F1 2021

[Rare White Ape]

Good video outlining the subtle rule changes that are coming, which apply to the 2020 chassis that are being carried over to the new season.

Their aim is to decrease downforce and reduce the stresses put on the 2019 spec Pirelli tyres, which are still to be used in 2021.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ6oiu7hYL4&ab_channel=THERACE

[Godson]

Nice and easy to watch video. Thanks for the share

[Rare White Ape]

No worries. It's what I'm here for, I have plenty of time!

[XHawkeye]

A dog on track. Seb singing. Adami in a German performance and Bruno (Seb's dog) in quarantine. What a time to be alive! #BahrainGP #Vettel #Dog #Bruno #TeamRadio #Adami #Ferrari (https://twitter.com/deadlinex/status/1332357686613127170/video/1) <--- Open for audio

[Crazed_Insanity]

New rules make sense. If Mercedes continue to dominate in 2021 then the rest of the field should just quit and go home! :p

[FaultyMario]

New rules make sense. If Mercedes continue to dominate in 2021 then the rest of the field should just quit and go home! :p

They spent most of FP2 getting data out of the 2021 tires.

[JoeW]

Yeah nice video. Was hoping for the new wheels but no big deal. Since the top spots are taken this season Mercedes can use the last few races to test all they want.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoU-1yzXEAMLerF.jpg

[Freude am Fahren]

:lol:

[FaultyMario]

Mazepin might have helped himself out of F1, before he even got there.

Apparently he posted something to his tiktogram account where he is seen sexually assaulting a woman. In the past he has physically attacked colleagues Callum Ilot and Yuki Tsunoda and has threatened to out George Russell. It seems a lot of social media drama ATM but, if this gains traction, I just don't think Liberty and the American team can justify having a millionaire thug tarnish their reputation, the NFL has that niche of sports entertainment all for itself.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Out George Russell? Is he gay?

Speaking of that, have we had any ‘happy’ f1 drivers in the past?

[Rare White Ape]

Billi:

https://thenewswheel.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/crosswalk-girl-red-stop-sign-directing-traffic.jpg

Lets just say that I firmly believe that we shall keep this thread focussed on Formula 1, not driver's private lives unless they impact that driver's ability to compete in a race (see Bertrand Gachot as an example). Mario's post about unconfirmed reports is about as far as I'd go unless it is picked up in the media.

Plus I double-dare anyone to give me mod privileges over this thread. I'd run a lightsaber right through any post that doesn't stay on target.

[FaultyMario]

George Russell? he is fast and young and he belongs to this generation of loyal competitors who can still be polite on track. did you see how he paid back Carlos Sainz a tow in quali?

As to where George puts his penis, the only people who seem to care are imbeciles like that rich kid who is not fast enough to beat him on-track and Nyck de Vries' sister, but that is to be expected, because he has been shagging her.

[Kchrpm]

*reads what the video was* Yeah, if he's some rich Russian kid who can pay the bills, that's not going to make him lose the seat.

[FaultyMario]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0csW5hH9uqo

Yet he didn't apologize to the victim.

What a fucking idiot.

[Kchrpm]

When is the last time a Russian millionaire playboy apologized to a woman for reaching towards her breast? When I hear the stories told by drivers on Dinner With Racers, it doesn't seem like this kind of behavior is unique. They're fit adrenaline junkies, and this guy adds in being rich and likely powerful on a country that as far as I know doesn't care that much about political correctness and respect.

He only feels regret because international marketing teams are telling him to feel regret for reporters and sponsors. He doesn't give a shit.

[Blerpa]

When is the last time a russian apologized to a woman in general or to gays beaten up daily in the streets of Russia?

[Godson]

When have Russians apologized?

[Crazed_Insanity]

"Houston, we have a problem..."

I think we've deviated off course and are no long talking about F-1.

If we have to talk about Russians, who's the fastest F-1 Russian driver ever? Probably Kvyat, right?

[JoeW]

Billi:

https://thenewswheel.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/crosswalk-girl-red-stop-sign-directing-traffic.jpg

Lets just say that I firmly believe that we shall keep this thread focussed on Formula 1, not driver's private lives unless they impact that driver's ability to compete in a race (see Bertrand Gachot as an example). Mario's post about unconfirmed reports is about as far as I'd go unless it is picked up in the media.

Plus I double-dare anyone to give me mod privileges over this thread. I'd run a lightsaber right through any post that doesn't stay on target.

Give me a fucking break. This whole forum is just a bunch of "mostly" like minded individuals. Don't start acting like a fucktard and threaten to censor or ban or get pissed if a thread goes astray.

[Godson]

Have you been in the pitstop lately?

A certain someone continues to drag religion and politics into a discussion that has little to do with either.

He's merely hoping this thread doesn't fall to a similar fate.



Back to the topic at hand.

I am wondering if Haas is using Mazepin for money, to then leverage the Schumacher and Fittipaldi names for advert and income.

Gene ain't no dummy.

[FaultyMario]

I don't know if the person in charge of commercial relations is the same they've had, but after the energy drink fiasco, they really have to rethink their sponsorship model. To me, this Mazepin episode screams: "due diligence".

[Crazed_Insanity]

I just don't understand why there are so few american billionaires interested in F-1.

Elon has zero interests in F-E. I guess Tesla doesn't really need it to prove itself...

Likewise Amazon doesn't really need to advertise on F-1 cars anymore...

If Gene Haas cannot afford to showcase American drivers, I really don't see why he needs to have an F-1 team.

I suppose Haas was almost a successful baby Ferrari team just as Racing Point is now as the baby Mercedes team... too bad Ferrari cheated.

I still like to see an american team succeed, but Haas' reliance on Ferrari makes it difficult. Hope Ferrari can recover soon.

[FaultyMario]

Likewise Amazon doesn't really need to advertise on F-1 cars anymore...

Presented by AWS?


If Gene Haas cannot afford to showcase American drivers, I really don't see why he needs to have an F-1 team.

Because F1 = Engineering and Machining, and he is selling machines for engineers?


I still like to see an american team succeed, but Haas' reliance on Ferrari makes it difficult. Hope Ferrari can recover soon.

Or you could pin your hopes on the other American team.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eo3VuG6XcAEyp-g.jpg

Eerily familiar. (https://www.thenationalnews.com/image/policy:1.381116:1499539688/image/jpeg.jpg)

[Freude am Fahren]

Damn, that's fantastic. Didn't even notice at first. I wonder if it was by design. (Probably)

[FaultyMario]

Yeah, sure, Michael has that recognizable, statuesque look. You could probably throw a toga on him and pass him for a Roman magistrate.

[FaultyMario]

Official entrants list published (https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/status/1337868843646144512?s=09).

1 Aktiengesellschaft, 2 Società per Azioni, 6 Limited, 1 LLC.

Still one American team.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Haas had signed up 2 new drivers? Hope Mick is as good as his dad...

Also wonder who will occupy the empty RB AT seats... I guess Gasly has proven his worth...

[Blerpa]

Also wonder who will occupy the empty RB AT seats... I guess Gasly has proven his worth...

Uh? It's going to be Tsunoda.

[Freude am Fahren]

I wonder if the reason it hasn't been confirmed is they want to put Albon back there if they don't keep him at RB?

[FaultyMario]

I think Horner has said that Albon will be with RB in 2021. He didn't specify if it's going to be race or test driver or ambassador, but the expectation is that he is going to stay in the team.

[JoeW]

I think we are going to see a backslide of RBR without a power unit deal in place. I have a feeling Renault and Ferrari are going to come back strong next year. And with McLaren running Mercedes PU...should be interesting.

Obviously Mercedes will win by as much or more than they did this year...but the battle for the rest will be closer methinks.

[Crazed_Insanity]

With so many restrictions perhaps it doesn’t matter if you’re racing with an year old Honda?

Mclaren should be on course to take over RP’s spot, maybe even challenge Mercedes?

As for the rest, don’t really know enough to speculate. Maybe Ferrari will do well next year because they’ve put Vettel in a 2021 spec car and testing it the whole time? ;)

If Alonso gave Renault another championship, that’d be really cool... and surprising...

[FaultyMario]

Frank Williams admitted to hospital. Condition stable but a "private matter". I hope he recovers, but I'm afraid having to let go of his work of 50 years has taken a toll on his health.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52744b67e4b0782c048b666f/1562774200693-PA95HO05ASX5W55FJ0CH/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kB6N0s8PWtX2k_eW8krg04V7gQa3H7 8H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLf rh8O1z5QPOohDIaIeljMHgDF5CVlOqpeNLcJ80NK65_fV7S1UR WK2DJDpV27WG7FD5VZsfFVodF6E_6KI51EW1dNf095hdyjf10z fCEVHp52s13p8g/Sir+Frank+Williams+and+the+Williams+FW14B.jpg

[FaultyMario]

Uh? It's going to be Tsunoda.

Official now.

[FaultyMario]

https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN28S009

Motor racing-Perez set to replace Albon at Red Bull - reports

[FaultyMario]

"Alex is a valued member of the team and we thought long and hard about this decision,” said team principal Christian Horner. “Having taken our time to evaluate all the relevant data and performances we have decided that Sergio is the right driver to partner Max for 2021 and look forward to welcoming him to Red Bull Racing.

o0o

[JoeW]

Sergio will miss all that powaaaa!

[samoht]

Really happy to see Checo in at RedBull. I'm not a particular fan or anything, but seeing him drive his heart out this year and losing his seat in favour of a kid whose dad bought the team offended my sense of justice. So this news is really heartening and satisfying to see, really well deserved after how well he's driven. It's not just the single victory, he's had many many really strong drives, keeping the tyres alive while pumping in the lap times to come through the field in a manner that makes qualifying almost irrelevant.

I don't think he'll beat Max in a head to head fight, but I do think he'll do a good job with the car, bring strategic pressure to bear on Merc and nab the odd win when circumstances align. Which is what we all want and need in RB's second driver.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If he beats or come close to Max, surely his F1 future should be secured. Otherwise, he’s just delayed his sabbatical for an year! :p

If he could only manage to do what Gasly and Albon have done in that seat, then RB has to take a closer look at WTF is wrong with the 2nd RB car...

[FaultyMario]

Construction at Albert Park must begin in the third week of January in order to have the venue ready for the GP, however, F1 has said they will take a decision to go ahead within the next two weeks. it seems it might get "postponed", with Bahrain becoming the season opener.

it is not clear whether the opening rounds are moved ahead to allow for some calendar reshuffling or if Melbourne is cancelled for the second year in a row, as it could only host the GP in the second half of a tumultuous year.

[Rare White Ape]

I vote that they postpone until they do the flyaways in the back half of the year.

That gives me a chance to recover and get on a plane with my dad like we’d planned for and go watch the race!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Lewis Hamilton is technically unemployed at the moment?

If contract negotiations failed to continue, I suppose George Russell probably will become the biggest beneficiary?

[JoeW]

50mil a year is a big ask. Especially when you can have the driver’s and constructors title again for a quarter of that.

[Blerpa]

"To finish first, first you have to finish".
So, no titles awarded beforehand.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m guess Hamilton is also leveraging himself to keep Mercedes around for 5 more years?

Manufacturers eventually pulling a Honda in times like these is probably understandable...

Is there really a compelling reason for Mercedes to stick around for 5 more years?

I wouldn’t mind seeing Hamilton in Ferrari or RB for 5 more years so we can gauge how fast Charlie and Max really are... ;)

5 more years of Mercedes/Hamilton dominance will truly be boring... to see them fall apart also won’t be very satisfying.... they should just retire soon while they’re ahead.

[FaultyMario]

Think of how many years of publicity Mercedes could get from 150 victories, as they currently need 35. Or imagine if they get the 3 WCCs they need to surpass Williams (9), or if they manage 6 driver's championships more and even it with Ferrari at 15.

None of those look too far off if they can keep Lewis in the team; if He asks 40M and they get 12 wins and another driver's championship it doesn't sound exorbitant.

In 2019, Mercedes sold 2.34 million cars and Ferrari 10 thousand cars. I bet the average owner would not mind to add 17 dollars to their price tag for the privilege of driving the same car as the GOAT.

[Crazed_Insanity]

All true... However, considering IC engines is under threat from electric motors and the current pandemic, can't blame Mercedes for thinking more like Honda... the return for their investment is diminishing and it's very possible that they could stick around for 5 more years and not win!

Besides Mercedes financial considerations, I guess this is probably why Hamilton didn't want to give George Russel another chance in his car... and sabotage his own contract negotiation! ;) Yeah, Bottas sucks, but he still managed a 2nd place finish. George has also demonstrated his abilities to shine... Eventhough that was just a single race, I think it's obvious now that Mercedes doesn't really 'need' Hamilton to succeed. That's probably why Mercedes didn't say yes to $50mil.

So we'll see how much Mercedes is willing to pay for the GOAT!

[JoeW]

I think Mercedes will get those numbers with or without Hamilton. So $50mil is exorbitant.

[Freude am Fahren]

I bet the average owner would not mind to add 17 dollars to their price tag for the privilege of driving the same car as the GOAT.

Hell, put it on the window sticker, and they'll gladly pay $50

[Crazed_Insanity]

Average US owner might not even know who Hamilton is... :p

Anyway, personally, I'm fine either way. I don't mind seeing Hamilton continuing his domination... and I also don't mind seeing him unemployed. The dude has nothing more to prove.

Mercedes may have something to prove... can they still get it done without Hamilton? In all honesty, Mercedes really have not much to prove either. Not sure if they really need 9 or 15 more championships... unless the CEO or the board is obsessed with motor sports, those additional stats really don't mean much at this point. There's really no need to dethrone Williams and Mercedes is not really trying to capture more of Ferrari's market share...

And regardless of the stats, at least Mercedes probably won't ever be able to entice me to buy one of their cars! (Not that I can afford one anyways! :p )

[FaultyMario]

I think Mercedes will get those numbers with or without Hamilton. So $50mil is exorbitant.

Perez is getting a considerable percentage of $9mil for not driving a generic version of the Merc.

[Rare White Ape]

$50 million is an entirely reasonable price to pay for the greatest driver of all time. It's a bargain compared to the previous GOAT, who was on nearly double that at his peak.

(Better than another team paying $25M for someone who hasn't won a championship, amirite?)

Hamilton has every right to negotiate those terms, and he will get it because Mercedes will pay it. I'd dare say that it is already decided that he will get it and it may be some background stuff that is causing the delay and needs to be worked out.

F1 has always been about the haves and the have-nots. It has always been about domination. Never in its history has the racing been as exciting as IndyCar or MotoGP or V8 Supercars or the 1992 British Touring Car Championship. So the way I see it is this:

We are currently witnessing the greatest combination of team and driver that the world has ever seen and will likely see for a few decades to come. It is peak F1. Let's enjoy the spectacle.

[JoeW]

Actually I read that Daimler (or some part of Mercedes) has already said no to $50mil. I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve to ask for it...but I think Mercedes knows they can continue to get 1/2 in WDC and Constructors without him.

Also, the term GOAT should really only apply to his era...not all time. Can we agree?

[Crazed_Insanity]

IMHO, F1 peaked in 1988 with Senna! :p

Senna dominated, but he was never boring like Schumacher or Hamilton...

[FaultyMario]

Also, the term GOAT should really only apply to his era...not all time. Can we agree?

Dude, Hamilton is the greatest driver of all time. He can subjectively rub elbows with any of them in any top 5 list (who could narrow it down to a top 3?, I know!), and going by the numbers he is insuperable. Choose any 10 categories and he's either topping it or slightly behind Ascari, Clark, Fangio, Prost, Schumacher or Senna.

[JoeW]

But you can’t compare numbers of someone who had to heel/toe, no electronic aids, no downforce, no safety...whatever era you want to add...driving in today’s cars is just totally different and you just can’t compare drivers across eras.

[Rare White Ape]

I agree that it’s nearly impossible to compare drivers from different eras. But I think Hamilton’s greatness is above that barrier by a big margin.

To me there’s a top three:
Hamilton
Schumacher
Fangio

And I’m not even particularly a fan of either of those drivers. I choose them because I respect their achievements.

Anyone who’s not in that top three are subject to the era barrier argument.

[FaultyMario]

I don't know, it seems petty to nitpick the guy's achievements.

[Godson]

It's not max V so he won't ever be the GOAT....

[JoeW]

Not nitpicking. Obviously the most accomplished driver of his era. But impossible to say how he would have fared with skinny tires, no seatbelts, no electronics etc.

[Rare White Ape]

Well seeing as how he has consistently outperformed the 19 other current best drivers in the world in what is possibly the most precise and knife-edged sport in the world then it is safe to say that he would do pretty well in cars with minimal grip and minimal safety against the best drivers of the 1950s.

How do you think Fangio would have fared in today's cars?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’d think back in those days, you have to be lucky in order to live to achieve your records...

I suppose modern era too, Hamilton has obviously been very lucky and very good too. Other than JV, not aware of anyone landing a competitive ride as a rookie. If it weren’t for Alonso, surely Hamilton could’ve easily won in his rookie season. His switch to Mercedes happened just at the right time too.

Anyway, I’d bet in the old days, lots of talented drivers died before achieving greatness...

IMHO, greatness is the ability to get the spectators to cheer for you even if you’re currently not the race leader.

My top 3 favorites so far are Senna, Max and Kimi. Charlie boy and George Russell are getting close to replace Kimi for me... ;)

[JoeW]

Well seeing as how he has consistently outperformed the 19 other current best drivers in the world in what is possibly the most precise and knife-edged sport in the world then it is safe to say that he would do pretty well in cars with minimal grip and minimal safety against the best drivers of the 1950s.

How do you think Fangio would have fared in today's cars?

Totally disagree. It takes a totally different mindset to go out with a leather head covering and goggles. Put a millennial in an old car with no safety measures...not going to happen. And your Fangio reference is exactly my point...you simply can’t compare eras. I don’t care how much you love a certain driver...it’s the era that they drove in that defines them.

Your knife edge statement is also proving my point. Let’s look at a simple driving game for example. I drive in a couple of online leagues and we had a new driver who is one of the top guys in Racecar type cars (knife edge, high grip, downforce etc). But that night three of our combos were all low grip street cars. He finished dead last in every race.

I know it’s just a game and no indication of real life but you see my point. I know he’s your hero but all he knows is high grip, high downforce. This is why ex F1 guys don’t go to other series and win everything. Of course he’s great at what he does. But you can’t say best of all time.

It’s the same with other sports as well. Take American Football for example. You can’t say today’s quarterbacks would perform as well 40 years ago under completely different rules and safety equipment.

[Rare White Ape]

Hey man I never put forward any absolutes.

[Kchrpm]

The act of driving now is very different, the actual techniques used are quite different, but the skills are very similar. It's impossible to know for sure how any driver would do had they grown up in a different timeline, learned on different cars and with different techniques. The most we can do is compare how they performed against the competition in their era, and the quality of the competition in their era.

Do I think Hamilton is the greatest of all time? Sure. Would I argue with anyone that disagrees? No. It's unanswerable unless it's a landslide, it doesn't matter, and it's likely anyone that is in the sport for long enough to be in the consideration would respect and revere the others too much to argue for themselves.

[balki]

Why is Prost never in the discussion?

[Freude am Fahren]

https://i.imgur.com/QWphyNN.jpg

I hope he negotiates a new paint job into any future contract talks with other teams.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Why is Prost never in the discussion?

Because Senna had already kicked his ass in the same era and same team.

There’s the problem of record of achievements, he’s a 4 time champ whereas Senna had only 3 titles.

Do you guys only go by stats to determine greatness?

[FaultyMario]

Why is Prost never in the discussion?

cough, cough.


Going by the numbers, [Hamilton] is insuperable. Choose any 10 categories and he's either topping it or slightly behind Ascari, Clark, Fangio, Prost, Schumacher or Senna.

Also, it's funny that Vettel is always left out, sure, he's phoned in a couple of seasons, but, hey! only 2 drivers have more wins than he does.

[Blerpa]

Are you really arguing over the 50 million dollars asked by Hamilton? REALLY?

Two simple matters:


1) Kimi Raikkonen contract with Ferrari from 2007 to 2009. 51 million dollars per year. How many wins and championships did that income provide?

2) This subsequent video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHBN49TtRE0

I rest my case.
Hamilton should ask more.
And Mercedes may or may not concede.
But Russell has proved shit nothing to be able to deliver the same wins and championships Hamilton has delivered so far.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Under 'normal' circumstances, Hamilton definitely should worth way more than that. However, negotiating a longterm contract in such trying times is the main obstacle for him...

I think Mercedes is currently where Williams was... on top of their game. They can hire rookies like JV and win championships.

Frank Williams was pretty stupid to be so ungrateful toward his championship winning drivers; however, I can fully understand if Mercedes wish to save themselves some money at this time...

Such wonderful collaboration really should not end on such a sour note, hope both sides can reach an agreement soon.

In the event Lewis became unemployed and Mercedes loses the championship in 2021, LH shall become the undisputed GOAT! ;)

Even if Mercedes wins again without him, Hamilton's status as GOAT will still remain.

Whatever happens, LH can't lose. He really has nothing to lose and nothing to prove... so I can understand he might as well ask for more money...

I do wonder if he still has the motivation to balance on top of the knife edge for 5 more years at whatever price.

Why not just go year by year?

[Godson]

Totally disagree. It takes a totally different mindset to go out with a leather head covering and goggles. Put a millennial in an old car with no safety measures...not going to happen. And your Fangio reference is exactly my point...you simply can’t compare eras. I don’t care how much you love a certain driver...it’s the era that they drove in that defines them.

Your knife edge statement is also proving my point. Let’s look at a simple driving game for example. I drive in a couple of online leagues and we had a new driver who is one of the top guys in Racecar type cars (knife edge, high grip, downforce etc). But that night three of our combos were all low grip street cars. He finished dead last in every race.

I know it’s just a game and no indication of real life but you see my point. I know he’s your hero but all he knows is high grip, high downforce. This is why ex F1 guys don’t go to other series and win everything. Of course he’s great at what he does. But you can’t say best of all time.

It’s the same with other sports as well. Take American Football for example. You can’t say today’s quarterbacks would perform as well 40 years ago under completely different rules and safety equipment.

Absolute bullshit statement.

Take your generational bullshit somewhere else.

I rode motorcycles, with less protection than even the drivers of the 90s had, and I'm a millennial. I have friends who are younger than I, who ride way more dangerously than even the drivers of the 50s had.

Re: ex F1 drivers don't win everything....

Again, bullshit. Sebastian Bourdain's, Fernando Alonso, are the first two who come to mind who have done extremely well in vastly different scenarios.

Cut the nitpicky bullshit just because you don't like Hamilton.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don't think JoeW is saying Hamilton is a bad driver, and I think he only dislike him because of his primadonna attitude... not because of his driving abilities.

Everyone can drive/ride dangerously, but not everyone could win and create records and live to tell about it.

Lastly, nobody wins everything is not BS. Sebastien Bourdais didn't win any F1 championships and Alonso still hasn't won the indy500 yet. :p

Chill dude. It's just his opinion.

[JoeW]

Billi has it correct.

Sounds like a butt hurt Millennial ;)

Obviously...to intelligent people anyways...it was a generalization. Not sure if you picked up on that...apparently you were so blinded by your millennial rage to know there are exceptions to the generalization.

"Again, bullshit. Sebastian Bourdain's, Fernando Alonso, are the first two who come to mind who have done extremely well in vastly different scenarios."

But where are the championships outside of F1? I am seeing alot of ex F1 drivers going places and running mid pack or worse.

In my mind current F1 drivers are the pinnacle of racing fitness. It is the most demanding racing on the planet. But it is also a very niche car to drive. No other car grips the road like an F1 car. But constant laser focus training in these cars numbs them to the feel of driving low grip cars.

Anyways...I digress. I have continued to say your beloved Hamilton is the greatest driver of his era. I'm sorry I can't say the "GREATEST OF ALL TIIIIIME!". Different times, cultures, societies, economies, technologies etc breed different types of people suited to different tasks. Comparing people across these eras is just ridiculous.

Get it together...I'm never going to say someone is the GOAT...I don't care who he is.

Well...except Dan Marino...greatest passer the world has ever (or will ever) known.

[FaultyMario]

Marino? Pfft, Red Grange would eat him alive!!

[FaultyMario]

That's how stupid your whataboutism sounds.

[JoeW]

How dare you! I have never whatabouted in my entire life!

Red Grange indeed...pfft

[Rare White Ape]

Strong rumours are flying about that claim Davide Brivio is leaving the 2020 championship winning Suzuki MotoGP team to run the Alpine F1 team in 2021.

[FaultyMario]

Cyril has overstayed his welcome. Honest!

[FaultyMario]

Brivio officially out of Suzuki Ecstar.

Budkowski should announce him soon, but needs to be promoted to president of Renault Sport/ Alpine. He is currently director of the F1 division, i think.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErI-4MOXAAwNpLU.jpg

“For the past few years Father Sebastian has been questioning his faith...”

- Sniff Petrol.

[JoeW]

How much bigger of an operation is Alpine F1 from Suzuki MotoGp?

[Rare White Ape]

Massively bigger.

Suzuki is one of the lowest-funded operations in MotoGP, even lower than privateer teams. They won the riders and the teams championship in 2020, and came third in constructors just two points behind Yamaha with half the number of bikes in the field. That they won can be largely attributed to the absence of Honda’s Marc Marquez, but they rose to the top in that power vacuum against stronger competition.

And factor in the market size of MotoGP vs F1, as well as the market in motorcycles against cars in general.

For a privateer team to lease a bike for one year might be €4M… that’s less than a Formula 1 team’s tyre budget.

[JoeW]

So it would be a massive change in responsibility and pressure.

Exciting for him but scary.

[FaultyMario]

Renault do have a history of going for 'inexperienced' managers, Fred Vasseur basically came straight from F3 IIRC.

Also, didn't Budkowski come from the FIA to Renault with insider information?, I remember a big fuzz being made about his hiring.

[Rare White Ape]

I think Brivio will do fine. He was Valentino Rossi's team manager back in his heyday and I believe was one of the main people in convincing Rossi to switch from Honda to Yamaha in 2004. He has got a very impressive resume of achievements in MotoGP.

It'll be the same job, just with a different number of wheels... and heaps more money.

[XHawkeye]

Mat Oxley Brivio’s decision to swap MotoGP for Formula 1 marks the exit of the sport’s most successful team manager (https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/motorcycles/motogp/davide-brivio-the-man-who-made-yamaha-and-suzuki-motogp-kings)

[Rare White Ape]

It hasn't been mentioned here yet, but I just found out that Lewis Hamilton is now Sir Lewis Hamilton.

So there's that.

[FaultyMario]

Cyril has overstayed his welcome. Honest!

And he's out, officially.

also McLaren have one foot in F-E.

[JoeW]

And so it begins...

[FaultyMario]

k-mag linked to Peugeot's hypercar program.

preseason testing moved to Bahrain. T10 work started in BCN, so maybe they lose the preseason but we get a better race?

brutal schedule packs 9 flyaway races in the last 11 weeks:

From Russia to Singapore to Japan. from Austin to Mexico to interlagos. from Melbourne to Saudi Arabia to Abu Dhabi.

[Freude am Fahren]

Also, China replaced with Imola, which will be the only race in April. Race 3 (was 4) still TBC.

[FaultyMario]

And so it begins...

What do you mean? McLaren have both feet in F1, one in Indycar, another in WEC and yet another one in F-E. Personally I don't worry about their relevance in Formula One, they just received a big cash influx, so their situation is better than it was in april of last year when they had to sell (or pawn?) their historic car collection. There was an interview (or maybe a podcast) with Zak Prince where he mentioned his vision for the short term, how it needed to be a strong competitor in F1 in order for them to keep selling overpriced automobiles, but that their excess capacity needed to be put to use in a similar manner to Williams Engineering's services to the industry, which IIRC, never lost Frank any money.

[JoeW]

I was referring to adding credence to FE racing. Which would seem to accelerate FE as a relevant series.

I want F1 to go the entertainment route and bring back V8 or V10 engines and forget this hybrid BS.

I am in total agreement with you. I just don’t want FE to come too fast. McLaren entering would seem to accelerate that.

[Rare White Ape]

FE will never overtake F1.

I’ve said this before in the FE thread: it’s promoter possibly has a long term vision for it to be purchased and subsumed into F1’s roster of racing events. F1 may adopt its technology, but never go fully electric.

And before you worry about FE becoming big, look at who is already competing, and who supplies the batteries.

[JoeW]

I just hope the next big PU rules move away from hybrid and more towards awesomeness.

[Rare White Ape]

You just want more noise and less torque. It also means less technology. F1 has always been about technology. And it has never been exciting.

Although I would argue that small capacity naturally aspirated (noisy) engines used as the compliment to electric PUs would be just fine and dandy in my opinion.

Say, a 2.0L V8, or a 1.6L V12?

25,000 RPM?

Oooh. Suit you, sir.

[Rare White Ape]

But I guess if carbon-neutral biofuels take off then it all changes.

[JoeW]

Exactly

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eroa__qXIAEl4Fa.jpg

I like the new curvy thing, much better than the ruler and scissors "new" T10.

[Rare White Ape]

You’re gonna have to provide more context.

[CudaMan]

At first glance that looks like it will reduce overtaking probability for F1 cars. Is the change for F1, for motorcycles, or... ?

[FaultyMario]

preseason testing moved to Bahrain. T10 work started in BCN, so maybe they lose the preseason but we get a better race?


FIA and FIM have been working on a solution for the turns 10-12 complex for the last few years.

I think the original layout of T10 (like the newest, but bigger) did not leave enough runoff, as turns eleven and twelve are higher on the hill, so it was pretty unsafe for bikes. The first compromise was to tighten turn 10 and make that cut uphill towards turn 11, but as with most straight-sharp turn-straight combinations, both cars and bikes were limited on their approach to turn 12, with basically one racing line from there to the main straight, regardless if the final chicane was used or not.

With this new reshaping, bikes are to get more overtaking options and a bit more safety. Who knows with cars, really... it really depends on how much speed at the chicane T13 is affected.

[FaultyMario]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Formula1_Circuit_Catalunya.svg/1000px-Formula1_Circuit_Catalunya.svg.png

Oldest in dark gray, old in dashed green. New La Caixa corner will slot in between those two, but curvy.

[CudaMan]

The new layout shortens the braking zone for Turn 10, which is going to make overtaking into that corner harder for F1 cars, certainly in 2021. It will be interesting to see how the 2022 cars will race at this notoriously difficult track to pass on.

[FaultyMario]

Brivio confirmed as part of the Alpine racing organization. Position: "TBA".

[JoeW]

Racing Director

[samoht]

Article brushing aside Merc excuses for why Hamilton's still not contracted for this season, saying it's down to a threefold gap over money:

https://www.racefans.net/2021/01/18/why-hasnt-hamilton-signed-a-new-mercedes-deal-yet-theres-a-few-million-reasons/

"Ola Källenius refused to budge above $20 million for driver services simply as the oft-stated objective is for the team to be a profit- and not a cost-centre; Hamilton was then said to be pushing for $60m plus perks"


I think Hamilton has a huge amount to gain by continuing with Merc for another couple of years, a golden opportunity to eclipse Schumacher and take the most championships, clearly ahead as the most successful F1 driver ever.
Equally Mercedes have a huge amount to gain from continuing to employ him; while they'd probably still most likely win the championships this year without him, it would be a lot less certain. More pertinently, Mercedes don't run an F1 team in order to win championships, they do it in order to sell cars, and Hamilton has an unmatched marketing profile and reaches the parts of the market that other drivers can't.

So it's a high stakes negotiation, both sides would be overwhelmingly best off signing even on each others' terms, but both have an incentive to hold out for better. I still believe that he will sign and the Hamilton-Wolff-Mercedes steamroller will forge ahead, flattening all competition for another two to three years.

Still, it's interesting to imagine what might happen if negotiations break down. Would Merc steal a second driver out from their Williams contract to fill a seat at short notice? Or would someone else suddenly discover a break clause in their previously-watertight employment terms? Could Max, Red Bull and Honda finally win over a Lewisless Mercedes?? I suspect we'll never know.

[Crazed_Insanity]

This is actually pretty good drama, I really don't mind either outcome. I actually prefer that they split up so other teams can have better chances... :p

One angle nobody has explored so far is... I wonder if there are still Nazi sympathizers in Mercedes management trying to derail the deal? (since LH has became increasingly vocal about BLM and even had their cars painted black... surely a white supremacist manager might push back when he has the chance?)

Anyway, even if the deal falls apart, I'd love to see Hamilton win a championship driving an inferior car.

[JoeW]

I imagine the rest of the grid is praying that he retires.

[Kchrpm]

I would like it if he came to IndyCar, but I don't expect that to work for anyone financially.

[JoeW]

Ruh roh Ham fans...

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/f1/lewis-hamilton-contract-latest-update-23349944

[Crazed_Insanity]

It will be sad to see them divorce after so many championships...

However, neither truly needs the other to continue their successes though... Maybe Hamilton needs Mercedes more? But who knows... Mercedes can't possibly continue to have the best car on the grid forever...

Hamilton needs to be Max or Charlie boy's teammate and show people who's truly the GOAT!

Or he could comfortably retire... he really has nothing else to prove.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Christian Horner seems to believe Max is the GOAT based on George Russell's performance at Mercedes... never mind that George beat Bottas, but he was able to comfortably qualify on the front row and could've won the race in his 1st attempt! It pretty much showcased how good the car really is... I think that performance most likely also threw a wrench to Hamilton's deal...

But anyway, point is that Horner doesn't believe anyone on the grid could come to RB to replace a COVID stricken Max and do what he does... although Ricciardo could certainly keep Max in check, but Ricciardo wasn't the rookie teammate... Let's see how Perez will do... somehow I don't believe Perez will be able to challenge Max much. Hope he'll do better than Albon and Gasly... otherwise next year will probably be his last.

We really need Max and Hamilton driving the same car in order to do a proper comparison IMHO... I honestly cannot pick which driver is faster... just not enough data to make proper comparison...

JoeW, if those 2 were in the same car next year, which driver will come out ahead in you opinion?

I get the feeling that Max is better than Rosberg... so if Rosberg could beat Hamilton, surely Max will be able to as well. However, Rosberg for sure won't be able to consistently beat Hamilton. Will Max have such consistency? Not sure... he is maturing, but for sure consistency isn't his main strength...

[JoeW]

The world may never know....

https://youtu.be/LZ0epRjfGLw

I do feel Perez will be better, smarter, more consistent and more helpful in car setup than the two previous drivers. I have no doubt he will qualify higher and actually be able to help the team score points and help each other out. So definitely an upgrade. And when Max has an issue or fucks up, Perez will be right there to scoop up those points.

[samoht]

My hope/expectation is that Checo will use his skill at keeping tyres alive to run alternative strategies where possible, such that he laps slower than Max yet still ends up competing for a podium at the flag. If he can do this it'll make races disproportionately more interesting, as we'll have another driver further back with the potential to end up in contention in the final stint, so keeping some tension alive. It won't be possible at all races and only if he can get his head around the RB car characteristics quickly, but it's quite possible and could be really interesting.

The other thing is, he doesn't need to be as quick as Max in qualifying. He won the Sakir GP after being last on lap one. So he has a way of being relevant that doesn't depend on going head to head with his teammate for outright pace.


My take on Max v Lewis is that both are incredibly quick, but Lewis has more experience which leads to him being more effective over a whole championship campaign - Max has never even mounted a serious year-long challenge for the WDC, let alone won one (not that he's had the chance). In the future Max will be as good as Lewis is now. I don't think we can really judge whose peak is highest, and I doubt we'll ever get the chance - I don't think you can extrapolate from the current situation to say what would happen if they were both at their best in equal machinery, given that they're both clearly great.

I still expect that Max will win multiple WDCs in the future, although obviously it depends on him getting into a car capable of that at some point.

[FaultyMario]

my one hope is that Red Bull with fast Max and opportunistic Sergio can force Mercedes into errors. Remember that Daniel, Fernando and Sebastian will be in the vicinity, with fast cars.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, agree with both of you guys..., F1 next season should be a fantastic one! Just wish Covid wasn’t around to mess around...

Pride usually comes before the fall, not really sure which side is more prideful, but surely that’s getting in the way of the Mercedes deal.

[JoeW]

Hamilton would be signed awhile ago if Russell hadn’t driven the car :)

That’s when Mercedes realized they could win it all with or without Hamilton.

[FaultyMario]

Now that I think about it, the problem was that neither Pierre nor Alex were as good as Max in the things that he is good at, and also they weren't better than him in the stuff that he is not good at.

From what has come out in the last few days on the Perez signing, it came down to Horner probing Domenicali about making the engine freeze a feasible proposition that Ferrari would agree to; and if it came down to taking over Honda engines, then Red Bull needed a driver that had a ton of experience with the Mercedes engine. Kind of like how Brendon Hartley is a good asset for any team in categories with hybrid drivetrains, but Perez is also a good racer.

With that said, I also expect both Grosjean and Magnussen to do well next year. Rogro is fast and Kmag is a very complete driver, the series where they're headed to are a good fit to their abilities.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsQi0s7W8AE-0wz.jpg

Oh no I killed this meme @redbullracing (https://twitter.com/theleftyscot/status/1352244079082565634)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsQ_9bIUwAAhx2t.jpg

If @F1 is going to jump in the #berniememe game, they should go all the way (https://twitter.com/AxisOfOversteer/status/1352276259808579585)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Esaj-52W8AAsR8R.jpg

Have a good weekend. #F1 (https://twitter.com/F1_Images/status/1352949043081699328)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hamilton would be signed awhile ago if Russell hadn’t driven the car :)

That’s when Mercedes realized they could win it all with or without Hamilton.

There’s also the possibility that the real GOAT is actually George Russell! :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsQi0s7W8AE-0wz.jpg

Oh no I killed this meme @redbullracing (https://twitter.com/theleftyscot/status/1352244079082565634)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsQ_9bIUwAAhx2t.jpg

If @F1 is going to jump in the #berniememe game, they should go all the way (https://twitter.com/AxisOfOversteer/status/1352276259808579585)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Esaj-52W8AAsR8R.jpg

Have a good weekend. #F1 (https://twitter.com/F1_Images/status/1352949043081699328)

:lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just realized that perhaps the main reason Mercedes didn’t want a multi year contract with Hamilton was because Lewis doesn’t want George as teammate!

If Hamilton is afraid of up and coming talents catching up to him, maybe he should just retire.

I would not like to see George stuck in that Williams for 2 or 3 more years.

Either you race or stay home Lewis!

[JoeW]

Latest Hamilton rumour is that they have agreed on a deal. Apparently Hamilton insisted on a "Verstappen Clause" where Hamilton can veto the team should there be an open slot and Verstappen becomes available. So in effect Hamilton is afraid that if Verstappen becomes available then Mercedes will jump on signing him. Insisting on this clause means he really is quite afraid of having Max on the same team. For one huge obvious reason...and several other reasons ;)

Of course...this is rumour.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, not really sure what’s rumor and what’s true. You can’t expect a huge pay and then prohibit the team to hire young talents, whether it be Max or George...

Of course these rumors could’ve been spread by Mercedes to help get them a better deal? Obviously Mercedes still wants Hamilton, otherwise they would’ve signed George already. I think it should be clear to everyone that Mercedes doesn’t absolutely need Hamilton based on George’s performance...

Anyway, makes me wonder if Senna had lived to near retirement age, would he renew his contracts with such veto power?

[Yobbo NZ]

Senna did at Lotus. I'm sure I posted this a while ago, but he refused to allow Lotus to sign Derek Warwick as he saw him as a threat in the same car.
Unfortunately for Derek, he missed out on a drive that year due to that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Really? I wasn’t aware of that...

He wasn’t afraid of famous fast racers like Prost, but afraid of Warwick? I wonder if there were other personal reasons?

Warwick’s F1 career did not indicate greatness..., but I suppose George Russell’s also won’t be so great if he’s forever stuck in Williams...

[Rare White Ape]

It's not uncommon. Valentino Rossi has dictated his team mates in the past.

I would not be surprised if Verstappen has done the same at Red Bull.

Senna probably didn't have enough pull to oust Prost from McLaren in the 80s. Prost was there way before Senna arrived.

[Blerpa]

Senna did.
Prost did.
Piquet did.
And many others.
It is common practice in F1 since the 70s at least.
Fried air, really.

Also... Warwick was good.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think I started watching F1 around 1988 during Senna’s prime so I haven’t really seen earlier footages of Warwick nor could I find anything good on YouTube..., so I’ll take your word that Warwick was good enough to scare Senna early in his career...

I just find it hard to believe that if he’s not afraid of Prost, why would he be afraid of Warwick?

Of course Prost was the senior teammate, senna had no say... it is kinda apparent the Senna’s subsequent teammates in Mclaren were clear #2s, but I always assumed it’s because Ron Dennis didn’t want a repeat of that fiasco with 2 fast drivers...

But obviously Dennis wasn’t afraid of that arrangement as he tried again with Alonso and Hamilton... so I guess it’s plausible that Senna’s made a deal with Dennis to have a say who’s his next teammate.

If I remembered correctly, Prost originally approved of Senna as teammate? So I guess it’s never easy to determine what these drivers were thinking during the time unless you really know them?

[Yobbo NZ]

Warwick was fast and fearless, but always a case of right team at the wrong time.

[Yobbo NZ]

I just looked up his stats, 147 race starts, 101 retirements.
That's some shit luck right there.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’ve also looked thru YouTube, saw a bunch of his crashes. He out lived senna, so maybe not that unlucky. ;)

A driver that made Senna doubt his God given #1 status? He certainly has raised my interest. If you guys find any video footages of him please post them. So far I didn’t have much luck on YouTube... found a documentary, but haven’t had a chance to look thru that, hope that’ll be interesting.

[FaultyMario]

Hamilton confirmed for 2021 at Mercedes.

One year deal only. According to Wolff, the beyond 2022 details of the contract were delaying negotiations and they chose to keep negotiating those parts with a deal in place for the no-changes season.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow. Finally. 1 year makes sense.

If Verstappen Clause were true, and Hamilton doesn't want these up and coming young talents as teammates, then I suppose a move the RB, Ferrari or Williams later on would be out of question? It'd certainly be cool if he pulls a Kimi and swap with George and drive a Williams to show case his GOAT talent in one of the worst cars on the grid? ;)

Seriously, so if they don't renew his contract after this year, Hamilton will probably retire?

[FaultyMario]

And it’s not only specifically to 2022 but also beyond and that is not something that we wanted to carve out via videoconferencing between Christmas and the end of January

He also said that revenue split and driver-specific clauses "have never been part" of the agreements in the eight years that Hamilton has partnered Mercedes.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So those clauses were indeed just rumors?

So hopefully someday we can see Hamilton dispel those rumors by having George Russel or Charles Leclerc or Max Verstappen as teammates... :D

Seriously, what does he have to lose? If he kicked their asses, he'd be the ultimate GOAT! If he got his ass kicked, surely he won't lose that GOAT status. Fans can understand that age has caught up...

[FaultyMario]

While your B&W sounds entertaining, I would reckon Hamilton's buying some good business advice.

[FaultyMario]

Breaking: Engine freeze approved!

Red Bull lives to fight another day.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Et9Yjw_WQAABc89.jpg

o0o

[Crazed_Insanity]

Creating a powerful and emotive PU? Current engines are definitely not very emotive, wonder what they can do in 2025 to spicy things up? ;)

Anyway, engine freeze could be a double edge sword? If the engine formerly known as Honda and the Ferrari engines failed to catch up to Mercedes engine... does that mean that they will be forever frozen with that power deficit and won't ever be allowed to catch up? So come 2023 or 2024, every team will be running a customer Mercedes engine?

[FaultyMario]

I thought it was more like, "we get Mercedes, your engine is superior, how about we bring in some parity to attract synth-fuel sponsors?"

[FaultyMario]

Fernando Alonso has had a preseason cycling accident and "might be injured", team has announced they're waiting for medical examinations.

La Gazzeta has reported he has possible fractures after being hit by a car near Lugano.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That sucks. Hope he recovers in time.

[FaultyMario]

He's defo going to miss the Bahrain shakedown. That's one month away, and for a guy nearing forty I don't think his bones will heal that fast.

If he's broken his collarbone, which would not be surprising if he was thrown forward off his bike, then maybe he could be out of activity for six weeks before he can begin rehab.

Andrew Benson on Twitter:


Hearing from sources close to Alonso that he has a broken jaw and will be taken to Bern, where there is a specialist unit for such injuries

[Rare White Ape]

Oh for fuck's sake.

Why is it so hard to avoid crashing into bicycles?

[Tom Servo]

Well, it's hard to see them when you're playing games on your giant dash-mounted infotainment system.

[Rare White Ape]

So the ‘TBA’ slot in May is to be filled by another Portuguese GP at Portimao, after last year’s successful race. I’d like to see them go back to Mugello myself but we already have an Italian GP.

Plus F1 is toying with the idea of a Saturday sprint race at some rounds this year to determine grid slots instead of the usual qualifying sessions. No word on the exact format but I will go out and predict that there will be a 10-lap race on light fuel loads and grippy tyres and it will definitely be held at Monza to avoid the slipstreaming quagmire of recent years.

I hope they don’t latch onto the idea of screwing with grid allotment. They also dismissed the idea of reverse grids (thank fuck) and the current three-tier qualifying works reasonably well. The only change I’d make would be to have a one-at-a-time hotlap for the top drivers akin to World Superbikes Superpole or the V8 Supercars Top Ten Shootout.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, I hope they do Monza at least differently than normal. Either entirely single car hot laps like back in the early aughts, or a Qualifying race with the grid for that set by either practice times or a one-lap shootout.

What would be kinda neat would be if they let each team take 2 or 3 hot laps with both cars at once. Only one team/two cars on track at a time. Teams could either choose to alternate so you get each car with a tow lap, or favor a driver to get all the tow for multiple tries. That could spice things up if some teams are better or worse at getting their timing/placing right.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That sounds like fun!

However, one problem with limiting 1 or 2 cars at a time is that track temperatures or perhaps even rain could ruin some drivers qualifying time... Plus, this can just be time consuming. Indy 500 has like a month to prepare, but surely most races don't have such luxury.

Unless we do a virtual online race, it's just impossible to keep the conditions equal/fair to all...

I do like that sprint race idea... let them line up based on their practice session times and then finalize grid positions based on the sprint race result? So if you crash or retire from the sprint race, you start the race from the back? That should mix things up a little...

Lastly, I wish low budget teams with customer engines be waived the engine penalty rule. It's not like they are developing their engines and have unlimited budget, plus surely there'd be a cost/budget hit already by replacing the engines ahead of schedule. Such rules should only be applicable to high budget works teams.

[Rare White Ape]

Here's the car that is going to take McLaren up to third in the Constructor's championship.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.first-look-mclaren-unveil-mercedes-engined-mcl35m-to-be-piloted-by-ricciardo.3lI31KRSSgi8caOdeWbq35.html

https://www.formula1.com/content/dam/fom-website/manual/Misc/2021preseason/McLarenLaunchMCL35M/MCL35M%20Front%203Q.jpg.transform/9col-retina/image.jpg

[Tom Servo]

Wow, Splunk? I haven't used that since I worked at MySpace.

[FaultyMario]

aren't they third already?

[Rare White Ape]

They were last year, and it'll take them up to third this year.

[Crazed_Insanity]

With Ricciardo and Mercedes, beating RB should be doable.

Anyway, hoping for an excitingly close 2021 season.

[balki]

The front-half looks great. The rear-end looks nice.
But, the area between the cockpit and rear wheels looks too long.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, it does look kinda long... but I guess that’s what made that PU so good?

With Mercedes PU and Ricciardo, who knows, maybe they can pose a threat to Hamilton once is a while.

Eager to know if they can do better than RB.

[JoeW]

There is a mention they may have moved the rear axle back a little. And that combined with the narrow floor in the rear may give the illusion of longerness.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I guess that's the only unknown about McLaren, huh?

Everyone else is basically racing last year's car and trying to improve on that... McLaren is the only team making major design changes in order to accommodate a totally different PU. If it works out well, they should easily be able to stay ahead of RP or Aston Martin... if the new combo ended up with issues, then they may end up near the back again? Hope not. Hoping Ricciardo will be near the front more often this coming season...

Anyway, so will Alonso be able to race? Or Nico is going to sub for him for a few races?

[FaultyMario]

I need to find that spreadsheet for updating driver values for the FFFF1League. Who do you think I should add as subs?

Hulk? Albon? Aitken? Ilot? Stoffel?

I think Alpine are going to need one and surely someone is going to catch the virus... maybe the alleged sexual abuser has a rage fit and is suspended for a race or two?

[Rare White Ape]

I think simplest way is to either say tough shit and those drivers score no points, or just award points to those teams for the replacement driver.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I’d agree with the later... temp drivers’ points should just go with the drivers they replacing.

[FaultyMario]

i think keef is going to keep the same rules. i was just wondering if you'd want, apart from the 20 regulars, have three or four bargain bin subs.

[Rare White Ape]

Eh. In my view: honestly, I'm old, and I have too many things to think about (such as how much chocolate Milo is safe to add to my glass before I add my milk?), so it's best to keep it nice and simple.

[Kchrpm]

I don't set the rules, I just implement them. Whatever the group wants, I will try to figure out.

[FaultyMario]

Eh. In my view: honestly, I'm old, and I have too many things to think about (such as how much chocolate Milo is safe to add to my glass before I add my milk?), so it's best to keep it nice and simple.

Yeah, me too. I'm on the IA2OFTS boat as well. It was just a shit and giggles thing.

[FaultyMario]

I'm not sure how much truth there is to it, but apparently outbound rp sponsor Best Water Technology was scared away from a deal with Haas because of the presence of the alleged sexual abuser. They're to be announced as Williams partners.

Also, Haas is rumored to be in talks to be sold to a Russian petrochemicals conglomerate. With the FIA having opposed the sale of Force India, to the same group once, they are known to not want a F1 team to be Mazepown'd.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuLqeZZXIAEhFMi.jpg

[Rare White Ape]

Take that Hamilton fans!

[Rare White Ape]

New somewhat uglier Alpha Tauri livery.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eun6l0FUcAAc1D5?format=jpg&name=medium

[Blerpa]

Why uglier? It looks like a proper racing livery for the first time ever in the team life.
The classic Red Bull liveries (in any kind of motorsport) are akin to Supreme liveries in Forza Horizon 4: stuff for tasteless dorks.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, can’t say it’s gorgeous but don’t think it’s ugly either.

I could be a tasteless dork sometimes though... :p

[Rare White Ape]

Why uglier? It looks like a proper racing livery for the first time ever in the team life.
The classic Red Bull liveries (in any kind of motorsport) are akin to Supreme liveries in Forza Horizon 4: stuff for tasteless dorks.

I prefer last year’s livery is all.

[JoeW]

The colors are too muted and dull to me. So I’m with RWA.

[FaultyMario]

I prefer last year’s livery is all.

It might have to do with hiding the RB16 cowl-to-floor area.

I think last year's livery was very well-received among casual and hardcore fans, but one of the issues with it was the lack of an explanation to the Alpha Tauri brand, so maybe, in order to add the "fashion" bit, they had to re-balance the two-tone paint job, which in turn might have given away too much of the intricacies of the RB rear end. Apparently, Red Bull does the graphic design for both teams from that wooden building adjacent to the Milton Keynes technology center, and the branding team works closely with the technical guys; the matte finnish on the last few cars was all a big team effort. It has even been rumored that Newey has a final say on the livery, because he is always trying to hide the details.

[Rare White Ape]

Hah, interesting if true.

And Blerps, I hope you're not forgetting the Minardi history of the team! They had some of the best liveries in F1 back in the day, peaking in the 90s and 00s with various arrangements of blacks and whites. And who can forget the fantastic looking Telefonica livery in bright yellow? Oof!

Nowadays they have... white wheels. Or is that very pale blue? Eugh.

[Rare White Ape]

Here's a nuther one.

https://media3.speedcafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Alfa-Romeo-1.jpeg

[JoeW]

More blah.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Gee, upon closer examination of the car, I just noticed Alfa logo is a serpent swallowing a person? WTF?

Anyway, as long as it can help Kimi win some points, don’t care what it looks like.

[JoeW]

RBR revealed. Looks like no one is doing anything really different this year aside from Aston presumably. And whoever gets the BWT sponsor.

[Blerpa]

Gee, upon closer examination of the car, I just noticed Alfa logo is a serpent swallowing a person? WTF?

That's "Biscione": it's the heraldic charge of the noble Visconti family (from which comes also the famous film director Luchino Visconti di Modrone)... a sea snake devouring a youngster. Although the meaning has slightly changed through the centuries and Biscione means "Big Biscia" or "Big Grass Snake".
It is one of Milano's symbols, of Alfa Romeo, of Inter Football Club and the originary logo of Canale 5, the first Berlusconi commercial tv channel, as well.

EDIT:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscione

[FaultyMario]

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl/YN1ozl42/s8/red-bull-racing-rb16b-1.jpg

I like both Honda branding decals. Black on Yellow and White on Black.

[FaultyMario]

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl/0oOWVwa0/s8/red-bull-racing-rb16b-rear-det-1.jpg

Although I would have like to see the Claro decal as Red on White, you know, the inversion of the Esso logo.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EusbHKLWYAcPmo8.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EusbHJGWQAA0C6N.jpg

ON THIS DAY - 1966 [2/20/66] TASMAN SERIES, AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Jim Clark took part in the 31st Australian Grand Prix at Lakeside in a Lotus 39. Graham Hill won the race with Clark finishing 3rd, pole man Stewart DNF'd Photo Copyright - Primotipo Thanks for the support!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EutjAhWWQAcbdhS.jpg

67 years ago today [2/21/54], #42 Lee Petty won the 1954 NASCAR Grand National race @ Daytona Beach, #88 Tim Flock got disqualified for solder on one of the screws in the carburetor. Flock was so mad @ NASCAR that he quit driving, but returned in September.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eu5uFHUXAAAXvaQ.jpg

Louis Chiron @ Reims, 1953. Bernard Cahier's photo.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eu44vCBVkAUF0r2.jpg

Patrick Tambay, in the #33 Theodore-Ford TY01, being closely followed by a group of cars during the Grand Prix de Monaco in 1981.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Euvbg47XIAEiWn1.jpg

Innes Ireland @ Monza, 1959. Bernard Cahier's photo.

[Rare White Ape]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EusbHJGWQAA0C6N.jpg

ON THIS DAY - 1966 [2/20/66] TASMAN SERIES, AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Jim Clark took part in the 31st Australian Grand Prix at Lakeside in a Lotus 39. Graham Hill won the race with Clark finishing 3rd, pole man Stewart DNF'd Photo Copyright - Primotipo Thanks for the support!

Immediately upon seeing that image my brain went "Hang on, is that Lakeside?" and it was correct! It is a historic track that thankfully still exists today, but only just. Lap times circa 1 minute in a fast racing car piloted by a driver with massive cags.

[Blerpa]

Totally wrong thread Xhawkeye...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Still mostly F1 pics! Just not 2021! :p


That's "Biscione": it's the heraldic charge of the noble Visconti family (from which comes also the famous film director Luchino Visconti di Modrone)... a sea snake devouring a youngster. Although the meaning has slightly changed through the centuries and Biscione means "Big Biscia" or "Big Grass Snake".
It is one of Milano's symbols, of Alfa Romeo, of Inter Football Club and the originary logo of Canale 5, the first Berlusconi commercial tv channel, as well.

EDIT:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscione

Very interesting! Thanks!

Since we have no Alfa’s here in US for a long time and I never paid much attention to the details of the emblem... until I saw that enlarged version on that F1 car...

I guess I don’t pay enough attention to details... :p

Anyway, really looking forward to this season. Don’t care much about the paint jobs. Hopefully these car will be more evenly matched (with the Mercedes).

[FaultyMario]

I'm not sure how much truth there is to it, but apparently outbound rp sponsor Best Water Technology [was] to be announced as Williams partners.

Aston Martin has announced its livery will retain BWT logos.

[FaultyMario]

2021 is looking like another 2009, in the technical department.

It seems that the new "cut" floor is like another "stacked diffuser" area of opportunity. FWIU, the lack of strakes, ramps and other aero bits ahead of the rear wheels is going to make the underside part of the rear-end have aerodynamic "spills", that is, the space between the track and the car's floor won't be pressure-sealed like it has been in the last few years.

From what ScarbsF1 and other tech bloggers have been posting online the main solution from teams so far is to have a "frontal diffuser" in the area below the mirrors, just in front of the radiator holes. So that air from the frontal area, both streams already conditioned by aero devices (on the front wing and along the nose assembly) and dirty air (caused by the rotation of the tires and the temperature of the brakes), can be channeled a)around the coke bottle to wings at the rear, b)tightly thru the floor and to the the diffuser and, c) away from the rear wheels.

That "frontal diffuser" is made of the nose cape, ramps and delta wings in the bargeboard area and of the shape of the "face" of the sidepods, so whoever gets it right from the get go is going to do a Brawn.

Right now, I'm thinking the 2021 season is an adult actress' holes and Mercedes are all lubed up and ready to go.

[FaultyMario]

So far, Alpha Tauri has not run its new car, the new livery was put on a 2018/2019 car with bits from the 2020 car. Red Bull have shown the R16B but with the whole frontal area from another (others?) car, they have a clever new rear wing and DRS actuator. Alfa Romeo just ran theirs today, so I haven't seen the tech breakdowns. Mclaren have run and shown their new car, but the released pictures were edited. Alpine showed a 2020 car with new colors.

From what the teams have shown and what commentators have noticed on the Mclaren, it is very possible that the high-rake cars are going to suffer more with the 2021 rules, so, Macca and Aston Martin should be up there, fighting RB for podiums.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvKmHwMWgAANPur.jpg

I think this artist's impression does a good job of illustrating all the stuff that makes up the key areas of 2021 aerodynamic development.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvJKcPEXcAEy_9y.jpg

Best pic of the new Alpha Tauri that I could find, not much can be seen of the crucial area, as it's all painted black in there. However the longer, taller, slimmer engine cover gives hints to the ERS configuration of the all-new Honda PU.

[Crazed_Insanity]

2021 is looking like another 2009, in the technical department.

It seems that the new "cut" floor is like another "stacked diffuser" area of opportunity. FWIU, the lack of strakes, ramps and other aero bits ahead of the rear wheels is going to make the underside part of the rear-end have aerodynamic "spills", that is, the space between the track and the car's floor won't be pressure-sealed like it has been in the last few years.

From what ScarbsF1 and other tech bloggers have been posting online the main solution from teams so far is to have a "frontal diffuser" in the area below the mirrors, just in front of the radiator holes. So that air from the frontal area, both streams already conditioned by aero devices (on the front wing and along the nose assembly) and dirty air (caused by the rotation of the tires and the temperature of the brakes), can be channeled a)around the coke bottle to wings at the rear, b)tightly thru the floor and to the the diffuser and, c) away from the rear wheels.

That "frontal diffuser" is made of the nose cape, ramps and delta wings in the bargeboard area and of the shape of the "face" of the sidepods, so whoever gets it right from the get go is going to do a Brawn.

Right now, I'm thinking the 2021 season is an adult actress' holes and Mercedes are all lubed up and ready to go.

Interesting! So I guess if Newey failed to capitalize on the rules this year, RB just might never catch up to Mercedes? ;)

Also hoping Ferrari has found a new way to cheat and go faster? ;) I want to see Charlie boy do well too!

Perez also said that after test driving RB, he could understand why it was hard for all of Max’s previous teammate to get used to it...

He didnt exactly spell out what is it, but I guess the car must be a nervous wreck to drive?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/perez-can-see-why-drivers-struggled-to-adapt-to-red-bull-f1-car/5496189/amp/

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvJBC3WXEAMRd27.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvJBC_cWYAAa3kt.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvJBCtDXMAAsOix.jpg

Here's my drawing expanding on what we see with the Merc split Turbo/MGUH (https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1365225158915596288)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I guess this isn’t company secret anymore since it’s the last year and will be frozen soon?

[FaultyMario]

That's the Turbos / MGUH assembly from the 2015 Mercedes PU.

Old skool for F1.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow, you can tell it’s from 2015!?!?

[FaultyMario]

Wow, you can tell it’s from 2015!?!?

Craig Scarborough (the author of the drawing) said so in another tweet.

[Rare White Ape]

“Filming day”

One car is the 2021 chassis, which is limited to 100km of driving distance on two available filming days for the year. The other is an older chassis, which has no limit on km. Both cars must use a special tyre compound that isn’t used during actual racing. Teams use a portion of the allowable mileage to perform shakedown runs prior to official testing.


https://youtu.be/-CZe_jIdBtc

[FaultyMario]

Don't you just love that Honda sound?

[JoeW]

New Merc looks nice.

[Rare White Ape]

All good don’t post any pictures or nuffin

[JoeW]

Haha...on my phone so it’s difficult. F1.com has your photos :)

[JoeW]

Now the Alpine car is bitchin.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.alpine-reveal-striking-blue-white-and-red-livery-at-2021-f1-season-launch.52MomR0075N0c6ORP3w24.html

The Merc.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.first-look-mercedes-retain-black-livery-as-they-unveil-hamilton-and-bottas.4WeK7XYYLYYxGGWViHMpOb.html

[Crazed_Insanity]

I forgot French flag is red white and blue too? If Team Haas go the same route, they'll have to add some star and stripes to distinguish itself... :D

Mercedes finally has some silver color back. That bit of red on Mercedes made it look a bit weird. Made it look like perhaps Ferrari has gotten on top of it... :p

[FaultyMario]

Sacre bleu!

[JoeW]

Alpine wins best looking award so far...

[FaultyMario]

If Team Haas go the same route, they'll have to add some star and stripes to distinguish itself... :D

It'd be news if Haas ever runs something different from the color of his CNC machines. Plus, I thought that American racing colors were Cunningham stripes on burnt blue.

[FaultyMario]

Alpine wins best looking award so far...

It would if it had kept the Hermes hat symbol.

[Kchrpm]

The Merc car is kind of Tron looking, I dig it.

[Blerpa]

De Vries alongside Vandoorne is Mercedes new reserve driver, at the expense of Gutierrez whom has not anymore enough superlicence points to fill the role.
Kyvat is new reserve driver and tester for Alpine, replacing Sirotkin.

[Rare White Ape]

Alpine wins best looking award so far...

We’ve got AM and a few others to look forward to.

But Ferrari as well. Who knows what THEY have up their sleeve................

[JoeW]

Could it be something....red?

Maybe ALL red would be a big departure from all previous offerings.

[Kchrpm]

Gutierrez whom has not anymore enough superlicence points to fill the role.
I didn't know there were points levels within the super license, I thought you either had it or you didn't. Or is that not a skill/results based thing and just related to being allowed in certain roles?

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvkGK1xWQAEdNjn.jpg

Not my cuppatea.

[FaultyMario]

I didn't know there were points levels within the super license, I thought you either had it or you didn't. Or is that not a skill/results based thing and just related to being allowed in certain roles?

SL points have expiration dates.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvlARcTXcAQKziw.jpg

The finish is a little different in real life compared to the renders from a few days ago.

(This is the most car that has been released thus far).

[Blerpa]

What Mario said!
Also Hulkenberg is closest ever to be announced as another Mercedes reserve driver.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvkGK1xWQAEdNjn.jpg

Not my cuppatea.

I think Aston Martin has forgotten that their emblem isn't round like Mercedes'... should've reshaped that nose a bit and perhaps make a little wing to match your emblem and possibly add a bit more down force or something... ;)

BTW, I can't seem to find any hint of what kind of powerplant it's using. Is it legal to use a Mercedes PU and have absolutely no decals indicating this?

[JoeW]

I am very disappointed in the Aston Martin. Looks just like a Mercedes.

[Rare White Ape]

That's a 2020 car with an AM livery on it.

[JoeW]

I mean the green and black. Was hoping more of a classic green with yellow or something.

[FaultyMario]

Worse! it had a yellow stripe but because of the BWT money, they made their livery into a watermelon thing.

[Rare White Ape]

I mean the green and black. Was hoping more of a classic green with yellow or something.

The green is derived from the DBR1, which they used to win Le Mans in 1959.

https://d2d0b2rxqzh1q5.cloudfront.net/sv/1.67/dir/1a3/image/1a3c42fc2fdb638d281143bc6eb8318b.jpg

[JoeW]

But all the greens together with the black makes it look awfully similar to recent Mercs.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, if they can give tighter racing, I don’t really care what they look like! Good enough... :p

Make the races look good, that’s more important.

[Rare White Ape]

Unlike you heathens I actually post pics of a car under discussion.

Today, the new HAAS livery, with sponsorship by Uralkali, a fertiliser company run by Mazepin's old man.

https://www.formula1.com/content/dam/fom-website/manual/Misc/2021preseason/Haas/LIVERY_UNVEIL_PR_3.jpg.transform/9col-retina/image.jpg

[JoeW]

Much better than previous HAAS.

[JoeW]

Btw I’m not a fan of everyone praising Aston for being “back after 60yrs” when all they did was slap some stickers on someone else’s race car. There is not a single AM part on the car and people are losing their shit about how AM is going racing again.

[Kchrpm]

No wonder they don't give a shit (no pun intended) about him being a little shit (pun intended), his dad's seemingly paying for almost the entire car.

[Rare White Ape]

Who, Mezepin or Stroll ;)

Joe I’m with you there man. It’s still the RP team just with a fresh coat of watermelon (which I happen to like BTW, but the old pink and white was better).

It’s an Aston Martin in name only, and 100% of it is marketing guff.

[Blerpa]

You mean... like Mercedes is half british as well as Alpine and Mclaren is full british and has not a yota of New Zealand heritage in it? Alpha Tauri is half british and half italian? Alfa Romeo Sauber is what? Half italian half swiss (not taking in account Stellantis - FCA origins)? Haas is owned by an US billionaire, sponsored by Russia and designed in Italy? Red Bull is as austrian as I am japanese.
Really, in 2021 are you still rambling about team nationality in F1? LOL. No really, LOL.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvnuVWMWYAAfbID.jpg

In Capitalist Russian, Driver hire teams.

[FaultyMario]

Look, a picture, taken with a camera, by a person.

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/racefansdotnet-21-03-04-16-03-08-3.jpg

Previous images were renders, yes, even the video with Hamilton and Bottas.

[Blerpa]

So far, in my opinion, Haas has the best livery, followed by Alpha Tauri (Sorry not sorry, but it is a really nice clean retro looking simple livery that works) and Alpine.
Then I suppose Mclaren and Aston Martin along with Mercedes.

[FaultyMario]

Ang, was Marelli masterminded by Enzo Ferrari (in his involvement with FIAT) or was it one of the small companies that sprung up and grew around the Italian industrial clusters in the mid-century?

I know they're one of the key partners of Ferrari, like Visteon to FoMoCo, and they've just announced an inverter with 99.5% efficiency.

[Godson]

I have serious reserve about HAAS.


But my voice means fuckall. So.



*Shrug*

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I have to say Haas is my least favorite looking car so far..., but like I said, I don't really care how a race car look, as long as it's fast... then it'll start to look good in my eyes! ;)

[Rare White Ape]

You mean... like Mercedes is half british as well as Alpine and Mclaren is full british and has not a yota of New Zealand heritage in it? Alpha Tauri is half british and half italian? Alfa Romeo Sauber is what? Half italian half swiss (not taking in account Stellantis - FCA origins)? Haas is owned by an US billionaire, sponsored by Russia and designed in Italy? Red Bull is as austrian as I am japanese.
Really, in 2021 are you still rambling about team nationality in F1? LOL. No really, LOL.

Of all of the teams on the grid today, I think only Ferrari, McLaren, Alpha Tauri and Alpine have any claim to extensive heritage.

Ferrari is the obvious one, bring the only continuous team in the field. McLaren, because while it’s had a few owners by now, it’s a very linear path to trace. Alpha Tauri was originally Minardi. And Alpine, because it has a convoluted history dating back to Toleman 40 years ago.

And everything they’re all wrapped in is pure marketing guff.

The main difference with Ferrari is that it the team owns the entry licence, rather than it being owned by the company that owns the team.

[Freude am Fahren]

Heh, takes Russian money to finally make the "American" car Red White and Blue...

[Rare White Ape]

Flying the American flag high

*sheds tear*

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UU7NaE2xNZs/maxresdefault.jpg

[Blerpa]

Ang, was Marelli masterminded by Enzo Ferrari (in his involvement with FIAT) or was it one of the small companies that sprung up and grew around the Italian industrial clusters in the mid-century?

I know they're one of the key partners of Ferrari, like Visteon to FoMoCo, and they've just announced an inverter with 99.5% efficiency.

Marelli started as a joint-venture with FIAT after WWI, in the province of Milan, so way distant from Ferrari's Emilia Romagna.
In the 60s FIAT bought Marelli stock actions, so it was basically the owner, all through the decades till 2019: Calsonic Kansei of Nissan fame have bought the italian manufacturer.

I'd say it is more like Ferrari, as a brand, hovering around FIAT made it natural for the two firms to collaborate... more or less they are among the best in Italy regarding automotive market.
It (Marelli) owns other firms like Weber and Solex.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Flying the American flag high

*sheds tear*

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UU7NaE2xNZs/maxresdefault.jpg

:lol:

My subconscious mind just didn't like the new Haas paint scheme, now I know why!

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvobWkLXUAEzfF9.jpg

If Mazepin gets a seat at Ferrari #F1 (https://twitter.com/f1troll_/status/1367492462982397961)

[Freude am Fahren]

:lol:

[Rare White Ape]

Here’s the livery that will take Williams to a very good looking 2nd-last on the grid ahead of Ferrari.

https://www.formula1.com/content/dam/fom-website/manual/Misc/2021preseason/WilliamsFW43B/10_High34_63_STUDIO_v001-EDIT.jpg.transform/9col/image.jpg