I was "essential", no word this time.

[dodint]

I've always been essential as well, but when I promoted I moved from what was basically in operations position to a policy compliance position so I might not be anymore.

I kind of hope I'm not, have so much homework to do.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I actually do. You're the one who said there's no difference between them. And you've picked two things they did similarly to reinforce your point rather that looking at the magnitude of difference between their Presidencies, evaluating, considering and coming up with an actual reasoned political divide between them. No. That would require work. A change of dogma. An assault upon your already pre conceived notions. it's much easier to just lump Obama in with Bush and decry the establishment. because then you can completely rage against the machine, nevermind those it hurts.

And of course you want the republicans to control everything to "fuck everything up." You don't care about the people their regime will hurt. You don't care about blacks, browns, immigrants, LGBQT, women, veterans, the poor, law and order, the economy, BLM, justice, climate, Native rights, opportunity for all. You don't give a shit about anybody but yourself like a typical alt left Bernie bot. And if you can't have it your way then fuck it, burn it all down.

Thanks for confirming what we all already thought about your politics; narcissistic and selfish. You know who else is narcissistic and selfish; Trump.

Okay, let's put aside the same bad parts between the 2 parties for now... and try to focus on the parts that made them different.

Can a democratic president really accomplish much with the worst congress ever? ACA was probably Obama's greatest accomplishment but thanks to the opposition, still not working very well.

When problems are not addressed and solved, each side can conveniently blame the other side and then just leave it at that. Unsolved. Kick the bucket down the road...

Now the government is all on the same stupid side. When the shit hits the fan, as long as it isn't thermal nuclear war, voters will finally come to their sense and quit supporting the Republican Party. I hope.

Since the DNC is just too weak to win on their own merit, this is the 2nd best way for DNC to gain control... just by giving RNC full control.

They don't have Obama and Hillary to blame anymore. Constitution should also be able to afford us some protection...

Finally, you still believe voting for a 3rd party candidate is the same as burning down the country?

Then how would you describe the act of voters who actually voted for Trump?

People are inherently selfish. Blaming people for being selfish won't really do anybody any good.

[George]

I said it then, and I'll say it again now.

Why does the government have non-essential workers to begin with? This is one of the few traditionally right-wing positions I haven't changed my mind about in the last decade or so.

You don't see non-essential workers that very often in the private sector. Sure, there are some here and there who've managed to weasel there way into mystery jobs where nobody really knows what they do but they keep getting a paycheck anyway. There was a Seinfeld episode in which George Costanza gets away with sitting in an empty office with the door closed all day long for a time. And there was one in which he built a sleeping platform under his desk. But that's rare in the real world, I believe.

Hell, most people I know who work for for-profit companies (myself included) are reluctant to take time off because there aren't extra bodies anymore to cover for someone who is absent. Coming back to 1000 emails, 100 voice mails, and a bunch of angry internal/external customers who have been ignored in one's absence isn't appealing.

Or maybe that's just office workers. Sure, there might be time to surf the web between tasks, but we've got to be here every day to put out fires or suffer later.

A former coworker and I used to cry in our coffee about this to each other. He had a friend who was a union bus mechanic and he'd say, "My friend can take a vacation and not come back to fifty buses waiting for him."

At that job (and my current one isn't much different), if we were gone for two or three days, we come back to a huge mess, and the kind of stuff that people remember - he's not reliable, doesn't get the job done, upper management copied on third and fourth request emails, etc.

He and I still stay in touch and eat lunch together about once a month. He works for the state of Colorado now. :lol:

This is in no way a crack at gub'm'nt employees, at least not around here. Times have changed, I think. I truly enjoy going to the DMV nowadays. It's fast and easy and the employees are nice as can be. Same when I talk to folks in tax departments in multiple states as part of my job. Nice folks.

Back in North Carolina in the last century, I'd take a half-day off work if I had to go the DMV, and while there I'd stand in a hot, sweaty line while surly employees with phones visibly off the hook on their desks moved as slowly as possible without seeming to give a damn about the angry mob crushed up against the counters in front of them. I don't know if that's a function of a different time and technology or a different location. A little of both, I'd guess.

Now it's the private sector that is consistently hell to deal with. Try calling AT&T or a big bank or any large corporation and get someone on the phone who can and will help you or return a phone call. And retail these days? I won't even get started. Everyone is being worked harder than rented mules.

Whew. That was a long tangent. Sorry.

Still, I say non-essential government employees shouldn't be.

[George]

Hmm.

I just re-read my post above and will now reply to myself.

So, you're saying that government employees are pleasant to deal with because there are non-essential employees and private sector employees are miserable because there aren't enough non-essentials to help out?

Um, well, maybe I am, if you look at it that way.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't quite know fully what 'essential' means, but I'd suspect that means super critical... if gone, it might cause a government shutdown?!?!? ;)

Like your brain or heart are essential, but your ears and your toes might be non-essential. During an emergency, blood flow will be diverted only to the essential organs. However, we probably don't want this emergency to last too long and end up causing us to lose our limbs permanently?

We can probably trim the 'fat' in our government. Not sure if we want to cut off all of our non-essential workers 1st.

Anyway, back to the shutdown... unless it eventually hinges on getting the final vote of 60 senators, we should be able to blame this shutdown entirely on the republicans..., including president Trump.

[IMOA]

Well run companies ensure they have staffing levels which ensure people can take vacations. It’s really not that hard, you look at how much work you’ve got coming up in the next year, factor in holidays and make sure you have the staffing. If you can’t take holidays for fear of an enormous mess it means that either you or the company (or both) is disfunctional. If its not you I’d suggest you need to work somewhere else because millions of companies around the world handle holidays just fine.

[JSGeneral]

Hmm.

I just re-read my post above and will now reply to myself.

So, you're saying that government employees are pleasant to deal with because there are non-essential employees and private sector employees are miserable because there aren't enough non-essentials to help out?

Um, well, maybe I am, if you look at it that way.


That was some deep, introspective stuff. I also liked your rebuttal to yourself. All valid points. :up:

George for President... and his running mate George!
"Hindsight is 2020"

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

[21Kid]

Hell, most people I know who work for for-profit companies (myself included) are reluctant to take time off because there aren't extra bodies anymore to cover for someone who is absent. Coming back to 1000 emails, 100 voice mails, and a bunch of angry internal/external customers who have been ignored in one's absence isn't appealing.

Or maybe that's just office workers. Sure, there might be time to surf the web between tasks, but we've got to be here every day to put out fires or suffer later.

A former coworker and I used to cry in our coffee about this to each other. He had a friend who was a union bus mechanic and he'd say, "My friend can take a vacation and not come back to fifty buses waiting for him."

At that job (and my current one isn't much different), if we were gone for two or three days, we come back to a huge mess, and the kind of stuff that people remember - he's not reliable, doesn't get the job done, upper management copied on third and fourth request emails, etc.
:erm: Customers aren't routed to someone else who is not on vacation? That seems like very poor customer service.

When I took vacation, I always made sure my out of office message was on.
My employees knew how long I would be gone, and who was covering for me.
And I sent most customers/clients/vendors personal emails letting them know in advance that I would be out, and whom to contact in my absence, if needed.

If that's not being done, I can see why management would be upset. But, there shouldn't be any guilt associated with taking your allowable vacation time.

[dodint]

I think your definition of essential is probably not the same as being used in the context of retention during a government shut down.

When I was a federal fire department dispatcher, I was essential because I worked for emergency services.
When I did patch management (Windows updates, etc) for the Army Reserve post, I was essential because if the patches were not applied hackers would be able to access government computers.
Now I do compliance work, I'm basically making sure that the patch management people are actually doing their jobs. They can afford to lose me for a week or two as I'll check up on those essential guys when I get back.

I'm not saying there are government offices that don't have some bloat sitting around. I can say that the enterprise team I work for is perpetually understaffed and that you're getting your money's worth out of me and my team mates. Maybe one day I'll find one of those coveted bloated do nothing jobs. ;)

Essential is the bare minimum the federal workforce can survive on for a short period of time. What you're saying is basically "Why do football teams need 53 players? They're doing just fine with the 22 that start the game."

[George]

Well, not to make this all about me, but at the last three jobs I've had, from 2005 to the present in the private sector, we ran with the proverbial 22 starters indefinitely, or fewer that that as time went on.

Fewer?

Yeah.

Example: 2012 I was one of 17 people in a department - 16 employees and 1 manager. By 2015 or thereabouts, we were down to 4 employees and a newer and certainly lower-paid manager than before. If any of the four of us took time off, the other three would honestly offer and intend to cover for them, but the reality was there wasn't time. Everyone already had more than he or she could do on any given day. Fortunately, our "customers" weren't actual paying customers but internal customers in other departments and vendors who supplied products and services.

Today, that one manager manages a whole raft of people in India who do what the four of us who survived the longest at that sweatshop used to do. I left there with four and a half weeks (the maximum one could have) of vacation time saved up (of which the government took 36% in taxes, by the way). Unused vacation time is taxed at a higher rate than regular wages.

At the job before that, I left with three weeks vacation (the max at that company) which the government also took what seemed like most of.

At my current job, I'm sitting on two weeks of vacation time saved up since starting here in April of 2016. The only time I've taken off was to go east for my mother-in-law's funeral and again for my parents' 50th wedding anniversary. I manage a small department here. If things go wrong when I'm not here, it's on me. It's my name and my reputation and my future raises and bonuses and good references, or the lack thereof. I don't take that lightly with two kids to put through college in (thankfully) several years.

Can't my boss help? I never see her. Well, I see her at the water cooler and so forth, but otherwise she's in her office all day, slammed with a million emails and phone calls and "do this now" requests from people inside and outside of the company. Her boss? Yep, the same.

That's just how things are in the private sector in America, at least from my viewpoint. And what about all those news reports that talk about how little time Americans get to take off work (but also how productive American workers are)? Surely I'm not the only one reading those. Surely some of you at this very forum have jobs similar to mine. I know we're all a bunch of web-surfing slackers here, but don't most of us to do it from work, because we need to be at work? I'd much rather be out somewhere having fun while some other schmo hard-heartedly does some of my work, but it ain't gonna happen at any job I've had in the last several years.

This is why I, as a (mostly) hard-working taxpayer, get frustrated when I hear about "non-essential" government workers. At least in theory. I'm not mad. I'm just talking here. It's fun to do late on a Friday afternoon while still at the office after a good, honest week of work (even if I did spend some time here at this forum).

I raise my frosty tankard of cold beer...uh, I mean my well-worn coffee mug...to anyone who works and earns a paycheck and pays taxes.

[neanderthal]

Okay, let's put aside the same bad parts between the 2 parties for now... and try to focus on the parts that made them different.

Can a democratic president really accomplish much with the worst congress ever? ACA was probably Obama's greatest accomplishment but thanks to the opposition, still not working very well.

When problems are not addressed and solved, each side can conveniently blame the other side and then just leave it at that. Unsolved. Kick the bucket down the road...

Now the government is all on the same stupid side. When the shit hits the fan, as long as it isn't thermal nuclear war, voters will finally come to their sense and quit supporting the Republican Party. I hope.

Since the DNC is just too weak to win on their own merit, this is the 2nd best way for DNC to gain control... just by giving RNC full control.

They don't have Obama and Hillary to blame anymore. Constitution should also be able to afford us some protection...

Finally, you still believe voting for a 3rd party candidate is the same as burning down the country?

Then how would you describe the act of voters who actually voted for Trump?

People are inherently selfish. Blaming people for being selfish won't really do anybody any good.

Fat load of fucking good voting for Trump/ Stein/ Bernie did for us all, innit?

[Crazed_Insanity]

She won't be able to do too much good even if elected. Not on a personal level nor will the worst congress ever allow her.

As it is now, maybe the power will shift next term.

Had Bernie won the primary, things might be different. I say again, letting her win the primary, what good did that do?

Let's just disagree and leave it at that. Democracy tend to end up with voters who'd vote for different things.

[neanderthal]

She won't be able to do too much good even if elected. Not on a personal level nor will the worst congress ever allow her.

As it is now, maybe the power will shift next term.

Had Bernie won the primary, things might be different. I say again, letting her win the primary, what good did that do?

She won the primary. Thrashed Sanders in it, and won the popular vote. Thrashed Trump in that too.

And you think more people would have voted for Sanders? When he couldn't even win the nomination? There's delusions, and then there's that.