Politics

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dicktators can be whatever they want, but in the end still dicks.

[Godson]

I can't even drink right now.

Fucking bullshit.

[Jason]

Facebook reminded me that four years ago today, Russia shot down MH17, killing 300 civilians. 80 of which were children. And many of the total were from (now former?) allies.

[Tom Servo]

Well, at least somebody's happy with the Putin/Trump conference



Bravo Trump! Bravo Russia! Bravo to all the true American Patriots who put America first and Peace and Justice first before the Zionist Deep Evil State ruling American Media and Politics. Russia has values America once had and America the values that Communist Russia had!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Honestly cannot figure out what David Duke is trying to say. Guess he's anti-Israel? But russia isn't THAT against Israel, are they? Didn't Putin back Israel saying that if Iran attack, Russia will actually join with US to protect Israel?

Anyway, I guess I shouldn't care so much what David Duke was trying to say...

[21Kid]

October 19 2016

CLINTON: Well, that’s because he’d rather have a puppet as president of the United States.
TRUMP: No puppet. No puppet.
CLINTON: And it’s pretty clear...
TRUMP: You’re the puppet!
CLINTON: It’s pretty clear you won’t admit...
TRUMP: No, you’re the puppet.
CLINTON: ... that the Russians have engaged in cyberattacks against the United States of America, that you encouraged espionage against our people, that you are willing to spout the Putin line, sign up for his wish list, break up NATO, do whatever he wants to do, and that you continue to get help from him, because he has a very clear favorite in this race.
So I think that this is such an unprecedented situation. We’ve never had a foreign government trying to interfere in our election. We have 17 — 17 intelligence agencies, civilian and military, who have all concluded that these espionage attacks, these cyberattacks, come from the highest levels of the Kremlin and they are designed to influence our election. I find that deeply disturbing.
WALLACE: Secretary Clinton...
CLINTON: And I think it’s time you take a stand...
TRUMP: She has no idea whether it’s Russia, China, or anybody else.
CLINTON: I am not quoting myself.
TRUMP: She has no idea.
CLINTON: I am quoting 17...
TRUMP: Hillary, you have no idea.
CLINTON: ... 17 intelligence — do you doubt 17 military and civilian...
TRUMP: And our country has no idea.
CLINTON: ... agencies.
TRUMP: Yeah, I doubt it. I doubt it.
CLINTON: Well, he’d rather believe Vladimir Putin than the military and civilian intelligence professionals who are sworn to protect us. I find that just absolutely...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: She doesn’t like Putin because Putin has outsmarted her at every step of the way.

From Washington Post Transcripts.

[21Kid]

https://www.facebook.com/ProudSnowflakes/photos/a.436905570038985.1073741828.436883633374512/597016310694576/?type=3

3092

[MR2 Fan]

Trump's furious backpedaling of the statement he made yesterday is probably the most exercise he's had for decades

[Crazed_Insanity]

Com'on, give him a break. With little hands and little dick, it's very easy to miss-poke the wrong holes... he probably couldn't even grab onto little pussy cats even if he tries!

[Tom Servo]

Now he looks the one way he desperately never wants to come across: Weak. Seriously, hardcore weak. Putin walked all over him, and now he's gotta backtrack what he said because everyone else walked all over him.

Weak.

[MR2 Fan]

it's ok, once he gets a few more Twitter rants going, undoing what he just said, he'll feel better

[Tom Servo]

Course, then he backpedaled the backpedal: "I accept our intelligence community's conclusion that Russia's meddling in the 2016 election took place. Could be other people also. A lot of people out there."

[IMOA]

Facebook reminded me that four years ago today, Russia shot down MH17, killing 300 civilians. 80 of which were children. And many of the total were from (now former?) allies.

38 Australian citizens and residents. The fact that the US spent the week attacking it's allies and siding with the people who shot down the civilian aircraft containing all those Australians isn't something which is noticed in passing, it is at the core of the story.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This is weird. I don't understand why he can't at least pretend to be tougher with Putin. The whole world is already suspicious, the very least they can do is pretend to be hostile to each other?

Putin must really have something on Trump and wish to let the whole world know he's got Trump on a leash...

Is there really a need for further investigations?

Anyway, on the bright side, if we judge/rank US presidents by # or size of bogus wars started, Trump isn't so bad... yet. Cozy with world dictators..., he wouldn't start wars with our allies, would he? Sigh, fingers crossed.

[Tom Servo]

There was an article on GQ that theorized that they don't really have the kompromat we all think on Trump - we've already been shown it. Trump's whole worldview lies on the idea that his victory was legitimate, that he easily crushed Hillary, and the idea that Russia had something to do with it is something he has to fight tooth and nail against. He can't truly admit that they meddled in the election without raising the possibility that his victory wasn't real. We already know he basically has no shame over sex, but he has constant shame over the idea that he didn't win a dominant victory (despite the fact that even based on the electoral college, it was one of the closer ones).

Also, not truly political, but was an interesting article and at least tangentially related (warning: long): https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/josephbernstein/lane-davis-ralph-retort-seattle4truth-alt-right

[SportWagon]

Um, (as you indicate) by no stretch of the imagination did he crush Hillary. I searched the web for UK protest signs, but didn't actually see any saying "Didn't actually win the popular vote".

Okay, even allowing for some irregularities happening in only Hillary's favour, he still would have had a very narrow margin of victory and should realize he had, and probably still has, a large proportion of opposition.

I mean, in television coverage of the election, Trump appeared totally surprised that he had actually won, presumably because it was counter to the predicted results before the election.

I noticed something strange about the CNN soundbites (on the Daily Show) that I saw of the intelligence recantation. Usually Trump is depicted by the media with a hostile sneer on his face. I always wonder if the media try hard to select only such images. But in that interview he almost looked like a friendly, reasonable human being.

Perhaps when he looks like that he should be trusted even less.

[mk]

Clearly has three behaviour sets.

One for face to face and two for indirects, one for supporters and one for opponents.
All are clearly true but can't say what is real, if any.

[MR2 Fan]

he still never laughs....that should scare everyone

[Tom Servo]

Um, (as you indicate) by no stretch of the imagination did he crush Hillary.

Absolutely. As far as I know, Trump is the only one talking about was a massive landslide it was. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/02/16/trump-falsely-claims-biggest-electoral-win-since-reagan/98002648/



I noticed something strange about the CNN soundbites (on the Daily Show) that I saw of the intelligence recantation. Usually Trump is depicted by the media with a hostile sneer on his face. I always wonder if the media try hard to select only such images. But in that interview he almost looked like a friendly, reasonable human being.


This isn't something I've noticed, and not to say that media bias isn't there, but I've noticed the "sneer" appears to be his "I'm being very serious and presidential" face.

[Tom Servo]

Post the closed door meeting, then press conference, with Putin, which was just after the "bash NATO a little" conference, Trump got asked about Montenegro by Tucker Carlson. Montenegro has recently joined NATO, and the two of them expressed incredulity that NATO members should be expected to defend this tiny nation against Russian aggression, especially since it could start World War III. Seemed odd that suddenly those two are talking about Montenegro, but whatevs.

Turns out back in 2008, when McCain was running for President, he started advocating for Montenegro's independence from Serbia. This was in Russia's best interests as it would allow them to establish a port in the Mediterranean, something they didn't currently have. When this was all happening, Rick Davis and Paul Manafort were two of McCain's advisors.

Weird, that.

[neanderthal]

Cue all the Trump apologists who were saying "Trump is right" yesterday saying "Trump is right" today while he's furiously backtracking on what he said yesterday.

[MR2 Fan]

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aN1Gd96_460s.jpg

[drew]

Trump is infallible! White is black, next day black is white, and equally hated.


Fuck him, and his "supporters"

[G'day Mate]

Media always choose pictures with expressions that suit their bias.

[Tom Servo]

Well, now there's at least one tape.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/20/us/politics/michael-cohen-trump-tape.html

[Tom Servo]

And Manafort's text messages have been leaked (after Wikileaks didn't)

https://twitter.com/NatSecGeek/status/1020325657891368960

[MR2 Fan]

cool, I'll wait for the cliffs notes version

[Freude am Fahren]

And none of it will matter to half the country, and nothing will change.

[drew]

Exactly...

[Tom Servo]

State Department pulls down a statement condemning Russia's involvement in the shooting down of MH17 over Ukraine. It has issued a statement every year and posted it on the US Embassy in Moscow's website since the downing of the flight, and issued one this year until it was promptly pulled down after Trump and Putin's meeting in Helsinki.

http://www.businessinsider.com/state-department-deletes-statement-criticizing-russia-over-mh17-attack-trump-putin-2018-7/

The statement can be seen on the Wayback Machine's archive of the site: https://web.archive.org/web/20180717222427/https://ru.usembassy.gov/

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just saw this on FB:

Remember when you vote in November...

(D) for democrats
(R) for Russians

[MR2 Fan]

yep and RNC now stands for Russian National Committee

[G'day Mate]

Insanely, Trump's approval rating was not affected last week. In fact I'm reading reports that it rose slightly.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That's how lesser of 2 evils work. Liberals are evil. Any conservative, even an orange Russian conservative is better that any democrat! All the Russian story is just fake news distraction...

Of course this works in reverse too!

America is going to fall soon if people cannot learn to be true patriots of putting nation 1st rather than party 1st.

It's probably up to the republicans to do their own investigations to see whether or not Trump is compromised Russia agent or not...

[MR2 Fan]

Infowars (Alex Jones's batshit insane channel) has been finally removed from Youtube for violations of TOS

EDIT: it's temporary ban for now

[Tom Servo]

Well, he didn't violate copyright, so how bad can threatening to shoot Robert Meuller really be?

[Jason]

Insanely, Trump's approval rating was not affected last week. In fact I'm reading reports that it rose slightly.

It’s effectively bottomed out last December, it’s going to take him doing something that goes against the most right wing of the GOP base for him to go further down. He’s historically unpopular among Democrats. Oddly enough, at this point in their respective presidencies, Obama and Trump are about even in approval. Yup, that’s right... With no real scandals to think of, Obama was unpopular than daily scandal Trump. That’s how messsed up our population is.

[Leon]

Insanely, Trump's approval rating was not affected last week. In fact I'm reading reports that it rose slightly.

Key word was the first word you used there :)

[Tom Servo]

Someone smashed up Trump's star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame (again). A couple of guys are posing as Russian guards guarding the spot now.

https://i.imgur.com/xeAeCjd.jpg

That's some commitment to the bit, btw, we're having record high temperatures out here.

[G'day Mate]

:lol:

[drew]

That may be the picture of the month. :lol:

[21Kid]

It’s effectively bottomed out last December, it’s going to take him doing something that goes against the most right wing of the GOP base for him to go further down. He’s historically unpopular among Democrats. Oddly enough, at this point in their respective presidencies, Obama and Trump are about even in approval. Yup, that’s right... With no real scandals to think of, Obama was unpopular than daily scandal Trump. That’s how messsed up our population is.

That's messed up

[Tom Servo]

Outside of funny pictures, the Washington Post are reporting that a federal judge has let an emoluments case against Trump go forward:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/federal-judge-allows-emoluments-case-against-trump-to-proceed/2018/07/25/c8070206-8fa4-11e8-8322-b5482bf5e0f5_story.html?utm_term=.8917cd202869

Trump Org. CFO Allen Weisselberg is being called to testify before a grand jury now that his name appears to have come up in the leaked tape from Cohen discussing payments to McDougal, and now CNN are reporting that Cohen alleges that "he was present, along with several others, when Trump was informed of the Russian's offer by Trump Jr. By Cohen's account, Trump approved going ahead with the meeting with the Russians, according to sources."

So, there's that.

[G'day Mate]

How's the base reacting to that? Deep State?

[drew]

Same as always. Fake news.

[Tom Servo]

How's the base reacting to that? Deep State?

Well, Tucker Carlson was busy interviewing Roseanne Barr, if that tells you anything.

[Freude am Fahren]

So, I presume that eventually it will be basically confirmed that the Russians duped Trump (and us) and used him without his real knowledge. At which point, he will change his tune, and insist collusion, to try and avoid being seen as a ignorant puppet. At which point, half the country will say "See how smart he is? He tricked us all!"

[Tom Servo]

Giuliani on Cohen on May 6, 2018:


The man is an honest, honorable lawyer.

Giuliani on Cohen on July 27, 2018:


He has lied all his life… a person who is found to be an incredible liar, he’s got a tremendous motive to lie now… I don’t think anyone believes that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Giuliani has obviously been infected by the same russian virus that got Trump. Obviously the same symptoms!

The great conspiracy will be that it's Obama and Hillary who authorized development of this amazing biological weapon against Putin, but it accidentally ended up infecting Trump because they both had sex with Stormy!!! They didn't give Trump the antibody because they thought his craziness will cause him to lose the election..., boy were they wrong!!!

[drew]

...At which point, half the country will say "See how smart he is? He tricked us all!"

I've been saying that about the other half for over a year...

[Tom Servo]

My favorite version of the picture of Meuller and Don Jr. waiting for a flight.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjKMQz4U8AEUCy6.jpg

[Freude am Fahren]

I can't believe Jr. flies commercial.

[speedpimp]

His security detail sticks out like a sore thumb. Makes me wonder if they are Secret Service or private.

[Tom Servo]

Nice article on Populism.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/02/what-is-populist-trump/516525/

[Freude am Fahren]

And, unsurprisingly, the "Collusion isn't illegal anyway" nonsense has started.

[G'day Mate]

My favourite TV show, Planet America, played a clip of a lady calling into a TV show to say: "I'll try not to sound too awful, but I wanna thank the Russians for interfering with our election, to stop Hillary Clinton from becoming president. That woman has got illusions [sic] of grandeur ..."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/programs/planet-america/ - July 27th episode, 10:45 in.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interesting video explaining why most of the world's advance democracies are in trouble..., except Japan!

Trump is not the cause, but the symptom of our problems... and it'll probably get worse...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hESLPB3FiyY

[FaultyMario]

Thank God that when Fascism came to this country, it came in the form of an orange moron.


:lol:

[Dicknose]

I was talking about this with a mate (who is Aussie but also lived in the US and got citizenship) - Trump is doing a shit job but in general nothing that can be undone. International reputation will improve with the next president.
Sure there are individual people who are suffering terribly. He hasn’t done anything as permanently damaging as Brexit! Trade wars can go as quickly as they come.
But the country as a whole will survive this. Bend over and grit your teeth and hope it doesn’t last long!
(Yes easy to say from the other side of the planet)

[Crazed_Insanity]

At least he hasn't drag us into any bogus stupid wars... those things are kinda hard to undo.

So I guess it's a good strategy to be buddies with dictators. It's okay to dick around with allies knowing that we won't ever go into wars...

[FaultyMario]

At least he hasn't drag us into any bogus stupid wars...

I'm gonna knock on wood.

[FaultyMario]

Nice article on Populism.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/02/what-is-populist-trump/516525/

Here's a podcast as well: https://engineering.stanford.edu/magazine/article/anna-grzymala-busse-lessons-rise-global-populism, plus if I ever take a class on that subject I'd rather it be by her and not him. :P

[Tom Servo]

I was talking about this with a mate (who is Aussie but also lived in the US and got citizenship) - Trump is doing a shit job but in general nothing that can be undone. International reputation will improve with the next president.
Sure there are individual people who are suffering terribly. He hasn’t done anything as permanently damaging as Brexit! Trade wars can go as quickly as they come.
But the country as a whole will survive this. Bend over and grit your teeth and hope it doesn’t last long!
(Yes easy to say from the other side of the planet)

The thing that worries me is that Trump's a symptom, not the cause. It's the same thing that's leading to way too many people falling for this QAnon conspiracy (and Pizzagate before it). That isn't going away when Trump is gone. I feel like this is all an extension of the world that's now gotten us anti-vaxxers and flat-earthers, and nobody seems to know how to deal with that yet.

[Crazed_Insanity]

According to the video I posted earlier, I think Japanese knows how to prevent it and is currently the only advanced democracy immuned to this disease.

It’s aging population is probably more conservative in nature so they probably move very cautiously... and probably the contributing factor that they used social media the least... so more immuned to politically charged fake news. It’s relatively closed borders also meant they don’t have that many immigrants to blame. In fact, they probably appreciate immigrants supporting them as their population keeps on shrinking..., but as Japan accepts more and more immigrants, who knows, maybe they’ll end up with the same sickness as well...

Social media is great, but if FB and Twitter never existed, we’d never have president Trump. Every cool thing we invent comes with a price...

[neanderthal]

According to the video I posted earlier, I think Japanese knows how to prevent it and is currently the only advanced democracy immuned to this disease.

It’s aging population is probably more conservative in nature so they probably move very cautiously... and probably the contributing factor that they used social media the least... so more immuned to politically charged fake news. It’s relatively closed borders also meant they don’t have that many immigrants to blame. In fact, they probably appreciate immigrants supporting them as their population keeps on shrinking..., but as Japan accepts more and more immigrants, who knows, maybe they’ll end up with the same sickness as well...

Social media is great, but if FB and Twitter 3rd party voters never existed, we’d never have president Trump. Every cool thing we invent comes with a price...

They didn't vote so i've corrected that for you.

Before you say they "influenced the vote" remember that 93% of black women and 82% of black men weren't influenced. (https://www.cnn.com/election/2016/results/exit-polls)

Edit to make spoiler the whole quote. Sorry guys.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dude, we could influence black votes to vote 100% Hillary and it won't change election results. I'm sorry to say that with regard to this newly discovered social disease, black votes really don't matter. US politics does not revolve around black people you know. Similarly, it also doesn't revolve around 3rd party voters. These minority groups could perhaps tilt a level playing field, but unfortunately it wasn't enough last time around. Anti-establishment sentiment was strong.

Anti-establishment sentiment was strong on a global level, minus Japan. That sentimental force was stronger than black Americans nor American 3rd party voters. Get over it dude.

Social media didn't vote because they're not human, but they can certainly influence people. Russians did a great job of it. If you wish to deny the influences social media has, then we can stop investigating the russian meddling crap right now.

[Dicknose]

Japan is so different it’s not a model we could do. Eurpope, North America, Aus/NZ - we all have massive migration and you can’t undo that. Yes you can stop it, but that doesn’t change the fact that Japan is almost alone as a 1st world country that is racially/culturally homogeneous.

It is scary that there is unrest in a time of relatively good economic conditions. I can see them getting a lot worse and that’s when people start becoming more selfish. It’s harder to think about others when you are worried about yourself & your family.

To some degree the anti-intellectuals (vax/climate/flat earth etc) is always there. Weirdly they have taken onboard the “think for yourself” idea and used it to dismiss others who are smarter and do it for a living. It’s great to have your own opinions and not blindly follow, but that doesn’t mean ignore well established ideas just on principle.

We muddle our way forward and hope that the idiots don’t take us down with them...

[MR2 Fan]

Japan is so different it’s not a model we could do. Eurpope, North America, Aus/NZ - we all have massive migration and you can’t undo that. Yes you can stop it, but that doesn’t change the fact that Japan is almost alone as a 1st world country that is racially/culturally homogeneous.

It is scary that there is unrest in a time of relatively good economic conditions. I can see them getting a lot worse and that’s when people start becoming more selfish. It’s harder to think about others when you are worried about yourself & your family.

To some degree the anti-intellectuals (vax/climate/flat earth etc) is always there. Weirdly they have taken onboard the “think for yourself” idea and used it to dismiss others who are smarter and do it for a living. It’s great to have your own opinions and not blindly follow, but that doesn’t mean ignore well established ideas just on principle.

We muddle our way forward and hope that the idiots don’t take us down with them...


I feel like a lot of these idiots are just living in a perpetual conspiracy movie....a lot of them are older and stay home all day watching the live 24/7 conspiracy coverage like it's one long political thriller, except that the pundits at Fox news, infowars etc. lay it out as fact and that they should be scared.

I was really surprised to hear that Hannity actually came to the defense of CNN's Jim Acosta who was getting yelled at and threatened by Qanon people in Tampa and said he doesn't believe being violent is the answer.

[Crazed_Insanity]

[edit] Okay, was responding to DN, but I think it's probably more appropriate for me to move that lengthy response to my philosophical political thread...

[Tom Servo]

Apropos conspiracies: https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/08/the-lasting-trauma-of-alex-joness-lies/566573/

[Tom Servo]

Trump administration lifts ban on pesticides linked to declining bee numbers (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/04/trump-administration-lifts-ban-on-pesticides-linked-to-declining-bee-numbers?CMP=twt_gu)

He is just like the world's shittiest super-villain.

[FaultyMario]

Seriously, neonicotinoids? Fuuu

[MR2 Fan]

next Asbestos will be legal again

[Tom Servo]

Well, he confessed:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dj1je2eUcAAv8UO.jpg:large

He also just inferred that his son lied under oath when he claimed the meeting was about adoption.

[G'day Mate]

I'm not sure whether to laugh or facepalm

[G'day Mate]

So what's Trump's biggest problem from Mueller? Conspiracy? Obstruction? Misuse of funds? Other?

[FaultyMario]

All of them.

Nobody knows exactly where the evidence leads but there's a strong possibility that people in the Trump organization will get hit with fraud charges. Since money laundering is inherently difficult to prove, it would probably relate to fraud and tax evasion.

Here's a question for Nate. IIRC District Attorneys are elected members that respond to their electorate, and they work with (investigative police) to gather evidence, they ask their corresponding police agency to look for certain things right, they go thru a process Judge to have that procedure cleared, right? For example if the DAs need to gather data that individuals/entities are not required by law to provide to the authorities. So, in the case of Mueller, and other special counsels, how does that work? Why is the investigation started not by the judiciary but by the legislative? Does he have special powers that make him a sort of superior to DAs? Are they investigating criminal activities or are they a probe and then from the initial evidence gathered further prosecutors are called in? AFAIU procedure for his team is a little different from that of a "normal" investigation, right?

[FaultyMario]

Oh and just to be clear on my answer Dave, Mueller is going after the money. He put together a team of people with experience on financial crime. He might not levy charges against a sitting president, but he is surely going to hit Trump's bank account.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Trump has been unbelievably resilient even prior to becoming president. There had been so many crisis that should’ve put him away but he just kept on hanging on... not sure if it’s luck or he’s just really good...

So I’m not holding my breath. Maximum term he can serve is 8 years. Hopefully he can be removed sooner. If he lasts more than 8 years, then I’m buying me some guns...

You guys really should stop reading his tweets or anything related to him on social media. Get real news on real news outlets. It’ll be better for your mental health.

[FaultyMario]

There had been so many crisis that should’ve put him away but he just kept on hanging on... not sure if it’s luck or he’s just really good...


The explanation is much simpler.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If you really understood, then you should be able to predict Trumps future...

Can you guesstimate how many years he’ll be in the White House? Or how about just will he run in 2020? Personally I’d not know which way to place my bet. I hope he’ll be forced out somehow, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him making America greater again in 2020.

[FaultyMario]

Please don't put words in my mouth, that is a really annoying way to have a conversation or discussion; it's really offputting to try and talk to someone when that someone is having a soliloquy and just makes use of you as a stage prop.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mi amigo, I hope you know it's also very annoying to be seen as a stage prop? Or be viewed as a dumbass who gets confused by something that can be explained simply...

Or my feeling is irrelevant because your feelings are more important? Or am I putting words into your mouth again? Sorry, just thinking out loud.

Next time you talk to yourself, please don't quote me... then I probably won't end up annoying you. No guarantees of course... ;)

People seriously are too sensitive nowadays. I'd admit I'm not very sensitive at times, but I do try to be as polite as I can...

Sorry to go off topic, let's get back to pissing each other off using politics! :p

[Tom Servo]

Well, considering the White House has previously called presidential tweets the official record, I think they're actually kinda important to pay attention to. The one I put above especially so - it's an admission of something that they've been denying for over a year, sometimes under oath. If anything, it'll massively change the ballgame when it comes to obstruction of justice charges, which makes me think it's politically newsworthy.

Also, I also highly recommend the podcast Slow Burn about the Watergate scandal. It's actually somewhat comforting how many similarities there were, even down to a large percentage of the population still swearing loyalty to Nixon as he resigned. The vilifying the media as an enemy of the people, and only reporting lies. It's almost like hearing someone telling an allegory about the current state of things.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If these tweets result in his resignation or impeachment, I’d certainly be glad about that. However, I’m not going to go over every single one of them because they’re mostly trash and I think it’s pretty clear now that social media is poisoning our minds. WH tweets are particularly poisonous.

[Tom Servo]

Well, hey, since I (and others) post them using that silly account that makes them look like official WH press statements, they're pretty easy to spot and just not read.

[neanderthal]

Well, he confessed:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dj1je2eUcAAv8UO.jpg:large

He also just inferred that his son lied under oath when he claimed the meeting was about adoption.

I'm pretty sure this confession is just a misdirect of an even greater wrongdoing that is on the cusp of being revealed.

Further investigation will directly lead to his Russian mob ties and reveal his actual wealth; much less than he boasts. It would explain his selling access via his hotels and gold resorts.

[neanderthal]

If these tweets result in his resignation or impeachment, I’d certainly be glad about that. However, I’m not going to go over every single one of them because they’re mostly trash and I think it’s pretty clear now that social media is poisoning our minds. WH tweets are particularly poisonous.

Speak for yourself. Many of us weren't poisoned by social media.

We've gone from "both parties are the same" (billi circa 2015- 2016) to "our minds have been poisoned by social media (billi right fucking now) without a mea culpa. Or a hint of self awareness.

[neanderthal]

So what's Trump's biggest problem from Mueller? Conspiracy? Obstruction? Misuse of funds? Other?

Being exposed as a fraud.

Criminally, every one of them. individually any one of them by themselves would be, ... what's the word, acceptable? After all we are all humans and have our foibles. But all of them put together unmask the emperor with no clothes. Or dignity.

But that doesn't matter to his legion of deplorables; as long as they can piss off the libruls.

[speedpimp]

I'm not sure whether to laugh or facepalm

Do them both simultaneously.

[FaultyMario]

Mi amigo, I hope you know it's also very annoying to be seen as a stage prop? Or be viewed as a dumbass who gets confused by something that can be explained simply...

Or my feeling is irrelevant because your feelings are more important? Or am I putting words into your mouth again? Sorry, just thinking out loud.

Next time you talk to yourself, please don't quote me... then I probably won't end up annoying you. No guarantees of course... ;)

People seriously are too sensitive nowadays. I'd admit I'm not very sensitive at times, but I do try to be as polite as I can...

Sorry to go off topic, let's get back to pissing each other off using politics! :p

Highly profitable, grey-zone activities. Until now, it has been Cheaper to pay the fines/lawyers/accountants than do the right thing.

Trump has had enough money / energy to buy people's consciences and silences.

Lately he got cocky and, or sloppy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neanderthal, Both parties are the same only in terms of them becoming more and more extreme and no longer in touch of the needs of average Americans. Gap between rich and poor is widening regardless who’s in power. Of course we can always blame the worst congress ever, just as ‘they’ blame everything on Obama including 911...

Anyway, Steering America too far right or too far left is just not good.

Social media is also widening the gap between right and left.

Neanderthal, I really think your mind is already poisoned to the point of possibly beyond saving.

In this miserable fucked up world, you are actively trying to pursue and arrest billi for stealing a piece of bread simply because he’s hungry.

Get over billi, Hillary lost not because of 3rd party voters. She shouldn’t have ran as the ‘established’ candidate.

[Tom Servo]

Social media is also widening the gap between right and left.

I think I finally see the connection. So, I disagree that the fact that Trump tends to make his statements on social media as connected to the widening of the gap. The widening of the gap came from the prominence of partisan media organizations using analytics to push propaganda and game the system. Right wing sites likes Turning Point USA and The Daily Caller, left wing sites like Talking Points Memo and Share Blue. Even more so just various "pages", like "Uncle Sam's Misguided Children" and "US Resistance". Maybe even moreso a sense of anonymity: See the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. I would argue that actual individuals posting their own posts on social media as themselves aren't the issue, and I include the president in that.

I would agree that the vast majority of social media "pages" or "orgs" are not newsworthy for this thread, it's why I never share social media posts from them, nor do I link directly to their articles. The actual words of the President of the United States, however, I would consider always on topic for an ostensibly US-based politics (though not exclusively) thread. That said, I still rarely post what he says - only if I think it's particularly newsworthy (in the case of essentially confessing to collusion, for instance) or hilariously stupid, as I enjoy a good laugh at his expense. Finally, I think it's really important to pay attention to what he says and does. He is the president, and I'm not a huge fan of letting elected officials run unchecked, even if Twitter is the medium for pointing things out.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don’t disagree with your statement in general Swervo. However, you have to also agree that Trump would have a very hard time winning without social media... not sure what helped him more... the meddling of Russians or his twitter feeds... maybe his tweets did little to help him? If that’s the case, then your absolutely right. However, if his tweets also are what’s attracting his base, then you reading such crap can only end up pissing you off more and more. This cannot possibly be healthy.

Forget about the actual content of the tweets for now, if somebody just hates Christianity, he can probably get more and more pissed just by reading tweets of bible verses.

So my point is you should probably only follow somebody you truly want to follow. Unless I’m actually involved in investigating his ass, you couldn’t pay me enough to read his tweets. Seriously, lots of foreign nations are confuse about US stances because of the conflicting nature of how he tweets and how he acts. Why allow him to mess with you like that? Just put him on twitter ignore is probably good for your sanity. I could be wrong of course. Just my 2 cents.

[Tom Servo]

Eh, his tweets don't really piss me off. Like I said, most of the time they make me laugh. In the meantime, everyone else I follow is either a reporter I trust (mostly LA Times), a local mobility advocate, or a comedian/comedy writer, so my twitter reading doesn't usually involve much rage.

[FaultyMario]

You have to also agree that Trump would have a very hard time winning without social media... not sure what helped him more... the meddling of Russians or his twitter feeds...

One: We know that in his business practice, if you think of it as a game, he's always taken advantage of privileged access to resources; be it real estate, casinos or playboy models.

Two: He is a media personality, he's had privileged access to a yuge audience, much like Oprah, Lebron or Kylie Jenner, he has made tremendous profit from that exposure. But like his ventures with casinos or playboy models, not all his branding licenses have come to fruition in a way that he wins bigly wins. See Trump U for further reference.

Three: It was only natural that such an insanely profittable industry like electoral politics would be in his radar. He dove into it, with the same bunch of shady associates that have helped him along the way in real estate, casinos and playboy models. And with the same mafia tactics that he has used in those other activities.

Four: Treat like Karen McDougal the U.S. Constitution you can't.

[FaultyMario]

That said, I still rarely post what he says - only if I think it's particularly newsworthy (in the case of essentially confessing to collusion, for instance) or hilariously stupid, as I enjoy a good laugh at his expense.

There was twitter thread the other day about a known associate of Manafort who had started a Movie distribution business with Steven Seagal, I think Manafort had put up some money as well. The whole thing ended in tears, with police, mafia family names and restraining orders mentioned. Then someone added that this third guy, had his ponies break out of his NYC mansion during a winter storm.

You can't make this shit up.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Eh, his tweets don't really piss me off. Like I said, most of the time they make me laugh. In the meantime, everyone else I follow is either a reporter I trust (mostly LA Times), a local mobility advocate, or a comedian/comedy writer, so my twitter reading doesn't usually involve much rage.
If your reading them just for comic relief, then it’ll probably have a positive effect on your mental health. However, they might be detrimental to your intelligence though... :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

One: We know that in his business practice, if you think of it as a game, he's always taken advantage of privileged access to resources; be it real estate, casinos or playboy models.

Two: He is a media personality, he's had privileged access to a yuge audience, much like Oprah, Lebron or Kylie Jenner, he has made tremendous profit from that exposure. But like his ventures with casinos or playboy models, not all his branding licenses have come to fruition in a way that he wins bigly wins. See Trump U for further reference.

Three: It was only natural that such an insanely profittable industry like electoral politics would be in his radar. He dove into it, with the same bunch of shady associates that have helped him along the way in real estate, casinos and playboy models. And with the same mafia tactics that he has used in those other activities.

Four: Treat like Karen McDougal the U.S. Constitution you can't.

Yeah, I think over the years, Trump has proven that he's not that great of a businessman, but he is damn good at managing his 'brand'. He's also super good at feeling the crowd and to be able to go off script to say the shit the crowd likes to hear. At different crowds, people might want different things so what he said often conflict... Anyway, I believe Hitler was also very gifted in this regard. Luckily Hitler didn't have social media at his disposal... and I hope Trump isn't as psychologically damaged as Hitler...

[FaultyMario]

No, he doesn't actually prepare what he is going to say.

There's a bunch of people with various amounts of experience in specialized areas of campaigning that research, plan and prepare a number of discourse lines that will resonate with a certain audience. You could say it's a sort of professionalized form of populism, it is designed for maximum efficacy. Trump doesn't have to believe in what he says, him being a charismatic figure with good speech delivery takes [those discourses] in and provides a good platform for those ideas.

It is a symbiotic relationship that was working well for those Republican Party professionals; they got what they wanted, He got what he wanted. In a way it's similar to the Dubya administration, except that the Bushes' main professional activity was politics, in Trump's case it was the entertainment industry. There's a dislodge there because he thinks he can outplay this game like he has outplayed other games; remember that he came into Reality TV from a legitimate real estate business, and he succeeded. Except that now he is either too old of a dog to learn the new tricks that politics demands or, worryingly, he is mentally ill.

He goes off in his twitter morning tirades because he gets his information from Fox instead of the governmental apparatus at his disposal. Why would he do that?

He does all these unethical business deals from his government post insted of using whatever other options previous presidents (who got insanely rich from office) had at their disposal. Why would he do that?

Either he is too old or, worryingly, he is mentally ill.

[FaultyMario]

Gates told jurors that he helped establish the offshore accounts for Manafort, and that Manafort had negotiated with Ukrainian oligarchs on how payments to the accounts would be made.

Tuesday was Gates’s second day in court: He testified on Monday that he had committed crimes with Manafort, including filing fraudulent tax returns and hiding overseas accounts.

Gates is the star witness in Manafort’s trial on bank and tax fraud charges, the first trial in special counsel Robert Mueller's probe.

Prosecutors for Mueller are alleging that Manafort had control over his finances and that he concealed millions in income in order to maintain a lavish lifestyle.

http://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/400728-gates-testifies-millions-of-dollars-moved-through-shell-companies

[FaultyMario]

Trump: Tell them Paul, that's how politicians do campaigns... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fANwTBK3Ylg)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Why would he do that?

Either he is too old or, worryingly, he is mentally ill.

Just like not paying taxes, he'd call himself 'smart'.

Anyway, like I said, I don't know what to make of him. Historians will certainly have fun with him later on...

[MR2 Fan]

Not directly politics related, but pretty damn close....a very enlightening thread about the change in how we challenge quack doctors/conspiracy theories etc.

https://twitter.com/tkingdot/status/1026889702543122433

[FaultyMario]

Yeah, dude. Everything's interconnected!

Seriously, i doubt the format (microblogging) Is ideal for an essay like hers but she does raise some valid points.

[Crazed_Insanity]

She has some great points regarding healthcare inequalities promotes alternative medicine myth... however, I have a problem with equating everything that western medicine/science doesn't understand as quackery.

Again, it's the established superior rational way of living versus quackery deplorable foolish way. It should be obvious to all which side you should be on and if you choose the wrong side, then you must be a deplorable hateful dumbass. As if everything in the world must neatly split up in 2 sides. You are either one or the other. Seriously? The 'established' side cannot acknowledge that there are things that they don't quite understand? And must they tell people what's good for them?

Eastern medicine such as accupressure/accunpuncture works. I don't understand how it works, but poking needles or pressing on certain spots in your body can improve your body. Maybe it is all just placebo effect, but if a certain 'quackery' can help induce or promote placebo effect to improve healing, is it that bad? This of course can include religious faith...

Anyway, just make your superior western medicine cheaper and easy for all to receive. Then we can definitely stop spreading with the alternative medicine myth. Now for those few who insist on relying on prayer, let them do whatever they want. If Jesus saves them great. If there's no Jesus, then they'll all just die off and disappear. If you're seriously pro-choice, then allow parents to have to choice to decide how they raise their children. If you're pro saving children's lives, then you gotta also stop women killing off embryos! Because we shouldn't allow people to abuse embryos, right? Why is it rational for us to bully embryos to death? Just because they haven't fully grown up? Anyway, these are rhetorical questions, you guys need not answer.

Back to politics..., if the "Establishment" sitting on their superior horse actually thought about the needs of average Americans and do something about it, there'd be no anti-establishment sentiments around the world. If 'myth' can bring hope to some, I don't see why you must get rid of all of it. We just need to get rid of the harmful ones. Certain ancient mythical stories whether from the Bible or other cultures can often offer us tremendous wise insights. No need to look down on them as backwards foolish hateful stories.

[Tom Servo]

The EPA put forth a proposal to allow using asbestos again. Which seems crazy. Until you find out about the Russian asbestos manufacturer that markets it as being "Donald Trump approved".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2018/07/11/approved-by-donald-trump-asbestos-sold-by-russian-company-is-branded-with-the-presidents-face/?utm_term=.b5cbf09f785e

[Crazed_Insanity]

EPA has never fully banned asbestos? Really? Did I read that right?

Anyway, Russians and trump sure are cozy... don’t they know we’re investigating Trump? Or this is further attempts to meddle with US...

[G'day Mate]

Alex Jones ... eat shit.

[MR2 Fan]

next Asbestos will be legal again

Dammit, I hate being right. I had no idea when I posted this that it would actually happen, but hey, everything else is going back to s*** why not that also?

[21Kid]

:smh:

Jezzus christ.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dammit, I hate being right. I had no idea when I posted this that it would actually happen, but hey, everything else is going back to s*** why not that also?

You must be colluding with the commies!!!:mad:

[G'day Mate]

"Perjury trap"

How do you trap someone into lying?

[Tom Servo]

Well, you ask them "Did you do this thing that's illegal?" I mean, what're you going to say?

In the meantime, this amused me.

https://i.redd.it/piwx2glteye11.jpg

[G'day Mate]

Well, you ask them "Did you do this thing that's illegal?" I mean, what're you going to say?

That's what I mean. By saying something is a perjury trap you're basically admitting to doing something illegal.

[MR2 Fan]

3115https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkL2CS4UUAAqFGo.jpg

[Tom Servo]

I know it's not the point, but the red line going over one of the fingers while going under all the other ones is setting off my OCD that I didn't know I had until right now.

[21Kid]

LOL. That's perfect

[G'day Mate]

I know it's not the point, but the red line going over one of the fingers while going under all the other ones is setting off my OCD that I didn't know I had until right now.

I saw that immediately as well, and thought it was so bad it must be a reference to some other thing. Is it?

[Crazed_Insanity]

You have to be married to explore space..., otherwise you’d be really lonely out there.

[G'day Mate]

Wasn't Major Tom both married and lonely? Your story doesn't add up :P

[Tom Servo]

I saw that immediately as well, and thought it was so bad it must be a reference to some other thing. Is it?

It's been a while, but it occurred to me that I think the esteemed Mr. Goatse had a prominent ring on his finger, so it's probably an allusion to that.

In fairness, it was only the second most prominent ring in the picture, but prominent nonetheless.

[G'day Mate]

Yep, you're right

So how many times do you have to google that before you to straight to hell again?

[Jason]

It's been a while, but it occurred to me that I think the esteemed Mr. Goatse had a prominent ring on his finger, so it's probably an allusion to that.

In fairness, it was only the second most prominent ring in the picture, but prominent nonetheless.

You're talking about the coffee cup ring stain on the table next to him, right?

[Phil_SS]

I'm just gonna take your word for it.

[FaultyMario]

The whole thing about a space branch of the military does not appear like a bad idea. But a Space Force, sounds like a silly TV reality show.

I mean, i'm sure there's feasibility studies already for a bunch of the things that Trump wants, so why not put together a team of competent people at the white house to go through the stuff where R&D has already spent resources before going off on the media with this silly shit?

It goes back to my earlier post, there's a million legitimate ways to squeeze money out of public office, why that need to 'innovate'?; there's a million tools at the disposal of the most powerful man in the world, why use a fucking hammer for everything?

[tigeraid]

I'm a huge, huge proponent of space exploration and settlement, especially Mars.

But....

http://i.imgflip.com/1303tf.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

The whole thing about a space branch of the military does not appear like a bad idea. But a Space Force, sounds like a silly TV reality show.

I mean, i'm sure there's feasibility studies already for a bunch of the things that Trump wants, so why not put together a team of competent people at the white house to go through the stuff where R&D has already spent resources before going off on the media with this silly shit?

It goes back to my earlier post, there's a million legitimate ways to squeeze money out of public office, why that need to 'innovate'?; there's a million tools at the disposal of the most powerful man in the world, why use a fucking hammer for everything?

Because hammer is on the Soviet Union flag! He also wants to make Soviet Union great again!

[The359]

There already is a Space division. The Air Force Space Command.

[FaultyMario]

There already is a Space division. The Air Force Space Command.

Imagine how difficult it must be for his aides to know that when he pitches that space force thing.

Ok, in Roger Stone's case (the man who allegedly worked with Julian Assange to dump the russian-gathered Clinton emails during the campaign) there's three key people who know how Stone might have helped the russians help the Trump campaign. Randy Credico, a radio personality who was the link to both Assange and to Guccifer 2.0 (the russian intelligence officer[s]); there's also Andrew Miller, who has lost his case against being subpoenad by Mueller, and Kristin Davis, the 'Manhattan Madam', who is set to appear before a grand jury soon.

Does anybody know what's the deal with these last two?

[FaultyMario]

Special Counsel Robert Mueller is Reportedly Preparing a Subpoena for Stone/Assange Intermediary, Randy Credico (https://hillreporter.com/special-counsel-robert-mueller-is-reportedly-preparing-a-subpoena-for-stone-assange-intermediary-randy-credico-5483)


It appears as though the the special counsel’s office has been concentrating heavily on Trump advisor Roger Stone, likely looking at whether or not Stone participated in a conspiracy to violate the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act when he may have helped propagate data that he was not authorized to access.

If Stone worked with Julian Assange and Wikileaks, along with Russian hacker Guccifer 2.0 to obtain or help propagate stolen emails from the DNC, Stone and members of the Trump campaign, as high up as the President himself, may have violated federal law.

[Tom Servo]

Russian Orphans Devastated After Realizing Trump Tower Meeting Not About Getting Them Adopted (https://politics.theonion.com/russian-orphans-devastated-after-realizing-trump-tower-1828141136)

[FaultyMario]

I have watched with dismay and increasing horror as [Stephen Miller], who is an educated man and well aware of his heritage, has become the architect of immigration policies that repudiate the very foundation of our family’s life in this country. (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/08/13/stephen-miller-is-an-immigration-hypocrite-i-know-because-im-his-uncle-219351)

[FaultyMario]

How is an NDA enforced for White House employees in order not to conflict with the Freedom of Information Act and the Presidential Records Act?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Information has to be official released, not whistleblowed by a low level employee.

Don’t speak for the president, let him tweet it himself.

[FaultyMario]

Precisely, public information is public domain unless it's reserved; that's how it works for most of the plural world.

These people, the Kellyanne Conways of the Trump Cult, have absolutely no moral imperative to execute a government of the state, furthermore they lack a basic understanding of government. Space Force being a paradigmatical example of their shit comprehension skills.

The Mueller probe has shown that staff selection, administration and direction has ranged from problematic to downright dangerous.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hey, they drained the swamp, but replaced with oil spills and radioactive shit...

I guess people will now finally appreciate swamp things because they are indeed lesser of 2 evils... then again, maybe not. Trump supporters still love oil and Nukular shit over swamp things...

Will we ever get some competent folks who are not corrupt working for us? US constitution has been doing a decent job thus far I suppose... compared to Mexico for example. :p

Corruption is like gravity, not easy to fight against it.

[FaultyMario]

What have we got to do with your shit? Our constitution is 100 years old, of a political nature and rooted in Civil Law while the U.S. constitution is legal and based in English Common law.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Nothing. Just comparing how the 2 nations deal with corruption problems. US constitution is far from perfect, but it has been one of the best at fighting corruption. It can't prevent Trump, but I'm confident that Trump won't become another Hitler.

Now am I right to assume Mexican govt has serious corruption problems? Since I'm not that familiar with the ins and outs of your government, I'll just let you figure that out and I'll just assume that I'm wrong.

Regardless of nationality, we need politicians who are competent and not corrupt, but that's just something very difficult to achieve.

[The359]

You were confident about a lot of things.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, but I'm also aware of the reality that I'm not always right though. :p

[FaultyMario]

Now am I right to assume Mexican govt has serious corruption problems? Since I'm not that familiar with the ins and outs of your government, I'll just let you figure that out and I'll just assume that I'm wrong.

Yes, Mexico is a country with a high perception of corruption. And corruption is, as I understand it, a product of the institutions (broad term encopassing those organizations that govern everyday life) of our country; there are among others: corrupt politicians, corrupt teachers, corrupt doctors, corrupt business people.

Before you point that out, Mexico is also a disorganized entity. A lot of our problems stem from our incapacity to fully systematize and separate spheres of influence and action among the different actors that make up our society. That institutional mess is one of the main reasons why criminal organizations have it easy in trying to further limit the acts of the state on a wide variety of ambients, from commerce to justice to politics; or at least those are the academic explanations I've read. Comparative politics of the U.S. and Mexico must be a daunting task, and I believe it ought to be a paid job; difficult shit, homes, difficult.

With that said, I think a problem you make in this discussion is equate the abstract with the concrete; yes in the U.S. there's a very effective legal device in the U.S. Constitution, but that is an abstract construct. The good United States of America has built in its four centuries of history an intricate network of organizations, resources and procedures that allow the rights and duties enshrined in your legal framework materialize in things everyday people can see, touch and feel in their everyday lives. From a special counsel investigation, to tax forms, to prisons for inmigrant children, to food stamps.

What I see in Trumpism, and what I'm trying to discuss here, is the disregard for the abstract forms of american politics that translates into... i don't know... Space Force and Omarosa Manigault, The Morning Tweets and Sean Fucking Hannity.

It's like watching a technophobe try to re-engineer a computer network .

[FaultyMario]

In hindsight, comparing the Trump Cult to the Bush puppeteers... I guess we're lucky the Mike Pences and the Jeff Sessions don't have the power the Dick Cheneys and the Karl Roves had. If the latter are scary the former are frightening.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not sure constitutions are THAT abstract, but one could view a nation's DNA as something abstract I suppose...

Anyway, IMHO, while this Trumpism disease so far is quite scary, I don't think it's so terminal as if our DNA's all mutated to the point that we won't ever recover from this sickness. Not even people in his party fully support him. Worst case scenario is that he'll make a huge mess for 8 years..., but hopefully we can recover sooner. As for space force, I'm not sure what's the problem with that. Surely in American's beginning, we also had no air force? But I think there's probably more urgency to have a new branch of military forces in the virtual reality to at least ensure that our elections won't be messed with in the future.

Anyway, China and Russia are now infected with cancerous dictators. In some ways, I think it's good timing that these crazy dictators get to deal with an crazy president like Trump.

Like I've said before, at least so far Trump hasn't started a bogus war... and his unpredictability has taken aback the dictators and terrorist groups somewhat... So I'd rate his admin to be better than W's... for now. (Keep knocking on wood!) Hopefully there'll be no real bogus trade war as well... fingers crossed.

[Tom Servo]

As far as I see it, there are a few problems with the space force:


We already have an Air Force Space Command
It would presumably cost a ton of money that could potentially be put to better use elsewhere
The name is stupid.

[FaultyMario]

d) It is a distraction from the United States law enforcement and counterintelligence investigation of the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election commission.

[Tom Servo]

How is an NDA enforced for White House employees in order not to conflict with the Freedom of Information Act and the Presidential Records Act?

They may not be enforceable (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/everyone-signed-one-trump-is-aggressive-in-his-use-of-nondisclosure-agreements-even-in-government/2018/08/13/9d0315ba-9f15-11e8-93e3-24d1703d2a7a_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.91f5347fc29f)

[FaultyMario]

If it looks like a crisis, swims like a crisis, and quacks like a crisis, then it probably is a national security crisis. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-situation-room-moments-20180813-story.html#) One provoked by the incompetency of the White House staff, starting at the top, of course.

Raise your hand if you want to be John Kelly right now!

[MR2 Fan]

will henceforth be known as the Snitchuation Room

[Tom Servo]

Manafort's defense filed a motion to dismiss, that got denied, then they rested. No witnesses called.

In the meantime, emails came up in the trial from Manafort to Kushner asking that they consider certain people for certain cabinet spots, including Stephen Calk as Secretary of the Army. Calk is the CEO of Federal Saving Bank, who coincidentally loaned Manafort $16 million at the time (and presumably has no other qualifications for Army Secretary). Kushner replied "On it!"

[Tom Servo]

NBC News appears to have tracked down the source of QAnon posts and, surprise, surprise, it's all a scam by a few grifters to steal idiots' money.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/how-three-conspiracy-theorists-took-q-sparked-qanon-n900531

[21Kid]

Manafort's defense filed a motion to dismiss, that got denied, then they rested. No witnesses called.

In the meantime, emails came up in the trial from Manafort to Kushner asking that they consider certain people for certain cabinet spots, including Stephen Calk as Secretary of the Army. Calk is the CEO of Federal Saving Bank, who coincidentally loaned Manafort $16 million at the time (and presumably has no other qualifications for Army Secretary). Kushner replied "On it!"

OMG!

I can't believe it!

Scandal!!!

...
:erm:

Seriously... How is this entire administration & family not in jail yet? :smh:

[Crazed_Insanity]

You know with all the media hype about crooked Hillary and now crooked Trump..., I suppose as long as they are not in jail, it is safe to "presume" that they're not really that crooked? Only being reported by their opposition as crooked?

Or is our justice system is the one that's crooked?

[FaultyMario]

Slightly off-topic. Free market economist Tyler Cowen (https://publicchoice.gmu.edu/tylercowen) worries that the shift to the service economy erodes the principle of property rights (https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-08-12/american-ownership-society-is-changing-thanks-to-technology) upon which the US was founded (the pursuit of happiness, bit). That's a link to Bloomberg, which has a pay-wall and limits the amount of articles you can read for fre. If for some reason you don't want to go there, here's an excerpt.



I worry that Americans are, slowly but surely, losing their connection to the idea of private ownership. The nation was based on the notion that property ownership gives individuals a stake in the system. It set Americans apart from feudal peasants, taught us how property rights and incentives operate, and was a kind of training for future entrepreneurship.

[mk]

^^orange pardon.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Slightly off-topic. Free market economist Tyler Cowen (https://publicchoice.gmu.edu/tylercowen) worries that the shift to the service economy erodes the principle of property rights (https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-08-12/american-ownership-society-is-changing-thanks-to-technology) upon which the US was founded (the pursuit of happiness, bit). That's a link to Bloomberg, which has a pay-wall and limits the amount of articles you can read for fre. If for some reason you don't want to go there, here's an excerpt.

One would take much better car of his car if he owns it. (vs leases or rentals) So yeah, I definitely agree with that author that the property, particularly land, ownership was definitely something that set America apart from the rest of the world and made it great in the first place. Everyone is just more involved... has more at stake... rather than just surviving to get thru another day...

But physical property ownership has its limitations. We have limited amount of land available. Our limited space also limit how many cars, books, DVDs we can fit in our limited living spaces... so I think the current shift is a natural progression. Not sure if it's good or bad though. Also not sure if buying a car will definitely help you become better entrepreneur than leasing or ubering your rides. People just need to learn how to invest rather than how to spend. Ownership itself may not be the key.

With regard to our nation, we've over-borrorwed and over-spent and made very little 'investments' for our future. It'll take a miracle to make America great again IMHO.

[FaultyMario]

With regard to our nation, we've over-borrorwed and over-spent and made very little 'investments' for our future. It'll take a miracle to make America great again IMHO.

mmm... so that's why you support Trump.

[Dicknose]

Land ownership was more important when only land owners got a vote.
It’s still important from an economic security point of view, but I don’t see that it’s that important. Is it bad if first world economies move towards “software” ie producing non physical items

[FaultyMario]

^^orange pardon.

That'd be poison for someone running in 2020.

And Trump isn't one to take one for the team.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Land ownership was more important when only land owners got a vote.
It’s still important from an economic security point of view, but I don’t see that it’s that important. Is it bad if first world economies move towards “software” ie producing non physical items
I honestly don’t think it’s good for us to invest all of our eggs into producing just software at Silicon Valley. We definitely need to produce more hardware like what Elon Musk is doing. We do live in a physical world after all.

Our overall productivity could bias more toward software, just can’t completely forget about hardware. Just as living organisms, you can only advance so much with bigger muscles, but bigger brain is definitely more important. Just that we shouldn’t focus so much on our brain and allow our limbs to atrophy away...

[Crazed_Insanity]

mmm... so that's why you support Trump.

I’m not convinced that Trump is a God given miracle yet..., but I could be wrong of course. If I can be convinced, sure I’ll be his supporter.

[mk]

That'd be poison for someone running in 2020.

Not if verdict is wrong.

I read somewhere that conservatism is in genes.

Can they wait over second term?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I read somewhere that conservatism is in genes.



Yes, it is scientifically confirmed that political leaning is 'largely' due to genes. People at the right are genetically deplorable and can't help themselves but support Trump... and to refuse Obamacare even if they're sick and poor. Only way for them to give up on Trump is for Trump to switch to a democratic ticket. Likewise, they'll probably support Trumpcare if a conservative were the one that came up with a Great healthcare insurance.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-genes-of-left-and-right/

[FaultyMario]

mmm... so that's why you support Trump.

Got some numbers from the census bureau for upper limit of each income bracket, as a percentage of 2016 dollars, taking the middle class (64K current USD, per year on average.) as the 100%; the last column marks the lower limit:



Year
Lowest
Second
Third
Fourth
Top five percent



2016
32.1%
60.9%
100.0%
162%
301%




2006
33.4%
63.0%
100.0%
162%
290%



1996
33.6%
63.1%
100.0%
155%
272%



1986
33.7%

64.4%
100.0%
151%
253%


1976
35.2%
65.6%
100.0%
144%
228%





Income distribution shows that the rich have gotten comparatively richer, while the poor have gotten poorer remained earning around one third of what the middle class earns.
I'm going to guess that the two lowest fifths have a proportionately larger number of households in 2016 than they had in 1976.

[FaultyMario]

Nope, in general households have become more evenly distributed among income brackets.



Year
Number of households
Total
"Under
$24,999"
$25,000 to $49,999
$50,000 to $74,999
$75,000 to $149,999
"$150,000
and over"
Median income (dollars)
Mean income (dollars)


1967
60,813
99.9%
26.4%
29.9%
23.9%
17.3%
2.4%
44,895
50,213


1976

74,142
100%
25.0%
26.5%
22.2%
22.9%
3.4%
48,673
57,252


1986

89,479
100%
23.5%
24.8%
20.0%
25.5%
6.2%
52,068
64,328


1996
101,018
99.9%
22.8%
24.1%
18.2%
26.3%
8.5%
54,105
71,836



2006
116,011
99.9%
21.0%
23.6%
17.6%
26.5%
11.2%
57,379
79,246



2016
126,224
100.1%
20.8%
22.3%
17.0%
26.4%
13.6%
59,039
83,143

[FaultyMario]

In short, the MAGA narrative is flawed.

American household income has a fairer distribution, and at the same time the first 4 quintiles earn about 40% more than they did 50 years ago; the rich have income that saw an increase of 90%.

[Crazed_Insanity]

MAGA is not just about the widening gap between rich and poor. I think that was more of Bernie Sander's narrative.

MAGA is more about rejection of globalism, just like Brexit and all other nationalist movements.

As for your finding, fair is relative term. If the rich's income skyrocketed while my income remained the same fair income..., do you think I'd still be very happy? Besides being envious of rich's income, there are now bunch of houses, cars and goodies catered for the rich of which I cannot afford with my 'fair' income, of course I'll be upset.

Plus, if we're only comparing income, I make more than Elon Musk. His salary is supposedly like a $1/year, but thanks to CA labor law, we force Tesla to pay Elon minimum wage of $37k/yr.

Either way, I have higher annual income than Elon Musk.

Of course that isn't typical, but if we just look at average CEO pay vs average employee salary over the years, I think the wealth gap can be apparent.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ratio-of-ceo-to-average-worker-pay-2016-8

Average CEO pay ratio seems to have peaked around 2000 and then stabilized..., however, considering the effects of globalism, do you think these major companies are employing more higher paying employees now? Most likely quite a few were laid off so that they can get cheaper workers somewhere else.

[FaultyMario]

As for your finding, fair is relative term. If the rich's income skyrocketed while my income remained the same fair income..., do you think I'd still be very happy? Besides being envious of rich's income, there are now bunch of houses, cars and goodies catered for the rich of which I cannot afford with my 'fair' income, of course I'll be upset.



Fair as in divide by five, obtain portions of roughly twenty percent of total. I think that's clear.

And if you seriously believe you have higher inconme than Elon Musk, you're playing yourself and i'll no longer discuss anything with you on this thread because that's just... insulting.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't just believe, I'm telling you factual information that I have higher annual income than Elon Musk. This is cold hard factual indisputable data.

However, this 'fact' doesn't mean I'm actually richer than Elon Musk.

Just as your table of data may be factual, but doesn't tell the whole picture.

Plenty of folks are pissed off at 'something', you can't just present them with 'data' and tell them everything seems fine. We don't need to MAGA. Just stick with status quo!

[Tom Servo]

I know it's pedantic, but I feel like it's important to point out that you have a higher "annual salary" than he does. Not a higher annual income. Someone at his income level spends significantly less in taxes if it all comes from capital gains, not from salary/wages. It's why you should always take it with a grain of salt when someone who's already rich brags about taking no salary, or a $1 a year salary. They're saving themselves money, not sacrificing.

[FaultyMario]

You're delusional (https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-are-capital-gains-taxed), dude.

[FaultyMario]

That was for Billi. Not for you, Tom.


you can't just present them with 'data' and tell them everything seems fine

So we present "alternative" "facts" that then can accomodate to their preconceptions? That's just not a very good plan for making problems go away.

[FaultyMario]

Just as your table of data may be factual, but doesn't tell the whole picture.

Of course it doesn't. Those tables include all ethnicities, all states, all economic activities.

I never claimed it did. I said that the MAGA argument is not grounded in income inequality. It's something else. The "G" does not stand for great, it never did.

Perhaps it stands for "God", as its supporters seem to argue based on incredulity fallacies.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I know it's pedantic, but I feel like it's important to point out that you have a higher "annual salary" than he does. Not a higher annual income. Someone at his income level spends significantly less in taxes if it all comes from capital gains, not from salary/wages. It's why you should always take it with a grain of salt when someone who's already rich brags about taking no salary, or a $1 a year salary. They're saving themselves money, not sacrificing.

I fully agree with you.

If Elon doesn’t sell any of his assets, it is theoretically possible for a lot of us to achieve higher annual income than Elon.

My point was that gap between rich and poor is not all due to income.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So we present "alternative" "facts" that then can accomodate to their preconceptions? That's just not a very good plan for making problems go away.

We are emotional beings and rarely make decisions based solely on facts.

Besides, facts can be incomplete, manipulated to alternate...

Problems do not go away simply because facts show up. These social problems can only be resolved by love.

Antiestablishment sentiments did not come from failure to obtain real facts that the establishment had maintained fair income distribution, but the ‘feeling’ that they’ve been ignored.

You need to make them feel better somehow and not just point out the fact that they’re stupid and out of touch with reality.

If you don’t take care of their feelings, somebody like Trump will.

The US right and left are like a couple ready to divorce..., US can only be great again if both sides end up holding hands and work together. Divorces will only make things messy and sucky.

Btw, I’m not a supporter of Trump because I don’t believe he’s trying to unite this country and doesn’t have a clue with regard to how to MAGA!

[FaultyMario]

Fuck mobile chrome. Fuck it, fuck it, fuck it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m using mobile safari, don’t particularly love it. It’s just something Apple forced me to use...

Anyway, are you feeling okay? ;)

[FaultyMario]

Yeah, just not very nice to write 400 words and then have chrome reload the page.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Van Jones can perhaps illustrate the point better than I can:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dT7E4qX6qc

[Tom Servo]

From a Norwegian newspaper:

https://i.redd.it/54dqqeq6yxg11.jpg

Heia Norge.

[drew]

Awesome.

[FaultyMario]

"Obama is a man of total personal integrity." "Obama's problem is that he spoke with marvelous eloquence, but inequality kept on rising. He wasn't able to control it." "[Obama] did not act like a great president." "The interests of the leftist parties -we won't even speak of the right wing- have become more important than the interests of the population." "The world is full of free-roaming criminals. And maybe [Trump] will join that group. The one thing that comforts me is that Trump is such a painful judge of character that it makes him make the biggest mistakes." "Trump is the expression of the politics of grievance. In this country we've abandonded the idea of hunting him down. He has already been caught. What we don't know is whether he'll pay for it or not. Berlusconi was capable of destroying the Italian judicial system. And maybe Trump can achieve that here." "One can only have [creativity] when one speaks to someone else. You don't have an own voice to speak alone."


El País' interview with Richard Sennet. Translated by google (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Felpais.com%2Felpais%2F2018%2F08%2F 09%2Feps%2F1533824675_957329.html&edit-text=)or in Spanish (https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/08/09/eps/1533824675_957329.html) if you have a better way to get to it.

[Phil_SS]

Truth isn't truth....

[FaultyMario]

What do you mean?, is that related to a current event or you think that truth as part of the democratic life has eroded?

[MR2 Fan]

What do you mean?, is that related to a current event or you think that truth as part of the democratic life has eroded?

It's literally what Rudy Giuliani said during an interview yesterday.

[Tom Servo]

A week after he was on TV saying that facts are "in the eye of the beholder".

[SportWagon]

Stephen Colbert introduced us to truthiness as a named concept. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness

[Crazed_Insanity]

It is true that people nowadays can pick and choose and perhaps even make up facts to support their set ideologies(largely due to their genetic make up)

For example I’m pretty sure most Americans are not pro-death nor against choice, but we can pick and choose whatever facts necessary to support pro-life or pro-choice while denouncing the other.

It is really mind boggling for me to understand how conservatives can be against choice.

Likewise, how can liberals who wouldn’t dare spanking their own kids or find any form of child abuse unacceptable be okay with killing embryos? Moms cannot have the choice to spank her own kid, but okay to terminate its life? Or is it just the pain that’s the problem? Then can I just put my kid to sleep if I don’t want her anymore?

Anyway, this is what happens when political ideologies cloud our judgements. Unable to see the whole truth and end up stuck in their respective partial truths. All the while firmly believe people of the other side are backwards degenerate assholes.

Conservative ideology + liberal ideology = something closer to the whole truth

We cannot move forward if we only turn right or left.

[MR2 Fan]

There also isn't enough critical thinking skills taught in schools. We need more teaching of that specifically, along with fact-checking, the scientific method, how to determine when someone is being deceitful, almost like we have to think like lawyers...sad but true IMO.

[Tom Servo]

Truth indeed isn't truth. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2018/08/20/rudy-giuliani-does-not-exist/

[Crazed_Insanity]

This reminds me of the days when Bill Clinton needed to know what the definition of ‘is’ is...

Truth is that they’re Politicians... :rolleyes:

[Tom Servo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlFur3zXoAAQX0b.jpg:large

[G'day Mate]

So is that three days of deliberation on the Manafort trial now? Sounds like it's going to be a huge decision. It must be almost impossible for these jurors to avoid news on the matter, and with Trump tweeting and commenting about him and also Mueller's "rigged witch hunt" ... crikey.

[Dicknose]

Anyone see the news about Asia Argento.
Slept with 17 year old actor, in a state with legal age is 18
Worse - she had worked with him and knew him for a number of years and both had described the relationship and mother/son.
Plus she was effectively his boss, offering him movie roles at about this time.
And after she came out about the Weinstein, the actor involved here took her to court and she settled paying him (but California doesn’t have non-disclosure). This was leaked to the news by a third party.

Hope this doesn’t hurt the metoo movement, being one of the initial players in it and now not just being accused but admitting to something quite damaging and it seems to be exactly the behaviour the movement is against.

[FaultyMario]

That story is begging for some video, we need video files of that... and speaking of video, there was, I heard, a recent interview of Noam Chomsky on Democracy Now! where he poignantly dissects the futility of Trump in the overall erosion of American Institutions. (Hint: the damage was there all along, the U.S. can't be an authoritarian figure overseas and expect its society to come unscathed; Trump just threw a massive spotlight on it).

[FaultyMario]

Besides, facts can be incomplete

Not quite sure i understand you there.

Facts are facts. Water is wet, and it falls from the sky when it rains.
How we interpret them is what completes a narrative.
And there are many narratives.

I'm just of the opinion that evidence-based (or factual) narratives are better for solving problems than creedence-based narratives.

Now, the inequality you perceive is that due to the fact that under capitalist systems those who control capital eventually control more capital or is it because under welfare systems those who did not have much capital have been the recipients of some redistributed wealth? (Not you, you; It's an argument!) I mean, both of those are facts. What changes is the interpretation.

In a racist's POV, people of color should have less legitimacy in attaining minor advancements due to welfare policies than rich white men obtaining substantial gains from liberal policies, right? That should explain the grievances that they see as America no longer being Great anymore, and the reason why they should mobilize to MAGA, right? That's perfectly logical, but it is not based on facts, it is based on beliefs; actually, make-believe! Because we have, again, factual evidence that those beliefs were manipulated by multimedia messages that were professionally prepared to sway people into that direction.

Like Chris says, that is because communication consultancies are taking advantage of the lack of critical skills in people's education.

[MR2 Fan]

It's sad because I don't see a lot of other "first world" countries having these kinds of mass delusion problems, or maybe I'm just not aware of it. Is there just a larger number of low IQ people in the U.S. than other places?

[FaultyMario]

I'm sure they are. I think it's because of the massive media business in the US that it is amplified so much there.

The celebrity cult is so pervasive. And Trump is part of that. Somebody said the other day that the way in which all those lawyers and aides are presented in the news cycle is very similar to The Apprentice.

[FaultyMario]

CEO compensation surged in 2017
(https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-surged-in-2017/)

in 2017 the average CEO of the 350 largest firms in the U.S. received $18.9 million in compensation, a 17.6 percent increase over 2016. The typical worker’s compensation remained flat, rising a mere 0.3 percent. The 2017 CEO-to-worker compensation ratio of 312-to-1 was far greater than the 20-to-1 ratio in 1965


Higher CEO pay does not reflect correspondingly higher output or better firm performance. Exorbitant CEO pay therefore means that the fruits of economic growth are not going to ordinary workers.


The data also provide a benchmark of CEO compensation to that of the college-to-high-school wage premium. Since 1979, and particularly since 1989, the increase in the logged CEO pay premium relative to other high-wage earners far exceeded the rise in the college-to-high-school wage premium, which is widely and appropriately considered to have had substantial growth. Mankiw’s claim that top 1 percent pay or top executive pay simply corresponds to the rise in the college-to-high-school wage premium is unfounded.

https://www.epi.org/files/charts/img/152114-19183.png

[Tom Servo]

Michael Cohen has reportedly reached a plea deal with federal prosecutors in the Southern District of New York. No details so far, but one has to imagine he wasn't going to get any plea deal without agreeing to cooperate with investigators.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not quite sure i understand you there.

Facts are facts. Water is wet, and it falls from the sky when it rains.
How we interpret them is what completes a narrative.
And there are many narratives.

I'm just of the opinion that evidence-based (or factual) narratives are better for solving problems than credence-based narratives.


I don't disagree with you. Once we know for a fact that earth is round, there's really no reason to continue to believe in flat earth.

However, there was a time when humans simply do not know the fact that earth is round. With this missing and incomplete fact, what are we to do? Logic and critical thinking skills won't do jack for us. For those who believe you might fall off the edge of earth, they'd simply choose to stay where they are. For those who believe earth is round or for those just believe in exploring, to see what the edge looks like, would be brave enough to try to sail to the edge of earth. So beliefs are not all bad. Face it, even today, humanity still doesn't know everything... and beliefs can help drive us.

Back to politics, Obama ran a successful campaign not just because he's a logical thinker who's fact based, but he also gave us HOPE! Hillary gave us little hope and it was Trump who ended up giving American people false hope...

Look, no amount of education will changed human brain structure. Emotion will trump reason almost every damn time. Fight or flight response is just too basic. When emotions run high, you just can't think straight. Whether God designed us this way on purpose or we evolved this way due to natural selection is irrelevant, fact is that our brain structure ain't gonna change much during our life time. Emotional appeals will win out reasonable appeals most of the time. If democrats cannot learn this lesson and stir up voters' emotions to their advantage in a positive way, they'll keep on losing elections and allow the likes of W and Trump to take over...

(Fact based + positive beliefs/feelings based)approach = MEGA (Make Everything Great Again!)

Really shouldn't have to be one or the other. Both are necessary.

Liberals nowadays tend to look down on beliefs/emotions as inferior compared to facts/reason. Conservatives have the opposite problem of course... but we need both!

[FaultyMario]

Stuff

But... I was just going to... I'm of the bel...

[FaultyMario]

Nothing broken, I suppose.

[FaultyMario]

Michael Cohen has reportedly reached a plea deal with federal prosecutors in the Southern District of New York. No details so far, but one has to imagine he wasn't going to get any plea deal without agreeing to cooperate with investigators.

From Twitter


Imma let you finish, but Robert Mueller had one of the greatest witch hunts of all time

[Cam]

:lol:

[Jason]

Manafort found guilty of various financial crimes, still has another trial coming up in September, related to foreign dealings.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyone see the news about Asia Argento.
Slept with 17 year old actor, in a state with legal age is 18
Worse - she had worked with him and knew him for a number of years and both had described the relationship and mother/son.
Plus she was effectively his boss, offering him movie roles at about this time.
And after she came out about the Weinstein, the actor involved here took her to court and she settled paying him (but California doesn’t have non-disclosure). This was leaked to the news by a third party.

Hope this doesn’t hurt the metoo movement, being one of the initial players in it and now not just being accused but admitting to something quite damaging and it seems to be exactly the behaviour the movement is against.

What she did for sure doesn't excuse what Weinstein has done. Don't think this will damage the movement too much.

Still, am I the only one to think perhaps this is a bit unfair? Surely most teen boys would fantasized about getting sexually assaulted by some horny courgar... and then this boy end up getting paid nearly $400k for having this fantasy come true? Isn't this deal a bit too sweet? ;)

I wonder if the boy were really traumatized... or he just did it because he thought she's a hypocrite. Maybe a bit of both.

[Tom Servo]

Cohen apparently did not agree to cooperate as part of the plea deal. He did, however, disclose that he coordinated with the CEO of a media company on behalf of a federal office candidate at the direction of said candidate, including making payments that were then reimbursed by the candidate, but wouldn't name the candidate.

I think it was Bernie.

[George]

Is there just a larger number of low IQ people in the U.S. than other places?

http://static.tbdcdn.com/uploads/2016/02/19/sub/76061-large-298265.jpeg

[MR2 Fan]

To summarize:

President Trump’s campaign chairman, national security adviser and personal lawyer are now all convicted or admitted felons

[G'day Mate]

I see there's a "partial mistrial" on most of the charges against Manafort. Has the judge given a reason for that?

[Tom Servo]

Jury couldn't come to a unanimous verdict and told the judge they were hopelessly deadlocked would be my guess. Happened in the trial I was on the jury for, we came back with verdicts for two of three counts, but we were split 10-2 on the other one.

In other news, Congressman Duncan Hunter from out here in CA and his wife were indicted for misusing campaign funds. This part of the indictment seems particularly shady.



116) On or about March 20, 2015, when DUNCAN HUNTER told MARGARET HUNTER that he was planning "to buy my Hawaii shorts" but had run out of money, she counseled him to buy the shorts at a golf pro shop so that they could falsely describe the purchase later as "some [golf] balls for the wounded warriors."


Also of note, he's up for re-election this year, and won the primary. Under CA law, the GOP can't replace his name on the ballot without a court order.

[Tom Servo]

Lulz: https://twitter.com/RobertMaguire_/status/1032025744602488832

[Dicknose]

What she did for sure doesn't excuse what Weinstein has done. Don't think this will damage the movement too much.

Still, am I the only one to think perhaps this is a bit unfair? Surely most teen boys would fantasized about getting sexually assaulted by some horny courgar... and then this boy end up getting paid nearly $400k for having this fantasy come true? Isn't this deal a bit too sweet? ;)

I wonder if the boy were really traumatized... or he just did it because he thought she's a hypocrite. Maybe a bit of both.
By having sex with someone who he thought of as a mother figure? No not traumatizing at all.
Someone who also a boss, with the power to help or hurt your career.

And the hypocrite bit can just make any trauma worse. Instead of wondering if they also feel shame, you find out they think it was nothing while accusing others. No issues there.

[FaultyMario]

On December 20, 2015:


@HillaryClinton when you go to prison for defrauding America and perjury, your room and board will be free!

[FaultyMario]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlJoJILUUAArS1n.jpg

[FaultyMario]

“Impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”

Sen. Lindsey Graham, (R) S.C., ca. 1999.

[Tom Servo]

Our "law & order" president just praised Manafort for refusing to cooperate with law enforcement. So there's that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

By having sex with someone who he thought of as a mother figure? No not traumatizing at all.
Someone who also a boss, with the power to help or hurt your career.

And the hypocrite bit can just make any trauma worse. Instead of wondering if they also feel shame, you find out they think it was nothing while accusing others. No issues there.

At least the movement now is more 'equal opportunity', not just about man bosses!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, this thing will probably make Trump supporters not care about Cohen and Manafort.

Missing girl was found killed by an illegal crazy Mexican rapist...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-body-found-rural-area-near-students-hometown-144956162.html

BTW, the illegal dude works for a Republican farmer though, but conservatives probably won't care about that.

A dead white girl will cause a much bigger emotional response than couple of dudes committing campaign and bank fraud. They'll only care about these type of frauds if it were Hillary.

Anyway, such horrible timing. We need proof of Russian collusion... and we need it soon.

Or hopefully we find out this Mexican was actually working for Cohen or Manafort or somebody connected to Trump...

Otherwise we're going to have 2 divided states of americas for a while... sigh...

[G'day Mate]

Dear lord, I've been following the American politics with such interest I didn't even realise the turmoil going on at home! Sounds like we might get another new Prime Minister today :lol:

Background: Since Kevin Rudd was elected in 2007 we've had three elections and, depending on what happens today, five different Prime Ministers ... and that's not counting that Rudd had two turns at it :lol: Our Prime Minister is the leader of the political party that wins office you see, so if that party changes their leader you get a new PM. The office of Prime Minister isn't actually mentioned in our constitution.

[Tom Servo]

So you almost have a guaranteed version of what we have now, a president who's own party controls the house(s) below him/her?

[G'day Mate]

Our "President" is the Queen of Australia

[G'day Mate]

In the meantime ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlQpGa8UUAAR3w9.jpg:large

[Jason]

Whether or not there was collusion doesn't really matter right this second, he admitted on television to campaign finance violations, this after lying about it for months. If this were a Democrat, he'd already be brought up for impeachment. If he were a Democrat, his own party would likely be pushing him out. But, since he's a Republican, nothing matters.

[G'day Mate]

But her emails ...

[mk]

Less dictating systems elect folks to whom they give rights to make laws.
Those elected ones then pick a smaller bunch and give them rights to govern.
Every now and then those elected ones then vote how coverning goes and pick a new smaller bunch if not.

There, in theory, a new prime minister can happen weekly, new elections every 6 months.
Now law against automatically rotating posts eighter.

Against two party system that can be worse.
Here the situation is that single majority includes some opposing ideas almost everytime.
So by the "definition" things wont go forward as they should.
In Sweden it's worse than that, there rejected party is ~1/5.
Not a governing problem if others can stay together, what actually is pretty much a swedish way.

If scale is 1-5, left to right.
IMO, USA is 4, Finland 3, Sweden 2 and local political variations happen inside that number.

[FaultyMario]

"If you look at President Obama, he had a massive campaign violation, but he had a different attorney general and they viewed it a lot differently," Trump said. "So Obama had it, other people have it. Almost everybody that runs for office has campaign violations."

I hope Obama takes the cue and enters stage, that's as a clear a cue as it could ever be.

The Trump show needs a new adversary, we've only had thugs and lowlifes in the last few episodes. I'm of the opinion that the american political scene lacks color; Most of the GOPs talking heads are a shade of washed-up satin-blue and the democrats don't know a combination different from beige and khaki. Mueller is this sort of black and white folk hero but he doesn't say too many lines, he's just there and that's kind of boring. There's not an intellectual commentator with the flamboyance of James Baldwin or a go-to token southern mom that can spice the right's talking points in some earnest way.

Find me some color people, find me a Ruth Bader Ginsburg!!

[FaultyMario]

Just to be clear, I meant Michelle.

[Tom Servo]

And now David Pecker, CEO of American Media Inc (publishers of The National Enquirer, who are rumored to have bought the rights to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal's stories about affairs with Trump and then bury them) has been granted immunity by federal prosecutors and he appears to be flipping on Trump, as well.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/08/donald-trump-national-enquirer-allies-defect-david-pecker-michael-cohen

[FaultyMario]

See, thugs and lowlifes.

What's next? Bannon entering a plea deal with the fashion police?

[Tom Servo]

Trump Boys Frantically Burning Stacks Of Printed-Out Emails To Eliminate Paper Trail (https://politics.theonion.com/trump-boys-frantically-burning-stacks-of-printed-out-em-1828532224)

[drew]

:lol:

[Tom Servo]

Per Associated Press: The National Enquirer kept a safe for documents on hush-money payments and other damaging stories it killed amid its cozy relationship with Donald Trump.

[G'day Mate]

Well, we're definitely about to get a new Prime Minister.

In relation to the USA, one of the front-runners is a woman, and Trump doesn't seem to like women in power.

[G'day Mate]

Scratch that, she has been eliminated. Down to two.

[G'day Mate]

Sco-Mo

[Tom Servo]

Why Trump Supporters Believe He Is Not Corrupt (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/what-trumps-supporters-think-of-corruption/568147/)

[G'day Mate]

That's a good read. Nice length too!

[FaultyMario]

Sounds like you really, really need a media ombudsperson in America.

[Alan P]

Sounds like you really, really need a media ombudsperson in America.

They certainly need one, but they'll never get one unless it goes all the way through the courts to SCOTUS. And with how right leaning that appears to be moving I can't see it ever being put down in law. All the constitution lovers would be up in arms about it because it doesn't fit what they want to say.

Fox News used to be shown in the UK but considering how many times they fell foul of our regulator and that it was a straight simulcast of the US feed, taking zero notice of our broadcasting rules, it was easier to stop broadcasting it than be fined every month.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/fox-news-stops-airing-uk-a-look-at-ofcom-rulings-1033789

[Tom Servo]

Trump Org CFO Allen Weisselberg granted immunity.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/trump-org-cfo-allen-weisselberg-given-immunity-prosecutors-testify-n903566

[FaultyMario]

That reminds me, is Manafort also being investigated with relation to the Trump Foundation by NY State attorneys, because, if convicted, that would put him beyond the safety of a presidential pardon, right?

[Jason]

In other non-Trump news, McCain is no longer seeking treatment for cancer. Basically on his last legs.

[Tom Servo]

That reminds me, is Manafort also being investigated with relation to the Trump Foundation by NY State attorneys, because, if convicted, that would put him beyond the safety of a presidential pardon, right?

Not sure. I know there's another trial coming up, but I thank that's going to be in DC. But yeah, from what I gather if it's a state case rather than federal, the president has no pardoning ability there.

[Jason]

Money laundering, failing to register as a foreign agent, and obstruction of justice are the focus of the DC trial.

[FaultyMario]

In other non-Trump news, McCain is no longer seeking treatment for cancer. Basically on his last legs.

A decent human being in the presidency would have saved the "Paul Manafort is a brave man" message for a more worthy recipient.

[FaultyMario]

Francesca Fiorentini:

You gotta hand it to Jeff Sessions. Not resigning under this much pressure shows just how committed to racism he truly is.

[MR2 Fan]

Stupid is as stupid does sir

https://twitter.com/2020fight/status/1033162713378127873

[Freude am Fahren]

Oh my god, people are trying to say he was coloring a Blue Lives Matter flag.

And at the same time posting fake pictures without the blue, saying it was another country's flag, and also saying it doesn't matter he was just coloring with kids. How can you be so damn blinded, to make yourself look so dumb?