Politics

[Yw-slayer]

Ah, who would have thought that the media would misrepresent a domestic political position/statement to help a political cause and as clickbait!!!! Surely thst only happens in international relations??!! Perish the thought!!!

LOOFFLFLLLL

[neanderthal]

Given that the people she referred to literally tried to invade the capital and stage a coup, I'm still maintaining it wasn't a gaffe. I get what you're saying, but I really feel like the blame is being put in the wrong place here. She was right, full stop.

When I say things like that i'm told to get over it. That she lost, and it was her fault.

[neanderthal]

And dammit, we begged and pleaded and implored people in 2016. We stated "the Supreme Court is on the ballot."


But every single one of her emails was on the ballot. None of whose contents was actual public knowledge. And, rather than acknowlegde that they were hood winked, and smarten the fuck up, you see a lot of "she was a bad candidate!!!" The fuck?!?!? The entirety of everything said about her was fabricated, blown out of proportion, exagerrated, then caricatured into something malevolent.


And here we fucking are!!! I know I voted with godamn sense!!!

[neanderthal]

And dammit, we begged and pleaded and implored people in 2016. We stated "the Supreme Court is on the ballot."


But every single one of her emails was on the ballot. None of which was actual public knowledge. And, rather than acknowlegde that they were hood winked, and smarten the fuck up, you see a lot of "she was a bad candidate!!!" The fuck?!?!? The entirety of everything said about her was fabricated, blown out of proportion, exagerrated, then caricatured into something malevolent.


And here we fucking are!!! I know I voted with godamn sense!!!

Oh, and Florida is poised to pass an abortion law similar to the Texas one.

Remember, wearing a mask is "my body my choice," but forced birth isn't.

[Rare White Ape]

Ah, who would have thought that the media would misrepresent a domestic political position/statement to help a political cause and as clickbait!!!! Surely thst only happens in international relations??!! Perish the thought!!!

LOOFFLFLLLL

I love you.

[JoeW]

This area is a good read sometimes. I should probably check it out more often.

[Yw-slayer]

I love you.

Awwww yeaaahhh

[George]

Remember, wearing a mask is "my body my choice," but forced birth isn't.

This was my exact thought when I saw pictures of protesters outside the administrative offices of our kids' school district protesting the mask requirement for the new school year, which started a couple weeks ago.

Source: https://denver.cbslocal.com/photo-galleries/2021/08/23/parents-and-students-protest-douglas-county-school-districts-mask-mandate/

https://denver.cbslocal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15909806/2021/08/IMG_3116.jpg?w=1024&h=0&crop=1

[Crazed_Insanity]

So the debate really isn't about 'pro-choice'. They only want choice when they want to have a choice... and when they want to mandate others, then they'd mandate others. It's not even about pro-life either. How can one be pro-life and pro-guns at the same time? Jesus most certainly did not promote swords or any other defensive weapons.

Bottomline is pro-free and growing market I think. More unwanted babies in this world will produce more labors and consumers. Both good for the market.
Guns and weapons are also useful to perhaps take over other markets... or be used to defend your market... or you could sell your weapons to both of those 2 markets.
Shutdowns/masks/vaccines are just disruptive to markets..., that's why they throw a fit. I think the angle needed is for them to understand that masks and vaccines will help restore the market as usual... then maybe they'll get onboard?

[Tom Servo]

I guess we know what new paradigm you're now trying to make everything fit into the lens of. I know you moved up near Puyallup, what address should we send the shoehorn housewarming gifts to?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Very generous of you! :p

Anyway, I am really just trying to understand why they think what they think. Obviously they are really more pro-choice than pro-life. They only don't want to give people near the left their choices and they have little respect for life standing on their grounds.

[neanderthal]

Justice Sotomayor's dissent! (https://www.thenation.com/article/society/sotomayor-abortion-dissent/)

[Crazed_Insanity]

See, elections May and should not matter when it comes to these justices… hope they’ll do what it right for the country.

[neanderthal]

If only some people had acted right in 2016, rather than now ... hoping that the clearly partisan justices appointed by the former guy would suddenly develop a conscience to deliver proper justice.

[Jason]

The fact that the left has to depend on Justice fucking Roberts is just insane, and depressing.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Justices are suppose to be nonpartisan.

I think it is insane that we need to have to worry about who nominates our justices.

We really should try to weed out hyper political judges in the lower courts so that politically biased presidents can only have sane pool of judges to pick from…

[neanderthal]

Justices are suppose to be nonpartisan.

I think it is insane that we need to have to worry about who nominates our justices.

We really should try to weed out hyper political judges in the lower courts so that politically biased presidents can only have sane pool of judges to pick from…

And politicians are supposed to work in the best interests of the community.

Jesus, you're a whole unexplored level of stupid.

[2ndMoparMan]

And politicians are supposed to work in the best interests of the community.

Jesus, you're a whole unexplored level of stupid.

You're just figuring this out?

[Crazed_Insanity]

If the assumption that politicians will act in the best interests of the community, then we probably would not set up check and balances. We should just trust them!

I vote for the candidate I want. Not going to be pressured by partisan politics. If a party cannot win votes and gain power and control, it’s on the party. You can blame Billi or all the dumb deplorables all you want. Won’t change the fact that DNC doesn’t know how to hold on to power! It is definitely better than GOP, but it’s obviously unable to unite and get things done for whatever reasons.

[Cam]

I think Elon Musk is a known slave driver and works his workers hard...
Our very own retsmah (he does not visit here much) worked at SpaceX for a while. If I understood correctly, he found a job elsewhere because Musk is demanding of his employees.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, I’ve heard that from pretty much every former SpaceX employees.

If you don’t do what he expects you to do, he’ll fire you and find someone to replace you or replace you himself. Yes, if your job is critical to his company, he will figure out a way to do your job.

Is this the fault of capitalism? I think not.

[Tom Servo]

I 100% guarantee he's not replacing anyone himself.

But to some extent - yes, it is the fault of capitalism. It's that you're only useful as a human being if you can help the company's bottom line, otherwise you're fired. You're not a human, you're an expendable cog that Musk will discard if the cog suddenly isn't capable of whatever he may expect of it at any given moment. I think that's kinda the heart of capitalism.

[neanderthal]

I 100% guarantee he's not replacing anyone himself.

But to some extent - yes, it is the fault of capitalism. It's that you're only useful as a human being if you can help the company's bottom line, otherwise you're fired. You're not a human, you're an expendable cog that Musk will discard if the cog suddenly isn't capable of whatever he may expect of it at any given moment. I think that's kinda the heart of capitalism.

billi is pro worker. Until he isn't. Which is one thought away from when he was.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, I’m also prolife and prochoice!

I don’t understand why billionaires and workers making living wages have to be mutually exclusive. Pro something doesn’t mean we must also be against something else.

There are people who are just very conscientious or industrious, such personality may be good trait for a capitalistic society, but it’s not a product of capitalism.

Fly is attracted to shit, just as musk is attracted to US capitalism, but fly didn’t make that pile of shit nor did the shit give birth to the fly just as it wasn’t US capitalism that gave musk his personality trait.

Workaholics may be able to become the richest dude on earth, but he’s likely not a very good husband nor father. Dude could sleep in his factory… his work life balance is completely out of whack, and he expects others to be like him. He’s not exploiting his workers so he can enjoy life, he just thought that is ‘normal’ to work hard.

I think a lot of his employees put up with it because of shared dreams and visions, but most people will likely burn out sooner or later…

Tesla and SpaceX are usually late to their original promises, but they’re still way ahead of their competitors because of such work culture.

I really think Musk companies are motivated by more than just monetary profits. It’s the dreams and visions along with the stock options that kept them going… ;)

Personally I’d like to have more Elon musks than Warren Buffets because Elon is the more productive one. Unfortunately, most billionaires are probably more like Jeff Epstein and consequently gave capitalism a bad rap.

[neanderthal]

If the assumption that politicians will act in the best interests of the community, then we probably would not set up check and balances. We should just trust them!

I vote for the candidate I want. Not going to be pressured by partisan politics. If a party cannot win votes and gain power and control, it’s on the party. You can blame Billi or all the dumb deplorables all you want. Won’t change the fact that DNC doesn’t know how to hold on to power! It is definitely better than GOP, but it’s obviously unable to unite and get things done for whatever reasons.

Why don't you just print up every single one of her emails and console yourself with that? You didn't give a single. solitary. fuck. about the Supreme Court when it mattered and now you're joining the hordes of "why don't they do something" without a single lick of introspection.

Hindsight is supposed to be 20/ 20; you literally have the ability to look back and see things that have happened with greater context and insight. You can should be able to see how that election, which led to the former guy, led to Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barret- Coney. Which should then point directly at this precipice, this point of inflection. It's literally a trail of breadcrumbs leading directly to the here and now. It's a matter of connecting the dots given, which you have the ability to look back on, with clarity, and reflect.

However, with all your defensive posturing, and your taking none of the blame for being part of it, I can clearly see that your hindsight, is, ... basically, fucking blind.

You couldn't vote for the Democrat when it mattered, you don't get to say what they should be doing.

[neanderthal]

In the real world, California was a solidly red state until Pete Wilson passed proposition 187. Latino and other minority groups rose up and organised, non voters started voting, and California has been a blue state since that tipping point. Hopefully this is that inflection point for Texas.


But white women will side with their proximity to white male power over their sisters, so, ... we will see what happens.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You’ve been blaming me since the beginning. I just thought it’s kinda funny that I have so much power in me. However I’m sad that I’m not powerful enough to make Bernie win. Anyway, it’s not really about the emails. The same ‘smears’ Obama used against her was the same reason why she lost to trump. I didn’t like both candidates so I voted for neither and that’s that.

Anyway, I’m glad Biden has some Bernie in him. However have you noticed when Biden does what Bernie would do, particularly about this forever war thing, ‘they’ will some how make him look as incompetent as Bernie?

Lastly, Hillary lost out to Obama 8 years ago. What has changed during that 8 year which made her better equipped to defeat Obama if they were to run against each other again? I’d bet Obama would be able to beat her again in that imaginary contest.

If Bernie doesn’t exist, or if DNC made it look like Bernie will become the next in line after Hillary, then maybe I would’ve voted for her. However, at the moment it looks like DNC would rather inch right than to inch progressively left…

There’s also no guarantee that Hillary nominated justices will be confirmed.

There are a lot of ifs after I voted for the lesser evil. So I might as well just follow my heart and not vote for any of them… hoping that these parties will learn their lessons to stop feeding us the lesser of the 2 evils.

Put good candidates on ballots and make voters job easier please! It makes little sense to put lousy candidates on ballots and then blame voters for being apathetic. If whenever you can't find ambitious charismatic candidates like Bill Clinton and Obama... then the best you can offer us are boring lesser of the 2 evil candidates... no wonder GOP kept on winning. GOP knows how to stir emotions to win. DNC needs to pick up on that..., but of course hopefully stir emotions in a good way. Boring centrists are only good when we have a scary pandemic on our hands.

[Tom Servo]

Tesla and SpaceX are usually late to their original promises, but they’re still way ahead of their competitors because of such work culture.

You could also say that the south was built in record time and at record low cost because of the work culture of slavery. Unfettered capitalism basically considers this the correct thing, that that work culture is "good" despite the burnout, or firing people because they can't meet whatever demand the boss happens to dream up.


I really think Musk companies are motivated by more than just monetary profits. It’s the dreams and visions along with the stock options that kept them going…

That is because, and I say this with love, you are very gullible.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I am definitely very gullible at times for sure, but it’s good to know that Jesus loves you too! :p

Anyway, the kind of capitalism I approve of is the kind that would pay its workers fair living wages.

Workers accepting a position at Tesla or SpaceX surely weren’t paid low wages. If they felt Musk is exploiting them, they’re also free to find jobs elsewhere. Musk the slave driver doesn’t really own them. When he has driven every one of his employees away, then maybe he’ll learn to change? For now, who are we to tell him how to run his companies?

Wonder if retsmah has anything to say about this? Was the work environment similar to working in the South?

[neanderthal]

I am definitely very gullible at times for sure, but it’s good to know that Jesus loves you too! :p

Anyway, the kind of capitalism I approve of is the kind that would pay its workers fair living wages.

Workers accepting a position at Tesla or SpaceX surely weren’t paid low wages. If they felt Musk is exploiting them, they’re also free to find jobs elsewhere. Musk the slave driver doesn’t really own them. When he has driven every one of his employees away, then maybe he’ll learn to change? For now, who are we to tell him how to run his companies?

Wonder if retsmah has anything to say about this? Was the work environment similar to working in the South?

So, long story short: it's ok to abuse your workers as long as you pay a fair living wage. Noted!


billi is pro worker. Until he isn't. Which is one thought away from when he was.

Oh, look. I made an observation.

[Crazed_Insanity]

There’s a fine line between abusing employees and expecting high performing employees.

Certainly not all cars are high performing cars, and naturally not all cars can be driven as such. Pushing and expecting a Civic to perform like a Ferrari is probably abuse but perhaps a high performer could handle Elon Musk as a driver just fine. So if Elon managed to hire a bunch of high performers and let the lowered performers be wash out or just leave voluntarily… no wonder he’s able to get ahead of his competition.

However, if Elon is truly being unrealistic and abusing people, then Tesla and SpaceX burning out will just be a matter of time.

We’ll just have to wait and see.

The thing that’s easiest to see is wage. If employees are not even making living wages, that’s clearly abuse. Next would be hours. If employees must stay in the factory and sleep with him on the factory floor, that’s also clearly abuse!

All the other stuffs, it should be between him and his employees, right? Just because you think it’s abuse doesn’t make it so. Just as just because you think Hillary should win, doesn’t mean everyone else agrees with you.

When you start your own company, then you can decide what kind of boss you want to be. As long as there’s fair wage, reasonable hours and Elon not hitting on the employees, why should we interfere?

Just out of curiosity, how would you guys interfere? Government intervention? Boycott his products? Tesla sure, but how do you plan on boycotting SpaceX?

You guys don’t think there are other scummier billionaires to worry about?

[edit]
btw, after rereading my post, I just want to clarify that I'm not implying retsmah is a low performer! :p I'm probably not high performing enough too considering how many posts I can make on this forum on a daily basis... ;) Seriously, I have a friend/colleague who I thought is an amazing performer at our company... he makes more money than me and I do believe he's worth the company's every penny. He applied to SpaceX and got rejected. I think mainly due to the reason that he requested to be able to work more from home in order to avoid traffic... So anyway, yeah, SpaceX is pretty selective at picking their 'slaves'. I've never applied there, but after seeing what happened to my friend, my chances of working at SpaceX is probably not high either. Especially considering now that I've moved away. :p
Oh, I have another older colleague, expert in composites. He got hired by Elon, but as soon as Elon decided to build steel starships, this old colleague of mine got let go. Luckily he's already at retirement age. He wanted to do something special with SpaceX at the twilight of his career, too bad that didn't work out. However, that's not capitalism's fault, right?

Anyway, I just think it's important to make sure we all enjoy the same equal fundamental rights. We shouldn't allow fellow human beings to fall thru the crack by living under poverty. However, no need to strive for 'equality' by dragging all billionaires down to the same level as the rest of us. We just need to make sure they're not doing anything illegal and pay their fair share of taxes too. As long as they are making an 'honest' living, like I said, I don't see any problems with trillionaires. Not all cars are equal. Similarly, not everyone is equal. Capitalism simply allows higher performing folks with better fortunes to be able to get further ahead than the rest of us. Same goes with IQ as well. We are all born with different IQs, not equal IQs, all decided by luck or God. People with higher IQs will have better chance as succeeding. No need to make it harder for them to succeed further just because rest of us are too dumb to catch up. OTOH, society needs to take care of people with lower IQs... and don't view them as useless deplorables. I really don't see socialism as means for 'production'... it's just not realistic for everyone to be the boss of a company. We can at most be the bosses of our own lives and grow that way. Capitalism is really good for collective growth, as demonstrated by China. Socialism is good for collective careing for those who need a helping hand, as demonstrated by all the socialistic nations during an pandemic. I think we can have the best of both worlds. As much as I hate the CCP, I do believe China is probably utilizing both capitalism and socialism the most... I just wish China could have less totalitarianism... or at least be a 'nicer' totalitarian. Rather than constantly threatening Taiwan by force, show Taiwanese why it's so good to be part of China again... The day Dalai Lama feels safe to return home to Tibet is the day China will truly be great again. USA will definitely lose it's place as a global superpower then.

[FaultyMario]

Crikey! (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/11/declassified-documents-show-australia-assisted-cia-in-coup-against-chiles-salvador-allende)

[Tom Servo]

Looks like we've dodged a bullet, everyone's calling it for "no" on the recall in CA. Current state is 61% of the expected votes counted, "no" is leading 66.8% to 33.2%, LA Times, AP, and CNN have all called it. Getting reasonably close to the point where it's mathematically impossible for "yes" to catch back up.

Larry Elder was getting > 40% of the vote for replacement. The state really needs to reform its recall system, pronto.

[neanderthal]

Looks like we've dodged a bullet, everyone's calling it for "no" on the recall in CA. Current state is 61% of the expected votes counted, "no" is leading 66.8% to 33.2%, LA Times, AP, and CNN have all called it. Getting reasonably close to the point where it's mathematically impossible for "yes" to catch back up.

Larry Elder was getting > 40% of the vote for replacement. The state really needs to reform its recall system, pronto.

A strong rebuke of the republiQans by California voters. Proud of my home state.

[Crazed_Insanity]

CA's recall process is a bit scary. If more than 50% are unhappy enough with you, you can get recalled midterm... and then be replaced by one of 50 some odd guys on the list... and all it takes is one winner, regardless of how low of a percentage, to win.

Could've easily elected another Trump into office.

Governors won't be in office for life guys. If the guy sucks, make sure you get rid of him next term. No need to waste resources trying to remove the guy and then replace him with who knows how even more awful...

I think people are not happy with how the dems and running CA, but for sure they don't want GQP running CA either. Not sure if I can be proud of CA, but I'm glad CA's general population is still sane and sensible.

[sandydandy]

In the news today it was revealed that the General of the Joint Chiefs or whatever went behind Trump's back after the events of January 6th, and conspired with other generals to take away his ability to launch nukes. Trump crying treason. Maybe it is treason, but I say taking lethal power out of the hands of a guy not in full control of his faculties can't ever be a bad thing. It's like Jaime Lannister stabbing the Mad King in the back before he could torch all of King's Landing. Not a bad thing at all.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes.

However, I wish we could have a safety mechanism in place that could prevent a guy like that from becoming president in the 1st place... at the very minimum, we need to have something in place to make sure he can't run again.

Even if we couldn't convict the guy during impeachments and Jan 6 thing... a simply tax return disclosure and conflict of interests requirements should make it much more difficult for somebody like Trump to run. If you want to keep your taxes private, then don't be a public servant. If you have more important business interests that you want to keep, don't become a public servant.

I think other congressfolks don't want to make this into actual laws because they themselves probably have something to hide as well... pretty pathetic. Now that Trump has broken 'tradition', wonder if more future candidates will become more like him...

Seriously, we need better 'filters' so that we don't end up with crappy candidates on the ballots in the 1st place.

Yes, the mass can be stupid, so maybe democracy isn't the best thing..., but if we don't have good choices for stupid people to choose from, what do we expect? (For Neanderthal, Hillary isn't bad I suppose, but she has simply lost people's trust. At least my trust.)

I'd rather not rely on those generals. Those generals are typically the ones who'd love to engage in forever wars. However, at least they are more sensible than Trump I guess.

[21Kid]

Larry Elder was getting > 40% of the vote for replacement. The state really needs to reform its recall system, pronto.Most people didn't even make a replacement selection.

No one(blank) 44.7%
Larry Elder 26.0%
Kevin #1 5.4%
Kevin #2 4.8%

So, if Newsome lost. The person with barely over 25%would have represented the entire state.

[FaultyMario]

Scary.

I think any recall should be a 2-step process. 1: Constituents remove of executive from office, 2: Legislature or Judiciary appoints temporary executive with powers limited to organizing a special election.

[Crazed_Insanity]

To me, it seems that the conservative South still haven't learned their lessons post civil war...

It continues to be about defying federal government's over reach and personal freedom... Hey, I'm all about personal freedom and preventing the federal government from becoming a dictator, but can't you have some sympathy for other people's freedom? Are you sure God doesn't see black people as humans? Are you really sure God thinks your kind of slavery is okay? Are you sure God has given you sufficiently strong immune system that you won't end up crowding the hospitals?

I really think dems should forget about mandates. Just give people the get out of masks and vaccine cards... and also at the back of the card, clearly state that if they got infected by Covid, they will NOT be accepted in hospitals so that our hospitals won't be strained so much that other people who are sick need to delay their procedures...

All the vaccines that americans don't want, distribute to the rest of the world.

Just like God's salvation. Give only to those who wants it. If people don't want it, no need to shove it down their throats. Just accept that we will continue to have variants and this will become the new flu... we'll just be regularly getting shots from now on. Those who are vulnerable and stupid will just die I guess.

[Tom Servo]

Yep, exactly why we need to change the way we do recall elections here. Either have the lt. gov take over if the recall succeeds (just like if the governor had resigned/died/whatever), or have it be two separate elections, one to decide the recall and, if that succeeds, another one after it to choose a replacement.

I'm actually surprised that Elder did as well as he did, I expected a stronger showing from Faulconer.

[mk]

I read that few months ago recall was tight and then Elder changed the game.

[Tom Servo]

It went back and forth. When the recall was first announced, it was a given that it'd get demolished. Then Elder showed up and fired up the Trump MAGAt base, and suddenly it looked like there was a chance, especially given that turnout was expected to be very low and it was mostly the MAGAts that were fired up and would actually vote.

Problem is, he fired up the democratic base as well, because Elder taking over, even for a year, would potentially have been catastrophic. I think most of us don't love Newsom (I think he's okay, but for a career politician he does some truly stupid shit that you'd expect him to know not to do), but I also think most of us know that he's done a reasonably decent job of handling the pandemic and that part of that means doing unpopular things.

[Crazed_Insanity]

MAGAt base... :lol:

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9QU5fHVgAEnNeX.jpg

This is what $15B in taxpayer money looks like when the budget is operated against basic scientific principles.

That's the WonderWall near the San Bernardino National Wildlife Refuge, Arizona after storm season.

[Rare White Ape]

Was: the vaunted wall

Is now: the vaulted wall

[FaultyMario]

Yeah, well, maybe a Saudi Spy did help two 9/11 hijackers get set up (https://www.propublica.org/article/9-11-investigation-saudi-connections-operation-encore-fbi) in 2000... it's taken the FBI 20 years and we're still not sure.

TL;DR - The Kingdom did it.

[sandydandy]

Tomorrow is Election Day in Canada…yet again. Last one was two years ago, where Justin Trudeau won a minority government but lost the popular vote. This time he’s trying to form a majority government, which is self-serving. If he was facing a no-confidence vote from a coalition then it would be different, and would justify calling an election. This is being done purely to expand his power, and it’s a gamble because the polls are showing it to be a tight race.

His Conservative challenger is a guy named Erin O’Toole, who I prefer to call Stool, because that’s more or less what comes out of his mouth. “Take back Canada” is his slogan…eerily similar to MAGA, and certain to plant the same toxic seeds in our clean soil that have already poisoned America.

I’ve been a Conservative voter for most of my adult life, but there’s no way in hell I’m voting for this piece of shit. Just like the guy who came before him, Andrew Scheer, I have no intention of furthering the social conservative agenda, and will likely vote Liberal again.

Trudeau hasn’t impacted my life negatively in the six years he’s been Prime Minister, so he’s the safe vote. Go with what you know. His financial relief for people and businesses during the pandemic is a plus too. Maybe he’s been too generous, but probably a lot better than what it would’ve been under Conservative leadership.

So take back Canada? No thanks, Stool. How about you idiots take back the Conservative party and install a leader actually worth voting for. Someone like Stephen Harper, who was (mostly) great.

As mentioned earlier, it’s a tight race and could go either way. One thing that is for certain is it’ll be another minority government, making this whole thing is a giant waste of time and money.

[Tom Servo]

Wow, Take Back Canada sounds like even less thinly veiled xenophobia than "Make America Great Again"

[sandydandy]

He's following the successful Trump model of appealing to the lowest and most hateful, and using them to create a base. Hopefully his efforts get snuffed out tomorrow. Trudeau is not perfect, (actually far from it...he's quite idiotic himself), but a lot of people still like him, especially in the densely populated areas where he'll collect most of his votes. Western Canada hates Trudeau the most and will likely go Conservative just because, and all rural areas across the country will go Conservative as well, which is similar to the US. It'll be a close race.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think every nation is going thru similar split, other than China. :lol:

At least for America, silver lining of Covid is causing Trump to lose reelection.

Good luck Canada. May common sense be with you, which ever side takes control.

[neanderthal]

An abomination of a presidency, at. every. stage., right from the first Muslim ban to the stop the steal rally on Jan 6, and the resident "progressive" says the only thing that knocked Trump out was his handling of COVID.

Clearly you weren't paying attention for four fucking years.

But, then again, that's par for you. Busy whining about the Democrats I guess.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Right and left continued to look at each other as abominations… trump was a fucking pussy grabber from the start and that did not prevent him from getting elected!!!

Why? Because Billi? Yeah, sure.

If a party that cannot put someone on ballot that can beat a pussygrabber, that party deserves to lose.

8 years later, Hillary became more popular?

Need to look forward dude! No point dwelling on milk already spelled.

I seriously believe that pussy grabber would’ve won again if it weren’t for Covid. People yearned for normalcy and Biden fit the bill.

[neanderthal]

AOC wore an expensive dress, that said in red "tax the rich" but the designer of that dress owes $100000 in back taxes.

Let that sink in. Unaware and loud. Like someone else we know.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Since my communication skills ain’t very good, I’ll let my words be few…


“It’s truly maddening to watch people on the left and right attack AOC for being at the Met Gala,” tweeted bestselling author Frederick Joseph. “She is doing what she can to help change a very broken world and system. Let her enjoy her life. The purity nonsense from people who oftentimes are doing nothing is insufferable.”

“Everyone is talking about ‘Tax The Rich’ because of AOC’s stunt at a gala full of the people she was targeting, where she was invited for free in a free dress… to back up her actual legitimate work on this issue in Congress,” wrote actor Jameela Jamil, “and you’re all angry/confused as to why she did it?”
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2021-09-14/met-gala-2021-aoc-tax-the-rich-dress?_amp=true

[sandydandy]

At first I didn't really understand the controversy about AOC and her dress, but I think I'm starting to.

Reminds me of something I saw on CNN before a Bernie rally (I think) where a woman was being interviewed and complained about being poor, yet at the same time carrying an $800 Louis Vuitton clutch bag on her shoulder.

[Crazed_Insanity]

It's a fancy Gala for the rich. The only way somebody like AOC could 'legitimately' attend such a fancy event is probably to do what she did. Attending for free in a free dress and then add that message on that dress.

It would not make sense to attend such an event in a cheap knock off designer dress. Or to actually spend the money in preparation for that fancy event.

That was probably also a way for the 'establishment' to seduce her into the dark side of the force... slowly turning her into another Nancy Pelosi... When you're really used to this fancy life style... she won't be as effective. Her voice will also become softer...

Anyway, pretty sure the event organizer or whoever thought it was a good idea to invite her for free regretted the move. She was a thorn to every attendee there probably... making everyone there annoyed...

AOC will probably eventually succumb to the dark side of the force... or be crucified if she continues on her mission like this.

I do hope she will be more effective than Bernie at transforming our political system.

I think it should be obvious that pragmatism hasn't changed the system much. Things are only getting worse.

Of course the easeist person to blame for all the failures would be to blame it on Billi, but I believe Billi Vanilli would blame it all on the rain!!! :lol:

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, I'm not sure I see the controversy here. It's not like she hasn't been advocating for increasing taxes on the wealthy, it's pretty on-brand.

[MR2 Fan]

At first I didn't really understand the controversy about AOC and her dress, but I think I'm starting to.

Reminds me of something I saw on CNN before a Bernie rally (I think) where a woman was being interviewed and complained about being poor, yet at the same time carrying an $800 Louis Vuitton clutch bag on her shoulder.

maybe it was a Vouis Luitton bag (fake)

The problem is, anytime someone makes any kind of statement, the "other side", typically right-wingers, will find ANY possible way to take shots at it to make it seem bad to their brainwashed supporters. There's no middle ground or ability to discuss things properly. I'm reminded of Jon Stewart who summed it up brilliantly when he was on Crossfire many years ago



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE

Tucker Carlson got his a** handed to him and still somehow made a career that we're still reeling from today.

[Rikadyn]

AOC is just the new Hillary to right wing goons.

[Crazed_Insanity]

AOC is also the new Bernie Sanders to the left wing Neanderthal.

Nobody loves Bernie. Nobody loves AOC. 2000 years ago back in Israel, nobody in power loves Jesus either.

When the rich and powerful on both sides hate somebody, you know that person is special.

[sandydandy]

maybe it was a Vouis Luitton bag (fake) :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

maybe it was a Vouis Luitton bag (fake)

The problem is, anytime someone makes any kind of statement, the "other side", typically right-wingers, will find ANY possible way to take shots at it to make it seem bad to their brainwashed supporters. There's no middle ground or ability to discuss things properly. I'm reminded of Jon Stewart who summed it up brilliantly when he was on Crossfire many years ago



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE

Tucker Carlson got his a** handed to him and still somehow made a career that we're still reeling from today.

Just rewatched that youtube clip... I think I remember seeing that clip/episode back then. Jon already did very well on it, but I kinda wish he could've used more humor... to make it so that Tucker could laugh with him rather than it endup feeling like being laughed at and lectured on? Perhaps that would have a much better effect and change Tucker for the better? Obviously things have only gotten worse.

Also, I think Hillary would've been a much stronger candidate against W. Hillary really should've ran sooner... pre-Obama. Her timing really wasn't the best... or Obama should've waited a bit. But then again, who knows, had Obama stuck with being a senator, perhaps he would've end up accumulating more political baggages like Hillary and end up derailing his future?

Anyway, it just wasn't meant to be for Hillary.

Dem's primary process also need to somehow end up picking the candidates that they truly love, rather than picking a person who they think the republicans might accept.

Seriously, if you want to be 'pragmatic' or real about it, Republicans will accept nobody on the dem ticket. So you might as well pick the guy you want. Need more Bill Clintons and Obamas and less Gores and Kerrys.

[neanderthal]

Yeah, I'm not sure I see the controversy here. It's not like she hasn't been advocating for increasing taxes on the wealthy, it's pretty on-brand.

Owing that much in taxes generally puts you on that rich category. So she went on the red carpet (did the meet gala have a red carpet?) and flaunted/ advertised the already rich designer.


But also, as a congressperson, she can't take free stuff.

Also, hobnobbing with the rich. There's layers of unawareness going on.

I don't dislike AOC; I just wish she "did the work."

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah the entire situation for her was a mistake. The gala is a $30,000 per head dinner engagement for the rich and famous. She certainly got a message out there but she’s being rightfully lampooned over it.

The big benefit is that it’s now a fantastic meme canvass, so that’s good.

[FaultyMario]

The big benefit is that it’s now a fantastic meme canvass, so that’s good.

Achievement unlocked.

[neanderthal]

Yeah the entire situation for her was a mistake. The gala is a $30,000 per head dinner engagement for the rich and famous. She certainly got a message out there but she’s being rightfully lampooned over it.

The big benefit is that it’s now a fantastic meme canvass, so that’s good.

SHe can profit off the sale of the NFT for that.

[MR2 Fan]

it's really weird for me for prime ministers of other countries to be like "I think I'm going to call for an election this month" and just do it. The U.S. has a LOT of weird and stupid politics policies but this seems more odd to me

[sandydandy]

Well Justin Trudeau wins again, and as expected another minority government. His failure to get a majority tonight means this whole thing was a colossal waste of money; to the tune of $610M, or roughly $16 per person - $64 out of my household.

There was no need to call an election. Fucking idiot, JT.

Erin Stool and the Conservatives aren’t going away. In no time they’ll start playing politics and team up with the other parties to force a vote of no-confidence, and JT will call yet another election, and on and on this farce will go.


it's really weird for me for prime ministers of other countries to be like "I think I'm going to call for an election this month" and just do it. The U.S. has a LOT of weird and stupid politics policies but this seems more odd to me This is why I much prefer the American fixed system of an election every four years. Not whenever the PM wants to call one.

I feel cheated out of my time and money. :angry:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Don’t really understand Canadian politics, but it appears regardless which kind of system you have, we do end up with similar results?

Which nation on earth really has the happiest citizens because their government is just working so well?

YW would probably nominate China. Anyone else? ;)

[MR2 Fan]

I've heard Iceland is pretty good?

[Rare White Ape]

it's really weird for me for prime ministers of other countries to be like "I think I'm going to call for an election this month" and just do it. The U.S. has a LOT of weird and stupid politics policies but this seems more odd to me

Where I live, elections happen:

- At federal level they occur at a maximum of every three years, but the incumbent prime minister can call it sooner depending on how they feel their chances might go

- At state level it depends on the laws of the state, but they happen every four years in my state of Queensland - a law which changed after a referendum in 2016 with the first fixed term in effect now after the 2020 election in October

- At local council level they have fixed terms across the state where EVERY local government election happens every four years on the same day in March

Federal senate terms are six years (or every 2nd election) with half the senators being voted in on one election, and the other half being voted in on the next election. Recently there was a 'double dissolution' election where both chambers (upper and lower house) were fully dissolved and all members had to stand again. It's a gambit played where the government of the day seeks to achieve a majority in both houses in order to pass laws that have been stopped at senate level.

[neanderthal]

Ahem. (https://twitter.com/Arianedevogue/status/1439983473473855496?s=19)

Mo and em, 2016: guys, be reasonable. The Supreme Court is at stake here.

Billi and em, 2016: dude are you retarded, HER FUCKING EMAILS ...


Here we are.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I've heard Iceland is pretty good?

Icelanders may be happy folks, but they still do suffer from high rate of depression as well. Could be the long winter nites? Or perhaps something else?

Also a quick wiki of their government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Iceland
"After the 2008 financial crisis, there has been an increasing fractionalization of the Icelandic party system. The increase in the number of parties has made it harder for coalition governments to form.[5] What's more, since the initial resignation of the government in January 2009 after the banking collapse, revelations of subsequent political scandals have resulted in the government collapsing in 2016, following the Panama Papers, and again in 2017, following revelations of impropriety within the ranks of the political class; both instances culminated in anti-government protests being staged.[6] Organized protests held to highlight and challenge political corruption since 2008 have therefore come to stress the necessity for the new Icelandic constitution that was co-drafted by the 2009 leftist government and select members of the public to be enshrined into law."

Seems like they have a pretty messed up government as well. I suspect Icelanders probably are very positive optimistic people by nature, which helps raise their happiness index when compared to other nations... but I really think politicians of every nation sucks. If you don't have a good enough constitution in place, they will all drive the nation to the ground eventually.

To have somebody like Trump in charge and our nation is still left standing... gotta give some credit to our founding fathers. Still, our laws are constantly being mutilated as pointed out by Neanderthal... so for sure USA won't last forever.

Neanderthal, I really think the moral of the story is to have better candidates... rather then just be pragmatic and accept somebody who's less evil as long as the opposition party doesn't win...

[Dicknose]

I've heard Iceland is pretty good?
Apart from a financial crisis that almost destroyed the economy

[Dicknose]

Where I live, elections happen:

- At federal level they occur at a maximum of every three years, but the incumbent prime minister can call it sooner depending on how they feel their chances might go


This "when I want" is inside a window based around 3 years.

There are conditions in which they can call an election before the term is up - but these usually only happen to a minority govt that has lost the ability to pass important bills through parliament ie a budget

[Crazed_Insanity]

Apart from a financial crisis that almost destroyed the economy

Are you happy with your Aussie govt? If not, do you wish your govt could be more like…?

[neanderthal]

...

Neanderthal, I really think the moral of the story is to have better candidates... rather then just be pragmatic and accept somebody who's less evil as long as the opposition party doesn't win...

It was a binary fucking choice.

You can have your "have better candidates" all you want but at the end of the day the choice was between lil Hitler and the lady with all the foreign policy experience.

And you guys reacted like we nominated Jared the clown.

At presidential level it's a fucking binary election. That's the reality. You've got the nomination process to pick your favorites.

The lives, welfare, and rights of all minority groups were at stake. You'd think someone who calls themselves "progressive" would've understood that, but here we fucking are, five years later, and you still refuse face the implications of your decisions.

[21Kid]

Yeah, I'm not sure I see the controversy here. It's not like she hasn't been advocating for increasing taxes on the wealthy, it's pretty on-brand.

I'm in the same boat. I understand why people feel upset about it. But, look at it from a different angle. She took the message directly to the people who need to hear it. What would she have accomplished staying away, and instead going on Rachel Maddow or something?

I love it when people from the other side try to reach across the table. I tried to watch Bill Maher for a while because he frequently would have Republicans on his show. But I just couldn't stand him enough. LOL

[Crazed_Insanity]

Neanderthal, I was disappointed with Obama for pretending to be antiestablishment when running against Hillary in the primary but ended pretty much becoming another Hillary. I just don’t want to continue further down that direction with a genuine Hillary. I also don’t want the pussy grabber.

So the choice was not binary for me. I self identify as a transvoter!

[Tom Servo]

I'm in the same boat. I understand why people feel upset about it. But, look at it from a different angle. She took the message directly to the people who need to hear it. What would she have accomplished staying away, and instead going on Rachel Maddow or something?

I love it when people from the other side try to reach across the table. I tried to watch Bill Maher for a while because he frequently would have Republicans on his show. But I just couldn't stand him enough. LOL

Heh, I definitely didn't see it as reaching across the table. It reminded me more, though nowhere near the in the same league, as the Dead Kennedys attending BAM Magazine's Bammie awards when they got nominated for California Uber Alles. They showed up at a music industry event and started playing the song they were supposed to say, then stopped, whipped around ties over their shirts they'd spray painted "S"s on to make dollar signs, and then did a sorta-parody song of My Sharona as "My Payola", with the refrain "Is my cock big enough, is my brain small enough, for you to make me a star?"

It wasn't even remotely that same level of "fuck you", but there was still a bit of that for me. It's got it's flaws (designer owes lots in taxes, it's potentially taking gifts one shouldn't as a congresscritter), but there's still a punk rock vibe to it that I liked.

[FaultyMario]

there's still a punk rock vibe to it that I liked.

Slightly off-topic, but I really liked that Lewis Hamilton would use his money to buy a table at the gala, invite young, Afrodescendant* fashion designers and then have Anna Wintour co-host the table. That is the definition of buying up influence.




_____
* I don't recall if they were all American or British or Afrocaribbean.

[Tom Servo]

See, it annoys me that he keeps doing things that I like.

[Crazed_Insanity]

AOC supposedly has some afro in her? She'd probably attend such event for free with her free dress, all paid for by Lewis Hamilton, saying: "Max #1!"

[Tom Servo]

Long but (IMHO) worth reading essay from a longtime arch conservative: Opinion: Our constitutional crisis is already here (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/23/robert-kagan-constitutional-crisis/)

I probably have a few "gift" article credits if any of you hits a paywall.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Can you just copy and paste the article here? I can’t read it…

[Tom Servo]

Can you just copy and paste the article here? I can’t read it…

This is likely a one time use link, but we'll see: https://wapo.st/39CfsfW

[neanderthal]

I've been saying the "progressives" are hostile to democrats. Here is the proof, from their own mouths.

https://twitter.com/JusticeDemWatch/status/1385222413240127491?s=19

[Crazed_Insanity]

This is likely a one time use link, but we'll see: https://wapo.st/39CfsfW

IMHO, author is way too worried about how to prevent trump and GQP than be concerned with how to properly lead this country.

We can’t be so focused on defeating trump and the opposition party and then expect them to cooperate with us to pass bills and nominate judges when we are in charge.

Just lead the nation to a better place, then the votes will come.

In a way Trump is giving the impression of doing that… MAGA without actually MAGA… they all just imagining it happening in their alternate reality…

There’s no denying trumps appeal to his base, but I really believe his base is shrinking because thanks to Covid, his incompetence is showing. Yes, there are Covid deniers denying Covid even on their death beds, but I really don’t believe majority of Americans are like that.

Just do a good job and surely you’ll be able to retain power and gain more seats and progressives won’t be able to threaten you either. However if you dont make the lives of average Americans better while in power, then don’t cry when republicans and progressives eat you for lunch.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I've been saying the "progressives" are hostile to democrats. Here is the proof, from their own mouths.

https://twitter.com/JusticeDemWatch/status/1385222413240127491?s=19
Dems are hostile to progressives too.

What’s the big deal?

[Tom Servo]

Just lead the nation to a better place, then the votes will come.

In a way Trump is giving the impression of doing that… MAGA without actually MAGA… they all just imagining it happening in their alternate reality…


I feel like you're contradicting yourself here. How can you lead the nation to a better place that people will notice if the same people are literally just imagining that the world is going to a better place via a cult of personality? Which I think was part of the author's point - the constitution wasn't written believing that a cult of personality would be so strong that it'd suck other branches of government into it. When you've got legislators trying to pass laws that give them the ultimate say over the election in their state - literally empowering the people you vote for to choose which votes count - and having people support those legislators, that's the scary part.

For all the people who think that Mike Pence should have been able to pick and choose which states' votes counted, do you think they're swayed by the fact that then Al Gore would have been able to do the same thing in 2000? There's no rationality here.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m always contracting myself. I’m prolife AND prochoice remember? ;) maybe I should say I’m neither against life nor am I against choice? I sometime feel like people became overly logical and rational and force themselves into unnecessary binary choices.

Anyway, I just think we need to stop focusing on Trump and his base. Our goal shouldn’t just be to stop and defeat him and his base. Should be aiming much higher than that.

Dems just need to figure out ways to improve the lives of ‘average americans’ as well. Not just LGBT or refugees or whatever minorities.

If you have the same exact foreign and economic policies as GOP, and you keep on dwelling on minority issues and claiming that the ‘average Americans’ who are sliding backwards compared to generation prior as too privileged… no wonder somebody like trump was able to gain a bigger base.

Are majority of Americans really all that privileged and living good lives? If so, then maybe we can start to do more on improving minority lives and they will be more accepting to the ideas?

At the moment, majority of Americans are not better off. Fighting for more minority rights can also be difficult and whenever we fail, we’ll just blame that on the racist majority for blocking us…

I do like the idea of making america great again. But for the entire or at least majority of US, not just the rich getting super rich while majority of Americans get left in the dust and fighting each other for scrap.

Conditions can only improve if our working class can earn living wages. GOP isn’t promising that. Dems are not pushing for that because we just have to be pragmatic. Earning living wages is just not realistic! Instead let’s use our limited funds to build more unisex bathrooms! Yeah, great idea to win more votes!

[Tom Servo]

But isn't that just being a populist? It's upholding the status quo to appease the existing majority at the expense of the minority. If you apply that to any previous civil rights fight, how does that sound? "Let's use our limited funds to integrate schools! Yeah, great idea to win more votes!" It seems to me like it'd be selling a bit of your soul to retain power, which admittedly is probably how most politicians feel in any party.

[Yw-slayer]

Or rather, enabling the tyranny of the masses...

[Crazed_Insanity]

You guys are thinking binary again. Why must improving the lives of the majority be at the expense of the minority?

Assuming you are right, improving one group must come at the expense of the other group, then does it make sense in a democracy to improve the lives of the minority at the expense of the majority?

The improvements I’m hoping for should be wholesale improvements for all groups! All men and all women and even those who are not sure of their gender.

When the majority is suffering and you don’t address that, how can you expect to win?

Back then, white Americans were for sure gaining at the expense of black slaves…

Today, most of us who need a paycheck are the slaves of today.

Anyway, we don’t need tyranny, either from a dicktator or the mass…

[Tom Servo]

I think you're misattributing the binary thought here. I think that changing the status quo often helps all of us. However, there is a large part of the country that think things like "if homosexuals are allowed to get married, that devalues my heterosexual marriage."

[Crazed_Insanity]

There will always be people who think that way. Used to be a majority and I’m sure now a minority group, even amongst conservatives.

Also, workers being paid below living wages vs homosexuals who can’t get married…, which group should have priority?

Perhaps both causes could be fought at the same time, but I just think a party who’s seemingly pro gays, but don’t do much to help workers earn living wages won’t be super popular.

[neanderthal]

There will always be people who think that way. Used to be a majority and I’m sure now a minority group, even amongst conservatives.

Also, workers being paid below living wages vs homosexuals who can’t get married…, which group should have priority?

Perhaps both causes could be fought at the same time, but I just think a party who’s seemingly pro gays, but don’t do much to help workers earn living wages won’t be super popular.

So, of course, the progressive ... your answer is to pick a fight with the party that is pro gay, because they "don't do much to help workers earn living wages" when the other party is anti gay AND anti living wages. And really anti a n y t h i n g and e v e r y t h i n g progressive.

Do you see how idiotic that stance is? :?

Y'all dumbasses need to realise that 70% of what you want is better than zero of what you want. But I guess math and logic and common sense really isn't y'all strong point.

Nevermind, don't answer.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don’t have any problems with being pro gay. I only have a problem with them forgetting about pro living wages.

GQP is full of problems too. Not advocating for them at all.

Really not trying to pick a fight with dems, but just want dems to be better and be able win majority of the seats in congress. Shouldn’t be this hard.

[Tom Servo]

Do you see how idiotic that stance is?

There are times in conversations like this where I think Billi is just incapable of saying "oh, that's a good point" or something like that and has to push back on everything said to him. He's still trying to argue that a lot of the GOP is rational currently, and that they're not in the thrall of a cult of personality where the only guiding principle is "own the libs," which is essentially the gist of the article that started this.

As evidence of this, see Breitbart's recent op-end about vaccines that claim that the liberals are playing 12-dimension chess and telling people to get vaccinated to trick Republicans into *not* getting vaccinated because otherwise that'd be the opposite of owning the libs and therefore they'll all die of covid. It's truly breathtaking, but it's literally where we're at.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No, I never said trump base is acting rationally and defending their decision to support trump. Just saying trump swindled their votes and I understand why that happened. Sure, there are most likely nutcase racists in that base, but not all of them are racists.

If average Americans are well off enough, racists and trump would not be able to win. Even in 2016, Hillary did win most of the votes, just not enough to win the WH.

Lastly, average Americans are not highly educated. Most are gullible like me.

[Tom Servo]

But you're saying that if the democrats focused on living wages, they'd win over these voters. That's expecting rationality from them, isn't it?

Look at people like Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Green, Matt Gaetz, Madison Cawthorn -- the list goes on. They got elected on an "own the libs" platform, nothing more than that. Most of them seemed to campaign on very little more than "I'll stop those dirty democrat commies, and also here's a picture of me with a gun!"

[Crazed_Insanity]

When people are more well fed and happy with their lives, my assumption is that they will definitely become more rational and more capable of showing grace and mercy to others. Some natural born crazies and racists might never change, but I’m talking about ‘average Americans’ here.

The extremists are usually not the majority.

[Tom Servo]

Yes, this is true. The point is is that right now the extremists are a way larger proportion than they normally are, and as much as some outlets like the NY Times have tried to make this about "economic anxiety", the actual votes have not lined up along those lines. In fact, at least according to exit polling (https://www.statista.com/statistics/631244/voter-turnout-of-the-exit-polls-of-the-2016-elections-by-income/), poorer people voted for Hillary more than Trump.

Everything you're saying is normally the case, but the problem is that right now it's no longer the case. These are not normal times, which is what the article was trying to say.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The fact that Biden won proves that most Americans still are normal or at least yearning for normal. Even Hillary won more than 50% of the popular vote! So I think we ought to still have faith in majority of the Americans.

GQP are just better at playing the game. With attractive sounding speeches and personalities… and fully utilizing political BS rules to their advantage. Dems really need to learn to catch up in this area. How do you have majority of the votes, yet do not have majority of the congress?

Anyway, even when it comes to dealing with extremists, how do you fight them?

Whether it’s rational sense or superior fire power, it has proven to be not very effective in Middle East. We just cannot win by fighting them. No threats, bombs big enough to shock and awe them into submission. I cannot shove the gospel down your throat and people can beat the crap out of Jesus and Christianity can still spread…

Such are the quirks with human psychology I guess.

All I know is that if you truly have a vision to lead people to a better place, eventually people will follow.

Spending billions in resources fighting terrorists and trump is futile. Have a vision attractive enough, eventually you might be able to assimilate some people to your side.

Once the dems have a clear vision of who they are and where they want to go, GOP will be left in the dust.

[SportWagon]

Where I live, elections happen:

- At federal level they occur at a maximum of every three years, but the incumbent prime minister can call it sooner depending on how they feel their chances might go

- At state level it depends on the laws of the state, but they happen every four years in my state of Queensland - a law which changed after a referendum in 2016 with the first fixed term in effect now after the 2020 election in October

- At local council level they have fixed terms across the state where EVERY local government election happens every four years on the same day in March

Federal senate terms are six years (or every 2nd election) with half the senators being voted in on one election, and the other half being voted in on the next election. Recently there was a 'double dissolution' election where both chambers (upper and lower house) were fully dissolved and all members had to stand again. It's a gambit played where the government of the day seeks to achieve a majority in both houses in order to pass laws that have been stopped at senate level.

Do you ever have minority governments? Does the loss of a vote on a bill proposed by the party-in-power trigger an election in that case? (with, I thought, a non-confidence vote being a sort of "null bill" triggering this).

That would have been one expected scenario to have happened to Trudeau. It was strange that he simply called an election. To tell you the truth, the past year-and-a-half have been so stressful that it felt like the last federal elextion was longer ago than it was (2019). I guess the fact Trudeau has been Prime Minister since 2015 combined to create that feeling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_of_no_confidence#Australia

[neanderthal]

The fact that Biden won proves that most Americans still are normal or at least yearning for normal. Even Hillary won more than 50% of the popular vote! So I think we ought to still have faith in majority of the Americans.

GQP are just better at playing the game. With attractive sounding speeches and personalities… and fully utilizing political BS rules to their advantage. Dems really need to learn to catch up in this area. How do you have majority of the votes, yet do not have majority of the congress?

Anyway, even when it comes to dealing with extremists, how do you fight them?

Whether it’s rational sense or superior fire power, it has proven to be not very effective in Middle East. We just cannot win by fighting them. No threats, bombs big enough to shock and awe them into submission. I cannot shove the gospel down your throat and people can beat the crap out of Jesus and Christianity can still spread…

Such are the quirks with human psychology I guess.

All I know is that if you truly have a vision to lead people to a better place, eventually people will follow.

Spending billions in resources fighting terrorists and trump is futile. Have a vision attractive enough, eventually you might be able to assimilate some people to your side.

Once the dems have a clear vision of who they are and where they want to go, GOP will be left in the dust.

Congratulations on making my point; the GOP is a fucking disaster, a real time walking talking trainwreck happening right before our eyes, ... and here comes billi to the rescue saying how confused and in disarray the, <checks notes> democrats are.

No introspection like i've said over and over. You and people like you are the problem; letting perfect get in the way of good. That's how the GOP stays in power; gullible fucking clowns like you busy criticising Democrats as corporate sellouts, propagating that everywhere, voting 3rd party, supporting fringe candidates (Tulsi, really?!?!?) and getting completely in the way of what Democrats are trying to do, gain enough power to govern with a liberal agenda.

Then you go strutting around, puffing your chest talmabout "Democrats are in power but can't do shit" when you and your ilk are literally the reason they can't.


If you leftists voted for Democrats we wouldn't have to kowtow to the Manchins and Sinemas of this world because we'd have a surplus of votes in the house and senate.

Bet you come back with a reply that shows just how little introspection you exercise.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I consider myself a liberal, so any political introspections would be to look within the liberal party. There are definitely a lot to blame on the right, I suppose we could just vent here because pretty much all conservative gtxfers have left the forum or left the party. We won’t be able to have any meaningful dialogue with the other side here. We’re simply each whining within our own bubbles…

If you’re expecting me to repent for the sin of not voting for Hillary, sorry, I don’t believe I need to apologize for not playing the lesser evil game. I don’t expect perfection, I just expect some body equal or better than Obama , not somebody who has already lost out to Obama. As for Sanders loses, I still kinda feel he lost unfairly both times… why does the dnc feel the need to interfere in the primary like that?

Anyway, I’m sufficiently happy with Biden. It took guts to tell big pharma to not profit off of Covid vaccines and to end forever wars.

Back to bitching at dems…

Obama’s audacity to hope and trumps MAGA sounded visionary and likely the catch phrases helped them get elected. However, I just don’t think the best we could hope for is to be able to retain the right for abortion or right for gay marriages, or hope they won’t repeal Obamacare… surely we can hope for something even bigger and more bipartisan?

I think even roofer knows how lame GQP politicians are, but he’s also into the lesser evil thing. Surely these lame ass GQP politicians are better than the commie socialists dems have to offer?

Just like forever wars. Terrorizing each other won’t ever work. Need to try to open more channels of proper communications thru the bubbles. Stop allowing politicians to play the I’m the lesser evil game. Dems have more popular votes, dems should be more powerful than they currently are. Dems and progressives are actually on the same team, we really don’t need to try to win Republican votes. Stop compromising and allowing this nation the drift right in the name of pragmatism.

[Yw-slayer]

Lol at the fact that Billi and the brainwashed hardcore "own the libs" Republicans get to vote. Lolllllllllll

[Crazed_Insanity]

That’s how democracy works. You don’t get to devalue somebody just because they’re different from you. Yes, I can understand living under a dictatorship can be less funny I suppose, so enjoy a good laugh while you can! ;)

[21Kid]

Checks thread for the 1st time in a week.

Cool. People arguing with Billi about his inability to make rational thoughts.

Maybe I'll check back in a couple of weeks. Hopefully there's a rational discussion by then.

[Rare White Ape]

Kid I pop in every few days or so and realise that I can’t see half the posts and just back out again :p

[Tom Servo]

Well, hey, the latest round started after I posted what I thought was a pretty interesting article from the Washington Post. You can always read that and chime in :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Maybe they will chime in about my posts next week. ;)

[MR2 Fan]

At the Virginia Governor's Debate tonight, a third party candidate who is On the ballot but wasn't invited to the debate spoke up and interrupted the debate for several minutes.

Her name is Princess Blanding and she's a Liberation party candidate.

I have a major issue with this sort of thing.....you can't name your party Liberation party because a lot of people are going to read it as Libertarian accidentally as that's the first word that comes to mind when we see those first several letters.

As for the speaking up part, I'm in favor...there's too often not enough of candidates allowed to be in debates even though they meet qualifications

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow! Liberation party? A princess to the rescue! Cool!

Seriously though, why not revive the progressive party?

Or maybe a Coffee Party to counter the Tea Party? :D

[2ndMoparMan]

How about we just get rid of all parties?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Personally I'd prefer things die of natural causes rather than we actively try to kill it.

If we can have something better in place, old crappy thing should die of natural causes... the problem now is that we have an old and crappy dualpoly in place and preventing others from getting into the game.

Anyway, I think we ought to just have open primaries for all parties and then just pick 2 finalists regardless of their parties. So we could have 2 GOP candidates or 2 Dems or whoever the 2 most popular in the final round. It shouldn't always be party vs party in the final round... should just be the final 2 most popular candidates in the final rounds. Just so that politicians can no longer play the lesser evil game.

[FaultyMario]

How about we just get rid of all parties?

How about we just make them more accountable to citizens and somehow restrict their ability to make their own rules?

[George]

https://i0.wp.com/i.pinimg.com/736x/af/29/ae/af29ae67956c65f2eda01386744542e2.jpg

[Tom Servo]

I like to swap out the paraphrased quote in `[ ]` with "spatulas". It makes that quote above amazing.

[Yw-slayer]

Checks thread for the 1st time in a week.

Cool. People arguing with Billi about his inability to make rational thoughts.

Maybe I'll check back in a couple of weeks. Hopefully there's a rational discussion by then.

Remember the famous saying about insanity, doing the same thing, and expecting different results. :D

[Crazed_Insanity]

Got this from roofer's FB. Not sure where he found it, but I have to wonder why the WH felt the need to stage this like that. Why couldn't the president just receive his shot in the real building somewhere?

Biden could very well be receiving real shots, but this whole staging thing will only fuel further conspiracies, right? Why can't we just make it more real?

3820

[Tom Servo]

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/sep/30/facebook-posts/no-joe-biden-didnt-get-his-booster-shot-fake-white/

[Crazed_Insanity]

That makes more sense now... thanks to politifact I guess.

I still wish Biden could've just hold his virtual summit and take his shots in his "real" office though. These elaborate sets isn't really necessary, costs extra taxpayer money and allows conspiracies to spread much easier amongst gullible people like me. In a world where there's a lot of distrust, they should try to make things as real as possible.

Perhaps the stage/sets in auditorium was necessary in order to fill the room full of reporters? That would be a good reason to do that... however, considering we have a pandemic on our hands, do we really need to put our president at risk like that?

Something still doesn't feel quite right to me.

[Yw-slayer]

Ah, today is 1 October. Truly a great day and much cause for celebration.

[Rare White Ape]

Yes... it is Brie Larson's birthday, the anniversary of the establishment of Yosemite national park, ahh, Sayid Abdullah became the last Khan of Kiva... NACA turned into NASA, ummm, new fiscal year in the US and A? And it's the start of Halloween season.......? Oh, and Gladys Berejiklian resigned today.

What else YW?

[FaultyMario]

You can click on the translate option for each post on this thread (https://twitter.com/robertotaboada5/status/1443668962856902662), once in twitter.

It is a minor thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11441_Anadiego), but it explains why a lot of us in the global south hate the US government's policies and agencies. Specially the three letter ones.

[Yw-slayer]

Yes... it is Brie Larson's birthday, the anniversary of the establishment of Yosemite national park, ahh, Sayid Abdullah became the last Khan of Kiva... NACA turned into NASA, ummm, new fiscal year in the US and A? And it's the start of Halloween season.......? Oh, and Gladys Berejiklian resigned today.

What else YW?

Obviously Billi's favourite day of the year! :D

[MR2 Fan]

Walt Disney World opened October 1st 1971, EPCOT Center (where I spent many days as a kid, as my father worked in the central computers for the whole park) opened October 1st 1982

[Crazed_Insanity]

Chinese communist party’s birthday has its noble beginnings! But clearly it didn’t live up to its high ideals. Of course then again we can say US has similar failures of not living up to its ideals… or perhaps too much of it in terms to ‘freedom’!!!

Saw an article somewhere saying that both nations are now doing military exercises by using mock ups of each other’s tanks…

Anyway, have a happy birthday YW, but I really hope China won’t repeat the same mistakes made by the former Soviet Union.

[2ndMoparMan]

How about we just make them more accountable to citizens and somehow restrict their ability to make their own rules?

I can't say here what I really want to happen to most politicans.

[neanderthal]

One party wants to end democracy. The other is weighing including free community college in the package they're debating.

Billi n em reckon both of them are terrible.

[neanderthal]

The amount of gaslighting that's been done to the American public ...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, both are terrible. However, at least I've actually voted for democrats for presidents. I have never voted republican. I don't recall if I voted for republican anything in fact. Not even the Governator.

You are certainly very loyal to the party. I have no loyalty for parties. Nation, sure, but parties can come and go. Nations will come and go too of course eventually. No need to insist on being loyal to dying and corrupted things.

If the dems could transform and be better, no doubt I'll vote more of them. Just don't tell me to vote dem because of GOP! Fuck that.

[Yw-slayer]

So glad I don't live there (even if most of you guys on the forum are cool and the places I've visited are great). You guys enjoy being in the same country as Billi!!!

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/sep/30/facebook-posts/no-joe-biden-didnt-get-his-booster-shot-fake-white/

I replied to roofer with this link and explained to him the ‘stage’ was created 5 days ago for another event…

And then FB flagged me and said I was posting BS so nobody will be able to see my post. Also said I could disagree if I want, so I disagreed and the FB said due to Covid, they don’t have enough reviewers to review my disagreement so essentially telling me to fuck off.

It’s little wonder why the conservative right is pissed off. I’m basically guilty also by association. They must took YW’s recommendation to just classify me as a trump supporter.

[Tom Servo]

I thought FB would just add a thing below it saying that it was disputed or whatever? I'm surprised FB would block something from politifact.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I was surprised too. I can understand they prevent roofer from posting shit, but FB is blocking my response trying to clear things up. Also, they cannot recognize my link from politifact? So weird. Their police bots probably just figured I fit the profile and just decided to shoot me 1st and nobody would care anyway.

1st time this kinda thing happened to me. Happened to wife a few times… for saying politically insensitive things against the CCP. If YW thought I was something, boy will he love my wife! ;)

[Tom Servo]

I'd love to see screenshots of this, I'm honestly really curious about how FB is handling it and want to see if I can figure out their reasoning.

I'm definitely not doubting you, I got tossed in Twitter jail for making an allusion to the "suicide panic" around Judas Priest back in the 80's, because their automated systems though I was advocating self-harm.

[Crazed_Insanity]

3821

Don’t know why this pic is so tiny and what I can do to make it bigger… can you read that?

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, I can see it. I wish it gave more feedback as to why. The programmer in me would immediately make my own post just telling people to ignore and then comment exactly that on my own post to see if it is allowed then, but that's a little much to ask of others.

Is there any chance you're responding to one of his comments on a Facebook "Page" or "Group", not just on one of his own posts on his own timeline?

It definitely strikes me as another company putting way too much faith in machine learning/AI to handle these problems for them if it's not just some random moderator on a group or page.

[Crazed_Insanity]

3822FB did give a ‘general’ explanation notice.

As far as I can tell, I was responding to one of his own posts. Maybe politifact is politifake? We shouldn’t be linking that shit? ;)

Anyway, whatever happened, FB handled it pretty poorly. I can understand why Trump supporters can be upset at their speech police acting as judge and executioner while you have no way to appeal or dispute…

Previously it was FB and Twitter screw ups that allowed trump to win… now I think they’re over compensating… it’s like they just don’t know what is the right or proper thing to do… problems between right and left will only continue to get amplified…

We really need to introduce more ‘damping’ in our political system cause otherwise things will get out of control…

[Tom Servo]

Have you tried to post it without any other commentary, just the link? Not asking you to do so, just diagnostics. Sorry, I'm in like "remotely debugging something at my parents' house" mode, so feel free to tell me to fuck off.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ok, just did, roofer will probably tell me to fuck off then I will tell you to fuck off, but it’s possible FB will tell me to fuck off 1st.

Will keep you posted with these chain of events! :D

[Tom Servo]

Lol, thanks for playing along. If that works, I'd love to see how they scored what you wrote, because it obviously shouldn't trigger a filter.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So far so good. Fb police hasn’t said anything. Neither did roofer. Maybe FB has just places all my responses on automatic ignore so nobody can see it. ;)

I’ll PM roofer about it in the few days… I think I got that warning notice from FB couple of days after… it wasn’t an immediate response. Shouldn’t AI be faster than that? Or there’s just too much misinfo even for AI? :lol:

[Tom Servo]

My guess is they only react if someone has reported the comment, and then it gets run through some sort of algorithm. I wonder if the presence of "conspiracy" in the comment helps or hurts.

[sandydandy]

So far so good. Fb police hasn’t said anything. Neither did roofer Roofer will never comment once he’s been corrected. I noticed that back when he was complaining about something and you corrected him. That same discussion where he said you weren’t a real American.

[Crazed_Insanity]

He spoke the truth, you’re Canadian! North Americans are not real Americans! :p

[sandydandy]

He spoke the truth, you’re Canadian! North Americans are not real Americans! :p No he said YOU were not a real American.

[Yw-slayer]

Lollll that had to hurt for Billi

[Tom Servo]

I know there are a lot of folks that love that guy. I counted myself as one of them. My life is much better now that he's blocked me.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No he said YOU were not a real American.

Oh, he’s still not wrong though. I ain’t no naturally born American. More like unnaturally born!:devil:

Anyway, clearly roofer has his issues and I have my issues, but bigger issue is US political system and FB, media social and otherwise,fucking us over.

Clearly something in common brought us together, but we just can’t help dwell on our differences…

[Yw-slayer]

Blah blah blah. You believe you believe in the same shit as roofer but the fact is that, fundamentally, he thinks you're worthless. Just open your eyes, man. Or don't, I really don't give a shit that you and him theoretically have the same voice in "your country", when but in reality his carries much more weight than yours. Enjoy life as a second class citizen.

[Crazed_Insanity]

2nd class citizen will be better than living under CCP rule. Unless my family was just stupid to retreat from mainland to Taiwan in the 1st place… and then decided to immigrate from Taiwan to US so that I can have a better education here in the states. (I did not do well on standardized tests and likely won’t do well had I stayed in Taiwan) also, you never wondered why Dalai Lama chose to not return home to be 1st class citizen? What is wrong with him? Should ask him to prove how wrong he is. Wherever people live, we definitely should all try to enjoy as much as we can…

For sure roofer has more weight than me because he is truly fatter! No argument against that!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Lol, thanks for playing along. If that works, I'd love to see how they scored what you wrote, because it obviously shouldn't trigger a filter.

Apparently thanks to Swervo's clever idea to test and diagnose things, our little test has probably triggered FB servers to blow up! FB is down now! Haha...

[Tom Servo]

It was kinda wild too, their DNS entries were erased as were most of their BGP routes. I'm so excited to see what ended up causing this. My brain tells me it was likely just a mistake (like when Cloudflare made a tiny mistake in a BGP config and routed all internet traffic through one data center in Atlanta), but it seems so overwhelming that part of me wonders if it was an internal sabotage. It probably wasn't, but looking forward to the post-mortem, assuming they share it.

[neanderthal]

Pandora's papers.

If you don't know, google it.

[Tom Servo]

I feel so worried about that - it should be devastating, but I feel like we've all gotten so used to that level of corruption that the reaction so far is "yeah, this isn't a surprise."

[neanderthal]

I feel so worried about that - it should be devastating, but I feel like we've all gotten so used to that level of corruption that the reaction so far is "yeah, this isn't a surprise."

We've all become cynics. Trump n the media did a real number on us.

[FaultyMario]

Not really.

After nobody was sent to prison for the 2008 great recession, or the Panama Papers, or the Andorra investigation... people are like "meh, when is my turn?".

Apathy is to be expected from loss of norm efficacy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I think I became a cynic way before Trump. I dunno, maybe had I voted for Hillary, she would've stopped the rich from getting richer and crackdown on all the corruptions? Yeah, that's it. I should've voted for Hillary to stop all that. It's all Trump's and the conservatives' fault obviously. Or if you're too far the left, then you can share some blame too. Moderate DNC could've saved the world if only Billi and the idiots voted for them.

[FaultyMario]

You are not a capitalist.

These special rules, or rather, the lack of codification or enforcement of tax erosion activities, apply to a select few.

You think you are a cynic, but you are just powerless.

Sorry.

[FaultyMario]

See, it annoys me that he keeps doing things that I like.

You're going to get mad then, because he has been doing things by the book.

Last year he commissioned a study to find out why POC kids don't make it to F1.

Commission paper said there needs to be a socio-academic scaffolding in order for kids to a) be interested in the core engineering activities, and b) excel at them.

The Mission 44 Foundation got to work based on those evidences and have come up with a plan. Yesterday they announced that they're hiring 150 STEM teachers from marginal and ethnically diverse backgrounds to send them to government schools in deprived areas of England, so that they can serve as role-models for underprivileged kids and get them in a STEM route, and hopefully, leading them to better paying jobs and some of them to the motorsports industries.

This is so much better than the "Learn to Code" messaging from politicians.

[Crazed_Insanity]

You are not a capitalist.

These special rules, or rather, the lack of codification or enforcement of tax erosion activities, apply to a select few.

You think you are a cynic, but you are just powerless.

Sorry.

That is true. No need to apologize. I do have no or very little power to change any of that! :p

[Crazed_Insanity]

My guess is they only react if someone has reported the comment, and then it gets run through some sort of algorithm. I wonder if the presence of "conspiracy" in the comment helps or hurts.

Okay, roofer's post apparently has been deleted by FB, probably thanks to me for spreading 'misinformation' down below in the comments section? So no way to tell whether if our test works or not... It's interesting earlier on, roofer's post was still left standing, just my comment got deleted.

There must be somebody on the inside screwing around at FB. I still like to think that silencing me with a politifact link along with the entire FB going down subsequently is somehow related. :p

[FaultyMario]

Y'aall I haave newws:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FA4TItjXsAQ-78A.png

[Yw-slayer]

An incredible achievement by Billi's Country flowing from anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers!!!!

[MR2 Fan]

that's one of the things I hate....he is so tacky in everything he does, he has all of the class of an old school used car salesman

[George]

I was watching a Simpsons episode with my daughter last night called "The Italian Bob" and was amused, but sadly so, by this.

The episode first aired in 2005.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjwSVCnl7Rw

[Crazed_Insanity]

An incredible achievement by Billi's Country flowing from anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers!!!!

It truly is. This is the main reason why I believe America became a superpower of the world only because of God's grace. If the Christian right continue to follow Trump rather than Jesus, then I think Jesus will probably return soon to clean up the mess...

[Rare White Ape]

So it turns out that far-right nut job news channel OAN is 90% funded by left-ish network CNN’s parent company AT&T, according to this:

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-oneamerica-att/?fbclid=IwAR0VXP1ftVxNMFAFkaK6Lm2tyLrSVfAMAjnU5Xp1 xV7OnaA10Bt9y0NQBwk

This ain’t a slight against CNN. Rather, it’s extremely stinky tactics by AT&T to commit to both-sidesing political discourse in such a big way.

[Tom Servo]

It's times like these that I'm mad that I was already boycotting AT&T, at least as well as one can in a world where major conglomerates own a ton of corporations and you have no idea whether you're truly boycotting them.

Maybe it'll upset them if I tell them I'm ending my 16 year boycott of them so I can immediately start again.

[George]

...if I tell them...

Good luck getting someone at THE PHONE COMPANY* to answer the phone in less than an hour of listening to the continual stream of advertising chatter while you're on hold. They don't even play music so you can zone out and do other stuff. No, they talk to you the whole time with enough pauses and clicks to make it sound like someone is picking up the phone.

*for those of us old enough to remember Ma Bell

Bonus points if they act remotely interested before transferring you to "someone who can help", which almost always results in one of these outcomes:

- Being connected to someone who can't help at all. "Oh, you're calling about a business account? I can only help with personal accounts. Hold please."

- Being put back in the beginning of the phone queue so you have to start completely over with the next person, who can't or won't help any more than the others you've already spoken with did

- Being disconnected

And this even assumes you can make it through the automated phone menu, such as calling their phone number on the monthly bill of your ten-digit account only to have their automated computer voice ask you for your thirteen-digit account number.

Recorded voice: "We're sorry you're having trouble. Goodbye." *dial tone*

That's an exact quote. I've heard it too many times.

Or, if you miraculously get to a person after furiously pressing zero until your finger hurts, being told to call some other phone number other than the phone number on the bill! Start over. Get ready for another hour of frustration.

Source: My company of the last five years has multiple AT&T accounts that I am involved with. The last one where I worked for four years had many more accounts than we do here.

I bet I've spent two of the last nine years on hold with AT&T.

I just remembered this tasty morsel from my last job: sometimes employees would open a phone account in the company name but have the bill sent to their home in the middle of the desert in Nevada (seriously; I've seen addresses like "Eight miles north of Route 12") or a freakin' job site where there's no mail delivery (not joking). Eventually we'd find out we owed them money. I'd call to find out how and how much TO PAY THEM when I learned there was a past due balance or the service had been disconnected.

"I'm sorry, but you're not authorized to discuss this account."

"But I'm trying TO PAY YOU!"

"You're not authorized."

"Okay, tell me who from our company opened this account and I'll get them to call you SO WE CAN PAY YOU."

"You're not authorized."

It was like talking to Nomad on the Star Trek episode "The Changeling".

Oh, and then there was the time we had accounts being turned off for non-payment but another account with a forty-thousand dollar credit, even though we correctly identified which account numbers we were paying every time. They don't give a damn. They just apply it all to the first account and move on to the next payment. Lazy bastards.

I'll shut up now. Sorry for the thread derailment.

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled Politics thread, already in progress.

[Tom Servo]

That story at the end reminds me so much of something that happened to a friend with Comcast. He was subletting an apartment and therefore "subletting" the cable bill. They told him he owed something like $500, he asked why, and they told him that since he wasn't the primary person on the bill, they couldn't discuss it. He was responsible for it, but they wouldn't tell him what it was for. Just insanity.

In my case, this was way back in the olden days when roaming was a big problem. I called AT&T, telling them I was going to be doing a road trip from Boston to Minneapolis and I wanted to know if I should be concerned about roaming charges. They told me that there would be no issues at all and not to worry about it. Then I got a bill for $340 from them. Fuck them for lying to me about it when I tried to proactively figure out the situation. The stories I've heard since then make me believe they have not changed.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I actually have a similar story. My parents' house had a land line from AT&T and it was under my name too. Anyway, apparently after they moved out, they missed the last month of their bill... and it was just lost in the mail system or something...

So after a while I received a call from collection agency trying to collect for AT&T. Didn't believe them at 1st... so I call AT&T... it actually took a while on the phone for me to get transferred around to figure out that I actually do owe that last month's bill. So I said fine, I'll pay..., but then I get transferred around and around again... and I couldn't pay! I AM the authorized person on that account and they couldn't figure out how I can pay my bill. I'm guessing the land line division is perhaps so old and ancient, they don't even know how to deal with that? :D

Anyway, in the end, collection agency called me again. So I just paid thru them.

Back to topic, the 'establishment' wants us to fight one another so that they don't have to worry about us fighting them. It's a strategy as old as time... You divide up Germany/India/Korea/China... so that their bickering at one another make them weak and not a threat. Plus, you also get to sell them arms to fight one another.

Germany is the only nation wise enough to reunite to become stronger.

Now this divide and conquer strategy is being utilized at home. Seriously, it's quite sad to see Americans now wish to almost kill each other. Just like Indians against Pakistanis... Chinese against the Taiwanese... (Personally I don't hate Chinese because I consider myself Chinese American, I just hate CCP. Just like I'm no fan of DNC nor GOP.)

Anyway, consider this, a lifetime New Yorker Liberal could all of a sudden switch sides and become a born again christian republican when it suits his ambition to win the WH should give people clues that political ideologies don't really apply for the rich. They can always pick whatever side whenever they wish.

People really take their political ideology way too seriously... IMHO, many Americans are now worshiping false idols of DNC god and GOP god. Now that's crazy.

The rich could use God to manipulate the mass... now they're using politics. Wake up America!

[Tom Servo]

I know you'll disagree, but the vast majority of "wishing to kill the other" appears to be coming from one side, and it's not only aimed at the other side. "Hang Mike Pence" was a pretty regular chant back in January, and it wasn't Pelosi leading it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

They talk big, but rarely walk the walk. MAGA! Did that happen? Most of these crazies converged at DC on Jan 6. How many people did these gun owning nutcases actually kill?

It is also mind boggling police only end up killing 1 rioter.

Anyway, my point wasn’t really about actual killing, but about how sick of each other both sides have become.

And I think we have media to thank for that.

[Tom Servo]

Well, to start, Heather Heyer was mowed down by James Alex Fields at the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville, VA.

Then there's Kyle Rittenhouse, who literally went into a protest successfully killing a few.

Matthew Taylor Coleman killed both of his children after he was convinced his wife was a lizard person and had rendered their children irredeemable.

Anthony Comelo murdered Francesco Cali based on right-wing conspiracy theories.

Brenton Harrison Tarrant killed 51 people at a mosque in Christchurch.

Patrick Wood Crusius killed 23 in El Paso.

Do I need to go on? 'Cause I guarantee I didn't run out of examples. You may not have meant actual killing, but there is *actual killing* happening, and I doubt "the media", as you define it, is leading to that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

When somebody decides to kill, I wouldn’t want to just shift the blame to media. However, I’m pretty sure the establishment is using media to divide and conquer us. There’s just no way any normal human boss would want to own both the right and left news media and push hard in opposing directions…

[Tom Servo]

Okay, so I'm dropping this here, and I know that you will push back and do whatever, but I'm saying it and I do not care how you respond and fully plan to keep your following posts on ignore.

You started by saying that the two sides want to kill each other. I pointed out that it seems to be one-sided. You then claim that neither side *really* mean kill each other and I point out a partial list of 80+ killings by the one side that apparently doesn't actually want to kill anyone.

Now you want to say that you won't shift anything to the media, after literally just blaming the media. You literally said: "And I think we have media to thank for that." I realize you tried to obfuscate that from your previous point, but if so, then what is your point?

I hope that you understand that our regular frustration with you is that you'll regularly make assertions and then do yoga-master level contortions out of squirming out of them. You *never* own up to anything. That is why you get the invective aimed at you that you get here. You refuse to own up to anything you say and just try to wriggle out of any assertion you make. This just happens to be one that you did in the course of like 3 posts over a single night, which makes it particularly easy to see. I am hoping to make an example of this one in the hopes that you'll take it to heart, but I've done that before and the definition of insanity is hoping for a different outcome from the same effort, so....yeah, you make me insane.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Let me put it to simpler terms.

I do believe satan exists to tempt people into doing bad things. I'd like to blame satan for that... and we need to fight satan that way. (to resist doing the bad things satan tempts us to do)

However, once I decided to actually kill somebody, I cannot just shift the blame on satan and claim that satan made me do it and be excused from my crime. (Tempter is not the actual doer of crime. In this case, I am.)

Media is playing the role of satan. Do you disagree? (This was my main point, I don't think you disagree, but you just jumped right over this point and decided to focus in on the next...)

If an American decides to kill another American, doesn't matter if the contributing factor were media or satan or whatever, the killer will then have to own up to that murder.

What exactly do you want me to own up to?

Would you like me to say to you, our media/social media are all innocent and did absolutely nothing wrong?

Or would you like me to own up to what I said, by saying we should prosecute media companies whenever a crazy conspiracy theorist kills?

Anyway, let me apologize for causing you to go insane, but I honestly don't believe that I've done anything wrong here. The point of my post was that we need to be fighting the establishment/media more, rather than each other. That's all. Perhaps my writing style just suck, but I think it'll benefit you to just try to see the overall point I'm trying to deliver rather than focusing in on something particular I said, which is not really the point I was trying to make? Seriously, it doesn't matter which side is worse at this point. So what if the right side is worse? So that we can justify our hatred for them?

When 2 brothers fight... when a couple fight... for some stupid reason, if they still wish to make up and get back to good, should we continue to dwell on which side is worse?

For what it's worth, I can agree the right is worse. The South was worse during the original Civil War too... however, I'm not sure if news paper media was in the thick of it... probably was? Did not study the civil war that extensively so I can't say.

If I am driving you mad, it's okay to put me on ignore. I totally understand. :p

[JSGeneral]

"I hope that you understand that our regular frustration with you is that you'll regularly make assertions and then do yoga-master level contortions out of squirming out of them..."

[Crazed_Insanity]

I totally understand. This is why I'm not as frustrated with you guys! :p I do get frustrated when it feels like discussion get wrapped around details though... the assertions I made were to illustrate a point. Swervo knew I wasn't really talking about americans killing americans, but our discussion focused in on that anyways all because I made a figurative assertion that americans hate each other so much to the point of wanting to kill each other.

Or let's take the prolife and prochoice argument. I am not trying to get out of my assertion that I'm prolife. I'm also not trying to get out of my assertion that I'm prochoice too. I do believe sometimes people here are overly rational and logical that they've became too stiff and tend to get unnecessarily stuck more often. It's obvious now most conservatives are not against choice, they want to have the choice with it comes to masks and vaccines. It's also clear that liberals are not against life, because they want government interference when it comes to life saving masks and vaccines... We're all pro-life and pro-choice, but we refuse to admit to that and end up taking unnecessary sides and start getting frustrated with one another. What is the bigger picture issue here? When should we be pro-life and when should we be pro-choice? We need to be making the correct responsible choices here that minimizes the loss of lives.

Swervo is a programmer... and I think my problem is that I don't write specific enough... so my words just couldn't get thru the compiler without errors... I think that's what I need to work on more. To write out more compiler friendly codes. I guess I'm just not there yet. However, Swervo isn't really a computer. I hope he can detect the message I'm trying to convey and not get too wrapped up in details of any particular assertions. However, being human, we do experience frustration. So I totally get it. Computers would just boot me out.

I'll try to be more careful with my assertions. This all started with RWA's story of AT&T owning both sides of media companies. What are your 'assertions' about that? Or just generally what do you think about that? Forget and ignore what Billi said for now...

[Tom Servo]

Other than silly pictures, the only way we have to communicate on this forum is through written words. I have no idea how to do that if I have to guess if you mean what you're saying or not. I can guarantee, though, that I did not know that you didn't actually mean killing people when you originally said it because, as I pointed out, there have been quite a few instances of people being killed.

Can you understand how downplaying that as "They talk big, but rarely walk the walk. MAGA! Did that happen? Most of these crazies converged at DC on Jan 6. How many people did these gun owning nutcases actually kill?" seems disrespectful to the sheer number of people who have been killed by MAGAts?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Quoting what I posted earlier, I literally was talking about Americans wanting to 'almost kill each other', no actually kill each other.



Now this divide and conquer strategy is being utilized at home. Seriously, it's quite sad to see Americans now wish to almost kill each other. Just like Indians against Pakistanis... Chinese against the Taiwanese...

You want to lead this discussion to actual killings, I didn't want to. That's why I tried to 'downplay' it. Actions of extremists do not represent the entire conservative right. Our society is moving toward extremism in general, which is a not a good trend. However, I still believe most Americans are not really extremists, willing to actually kill. At least I hope that's the case. However, if the establishment continue to play on both sides, we just might start to kill each other. Maybe the examples you listed are just the beginning... as more killings continue, the left will begin to retaliate... and then civil war II.

Up playing all the killings done by the other side may be more 'respectful', but not very helpful.

If the conservative right is full of those killer extremists, there should be way more blood shed during Jan 6, right?

[Tom Servo]

Argh, why do I not just ignore these things?

The flipside of having to figure out what the other person means because their language isn't precise is that means you put words into other people's mouths. I will try to make this precise.

I never said actions of extremists represent the entire conservative right. I never said most conservatives are extremists. I said that most extremists are conservative, and that's because a fair portion of the conservative right media ecosystem (OAN, Newsmax, Real America News, Tucker Carlson, and Sean Hannity for example) make their living by ginning up fear and rage in their audience by claiming that the democrats are cheating and stealing elections so that they can replace all the good white people with a bunch of dirty foreigners who are dumb and will vote for democrats because the democrats need the votes apparently despite the fact that they totally cheat. And also that they unleashed a bioweapon to kill us that's also a hoax at the same time.

[FaultyMario]

Mezcals are on me Brian. They seem necessary.


On a Friday afternoon.

[JoshInKC]

Sotol!

[Tom Servo]

That sounds lovely!

[Crazed_Insanity]

You don’t ignore because you still consider me a friend I guess. Appreciate that! ;)

Anyway, as for the rest of what you said, I do not disagree with any of it. I will just leave it at that to minimize any further frustrations. :p

[21Kid]

Argh, why do I not just ignore these things?

Quote for relevance.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Welcome back 21kid, to chime in weekly about your 2cents regarding relevant political topics in the political thread! I’ll see you next week. ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not sure if this is political or pandemical..., but over the weekend, SW airline has essentially canceled nearly 1/3 of the their scheduled flights. They claim it was weather and air traffic controller related issue, but FAA called their BS... that there was no air traffic controller issue.

I think the main reason was pilots walking off their jobs due to vaccine mandates.

Why do we need to hide the true reason to customers and the public? Why can't we just be open and honest about this? Why does vaccine mandate need to be a fight behind closed doors? As if we have something to hide.

Further, why are pilots, bus drivers and even healthcare professionals willing to give up their careers in order to avoid the vaccines? Truly mind boggling. I've had some discussion on FB about this... essentially the main reason boil downs to 'freedom' of course.

If this continues, our hospitals will be strained not just because of covid patients, but also staffs walking away. Same with pilots and truck and bus drivers... severely impacting people's lives...

Both sides really need to open up their channels of communications in order to prevent miscommunication and distrust... rather than allowing disinformation to run its course...

SW should've compromised with its pilots and remember their ultimate responsibilities to their customers and not just have this political fight with pilots and left travelers stranded. SW also should just tell the truth about this situation. Surely they're not the only company with this problem. We as a nation need to figure out how to solve this problem, collectively. Rather than allowing disinfo to continue to inflate the various bubbles people are living in...

[Tom Servo]

Re that: https://twitter.com/David_Slotnick/status/1447291121051316231

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mr. Pumpkin is saying SW is telling us the truth and FAA is BSing? That incident had absolutely nothing to do with vaccine mandate?

Nearly 1/3 of your scheduled flights cancelled! Anyway, glad to hear that weather, unreliable air traffic control and military exercises can cause this kind of things all the time and vaccine mandates have nothing to do with it.

Our local schools are having trouble finding enough bus drivers to bus kids to school. I actually live pretty close to a military base. Previous owner is actually some hot shot military guy who got promoted to some UN job in Poland... anyway, so it's likely the military exercises in our neighborhood that's causing all the delays busing kids to school. Good thing we've decided to stick with virtual school. :p

Essentially we've come down to this... all the news within our own bubble is real... and all the news in those other bubbles must be fake and then we'll just leave it at that? FAA apparently lives in the other bubble?

[Tom Servo]

It's someone with The Points Guy, a site that's all about airlines and travel. As he points out, this kind of thing happens *all the time*. It is true, though, if he puts a pumpkin emoji after his display name near Halloween, that's probably a red flag.

Feel free to link to something that supports that it's about vaccine mandates though, I actually haven't seen anything saying the FAA are contradicting what Southwest said.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2021/10/10/southwest-airlines-flight-issues-cancellations/6080308001/


On Sunday, the FAA responded to Southwest's statements blaming air traffic control issues and weather — without naming the airline — and said those issues were limited to Friday afternoon.

“No FAA air traffic staffing shortages have been reported since Friday,” Steve Kulm, FAA spokesperson, said in a statement. "Flight delays and cancellations occurred for a few hours Friday afternoon due to widespread severe weather, military training, and limited staffing in one area of the Jacksonville Air Route Traffic Control Center.''

I don't really know what happened to SW. I don't think USAtoday is a far right media. I don't know if FAA is lying or not. I also don't know how Mr. Pumpkin can know with absolute certainty that the cancellations have nothing to do with vaccine mandate. What's real news and what's fake news... how can we tell? You know I'm very gullible. But what's happening to America is crazy and insane. Yeah, we can probably blame more to the right, but why can't SW agree with FAA when releasing a public statement? Little wonder why there's tremendous distrust from the dumb gullible public. This story is just all around weird.

SW continues to say that the cancellations have nothing to do with vaccine mandates.

https://www.axios.com/local/dallas/2021/10/11/southwest-airlines-delays-pilots-covid-vaccine-mandate

I guess we'll just take the company at their words. FAA must not know what they're saying.

Or it could be Friday's incident really created some sort of chain reaction which cause problems for few more days..., however, many antivaxxers believe that their movement has now begun! Based on SW stats, nearly 1/3 of their pilots went on strike for this cause?

Anyway, so can you figure out what's true and what's fake? I'm truly lost.

Wherever the truth lies, this story is still very bizzare.

[Tom Servo]

From the article by that same The Points Guy writer on Twitter:


Southwest initially said on Saturday that the delays were caused by a combination of bad weather in Florida and air traffic control delays. The Federal Aviation Administration, which manages air traffic control, said that it did not have any active delays, causing confusion — Southwest later clarified that it was referring to after-effects from the Friday night delays.

The whole article is here: https://thepointsguy.com/news/southwest-airlines-cancellations-causes/

[Crazed_Insanity]

If SW indeed made that small mistake with their original statement, sadly it has already embolden the antivaxxers... they are already thinking 1/3 of the pilots are with them. Next will be truck drivers, bus drivers and healthcare workers...

I'm beginning to think vaccine mandate is a bad idea. Whenever something goes wrong, they can blame it on the mandate... our city's inability to find bus drivers is real. Maybe we can give them the choice to pick mask or vaccine, but you cannot reject both. With such a hardliner approach, some people just freel the need to rebel I guess.

[Tom Servo]

Speaking of conspiracy theories, Mike Lindell (the MyPillow guy) is now saying that all these election audits in Arizona and elsewhere are actually "fraudits", and that they're all part of the original coverup.

It's stuff like that make me fall on the side of vaccine mandates. The conspiracy theory people will find a way to come up with one anyway. If it doesn't fit what they want the truth to be, then it's just part of the conspiracy. In the meantime, the mandates are proven to get some of the vaccine hesitant to just go ahead and get it. I think the downside only exists if you expect the holdouts to act rationally, which they are not going to do.

Case in point, now there's a theory going around that General Dynamics just canceled their plans for a vaccine mandate after 40% of their workers walked off the job. The two big problems with that are that no workers walked off the job, and GD didn't even have a vaccine mandate to begin with, much less one they canceled.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m still not so sure a hardline approach is the best when dealing with irrational people.

It’s one thing to lay down the law to my kid when my kid has became too unreasonable and I have ran out of patience…. But not sure if this is a good approach with other unreasonable adults.

Case in point, our superior shock and awe firepower is no match to the irrational suicide terrorist bombers. We wasted trillions and decades on them and we still lose. Hardliners never win in the end.

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/southwest-ceo-apologizes-airline-begins-214949506.html

Back to SW airlines..., the company and even the pilot's union is saying the delays are not due to pilots protesting... so I guess that should settle the issue, at least for more rational people. ;)

Still, we DO have a very tight labor market... American's are quitting their jobs at record numbers for various reasons. I think the pandemic has opened some people's eyes a bit more as to what's more important in life? With our government's failed attempt at raising minimum wage, it's nice to see market forces are driving up wages without the need to beg senators like Manchin for living wages. Companies should also not complain too much because market is dictating these raises, not the government...

In this day and age, I guess the just-in-time way of supplying stuffs just wont work right now? Similarly, perhaps we are not as automated as we think we are? When things work too smoothly, I guess it's easy to take essential workers for granted.

[FaultyMario]

This should end any debates about 'The body is a political battleground'.

Also it makes evidently clear that Montana >>>> Michigan.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBnf4taWQAcNUDG.jpg

[Jason]

That cracks me up every time I see it, but also important to note, its fake/satire: https://twitter.com/SortaBad/status/1448424684765151232?s=20

[FaultyMario]

WV does have a Kevin James kink, though.

I have no proof but I don't need it.

[Tom Servo]

Washington Post article on "The Great Resignation": https://wapo.st/3aBkIRF

It jibes at least partially with what I'm hearing anecdotally - a lot of people who a year ago were "essential workers" not being treated like they're essential. I'm also interested to see if vaccine mandates from some companies might have the opposite effect of what's feared, United said they received over 20,000 applications for 2,000 open spots after announcing they were going to mandate vaccinations. It would follow what I've heard from some friends in New York - the bars got more crowded after they started requiring vaccines because now people felt safer going to them.

I just saw that United Airlines say that of their >67,000 employees, 232 have refused to get vaccinated and are undergoing "the termination process," so it sounds like United at least will weather that.

[Phil_SS]

WV does have a Kevin James kink, though.

I have no proof but I don't need it.

That's not WV......

[Crazed_Insanity]

Washington Post article on "The Great Resignation": https://wapo.st/3aBkIRF

It jibes at least partially with what I'm hearing anecdotally - a lot of people who a year ago were "essential workers" not being treated like they're essential. I'm also interested to see if vaccine mandates from some companies might have the opposite effect of what's feared, United said they received over 20,000 applications for 2,000 open spots after announcing they were going to mandate vaccinations. It would follow what I've heard from some friends in New York - the bars got more crowded after they started requiring vaccines because now people felt safer going to them.

I just saw that United Airlines say that of their >67,000 employees, 232 have refused to get vaccinated and are undergoing "the termination process," so it sounds like United at least will weather that.

I like the sound of that.

However, it is still quite annoying to keep on hearing different stories with each side bolstering it’s case…

I guess only time will tell which side is really true. I still don’t really trust these big companies, media and government nor do I trust those irrational folks and their media… so yeah, will just have to be patient and let time work it’s magic. ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

That cracks me up every time I see it, but also important to note, its fake/satire: https://twitter.com/SortaBad/status/1448424684765151232?s=20

That map sure look real enough! :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

BTW, what do you guys think about canceling Dave Chappelle?

[Tom Servo]

Assuming you mean "should we cancel him?", I haven't seen the special yet, but given what I've heard I'm not exactly raring to. I've liked him a lot in the past, but I feel like he might be hitting that spot that a lot of comedians hit where they just turn into old cranks. They don't all do this, but it's definitely a phenomenon. Jerry Seinfeld, Louis CK, etc. They get to this point where it seems like the goal just appears to be pushing the boundaries, which is admirable, but then they get so fucking whiny when there's pushback. I was just reading about a screening of a documentary about the work he did to keep a small town comedy club going during the pandemic, and then spent his speaking time whinging about cancel culture while he's literally raking in millions of dollars from Netflix for his latest special.

If by not wanting to watch his special based on what I know about it is canceling, then I guess I'm for it? I'd rather remember him as funny and not an asshole for no reason. If cancel means that I think Netflix should take it down, then no, I'm not in favor of it.

(Oh, for the people who have him on ignore, the question was what we think about canceling Dave Chappelle)

[Crazed_Insanity]

I like chappelle and have watched him regularly, more so than most other comedians I think… I really don’t think he has changed that much over the years…, but I do believe society has changed.

I also don’t think he really cares if he’s canceled or not, just like I don’t really care if I’m ignored by some. :p Like you said, he does have plenty of money. Anyway, doesn’t look like Netflix is bowing to the pressure though, but we’ll see.

[Tom Servo]

The guy who is likely Q (or at least Q once it moved to 8kun) has announced his candidacy for Congress in AZ district 1 with a hilariously awful speech.

https://twitter.com/PokerPolitics/status/1448805527870443531

So there ya go. Now it's not just Q-following idiots, but now the guy who was probably Q for the past couple of years. Great.

[FaultyMario]

a hilariously awful speech.

WTF was that?

That's not hilarious, it's sad that people would vote for that loser.

[Yw-slayer]

Billi will be cheering this guy on as it is his favourite government and system and country!!!!

[Crazed_Insanity]

I would cheer for God any time, but I don’t like Q though. As God-like as he may be…, if Capt. Picard doesn’t like him, I’m not gonna like him. :p

If God is with me on this, I would’ve just run for president and take back the WH! Why waste time in congress?

[neanderthal]

Assuming you mean "should we cancel him?", I haven't seen the special yet, but given what I've heard I'm not exactly raring to. I've liked him a lot in the past, but I feel like he might be hitting that spot that a lot of comedians hit where they just turn into old cranks. They don't all do this, but it's definitely a phenomenon. Jerry Seinfeld, Louis CK, etc. They get to this point where it seems like the goal just appears to be pushing the boundaries, which is admirable, but then they get so fucking whiny when there's pushback. I was just reading about a screening of a documentary about the work he did to keep a small town comedy club going during the pandemic, and then spent his speaking time whinging about cancel culture while he's literally raking in millions of dollars from Netflix for his latest special.

If by not wanting to watch his special based on what I know about it is canceling, then I guess I'm for it? I'd rather remember him as funny and not an asshole for no reason. If cancel means that I think Netflix should take it down, then no, I'm not in favor of it.

(Oh, for the people who have him on ignore, the question was what we think about canceling Dave Chappelle)

He's gone from being a punch line comedian to being ... the best storyteller of our time?

I agree that there's a line that gets crossed by some comedians when they start pushing boundaries. I haven't seen it so I can't comment on it, or his being cancelled.

However, I also think there is a place to tell jokes about anybody and everybody (some has to be the butt of the joke,) without being <pauses, thinks hard> malicious and cruel. I'm notsure what words go there.

I'll probably watch it tonight or something.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Dude punches everyone, including the Chinese!!! However, you should know that he’s not malicious. I watched that latest episode or show... Let’s see if we could at least agree on Dave. :p

[Tom Servo]

I have a problem with punching down, which it seems like he's doing. It's obviously a different situation than Louis CK, 'cause that guy was coercing women into watching him jack off, but his "return" to comedy has basically just been punching down. In the olden days I really liked CK's comedy, now I think it's just hacky. I am having a bit of that with Chappelle too.

I might watch it just to see for myself, but so far a lot of people whose taste I trust and were big fans of Dave's have all had about the same reaction, which makes me not want to see it. Conversely, a lot of people I think are assholes loved the special, so that's not helping it either.

[neanderthal]

I have a problem with punching down, which it seems like he's doing. It's obviously a different situation than Louis CK, 'cause that guy was coercing women into watching him jack off, but his "return" to comedy has basically just been punching down. In the olden days I really liked CK's comedy, now I think it's just hacky. I am having a bit of that with Chappelle too.

I might watch it just to see for myself, but so far a lot of people whose taste I trust and were big fans of Dave's have all had about the same reaction, which makes me not want to see it. Conversely, a lot of people I think are assholes loved the special, so that's not helping it either.

I think that says it perfectly.

I'll have to watch it myself with a very jaundiced eye. I'm a huge fan of DC. Seen him several times. Was tempted to drive to Austin and buy a $1000 table to catch a show during the height of covid (tickets were only $250 each, 4 to a table, and I was willing to buy a whole table just for me. The timing never worked out, and then when I was ready to pull the trigger he was on with Joe Rogan. Fuck Joe Rogan!!!)

[Tom Servo]

WTF was that?

That's not hilarious, it's sad that people would vote for that loser.

Well, the jury's out on whether any but the hardcore Q faithful would vote for him. None of them will believe that he was Q (and in fairness, he likely has only been Q since they moved from 8chan to 8kun), but they will believe that he is at least in contact with whoever Q is supposed to be. Otherwise, as someone mentioned, he's a black hole of charisma who never put any points into that stat.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I have a problem with punching down, which it seems like he's doing. It's obviously a different situation than Louis CK, 'cause that guy was coercing women into watching him jack off, but his "return" to comedy has basically just been punching down. In the olden days I really liked CK's comedy, now I think it's just hacky. I am having a bit of that with Chappelle too.

I might watch it just to see for myself, but so far a lot of people whose taste I trust and were big fans of Dave's have all had about the same reaction, which makes me not want to see it. Conversely, a lot of people I think are assholes loved the special, so that's not helping it either.

How do you define punching down in Dave's case? What IS punching down? He talked about that in his show too.

Like I said, our culture has changed, more so than Dave IMHO. We rely more on the friends within our safety bubble and become quick to reject assholes in the other bubble...

For me personally, I think I'm very used to being a transient in various bubbles. Never really felt at home anywhere until I found the Jesus bubble! :p Seriously... even before all this political polarization in the US... I've always feel like an outsider and getting pretty used to it. My parents were born in China... so to the Taiwanese, I'm considered an outsider, not really Taiwanese, although I was born there. Now in America, am I really American? Not really. Now, does people like YW think I'm really Chinese? Unlikely. Anyway, point is I've learned to care less about what other people think. It's my life, not other people's.

I'm just curious to know what YOU think about Dave Chappelle. If you never liked him to begin with, sure, don't waste time watching his specials. However, if you really think he has changed for the worse, I'd like to know your reasons why.

There are definitely more crazies on the right, but since we don't have much right wingers here... can't really talk to them about those things. Cancel culture is good for people like Harvey Weinstein, but I really think it's getting a bit crazy out of control... on the left side...

[FaultyMario]

That's not WV......

Didn't I say I didn't need any proof?

:P

It's a weird map, I think it's missing a couple of states.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Washington Post article on "The Great Resignation": https://wapo.st/3aBkIRF

It jibes at least partially with what I'm hearing anecdotally - a lot of people who a year ago were "essential workers" not being treated like they're essential. I'm also interested to see if vaccine mandates from some companies might have the opposite effect of what's feared, United said they received over 20,000 applications for 2,000 open spots after announcing they were going to mandate vaccinations. It would follow what I've heard from some friends in New York - the bars got more crowded after they started requiring vaccines because now people felt safer going to them.

I just saw that United Airlines say that of their >67,000 employees, 232 have refused to get vaccinated and are undergoing "the termination process," so it sounds like United at least will weather that.

Here's an article that addressed the 'unvaccinated' more directly:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/unvaccinated-may-not-think-120724338.html

I'm still not so sure if Biden's mandate will work or might cause another greater resignation, but I totally agree with this author's approach to get more Americans vaccinated.

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FByKizZUcAkM4z1.jpg

[FaultyMario]

is this the week when pompous idiots try to convince others of how smart they aren't?


https://youtu.be/OczUI8XJYqA

[mk]

Any idea why FCC board is still one short?

[neanderthal]

I read a tweet that said "an entire generation is growing up thinking that being contrarian is the same as being intellectual" and I said to myself "I recognize him!!! I know that dude."

[Tom Servo]

lulz

[Tom Servo]

Any idea why FCC board is still one short?

AT&T still hasn't nominated an OANN anchor?

[Yw-slayer]

https://palladiummag.com/2021/10/11/the-triumph-and-terror-of-wang-huning/

This is an interesting article, particularly as it seems to go beyond the usual Duplo-level playground polemics that seem to reflect the attitude of some segments of the media and society.

[Tom Servo]

I'm reading it, and one thing is standing out - it starts by talking about the "disappearing" of Zhao Wei, then ends by saying that everything the article documents explains it. I do not follow that line of thinking, any insight there? I understand (not necessarily agree, but understand) the line of thinking to some of the other conclusions, but I don't get that one at all.

Otherwise, Wang Huning sounds a lot like China's Stephen Miller.

[Yw-slayer]

I think it is suggesting that the "disappearance" is in line with the underlying philosophies explained in the article, which discourage misbehaviour.

[Tom Servo]

Oh yeah, I was able to infer that, but if you're not familiar with Zhao Wei there's a ton of context missing.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Interesting read for sure. Had no clue who Wang is before, now I guess I’m getting a better understanding of the CCP…

Wang seemed like a brilliant man. Very astute observations. I totally agree with his observations of the west, particularly America. Americans today are rejecting their cultural inheritance… namely Jesus Christ. The rot has begun, and it’s infectious… China is rotting too.

So what’s CCPs way of preventing the rot? To play God themselves!

For such a brilliant man, he should realize that’s just not going to work!

I think the article is trying to justify erasing actresses like Zhao or billionaires like jack ma or war on drugs and video games… because it’s good for the country. This is their way of stopping the American virus.

I definitely agree america is sick and has infected the world with something far worse than Covid, however, I just don’t believe CCPs solution will work.

[mk]

AT&T still hasn't nominated an OANN anchor?

These far right things are a chunk off of my reality.
Like sort of a fictive nuance in fictive appalachian weed society.

[Yw-slayer]

Oh yeah, I was able to infer that, but if you're not familiar with Zhao Wei there's a ton of context missing.

Yeah, well, I can't say that I am familiar with her so I'm not sure I can help you out with any missing detail.

[Tom Servo]

Since it's been a bit of a topic of conversation in here, this NY Times op-ed about Chappelle's latest seems on topic: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/15/arts/television/dave-chappelle-netflix.html?referringSource=articleShare

[Rare White Ape]

Can you please copy/paste that?

I don’t want to have to give them my email address.

[Tom Servo]

I'm still hesitant to just copy and paste something on the board, I don't really want lawyers to show up here. I think this link *should* work even if you don't have a subscription:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/15/arts/television/dave-chappelle-netflix.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ACEIPuonUktbfqohlSFUaBibcR8Q86QGLgfXRwac9gXm5ICGLR HNJz-0NG4WE_0qIY6d_ad8yz3KbWNpFevcJdcBF89V-bQZrWhX65dyNgogEKCE47onoAz0908jHGL00_WSvM2PlcKJ2lb Ox-krbaDXgXvbehncidh134scwLSHc0nIDwazOE-R1y4M-ia9nXsYmMG9GMCqavPDoCwF9OcGFaHzc6Qo3XuJZWlLDjILWqu JAIEgJVwWwHD4o6n086dhfJNsVIKz8ShUgc8D4ir4RYXd6N3TE DZq3R6kKzQZ-U2mSIA&smid=url-share

[FaultyMario]

Thanks, Gotye!

[George]

Re: RWA & Servo's last posts. Try this site: https://12ft.io/ to get around paywalls.

I found it on Digg.com, not on the dark web or in a back alley.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Re: RWA & Servo's last posts. Try this site: https://12ft.io/ to get around paywalls.

I found it on Digg.com, not on the dark web or in a back alley.

Hey, this did not work for that NY times article… Or perhaps I did something wrong?

Anyway, thanks to Swervo’s updated link, I was able to read it.

You know, Neanderthal has always grilled me about some ability for introspection, but apparently the left doesn’t need that. It’s all about Chapelle the GOAT on the decline, doesn’t have any original to talk about so he rehashes these old offensive topics…these upcoming or old comedians must be pivoting right or anti left… :rolleyes:

As if absolutely nobody punched back at Dave and it’s all Dave solo performances of punching down…

IMHO, comedians have been the ones able to see the madness of our crazy world. It’s not always the right that are crazy. Surely the right has provided way more comedic contents than the left, but I really think the left has became way too proud and too sensitive.

[Rare White Ape]

I'm still hesitant to just copy and paste something on the board, I don't really want lawyers to show up here. I think this link *should* work even if you don't have a subscription:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/15/arts/television/dave-chappelle-netflix.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ACEIPuonUktbfqohlSFUaBibcR8Q86QGLgfXRwac9gXm5ICGLR HNJz-0NG4WE_0qIY6d_ad8yz3KbWNpFevcJdcBF89V-bQZrWhX65dyNgogEKCE47onoAz0908jHGL00_WSvM2PlcKJ2lb Ox-krbaDXgXvbehncidh134scwLSHc0nIDwazOE-R1y4M-ia9nXsYmMG9GMCqavPDoCwF9OcGFaHzc6Qo3XuJZWlLDjILWqu JAIEgJVwWwHD4o6n086dhfJNsVIKz8ShUgc8D4ir4RYXd6N3TE DZq3R6kKzQZ-U2mSIA&smid=url-share

Thanks for posting the article. It hits the nail.

[FaultyMario]

Colin Powell dead due to complications from Covid.

Mr. Powell was the first African American to hold a press conference to lie about WMDs in Iraq.

[Crazed_Insanity]

My impression was that he didn't deliberately lied, but was kinda tricked/forced into it one way or another... was there really an intelligence failure or did he simple go with the lies? I don't really know. He should've been bolder about his opposition for Iraq war and just resigned before the war... that could've changed history. However, he's just not the quitting/resigning type. Anyway, the dude ended up endorsing Barack Obama later... Of all of the W's cabinet members, he's the only guy I still kinda respect. His actions maybe too little too late, but at least I sense some regret/remorse later?

Too bad vaccination did not work for him.

[FaultyMario]

They are the defenders of privilege.

Everybody involved knew it was a fucking fabrication, for fuck's sake!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Sure, we could assume that, but we don't really know that... because we're really not that privileged and we weren't involved.

Anyway, no point debating or arguing about stuffs that I don't really know... what really sucks now is that this will give antivaxxers more ammunition to not vaccinate... See, vaccines don't work. Colin Powell's dead anyways... sigh... At least they can see it's not a hoax. However I suppose hoaxsters will continue to believe in the hoax regardless of how many dead...